Aaron Francis

Buckle up and join us on "The Tech Commute Podcast" for a thrilling ride with Aaron Francis! As we cruise through his world of Laravel development, database education, and conference speaking, we'll also explore his exciting side gig as a YouTube content creator. But this isn’t just a tech talk—Aaron’s navigating the fast lanes of parenthood with two sets of twins in tow! Get ready for a dynamic conversation filled with insights on balancing a high-octane career and a bustling family life. Tune in and enjoy the ride!

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Transcript

Jason

00:00:22 – 00:00:27

Great to have you, by the way. Welcome to Protect Mute. Season 3 finale, folks. We made it.

Jason

00:00:28 – 00:00:48

Another 30 episodes. I think we're at, like, gosh, like, a 150 total over 3 seasons. It's been quite quite a season. Just we'll we'll talk about that Friday. I'm excited to finally have the man himself, Aaron Francis, in the space that I feel like we've been working on this for a while, and we finally made it.

Jason

00:00:48 – 00:00:53

What a better way than to to be the end of the season? Leave with a bang. Right?

Aaron

00:00:54 – 00:00:59

Stuck together. I am honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Jason

00:00:59 – 00:01:09

Yeah. No. Let's, let's just, kinda get into it here. I I mean, I I kinda range the questions. I'm all over the place, but why don't you introduce yourself to the space?

Jason

00:01:09 – 00:01:10

Let's start. Gladly.

Aaron

00:01:10 – 00:01:39

Yeah. Well, like, Jason said, my name is Aaron Francis. I'm a software, developer and primarily I guess, historically, mostly back end. Do a lot of stuff in the Laravel space. Also database educator, super into, databases of all, shapes and sizes, and most importantly, dad to 2 sets of twins.

Aaron

00:01:39 – 00:01:57

So I've got, 2 3 year olds and 2 oh goodness. What month is it? This is the 6th month of the year. So they're probably 7 months old now. So life is very, very busy and very, very good.

Aaron

00:01:57 – 00:02:14

And I am currently out on, quote, my own, but I'm with a friend. So me and a friend, have started a a basically, a video production company, but, aimed at, developers. So that is what I'm doing now.

Jason

00:02:15 – 00:02:38

Welcome to the Techcommute. And, I love love your work. You and Steve have such a great, like, diet like, team effort or collaborative Yeah. Mindset together. And I I wanna wanna rewind a little bit because I'd love to hear how you 2 met and how you started collaborating and kinda what the vision is behind the the projects or the products that you're putting out there.

Jason

00:02:38 – 00:03:03

Because, again, it's you guys are setting a really high bar, and I love it because I feel like the this area needs more of this, that that polish to it. And and again, it's just fantastic. But let's go let's go back before 2 sets of twins, before marriage, before maybe even some of the coding. Why don't we why don't we talk about early Aaron Francis? Going back to high school.

Jason

00:03:03 – 00:03:06

Was this let's let's talk about that.

Aaron

00:03:07 – 00:03:27

Well, if you wanna go precoding, you gotta go way, way, way back. I picked up my first, like, I picked up HTML when I was gosh. Let's see. I must have been 9 or 10 when I started doing HTML, CSS. And then shortly thereafter, I started with asp.net.

Aaron

00:03:28 – 00:03:46

I remember I went on a church ski trip as a kid. And because that was so awesome, I brought this book, asp.net unleashed. I brought it on the bus and read it on the way to Colorado. And then after that, I switched over to PHP pretty quickly. So I've been doing PHP for goodness.

Aaron

00:03:46 – 00:04:01

It's gotta be north of 20 years now if I'm 35. So been doing PHP forever. Never gave up the dream. Still doing PHP today. So, yeah, been kind of a a a nerd all along.

Aaron

00:04:01 – 00:04:17

In college, I actually got my master's in accounting. So I got I have 2 accounting degrees and one professional accounting certificate. I am a CPA. And then I was like, man, this sucks. I spent 1 year at Ernst and Young, here in Dallas doing people's taxes.

Aaron

00:04:17 – 00:04:55

And I was like, this is not very fun. But, truly, the reason I left it wasn't very fun, but, truly, the reason I left, the big firm was I watched a bunch of people that were a few years ahead of me and, like, the best people in their in their class, they'd, like, have hiring classes at big firms like this. I watched a few of those people get passed over for promotions simply because their time had not come yet. That didn't sit super well with me. I was like, well, what if I'm what if I'm, like, the best in my class and I work the hardest and I still don't get the promotion like that guy in front of me?

Aaron

00:04:55 – 00:05:04

And I was like, I don't wanna do that. And so I left. And I've been a software a professional software developer, ever since then.

Jason

00:05:05 – 00:05:13

I love that. PHP is in your blood. That would explain why you kinda come back to it and and back into the Laravel fold. Those have been some great videos.

Aaron

00:05:14 – 00:05:15

Oh my god.

Jason

00:05:15 – 00:05:35

So good. I so we went to school, CPA, back into the accounting. And then you make that jump. Can you kinda walk us through? Because we do have a lot of I think it's a little bit different or a little more nuanced for you because you had already had the coding experience prior to your CPA in accounting, but a lot of career transitioners.

Jason

00:05:35 – 00:05:44

Could you maybe talk a little bit about what that pivot was like maybe going back into coding from accounting and getting that first role? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

Aaron

00:05:45 – 00:06:02

Yeah. So I was doing some odd jobs on the side when I was at the the the accounting firm. And, you know, that had really come from, like, you know, friends and family being like, oh, hey. Aaron does computers. And it's like, yeah.

Aaron

00:06:02 – 00:06:25

I mean, I do, but it's just not all the same. But the first, like, real you know, once I left it was like, well, alright. I gotta I gotta crank this up to 11 if I'm gonna live. You know, back then I was, you know, I had had couple of roommates, no wife, no kids, and so life was just so much simpler. But, yeah, I, I I left and was doing some of these freelancing jobs.

Aaron

00:06:25 – 00:06:56

And the first real, like, like, honest to god programmer job I got came from, came from somebody stumbling across a blog post that I had written. And so, like, I was, you know, I was building stuff on my own and then putting it out there and trying to make money off of it. Some worked, some didn't. But most importantly, I was writing blog posts as I learned something, discovered something, or, you know, invented something. And I was just put them up, like, just put a blog post on aaronfrancis.com.

Aaron

00:06:57 – 00:07:15

And out of the blue, I got, I don't know if there's an email or a call. I don't remember. But some company out in California was like, hey, man. I see that you're working with this particular PHP framework, which is pre Laravel, and I see that you've, like, done this thing. We're working with that framework, and we really need some help.

Aaron

00:07:15 – 00:07:28

Do you wanna help? And I was like, sure. That sounds great. And so I that's how I landed my first, like, long term programming job. And I'd spent, I live here in Dallas, Texas, and I would do 2 weeks in Dallas and 2 weeks in California.

Aaron

00:07:28 – 00:07:36

And I just thought, this is it. I've, like, I've made it. How cool is this? Like, they want me to travel. And, you know, you realize, well, traveling is not that fun.

Aaron

00:07:36 – 00:08:09

And so after that, I went and worked for a startup here in in Dallas just based on the fact that, like, I feel like the first job is the hardest one to get. But once I got that second one, it was like game over. I can I can just go to any company now because I have, you know, experience as a software developer? And so it's very, it's very on brand, honestly, for me that, like, my first real programming job came from writing something and putting it out there, and I got lucky. And that's kinda been, like, the story of my entire career.

Aaron

00:08:10 – 00:08:28

Almost almost every good thing I have has come as a result of, putting, like, putting myself out there. Of course, working very hard, but also, like, telling people, hey. Look at this thing I did. And you never know who's watching, and sometimes they reach out and they've got jobs for you.

Jason

00:08:29 – 00:08:50

Well, that is fantastic. I I think, especially with social media now and how it's evolved, the ability to put yourself out there and show the work you're doing and building in public is is so prominent. Have you always has that always been something you've been interested in, or did you have to kinda work up to that? Because I know some people have a little bit of a a fear of doing those things.

Aaron

00:08:50 – 00:09:16

Totally. Yeah. I mean, back then, it was it was much, like I feel like back then, it was much less, emotionally fraught for me to, like, just write a blog post about, you know, automating migrations with Yi on Heroku. And I was like, well, but I could I could be anybody. It doesn't that doesn't really expose my, you know, my, emotions to the world.

Aaron

00:09:16 – 00:09:39

But now, like so that was that was easy. But, like, at some point, I had this, you know, it was probably 2020 or 2021. I think it was 2021. I forget now. But I had this realization that, like, I was watching a lot of people online on Twitter, get like, have good things happen to them.

Aaron

00:09:39 – 00:10:24

And I was like, man, like, I I'm I'm watching all these people, and I wanna speak at conferences. And, like, I want I want people to use my open source work and I I wanna make friends in the industry and get jobs and, you know, I wanted all of this stuff. And I was like, why is it not why is none of this happening to me? And it it became very it became very obvious to me at the time that the, all of the good things were happening to people, that were putting themselves out there in a very, like, open and transparent way. And I realized that I had been, kinda holding myself back because I was afraid that people were gonna look at me and be like, oh, that's dumb.

Aaron

00:10:24 – 00:10:37

And, like, I was gonna be embarrassed because people on the Internet were gonna think I was dumb. And, like, that's very real. And that, like, that counts. And that totally exists. And I wouldn't ever say to anyone, like, that's stupid.

Aaron

00:10:37 – 00:10:49

You gotta get over that. Because, I mean, I experienced that. It's very real. It's very scary to put yourself out there and then have people that you either know, like, and trust, or just strangers make fun of you. It's like, I super don't wanna do that.

Aaron

00:10:50 – 00:11:15

But, you know, in a, like, in a vacuum, that is that's your option. But we don't, you know, we don't live in a vacuum. The the corollary or, like, the counter to that is, sure, you can not put yourself out there. You can protect your, your sense of self or your ego, and no one will probably ever laugh at you. And if that's, like, your ultimate goal, that's that's totally fine.

Aaron

00:11:16 – 00:12:04

But then the downside to that is you could, and this is what the realization that I've had was, like, there is a very real possibility that if I continue along that path and then I reach the end of my career, I'm gonna look back and say, man, you had so much opportunity, but you didn't you didn't get to realize any of it because you were scared of what other people were gonna think of you. And, like, looking just the incredible, like, pending regret, the the regret that hasn't yet come to pass, is me looking back on my career and saying, I wish you had just cared less what people think about you. And that was enough for me to be like, oh, man. Yeah. Being laughed at online is bad.

Aaron

00:12:04 – 00:12:19

I don't want that. But being 60 and wishing I had done my whole career differently just because I was scared of what some random people on the Internet would think of me. That feels a lot worse. And so at that point, it was like, okay. Yeah.

Aaron

00:12:19 – 00:12:48

You've got this one fear, but this other fear sure is a lot bigger, and I don't I don't wanna end up in that spot. And so that was kind of the point where everything just changed, and I, like, truly just started putting everything I could out there. I started tweeting so much more, making videos and writing articles and everything because I thought I'm not gonna end up wishing I could have done more. I'm gonna end up thinking, you did everything you could have done, and either good or bad things happened, but you you did your best. And that's kinda where I wanna end.

Jason

00:12:53 – 00:13:20

Yeah. I I love that. I think you brought up a lot of really good points. I wanna I wanna touch on all of them in in sections here because the thing with regret and I know, obviously, when you started your career, your priorities and your whys probably have evolved quite a bit, especially with the family now. So I kinda wanna touch on that a little bit, but more importantly, the kinda towing that line of of being authentic self and and for lack of a better term, a shit poster.

Jason

00:13:21 – 00:13:37

Like, how do you how do you how do you look at how you're putting stuff out there? Because I think sometimes people do see the the allure of that or that that dopamine rush with the engagement stuff. Like, how do you keep yourself balanced or at least, like, cognizant of what you're you're doing?

Aaron

00:13:37 – 00:13:54

Yeah. I've got a lot of, very strong opinions about that. And nobody, like, nobody else has to share them. It's totally fine, after I say all of these opinions, if you as as the listeners think, well, I don't agree with that. That's totally fine.

Aaron

00:13:54 – 00:14:17

That is completely fine. But I'm going to express them as if they are absolutes because in many ways, they are for me, but they're still 100% opinions. So with that disclaimer, being out there, the whole, like, there is a whole thing about shitposting and I personally don't like it. I don't buy into it. I don't do it.

Aaron

00:14:17 – 00:14:54

I don't like it. I don't follow a lot of people that are prolific shitposters because oh goodness. Let's see. I would much rather end up with a much smaller, set of friends or audience or followers or whatever. I would much rather end up with a group of people that know me for who I am instead of a huge audience that thinks my meme instead of a huge audience that thinks my memes are funny, which is, of course, not to say that a huge audience of people that think your memes are funny is bad.

Aaron

00:14:54 – 00:15:18

That's totally fine. I just don't want that. I don't want I don't want people to follow me and not be able to tell when I'm being sincere and when I'm joking and when I'm being cynical and when I'm being sarcastic. You'll you'll see from time to time someone who is, let's say, more skewing towards prolific shit poster. You'll see from time to time them say something like, hey.

Aaron

00:15:18 – 00:15:44

I'm just gonna be serious for a second. Or you'll see people respond and be like, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. And that is not kind of like, that's not the image or the kind of content that I want to put forward. I want to be, I want to be, like, incredibly sincere. And when I say something, I want that thing to be true on its space.

Aaron

00:15:44 – 00:16:13

Not, like, cloaked in not cloaked in 3 or 4 levels of irony or cynicism because I'm afraid to say the underlying truth. Like, I just want to say the underlying truth. And if people, like, think that that's silly or embarrassing or whatever, that's totally fine. I'm totally fine with that. And I, have come to terms or peace with the facts that, like, I operate on Twitter slightly differently, and that is okay with me.

Aaron

00:16:13 – 00:16:58

And I think it's okay also to sit around and, like, make memes all day and should post and do whatever. But I think what I am trying to do is actually, actually connect with people and I don't take myself terribly seriously, which I think is an important distinction between sincerity and seriousness. I don't take myself terribly seriously. And so I'm always, especially in in people's replies, like, having fun and making jokes and stuff. But I don't like personally, I don't like when everything is cloaked in irony or cynicism because I think that is, a missed opportunity to deliver the message with higher impact.

Aaron

00:16:58 – 00:17:28

And so, like, when you, you know, when you say something that is sincere and heartfelt, most of the time, that's gonna hit a lot harder than some, like, approaching it from the side through cynicism or irony. And I just don't what I really don't want is people to meet me in person and say something like, oh, he's totally different in person. He's so nice and kind in person. He's just playing a character on Twitter. Like, that would be a failure in my opinion, for me.

Aaron

00:17:28 – 00:17:38

And so that's kinda that's kinda where I've come down is like, hey. No cynicism. Totally sincere, which doesn't mean serious. Still have fun. Still make jokes.

Aaron

00:17:38 – 00:17:47

Still self deprecate. But not, like, not rabid cynical shitposture, which is, that's just my opinion.

Jason

00:17:48 – 00:18:08

No. I I love that. And I I just went to render, and everybody thought I was shorter than I am and older just based on my picture. So I just I wanna clarify that as well because I do try to be this authentic person. I try to pretend that, apparently, that I I look older, but it just didn't happen.

Jason

00:18:09 – 00:18:32

Has this changed for you since you started doing this? Because I think some people evolve what they're putting out there. But, again, based on maybe how your priorities have changed in your life outside of tech or outside of social media, has this been something again that you've sort of evolved and grown into, or is this always been how you've just maintained what you're putting out there?

Aaron

00:18:37 – 00:19:13

I that's interesting. I don't think necessary like, everything that I publish is still congruent with my long term personality. So it's not like I have necessarily I haven't necessarily personally changed a lot in the past, like, we'll call it 2 or 3 years. Like, the, I have historically been extremely, empathetic, sometimes very, like, emotional. It's easy to make me cry.

Aaron

00:19:13 – 00:19:19

No problem. You show me a commercial, and I could probably you know, one of those hallmark commercials are like

Jason

00:19:19 – 00:19:21

Don't watch Bluey. Don't you

Aaron

00:19:21 – 00:19:51

watch Bluey, then I'd hearing I keep hearing that Bluey is gonna wreck me, and I'm like, I'm not emotionally prepared for that. So all of that, like, all of that stuff has always been true. A little bit of the more, like, empath softer kind of man, which is is great. I like that about myself. But in terms of in terms of, like, the content that I put out there, I think that has, like, arced more towards the soft skills side of stuff.

Aaron

00:19:51 – 00:20:31

You know, I gave a talk at Laracon about, publishing your work, and it was not very technical. It was very, like, the inner workings of how you put yourself out there and how that can be difficult and scary and that kind of stuff. And I think that has resonated with a lot of people. I still love writing blog posts about databases, but it seems like writing blog posts about being willing to try hard even if you fail or being willing to put in more effort than other people or being willing to care more than other people, that seems to resonate with people more. And so I have maybe arced my, writing more towards that.

Aaron

00:20:31 – 00:20:37

Even though it has been congruent with my personality forever, I have started writing about it more.

Jason

00:20:38 – 00:20:49

Yeah. That makes sense. So that's interesting that it seems like you've done talks on both sides. So what is your preference? More technical or more, soft skills like interpersonal?

Aaron

00:20:50 – 00:21:03

Either. Honestly. Honestly, both. I love, like, I love getting up there and talking about, you know, a good way to order composite indexes in SQLite. Like, heck yeah.

Aaron

00:21:03 – 00:21:21

Sign me up. I'll give that talk all day every day. But I also love to get up on stage and talk about, like, man, this is this is your one life. And if you're scared of what Internet randos think, you're gonna miss out on it. Like, I'm fully at home in either place, and I I think both I think both are important.

Aaron

00:21:23 – 00:22:12

And I think one of them it's so interesting. I think one of them gives me credibility in the other spot, because if you know like, if you the the the universe if one knows, if a person knows, they're like, I'm this hardcore, database programmer that reads all these books and makes all these courses, and then I get up there and talk about how I'm scared about people judging me, people are gonna believe like, it's gonna hit a little bit harder, I think, when they're like, oh, I thought Aaron was this, you know, unapproachable person that always, you know, puts out this great content. It's like, yeah. But behind the scenes, I'm terrified all the time, and I, like, lay awake at night thinking about, like, what is my career going to be. And I feel like, oh, man.

Aaron

00:22:12 – 00:22:25

That hits a lot harder if you, like, if you can show people, hey. I'm I'm in your same industry doing the same thing. I'm down in the weeds, and, also, I'm terrified. So I like I like doing them both.

Jason

00:22:26 – 00:22:54

Oh, yeah. I mean, I I think, again, it it speaks to that you see a lot of the positives or just the the wins online, where we all sort of know subconsciously, like, it's not even remotely accurate as to how anyone's life goes. So I think grounding us in those realistic, like, perspectives gives us more rapport with our our peers because we all know we're on the same battlefronts, which

Aaron

00:22:54 – 00:22:54

Mhmm.

Jason

00:22:55 – 00:23:09

I I love that. Let's let's kinda dive in. You had that first role. How many other roles were in between then and PlanetScale? A lot?

Jason

00:23:10 – 00:23:11

A lot? Okay.

Aaron

00:23:11 – 00:23:36

Maybe not that many. I don't know. So I did, this startup here in Dallas for a while, Traxo, and then I went to, I was a so I was a back end developer there, and then I went to a, publicly traded company called Varonis that does IT security. And I was a marketing data analyst there, which is interesting. And it was a blast.

Aaron

00:23:36 – 00:24:07

I was there for maybe, 18 months or something. And then I left there to go, work at a local property tax company. So here in Texas, property taxes are kind of a big deal, and there are firms that protest on behalf of homeowners, to get their taxes lower. And my sister-in-law was working there, and they were having trouble keeping up with, their, like, all their clients. And they were using off the shelf, they're, like, using Google Docs and, you know, Zoho invoice and all this stuff.

Aaron

00:24:08 – 00:24:26

And my sister-in-law told the owners, like, hey. My brother-in-law does computer stuff. Maybe he can help. And so I went there, and I was the first I was the first programmer there. And from from there, I so I, like, built an internal CRM, and then we hired a couple other programmers.

Aaron

00:24:26 – 00:24:45

So I became, like, the CTO of this company. You know, I'm managing 3 or 4 programmers. This company may be 25, 30, 40 people, something like that. And over the course of the next few years, I just ran I became the manager of the entire company. So all of the owners, like, checked out and kinda, like, sat back and enjoyed their their profits.

Aaron

00:24:45 – 00:25:08

And I was the COO and I ran the company. And so I was there for 5 years. And when I left, I was probably managing, directly or indirectly, 30 or 40 people. And then from there, I left and went to Tuple, which is a pair of programming company. I was there for, like, 6 months before, I started work at PlanetScale.

Jason

00:25:10 – 00:25:23

There we go. And then, obviously, PlanetScale was kind of a big one. I'm curious. It seems like you had a lot of like, a variety of roles. Did you enjoy that, or did you always sort of find yourself circling back to, like, one specific interest?

Jason

00:25:25 – 00:25:25

Mhmm.

Aaron

00:25:26 – 00:25:29

Yeah. I mean, goodness.

Jason

00:25:29 – 00:25:30

I don't really know.

Aaron

00:25:30 – 00:25:56

I I feel like, I have I mean, I went from an accountant to a freelancer to a data analyst to a programmer to a COO to a marketing data analyst to a database educator. And it's kind of it's been all over the place, and I love it. I think it's awesome. It's so much fun. I have continued throughout the entire time to program and build stuff.

Aaron

00:25:56 – 00:26:28

And I think that's maybe the core of it all is I just like to build stuff. Yeah. I think we're narrowing in on what could be, you know, the next 10 years, and that would be more of this, like, education, content creation, that sort of stuff. It seems like a nice mix of, technical requirements and, like, marketing being out front, that sort of thing. And so, yeah, I haven't really, disliked any job.

Aaron

00:26:28 – 00:26:46

The job at Tupelo was tough because it was ill defined, which is what led to, you know, kind of the the exiting there. It was like, I don't think y'all need a, whatever I am, you know, in house software marketer. Like, you need an actual marketer. But I feel like we're getting close to, hey. This is what I could do for the next decade.

Jason

00:26:48 – 00:26:53

And now that brings us to PlanetScale. And what, what was your official title when you were there?

Aaron

00:26:54 – 00:26:58

I was a developer educator.

Jason

00:27:00 – 00:27:25

And then what did that I mean, that seems like that kinda satiated what you're currently doing. You were Mhmm. You know, educating, doing the video content, but also building at the same time. Can you and, obviously, most of us are in here pretty familiar with this situation, the the events that unfolded. But if you wanted to just maybe give us a cliff notes, and I I wanna talk about probably, most importantly, like, what that felt like for you.

Jason

00:27:25 – 00:27:44

Like, what that situation was like, the maybe the aftermath, and then the steps from there because, I mean, especially with the way the job market is right now with just the way a lot of people are dealing with stuff with the economy and the industry. It's good to hear good to hear other people's insights and how you sort of reflected on that and came through that situation.

Aaron

00:27:46 – 00:28:06

Yeah. Sure. So for for those that don't know, I got laid off from PlanetScale, like, in, goodness, March maybe, something like that, along with the entire marketing department and the entire sales department and a lot of engineers. So, yeah, who knows? So, yeah, I was a developer educator there.

Aaron

00:28:06 – 00:28:44

And in that role, my primary work product was videos. It started out a little bit, more nebulous, and I was doing some articles and, you know, speaking at some conferences and stuff like that. But then I did, but then I did, I brought I brought in when I joined PlanetScale, I brought in a course that I was already working on, which ended up being MySQL for developers. And so I completed that at PlanetScale, and that went on to be the best marketing asset that PlanetScale has ever had. And so I just just kept doing videos.

Aaron

00:28:44 – 00:29:00

And so after that, I picked up. I was like, hey. What if we do videos on YouTube? And I just kinda, like, did it and it worked. And so that's where I ended up doing most of my work, was just making making YouTube videos about databases, which was was awesome.

Aaron

00:29:00 – 00:29:19

I loved it. And then, yeah, I was on, it's kinda brutal. I was on paternity leave, having just had a second set of twins. And so we've got 22 year olds at home and then we have 2 newborns, literally newborns. So 2a half and newborn.

Aaron

00:29:20 – 00:29:36

And I'm on paternity leave. I was also stricken with rheumatoid arthritis for the first time during, during this time. So, like, I'm basically at my lowest point in my entire life. I'm not sleeping at all. I've got a 1000000 kids under the age of 3.

Aaron

00:29:36 – 00:29:54

Now I have rheumatoid arthritis in addition to, long standing type 1 diabetes. And so I'm like, man, can it get any worse? And then it got worse. I got laid off. So, yeah, I was, like, 2 days from coming back from paternity leave.

Aaron

00:29:55 – 00:30:06

I was supposed to come back on a Friday, and I got laid off on a Wednesday. And I was like, well, shoot. Now what? So that was kind of not great. Maybe it's an understatement.

Aaron

00:30:07 – 00:30:19

It was not ideal. And so I got laid off and I'd already planned on going to see Dune too in theaters that afternoon. I was like, hey, you're about to go back to work. You should have some fun. And then it was like, hey.

Aaron

00:30:19 – 00:30:27

You got laid off. You should have some fun. So I went and saw Dune. And after I I I tweeted right before I walked in, like, hey, y'all. Just got laid off.

Aaron

00:30:27 – 00:30:44

Kinda bummed. Would love to figure out what's next. And walked into Dune, had a great time. It's one of those theaters where you can get chicken tenders and a diet coke, and I just freaking crushed it and had a great time. And then walked out, and the tweet was just like, it had gone insane.

Aaron

00:30:44 – 00:31:11

I think it ended around 5 or 600000 impressions, and it was just, like, the most encouraging, like, uplifting beyond people saying you're gonna be fine or, like, I can't believe they did this. Beyond that was people saying, do you wanna come work for us? Like, oh, okay. This is not, like, this is not the end of the world. And so that was incredibly encouraging to walk out and be like, alright.

Aaron

00:31:11 – 00:31:25

Dune is over, but now I still don't have a job. And then open Twitter and be like, oh, wait. There are some jobs. I could get a job. So then the next the week after, I took just a ton of interviews with basically everyone that would talk to me.

Aaron

00:31:25 – 00:31:43

And, it, like, it was very, very, reassuring that people had noticed my work and thought it was good. Because, you know, I live in my head all day and to have other people say the work you do is good. It's like, oh, wow. That's kinda cool. Thanks.

Aaron

00:31:43 – 00:32:02

I appreciate that. And so I took all these interviews and it was like, do you wanna go play the sit like, do you wanna go play the hits again? Like, do you wanna go play the same song again at some other company? And I thought, like, how many times can you do that? Like, how many times can you go to a company and say like, hey, everybody.

Aaron

00:32:02 – 00:32:12

I'm at this company. It's very good. Buy my stuff. Like, you just can't do that very often. And so I thought, I don't necessarily wanna play the hits again.

Aaron

00:32:12 – 00:32:24

Like, I don't wanna go do the same thing for some other database company. So that's when Steve and I started talking. Steve and I both got laid off from PlanetScale. And we were like, hey. Should we just should we just give this a go?

Aaron

00:32:24 – 00:32:40

Should we, like, do this thing ourselves? And that's what it came down to. We were both like, yeah. Let's just do that do this thing ourselves. And so we teamed up with some initial ideas of what we would take to, you know, quote to the market, like, what our offering would be.

Aaron

00:32:40 – 00:33:05

And then we took those to the market, and then they completely changed. So we're adapting what our offerings are as we go. But, it is it is totally working and has been an absolute delight. And I think the calculus was made a little bit easier because, like, let's say I go out on my own, you know, with Steve, and then we just crash and burn. I just go back to some of those companies.

Aaron

00:33:05 – 00:33:19

And worst case scenario, half of them aren't hiring anymore, but half of them still are. And I go back and I tell them, like, hey. I tried to live the dream and it didn't work. Can I have a job? Like, who's gonna fault you for that?

Aaron

00:33:19 – 00:33:36

And so it just felt like, hey. This is my opportunity. I think if I don't do it right now, it's gonna be harder to do it later because you don't wanna go to a job and quit 3 months in. Like, that's I feel like that's bad form. And so I we just decided, let's give it a go and see what happens.

Aaron

00:33:36 – 00:33:39

And so far, what's happened is it's been working.

Jason

00:33:41 – 00:33:59

What wow. I was like I'm, like, on the edge of my seat here. I mean, you I've been following the story, so I'm pretty up to date with a lot of this. But just hearing all of it again in that order and just thinking about what you were what was going on in your head. Do you say you live in your head?

Jason

00:33:59 – 00:34:15

Well, in those minutes, like, right after you got the call or the email or I I I don't know how plan this case lays you guys off. It's super unfortunate. But, like, what was going on in your head in those minutes at or, like, right after, like, what was that initial feeling you had?

Aaron

00:34:17 – 00:34:34

Oh, some mix of embarrassment, which I don't think is warranted just for anyone else that's been laid off. I don't think that that's warranted. It is reality, though. I felt embarrassed. Some mix of embarrassment, fear, and anger.

Aaron

00:34:35 – 00:34:56

And, you know, I'm up here. I was in, I I've, you know, got 4 little babies at home. And so I've rented an apartment that's a 1 bedroom apartment, which is where I do all my all my work. I've turned this I'm in the bedroom right now, but there's no bed. There's just a desk and a bunch of filming lights and a backdrop that I built.

Aaron

00:34:56 – 00:35:16

And so I was up here at the apartment building out this studio that I thought was gonna be PlanetScale Studios. And I get laid off and all these things are going through my head. And the first thing I did was call, my wife and tell her because she was at home. And I called my wife and was like, hey. I just got laid off.

Aaron

00:35:16 – 00:35:45

And the just the, like, one, I think it's a testament to, like, our relationship that that was my first response. It was like, I know that I can tell her and I know that that will be helpful to me and just how lucky I am that that is true. Like, that is the reality. Oh, you know, when something terrible happens, I wanna call my wife because she's my teammate. And her response was, of course, everything I could have hoped for and more which was like, I'm so sorry.

Aaron

00:35:46 – 00:36:05

This is gonna be totally fine. You are you have got this. This is gonna be totally fine. And so just having a a spouse that, like, is supportive and loves you and cares for you is pretty amazing and I feel truly blessed to have that. And so after that, you know, I felt I felt embarrassed.

Aaron

00:36:05 – 00:36:26

I was gonna have to tell everybody I got laid off and then mad that they laid me off. And then, you know, it's all all of the emotions at once. There's, of course, a little bit you know, when you walk out of Dune and see that people are, like, on your team, then there's a little bit of, like, oh, man. I wonder if there's an opportunity here. But in the beginning, I was just embarrassed and mad.

Jason

00:36:27 – 00:36:51

Yeah. I can definitely understand that totally. How do you think how do you think you handled it now as opposed to how 15 years ago Erin would've processed this? Before the family, before responsibilities, maybe some again, priorities have changed and evolved over the course of your career.

Aaron

00:36:52 – 00:37:07

Yeah. I think if I had gotten laid off 15 years ago, I just wouldn't have cared at all. I don't think. I feel like I would have gone to Whataburger and then come home and played FIFA with my roommate. Like, I just don't think it would have, like, it would have I don't think it would have registered at all.

Aaron

00:37:07 – 00:37:31

It would have been kinda like, Well, that sucks. What do you guys wanna do tonight? And that's that's kinda how it would go. But now, like, the the, unbelievable weight of being a dad and, the sole source of income in the family, is crushing. Just absolutely crushing.

Aaron

00:37:32 – 00:37:45

And so that's like I I can I've I've lived in a house with 5 other dudes. I've slept on the floor. I've eaten frozen pizzas every day. Like, I I'm fine. I'll be totally fine.

Aaron

00:37:45 – 00:38:07

But that's not what they signed up for, you know? That's not what that's not what the the wife and kids wanna do. They don't wanna move into like a a one bedroom house and just rough it. And so, you know, kids need shoes and food and school and that kind of stuff. So it was way, way, way more terrifying as a 35 year old than it would be at 20.

Aaron

00:38:07 – 00:38:16

At 20, it's just like, dang. Alright. Well, what do we do next? But now it's like, oh, no. I've got a whole family that's counting on me.

Jason

00:38:17 – 00:38:24

It's amazing how your priorities kinda shift when when you're wise or your your motivation for what you're doing changes.

Aaron

00:38:25 – 00:38:25

And I

Jason

00:38:25 – 00:38:47

think that that's, like, so important to think about. Obviously, that was that was a big decision that you guys had to make when you and Steve decided to to tag team it and start your own thing. Like, what were maybe maybe some of the thoughts going through your head there too? Were you were you questioning it? Was that was that something you you felt nervous?

Jason

00:38:47 – 00:38:48

Yeah?

Aaron

00:38:49 – 00:39:32

I felt a little bit nervous. We, as a family, like, have some runway to to survive, and so that you know, if we didn't, there's no just no there's no no way I would have done it. So we had a little bit, saved up, and so that took a little bit of pressure off. Once I was able to connect with a, like, a health care, what whatever, insurance agent, basically, And we walked through the offerings on, the marketplace or Obamacare. Like, that made that was the biggest source of, like that was the biggest unknown stressor was okay.

Aaron

00:39:32 – 00:39:58

Well, there are now 6 humans in this family. How do we get them medical insurance? And once I figured that out and figured out it wasn't gonna bankrupt us, it was like, ah, okay. This is cool. And, so between having a little bit, saved up, having health insurance figured out, and then kind of just, like, realizing, hey.

Aaron

00:39:58 – 00:40:20

If this totally goes sideways, we we will know that in the first 3 or 6 months. And, like, it it hasn't, fortunately. But if it had, it would have been it would have been a little bit also embarrassing to be to come publicly walk it back. But, like, hey. I'll be embarrassed if it means my kids can continue to wear shoes and eat food.

Aaron

00:40:20 – 00:40:29

And so I thought, hey. Worst worst case scenario, it doesn't work. We burn through some savings. I go get a job, and everything will be fine.

Jason

00:40:30 – 00:40:57

Things always work out how they're supposed to. I'm a firm believer of that. And it seems like things are moving in the right direction. But speaking of the family and the stresses of home life, how have you how have you always or even, I'm sure it's changed now, especially now that they're getting older, the needs of the household change. How have you sort of managed, I'm doing air quotes when I say this, the the infamous work life balance?

Aaron

00:40:58 – 00:41:23

Yeah. Very carefully and very purposefully. I have, so I think, first of all, I think I am willing to try a lot harder and put a lot more effort in than most people, which is neither right nor wrong. I think it is it is true. However, there are things I am unwilling to do.

Aaron

00:41:24 – 00:42:06

And maybe top of that list is unwilling to miss my kids my kids' lives. I'm just, like, I am not going I am not going to miss my kids growing up and I'm not going to pretend that me working, that me working really hard as a substitute for caring for them. And I think that is, that is and can be a trap that men fall into when they're like, yeah. I'm never at home, but that's because I'm at work providing for the family. I'm like, you know what?

Aaron

00:42:07 – 00:42:35

You know what your kids actually need? They need food and they need their dad. And that's a like, as far as providing goes, that's what they need. And so I'm not willing I'm not willing to trick myself into saying, I can stay at the office all the time because I'll make a bunch of money and then their lives will be better. And you know what they want?

Aaron

00:42:42 – 00:43:05

They want dad. And so I have a pretty hard line about, like I go home. At the end of the day, I go home. And I, I do dinner, and I do bedtime, and we do bath, and we jump on the bed, and I wrestle, and I make everybody laugh. And sometimes accidentally make them cry if you tickle them too hard, but, like, we're working on that.

Aaron

00:43:06 – 00:43:23

And so I go home. And then what happens after they go to bed? Maybe I go back to work. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with sacrificing things that belong to me versus sacrificing things that belong to other people.

Aaron

00:43:24 – 00:44:00

Things that belong to other people, my kids' my kids' childhood belongs to them. I'm like, I'm not gonna let that go. And so it is, it is very difficult. Like, it is an incredible amount of stress and an incredible amount of pressure. But, again, if I think about when I'm 60, am I gonna look back and say, I'm so glad that, like, I launched that SQLite course a week earlier, and I missed out on doing a bunch of stuff with my kids?

Aaron

00:44:01 – 00:44:28

I don't think so. I really don't think so. I think I'm gonna look back and say, man, I am so glad I was there for bedtime, and I'm so glad that I told them stories and tickled them. And I'm just so glad that I did all of that. And it was hard, and I was tired because I would go back to the office and record more, or I would get up early and go to work and then come home for breakfast, so that I didn't miss breakfast either.

Aaron

00:44:28 – 00:44:47

And, like, on the weekends, you know, at this point, there's just not a lot of work getting done on the weekends. We got 4 kids. 2 of them are still, you know, on the breasts, and so it's like, what there's only 2 adults and there's 4 kids. So, well, there's just not a lot of me time on the weekends. And you know what?

Aaron

00:44:47 – 00:45:06

That's okay. There's just such a short period of time, that your kids are kids and some things don't matter. Some things in fact, most things don't matter. Only some things do, and I'm trying to make sure that I don't miss out on the some things that do matter.

Jason

00:45:09 – 00:45:37

Oh, I I just I wanna I wanna say I'm, like, super honored you're sharing this with us. I know that was that was tough, as a dad, one that also carries a certain level of, like, regret for missing a lot of my my older kids, like, younger days. Like, that was very important to me to to get a redo, so to speak. And that was one of the big reasons I left the film industry. You know, I worked for 15 years.

Aaron

00:45:37 – 00:45:38

I was never around.

Jason

00:45:38 – 00:46:03

Like, it I get emotional talking about it too. So, like, I I totally get it. I had the hardest time going to render for 4 days because I had to leave, my my son. So I know that we're we're we're in the same boat there. I I totally get it, and I admire you for being able to, like, share that with with all of us because I I think this is stuff that people don't don't talk about.

Jason

00:46:03 – 00:46:23

And I know that there's a lot more people that feel it. Yeah. There's a lot more people that feel it than actually tell you. And, you know, this kinda circles back to that whole regret thing, and and it's so important to focus on those things that matter. Your why should always trump your what or the how.

Jason

00:46:23 – 00:46:54

And and I really respect you for for putting that out there like that. I'll I'll lighten this up here because we've got, like, 20 minutes left, and I I don't I don't wanna be too blubbering idiots by the end of this and talking about this more. You you obviously now now that you've you've got the thing with Steve, you guys are working through that. You've done a lot of public speaking too, and you've always really put yourself out there as far as, like, just being in the public eye. Mhmm.

Jason

00:46:54 – 00:47:31

We when it comes to content and, again, we kinda touched on it earlier, but how do you sort of approach how you do public speaking or being in front of crowds or audiences or or doing this educational thing? Like, what are maybe just kinda some tips and stuff? Because I actually will be speaking at my first conference in about a month, and I know other people have these these kinda apprehensions. There's big imposter syndrome or imposter thoughts and just confidence things like what was what was it for you that was sort of the the tipping point to get you into it?

Aaron

00:47:32 – 00:48:00

Oh, goodness. That's a good question. I think I will answer the how do you approach it question first. I and this is like, this goes back to how I approach, maybe all things, but definitely Twitter. I approach it, like, very sincerely and very, maybe seriously in this case.

Aaron

00:48:00 – 00:48:24

So let's, for example, like, let's say I'm gonna give I'm gonna give a talk at a conference. One thing you will often see people do, especially especially on Twitter, one thing you'll see people do is they'll be like, oh, I'm giving a conference talk tomorrow. Guess I should start preparing LMAO. And you're like, wait. Hang on.

Aaron

00:48:25 – 00:48:46

Like, you're giving a conference talk. Somebody put their their trust and their audience and their organization. They put their trust in you. It's the day before the conference and you haven't prepared anything? Like, LMAO doesn't doesn't, absolve you from the fact that you haven't prepared for your talk tomorrow.

Aaron

00:48:46 – 00:49:13

And so I look at that and I'm like, what is going on here? Why why are people doing this? I think partially because people are afraid of trying really hard, and more importantly, I think they're afraid of being seen as someone who tries really hard. So this whole, like, oh, I haven't prepped anything. Guess we'll see what happens, is a nice cover because you can get up there on stage and bomb, and people will be like, yeah.

Aaron

00:49:13 – 00:49:21

Wow. That's amazing. You didn't prep anything. It's pretty good for not prepping anything. Or you can get up there and crush it, and everybody would be like, wow.

Aaron

00:49:21 – 00:49:41

That's amazing. He didn't even prep anything. Like, he must be a natural once in a lifetime talent. And I just think that that's like I think that that is poor behavior. And I think the way that I the way that I approach it is I practice an ungodly amount of times.

Aaron

00:49:41 – 00:50:24

If I'm if I'm giving a talk, like, I'm speaking at a conference or anything, my responsibility, regard not put on me by anyone else, but put on me by myself. My responsibility is to do the best that I can do, not to, like, do the least I can do to get by. What a horrible way to live. Like, I do the best that I can do, and that usually means literally practicing the talk out loud like a crazy person practicing it out loud 15 or 20 times, like, jokes included, clicking the slides with the little clicker included, live coding included. And so by the time I get on stage, it's like, 1, I I don't mind I don't mind being on stage.

Aaron

00:50:24 – 00:50:43

I don't I don't mind being in front of people. But regardless, by the time I get on stage, it's easy. This is my 21st time to give the talk. And so now it's like I've got this, you know, this nervous energy of being on stage, but I've got 20 times to fall back on. And so that's my like, that's the way that I approach it.

Aaron

00:50:43 – 00:51:02

That's the way that I approach almost everything. It's like, what would it look like if I tried as hard as I could here? And then is that reasonable given the bounds that I have? Usually, it's reasonable to practice a talk a whole bunch of times. There are sometimes where it's like, yeah, what it would look like to try as hard as you possibly can is not feasible in this situation.

Aaron

00:51:02 – 00:51:32

So you have to find a happy medium. But being on stage and giving a talk, I think, is just like the the organizers just put their trust in you and you need to honor that. But more than anything, you need to honor the fact that, like, you should do a good job. And if you get up there having practice 20 times and you bombed, that's actually not your fault. Like, that's actually there's there's no responsibility laid at your feet because your job is to is to try really hard and do the best that you can.

Aaron

00:51:32 – 00:51:42

And if it doesn't land, it doesn't land, and I'm okay with that. I know that I did everything I could. And so that's kinda how I approach it. I don't know if there was a second question. And if there was, I forgot what it was.

Aaron

00:51:43 – 00:51:43

No.

Jason

00:51:43 – 00:52:13

I did too. You and you said a bunch of things I can just follow-up on anyways. I was very curious about the, like, the effort component because I I feel like some people just feel burdened by it. But then I'm, like, you know, doing the public speaking or, you know, they're doing it at the capacity of a role, and they feel like it's part of the job where maybe they do lack the the the passion or the interest in doing it. And I think that's that's where that try kinda comes from or or, again, the effort or the energy.

Jason

00:52:14 – 00:52:24

And I'm I'm kinda curious as to if this somehow relates or has to do with the name of the company you and Steve founded.

Aaron

00:52:24 – 00:52:53

Absolutely. 100%. So the name of our company is Try Hard Studios, and we I think, I am lucky in that I have found Steve because Steve and I are on the same page on this. We are willing we are willing to try harder than is reasonable. We are willing to try harder, put more effort in than most people would view as a a reasonable amount of effort.

Aaron

00:52:53 – 00:53:28

I wanted to name it maximum effort because I have for a long many years, claimed I'm in my maximum effort era, which I think is still true. But, unfortunately, there's this guy called Ryan Reynolds who has a studio called Maximum Effort Studios. And so we went with Try Hard, and I think it I think it totally works because, because, like, there's this stigma against being seen to try hard. Everyone wants to act as if they're, like, just this talent that fell out of the sky. And, like, I think I do have some talent, but my, like, my greatest lever is effort.

Aaron

00:53:28 – 00:53:55

And I'm trying to tell people, like, you too can have leverage if you just try harder than most other people would try. And so, yeah, that's absolutely the thing behind our name. And it's kinda it's kinda nice because it's kinda cheeky too because, like, being a try hard is kind of like a negative connotation. And so there's some, like, subversion of the commonly understood meaning of try hard. It's like, yeah.

Aaron

00:53:55 – 00:54:00

I'm a try hard. Of course, I am. I'm super proud of that. So, yeah, that's definitely why we named it that.

Jason

00:54:01 – 00:54:15

Oh, I I love that. Henry chimed in here. Henry's a fantastic speaker, by the way, and Runner. Got to hang out with him at render. He was speaking in regards to the LMAO tweet, which I Yeah.

Aaron

00:54:15 – 00:54:15

Was

Jason

00:54:15 – 00:54:33

hilarious, by the way. How much of that is just clickbait as what they believe is funny on social media? Many of us don't really say that, like, ever. I think many of us totally enjoy the speaking and actually gulp he put gulp there, know our content. And I I think that that speaks to what you're you're also saying.

Jason

00:54:33 – 00:54:45

I think that there are that that percentage of you guys that really do enjoy this facet of the role. And I think when you have that passion behind what you're doing, everybody sees it.

Aaron

00:54:47 – 00:55:06

Yeah. So, I mean, to this question, this is a great, question that brings back the earlier point about Twitter. He says, how much of that is just clickbait, and what they believe will be funny on social media? I don't know. And I view if it is just clickbait and what they think will be funny on social media, I view that as worse than it being true.

Aaron

00:55:06 – 00:55:23

Because now you're just lying. Like, you're you're just lying to me. So don't tell me, like, and this is the whole, like, since sincere versus serious thing. Like, it would be insincere of me to say, lmao. Just starting.

Aaron

00:55:23 – 00:55:40

Like, that's just straight up lie. Like, that's totally a lie. And I I you're welcome to do whatever you want on social media. And if you wanna play a character, you can play a character. But saying things that are patently false, I have a hard time getting behind that.

Aaron

00:55:40 – 00:55:56

And so, honestly, if they're doing it if other people are doing that just for the lols or just for the likes, it's like, man, I respect that even less, which, of course, is, like, my own my own thing. But, yeah, I don't I don't think that's a very good idea, but I could be wrong.

Jason

00:55:57 – 00:56:11

I mean, it's it's that fine line. You know? People want people want that engagement or they want the connection. They wanna be talking and engaging with people, but, again, at what cost? Because sometimes you have to lean a little one way or the other.

Jason

00:56:12 – 00:56:19

I I we could talk about that for hours. I have many opinions as as most people in the space know. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:56:20 – 00:56:21

We're we've got a couple

Jason

00:56:21 – 00:56:49

of minutes left with you, and this is this has been a really awesome conversation. Again, I'm really honored that you spent an hour with us today just talking about everything. And I guess I I guess I wanna know what's what's, before I ask you this one. In your time here, as far as being a developer just in the career field and or in this industry, like, what are some takeaways that you've learned that you've sorta carried with you throughout what you're doing?

Aaron

00:56:51 – 00:57:46

Oh goodness. I think, I think one takeaway, not even necessarily from career, but more from, like, being terminally online, is everyone wants to feel important. And so, that has helped me when I like let's say I, like, make a video and somebody comes in with a critique that's like, well, you did it this way, but, you know, you should've done it the other way. There would have been a time in my life where I would have been, like, willing to argue with that person online. And now I look at it and I'm like, you know, that person just wants to feel like they're very smart.

Aaron

00:57:47 – 00:58:19

And, you know, whether or not they're right or wrong is is somewhat irrelevant, not totally irrelevant. But the thing that they want is to feel, like they're important and that the things they do are meaningful. And so now I just and I just don't really argue with people. Like, I don't argue with people because the only it's not really an argument over facts or reality. It's them saying, hey, I'm also smart or I'm also important.

Aaron

00:58:20 – 00:58:36

And it's I used to take that as a personal, like, attack on my, my published work. And then I realized it's not anything about me. It's they they want they want something out of their life. And so now it's just like, hey. That's a great idea.

Aaron

00:58:36 – 00:58:44

Thanks for that. Or if I disagree, I don't know. I I I don't I don't think I agree with that. Thanks, though. It's just like, move on.

Aaron

00:58:44 – 00:58:58

I don't really argue with people. And that has been, I think, both freeing and also, like, a better way to exist. And if people are, like, trying to pick fights and you just hit them with a, hey. That's a great comment. Thank you.

Aaron

00:58:58 – 00:59:29

Like, oh, well, that just took all the that just took all the wind out of the fight sale, didn't it? And so that's, I think, one thing less about, you know, work and more about being terminally online is people just feel important, and there are times when you can, like, you can do that for other people. And that's incredibly, like, powerful. And then there are times that they're like, I just wanna fight you because I wanna prove how smart I am, and you can just opt out of those fights. And I have started opting out, and it's so nice existence.

Jason

00:59:30 – 00:59:37

Sorry. I'm just writing notes here to myself. Stop telling everyone they're wrong. Hey. Got it.

Jason

00:59:37 – 00:59:47

Alright. Got it. Alright. Last question for you, and we're gonna wrap up here with some some where can we see you next. But what does success look like to Aaron Francis?

Aaron

00:59:54 – 01:00:41

We'll constrain it to just work. I think success at work looks like, Steve and I making more than we made at PlanetScale. I feel like that's we'll just call it that. I mean, there's some extent to which there's a lot more involved, like, you know, we could take off at noon every day, and we've got, like, these assets that are self sustaining and all of this stuff. But I think in reality, like, if Steve and I can hit old levels of salary with the kind of, like, freedom, that we have being, you know, owner operators of a small business, I feel like that would be a massive, massive success.

Aaron

01:00:41 – 01:00:50

You know, of course, I wanna make 5 times what I made at PlanetScale. But if I can, you know, live a quiet life and work with my hands, that seems pretty good to me.

Jason

01:00:52 – 01:01:11

I like that. Everybody's everybody answers that one differently. I love hearing everyone's responses because they're so you know, they're they're personal to that person. And, again, it it shapes what everybody thinks about just just life and success in general. This has been really awesome, Aaron, and I really appreciate you.

Jason

01:01:12 – 01:01:16

And, when we do meet, eventually, I owe you a diet Coke.

Aaron

01:01:16 – 01:01:18

Oh, man. I would love that.

Jason

01:01:18 – 01:01:26

At least one. At least one. Where, where or what can we expect from you in the the coming months here? Where can we see? You have some new videos coming out.

Jason

01:01:26 – 01:01:32

Are you speaking anytime soon? Hint, hint, I know, but please feel free to mention it.

Aaron

01:01:33 – 01:01:45

Yeah. So you can always follow me here on Twitter where I am always all the time every day. And, Yep. I do YouTube as well. So you can find me over there.

Aaron

01:01:45 – 01:01:47

I think it's maybe I think it's Aaron defrances.

Jason

01:01:47 – 01:01:48

I should know that.

Aaron

01:01:48 – 01:02:13

I think it's Aaron defrances over there. The very next thing, that I am working on is a SQLite course. So if you are SQLite curious, then you could go to high performance SQLite dot com and sign up for the list there. We will be launching that, early access on Thursday of this week. So I had to get back to work.

Aaron

01:02:14 – 01:02:29

So yep. That'll be there. And then my next, and I think the only speaking thing that I have booked right now is, I am going Lyricon. So Lyricon is the Lyricel conference. It's coming to Dallas where I live.

Aaron

01:02:29 – 01:02:45

I emceed last year's in Nashville, and I am going to be, emceeing again. So late August, I'll be, up there making some jokes and running the show. And so I'm very excited about that.

Jason

01:02:46 – 01:03:05

Well, I think we're all very excited for you and for the future of TryHard Studios. You and Steve are doing some amazing stuff. I look forward to seeing some clips. And if you wanna throw or softball any of your your task material for Laracon, my way, I'll I'll certainly tell you I'll certainly tell you you're wrong. Or that

Aaron

01:03:05 – 01:03:22

I appreciate that. I do I do love workshopping jokes, and, I think to my wife's chagrin or delight, I'm not sure which one. She's normally the one I'm workshopping jokes on. But I I feel like I feel like it's mostly delight. Sometimes she groans, but mostly it's delightful.

Jason

01:03:22 – 01:03:29

Right now in your head, you're replaying the eye roll, aren't you? Because because all lives have it. All lives have it.

Aaron

01:03:29 – 01:03:43

We, we do a thing. I say we, but it's mostly me. It's called joke review where, like, if we've gone to, you know, a dinner party with friends or something, and then we come home and we go over the best jokes of the night. And I'm like, hey, babe. Do you remember when I said this?

Aaron

01:03:43 – 01:03:48

Or do you remember when you said this? And she's like, yes. I do. That was very good. And so we we do joke review.

Aaron

01:03:48 – 01:03:52

It's very important that we workshop our material in the Francis household.

Jason

01:03:52 – 01:03:59

I love that. Oh my god. What a what a what a cool thing. I'm gonna start doing that with my wife. I'm sure it's gonna really go over well.

Jason

01:03:59 – 01:03:59

It's gonna

Aaron

01:03:59 – 01:04:00

go over great.

Jason

01:04:00 – 01:04:01

It's gonna go well. I'll keep

Aaron

01:04:02 – 01:04:10

with jokes that she told and be like, hell, babe. You really killed when you told that joke. And then she'll get into joke review, and then you can kinda turn it to make it 5050. So you know?

Jason

01:04:11 – 01:04:16

Joke review in the Taurus house is gonna be lit, and I'm gonna blame you. So I appreciate

Aaron

01:04:16 – 01:04:16

it. Do.

Jason

01:04:16 – 01:04:29

Well, everybody, let's give Aaron his flowers. Round of applause. 100 hearts. We're gonna send him off for season 3 finale. Again, thank you so much to Aaron for hanging out with us for an hour here.

Jason

01:04:29 – 01:04:42

It's been a really cool conversation. We will see everybody Friday. Just for a little season 3 recap, we'll hang out and and shoot the poop. But, again, it's great seeing everyone in the listener section. Thank you again to Erin.

Jason

01:04:42 – 01:04:53

And, remember, it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Have a great day. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you learned something new today. Don't forget.

Jason

01:04:53 – 01:05:05

If you found value in the show today, please give us a follow on your preferred podcast platform. You can also find links to our guests, hosts, and more in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and have a great day.

Interview with Aaron Francis

Transcript

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