Aaron Francis

@aarondfrancis is the co-founder of @wetryhard a company he started with Steve Tenuto that makes amazing videos for developers and teaches companies how to do it too. He started Try Hard Studios after being laid off from PlanetScale… while on paternity leave with his second set of twins (!). Prior to that he was a data analyst and a developer. He started his career as an an accountant at a Big 4 accounting firm. In addition to his work at Try Hard Studios he’s also a husband and the father of two sets of twins. We discussed: - Life with two sets of twins - How he and his wife managed after he was laid off on paternity leave - The challenges of starting a business with newborns - Navigating a loss of one of their triplets during their first pregnancy - How to stay present with all the pings from an extremely online life - Parenting each of his four kids differently - Finding ways to focus on only what matters at this stage of life - Hilarious and fascinating stories: falling asleep in a chair at the gym, building a non-traditional office space, and celebrating a birthday with a solo-staycation. Where to find Aaron Francis - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aarondfrancis/ - Twitter: https://twitter.com/aarondfrancis - Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@aarondfrancis Where to find Adam Fishman - FishmanAF Newsletter: www.FishmanAFNewsletter.com - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamjfishman/ - Instagram: https://ww.instagram.com/startupdadpod/ _ In this episode, we cover: [2:08] Welcome [3:01] Laid off while having second set of twins [6:33] Decision to start a business [11:34] Conversation with wife about business idea [12:49] Family now [14:17] Used to be an accountant [15:48 Decision to start a family [23:46] Starting a business w/ newborns [25:59] Staying present when you have an online presence [29:33] Advice to younger Aaron [33:23] Rollercoaster day [34:48] Parenting style w/ each kid [36:49] Frameworks [38:00] Where you don’t align with partner [42:31] Funny stories [51:29] Kid’s relationship to tech [56:15] Follow along [57:01] Lightning round [1:09:15] Thank you — Show references: Aaron’s website: aaronfrancis.com TryHard Studios: https://tryhardstudios.com/ Screencasting: screencasting.com Texas A & M: https://www.tamu.edu/index.html Ernst & Young: https://www.ey.co Severance: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11280740/ Factorio: https://www.factorio.com/ The Joulel: https://www.thejouledallas.com/offers/book-direct Calvin and Hobbes: https://calvinandhobbes.webflow.io/ Sicario: Day of the Soldado: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5052474/ Luddites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite Pee Pee Tee Pee: https://www.amazon.com/Peepee-Teepee-Sprinkling-WeeWee-Cellophane/dp/B000NM3DFY Kyle Lacy’s Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbBdVw-ncyQ How to Be a Pirate by Isaac Fitzgerald: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-to-be-a-pirate-isaac-fitzgerald/1130769165 Richard Scarry: https://www.richardscarry.com/ Vuori jogger pants: https://vuoriclothing.com/ Taking Cara Babies: https://takingcarababies.com/meet-cara Burl Ives Rudolph: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21616734/ The Sandlot: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108037/ Honda Odyssey: https://automobiles.honda.com/odyssey Car Mom: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCarMom _ For sponsorship inquiries email: podcast@fishmana.com. For Startup Dad Merch: www.startupdadshop.com Production support for Startup Dad is provided by Tommy Harron at http://www.armaziproductions.com/

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Transcript

Aaron

00:00:00 – 00:00:34

I see two opposing sides online often, which is, like, becoming a parent is wonderful, and therefore, it's easy and everyone should do it. And then the other side is becoming a parent is very hard, and you should only do it if you're a % sure. And I feel like both of those are a little bit caricatures. And I think the reality is there are days, there are minutes in a day where you will go from this is a wonderful, amazing, and this is incredibly hard, and I don't wanna do it. And I think you just need to be prepared to experience all of that in a day.

Adam

00:00:36 – 00:01:04

Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. One of the scariest things on the planet is being the sole earner for your family and losing your job. But that's exactly what happened to today's startup dad guest right after he welcomed a second set of twins into the world. Today's guest is Aaron Francis.

Adam

00:01:04 – 00:02:03

He's the cofounder of TryHard Studios, a company he started with his cofounder, Steve, after they both lost their jobs in a layoff. He's gone from accountant to developer to making videos for developer education over the span of the last fifteen years. In our conversation today we spoke about how he and his wife navigated the loss of one of their triplets, life with two sets of twins, and how they managed after he was laid off while on paternity leave. We talked about the challenges of starting a business with newborns, how he stays present with all the pings from his online life, and how he's learned to parent each of his four kids differently while focusing only on what truly matters at this stage of his life. We also covered some fantastic and hilarious stories, like getting caught asleep in a chair at the gym, how he built his nontraditional office space, and celebrating his most recent birthday with a solo staycation.

Adam

00:02:04 – 00:02:19

I hope you enjoy today's conversation with Aaron Francis. Welcome, Aaron Francis, to the Startup Dad Podcast. Aaron, I could not be more excited for this conversation. Thank you for joining me.

Aaron

00:02:19 – 00:02:29

Of course. It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm already taking umbrage with your best dad ever sign right over your shoulder because I also have a sign like that, so we might have to duke it out, but I'm excited to be here.

Adam

00:02:29 – 00:02:34

It turns out there can, in fact, be multiple best dads ever because it's in the eye of the beholder.

Aaron

00:02:34 – 00:02:37

Right? Be. Yeah. Yeah. So congratulations on yours, I suppose.

Adam

00:02:38 – 00:02:39

Congrats to you too.

Aaron

00:02:39 – 00:02:40

Yes. Thank you.

Adam

00:02:40 – 00:02:44

Alright. So I clearly, I invited you on the show to talk about PHP frameworks.

Aaron

00:02:44 – 00:02:45

Yeah. Probably.

Adam

00:02:46 – 00:02:59

Yeah. Just kidding. It's a parenting podcast, goddamn it. So we're gonna talk about being a dad. And, usually, I start by asking people to, like, go into their professional background and kinda, you know, meander around in there.

Adam

00:02:59 – 00:03:20

We will get there eventually. But I wanted to start and ask you something slightly different because you had the very unique experience of being laid off while on paternity leave with your second set of twins. So I just wanna say that again. That's not one set of twins. That's a second set of twins.

Adam

00:03:20 – 00:03:23

You already had one, so we're talking four kids.

Aaron

00:03:23 – 00:03:34

It it is hard to do something truly unique in the universe, but being laid off on paternity leave with your second set of twins, I might be the first one. I don't know. I might be the first one.

Adam

00:03:34 – 00:03:37

I wouldn't wish that on anyone, so let's hope you are

Aaron

00:03:37 – 00:03:38

the first and only

Adam

00:03:39 – 00:03:49

one. So my question is, how did you not have a mental breakdown when that happened? Because I'm putting myself in your shoes. I woulda had a rough time.

Aaron

00:03:49 – 00:04:02

Hidden in the question is a supposition, which I might have to challenge. It was rough. It was very rough. So at the time, this is almost a full year ago at this point. So I have survived, speakerially.

Aaron

00:04:02 – 00:04:23

But at the time, my wife and I had two two year olds. So they were two and a half, and we had a second set of twins. So at that point, we had four kids under the age of three, and I was on paternity leave and got the call. I was supposed to return on a Friday, and I got the call on a Wednesday. Thank you for your service.

Aaron

00:04:23 – 00:04:40

And I was like, whole f. What do I do now? And it was and continues to be incredibly difficult. It was one of those things where it's like, this is professionally the best time for me to go out on my own. I have a business partner, but for us to go out on our own.

Aaron

00:04:40 – 00:04:53

And on a personal side, it was the worst time to go out on our own. So I'm the sole breadwinner in our family. My wife works harder than me, but she gets paid nothing for it. So I'm the sole breadwinner. We had at that point four kids.

Aaron

00:04:53 – 00:05:17

We do have an au pair that lives with us because we had four kids under three. And now suddenly the money or the income is gone. And, you know, I have type one diabetes, so health care kind of an important deal. I also fortunately developed rheumatoid arthritis during that process probably due to stress and lack of sleep. And so, like, the world is closing in upon us, and it was like, let's start a business.

Aaron

00:05:17 – 00:05:41

And so it was tough. And recently, I wrote my year end review of 2024. And in there, I just, like, fully admitted to, like, putting the big kids down at 7PM and then walking out of their room and sitting at the top of the stairs and just weeping because it was like, everything is on me, and it is very difficult. So how did I not have a mental breakdown? I'm not sure I didn't, but I made it through.

Aaron

00:05:41 – 00:05:44

So we can maybe talk about that. Maybe that's a better line of questioning.

Adam

00:05:46 – 00:05:54

Yeah. Well, kudos to you. And it now seems like you are, in fact, thriving, probably not crying at the top of the stairs anymore.

Aaron

00:05:55 – 00:05:55

Not every night.

Adam

00:05:55 – 00:06:04

That's for sure. Right. Not it's not a daily occurrence. No. And so now we can talk a bit about your new professional background.

Aaron

00:06:04 – 00:06:04

Yes.

Adam

00:06:04 – 00:06:39

You do a lot of cool things on the Internet if I were to generalize. And, you know, what's funny is what you mentioned, most people when they lose a job in your situation, would be desperate to find some sort of stability. Right? Instead, you decided that the logical thing to do was to go start your own business with four kids under the age of three as the sole breadwinner of the family. Tell me about that decision process, and that should dovetail into what it is that you do today.

Aaron

00:06:39 – 00:06:50

Sure. Yeah. So my now business partner, his name is Steve, and we started a company called TryHard Studios. So there's some proper nouns that will help inform this discussion. So Steve and I both got laid off from the same place.

Aaron

00:06:50 – 00:07:04

So I was making video at a developer tool company, and Steve was my editor. Turns out Steve is, like, way overqualified to be an editor. He does literally everything, and I found that out later. Right? So Steve and I are working together.

Aaron

00:07:04 – 00:07:20

We've got this great working relationship. We are crushing it on metrics and videos and everything. We're bringing in all of these free users to this tool. And then the company decides, oops, we don't want free users anymore. Actually, our free tier is going away.

Aaron

00:07:20 – 00:07:38

There's no free tier ever at all whatsoever. And the guy that makes YouTube videos that brings in hundreds of free tier users, we maybe don't need him anymore either. And so me and Steve and the marketing team and the sales team, we all got laid off. Everybody got laid off. Only engineers were left and it was like, shoot.

Aaron

00:07:39 – 00:07:56

Could we, like, could we go play the hits at a different company? Probably. In fact, Steve and I took several joint interviews, which was a first for me because companies saw what we had done at our former company and were like, hey. We wanna keep the bands together. Y'all come play at our venue.

Aaron

00:07:56 – 00:08:11

And very flattering, very encouraging. Steve and I talked a lot about it, and we thought, like, man, I don't wanna play the same song again. That's boring. Like, we just crushed that. And by no fault of our own, it ended up not mattering.

Aaron

00:08:11 – 00:08:32

And I don't wanna, like, I don't wanna do that again. And so part of the calculus was, is there something that we can do to ride this momentum coming out of this company? Because I think at that point, we had the goodwill of the community. People, I think correctly, in my opinion, picked up on the fact that we were kinda wronged because from the outside, we were crushing it. Like, we were everywhere.

Aaron

00:08:32 – 00:08:51

Our videos were doing great on YouTube, and it was a database company. So it's like the worst subject material, but we're still making it work. And so we came out of this situation, and we get the sympathy of somebody who was wronged. Right? And so we're in this position where Steve and I are taking the next week after we got laid off.

Aaron

00:08:51 – 00:09:07

I think I had 30 or 40 calls. And that's not because I'm, like, a super genius. That's because I was in a very public position, and I was putting myself out there publicly. And so people are aware of me. And so it's like an unfair advantage to be able to do work publicly.

Aaron

00:09:07 – 00:09:23

And so we took all these calls, and Steve and I kept having these calls at the end of the day, just me and him. And we're like, man, everybody wants us to come do the same thing. They just want us to run the same playbook at their company. Do we wanna do that? And the answer came back, no.

Aaron

00:09:23 – 00:09:34

Like, we don't wanna do that. You just can't do that very many times before you become an obvious gun for hire and you lose some of your effectiveness. But, also, just internally, it was like, that I don't know. I just did that. I don't wanna do that again.

Aaron

00:09:34 – 00:09:50

I want a new challenge. And so we chose to chew glass and stare into the abyss and, like, do it on our own. And so we we partnered up and we set out with these lofty ideas of we will be video consultants for hire. We're very good at making video. I'm very good on camera.

Aaron

00:09:50 – 00:10:00

Steve's very good behind the scenes. We're very good together. We walked out to the market and the market said, we don't want that. Will you make videos for us? Like, congratulations on your consulting or whatever.

Aaron

00:10:00 – 00:10:12

Can you make videos for us? And it was like, oh, jeez. Again, you just can't do that for very many people before you lose kind of the magic of, like, I believe this thing authentically. People are like, no. You don't.

Aaron

00:10:12 – 00:10:13

You do this for every company.

Adam

00:10:13 – 00:10:14

Mhmm.

Aaron

00:10:14 – 00:10:46

And so we quickly pivoted into what our business is now, which is in house educational material. So in the past year that we've been in business, we've published two courses that I have been the instructor for and one course where we've had a guest instructor, and that has been our primary source of revenue. We've also had some YouTube sponsorships and some of the course sponsorships. But the crux of our business is we make high quality educational material, and we sell it to people for US dollars. So it is a very basic business model, and it has worked pretty well so far.

Adam

00:10:47 – 00:10:51

Yeah. And that is tech forward, like code forward content.

Aaron

00:10:51 – 00:10:51

It is.

Adam

00:10:51 – 00:10:52

Right? It

Aaron

00:10:52 – 00:11:12

is. Yeah. So the two that I have instructed are both database courses, different flavors of databases. We also we have a property called screencasting.com, which we're in the process of now Steve and I together revamping that property. And that is how to teach on video, how to make really high quality screencasts very quickly.

Aaron

00:11:12 – 00:11:21

And so it's kind of a meta of, like, listen. I've done a thousand of these videos. Let me teach you, like, all of the pitfalls and how to avoid them. So we have that property as well.

Adam

00:11:21 – 00:11:23

You're kind of, like, productizing your expertise

Aaron

00:11:23 – 00:11:24

in a way that could

Adam

00:11:24 – 00:11:25

be sold to people. That's

Aaron

00:11:25 – 00:11:26

pretty cool.

Adam

00:11:26 – 00:11:37

When you were going through this and you're starting to figure out, like, hey. I'm gonna hang up my own shingle with my buddy, Steve. What was the conversation like with your wife?

Aaron

00:11:37 – 00:12:05

To my wife's tremendous credit, she just trusts me. And so I called her that Wednesday that I got laid off and just said, I just found out that I got laid off. It's the conversation that every I I am a husband, so I'll say every husband fears. I'm sure every sole breadwinner fears that conversation. But as a husband myself, every husband fears calling the wife and being like, I lost my job.

Aaron

00:12:05 – 00:12:36

Like, I know you're counting on me, and I lost my job. And her first response was, it's gonna be okay. We'll figure it out. And it's like the enormity of relief that washes over you when the person that has entrusted themselves to you says, I believe in you is it's it's just impossible to quantify. And so during this time, of course, she's, you know, helping me think through things and offering, like, opinions and sound advice, but she's always, like, I trust you.

Aaron

00:12:36 – 00:12:45

You're gonna figure this out. We will figure this out. Everything will be fine. Like, without that, there's just no chance I would have made this decision.

Adam

00:12:45 – 00:12:51

Well, kudos to your wife for being that supportive rock. Let let's talk about your family a little bit.

Aaron

00:12:51 – 00:12:51

So you

Adam

00:12:51 – 00:12:53

have a wife. I think her name is

Aaron

00:12:54 – 00:12:55

Jennifer. Uh-huh. Okay. Got it.

Adam

00:12:55 – 00:12:57

And you have approximately 500 children.

Aaron

00:12:57 – 00:13:13

Approximately. Yep. How did you and Jennifer meet each other? So we were the wing people for our friends who did not work out, but I used to be an accountant oddly enough. I was working at Ernst and Young, and I had a roommate who was working at a law firm.

Aaron

00:13:14 – 00:13:21

And he emailed me one day and was like, hey. Do you wanna go hang out with some younger girls? And I said, whoops. Hang on. Back up.

Aaron

00:13:21 – 00:13:28

What are we talking about here? I said, how old are we talking? He said, two years below us at Texas a and m where we all went. And I was like, oh, yeah. Sure.

Aaron

00:13:28 – 00:13:40

That's fine. Two years below us. Totally cool, man. Don't send this to my work email ever again. And so me and my buddy went out, and he was crushing on a girl that was interning at the law firm, and her roommate was Jennifer.

Aaron

00:13:41 – 00:13:54

And so we all went to A and M, but we went out together. And so me and my friend and Jennifer and her friend, they didn't work out, but I saw her. And I was like, well, that is a very cute girl. I think I remember her from a and m, barely. And so we started talking there.

Aaron

00:13:54 – 00:14:04

And it was, you know, it's nice because we didn't know each other in college, but we all kinda had the same friends. We have the shared past. And so, yeah, we met as the wing persons for our friends. Wow.

Adam

00:14:04 – 00:14:08

Well, I'm glad that worked out for you because it could have not if you were

Aaron

00:14:08 – 00:14:08

in France.

Adam

00:14:08 – 00:14:09

Yeah.

Aaron

00:14:09 – 00:14:17

Yes. I know. It could have not. So it worked out great, and everyone else in that story is happily married, and Jennifer and I are married to each other now. And it's lovely.

Adam

00:14:17 – 00:14:31

By the way, you mentioned you kinda, like, snuck something in there that I wanted to come back to, which is you used to be an accountant Yeah. Which I think I remembered when I was doing some research on your background. And that concludes gone from CPA

Aaron

00:14:31 – 00:14:39

Yes. Like Ernst and Young Proper licensed CPA. To I make videos on the Internet. Yep. Anything's possible, kids.

Adam

00:14:42 – 00:14:45

No wonder. Yeah. No wonder everyone wants to be a YouTuber when they get older.

Aaron

00:14:45 – 00:14:54

I know. I mean, I, like so I I went to Texas A and M. I you know, I live in Texas. I went to A and M. I studied accounting while I was there, and it was a delight.

Aaron

00:14:54 – 00:15:06

It was an absolute delight. The purity of it, the puzzle of it, the logic of it, obviously fit into my, even then, programmer brain. I was like, this is wonderful. Mhmm. Loved it so much.

Aaron

00:15:06 – 00:15:29

Graduated, crushed everything, went to Ernst and Young, walked in with bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then sat down to do rich people's taxes all day long. And I was like, oh, this freaking sucks. And so I made it one year one year. And the only reason I made it one year is because they gave me $5,000 for having passed the CPA exam. And if I quit before a year, they would take it back.

Aaron

00:15:29 – 00:15:37

And I was like, you're not taking them. That's a bunch of money. And so I made it one year, and then I walked out the door and became a programmer because it just sucked. Yeah.

Adam

00:15:37 – 00:15:38

Never looked back.

Aaron

00:15:38 – 00:15:42

No. Not in months. Do you do your family's taxes? Nope. I have an accountant.

Aaron

00:15:43 – 00:15:44

Okay. Great.

Adam

00:15:44 – 00:15:46

Somebody else gets to struggle through that.

Aaron

00:15:46 – 00:15:48

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Well, tell

Adam

00:15:48 – 00:16:02

me about your and Jennifer's decision to start a family because your family is not that far along. So this has to have been a relatively recent ish conversation. But what was that like?

Aaron

00:16:02 – 00:16:22

We got married relatively young based on the average, but for people coming out of Texas A and M, we got married relatively late. I mean, I was, you know, I was 25 when we got married, and she was 23. So for a and m grads, we're old at that point. But for the world, we're like, why are you getting married so young? So we have this nice long period of we're young, we're married, we actually don't want kids yet.

Aaron

00:16:22 – 00:16:36

And that was really wonderful for us. And I'm well aware that, like, some people desire that, but they get married super late and they can't have that. And, like, that would be difficult. I understand that. But we had this nice long period of, oh, we don't need to try to have kids.

Aaron

00:16:36 – 00:16:55

Like, we're just young and we're married and none of our friends had kids yet. And so then it got into the point where I'm like, you know, I think maybe '28, '20 '9, '30, something like that. And it's like, oh, we should have some kids now. And she's, I think, three years younger than me. And we started talking about, like, alright.

Aaron

00:16:55 – 00:17:15

We wanna kinda have a a bigger family, maybe three, maybe four kids. And so we were like, let's, you know, let's get started. And it was an abrupt realization that all the stories you hear about if you hold hands when you're 14, you're gonna get pregnant, those don't apply to 30 year olds. Right? And so it was very difficult for us that first time.

Aaron

00:17:15 – 00:17:34

Like, we we went for maybe two years of, like, of struggle, and we did end up getting some hormonal help. We didn't go full IVF, but we did get some help on the first set. And it was like, okay. You know, we can do this to hopefully boost the odds of getting pregnant. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:17:34 – 00:17:48

And boost it, it did. And we, in fact, for twenty six or twenty seven weeks, were pregnant with triplets. And so it was one shot. It was like, you know, we had we struggled with miscarriage, and then it was like, you're pregnant. It worked.

Aaron

00:17:49 – 00:17:51

By the way, there's three of them.

Adam

00:17:51 – 00:17:51

Mm-mm.

Aaron

00:17:51 – 00:18:11

And it was like, oh, what are we gonna do? Like, we lived in a, you know, a tiny two bedroom house. We both drove pretty small cars, and it was like, oh, we just got a full family in one go. And so that whole process was it was it was it was a roller coaster. It was like, I'm laughing.

Aaron

00:18:11 – 00:18:14

She's crying. She's crying. I'm laughing. I'm crying. She's laughing.

Aaron

00:18:14 – 00:18:52

It's like, what what are we gonna how what do we even do? And so even coming to terms with having triplets was very, like, it was a process because you go from zero to three. It's like, I can't do this, man. And then we had a just a devastating turn where we twenty six or so weeks in, we lost, one of our baby girls. And that is, again, like, just a devastating just, like, you you just you cast forward and you dream these dreams of, like, what the unit is going to look like.

Aaron

00:18:52 – 00:19:14

There's gonna be three of them. And at that point, we're like, we're done because three is a great number. And if we had a fourth, are they gonna be left out? Like, no. We've got this we've got this cohesive, incredibly tight, incredibly rare family structure, and that is, like, a dream that we could not have planned for.

Aaron

00:19:14 – 00:19:38

And then it's all taken away. And it's like, guys, I didn't want three in the first place. I got to the point where I was thrilled to death about three, and now it's two? Like, what the hell is going on here? And so that was like a huge that was a huge struggle for both of us, not least of all because sweet Hannah stayed in there till delivery day.

Adam

00:19:39 – 00:19:39

Yeah.

Aaron

00:19:40 – 00:20:11

And so it's like, delivery day is incredibly complicated because you're thrilled to meet your twins, but you're also dealing with the reality that it is not what it should be. You know? Mhmm. And so that was really hard. We had a funeral for our little daughter, because some of the things that we believe, Jennifer and I are both Christians, some of the things that we believe are that, like, the body deserves respect.

Aaron

00:20:11 – 00:20:25

Mhmm. And, like, this was a person whom we loved. And so, like, how do we as her parents, god, like, what are we supposed to do? I've never been a parent before, and I'm already burying a child. Like, why me?

Aaron

00:20:26 – 00:20:54

And how do we, like, treat that with honor and reverence that it deserves, but also go home and care for two babies that need us. It's like Yeah. This is not what it's supposed to feel like. And so that was very, very hard and continues to be, obviously, continues to be. And so the process after that was one of healing from that loss, but also learning how to be parents, but also learning how to be parents to twins.

Aaron

00:20:55 – 00:21:06

Like, there's two of them always. And so there is no, like, oh, mom's gonna wake up the first time, then dad's gonna wake up the second time. It's like, no. There's two of them. You both gotta wake up.

Aaron

00:21:06 – 00:21:11

Somebody's gotta do a bottle. Somebody's gotta do a breast. There's two mouths. What are we gonna do? Oh my god.

Aaron

00:21:11 – 00:21:39

So that was like it felt like we were just absolutely thrown into the deepest of deep ends. Yeah. And so then the second, like, after, like, we had kinda gotten a little ways through that, we opened the conversation of, we wanna have more than two kids, and we thought we were going to. What do we do now? And just like the journey that we had been on, I think we both decided that necessitated a low key approach to future children.

Aaron

00:21:39 – 00:22:04

And so we started before we were ready to have more kids because we thought we gotta take some of the pressure off. Like, let's just live for a little bit and go ye with God and we'll see what happens. And so we didn't do a freaking thing the second time. We were just like, we'll find out. Within the first month, we got pregnant and it was twins naturally.

Aaron

00:22:05 – 00:22:30

Just like it took us years the first time and we needed medical intervention. And now it's like, right then, right there, and it's twins. And if there is a redemption arc to this, one of the things that I was so thrilled about with regards to triplets was the cohesive unit. Nobody is left out. Everybody is a triplet or a parent.

Aaron

00:22:30 – 00:22:45

That's it. There's nobody that's like the forgotten child. Right? And so when it became twins, that that part kinda made me sad. It was like, we're probably gonna have a singleton or two singletons, and there's gonna be the twins and the other two.

Aaron

00:22:45 – 00:23:04

And it's like, okay. Well, we can't have the twins and the other one because then it's like, oh, that kinda sucks. And then just this gift of one of the things that I, like, really prized was everybody has somebody, and we got that again. Like, we got that. We have a set of boy girl twins and a set of boy girl twins.

Aaron

00:23:04 – 00:23:09

Wow. Everyone has a twin. Everyone has a brother. Everyone has a sister. Everyone has an opposite gender sibling.

Aaron

00:23:09 – 00:23:29

It's like, okay, well, now we're definitely done because I can't script anything better than this. And we've been gifted this, like, redemption of what I really wanted, which was this, like, very strange, tight knit, cohesive family. And so now we're definitely done. Shop's closed. We've got four kids.

Aaron

00:23:29 – 00:23:30

We've got two of everything Mhmm. Done.

Adam

00:23:30 – 00:23:33

The arc is full. Everyone's paired off.

Aaron

00:23:33 – 00:23:33

Yes.

Adam

00:23:33 – 00:23:34

Everyone's paired off.

Aaron

00:23:34 – 00:23:35

This is

Adam

00:23:35 – 00:23:53

good. I wanted to ask you about with your second set. Mhmm. You know, that's when you'd also, they had just been born, and that's when you started to start your company or cut it off. What was it like starting a business with brand new second set of twins at home?

Aaron

00:23:54 – 00:24:17

Just an absolute slog. So I have been doing things online for a long time. And so I've always had a thing here or there, like a side project, side business, whatever, but I've never properly, like, gone for it. And so, you know, at this point, the new twins are three months old, maybe, something like that. We have an au pair, young woman who moved from Germany to live with us.

Aaron

00:24:17 – 00:24:25

And so not only am I, like, supporting four kids and a wife, we're also paying for basically what would be like a little sister or a niece to, like, live with us.

Adam

00:24:25 – 00:24:29

So We've we've had an au pair. It's like having a teenager There

Aaron

00:24:29 – 00:24:38

you go. In your house. So you pay for car and phone and food, and then you pay him the stipend on top. And so it's, like, basically another adult that you're providing for. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:24:38 – 00:24:49

It was a tough decision. I think part of what made it easier was this was, like, the noble path. So I could go out and say, I'm starting a company. I could announce to the world. I'm starting a company.

Aaron

00:24:50 – 00:25:07

And then I could come back three months later and say, I failed, and people would be like, hey. Good for you for trying. I felt like the opportunity cost actually flowed the other direction if I went into a company and then three months later said, hey. I'm actually gonna leave and start a company. Everybody would be like, oh, kinda jerked around that company.

Aaron

00:25:07 – 00:25:22

That that's kinda icky, isn't it? And so at the moment, it felt like the opportunity cost was very, very small because if even half of the companies that I interviewed with came back and were like, hey. Good job, little guy. Way to try. You can come work here.

Aaron

00:25:22 – 00:25:32

I'd be like, great. That's fine. And so that was a big saving grace was I don't think I'm giving up terribly much if I, like, give it a go for three to six months and then bomb.

Adam

00:25:33 – 00:25:41

Yeah. And you live, you know, you live a fairly online life. Right? You make videos. Those videos go on the Internet.

Adam

00:25:41 – 00:26:11

You're all over Twitter. You know, that comes with a lot of pings and notifications and comments, although we know never read the comments, all hours of the day. You also get pings all hours of the day from your kids. How do you figure out how to stay present with your family when there's, like, this twenty four seven sort of Yeah. Online life happening adjacent to you?

Aaron

00:26:12 – 00:26:25

Yeah. It's it's very hard, and I'm still not terribly good at it. And I've had to institute some policies and devices to help me. So I have a device where it's like a physical little it's just a little shtick. You know?

Aaron

00:26:25 – 00:26:36

It's this thing. And so it's a NFC device. And if I tap my phone on it, it locks Twitter. It locks YouTube Studio. I don't have a problem with Reddit or Instagram or, like, YouTube itself.

Aaron

00:26:36 – 00:26:54

I have a problem with Twitter and probably YouTube Studio where I can, like, respond to comments and stuff. And so until I physically go back to the device and tap my phone again, I cannot access those apps. Woah. And so that's very helpful. Like, it's like realizing how much of an addict you are because you're, like, walking around and you're like, oh, man.

Aaron

00:26:54 – 00:27:00

I gotta open Twitter. And you open it, and it's like, you can't. It shows this big, you've been blocked. It's like, oh, yeah. I forgot I did that.

Aaron

00:27:00 – 00:27:14

I did that to myself. Well, let me open it again in four seconds and see if anything has changed. So that's really helpful. I try to keep pretty strict boundaries around, like, things I miss and things I don't miss. I don't miss putting the kids to bed.

Aaron

00:27:14 – 00:27:33

Like, I just don't miss it. And so if I'm in crunch time, which much of last year was crunch time, I'll go home and put the kids to bed and then come back to the office. Like Mhmm. There are things I'm willing to sacrifice, which is, like, my own sleep, sometimes my own health. But, like, I'm not willing to have my kids grow up without a dad because dad was busy.

Aaron

00:27:34 – 00:27:48

And so I try to draw those boundaries pretty tightly. There's also a lot of things that I just don't do, which, like, right now, I don't care about. Like, I don't watch sports. That part doesn't bother me. That takes up a huge amount of some people's time, and I understand that they like that very much.

Aaron

00:27:48 – 00:28:02

I don't care about it, but I also don't have time for it. But that also bleeds into things that I I would like to do. I would love to watch Severance. I would love that. I just now is not a good time for me to watch a lot of prestige television.

Aaron

00:28:02 – 00:28:25

Like, it's just not a good time in my life to do that. I would love to play video games. I haven't played a video game in a decade, but, like, I would love to have the time to just sit down and play Factorio for six hours. But, like, right now, that's just not a good time in my life. And so I'm super willing to sacrifice things I don't really care about for things that I really do care about.

Aaron

00:28:25 – 00:28:48

And on the side of things I really do care about, of course, is my family, but it's also my business. So it's not just like, well, you know, I'm only gonna sacrifice things for my family. No. There are things I want to do professionally, and I'm willing to sacrifice some leisure time. I work too much, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of that leisure time to get to where I think we can get and where I want to be and where I want my family to be.

Aaron

00:28:48 – 00:28:51

I'm willing to sacrifice severance for that.

Adam

00:28:51 – 00:29:02

I mean, all these things are important. Like you mentioned, you would love to watch severance. It's a great show. I've heard It will be there in five years for you to stream or ten years or whatever. Mhmm.

Adam

00:29:02 – 00:29:07

Fifteen years, hopefully, unless we're it's all implanted in our brain. Right. We just close our eyes

Aaron

00:29:07 – 00:29:07

and watch it. Exactly.

Adam

00:29:07 – 00:29:21

But it sounds like you're really good about kind of compartmentalizing these things and saying, these are important, but I'm gonna set them over here, and I'm gonna not do them. These are the things that are important that I am gonna do. And right now, it's family and we're building your business.

Aaron

00:29:21 – 00:29:22

Mhmm.

Adam

00:29:22 – 00:29:22

Aaron

00:29:22 – 00:29:31

I I appreciate that characterization. I am getting better at it. I will take your you're very good at it, and I will counter with I am getting there. But I'm trying very hard, which I think is

Adam

00:29:31 – 00:29:50

very important. Totally. Totally. If you could rewind the clock three ish years to before your first set of twins was born Mhmm. And you bumped into younger Aaron or perhaps you're commenting on his YouTube videos Mhmm.

Adam

00:29:50 – 00:29:56

What advice would you give the younger version of yourself about becoming a dad?

Aaron

00:29:56 – 00:30:21

I think my first instinct was, like, prepare yourself professionally to become a dad. And I think, and this is obviously colored by what I've gone through. And so I would say like, build up your personal assets before you become a dad. Because back then, I had just an embarrassment of riches when it came to time. I was just like, who knows?

Aaron

00:30:21 – 00:30:32

Maybe I'll play Factorio for six hours. Maybe I'll watch Severance. I can do whatever I want, and somehow it's still only 11AM on a Saturday. Now that's just, like, completely gone. That's just completely gone.

Aaron

00:30:33 – 00:31:14

So on the, like, prepare to become a dad professional side, I would say, like, build up your portfolio of personal brand assets or personal, like, income producing assets, for sure. On the, like, soft side of, like, being a dad, I actually have felt, like, very prepared and qualified for that. I think some of that is what Jennifer and I went through leading up to it. I think we were very communicative and in tune with each other and on the same page and learned, like, how each other processes grief and how each other processes hard times. And, like, we learned a lot in that crucible of trying to get pregnant and then trying to, you know, deliver these babies.

Aaron

00:31:14 – 00:31:34

And so I think that was great preparation for us. If we hadn't gone through that, I would say probably spend more time talking to your wife and figuring out, like, how are we gonna do this together? How are we going to be yes, how are we going to be flirty and romantic and love each other, but how are we gonna be teammates? Like, what's the strategy? What are you gonna handle?

Aaron

00:31:34 – 00:31:47

What am I gonna handle? How are we gonna handle, like, you think you should go to this school? I think you should go to that school. How do we figure out how we're gonna, like, come to these agreements? Because we are equal partners in these decisions, and we have to act like it.

Aaron

00:31:47 – 00:32:17

Like, I need to hear what you're saying, and you need to hear what I'm saying. And how do we get to this solution? And so I fortunately am just so grateful that Jennifer and I are very good at that, and I think a lot of that came from a lot of the hardships that we went through. So if we hadn't gone through that, I would have said that. But for just like a just like a naive everyman advice for somebody about to become a dad, I would say just like, Don't be afraid to, like, fully experience it.

Aaron

00:32:17 – 00:32:41

There are gonna be times you wish that you weren't experiencing it at all. And that is okay. Like, I see two opposing sides online often, which is, like, becoming a parent is wonderful and therefore it's easy and everyone should do it. And then the other side is becoming a parent is very hard and you should only do it if you're a % sure. And I feel like both of those are a little bit caricatures.

Aaron

00:32:41 – 00:33:15

And I think the reality is there are days, there are minutes in a day where you will go from this is a wonderful, amazing, and this is incredibly hard and I don't wanna do it. And I think you just need to be prepared to experience all of that in a day. And then also realize at the end of the day, you're gonna put your kid down and you are that kid's entire world. And, like, it is okay to feel a complex amount of emotions about that thing, but just remember that you hung the moon and stars in that kid's eyes, and that's your responsibility. Yes.

Aaron

00:33:15 – 00:33:23

It's gonna suck. You will sit at the top of the stairs and cry, but in the morning, you're gonna wake the kid up, and you are the hero, and that's worth, like, continuing on.

Adam

00:33:23 – 00:33:31

Can you remember a time and a day where you, like, went from, this is the best thing ever, to, oh my god. This is the worst thing ever.

Aaron

00:33:31 – 00:33:37

Yeah. What day is today? Tuesday? So Monday, Sunday, Saturday. It's it's very, like yes.

Aaron

00:33:37 – 00:33:52

It's it's almost it's almost every day. They're not usually they don't vacillate that much, but every day there is a part where I'm like, this is incredible. And then there's a part usually around dinner time where it's like, boy, can you guys just, like, hang on for one second? Just like Yeah. It's a minute.

Aaron

00:33:53 – 00:34:08

Nobody scream at each other. Like there's enough Cheerios for everybody. Just hang on a second. But, yeah, there's like times when my little girl who's three and a half will just be coloring and look up and say, I love you, daddy. And I'm like, what am I supposed to do here?

Aaron

00:34:08 – 00:34:25

Like, how can anything ever be better than this? Mhmm. And then there are times when, like, I'm trying to discipline her and we we don't spank and so there are tools are very few. I'm trying to discipline her and I'm like, getting in her face and I'm like, Emilia, you need to understand. And she thinks it's the funniest thing in the world.

Aaron

00:34:25 – 00:34:44

And it makes me furious. I'm like, I'm trying to be serious, like, intimidating dad, and I'm not gonna strike you, but, like, you think it's hysterical. And it's like, that makes my blood boil. And so, yeah, it's up and it's up and down every single day. But at the end of the day, I walk out of that room, and they always say, I love you, daddy.

Aaron

00:34:44 – 00:34:46

And it's like, well, can't beat it.

Adam

00:34:46 – 00:34:57

Pretty amazing. You've won. Yep. Yep. So with four kids, do you have a different parenting style that you kinda bring to each kid, or do you have to, you know, navigate each kid differently?

Adam

00:34:57 – 00:35:01

I don't know if each set of twins is kind of very alike or different or whatever.

Aaron

00:35:01 – 00:35:02

Yeah. How do

Adam

00:35:02 – 00:35:03

you think about that?

Aaron

00:35:03 – 00:35:19

Yeah. So for the younger two, it's more keep aliving and less parenting at this point. You know? Because they're one, and, you know, they've started to walk and laugh and babble, and so we're getting somewhere. But for them, it's just like, yeah, it's kinda all babies are pretty much the same.

Aaron

00:35:19 – 00:35:43

Let's be honest. But for the older two, they're very, very different, and they actually were different the moment they came out of the womb. They were different, discreet people, and their personalities have carried through to this day. So they came out of the womb, and Amelia, our girl, was headstrong and fierce and screamed. And our boy came out, and he was soft and gentle, and he just whimpered.

Aaron

00:35:43 – 00:36:11

And that has carried through to today. Our girl is very headstrong and powerful, and our boy is very gentle and pure and sweet. And so, yeah, the parenting style is very different. And each child needs encouragement in a different direction, and each child needs restraint in a different direction. And so it's a matter of encouraging our boy to be brave and, like, don't lose your gentleness, but you can stand up to your sister.

Aaron

00:36:11 – 00:36:43

And encouraging our girl to be gentle and, like, don't lose your power, but you can also, like, bring people under your wing and protect them. And so it depends on where each of them are on these different vectors that dictates which way we need to push them. Right? And so we're gonna teach our girl different things because she's naturally gifted in certain areas, and we're gonna teach our boy different things because he's naturally gifted in certain areas. But we're gonna teach them all, like, what we believe to be, you know, pure, noble, and right in, like, behaving yourself.

Aaron

00:36:43 – 00:36:48

And so there are some things that are common, but given their bent, there are some things that are very different.

Adam

00:36:49 – 00:36:56

Yeah. Have you developed anything that you would describe as, like, a framework or a guardrail that you fall back on as a parent?

Aaron

00:36:57 – 00:37:14

I don't know that we have any discreet homegrown frameworks at this point. I think Jennifer and I both have the privilege of being raised very well by parents that we are proud to call parents. And there are, of course, certain things that we were raised with that we have changed, and, like, that is every generation.

Adam

00:37:14 – 00:37:14

Sure.

Aaron

00:37:14 – 00:37:44

But fortunately for us, we can fall back on a lot of the ways that we were raised, which is a privilege because that is not true for everyone. We also, like I mentioned earlier, we are church attenders. We are bible believing Christians, and so we fall back on a lot of that raising children in the way that they should go. And then when they're old, they won't depart from it. And so a lot of our core fundamental beliefs are informed by the way that we were raised, which both were raised in Christian households, the church that we attend, the Bible that we read, which is the Bible.

Adam

00:37:44 – 00:37:44

Mhmm.

Aaron

00:37:44 – 00:37:55

So a lot of those things kind of lay the the bedrock foundation for, like, okay. Directionally, which way should we be going? And then we'll figure out the specifics kind of as we go.

Adam

00:37:55 – 00:38:19

I love that. Something to fall back on, like, as a baseline foundation. So I have found that partnership is super important when you have kids and when you have many kids and you are outnumbered, such as yourself and Jennifer, but also hard to agree a % of the time. Mhmm. What's an area that you and her don't necessarily agree on or maybe you have slightly different perspectives?

Aaron

00:38:20 – 00:38:37

Yeah. I mean, we can we can take discipline, which I mentioned earlier. I was spanked growing up, and I hold no grudges. I turned out fine. I was spanked appropriately when I, you know, directly lied to my parents or, like, did something they explicitly told me not to.

Aaron

00:38:37 – 00:38:45

And so growing up, I was like, yeah. People get spanked. It's, like, not a big deal. Of course, we entered this day and age, and it's, like, a big hot topic. Right.

Aaron

00:38:45 – 00:38:58

And so I go in with kind of a lukewarm, yeah. And, you know, people get spanked. And Jennifer comes in with a kind of a lukewarm, I don't think we're gonna spank. And so that was a thing where we had to figure out, like, alright. Well, what do we believe?

Aaron

00:38:58 – 00:39:08

Like, the two of us, what do we believe? Because I grew up this way. She grew up that way. They're kinda they're close, but they're not the same. And we have to make, like, a binary decision.

Aaron

00:39:08 – 00:39:21

Are we gonna do it, or are we not gonna do it? And so that's illustrative of, like, all decisions is what does Jennifer believe? What do I believe? Where are the commonalities? And if there are differences, do they matter?

Aaron

00:39:21 – 00:39:56

And so that was the thing that came down on the spanking was I believe that I grew up being spanked and it was fine, but Jennifer had very good points about, like, the potential damage that it could cause and the potential rupturing of trust between a parent striking a child. And does the child understand that, like, this is for discipline out of love, not because I'm mad at you. Right. Open question. And so I felt like our differences, she had better points, and I didn't have a lot of good points except for, seems cool to me, which is like classic guy.

Aaron

00:39:56 – 00:40:06

Right? And she had all these well reasoned points. And so I said, your points are better than mine. We will go we will go with your points. That one is pretty indicative of how we've handled a lot of it.

Aaron

00:40:06 – 00:40:10

It's like, okay. Is there a disagreement here? Yes. Alright. Let me hear your side.

Aaron

00:40:11 – 00:40:31

And I will say, and this is just the greatest gift. We are good faith arguers. Like, I believe that she is listening to me and she believes that I am listening to her and it doesn't become a us, like, against each other. It becomes, alright. We're both on the same side staring down at a problem and we have a different approach.

Aaron

00:40:31 – 00:40:42

Let's talk about it. And so, like, the whole, alright. What is your point of view on spanking is fine. I get to hear her entire point of view without like, well, actually, hold on. No.

Aaron

00:40:42 – 00:40:49

No. I I had a friend and it's like, okay. I heard you say this. I believe this. I actually don't believe that.

Aaron

00:40:49 – 00:41:00

Here's what I believe. You go now. And it goes back to her. And it's like, hey, we can figure out anything with this. And there have been times where we've, like, come to an impasse and be like, I I don't know yet.

Aaron

00:41:01 – 00:41:09

I don't know yet. We need to talk about this later. And there have been times where we're just, like, totally on the same page. Like, we wanna send all of our kids to public school. We live in a neighborhood.

Aaron

00:41:09 – 00:41:19

We want our kids to be a part of the community here. We wanna be a part of the community here. We want them to be in the world with the people. And it was like, oh, we both agree? Yeah.

Aaron

00:41:19 – 00:41:23

Alright. Cool. Done. Next. And so some of the like, those are really nice.

Aaron

00:41:23 – 00:41:34

But, of course, you know, even just the other day, I put Simon, our oldest boy, in the car seat, and he was wearing a puffy vest. And Jennifer came out and she it was like, he needs to take that off for the car seat. And I was like, no. He doesn't. Like, it's a vest.

Aaron

00:41:34 – 00:41:41

Like, who cares? What's what's the big deal? She said, I'm gonna take that off. And I said, okay. I disagree, but that's totally fine.

Aaron

00:41:41 – 00:41:52

It was one of those things that doesn't matter. I felt a little bit like a dummy because I was like, you know, I know I'm supposed to take off coats. I saw the vest and thought, that's not a that's not a coat. Whatever. I'll put them in.

Aaron

00:41:52 – 00:42:04

And then I got, you know, not reprimanded, but I think I was in the wrong and it kinda made me sour. And then I was like, you know what? Doesn't super matter. Yeah. I forgot that this vest counts as a coat and should have been taken off.

Aaron

00:42:04 – 00:42:15

She was right. That's okay. That was on Sunday going to church. I felt kinda like a dummy. And that, like, put me in a bad mood and then I realized, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Aaron, you're the one who's wrong here.

Aaron

00:42:15 – 00:42:27

Like, she didn't do anything. You did the bad thing. Yeah. And she, of course, handled it with grace, but it's one of those things where it's like every every day or every week, there are things where it's like, oh, we don't fully agree. Let's figure it out.

Adam

00:42:27 – 00:42:31

Yeah. Okay. I love that. Good compromise. Okay.

Adam

00:42:31 – 00:42:40

I have two questions for you about some stories that I read k. About things you did. Actually, maybe three. I have three stories I want you to tell.

Aaron

00:42:40 – 00:42:44

Let's cut it off at three because I I don't know what happens when we get further down the list there.

Adam

00:42:44 – 00:42:59

The first one is I'm fascinated by you mentioned going to the office, and you work for yourself. And so Mhmm. I happen to know Mhmm. What you did and created as an office space. But tell me about the approach you took because you have a wonderful background right now.

Adam

00:42:59 – 00:43:12

I'm sure you're in Thank you. The office. I'm just curious about the approach you took to deciding it was time to have an office space and what you did to kind of set this up for yourself.

Aaron

00:43:13 – 00:43:21

Yeah. So the foreshadowing is this is not an office. This is not a green screen. This is a real place. I'm in a real place, but it is not an office.

Aaron

00:43:21 – 00:43:44

So we're at the spot in in history where it's maybe, you know, one month into having the second set of twins. I'm still employed, and I'm like, I can't work out of the house. Like, if I'm supposed to make videos, I can't do that with four kids under three because I'm either gonna record during nap time, should they nap, or I'm gonna record after bedtime. And, like, that's no way to live. Right?

Aaron

00:43:45 – 00:43:54

And so I quickly decided, alright. I gotta get an office. Maybe the company will cover it. And I reached out to my boss while I'm on paternity. I reached out to her, and I was like, listen.

Aaron

00:43:54 – 00:43:59

This isn't gonna work. Can I get a stipend for an office space? And she was like, sure. Sounds great. So we're off to a good start.

Aaron

00:43:59 – 00:44:20

I've got a stipend for an office space. I start looking around Dallas and office space is relatively expensive. They're very proud of their office space here. But we also build, build, build here in Texas, and so there are apartment complexes everywhere, including three minutes down the road from our house. And so I'm like, well, what the heck?

Aaron

00:44:20 – 00:44:31

Let's be a crazy guy. And I go tour an apartment, and I get the cost for it. And it's like, this is actually not that much more than, an office space. It's got a kitchen. It's got a bathroom.

Aaron

00:44:31 – 00:44:47

It's got a pool that the family uses. It's got a gym downstairs. So where I am sitting right now would traditionally traditionally be called a bedroom. However, there's no bed in here. In fact, this wall behind me does not exist.

Aaron

00:44:48 – 00:44:59

I built a false two by four wall that covers up the windows. So I'm in the bedroom. There are windows that overlook the courtyard where the pool is, and I thought, what do I need windows for? I'm a computer guy. I live in a cave.

Aaron

00:44:59 – 00:45:13

And so I built a two by four wall, and then I built this backdrop behind me. And so this is where I do all of my, like, recording. And then in the living room out there, I do have a sliding glass door. So I'll go out there and work. I have a desk out there as well.

Aaron

00:45:13 – 00:45:33

So if I need to see that the world still exists, I'll go out there and work a little bit. But, like, I have a full bathroom to myself, a full kitchen to myself. And Jennifer and the au pair and the babies, they come and use the pool, and I have a gym downstairs. And it's like, why why doesn't everyone do this? And it's it's just the best thing ever.

Aaron

00:45:33 – 00:45:34

I love it so much.

Adam

00:45:34 – 00:45:39

I think that works marginally better in Dallas than it would work, say, in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Aaron

00:45:39 – 00:45:42

Oh, probably. Probably. Yeah. It's a test. Yeah.

Aaron

00:45:42 – 00:45:43

A little bit.

Adam

00:45:43 – 00:45:46

Very cool. Also, you don't want the backlighting lighting when you're on camera. Right?

Aaron

00:45:46 – 00:45:56

Exactly. You know? This was the correct orientation for the shot, and I couldn't have a bunch of lights No. Especially variable light. A cloud goes by and the whole room gets dark, and it's like, f.

Aaron

00:45:56 – 00:45:57

I gotta reshoot that video.

Adam

00:45:57 – 00:46:15

Yeah. So the second story is on your Twitter feed, you had this hilarious post about importance of going to the gym and things like that. And then there was a photo of you asleep in a chair at the gym. Oh. So tell me how that transpired.

Aaron

00:46:16 – 00:46:32

Yeah. So this was we have a local YMCA that I frequent a lot, and this was maybe, like, a month or two after the new ones came. And so I'm just, like, absolutely wrecked. I'm just devastatingly tired. And so I went to the gym.

Aaron

00:46:32 – 00:46:43

It was a Saturday. I took the big kids to the gym and dropped them off in childcare, which is, like, you know, I don't know what we pay for the y. It's it's like $50 a month, and you get, like, an hour and a half of childcare.

Adam

00:46:43 – 00:46:44

Yeah. It's amazing. Like, the

Aaron

00:46:44 – 00:46:45

best thing in the world.

Adam

00:46:45 – 00:46:46

It's amazing.

Aaron

00:46:46 – 00:47:02

So we love the YMCA. So I took the kids to the y, dropped them off, went and sat in a chair, and I was like, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do a little bit of work. I'm still on paternity, but I'm like, I'm gonna do a little bit of writing. I sat down and I was like, nope. And I bent over and I put my head down and fully fully passed out, fell asleep.

Aaron

00:47:03 – 00:47:11

And so then I wake up. I'm like, oh, that was awesome. I go get the kids. I go home. And Jennifer shows me this picture on on her phone when I get home.

Aaron

00:47:11 – 00:47:29

It's a picture of me asleep. And I'm like, what? How did you get that? And her sister was at the gym and saw me sleeping in the chair and took a picture and sent it to the whole family. And, of course, the whole family is just so kind and, like, oh, poor Aaron just really needed his sleep.

Aaron

00:47:29 – 00:47:43

And so it was just too hysterical to not tweet. So I did this, like, real thought leadership post about, like, hey. When things are hard, it's still really important to prioritize your health. That's why I still went to the gym this morning, and the picture is me asleep in a chair.

Adam

00:47:43 – 00:47:49

I love that. I love that. Also, can we talk for a second about your sister-in-law narking on you to the whole

Aaron

00:47:49 – 00:48:01

family too? I know. What the heck? There's actually one other time that that same sister-in-law was at the gym, and I was again asleep in the chair. And she came up and, like, tapped me on the shoulder, and it freaked me out.

Aaron

00:48:01 – 00:48:08

Like, I just, like, woke up with a start. I'm like, listen. You gotta leave me alone. If you see me at the gym, whether I'm sleeping or running, leave me alone.

Adam

00:48:09 – 00:48:24

Just pretend you don't know me. Yeah. That's the strategy. Last story for you. I saw I don't know if this was your most recent birthday or one recently, but I saw that you gave yourself or asked for your birthday.

Aaron

00:48:24 – 00:48:27

Well, yay. Yeah. Well, we gotta be careful with the who gave it. Yeah. Exactly.

Aaron

00:48:27 – 00:48:28

I'll get there.

Adam

00:48:28 – 00:48:35

Yeah. So I saw that you had a solo staycation. Staycation. Two parts to that. Solo

Aaron

00:48:35 – 00:48:36

Mhmm.

Adam

00:48:36 – 00:48:40

And also staycation. Tell me how this plan came together. Yeah.

Aaron

00:48:40 – 00:48:56

Husbands of the pod, do not suggest for yourself that you do a solo staycation. First, gift it to your wife. Say, hey. Do you wanna have a solo staycation at a fancy hotel in our town? I'll take care of the kids.

Aaron

00:48:56 – 00:49:08

You go enjoy. That's step one. Now to step two, my birthday. So my birthday was, you know, a couple weeks ago, a month ago, something. My wife comes in, you know, maybe a week before that, a week before my birthday.

Aaron

00:49:08 – 00:49:21

And she's like, hey. I was thinking for your birthday, do you want to go stay at the Jewel, which is a fancy hotel here in Dallas? Do you wanna go stay at the Jewel? And I was like, yeah, that'd be amazing. And she was like, I was thinking you could do a solo staycation.

Aaron

00:49:21 – 00:49:36

And I was like, that sounds incredible. So it was her it was her idea. And so I left here so I left I I record a podcast weekly. I recorded it here on Monday morning, and then I was like, I'm out of here. I'm going to the hotel.

Aaron

00:49:36 – 00:49:44

So I left, went down there at, like, noon, got an early check-in. They gave me, like it's Monday in Dallas. There's nobody checking in. Right? So I was like, sure.

Aaron

00:49:44 – 00:49:54

Whatever, guy. So I checked in. The concierge gave me a coupon for two drinks at the bar, $15 drinks. I'm like, I'm the king of the world. And so I start in the coffee shop.

Aaron

00:49:54 – 00:50:17

I brought Calvin and Hobbes. I brought an old comic book, and I sat there, drank my coffee, read Calvin and Hobbes, went upstairs, took a little nap, came down, sat at the bar, had a few cocktails, pulled out my trusty yellow legal pad, and plotted how I'm gonna take over the world. Then I had dinner by myself. The waiter came up, and he was like, so where are you in town from? And I was like, brother, I live here down the street.

Aaron

00:50:18 – 00:50:31

Yeah. From Lake Highlands. And he was like, oh, what, like, what what are you doing here? And I said, we have four kids, and my wife offered this as a birthday present for me to come and stay at this hotel. And so he brought me a glass of whiskey for free.

Aaron

00:50:31 – 00:50:41

He's like, happy birthday. So I'm having a steak. I'm having whiskey. I've got my AirPods in. And then I go up and I plug my computer into their freaking TV, plug it in my AirPods.

Aaron

00:50:41 – 00:51:01

I watch Sicario two on the TV with my AirPods, fall asleep, sleep in, go get breakfast. Just like if you're listen. If you're a spouse listening and you've got small kids at home, this is the best thing you could gift your other spouse is just like a day off, and it was awesome.

Adam

00:51:01 – 00:51:06

Oh, I love that. That sounds so relaxing. I'm glad you got that for yourself, and happy birthday, by the way.

Aaron

00:51:06 – 00:51:08

Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Adam

00:51:08 – 00:51:19

Okay. I have one final question for you before our lightning round. You know, a little bit more of a serious one, which is we talked about this. You live a lot of your life online. Yes.

Adam

00:51:19 – 00:51:28

Technology is like a cornerstone of your life. Your kids are still really young. Maybe in many cases, still too young for technology.

Aaron

00:51:28 – 00:51:29

Mhmm. What do

Adam

00:51:29 – 00:51:43

you envision as the relationship to technology or with technology that you want for your kids? Maybe this is something you and Jennifer have decided together. But as they get older, how do you think about that for them?

Aaron

00:51:43 – 00:52:04

A lot is how I think about it. I think about it a whole lot. So as of now, our kids do not watch TV, and they do not have iPads or screen time or anything like that. They're three and a half, and so it's still a relatively easy thing, I think. I mean, of course, it's hard because, like, boy, I would love for you to watch Bluey instead of just, like, me trying to figure out what I'm gonna do with you for the next, you know, two hours.

Aaron

00:52:04 – 00:52:14

But, like, I feel like that is a profitable thing at this age. We will teach you to color, teach you to use your imagination. I will take you to the wild. I'll take you to the park. Like, that's another thing.

Aaron

00:52:14 – 00:52:41

I'm willing to sacrifice some of my comfort for what I believe is best for them. I don't know that that's objectively true, but I think right now, them not using screens is best for them. Totally open to debate on that, but that's where we've landed. So that is where we're at right now. I think moving forward, a problem, a potential pitfall of that would be becoming Luddites and raising our children in a way that leaves them unprepared for the reality of the world.

Aaron

00:52:41 – 00:53:02

And that is not, I feel, doing my duty as a parent. I need to raise them to be prepared for the world that they will encounter. Part of the problem is I didn't encounter the world that they encountered, and I'm sure our parents felt the same way about the Internet. So we're kinda flying blind, and I guess every generation is. But, like, how do I teach my kids how to interact with an all knowing intelligence?

Aaron

00:53:02 – 00:53:19

How do I teach them, like, hey. Every piece of homework you ever get, you could take a picture of it and give it to a machine and it will answer it for you. I don't think that is good for them. Right? So I don't think that them taking the easy way out is a good thing.

Aaron

00:53:20 – 00:53:47

I also don't think that them not learning to effectively wield the tools at their disposal is a good thing. And so I'm gonna have to come down in the middle somewhere and say, listen, what are the rules of the game? Like, what did your teacher say about this piece of homework? Okay. We are going to explicitly follow those rules because I think it is a good thing for you to recognize authority, understand the rules of the game, and play within the rules of that game.

Aaron

00:53:48 – 00:54:04

On the other hand, what is reality? So I'm not gonna let you cheat on your homework, but how can we use these tools so that you can come out ahead? Like, so you can, like, get ahead in life. And that's what, frankly, as a business owner, that's what I'm trying to do right now. Yeah.

Aaron

00:54:04 – 00:54:27

I'm in the education space, and there's a looming superintelligence. It's like, how much longer is this business gonna be viable? I have to, as an adult, figure out how am I gonna wield these tools to my advantage without betraying myself. And I think, personally, this is an opinion, I think always taking the easy way out is betraying yourself. I think in some cases, it is wrong.

Aaron

00:54:27 – 00:55:12

Like cheating on your homework, I think is like a morally bankrupt thing to do. But more importantly, maybe you're short shifting yourself. You could have gone through a process where you grew and you learned and you, like, came out on the other side smarter and more capable and more resilient and in a better human, and you decided you were gonna take the shortcut, there's nothing noble about that. And so I'm gonna have to try as they get older, Jennifer and I both, we're gonna have to try to find the balance between there are some things that are pure and right and noble, and they suck, and you have to do them. And then there are some ways where you can observe the rules of the game and see what the constraints are and hack your way around it and say like, yep.

Aaron

00:55:12 – 00:55:33

I understand that that's the rules, but watch this. I'm technically within the rules, but I am going to be high leverage. I am going to be a powerful force, and I want to teach them to have that, like, sheer force of will. Because if there's anything that's gotten me to where I am, it's sheer force of will. It's not quitting.

Aaron

00:55:34 – 00:55:57

And so how do I teach them that? I'm not entirely sure yet, but I'm trying to, like, thread this needle between learn it all yourself and don't ever rely on the technology and also rely on the technology such that you gain an advantage, but you also don't betray your soul. And it's like, I don't know, man. But that's kind of the balance we're trying to find.

Adam

00:55:57 – 00:56:12

Yeah. It's it's this balance of how do you leverage these things as tools without robbing yourself of the learning outcome, right, or the ability to learn. So Yes. I think we'll check back in in a few years and find out how you're doing on this journey.

Aaron

00:56:12 – 00:56:13

Yeah. We'll see.

Adam

00:56:13 – 00:56:29

Yeah. Okay. Well, my last question for you, Aaron, before lightning round, if people wanna follow along with your journey, learn more about what it's like to be a dad with, a hundred kids under the age of four, how can people follow along or be helpful to you?

Aaron

00:56:30 – 00:56:49

Yeah. I think, like you said, I live a lot of my life online. So Twitter, I'm Aaron d Francis, and I spend a lot of time just tweeting authentically over there. You can also find probably links to everything else at aaronfrancis.com. I have YouTube, podcasts, all that stuff, but Twitter is probably the best, if not aaronfrancis.com.

Adam

00:56:49 – 00:57:01

Well, I will send as many people as possible to your Twitter feed because I certainly had a wonderful time perusing it. It was fun for me, and I got some great stories for this podcast. Yeah. I'm so glad. Alright.

Adam

00:57:01 – 00:57:15

Well, let's do lightning round, Aaron. There's only one rule for lightning round, and that is I ask you a question and you say, the very first thing that comes to mind and we move on, it's a judgment free zone. So Great. I love it. Here we go.

Adam

00:57:15 – 00:57:19

What is the most indispensable parenting product that you have ever purchased?

Aaron

00:57:20 – 00:57:27

Unfortunately and embarrassingly, a minivan. Yeah. We'll come back to that one. Hate that for me.

Adam

00:57:27 – 00:57:31

We'll come back to that one. What is the most useless parenting product you've ever purchased?

Aaron

00:57:32 – 00:57:38

Oh, probably a PPTP. Like, it's you don't stand a chance. Come on. Just go faster.

Adam

00:57:38 – 00:57:46

Kyle Lacey from the podcast, I had him on, I don't know, maybe ten, twenty guests ago. He would disagree with that assessment. He's a big

Aaron

00:57:46 – 00:57:51

fan of the PPTP. Sorry, brother. It's not it's it's not worth it.

Adam

00:57:51 – 00:57:53

Sorry. It's the title of that episode, in fact.

Aaron

00:57:53 – 00:57:55

Yeah. And it's a big miss, Kyle. What

Adam

00:57:57 – 00:57:59

what is your favorite book to read to your kids?

Aaron

00:58:00 – 00:58:16

How to be a pirate is a book that I love to read to our girl. It's about a girl who's left out from the boys playing, and she goes to her grandpa, and her grandpa teaches her how to be a pirate. And it's like a pirate is brave. A pirate is strong. And it's just like, you know, teaches girls girl power.

Aaron

00:58:16 – 00:58:23

So that's my favorite one by far to read to our little girl. Just generally, probably Richard Scarry. There's just a million things to look at.

Adam

00:58:23 – 00:58:27

Oh, yeah. I've never heard of that pirate book, so I will look to that in the show notes.

Aaron

00:58:27 – 00:58:41

It's great. Her grandpa has he's like an old sailor, and so he's got these big muscles with these cool tattoos. And it's just like, if you ever oh, man. If you have a girl and you feel like she's gonna be left out or the boys are gonna pick on her and just teaching her to it's like Okay. I love it.

Aaron

00:58:41 – 00:58:41

Yeah.

Adam

00:58:41 – 00:58:50

Alright. This may only be relevant to your three and a half year olds, but what is the weirdest thing that you ever found in your kids' pockets or in the washing machine?

Aaron

00:58:51 – 00:59:06

We haven't had too many just, like, mind blowingly weird things. We've got lots of, like, you got Chapstick. Like, what how do you have Chapstick all over your face? And then you she pulls out a thing of Chapstick out of her pocket. And you're like, where did you even get where did you get Chapstick?

Aaron

00:59:06 – 00:59:19

Why is there Chapstick all over your face? And so it's it's weird little stuff like that. Rocks, of course, bugs, sticks, all the normal kid stuff, but the ChapStick is just she's just I don't know if she sees her mom put it on or something, but she just loves the ChapStick.

Adam

00:59:19 – 00:59:20

Well, maybe it smells good. Who knows?

Aaron

00:59:20 – 00:59:22

I don't know. It's so weird.

Adam

00:59:22 – 00:59:26

Okay. True or false? There is only one correct way to load a dishwasher.

Aaron

00:59:27 – 00:59:44

True, but we have not found it yet. There's absolutely you know who has found it? Our au pair who's a German. She knows the correct and the most efficient way to do everything, and we're just like, oh, how did you do that? Oh, okay.

Aaron

00:59:44 – 00:59:50

Cool. Taking some holiday. There's a correct way. Jennifer and I, disagree on what is correct, but Jasmine, she's she's the one. She's got it.

Aaron

00:59:50 – 00:59:51

Yeah. Okay.

Adam

00:59:51 – 00:59:55

Cool. What is your signature dad superpower?

Aaron

00:59:56 – 01:00:16

I think I'm very imaginative, and I think my kids really enjoy that. I am not afraid to look stupid. I'm not afraid to be a silly guy, and I make up songs and dances. And I think I think they just think I'm very, very funny, and I think that's that's my superpowers. I'm very imaginative.

Adam

01:00:16 – 01:00:19

I hope that continues for you well into their teenage years.

Aaron

01:00:19 – 01:00:26

We'll see. I know. I'm in this glory phase where everything I do is funny and it's gonna just turn on me so fast.

Adam

01:00:26 – 01:00:32

What is the crazier block of time in your house? 6AM to 8AM or 6PM to 8PM.

Aaron

01:00:33 – 01:00:40

Get real. 6PM. No. 05:30 to seven is it is a war zone. Yes.

Aaron

01:00:40 – 01:00:51

It is just like everybody's at the end of their rope. Everybody's hungry. Everybody's tired. Everybody's got these grievances from throughout the day. Well, Simon said, but my favorite color is red.

Aaron

01:00:51 – 01:00:57

And I'm like, you both can have the same favorite color. It's okay. Love that. There's plenty to go around. So yeah.

Aaron

01:00:57 – 01:00:58

Definitely nighttime.

Adam

01:00:58 – 01:01:01

Avoid the Francis household between the hour of 05:30 and seven.

Aaron

01:01:01 – 01:01:12

Or or in reverse, please come help between 05:30 and 7PM. That would be amazing. Okay. Swings or slides? For me or for the kids?

Aaron

01:01:12 – 01:01:21

I mean, you pick. For me, swing. I love a swing. The freedom. I'm a little claustrophobic, so you get in one of those tunnel slides and it's all hot and stinky, and it's like, that's not for me.

Aaron

01:01:21 – 01:01:23

Yeah. The kids like slides. Okay.

Adam

01:01:23 – 01:01:25

What is your go to dad wardrobe?

Aaron

01:01:27 – 01:01:40

I mean, you're looking at it. Literally, every single day, I wear a black t shirt and black Vuari jogger pants and a pair of Nikes. That is, like, fundamentally every video I've ever been on, it's a black t shirt.

Adam

01:01:40 – 01:01:42

So Yeah. That's your dad core outfit.

Aaron

01:01:42 – 01:01:43

That's what you got.

Adam

01:01:44 – 01:01:46

Okay. How many parenting books do you have in your house?

Aaron

01:01:47 – 01:01:48

All of them.

Adam

01:01:48 – 01:01:50

How many parenting books have you

Aaron

01:01:50 – 01:01:51

read them?

Adam

01:01:53 – 01:01:55

You anticipated my question. None of them? I knew it.

Aaron

01:01:55 – 01:02:08

Yeah. I will say, the one educational material that was indispensable for twins and probably singletons is taking care of babies. The woman's name is Cara, so c a r a, taking care of babies.

Adam

01:02:08 – 01:02:08

Okay.

Aaron

01:02:08 – 01:02:21

And it was super helpful on, like, getting them to sleep through the night. All of our kids slept through the night at, like, two or three months old. Amazing. And so it when crucial when you've got that many. And so taking care of babies is good.

Aaron

01:02:21 – 01:02:27

But of the books, I haven't yeah. I'm sure Jennifer's read many, but I have not. I've okay.

Adam

01:02:27 – 01:02:31

How many baby foods have you tried, and which one is your favorite?

Aaron

01:02:32 – 01:02:43

Baby foods? Gosh. Probably zero. I mean, I'm I'm a pretty it would be pejorative to say I'm a pretty picky eater. So instead, I will say I'm a very specific eater.

Aaron

01:02:43 – 01:02:53

Okay. So once we once we reach toddlerhood, chicken nuggets, graham crackers, goldfish, I'm on board. But, like, mashed peas and carrots? Forget.

Adam

01:02:53 – 01:02:53

Not for you.

Aaron

01:02:53 – 01:03:13

Not gonna happen. What is your favorite kids' movie? Oh, you know, don't have a lot to draw on here because they don't watch they don't watch TV. So I've missed a lot of, like, the horrible ones. I will say one time, Simon got sick and had to miss his school Christmas, like, extravaganza.

Aaron

01:03:14 – 01:03:36

And so I brought him up here to the office, and we set up a projector against that wall. And we watched Burl Ives, like, 1950 Rudolph movie. And it was he had the best time. He's talked about it ever since. And so there's something about that one that holds a special place in my heart because it's like, yeah, me and Buddy, like, we got croissants and watched it at dad's office, and that was a lot of fun.

Aaron

01:03:36 – 01:03:36

Awesome.

Adam

01:03:36 – 01:03:42

What is the worst experience you've ever had assembling a toy or a piece of children's furniture?

Aaron

01:03:43 – 01:03:45

Cribs. Easy. Easy. Easy. Easy.

Aaron

01:03:45 – 01:03:55

Easy. Setting up two cribs. And the problem with cribs is, like, don't mess up or you'll kill your baby. And you're like, I what do you mean? Like, I've never done this before.

Aaron

01:03:56 – 01:04:04

So, yeah, that was awful. I actually had two two friends come over, and it still took us, like, two or three hours to set up these two cribs. Oh, wow.

Adam

01:04:04 – 01:04:11

Okay. What nostalgic movie that is a favorite of yours can you just not wait to force your kids to watch with you?

Aaron

01:04:12 – 01:04:37

There's just something pure and Americana about the sandlot. Like, it's just, like, kids running around unsupervised, getting into a little bit of trouble, but not too much, having fun, making their dreams come true. Like, that's the kind of thing. So Sandlot specifically, but just generally that genre of, like it almost captures the magic of, like, what it feels like to be young. Mhmm.

Aaron

01:04:37 – 01:04:40

And that's the kind of stuff that I'm excited for them to watch. Okay.

Adam

01:04:41 – 01:04:49

I don't know if you've taken any long road trips with the age of your kids, but have you developed any dad hacks for road trips or car trips?

Aaron

01:04:50 – 01:05:07

You know, we flew to California once with the little one or the now older ones when they were, like, one and a half or two, and our I think our best hack is to not do that again. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of it. We we kinda that's that's literally the last trip we took with with kids.

Adam

01:05:07 – 01:05:07

My next question.

Aaron

01:05:07 – 01:05:09

I don't have any hacks.

Adam

01:05:09 – 01:05:17

It's amazing not do it again. That that's a good one. My next question was gonna be, have you taken the entire family on an airplane yet? And do you have a strategy

Aaron

01:05:17 – 01:05:19

for this? Absolutely not.

Adam

01:05:19 – 01:05:23

Yeah. No freaking way. It sounds like the strategy is never.

Aaron

01:05:23 – 01:05:37

Yeah. So before the new twins came, Jennifer and I booked an Airbnb in Vermont to, like, get out of the Texas heat for, like, three or four weeks. It was just like, hey, we gotta get out of here. You're pregnant with twins. There's nothing to do.

Aaron

01:05:37 – 01:05:55

Let's go. And so I drove from Texas to Vermont, and then Jennifer and my parents flew up to Vermont. And so they had three adults against two kids, so that was that was fine. And then they all flew back down, you know, many weeks later, and I drove back down. But yeah.

Aaron

01:05:55 – 01:06:02

And no way have we taken the four kids anywhere beyond, you know, five mile radius.

Adam

01:06:02 – 01:06:03

That's gonna be years

Aaron

01:06:03 – 01:06:13

before that happens. Years. And I gotta get a sprinter van and get it all decked out. Yeah. Because there's no way I'm putting four kids under, I don't know, eight, 10, six, whatever, on an airplane?

Aaron

01:06:13 – 01:06:14

Forget about it. No.

Adam

01:06:14 – 01:06:16

Okay. Well, this brings me

Aaron

01:06:16 – 01:06:53

to my very last question, which you alluded to in question number one. What is the Aaron Francis take on minivans? Devastatingly embarrassing and infinitely practical. It is it is like, if they if they went into the lab with the charge, make the most embarrassing, most useful thing you could possibly make, the minivan comes out the other side. So we, like, we have a Honda Odyssey, and the reason we got the Honda Odyssey is because they have the ability to remove the middle seat, which makes some captain's chairs, you know, in the in the front.

Aaron

01:06:53 – 01:07:21

So captain's chairs. But the captain's chairs slide left to right. And so you can have we're in this really weird situation where we have four kids in car seats. Right? And so you put the two little ones in the captain's chairs, and then you shove one of the captain's chairs over, and big kids and big adults can climb in the back to buckle everybody in instead of having to go squeeze between, like, the shotgun and the the front captain's like, it's just never gonna happen.

Aaron

01:07:21 – 01:07:30

So the minivan is really embarrassing to, like, drive around and be like, what's up y'all? But it's just incredibly practical.

Adam

01:07:31 – 01:07:35

Who is the driving force behind it's time to get a minivan?

Aaron

01:07:36 – 01:07:50

Both of us. I listen to this. There's a woman, a YouTuber named the car mom, and all she does is, like, review cars from the point of view of a mom. Right? And she offers these consultations, and it's, like, $50 for a thirty minute call.

Aaron

01:07:50 – 01:07:58

And I was like, ah, absolutely. And so I bought a call with her, and I got on the phone. I was like, here's the deal. Here's what we've got. And she said, you have two options.

Aaron

01:07:59 – 01:08:20

Honda Odyssey or if you want an SUV, the, like, Ford Explorer extended edition or whatever. And I talked to Jennifer, and she's like, I'm not picking kids up and, like, putting them in a Ford Explorer expedition or whatever. And so that left the Honda Odyssey. That was it. She was like, these are your only options if you need to get to four children to physically buckle them in.

Aaron

01:08:20 – 01:08:23

These are your only two options. And so we went with the Honda Odyssey.

Adam

01:08:23 – 01:08:34

Oh, lovely. I also recently learned, little known fact about the minivan, it also helps you when kids can't open a door and swing it into the car next

Aaron

01:08:34 – 01:08:34

to you.

Adam

01:08:34 – 01:08:41

I believe so. Pretty important probably as they get to be, like, four, five, you know, 12 The other the like mine.

Aaron

01:08:41 – 01:08:53

The other thing is for whatever reason, you can get everyone in the car and shut the doors and then figure it out. Right? So you can, like if it's raining, get everybody in the car including one adult in the back and then we'll get everybody buckled.

Adam

01:08:53 – 01:08:53

Yeah.

Aaron

01:08:53 – 01:09:09

If you're in a a park if you're my wife and you're in a parking lot and it's a little bit scary, you can get everyone in the car, shut the door and lock it, and then you have enough room to, like, move around in there. And so it's just it's like a yeah. It's it's it sucks, but it's really powerful and really great.

Adam

01:09:09 – 01:09:13

Oh, alright. Well, strong endorsement. Yeah. I know. For the many years.

Aaron

01:09:13 – 01:09:14

Kind of. Yeah.

Adam

01:09:14 – 01:09:30

Alright. Well, Aaron, this has been a fantastic conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time and joining me on the pod today, and I wish you and your double sets of children and your wife, Jennifer, all the best. Thank you

Aaron

01:09:30 – 01:09:37

so much for having me, and I'm super grateful not only to be here that that you do this for other dads and other parents to listen to. So thanks for doing this.

Adam

01:09:38 – 01:10:20

Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Aaron Francis. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share, and leave me a review on Apple or Spotify. It'll help other people find this podcast. Startup dad is a Fishman AF production with editing support from Tommy Herron. If you're a startup up founder, leader, or just wanna get better at your job in tech as a growth practitioner, product manager, or executive, you can join a community of over 11,000 subscribers and stay up to date on my thoughts on growth and product by subscribing to the Fishman AF newsletter at www.fishmanafnewsletter.com.

Adam

01:10:20 – 01:10:23

Thanks for listening and see you next week.

Getting Laid Off On Paternity Leave With Twins

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