Colleen Reaches Enlightenment

November 2, 2021

Lots of exciting updates from Founder's Summit, and Aaron reports back on the first Laravel client.
Learn more →

Transcript

Aaron
00:00:01 – 00:00:16
K. 1st, point of order is new recording day. We're no longer gonna do Fridays. So if you missed if y'all were checking Friday for your feed and you didn't see one, we'll probably do these on Tuesday or Thursday now. It's just easier for everyone.
Aaron
00:00:16 – 00:00:48
So we're back. I think Colleen is gonna tell us about founders' comp later, but we first are gonna talk about some of the stuff I've been doing, implementing, refine for Laravel with Keith. So yeah. Okay. So I've been working with our Internet friend, Keith, to implement refine in his app, which is SegMetrix.
Aaron
00:00:49 – 00:00:57
He I don't have y'all seen have either of you seen I know Sean I think you have. Colleen, have you seen SegMetrics, the inside of it? Okay.
Colleen
00:00:57 – 00:00:58
No. I have not.
Aaron
00:00:59 – 00:01:33
He has a really good, front end query builder, already, and the back end is modeled off of refine because he was our very first customer. Like, 2 years ago, he bought access to it. And so he took it and then kind of has morphed it over time. And he's now in this situation where it's really hard to maintain, and it's really hard to extend and add new stuff. And so he reached out and was like, hey.
Aaron
00:01:33 – 00:02:04
Can you just do this for me? His use case is very interesting because one of the things that he does is so, like, let's say the models are contacts and purchases. One of the things that he does is he wants to filter on contacts who have purchased, you know, a certain thing. Right? So he wants to filter on contacts who have purchased a red hat.
Colleen
00:02:04 – 00:02:05
Right.
Aaron
00:02:05 – 00:02:09
But then, like, that's totally fine. We can do that. Right.
Colleen
00:02:09 – 00:02:09
Right.
Aaron
00:02:09 – 00:02:30
But then he's got this requirement where the purchases are then joined in to the resulting dataset. So not only do you get the contacts that have purchased a red hat, but you get all of the red hat purchases joined into that contact dataset.
Colleen
00:02:30 – 00:02:31
Got it.
Aaron
00:02:32 – 00:02:46
Because then he wants to show his customers, okay, here are all the contexts that have purchased the red hat. And here's like the, you know, the revenue value of all of those specific purchases.
Colleen
00:02:47 – 00:02:47
Okay.
Aaron
00:02:47 – 00:02:48
Does that make sense?
Colleen
00:02:50 – 00:02:50
Yes.
Aaron
00:02:52 – 00:02:53
Kind of.
Sean
00:02:53 – 00:02:54
Yes. It makes perfect sense.
Colleen
00:02:54 – 00:02:55
Yes.
Aaron
00:02:55 – 00:02:57
Okay. Go ahead. Yes. Okay. Mhmm.
Aaron
00:02:57 – 00:03:02
So we don't do that out of the box. Right?
Colleen
00:03:02 – 00:03:02
Right.
Aaron
00:03:02 – 00:03:18
Our whole deal is we will let you filter down to everything that you need, including filtering on related models, but we don't then join in those related models
Colleen
00:03:18 – 00:03:19
Right.
Aaron
00:03:19 – 00:03:21
As filtered datasets.
Colleen
00:03:22 – 00:03:23
Mhmm.
Aaron
00:03:23 – 00:03:39
So it's been interesting to try to figure out, like, because obviously, you can see that he would want that filtering to happen on the related models as well, so that you only are filled. You're only joining in this filtered stuff.
Colleen
00:03:39 – 00:03:39
Right.
Aaron
00:03:39 – 00:03:55
And it's been interesting to see how to make like, how to get refine to work that way. I did a first pass that while it's looping through the whole relationship, recursive cycle
Colleen
00:03:56 – 00:03:56
Yep.
Aaron
00:03:56 – 00:04:27
It it tacks on filters to an independent relationship query that you can then join in if you want. And that worked well enough, but I think we're gonna end up in a different spot because he has this other requirement. So this is really good because, you know, we've been implementing in a clean room for a long time. And now it's like, how do we integrate this into a real app? And it's a lot different.
Aaron
00:04:27 – 00:04:48
Yeah. And I think this is maybe one of the more complex use cases, but he's got this other requirement where so he wants the context that have purchased a red hat. And let's say, god, this is so technical. Let's say he wants context that were created in the year 2021
Colleen
00:04:49 – 00:04:49
Okay.
Aaron
00:04:49 – 00:04:58
And have purchased a Red Hat. Right? So that's one kind of filter against the contact model and one against, like, the purchases.
Colleen
00:04:59 – 00:05:00
Right.
Aaron
00:05:00 – 00:05:18
When he returns that to his end users, he kind of splits it up and says, here are all the contacts that have been created in 2021, and we call those leads. And of those leads, here are the ones that have made purchases, and we call those customers.
Colleen
00:05:18 – 00:05:19
Right.
Aaron
00:05:19 – 00:05:43
Because he needs to, he needs to calculate a conversion rate because that's his whole, that's his whole deal. Right? Is the whole conversion rate thing. So now we're in a situation where we have to apply these filters separately because all the contact stuff needs to be filtered first to get the leads, and then all the purchases stuff needs to be filtered to get the purchases and to figure out which of the leads are customers.
Colleen
00:05:45 – 00:05:50
Why is that not just 2 independent line items for from a refined perspective?
Aaron
00:05:50 – 00:05:52
Why is that not 2 independent line items?
Sean
00:05:52 – 00:06:08
Great. I guess what I'm hearing is it's the the refinements need to be applied separately, not just to the original filter, but you need to be able to give people the refinements that customers build to run on whatever they want. That's fine.
Aaron
00:06:09 – 00:06:29
Yeah. Yeah. Basically. So, yes, fundamentally, that is exactly what is needed, is that the developer in these really advanced use cases, the developer can kind of hook into our loop and apply things separately if needed. Yeah.
Aaron
00:06:29 – 00:06:48
So, Colleen, the reason it's not 2, separate line items is because if he's filtering against contacts, which he is, and he says contacts created in 2021 Mhmm. And contacts that have purchased a red hat.
Colleen
00:06:49 – 00:06:51
Right. That's one.
Aaron
00:06:52 – 00:06:58
That's that is the, what he calls the customer results set.
Colleen
00:06:58 – 00:07:00
Right. Cause they've purchased something. Okay.
Aaron
00:07:01 – 00:07:12
But the broader results set that he wants back is to drop the purchase filter altogether and only apply the contact filter and say, just show me contacts that are created in 2021.
Colleen
00:07:14 – 00:07:16
Right. Not customers.
Aaron
00:07:16 – 00:07:17
Not customers.
Colleen
00:07:18 – 00:07:18
Got it. Okay.
Aaron
00:07:18 – 00:07:31
And so he's got this weird, it's not weird. It's just different. He's got this different setup where all in a single filter, he's basically running multiple filters. And so
Sean
00:07:32 – 00:07:44
Sounds like we just need to have a better sorry. We just we need to have a better wrapper. Like, a better API for developers to interact with our blueprint. Like, it's not just a data blob anymore.
Colleen
00:07:44 – 00:07:44
We need to be like,
Sean
00:07:45 – 00:07:58
here's your blueprint class. You can get the refinements. You can get the initial query. You can get whatever. And so then you could pull off the purchases refinement, apply it to individual customers that way you could develop, you know, build that view yourself.
Sean
00:07:58 – 00:08:11
Like, pass it off to them for this complicated use case, and so that they could put it in their own application logic. Another way to do that would be a better API around our blueprint. That's what it sounds like. I mean, it's one way.
Aaron
00:08:11 – 00:08:27
Yeah. That's that's possible. I think the problem with that is the blueprint, the blueprint is pretty early in the life cycle in terms of, like, applying and creating a a filter or a query, I guess.
Sean
00:08:27 – 00:08:27
Yeah.
Aaron
00:08:27 – 00:09:03
And we need to give them hooks into, like, the loop, like, the main loop that processes everything. But I think we found so I think we found that I was we were both thinking we were on a call the other day for, like, 4 hours, and I think, fundamentally, we were thinking about his model incorrectly because I was trying to get it all down into one contact filter, when in reality, it is a contact filter and then multiple purchase filters.
Sean
00:09:03 – 00:09:05
Yep. That's it.
Aaron
00:09:05 – 00:09:52
And that's doable if you live outside of refine query builder, which he is. He's got like a report class. So he's got a report class that handles a bunch of, like, calculations and stuff and handles, like, passing stuff into his current filter setup. And so I think what's gonna happen is he's going to intercept the data from the front end and break it out into a contact filter, and then in many purchase filters based on whatever the user did. And then that way we can get the SQL set up just right, so that we can get, we can get leads, we can get customers, we can get filtered purchases to left join into those.
Aaron
00:09:52 – 00:10:12
So then on his front end, he can show everything. And so I think the whole the the paradigm shift was I was trying to squeeze it into a single filter, When in reality, it works just fine with multiple filters. You just have to stitch them together at the top. Does any of that make sense?
Sean
00:10:12 – 00:10:28
Makes perfect sense. And then also if you solve it in the way where you're breaking things out into pieces, which you can reuse, then this also so, like, what I think is that Keith is most likely an example of what will be for us an integration contract.
Aaron
00:10:28 – 00:10:29
Mhmm. Agreed.
Sean
00:10:29 – 00:10:36
And so we build tools to make it easy for us to do this for them. You know? I mean, hey. It's in the docs. Here's the API.
Sean
00:10:36 – 00:10:43
But, really, you're probably gonna hire us and we're just gonna do it, and then we make it easy for ourselves to do it. So it sounds sounds awesome.
Aaron
00:10:44 – 00:11:01
Yeah. It's been a lot of fun, actually. And fun in a way that's like, okay. I know like, I know all the fundamental building blocks, like, in in my bones because I wrote them all. But now it's like, wait.
Aaron
00:11:01 – 00:11:04
How do I use these 2 by fours to build that house?
Sean
00:11:04 – 00:11:05
It's like,
Aaron
00:11:05 – 00:11:08
oh, I could do it this way. It's a lot of fun.
Sean
00:11:10 – 00:11:26
Yeah. Making these things more composable just as like a super high level abstract thing to say here, I know. But, like, in general, making all these things composable seems to be a pattern that we're seeing that would be useful for us. It's happening over at client as well. I will set it.
Aaron
00:11:28 – 00:11:29
Yeah. Big time.
Colleen
00:11:29 – 00:11:33
So you did 2 days of work for him, Aaron, and how did you leave it?
Aaron
00:11:34 – 00:11:47
I haven't left it yet. So I did I took those 2 days off last week. I took 2 days off last week, and then I worked Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night ish.
Colleen
00:11:47 – 00:11:47
Okay.
Aaron
00:11:47 – 00:12:19
And then Friday or Wednesday, Thursday night. And then Fridays, we're currently on half day Fridays, and so that's when Keith and I were on the phone for 4 hours. And so now that and that's when we had that that paradigm shift. So now that I've got that, I've got maybe a few more hours to like clean it up and show him how I would do the first one. And then he is going to kind of take it over from there and integrate it more deeply into SegMetrix.
Aaron
00:12:20 – 00:12:50
Got it. So he's gonna kinda take the front end and write his translation or a translation layer that then feeds into refine. And I told him, like, man, I can I can try to make your current stuff work, because he's running into some very specific issues? I said, I can try to make your current stuff work, or I can try to get refine in here. And he was like, I just want what if you want to rip everything out and replace it, that's fine.
Aaron
00:12:50 – 00:13:07
I just can't keep working with this. And I was like, great. Because he's got tests that are, like, fundamental building block tests that are like, when somebody puts in not know, make sure that we do the query. Right. And it's like, Oh, like we handle all of that.
Aaron
00:13:07 – 00:13:13
Yeah. And so I think we're going to be able to just rip it out and then let him write a translation layer in the middle.
Colleen
00:13:14 – 00:13:15
So, okay, great.
Aaron
00:13:16 – 00:13:19
Yeah. It's real good. Yeah. Good about it. Awesome.
Aaron
00:13:21 – 00:13:30
Yeah. So that's all I think of interest that I've been working on. Calling
Sean
00:13:31 – 00:13:32
I'll do my update first because
Aaron
00:13:32 – 00:13:33
Okay. Please.
Sean
00:13:33 – 00:13:36
Because I don't because there's almost nothing. I am almost done with refinements. That's my update.
Colleen
00:13:37 – 00:13:38
Oh. That's exciting.
Aaron
00:13:38 – 00:13:40
Small but mighty update. Nice.
Sean
00:13:40 – 00:13:48
Yes. It's very close. Yeah. So I won't get into the technical weeds because it's not worth it, but yeah. Almost almost there.
Sean
00:13:48 – 00:13:50
So that's my that's my update on that.
Aaron
00:13:50 – 00:13:51
Love it.
Colleen
00:13:51 – 00:13:51
Awesome.
Aaron
00:13:53 – 00:14:03
Okay. Speaking of paradigm shifts and and awakenings, Colleen, you went to you went to founder summit, and it sounds like you're a new person.
Colleen
00:14:03 – 00:14:04
Yeah. Sounds like Colleen.
Aaron
00:14:05 – 00:14:06
So I like to
Colleen
00:14:06 – 00:14:07
drink that Kool Aid.
Aaron
00:14:07 – 00:14:10
Yeah. Who who is the new Colleen? Tell us.
Colleen
00:14:10 – 00:14:27
So I went to Founders Summit last week with Michelle all week. It was a wonderful conference. Everything was really well done. The it was kind of it wasn't really an unconference, but it was kind of an unconference. I think the group was really small.
Colleen
00:14:27 – 00:15:33
They capped it at a 150 people. And what was really neat about that is over the course of almost 4 days, you would run into the same people over and over and over. So I had a lot of talks with people, and there were people there in all stage of their And I just feel like, to me, it's, it kind of opened my eyes to some of the opportunities that are available out there. And the 1st day, we had a couple executive coaches speak, and, like, I generally hate executive like, that whole world because when I worked at a Fortune 500 company, we always had to take these BS, like, engagement surveys, and they were always really stupid and no one did anything with them. So I I went into those sessions with, like, really low expectations, and I found that I got a tremendous amount of value out of those sessions.
Colleen
00:15:33 – 00:15:57
And those sessions were really focused on I mean, it was the group was maybe 50 people. So it was really small. It was really intimate. And the setting was thus that everyone a lot of people spoke and participated, but I really got a lot out of those. We talked a lot about what's holding you back, fears, mission statements, values, all those kinds of things that people are into.
Colleen
00:15:57 – 00:16:08
And I thought they were great. And I came away from that with maybe a different perspective on what I think we should do and our path forward.
Aaron
00:16:08 – 00:16:10
Okay. Well, don't bury the lead.
Colleen
00:16:10 – 00:16:30
Right? I know. So many words. I just think that we're in a great place. We have a really interesting opportunity here, and we have this I have in my head this negative, negative idea about raising money, but I kind of feel differently about that.
Colleen
00:16:30 – 00:16:42
And I think that's something we should explore sooner rather than later. Not, like, next month, but maybe in, like, 6 months once the client contract is over. And then if we raise money, Aaron, you and I could both do this full time for a year.
Sean
00:16:42 – 00:16:52
Yeah. I thought about that a while ago. It's like and when Aaron was talking about, you know, burnout and stuff, that that was definitely a path.
Colleen
00:16:52 – 00:16:57
It feels like the I mean okay. So this was technically a marketing event for them. Let's just keep that in mind.
Aaron
00:16:57 – 00:16:58
And it and it worked, clearly.
Colleen
00:16:58 – 00:17:07
Clearly worked. But I I don't know. It kinda just changed my whole perspective. So they get this guy up there who's this executive coach. There were 2 executive coaches.
Colleen
00:17:07 – 00:17:23
I love them both. This guy is like ex Israeli special forces. He's, like, giving this super, like, inspirational, ridiculous talk about, like, the fears that are holding you back, which I'm not gonna remember, but I think it was I don't remember. I have to look it up. But they were good.
Colleen
00:17:23 – 00:17:31
It was, like, stuff like, yeah. Yeah. Totally. And so many entrepreneurs are just in their own way. Right?
Colleen
00:17:31 – 00:17:45
Like, we're just in our own way and and it just feels like there's so much opportunity. And if we really wanna go after it, we should go after it. And I think we are well positioned, well timed to do something like that. So yeah.
Sean
00:17:45 – 00:17:46
I disagree.
Colleen
00:17:46 – 00:17:46
Okay.
Sean
00:17:46 – 00:17:48
With the well positioned and well timed.
Colleen
00:17:49 – 00:17:51
I'm thinking, like, 6 months. Once the
Sean
00:17:51 – 00:17:57
I'm thinking time. Like, the time is irrelevant. That what's relevant would be where we're at with license revenue by then.
Colleen
00:17:58 – 00:17:59
That's fair. Okay.
Sean
00:18:00 – 00:18:03
Because I don't wanna go into it with no momentum
Colleen
00:18:04 – 00:18:04
Yeah.
Sean
00:18:04 – 00:18:08
And no like, basically, no license revenue. So
Colleen
00:18:08 – 00:18:09
I get that.
Sean
00:18:09 – 00:18:42
So if we, you know, hit the ground running here, and we figure out how we're gonna have a lot of momentum, and no. Sorry. That when we come away with momentum, then we have more leverage in the conversations that we have about funding. But in general, like like our hypothesis, at least mine, I always am just saying my hypothesis and I my hypothesis, which I I believe we mostly share is really in line with, like, the calm what do they call them now?
Colleen
00:18:42 – 00:18:43
Calm company.
Sean
00:18:43 – 00:18:45
It's really in line with their hypothesis.
Colleen
00:18:45 – 00:18:46
Yeah.
Sean
00:18:46 – 00:19:15
So I really think that and we have connections there. To me, that's something to work on look into. The my other hesitation about it is it regardless, it will be a distraction for us. Like, because we're gonna have to at least, like, bone up on terms and understanding, like, what we're actually signing up for, because I don't understand any of that stuff. And I know that there are fundamental differences between, like, tiny seed and column company, and some of one of them might be better than the other.
Sean
00:19:15 – 00:19:34
And all that means is that's a distraction for us, which is worth it if it's like, okay. We can get good terms. We have momentum. It's not terrifying for, you know, Aaron to to quit his job at that point, and there's enough money for him to, you know, cover health insurance and all of that. And, like, you know what I mean?
Sean
00:19:34 – 00:19:38
Like, then we can do the pain, but I don't think it's worth
Colleen
00:19:38 – 00:19:51
it yet. Right. I totally agree. So why I wanna bring this up is because I think it is now November. We so I envision this is something we we start getting serious about next summer, and so we need to set ourselves up.
Colleen
00:19:51 – 00:20:06
I totally agree, Sean. Like, we should set ourselves up in the next 6 to 8 months. I think we should set ourselves up to keep that opportunity open. And you're absolutely right. Like, we need to if you wanna do that, you have to come in from a position of power, right, negotiating.
Colleen
00:20:07 – 00:20:16
So we'd wanna be in a position where we have buzz, we have traction, we have revenue. But I think we have a lot of good ideas right now. We're like, oh, this would be really cool. We integrate with this. We should build this thing.
Colleen
00:20:16 – 00:20:27
We should build this thing. And I don't feel like we have a lot of focus, and we don't have a lot of time. So for example, we've got Torchlight. We got Unmarked Docs. We got Aaron, only one Aaron to do all these things.
Colleen
00:20:27 – 00:20:48
Right? And then we've got all these integration ideas, but none of us really have the time right now to do the software and do all these other things. So I think if we plot out an 8 month path to get us there, like, whatever we decide it looks like, like, we're gonna do this soft launch. We're gonna try and integrate with these guys. So next summer, when I'm done with a client, I mean, I'll be free.
Colleen
00:20:48 – 00:20:59
And then if we can raise some funding you're absolutely right. Like health insurance, there's all this stuff. But if we got some if we got some traction I just think we should be open to it, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
Sean
00:20:59 – 00:21:16
I I'm open to it, but I'm a little frustrated with you right now because, like, are you not listening to us? Like, we do have a plan for how we're focusing and how we're moving forward and, like, what we're all working on. Like, yes. We're talking about integrations, but 0 people are working on integrations. I'm full a 100% of my time on code.
Sean
00:21:16 – 00:21:33
Talking about we only have us to work on code. I'm talking with Matea, a guy on Twitter right now, that Aaron knows to hire and try to bring in to start helping us, like, cover that and to spend some of our money there. Like, we do have plans for all of these things, and I do think it's about on the schedule that you're saying.
Colleen
00:21:34 – 00:21:37
Okay. Great. I okay. I hear you. Yeah.
Colleen
00:21:37 – 00:21:48
I just, just in the Slack, I've noticed. I feel like some stuff, it's like, oh, we should integrate with these guys. We should integrate with these guys. And that stuff gets lost because we're not we're not keeping track of it anywhere from making it hard. Okay.
Sean
00:21:48 – 00:22:08
But, like, it's just like a because I think that one channel that I will pursue once I'm freed up from having to do as much coding as I am will be integrations, and then and maybe. Right? Because another thing about integrations is that requires more coding times. It depends on how much cash we have, etcetera. So we have to figure out what's our highest highest leverage long term channel.
Sean
00:22:08 – 00:22:26
First, our highest leverage channel is Aaron and all the social capital that he has, like, obviously. But yeah. So that's the plan is, like, the integrations are not something that we'll even necessarily work on, but it makes sense to keep an eye on all the spots that we could. That's all that's happening there.
Colleen
00:22:27 – 00:22:35
Okay. Yeah. That sounds great. I, I I mean, I think I I think we are on the path, and I just wanted to bring this up because we haven't seriously talked about it. But I think
Sean
00:22:36 – 00:22:40
But then, like, another option, another thing that could happen, which I think is not ridiculous
Colleen
00:22:41 – 00:22:41
Yeah.
Sean
00:22:41 – 00:22:46
Is an like, another client type contract or 2.
Colleen
00:22:46 – 00:22:49
Yeah. I think that's that's totally reasonable.
Sean
00:22:49 – 00:23:11
It's totally not out of the realm of possibility. And then to me, couple of those equals well, we don't need we know if the margins are right. Like, that contract doesn't have good enough margins. But, like, if we had better margins, then, I think that's a way forward without the funding to get us our goals, which would be to let Aaron go full time, if that's the goal with the funding.
Colleen
00:23:11 – 00:23:22
Yeah. There was, another thing about the funding. And, again, this is, like I don't think it's something we would do now. But Riley Chase, who I met there, he has host of Host of 5. Yeah.
Colleen
00:23:22 – 00:23:46
So he has a really good video on understanding at least Calm Company, like, how they fund and how you pay them back. And he basically said, like, minimum, you wanna do a $1,000,000 if you're gonna take money or else it's not worth it. And you probably wanna do a lot more than that, but it's a good video once we get more serious about it. If if like you said, Sean, if we find a good support contract or, integration contract, we don't need to do that. But yeah.
Colleen
00:23:46 – 00:23:54
I don't know. I just I'm, like, excited to go all in is basically what I'm trying to say. And I would like to help us do that.
Sean
00:23:55 – 00:23:57
Oh, hell yeah. Or it.
Aaron
00:23:57 – 00:24:07
Who? I don't think I don't think I'll speak for Sean a little bit. I don't think either of us have ever been super opposed to taking money. Not at all. Okay.
Aaron
00:24:07 – 00:24:08
I think
Colleen
00:24:08 – 00:24:10
I think 2 talked about it too much.
Aaron
00:24:10 – 00:24:19
Yeah. The 2 that we mentioned are obviously ideal tiny seed or or calm because they more aligned with our preconceived ethoses ethos. Right.
Sean
00:24:20 – 00:24:20
But,
Aaron
00:24:20 – 00:24:28
yeah, I if we can make it work, that's great. I love other people's money. That's that's awesome. Yeah. It may be interesting.
Aaron
00:24:31 – 00:24:57
Should that time we reach that 6 months, and we're ready to be selling and integrating rails, we could you know, I I just I don't know how much money we're talking, but we could raise the money and allow Colleen to stay full time without having to take on another client contract so that you can sell and do, you know, one off integrations in rails.
Colleen
00:24:57 – 00:25:06
Yeah. And, you know, there's interesting thing. So we did have a talk about how to sell things before you have them, which was kind of interesting. And speaking of rails
Sean
00:25:06 – 00:25:07
that, by the way.
Colleen
00:25:07 – 00:25:10
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Like, on the Laravel side, like, that's awesome.
Sean
00:25:11 – 00:25:14
And Oh, no. We did it on the rail side. Obviously Oh, yeah.
Aaron
00:25:14 – 00:25:15
It's true.
Colleen
00:25:15 – 00:25:26
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm just trying to move my mindset. I think my mindset has been so deep in client work and
Sean
00:25:27 – 00:25:27
Yeah. The
Colleen
00:25:28 – 00:25:40
even though it's our stuff, it feels like a normal consulting job. Mhmm. And it's so like, the the Hotwire stuff feels so tightly integrated with what they have, Sean. When I think about pulling that Hotwire stuff out, it makes me go, ugh.
Sean
00:25:40 – 00:25:41
It's not.
Aaron
00:25:41 – 00:25:41
Okay.
Sean
00:25:41 – 00:25:42
It's not.
Colleen
00:25:42 – 00:26:09
Because, like, the way we're doing the stable IDs and and all that, but I'm trying to change my mindset a little bit because I've been, like, the you know, really focused on that. And I so I'm basically trying to change the way I'm thinking about that to be more generic, if you will Yeah. As opposed to specific to because they want all these things. We could sell it right now. I mean, they want all these things that are that's fine.
Colleen
00:26:09 – 00:26:18
That's great. Like, kinda like Keith has that are very, very specific. But it's almost to the point where it's, you know, we could just sell it as is.
Sean
00:26:18 – 00:26:21
It's 100% where we could sell it as is.
Colleen
00:26:21 – 00:26:35
I I I think so. Like, I I think it's there. So that kinda got me excited about thinking about how to position it, you know, from a Rails perspective. I think we talked about Rails developers might be a little bit they're a little bit of a different market than less excited than the Laravel developers.
Sean
00:26:36 – 00:27:08
We could still probably do what we're doing on the Laravel side with a soft launch, because I think that's the right way to do it is to pick up a few people that are like, oh, yeah. I want to add that to my app, like, right now, and then and then do it, and then see how much work it is to gauge, like, how, like, to gauge what we need to do in order to make it, like, feasible for you to be working on licensed customers versus client customer Right. To make sure that we hit both. You know what I mean? And then there's also I don't know.
Sean
00:27:08 – 00:27:15
I don't know. They probably kill us because they specifically wanted you, but I'm always like, I don't understand why they needed it to be you. Like, why can't we sub it out?
Aaron
00:27:15 – 00:27:16
They'd kill us.
Sean
00:27:16 – 00:27:17
I know they would,
Colleen
00:27:17 – 00:27:26
but I really you know what? I really love working for them. Like, it's it's really been despite their pub yeah. I really enjoy working for them.
Aaron
00:27:27 – 00:27:45
Despite something un spoken. And I guess we'll never know what that thing was. Started with a p, but I don't know what it is. Is there a world in which we have a S a rails soft launch while you're still at client?
Colleen
00:27:45 – 00:27:51
I think there's opportunity there. So I've been thinking a lot about this. I mean, right? I'm all like, you know,
Aaron
00:27:51 – 00:27:54
you're amped and I love it. Super am. As if you're not normal.
Colleen
00:27:54 – 00:28:26
Because I'm not normal. But I really think for me, you know, and this gets into, like, some personal stuff, but I think that I you know, I'm waiting on them for stuff because they're not quite sure about some domain that literally don't have all their domain models quite sorted out yet. But I think I just need to kind of power through that, in a different way because I can still pretend I can just kinda guess, and that's what I've been doing is kind of guessing. Mhmm. And, but that
Sean
00:28:26 – 00:28:29
Can I can I throw a suggestion out here out there for this?
Colleen
00:28:29 – 00:28:29
Yeah.
Sean
00:28:29 – 00:28:37
So if you want to leverage the time that you're spending on the client, it's such a way that's beneficial to both them and us.
Colleen
00:28:37 – 00:28:39
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Yes.
Sean
00:28:39 – 00:28:47
Then, you know, it's this joke that we have of, like, where, you know, like, Andrew's doing work upstream on bullet train. But you know what? It's not really a joke. They value that
Colleen
00:28:47 – 00:28:47
Yeah.
Sean
00:28:47 – 00:29:16
And they want you to do that. It would they would there's no way like, if you were, like, looking at the filter building problem and then doing some work upstream on that before they even are asking about it, that is definitely what they want you to do. So that's not out of the scope of the contract or a problem or, like, there's there's no way. Because they want us to own that problem completely, and they want it to be, you know, I think if we were a successful business, that would be, like, their dream outcome. Yeah.
Sean
00:29:16 – 00:29:42
Because then, you know, they could, like, have a real contract service contract with us and or you know what I mean? Like Yep. So, yeah, I think that's that would be fine to, like, pull out work and do it upstream. I mean, I I don't think we could charge for work, you know, doing marketing work or whatever. But, like, but, like, the develop the development work, yeah, anything anything that we can do to work on the filter builder problem for them would be game, I think.
Colleen
00:29:42 – 00:29:49
Yeah. And so I think that sometimes work expands to fill the space allotted. You know?
Aaron
00:29:49 – 00:29:50
Parkinson's law.
Colleen
00:29:51 – 00:30:12
So, I'm gonna try and compress my space allotted. And, I just like to try to be a little more I think I'm pretty efficient, but I I think to what you said, Sean, like, I'm just gonna start working on those problems even if I can't solve them directly for the client. They are problems that I'm solving that will, you know, downstream impact the client once they get what they need in place. So
Sean
00:30:12 – 00:30:12
Yeah.
Colleen
00:30:12 – 00:30:25
That's kind of how I'm approaching it, and I'm hoping. So to your question, Aaron, I I'm not quite sure, but I think so. I mean, I really think that is that's a possibility.
Aaron
00:30:28 – 00:31:01
Is there, I we've I think we've been using upstream, like, theoretically, because we're still in the client's main app. We're not a gym ourselves. Right. I know that there are there are productivity losses with making it a gym, because then you have coordination issues. Is that I would imagine that's probably the first step of, like, getting to a rails soft launch is we have to pull it out into a gym.
Aaron
00:31:01 – 00:31:06
Is that something that would be valuable to the client or do they just want it all in there?
Colleen
00:31:07 – 00:31:26
I will ask our contact over there. I think that it's valuable, but I also think that the tricky problem I mean, you were talking about, you know, the filters you're doing with Keith. Our problem is a little bit different, like, the nested. They're basically refinements that are filters that they're trying to implement. So I wanna get that That's kind of their biggest technical risk right now.
Aaron
00:31:26 – 00:31:28
The filtering and filter thing.
Colleen
00:31:28 – 00:31:49
Is how is these these cascading net nested filters, like, how is it gonna work? So my goal for them is to get that basically, I'm just gonna call them cascading nested filters. Figure that problem out, and once it's mostly figured out yeah. I I absolutely think extracting it, of course, I think is good for everyone. So yeah.
Colleen
00:31:49 – 00:31:57
Yeah. That but I still think we're a little bit away because I feel like this cascading nest nested filter stuff is, is gonna be It's gnarly. A little bit of time.
Aaron
00:31:57 – 00:32:10
Yeah. Would it be would it be a reasonable thing to aim for to say that we would have another license client before your contract is up on the Ruby side?
Colleen
00:32:10 – 00:32:11
Or I think so.
Aaron
00:32:11 – 00:32:12
Are we running those independently?
Colleen
00:32:13 – 00:32:33
I think, realistically, November to some I mean, a couple month I feel like springtime. Yeah. And I think we should because I think to Sean's point earlier, we don't wanna support 2 people if we take funding. We wanted that that to be money to support 1 person and another contract to support the other person. Right?
Colleen
00:32:33 – 00:32:43
If it's you and me. And so, yeah, I think that's totally reasonable. I think that sales cycle probably starts in the spring. Mhmm. And, you know, distribution is gonna be interesting too.
Colleen
00:32:44 – 00:32:45
So
Aaron
00:32:45 – 00:32:46
that'll be Technically?
Colleen
00:32:47 – 00:32:50
Yeah. I mean, private gems aren't really a thing. We do.
Aaron
00:32:52 – 00:32:56
So We need to talk to there are 2 people that do,
Sean
00:32:57 – 00:33:00
what I know one of them.
Aaron
00:33:00 – 00:33:10
Oh, no, no, no. It's not key. Mike Perham. I'm answering a different question. If that was the question I was answering, it would have been him.
Aaron
00:33:11 – 00:33:42
There are 2 companies that do, private package distribution. 1 is keygen.sh and the other is unlock.sh. Unlock is going to be our package distributor for the PHP side, and I'm friendly with the founder on Twitter. It's amazing because it's also going to be our, our storefront. So we get to hook up our Stripe connect, and then all of our clients will be able to just pay.
Aaron
00:33:42 – 00:34:00
It's like Stripe checkout, but for private packages. And so right now, he only hosts he only hosts, I think, no, NPM, Electron and PHP, but I know that he's looking into Ruby as well, gems. So that may be something we don't have to worry too much about.
Colleen
00:34:01 – 00:34:04
Okay. Cool. Well, we're we're a ways off from that, but just things that
Aaron
00:34:04 – 00:34:32
Yeah. That Yeah. I was just thinking about that because you were saying, like, if it is 6 months away, and Sean's saying we need to be in a good, like, you know, position of power or whatever, What are the things we could be thinking about now that we're not already thinking about? Because I think we are thinking about the Laravel stuff pretty well. Like Sean said, we're like, we have a plan and we're executing it.
Aaron
00:34:32 – 00:34:54
And, you know, Keith is gonna be the first one, and then we'll be ready to I I mean, almost immediately ready to get more people on board. But on the rail side, because I think if we could show 2 different revenue streams, that gives us a lot of power to be like, look, it it works not only once it works twice.
Colleen
00:34:55 – 00:34:55
And I
Aaron
00:34:55 – 00:35:07
feel like that's a, that's a big deal. So trying to think, what do we do in the next couple of months that sets us up for good optionality? Not that we're going to do it. It's just nice to have optionality.
Sean
00:35:12 – 00:35:33
You know okay. So to get the 1st license sales seems like a networking and sales driven approach is the way that makes the most sense. But, Aaron, you're already set up for that on the Laravel side. Then on the rail side, we're not. So I think to me, that's the piece that we need to start working on if that's what we want to do.
Sean
00:35:34 – 00:36:02
There's another piece, which I I am in I mean, I'm saying I'm in charge, but what I mean is, like, I will take this, which is the marketing side. Like, we need landing pages for both Rails and Laravel, and we need, like, consistent messaging, etcetera. So that's another thing I think we need soon ish, actually. But then so then on the rail side for us to start, like, building up that network of possibilities, I think I don't know. I got like, there's lots of ways to do that.
Sean
00:36:02 – 00:36:06
Like, there's, like, technical conferences going to those.
Colleen
00:36:06 – 00:36:07
Yeah. I wanted to like
Sean
00:36:07 – 00:36:11
Yeah. When people are like, what do you do? And then you say what you do.
Colleen
00:36:11 – 00:36:21
So I wanted to bring that up because so I you know, my file uploader is active storage. I've given talks on active storage. I I write articles about it. So people randomly DM me about active storage. Right?
Colleen
00:36:21 – 00:36:49
I'm like the active storage person. I have no clout in the SQL active record world. So maybe I need my, like, personal content on the Twitters, and any content we put out there. If we wanna putting out content out there, there's so many opportunities I think here for, you know, how does your ORM do it? And, like, the biggest thing being our our loving of the subqueries, pending relationship subquery stuff.
Colleen
00:36:50 – 00:37:11
I think there's opportunity for technical content there, and I have not, like, engaged in that way in the rails community, but maybe I should start kind of being more active from, like, SQL and active record, and what does it do to go down that path? Is that worth my time or not, is what I'm trying to ask you.
Sean
00:37:11 – 00:37:14
I think, like, the ideal con if you're gonna do the content path
Colleen
00:37:15 – 00:37:15
Mhmm.
Sean
00:37:15 – 00:37:37
Then the ideal content would be how to build a query builder. Like Yeah. If you think that that is something that would get any traction at all, then, yes, that's worth your time. Because the closer it is to the product, the better value the more value you get out of the content. And even if that's not a thing we think would go viral or make the rounds to kinda doubt it.
Sean
00:37:37 – 00:37:59
Yeah. Having that as a resource is, like, I guess Josh would call it, like, a we're a brick. Right? Like, in terms of SEO and stuff, that's not gonna hurt us there, and it may it may turn into leads. But, yeah, like, if you think there's a conference talk or a pay like, a an article, then that would be worth doing.
Sean
00:37:59 – 00:38:14
Outside of that, going too far to the edges like, I actually don't think it's worth it based on, like, what our goals are. So, like, I think it would be a waste of time for you to do, like, some sort of active record content, like, for now Okay. For this goal.
Colleen
00:38:14 – 00:38:16
That sounds good.
Aaron
00:38:16 – 00:38:17
I have
Sean
00:38:17 – 00:38:18
Yeah.
Aaron
00:38:18 – 00:38:18
Go ahead.
Sean
00:38:18 – 00:38:27
Well, because, like, if you as you've discovered, you are now the active record person, and that's what always happens. Like, you do the I'm sorry. You're the, active storage person.
Colleen
00:38:27 – 00:38:27
Yeah.
Sean
00:38:27 – 00:38:46
And that's what always happens. Like, I became the CSS person that people paid me to, like, write, you know, PDF, like, oh, I'm sorry, Photoshop to HTML CSS. You know? I was like, that was not what I wanted to happen, but, you know, in my rates, so whatever. So so, anyway, that's that's my experience with that.
Aaron
00:38:47 – 00:39:38
I tend to agree a 100%. And I think even one level even one level beyond, like, writing stuff about building a query builder is just sharing the screenshots and animated GIFs and stuff of the current stuff that you're working on. And anytime, anytime you come across something interesting in the current stuff you're working on, share that. Because I think I think I've had to train, like I've had to train myself when I started getting serious about, like, trying to become more Twitter famous. I had to train my brain to be like, okay, this, this daily work that I'm doing, somebody will find it interesting even if it's, like, moderately interesting or not at all interesting to me.
Aaron
00:39:38 – 00:40:14
The stuff that like the stuff that we're all doing is super deep, hard and cool stuff. And so wherever you can take something that you're already doing, take a screenshot of it or put it into that code image tool and share it. I feel like that is. That's good stuff to be doing now. That's not helpful when it's time in 6 months to like, make sales, but now it's great because you start like, you start like, getting known for the recursive query builder stuff.
Colleen
00:40:14 – 00:40:15
Right?
Aaron
00:40:15 – 00:40:26
You know, and you start implanting into people's brains. It's not very good direct response, but we have we have a long time until that's needed. So I feel like that's a good thing to be doing now, especially screenshots and gifts.
Colleen
00:40:26 – 00:40:28
Yeah. Sounds good.
Aaron
00:40:32 – 00:40:37
Anything else you learned? I mean, you've you've signed off a Slack, so something changed.
Colleen
00:40:38 – 00:40:44
Right? Oh, right. All of my new. Yeah. I think I mean, there's a lot I learned.
Colleen
00:40:44 – 00:41:20
I think some of it is not relevant to our our company so much. But I think, you know, that's a thing for me. Like, that's about minimizing distractions. I think I was enlightened to my own fears and my own expectations of myself, and I think that I learned a lot about that. And, you know, here's the reality, guys, is we had a couple people get up there and talk about people very successful people, like the CEO of Wild Bit was there.
Colleen
00:41:20 – 00:41:35
And, you know, she got up there and talked about how they do 32 hour work weeks. And that's amazing when you're a super successful company. But ain't no one built a multimillion dollar company on 32 hour work weeks. You just can't. It's just not for real.
Colleen
00:41:35 – 00:41:49
So people sometimes treat me like I'm like, they're so surprised at what I have already done. They don't expect anything else from me. Does that make any sense? And sometimes I feed into that a little bit. Like, people like, oh, that sounds harder.
Colleen
00:41:49 – 00:41:53
You, you know, you've already copied to me. And it's great what I've done. But I think sometimes I let Jack Are
Sean
00:41:53 – 00:41:56
people in our community or like your family?
Colleen
00:41:56 – 00:41:58
Yeah. Just like yeah. Just like more like Friends.
Sean
00:41:58 – 00:42:00
Yeah. Regular regular people.
Aaron
00:42:00 – 00:42:02
Normies. People.
Colleen
00:42:03 – 00:42:10
So they're confused when I'm like, I gotta work more than 36 hours a week, like, if I want this to be successful.
Sean
00:42:10 – 00:42:15
Like, why? You got a 4 day 4 day a week contract. Why are you working more than that?
Colleen
00:42:15 – 00:42:39
Exactly. So I think for me, I've kind of allowed that narrative to feed into some of the decisions I've made. And I think also okay. Something else I have to say is, like, I met a lot of amazing wonderful people, but I would also like to say money doesn't buy happiness. I'm pretty sure, you know, I'm I have this incredible life and I'm incredibly happy.
Colleen
00:42:39 – 00:43:00
So I'm also worried about upsetting the balance that is my really spectacular life. So, I mean, I think this is kind of totally off topic for our podcast. But, I think that's just something interesting I learned about myself and what I want and what kind of time I wanna put into making this a success.
Aaron
00:43:04 – 00:43:06
So that's why you signed off Slack. Okay.
Colleen
00:43:06 – 00:43:16
Right. So part so a few things. One is, like, I'm gonna start doing focused hours, like, because sometimes I'll get on and and I'll be like, oh, what's everyone doing? You guys are my friends. That's the problem.
Colleen
00:43:16 – 00:43:43
Right? When not that it's a problem with friends, but when your best friends are your work friends, you wanna be on Slack all the time and you wanna know what everyone's doing and you wanna participate in the conversations. So I am gonna try and do focused hours Pacific time, 9 to noon every day, no Slack. And I'm gonna work a couple I picked 2 nights a week that I'm gonna work, and I'm just trying to, like, kinda focus and use my time really efficiently.
Sean
00:43:43 – 00:43:47
This is like the exact schedule. Like this is almost exactly what I do.
Colleen
00:43:47 – 00:43:49
Yeah. Does it work? What do you think?
Sean
00:43:50 – 00:44:04
Yes. Yeah. And the and because it's a compromise, it's always this compromise in this balancing act with trying to make sure that because I like my family. I Like, I do, in fact, like spending time with them.
Colleen
00:44:04 – 00:44:04
Right.
Sean
00:44:04 – 00:44:28
Totally. So they're, like, on equal footing with everything else, and I like everything else that I'm doing a lot right now. You know, normally, I'd have a job that I hate, which I would be like, those guys can just deal with me, like, kinda half asking it for a little bit or whatever. I don't do that with this job. So I have literally things that I want to do in every single aspect of my life, and it's very hard to figure out, like, that balance.
Sean
00:44:28 – 00:44:43
But, I mean, I'm doing it. It's definitely possible. And then the focus time is key, like, that is acts absolutely key. And also trying to figure out when my best brain hours are, and when to allocate those to what.
Colleen
00:44:44 – 00:44:46
Yeah. I feel the same.
Sean
00:44:47 – 00:44:51
Yeah. So, like, that morning hours for you is the best for you?
Colleen
00:44:51 – 00:44:52
Yeah. Definitely.
Aaron
00:44:53 – 00:44:54
When is it for you, Sean?
Sean
00:44:56 – 00:45:04
You usually, my best hours are evening hours, always has been, which is challenging with a family. So I don't get to take advantage of that
Colleen
00:45:05 – 00:45:05
Yeah.
Sean
00:45:05 – 00:45:26
Very often. Because, you know, I mean, it's like same as you, Colleen. Like, kid goes to bed, then it's time for, like, the grown ups to actually talk to each other and hang out, and then that's, like, my most productive hours. So that but that's the time, like that's the time we have, so that's what we do. And then, you know, some nights Beth has stuff because she has a life.
Sean
00:45:26 – 00:45:36
So she goes out and does stuff, and those are my my working nights. So yeah. In other words, yes, I do have ideal working hours. I don't get to actually use leverage doing them. For working.
Sean
00:45:36 – 00:45:55
Yeah. And then I also have realized, like because I have done the burnout thing hardcore multiple times in my life, and I've realized I have to maintain other things too. Like Right. I still have my anime night and my Dungeons and Dragons night. Like, these are, like, requirements for my for my mental health.
Sean
00:45:55 – 00:46:18
Yeah. It's so hard to to to balance it all, but the focus hours, that's what I'm always striving for, is to create the largest number of blocks of hours together. So, like, at work, that means continuously, like, fighting back on standing meetings and, being the the the guy that, like, quits out of Slack and when nobody else does. You know? Right.
Sean
00:46:18 – 00:46:35
Like, this is like, nope. I think that it's more valuable. And I and I am also constantly bringing up, like, deep work, that book, and trying to convince people to read it. And, like, so that's the priority for me is to get the the time for deep focused work. I'm always trying to to get that.
Sean
00:46:36 – 00:46:39
I don't succeed. I say I succeed, like, 80% of the time, something like that.
Aaron
00:46:39 – 00:46:58
Still, it's pretty good. I like I really like the idea of setting up specific nights to do other work because I get in this I get in this spot where it's like, I could work every night, which is bad.
Colleen
00:46:58 – 00:46:59
Right.
Aaron
00:46:59 – 00:47:07
And then if I take some, like, if I don't work some nights, I also feel bad. Cause I'm like,
Colleen
00:47:08 – 00:47:08
am
Aaron
00:47:08 – 00:47:34
I just gonna, am I just gonna like lounge around tonight when I could be working? And so then I lounge around and feel bad or I go work and feel bad. It's like, wait a second. So I wonder if like saying, okay, I'm going to work Wednesday Thursday night, then my Monday Tuesday Friday night, I wouldn't feel bad about it. And my Wednesday Thursday night, I wouldn't feel bad about it.
Aaron
00:47:34 – 00:47:34
Like This
Sean
00:47:34 – 00:47:35
is good, dude.
Aaron
00:47:35 – 00:47:37
Yeah. That sounds amazing.
Colleen
00:47:37 – 00:47:48
That's so that was one of my things. So I and you know, you have to, you know, ask for what you want, I guess, in terms of, like, your spouse. Because your spouse might get upset if you work at night, at least mine does sometimes.
Sean
00:47:48 – 00:47:50
Yeah. It's negotiation. Right?
Colleen
00:47:50 – 00:48:04
Right. Well, that but the point is you can't just be like, what I was doing before is it would be like we put the kids in and they're like, oh, crap. I have to work tonight or I gotta work tonight or or, Aaron, like, you're saying, I wouldn't work and we'd hang out and watch TV. And in my brain, I'm like, oh my god. It won't be working.
Colleen
00:48:04 – 00:48:20
So we sat down when I came back from the conference because the big thing, I think, one of the things I'm really good at that I've kind of lost a little bit. I'm excellent at at, like, focused work. Like, I can go 4 hours, like, dead silence. But with Slack, Slack is a huge distractor from being kind of lost. Terrible.
Colleen
00:48:20 – 00:48:31
Terrible. And with the client, you know how much they're on Slack, so I was always Yeah. Worried that if I disappeared, it would be like, oh, what's Colleen doing? Mhmm. So I've decided to bring to pull that back.
Colleen
00:48:31 – 00:48:43
Just pull it back. If it's a problem, you'd have my phone number. You can text me or call me. And, and I sat down with my husband and I said, look, here's the deal. I we are at the stage in our business where I need to put more time in.
Colleen
00:48:43 – 00:48:55
So 2 nights a week, this that's what we're gonna do. Like, 8 to 10 is our time. I'm gonna work. And and it so sets the expectation has been set. On the days, Aaron, I'm not working, I feel fine about it.
Colleen
00:48:55 – 00:49:04
I'm like, I need to rest. And then the days I am, I don't feel guilty about not hanging out with him because he knows. Like, and so it's hopefully, it will work. It's only week 1. I'll get back to you.
Colleen
00:49:04 – 00:49:05
But it seems like it's
Aaron
00:49:05 – 00:49:10
gonna work. Sounds great so far. We already have Go ahead. Go
Sean
00:49:10 – 00:49:36
ahead, Sean. Yeah. So another thing I was gonna say that that has worked for me in the past is sometimes in order to achieve a goal like, for example, I wanted to get promoted. And so at one point last year, there was a thing that I knew, like, okay. If I rock this, then I will have a very good chance of, like, talking about promotions and stuff.
Sean
00:49:37 – 00:49:56
But it was also, like, I'm gonna need to put in like, it's above and beyond what my job requires. So I'm gonna need to put in a ton of time. Mhmm. And so what I did was I talked with Beth, my wife, and I was like, okay, look. I want this promotion.
Sean
00:49:56 – 00:50:21
I think doing this work will give me the best chance. If I do this, it's gonna mean, like, I disappear for like 3 months, basically. Like I will, you know, be around sometimes on weekends, you know, but, like, it won't be the usual, like, amount of time you see me, and don't be surprised if, like, I'm working through dinner and we're ordering out more, etcetera. Like, if I if I do this, do we want that? And then we worked it out, and we decided, like, yes.
Aaron
00:50:21 – 00:50:22
Right.
Sean
00:50:22 – 00:50:31
This is this is good. Like, I she wants it for me. I want it for me. Makes sense for us as family, so I did it. And and it and it worked, and I've done that a couple times.
Sean
00:50:32 – 00:51:06
And I've done that in the past without that conversation and without the deliberate, like, choice, and that is the worst. That is absolutely the worst. Like Yeah. But going into it ahead of time, knowing the opportunity cost and, like, what I'm losing by choosing to do that, and then making sure it's a thing that, like, Beth and I are both on the same page with, and that has been, like, a much different experience. And those have been, like, couple times that I've done that over the last couple of years have been really, really beneficial.
Sean
00:51:06 – 00:51:10
I was thinking of doing something similar, you know, soon ish here on the fine stuff.
Colleen
00:51:11 – 00:51:25
Yeah. I was talking to Michelle about that while we were founders comp, kinda like the sprint versus rest period Yeah. Business building. And, like, that's what I'm doing right now. I'm like, I'm gonna spend the next 2 months in sprint and see, you know, how far I can get.
Colleen
00:51:25 – 00:51:37
But, yeah, I love that. I love that idea. Of course, discussing it with your spouse and agreeing, like, this is did you, like, work when you did that though, Sean, was that, like, every day you were working 12 hour 13, 14 hour days? Or were you just
Sean
00:51:37 – 00:51:59
getting a couple of weeks? Well, I'll tell you what. It was one of those times in life where, like, it was I was so overworked that I don't really remember much. So I I couldn't I mean, it was I can't even tell you how long I was doing it. It's a few months, and it was at I was consistently working 10 hour days usually.
Sean
00:51:59 – 00:52:11
And then there were definitely a few times where, like, I had personal deadlines, you know, and I was literally working until I was falling asleep. And, like, I'm like, fall asleep. Do a little bit more. Yeah.
Aaron
00:52:11 – 00:52:11
Do a
Sean
00:52:11 – 00:52:12
little bit more
Colleen
00:52:12 – 00:52:13
in some of us. Just keep going.
Sean
00:52:13 – 00:52:24
So it was intense. But this crazy thing is, like, I don't that was fine. I was fine with that. I didn't mind it at all because I've totally decided to do that. That was completely up to me.
Sean
00:52:24 – 00:52:42
I could have stopped if I wanted. It was negotiated with Beth, so nobody was resenting each other. I wasn't resenting my work because they didn't ask me to do it. Like, it was great. It it was exhausting, and I then needed several months to, like, unwind from that.
Sean
00:52:43 – 00:53:01
I definitely was not producing the same output as I normally would have with the same amount of time. But, yeah, it was it was intense. But, I mean, I I don't know, but that was, like, a really specific thing that needed to be done. It was a deliverable. It was really clear, like, what that needed to be.
Sean
00:53:01 – 00:53:07
Yeah. I wouldn't do it if I didn't have that clarity of, like, I'll be done when these things are shipped
Colleen
00:53:07 – 00:53:07
Right.
Sean
00:53:07 – 00:53:16
Or these goals are accomplished or whatever. Like and I don't think goals accomplishing goals would be a good thing to hitch to that because you can't control that
Aaron
00:53:16 – 00:53:16
Right.
Sean
00:53:17 – 00:53:29
Like, some outcome, but I can control, like well, I mean, I I've been doing it long enough that I know, like, yeah, I can finish this product by this time. So Yeah.
Aaron
00:53:29 – 00:53:42
Well, I like this idea. I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna talk to Jennifer about that. We already have, like we call it individual pursuits. And so we'll say, would you wanna have an individual pursuit time tonight?
Colleen
00:53:42 – 00:53:43
I love it.
Aaron
00:53:43 – 00:53:51
Yeah. So we already have kind of a moniker for it, but I may build some individual pursuits into the calendar. I like that.
Colleen
00:53:51 – 00:53:52
Love it.
Aaron
00:53:52 – 00:53:58
That sounds like a good idea. Alright. Well, speaking of focus work, should we give everyone their time back? Are we done here?
Colleen
00:53:59 – 00:54:00
Yep. I'm good.
Aaron
00:54:02 – 00:54:03
K.
Sean
00:54:03 – 00:54:04
Yep. I'm good.
Me

Thanks for reading! My name is Aaron and I write, make videos, and generally try really hard.

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