Aaron Francis

Aaron is joined this week by Caleb Porzio (back-to-back weeks!) and Daniel Coulbourne (first-time guest!) to dive deep into prep for Laracon, text editors, something called the "side eye verify", Aaron's recent blog post, and a whole lot more. Sponsored by LaraJobs & Screencasting.com. Interested in sponsoring Mostly Technical? Head to https://mostlytechnical.com/sponsor to learn more. 00:00 I Was A Reply Guy 04:38 Power Broker / King Maker 11:00 Torchlight Update 16:37 Editor Talk 28:24 Eeking Out 36:31 Cancelled Plans 38:33 Give Credit Where It's Due 40:43 The Circles Were Good 52:06 He Did It Again 55:48This One's On You 01:05:56 Mafioso Wisdom 01:09:36 A Little Bit Of Laracon 01:23:26 Well Gang... 01:24:26 Gross-Squeamish 01:31:25 Event Sourcing Will Save Me

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Transcript

Aaron

00:00:00 – 00:00:04

Welcome back to Mostly Technical fake Ian Landsman, who is also Caleb Porzio.

Caleb

00:00:04 – 00:00:10

Oh, dude. How did I not practice my impression since the last time I attempted?

Aaron

00:00:10 – 00:00:11

I don't know. You got a lot of feedback.

Caleb

00:00:12 – 00:00:17

Oh, I I did think a way to improve the impression is just to do a Seinfeld impression

Aaron

00:00:17 – 00:00:17

That is

Caleb

00:00:17 – 00:00:20

with Ian. Just be, like best way to yes. Be, like, no,

Aaron

00:00:20 – 00:00:22

Eren. No. Yes. I lost

Caleb

00:00:22 – 00:00:25

the perfect note. Ian impression.

Aaron

00:00:25 – 00:00:28

It's always squeaking. He's always, like, squeaking, and I'm

Daniel

00:00:28 – 00:00:30

really excited to say the next thing.

Aaron

00:00:30 – 00:00:44

He is, but he's also always holding back and letting me finish talking. So he's it's the perfect it's the perfect combo. He's always very excited, but he lets me finish. And welcome to the pod, mister Daniel Colbourne. Not holding back.

Aaron

00:00:44 – 00:00:46

Not letting you finish. Carry on.

Caleb

00:00:46 – 00:00:47

Deac is in the hall.

Aaron

00:00:48 – 00:01:05

Yes. Yes. As they say. There are some people there are maybe 4 people that listen to this show that don't listen to y'all's show, but not this is probably just the 4 of them. So you 2 have a show together called No Plans to Merge, which you record sometime.

Caleb

00:01:05 – 00:01:07

We used to record it a lot.

Aaron

00:01:07 – 00:01:09

We used to record it a lot more.

Caleb

00:01:09 – 00:01:10

So yeah.

Aaron

00:01:10 – 00:01:18

Now it's just now it's just, whenever whenever the mood strikes you, which frankly is not often enough, which is why we show it. Never exist. Hate recording.

Caleb

00:01:20 – 00:01:25

But, yes, that's true. And Aaron, you I mean, like, this is kind of a full circle moment, Aaron Francis.

Aaron

00:01:25 – 00:01:27

Like Tell me. We're on your show.

Caleb

00:01:28 – 00:01:32

Mhmm. You, like, you were an all star listener of no plans listeners.

Aaron

00:01:32 – 00:01:33

Reply guy.

Caleb

00:01:33 – 00:01:45

He was a reply guy. I Mhmm. That's how I knew of your name. It was just, like, you know, like, certain people, like, Matt Swanson or whatever, like Mhmm. They just become a name that we know because, like, oh, yeah.

Caleb

00:01:45 – 00:01:54

The this, like, listener replied this very good point and good response to this thing or whatever, and then, like, what was his name? And then eventually, we start kind of getting the name right, and

Aaron

00:01:54 – 00:02:00

Eventually, it sticks. And at this point, I think I'm I'm a reply guy. Exactly. We're just a reply guy. Reply guy.

Aaron

00:02:00 – 00:02:22

We're just yes. I remember one of the funniest bits. This was back when I was building the shed quarters, and I was listening to, like like, all the episodes of no plans to merge, just back episodes to get through them all. And still to this day, one of the funniest bits is I think it was Caleb that was talking about meeting up with this billionaire guy. He's like, yeah.

Aaron

00:02:22 – 00:02:32

He's this billionaire Christian guy, and Daniel says no such thing. And it just kept going. Barely acknowledged it. But they just said no such thing.

Caleb

00:02:36 – 00:02:37

Oh, that's

Aaron

00:02:37 – 00:02:38

one of my favorite bits.

Caleb

00:02:38 – 00:02:38

It's good.

Aaron

00:02:38 – 00:02:39

It's a good bet.

Caleb

00:02:40 – 00:02:40

Who the guy was.

Daniel

00:02:41 – 00:02:50

My mom, every once in a while, will, will message me a throwaway bit that Caleb didn't acknowledge, and she caught. And I was like, thank you, mother. Yeah. Glad you're listening very attentively.

Caleb

00:02:51 – 00:02:51

There is

Aaron

00:02:51 – 00:02:55

there is a lot of I do that too. I feel like Daniel has so many good throwaway bits.

Caleb

00:02:56 – 00:03:15

And I try to acknowledge them because, like, when you're talking to Daniel, this it can be a difficult thing. You know? Like, it's just it's like, are we gonna can we you know? And just the other day, I don't know if you got this, Daniel, but we're on a call, and he said, oh, it was some, like, deep Veggie Tales reference. And it was just you know, I just said something.

Caleb

00:03:15 – 00:03:31

You know, it was, like, meet me in Saint Louis or something. It wasn't that, but something to that effect, and and he just, like, dropped it super quick. But I'm in the middle of, like, I'm already on the soapbox, and I just keep going. And I tried to work it back in the conversation to tell you that I knew about him. But this is talking to Daniel.

Caleb

00:03:31 – 00:03:34

It's they're just they're loaded. You know?

Aaron

00:03:34 – 00:03:42

And they're and they're just, like the the best part is he doesn't give his own comments too much credit. Like, he doesn't he doesn't, like

Caleb

00:03:42 – 00:03:44

Mm-mm. Say it. He's not waiting for it yet.

Aaron

00:03:44 – 00:03:46

Big laugh. It's just like

Daniel

00:03:46 – 00:03:46

No. No.

Aaron

00:03:46 – 00:03:51

If you if you appreciated it, you'll doubly appreciate it. But if you missed it, you missed Like,

Caleb

00:03:51 – 00:03:51

so long

Daniel

00:03:51 – 00:03:58

as it's done. For you. It's like, I have a dopamine disorder that can only be fulfilled by saying this right now. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:03:59 – 00:04:04

I think I think in the last episode, Caleb said something like, yeah. I do do that. And Dana went

Daniel

00:04:04 – 00:04:04

doo doo.

Aaron

00:04:04 – 00:04:09

And that was it. He just he just whispered doo doo into the mic.

Caleb

00:04:09 – 00:04:15

Yep. It it that at the I mean, doo doo is one of those ones at this point. I think I recorded literally a podcast today.

Aaron

00:04:15 – 00:04:17

I listened to it this morning, and

Caleb

00:04:17 – 00:04:18

you said, doo doo

Daniel

00:04:18 – 00:04:19

doo. Yeah.

Caleb

00:04:19 – 00:04:21

And it's like, and in that split second,

Aaron

00:04:21 – 00:04:24

it's, like, do I acknowledge the doo doo? You gotta acknowledge it. You know?

Caleb

00:04:24 – 00:04:25

You gotta acknowledge it. You gotta

Aaron

00:04:25 – 00:04:28

at least acknowledge doo doo. Okay.

Caleb

00:04:28 – 00:04:31

So this is all true. Aaron, welcome to the show.

Aaron

00:04:31 – 00:04:36

Hey. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me on, Mostly No Plans to Merge. It is good to be here.

Aaron

00:04:36 – 00:04:43

I am honored. We have some topics. I know you guys are, like, you guys are freewheeling. You don't do topics, but I I got some topics.

Daniel

00:04:43 – 00:04:45

I got some topics. We I appreciate the discipline.

Aaron

00:04:46 – 00:04:54

Okay. We don't have to talk about them. I got some topics. I'm gonna give you a rundown, and then we can talk about any or none. But I got one.

Aaron

00:04:54 – 00:05:05

We got to talk about any or some of these topics that you wanna talk about in any order. And then you can also throw out your own topics that we can intersperse because these are very these are very Aaron centric. I I gotta be honest. Okay. Here we go.

Aaron

00:05:05 – 00:05:23

Topics are Arlinda, whose name is Kelsey, started last week. I went to Boise. I recorded a podcast in the KITT Studios, which is previously ConvertKit. A little Twitter x thing going on there. Steve was in the hospital for an entire week, and I'm sorry.

Aaron

00:05:24 – 00:05:30

Lyricon is next week, and you're both speaking. So that's that's the list I have.

Daniel

00:05:30 – 00:05:31

You're doing something there too, aren't you?

Aaron

00:05:32 – 00:05:36

I am. Yes. I am I am not speaking, but I will be speaking if that makes sense. Mhmm.

Caleb

00:05:36 – 00:05:38

So why are you not speaking, Aaron?

Aaron

00:05:38 – 00:05:40

I'm not giving a talk.

Caleb

00:05:40 – 00:05:42

Yeah. I know. Why are you not giving a talk?

Aaron

00:05:42 – 00:05:45

I don't have I don't have it in me. I got too many kids.

Caleb

00:05:45 – 00:05:46

I'm really proud of you, Erin. Yeah. This is a

Daniel

00:05:46 – 00:05:47

very good move.

Caleb

00:05:47 – 00:05:51

How pumped are you? How pumped do you just feel like this is gonna be amazing?

Aaron

00:05:51 – 00:05:53

I feel so pumped. Literally, just going to hang out.

Caleb

00:05:53 – 00:05:55

I mean, you gotta MC, but you know.

Aaron

00:05:55 – 00:06:02

Yeah. But MCing is, like, it it's it's jazz. You know? You can't prepare anything. I don't know anything about jazz, but from what I understand, they don't prepare

Caleb

00:06:02 – 00:06:04

anything. Like MCing. Yep.

Aaron

00:06:04 – 00:06:08

Yeah. And so you just get up there and you just bebop, and you just, you know, you're like, hey. Hey. How's your father? How are we doing?

Aaron

00:06:08 – 00:06:11

Hell, here we go. Next guy. And that's kind of it.

Caleb

00:06:23 – 00:06:25

You need to tell us, did you message Taylor?

Daniel

00:06:25 – 00:06:27

Did you shoot Josh's case?

Aaron

00:06:27 – 00:06:29

Reason this isn't Am I the am I the puppet master?

Daniel

00:06:30 – 00:06:31

You want a Krissy Knoll?

Caleb

00:06:31 – 00:06:45

There's no way that in a in a time period of Aaron's life where it's not, like, easy to block out a bunch of time to go travel somewhere Mhmm. It's in his backyard. Mhmm. Give it to us.

Aaron

00:06:45 – 00:06:47

Give it to us straight. Little suspicious, isn't it?

Daniel

00:06:47 – 00:06:48

Yeah. Suspect.

Aaron

00:06:50 – 00:06:59

Well, you know, Taylor and I Taylor and I talk. You know, we talk at, you know, maybe one message every month or so. So we're like Yep. We're we're super tight.

Caleb

00:06:59 – 00:07:00

In Taylor terms?

Aaron

00:07:00 – 00:07:01

That's a lot.

Caleb

00:07:01 – 00:07:02

That's a lot.

Aaron

00:07:02 – 00:07:02

That's a whole lot.

Caleb

00:07:02 – 00:07:04

You're annoying. Message him, and

Aaron

00:07:04 – 00:07:07

he'll respond with, yeah. And I'm like, I made it. He's like, yeah.

Caleb

00:07:08 – 00:07:10

We just had a fruitful conversation.

Aaron

00:07:11 – 00:07:24

So, you know, a while back, I heard he was checking out Dallas, and I messaged him and said, something like, I would love for Lyricon to be in Dallas, and I think he hit me with a thumbs up. So I guess you could say I'm a power broker.

Daniel

00:07:24 – 00:07:25

I don't know. Kingmaker.

Aaron

00:07:26 – 00:07:36

Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm pulling the strings back here. It did it is a little it is a it's in to my advantage, I must admit, that I do not have to travel anywhere.

Caleb

00:07:37 – 00:07:43

How brutal is it right now? Like, should we all be mad at you? Live through weather. Weather. Oh,

Aaron

00:07:46 – 00:07:52

I'm not gonna lie. It's gonna be pretty bad. It's gonna be pretty bad. Yeah. Okay.

Aaron

00:07:52 – 00:08:12

It's gonna be bad. If you're, like, staying I think, Dave Hicking, producer Dave, friend of the pod Dave, is staying, like, 10 minutes 10 minute walk from the venue. He's like, yeah. I'm gonna walk. And I looked up the route, and it's, like, under, you know, a 6 lane highway, and it's gonna be literally a 105 degrees.

Aaron

00:08:12 – 00:08:13

I'm kinda

Daniel

00:08:13 – 00:08:16

Well, then underneath the highway, it'll be a 175. Right?

Aaron

00:08:16 – 00:08:17

Yeah. Probably.

Caleb

00:08:17 – 00:08:18

Emissions.

Aaron

00:08:18 – 00:08:28

Yeah. We we have a little bit of a a heat dome going on here in Dallas. So it's one thing we have going for us is it doesn't get cool at night. So if it's hot during the day, it's gonna be hot at night. So that's awesome.

Daniel

00:08:28 – 00:08:30

Not like being hot at night.

Aaron

00:08:30 – 00:08:36

No. We love that. Yeah. So that rooftop bar, whatever, the after dark,

Caleb

00:08:36 – 00:08:36

I think it's

Aaron

00:08:36 – 00:08:39

on a rooftop bar. It's gonna be hot.

Caleb

00:08:39 – 00:08:40

So hopefully it's inside.

Daniel

00:08:40 – 00:08:49

Yeah. Yeah. You know, last year, we had to all go to the rooftop to escape the deafening noise of a band on

Aaron

00:08:49 – 00:08:54

each floor. True. We had to go to the rooftop and still shout in each other's faces.

Daniel

00:08:54 – 00:08:54

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

00:08:54 – 00:08:55

So we're gonna really have

Daniel

00:08:55 – 00:08:59

to do some volume management. So I'm gonna delegate to you to be on top of that.

Aaron

00:09:00 – 00:09:08

Yeah. So contrary to what you may believe, I don't know every proprietor of restaurants here in Dallas, and so I don't really have an in or an advantage.

Daniel

00:09:08 – 00:09:09

Well, no. But you know

Aaron

00:09:09 – 00:09:10

you know how to talk to people

Daniel

00:09:11 – 00:09:11

down there.

Aaron

00:09:11 – 00:09:14

I do. Yeah. That is a good point. I I

Caleb

00:09:14 – 00:09:15

I get shot good point.

Daniel

00:09:15 – 00:09:17

If I just approach.

Caleb

00:09:17 – 00:09:28

Although, you do not sound like you're from Dallas as far as Dallas accents that I know, which are are very few. But right? Like, you have a pretty mild Texas accent. Right?

Aaron

00:09:28 – 00:09:39

I appreciate that. That's what I'm going for. Yeah. Here in Dallas, we don't have a lot of accents, in my opinion. Out east, pretty pretty strong Texas accents.

Aaron

00:09:39 – 00:09:47

All the west Texas. Yeah. And and out west as well. Out in Lubbock, you get you get a lot more accents. But here in Dallas, not not so much a thing.

Aaron

00:09:47 – 00:09:49

We're big city folk. You know?

Caleb

00:09:49 – 00:09:55

Mhmm. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is all great news, Aaron Francis, about Lyricon.

Aaron

00:09:55 – 00:09:56

Yeah.

Caleb

00:09:56 – 00:10:14

Yeah. Music at Lyricon, it like, as a music person, you you're just trained to, like, hate the people who just wanna talk and don't wanna hear your music. Mhmm. But in a situation like that, it's like, I wish this could work, but just basically never played live music around a conference for me. You know?

Aaron

00:10:14 – 00:10:22

Yeah. Last year, I felt I felt so much secondhand embarrassment for the band that went on, like, in the venue. Yeah.

Caleb

00:10:22 – 00:10:24

Right. Everybody just, like, cleared the room.

Aaron

00:10:24 – 00:10:24

Walked out.

Caleb

00:10:24 – 00:10:26

So, like, oh, well, now we can't be in this room. Now

Aaron

00:10:26 – 00:10:27

we can't

Caleb

00:10:27 – 00:10:28

talk. So Yeah. And

Aaron

00:10:28 – 00:10:39

there was one guy, Brandon Baer from, whatever his fly whatever his service is. He, like, sat on the 3rd row and listened to the band, and I was like, good for you, Brandon. That's nice.

Daniel

00:10:39 – 00:10:39

Respectful. Yeah.

Caleb

00:10:40 – 00:10:41

Yeah. That's a good guy

Aaron

00:10:41 – 00:10:44

right there. Control. Yeah. That's a good guy. Yeah.

Aaron

00:10:44 – 00:10:49

But, yeah, I was like I felt so much I had to leave out of secondhand embarrassment

Caleb

00:10:49 – 00:10:49

because

Aaron

00:10:49 – 00:10:52

I was like, I can't imagine. It was hard to imagine.

Caleb

00:10:52 – 00:10:52

I mean,

Aaron

00:10:52 – 00:10:56

I can. I've done it. I've given a talk to absolutely nobody, and it is it was traumatic,

Caleb

00:10:56 – 00:11:02

and so I don't wanna see this again. Oh, okay. Well, let's actually cover one of your topics.

Aaron

00:11:02 – 00:11:03

Oh, wow. Okay.

Caleb

00:11:03 – 00:11:04

Torchlight. No. No.

Aaron

00:11:04 – 00:11:07

No. I wasn't on the list. You're supposed to know her.

Caleb

00:11:07 – 00:11:12

We just have to follow-up. We just have to follow-up. Alright. But Aaron did send me he found the database.

Aaron

00:11:12 – 00:11:14

I found the database. It exists.

Caleb

00:11:14 – 00:11:18

Following this, Daniel? Did you hear about this torchlight Yes. Situation? Okay. Yeah.

Aaron

00:11:18 – 00:11:33

We found the deal. I wanna hear I wanna hear I wanna hear your, your thoughts on it because I think Caleb's crazy, but I found the database 36100 users in the database, which is a lot. That's that's better than a poke in the eye. Mhmm. So I think there is something that can be done there.

Aaron

00:11:34 – 00:11:36

Oh, many tens of dollars.

Daniel

00:11:36 – 00:11:37

Very good.

Aaron

00:11:37 – 00:11:38

Yeah. So, like Yeah. Let's say

Caleb

00:11:39 – 00:11:51

I mean, these are better than just people on an email list because they're actually using your thing, and you can see how recently they've made API requests. Right? Yes. So let's say maybe could you convert 20% of these? To what?

Caleb

00:11:51 – 00:11:54

To paying customers? No. No? Okay.

Aaron

00:11:54 – 00:11:54

I don't

Daniel

00:11:54 – 00:11:55

think so. Why?

Aaron

00:11:55 – 00:12:03

I just don't I don't know. I don't think people are gonna pay more than $5 for syntax highlighting.

Daniel

00:12:03 – 00:12:33

I think Caleb's argument from last week is correct, which is, if you run a business that makes money off of code and you're Mhmm. Posting documentation, whether that's open source, whether that's, like, I'm Century and these are my Laravel integration docs or whatever. Right? Like, those people want to not think about it and, have the best thing for some money is fine.

Aaron

00:12:34 – 00:12:36

So you're you're on team you're on team Caleb here.

Daniel

00:12:36 – 00:12:38

Why do you hate money, Aaron?

Aaron

00:12:38 – 00:12:40

Okay. We've already been over this.

Caleb

00:12:40 – 00:12:42

I do not love money because it is

Aaron

00:12:42 – 00:12:47

the root of all kinds of evil. But I I a strong like. I like it a lot.

Daniel

00:12:47 – 00:12:49

That kinds of is doing a lot of work.

Aaron

00:12:49 – 00:12:56

Isn't it? Yeah. I don't know if that's ESV or not. Yeah. That might be revisionist, actually.

Aaron

00:12:56 – 00:12:57

Maybe it is

Daniel

00:12:57 – 00:12:59

actually the message. Evil. Yeah.

Caleb

00:13:01 – 00:13:14

I just wanna be clear, but I just wanted to follow-up so the listener could hear the numbers, and they can make their own decision. I'm still not sure it's, you know, it's a good idea at all, but I like Ian's thing. It's, like, just pay somebody else, go 5050. They do all the work, and then And now let them, like, make you money. Why not?

Caleb

00:13:14 – 00:13:15

I've I've

Aaron

00:13:15 – 00:13:16

got a couple of people.

Daniel

00:13:16 – 00:13:17

I think you should.

Caleb

00:13:17 – 00:13:17

You think

Aaron

00:13:17 – 00:13:18

I should do that?

Caleb

00:13:18 – 00:13:21

Yeah. Why not? Partner with thunk. No. Don't partner

Aaron

00:13:21 – 00:13:22

with us. This is No. They don't wanna

Caleb

00:13:22 – 00:13:22

do it.

Daniel

00:13:22 – 00:13:25

There's not enough here for us. Daniel, you should

Aaron

00:13:25 – 00:13:26

you should do it, Thunk. I'll give you 50%.

Daniel

00:13:27 – 00:13:31

I don't think 50% is enough. But if you for for someone else who wants to do it

Aaron

00:13:31 – 00:13:34

other loser who doesn't need money like you do.

Caleb

00:13:34 – 00:13:35

I'd be

Daniel

00:13:35 – 00:13:46

for a, you know, for a 22 year old fresh out of, Internet college, Jeffrey Weis Internet College. That's a that could be a it could be a stream

Aaron

00:13:46 – 00:13:55

of anything. Yeah. Could be a thing. Yeah. I got a couple of yo dudes after Ian after Ian said that, you know, yo dude picked me.

Daniel

00:13:55 – 00:13:57

Dude, I yo dude ed Ian, by the way.

Aaron

00:13:57 – 00:13:58

After his

Daniel

00:13:58 – 00:14:00

thing, I yo dude ed him.

Aaron

00:14:00 – 00:14:02

What did you say? You wanna do it?

Daniel

00:14:03 – 00:14:06

No. I said we could do it. But then I also hit him with, like, a

Aaron

00:14:06 – 00:14:10

caveat of, like, I would need assurances. Yeah. It

Daniel

00:14:10 – 00:14:12

was funny. And he was like, okay.

Caleb

00:14:13 – 00:14:32

Yeah. But I should have you know that that day, I ripped torchlight out of the new project and built my own code mirror thing because I needed some stuff and Yep. Like, special stuff as you saw with, like, my talk, like Mhmm. Torchlight, whatever. And I I'm back to, like, I might have to I'm either writing a blade parser

Aaron

00:14:32 – 00:14:34

or using torchlight. Like, it's Oh, great.

Caleb

00:14:34 – 00:14:35

So just so you know this.

Aaron

00:14:35 – 00:14:37

Not fun, is it?

Caleb

00:14:37 – 00:14:40

It's, it's still very it's a good thing. It's good.

Daniel

00:14:40 – 00:14:42

There are other reasons for you

Aaron

00:14:42 – 00:14:45

to write a blade parser, Caleb, but that's that's neither here nor there. True.

Caleb

00:14:46 – 00:14:59

But, honestly, blade is your killer feature for Torchlight. It's obscure languages. That's really what's up. Like Blade, antlers, alpine Yeah. You can't find blade in prism, highlight JS, anything like that.

Caleb

00:14:59 – 00:15:00

Yep. So Well,

Aaron

00:15:00 – 00:15:28

you wanna hear you wanna hear the technical reason why you can't because, the underlying highlighter, Shiki, is the only one that uses TextMate grammars because they're so freaking heavy. So, like, highlight JS and Prism and all that, they just use regex. It's just, like, best guess. But Shiki uses the TextMate grammars, which is what Versus code uses. So you're sitting on top of an entire ecosystem that is dedicated to, like, keeping this stuff up to date.

Aaron

00:15:28 – 00:15:29

So that's just real trick.

Caleb

00:15:29 – 00:15:32

Of TextMate grammars. What is TextMate?

Aaron

00:15:32 – 00:15:42

TextMate is pre sublime text, I wanna say. Super old, not to be confused with just language. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

00:15:42 – 00:16:04

Exactly. Yeah. And for some reason, the TextMate grammars have just become the standard for, like, syntax highlighting, and so Versus code uses them, as well. And they're they are in in and of themselves, gnarly regexes, but there's there's a lot more power. They have, like, snippets and embeddings.

Aaron

00:16:04 – 00:16:15

And so, like, if you have PHP that has HTML embedded in it, a text make grammar can handle that, whereas a, prism or highlight has, trouble with that. Gotcha. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's interesting.

Caleb

00:16:16 – 00:16:27

Okay. Good to know. Yeah. D h h, when he was switching over to Neovim or something, he was like, I don't he either uses TextMate still or needed to move over all his TextMate. That was, like, his thing.

Caleb

00:16:27 – 00:16:35

It was, like, has to be tech. And I was like, I thought TextMaker was an editor, but now it sounds like configuration or something. We've cracked the code.

Aaron

00:16:35 – 00:16:36

Yeah. Something like that.

Daniel

00:16:36 – 00:16:43

Okay. Something like that. What what's the, what what's that Rust text editor? Zed Zed Zed?

Caleb

00:16:43 – 00:16:44

Zed. Zed.

Daniel

00:16:44 – 00:16:46

Yeah. Is that gonna happen?

Caleb

00:16:46 – 00:16:47

It's happening.

Daniel

00:16:47 – 00:16:49

It but is it gonna happen?

Caleb

00:16:50 – 00:16:51

Oh, no. You

Aaron

00:16:51 – 00:16:55

don't think it's gonna happen? I don't I don't know anything about it.

Caleb

00:16:55 – 00:16:58

I mean, you don't have you heard of it, Aron?

Aaron

00:16:58 – 00:17:00

I've heard of it, but I don't know anything about it.

Caleb

00:17:01 – 00:17:05

It looks sick, and Thorsten Ball or Thorsten Bell? Thorsten Ball That's the

Aaron

00:17:05 – 00:17:07

only reason I've heard of it is because of him.

Caleb

00:17:07 – 00:17:14

He's, like, the only one, like, left writing, like, good long form blog posts that are super deep and interesting on the Internet.

Aaron

00:17:14 – 00:17:17

So Yeah. Him him and and Aaron Francis.

Caleb

00:17:17 – 00:17:18

And Aaron Francis.

Daniel

00:17:18 – 00:17:19

Yeah. That

Aaron

00:17:21 – 00:17:23

is short. That's, like, 25 100 words.

Daniel

00:17:23 – 00:17:25

Guy draws 2 concentric circles and thinks he's

Caleb

00:17:27 – 00:17:35

Got him. I should okay. Thorsten Ball. Yeah. So Zed is, like, you know, whatever.

Caleb

00:17:35 – 00:17:49

It's a Rust editor. I think it's basically people who adore Sublime, but Sublime's old, whatever. It's, like, we want something really fast. And and Versus Code is is, my experience with Versus Code is getting worse because I think some of my extensions have memory leaks. Mhmm.

Caleb

00:17:49 – 00:17:50

Do you guys ever run across this?

Aaron

00:17:50 – 00:17:52

I do think I've never used these cases.

Daniel

00:17:52 – 00:17:53

Memory leaks.

Caleb

00:17:53 – 00:17:54

Do you use PHP Storm?

Aaron

00:17:55 – 00:17:55

I do.

Caleb

00:17:55 – 00:17:58

Yeah. Okay. Well, that's slow anyway.

Aaron

00:17:58 – 00:18:01

Yeah. That's just one big extension with a memory leak. I don't know if

Caleb

00:18:01 – 00:18:19

that's right. But whatever. I have to restart Versus code, like, every 3 or 4 days, which is wild. So I could see the mounting demand for Zed personally. But it doesn't have a lot of the things that I oh, here's my killer feature that I I won't use Zed until it has, Emmet.

Caleb

00:18:19 – 00:18:20

You guys use Emmet?

Aaron

00:18:20 – 00:18:21

Who's Emmet?

Daniel

00:18:21 – 00:18:25

I, don't use Emmet, but it seems like almost everyone does.

Caleb

00:18:25 – 00:18:30

So here's the thing about Emmet, Daniel, because I used to think that Emmet was and

Aaron

00:18:30 – 00:18:31

I thought this was cool,

Caleb

00:18:31 – 00:18:45

was just, like, CSS expansions. You know? Like, you type, like, div.bggray and hit tab, and it creates a div wrapping tags and classbggray, and you can do, like, attributes and do, like, times 5 and get 5 of them. That's Emmet. Aaron, you're familiar with Emmet?

Aaron

00:18:45 – 00:18:48

No. Never heard of this. Spent around forever. It's really cool. It's really cool.

Caleb

00:18:48 – 00:18:49

It's I don't

Daniel

00:18:49 – 00:18:53

know if you have someone like Caleb who uses it well, use it. It is, like, a little magical.

Caleb

00:18:54 – 00:19:16

Mhmm. Emmet's great. But here's here's why Emmet is why I can't live without Emmet right now, and I'm curious what you guys do. Emmet has, like, extra commands when you're working with HTML. So you can, like, have a section of code and wrap it in a div, or you can be on a tag, and I have it all mapped to keys, but I hit, like, m r, and then because that's, like, emmet and then r, and then it'll rename that tag in the opening and the close.

Caleb

00:19:17 – 00:19:34

I can m backspace, and it'll remove the opening and the close. I can m o, and it'll highlight the outer edge of that div. I can hit m I, and it'll highlight the inner div. So these are all things that, like, at this point, I can't edit HTML without. Like, I feel like a dummy.

Caleb

00:19:34 – 00:19:39

What do you guys do for this? Are you, like, if you need to rename a div, how are you renaming a div?

Daniel

00:19:39 – 00:19:40

I'm text editing.

Caleb

00:19:41 – 00:19:43

Yeah. So you're just, like, finding the closing div?

Aaron

00:19:44 – 00:19:44

Well,

Daniel

00:19:44 – 00:19:50

I mean, like, you know, I'm doing my base, like, a lot of times it's, like, you know, just command d to get the next div.

Caleb

00:19:50 – 00:19:50

50 divs.

Daniel

00:19:50 – 00:19:55

Yeah. Right. If it's super nested, then I'm just finding the closing div. Yeah. Usually, I'm collapsing first.

Daniel

00:19:56 – 00:19:57

Okay. Right.

Caleb

00:19:57 – 00:20:03

To the last minute and change it. Yeah. So I had these skips collapsing. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

Caleb

00:20:03 – 00:20:03

When it's collapsed.

Aaron

00:20:05 – 00:20:13

PHP store. I have I have 2 options. 1 is go to the opening tab tag and just rename it, and it automatically renames the closing tag.

Daniel

00:20:13 – 00:20:14

Oh, it keeps them here.

Aaron

00:20:14 – 00:20:31

It keeps them matched. Isn't that great? The other thing that I will sometimes do is inside like, if I'm inside a deeply nested thing, you can hit option up arrow, and it will do that, start to highlight group by group by group. So outer situation. Goes to the next tag out, next tag out.

Aaron

00:20:31 – 00:20:45

Yeah. And then once I get to the entire spot highlighted, then I just hit up arrow, and I'm at the beginning tag. So if I'm, like, deep in and I don't wanna reach for the mouse, I'll do option up, up, up, up, release option, hit up, and then rename the tag. Cool.

Caleb

00:20:45 – 00:20:46

And then

Aaron

00:20:46 – 00:20:47

it renames the bottom one.

Caleb

00:20:47 – 00:20:54

And do those same shortcuts work for, like, a PHP, like, function or something? Mhmm. Yeah. That's awesome. Outward, like, an if statement Yep.

Caleb

00:20:55 – 00:21:00

The function, and it's all the same keys. Yep. Exactly. That's great. It's good.

Caleb

00:21:00 – 00:21:17

It's good stuff. I love it. Yeah. That's something I've tried to, like I wanna bring this mapping to other languages as well, and I have, like, MR and PHP to rename symbol and in JavaScript and in HTML, but all the other ones are just too different. Like, Versus Code doesn't have a good, like, balance inside of PHP.

Caleb

00:21:17 – 00:21:20

You know? Have I?

Daniel

00:21:20 – 00:21:38

So. I must have talked on on the show at some point about, the my rename, my great complaints about, like, smart rename. But, like, if you have, like, I don't know, like, I use many different casings. Right? So, like, whatever you get your snake cases for

Caleb

00:21:38 – 00:21:39

Oh, yeah.

Daniel

00:21:39 – 00:21:45

For rat makers and your, kebab cases and your and your your camel cases and your

Aaron

00:21:45 – 00:21:47

title cases. If you have all those things in a file,

Daniel

00:21:48 – 00:22:03

there should be a way to, like, command d, select, select, select, select all of them, and then start typing. And then when you stop typing, analyze the thing you typed and then, like, re case it for the appropriate context. You know what I'm saying?

Caleb

00:22:03 – 00:22:05

I very much agree.

Aaron

00:22:05 – 00:22:06

So it's like so like

Daniel

00:22:06 – 00:22:21

if it's like, my first thing. Right? So like in one place, it's camel case my first thing and another place is my underscore first underscore thing. I wanna rename it to my second thing, but in all of the places have it cased in the same way that it was cased style.

Caleb

00:22:22 – 00:22:41

Where it was. I have the sidebar layout for the Flux site right now that's just getting massive, so there's all these a tags. And you know how, like, to detect the current thing, you have, like, request is. So you have h ref, request is, then I have another one that I don't remember what that does, and then the title of the thing. And the title matches the route name.

Caleb

00:22:41 – 00:22:58

It just has title case. You know? So I'm constantly going, like, d d d d change. And then depending on if I have, like, you know, finding supports different casing, it may have accidentally highlighted the upper case title, and then I just wipe out the upper case. You know?

Caleb

00:22:58 – 00:23:02

Or it's Gibson. I have to do it separately. So or like you've talked about this about, like,

Daniel

00:23:02 – 00:23:15

any, like, 2 word route. Right? Like, route resource, like, whatever, like, / The API. Worksites/ worksites. Right?

Daniel

00:23:16 – 00:23:23

And so it's like work dash sites, but then the thing that you're passing in will be actually like worksite camel case, you know, something like that.

Caleb

00:23:24 – 00:23:24

Yep. This is good.

Aaron

00:23:24 – 00:23:33

This is good audio content. I gotta admit. Talking about the different casings of of variables, people are definitely seeing this in their mind's eye.

Caleb

00:23:33 – 00:23:37

This dude editor talk is literally the most relatable developer talk ever.

Aaron

00:23:37 – 00:23:41

And, like, I am so basic, though. That's the problem.

Daniel

00:23:41 – 00:23:56

Here's the direction AI can go next. This is my whole thing is that like AI is actually like the only person qualified to rename stuff for me. True. Like this, right? Like they, they like the, there's no rejects you can write that makes it possible.

Aaron

00:23:56 – 00:23:56

I thought

Daniel

00:23:56 – 00:24:08

about it all the way. It's impossible. So AI could do it. And so the thing and I feel like cursor might go this way at some point. Like, they might actually make the AI text editing experience good enough.

Daniel

00:24:08 – 00:24:18

Right? But I feel like, right now AI is really good at like I completed a line. Now do that 10 more times. Right. Like I created a route.

Daniel

00:24:18 – 00:24:18

Now make another route.

Caleb

00:24:18 – 00:24:20

Exactly. Right. Yes.

Aaron

00:24:20 – 00:24:22

What's not good at is like I edited one route in

Daniel

00:24:22 – 00:24:27

a list of a 100. Now apply that same edit to all the other lines

Caleb

00:24:28 – 00:24:28

you

Aaron

00:24:28 – 00:24:28

know this

Caleb

00:24:28 – 00:24:33

is my life do you use supermaven what do you guys use for AI stuff you use nothing Aaron

Aaron

00:24:33 – 00:24:34

I use nothing

Daniel

00:24:34 – 00:24:35

just nothing okay

Caleb

00:24:36 – 00:24:38

no you use copilot or anything

Aaron

00:24:38 – 00:24:39

yeah you use any yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

Daniel

00:24:39 – 00:24:41

yeah I pay my subs $50

Caleb

00:24:42 – 00:24:44

Okay. People are loving Supermaven because it's super

Aaron

00:24:44 – 00:24:45

fast. Supermaven.

Daniel

00:24:45 – 00:24:48

Isn't everyone liking Claude? Isn't Claude the new

Caleb

00:24:48 – 00:24:50

Claude? Well, Claude's awesome. I've I've

Aaron

00:24:50 – 00:24:52

chatted with Claude, but in the browser all

Caleb

00:24:52 – 00:24:54

the time, but it's a browser only situation.

Daniel

00:24:54 – 00:24:57

Well, no. I think everyone's using Claude in cursor now.

Aaron

00:24:57 – 00:24:57

I think

Daniel

00:24:57 – 00:25:00

that's the new that's the new shiz. And that's probably what's

Caleb

00:25:00 – 00:25:03

up, but philosophically, I can't use cursor yet.

Aaron

00:25:03 – 00:25:04

I know. I can't

Caleb

00:25:04 – 00:25:05

use cursor yet.

Aaron

00:25:05 – 00:25:06

Because you haven't made a

Daniel

00:25:06 – 00:25:06

problem yet?

Caleb

00:25:07 – 00:25:13

Fine, but it's, like, he just wrapped Versus code. So Uh-huh. And Microsoft doesn't care, but

Aaron

00:25:13 – 00:25:15

I don't know if they this is a wrap this

Caleb

00:25:15 – 00:25:18

is a This is a wrap for us. Thing. Yeah. No. I know.

Caleb

00:25:18 – 00:25:24

We don't have to go down this road. I'm just saying. I'm at least gonna let, like, at least gonna wait out of principle.

Daniel

00:25:24 – 00:25:28

Dude, just think about, like, Caleb Porzio's make Claude awesome or make,

Aaron

00:25:28 – 00:25:30

what was it what was it even called?

Daniel

00:25:30 – 00:25:31

Cursor awesome.

Caleb

00:25:31 – 00:25:35

Cursor awesome. Yeah. And it feels like it would be really heavy. I don't know. Whatever.

Caleb

00:25:35 – 00:25:38

There's other reasons I'm not using cursor. Are you using cursor?

Daniel

00:25:38 – 00:25:39

I used it for a sec, but, like,

Aaron

00:25:39 – 00:25:44

I didn't see the value. But now people are talking about this command k feature, and I'm like, oh, maybe this is the move.

Caleb

00:25:45 – 00:25:55

And that's what you were describing. It's, like, you can I just wanna hit a button and then type into a thing of command, like, rename this to this? Even in just plain language

Daniel

00:25:55 – 00:25:57

That's what command 2 does.

Caleb

00:25:57 – 00:26:01

Okay. And it's, like, we know the context. We're gonna suggest the change.

Daniel

00:26:01 – 00:26:07

Yeah. And so then the other thing with with cursors chat that you can do, which is really cool, is in the chat you can, like,

Aaron

00:26:07 – 00:26:10

you can say file colon and reference a file

Daniel

00:26:11 – 00:26:14

in your thing. So it's like, hey, do this like it's done in this view.

Caleb

00:26:14 – 00:26:15

Oh, that's so And

Daniel

00:26:15 – 00:26:25

so and you it can have up to, like, code base level context, but you can also, like, specify certain files for it to use as context and stuff.

Aaron

00:26:25 – 00:26:26

That's sweet, dude.

Daniel

00:26:26 – 00:26:27

It's really cool.

Caleb

00:26:27 – 00:26:44

Supermaven is dumb as rocks. It's fast, and it's, like, really I do like it. Like, I got rid of Copilot ages ago, but it's dumb. It it, like there's so many times where you're, like, you're just copying the you're just referencing the other thing on this page and not using your brain at all.

Aaron

00:26:44 – 00:26:44

It's,

Caleb

00:26:44 – 00:26:50

like, clearly, I would not want that. I want to adapt this to, you know, various about.

Aaron

00:26:50 – 00:26:55

Yeah. I probably won't use any of the, like, the cursor. I'm not gonna switch I'm not gonna switch editors.

Caleb

00:26:55 – 00:26:56

That would be a big shift for you. So that

Aaron

00:26:56 – 00:26:56

would be Well,

Daniel

00:26:56 – 00:27:00

but it's it's just Versus Code. Right? Like, if you're already in Versus Code.

Aaron

00:27:00 – 00:27:13

Yeah. Well, and that's your folly. But, like, yeah, if you're already in Versus Code, you can sort it's sort of like a lateral shuffle. Yes. But I won't I'll I'm standing with Caleb on anti rappers, so I won't use it.

Aaron

00:27:13 – 00:27:15

Yeah. Do you and, do you and boss

Daniel

00:27:15 – 00:27:16

man Chris ever just, like, get in a Zoom call

Aaron

00:27:16 – 00:27:20

and talk about PHP storm? No. No. You missed that. Are we

Caleb

00:27:20 – 00:27:27

the only 2 people that use it? You're, like, 2 people I respect? Only 2 people who use Versus code in the Laravel community. Everybody uses PHP storm.

Aaron

00:27:27 – 00:27:32

Like Josh Siri uses it, but he comes from a JavaScript background. So what do you expect? Yeah. You know?

Caleb

00:27:32 – 00:27:37

Yeah. Right. Well, Jeffrey Wade declared it, like, the editor to use. Like, he was like, alright. I'm done.

Caleb

00:27:37 – 00:27:38

Like, it's PHPStorm.

Aaron

00:27:39 – 00:27:47

Oh, yeah. That's right. I think Christophe Rumble has a course maybe on making He does. Storm awesome or something. He does.

Caleb

00:27:47 – 00:27:48

Yeah. That's a cool name.

Aaron

00:27:49 – 00:27:52

It's a cool name. Yeah. Yeah. It is. I like that.

Aaron

00:27:52 – 00:27:54

This is content name.

Caleb

00:27:54 – 00:27:57

I am not upset about it. Content's more the merrier.

Aaron

00:27:58 – 00:28:05

K. We're we're understanding more of the nuance of, Caleb's inner business and rappers. But renames are yeah. No rappers.

Caleb

00:28:05 – 00:28:07

Renames? Fine. Yeah.

Aaron

00:28:07 – 00:28:10

But content is okay. Alright. I'm in trouble.

Daniel

00:28:10 – 00:28:15

I guess the the argument there is you were never gonna learn PHP Storm. So Never. Yeah.

Caleb

00:28:15 – 00:28:22

Yeah. Honestly, he did message me. He was, like, I wanna create a PHP Storm course, you know, pattern, whatever. And I was, like, great. Whatever.

Caleb

00:28:22 – 00:28:23

It's fine. Love it.

Aaron

00:28:23 – 00:28:26

Can we can we talk about make Versus Code awesome? Is that on the table?

Caleb

00:28:27 – 00:28:28

Yeah. Sure.

Aaron

00:28:28 – 00:28:29

How is that doing?

Caleb

00:28:29 – 00:28:30

This is my torch light.

Aaron

00:28:30 – 00:28:32

Yeah. Do you keep that do you keep that alive?

Caleb

00:28:32 – 00:28:52

I feel like I still see people talk about it. Yeah. I do because, it's be it's, you know, it has the patina of a course that has sat for a long time, and Patina. And the, you know, the the trend is bam. It's, like, we're just skating off rock bottom.

Caleb

00:28:52 – 00:28:54

There are $0 days

Aaron

00:28:54 – 00:28:55

in a

Caleb

00:28:55 – 00:29:03

row, but I it still makes, like if I do a if I do a Thanksgiving, what do you call that? Black Friday deal

Aaron

00:29:03 – 00:29:04

Mhmm.

Caleb

00:29:04 – 00:29:15

Situation. If I just go into ConvertKit, look at that that list, and just do the bare minimum to it Mhmm. I can eke out, like, 20 grand, 15 for sure, from Make You Just Got Awesome for the year.

Aaron

00:29:15 – 00:29:19

That's a good eke. Yeah. That's so bad. It still is, like, something.

Caleb

00:29:20 – 00:29:20

When you

Aaron

00:29:20 – 00:29:26

say eek, you you gotta, like, you gotta bring your eek number down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not a man of people if you're eking out 20 grand.

Aaron

00:29:26 – 00:29:26

Yeah.

Caleb

00:29:26 – 00:29:34

Nobody ekes out 20 grand. Yeah. I guess, let's say 15 grand. Not better, probably at this point.

Daniel

00:29:34 – 00:29:40

We come on here with our backwards hats, Caleb, and we're expecting people to relate to us. We can't just start, like, eking out 20 grand.

Caleb

00:29:41 – 00:29:52

So okay. And I think the only reason it ever makes any sales is because I have it in my Twitter bio. If it's true. Yeah. Otherwise, like, it would get 0 traffic, except for Josh Siri.

Caleb

00:29:52 – 00:29:52

Aaron

00:29:52 – 00:29:53

Josh Siri still talks about it.

Caleb

00:29:53 – 00:29:56

Yeah. The only person who's ever, like, given it love.

Aaron

00:29:58 – 00:29:58

But No.

Caleb

00:29:58 – 00:30:15

I mean, people have given it love, but the thing is I still think it is such a killer course. That's why I keep it around, because I just want other people to have access to it. Like, all that Emmett stuff, like, there's just so many things that, I don't know that I feel like I went to hell and back on.

Aaron

00:30:15 – 00:30:20

And You you make screencasts and stuff and you do conference talks. So, like, people get to

Daniel

00:30:20 – 00:30:22

see your pretty cool looking editor set up

Caleb

00:30:23 – 00:30:23

Mhmm.

Daniel

00:30:23 – 00:30:29

Fairly often. And so being able to just have an answer to their question about, like, what theme is that Yeah.

Aaron

00:30:29 – 00:30:35

That forces them to give you money is, like, great. That's great. This is such a great landing page. I'm just looking at it right now.

Caleb

00:30:35 – 00:30:36

This is this is good.

Aaron

00:30:36 – 00:30:39

This holds up. It's got good, it's got good patina, as

Daniel

00:30:39 – 00:30:40

I might say.

Caleb

00:30:40 – 00:30:52

Good. I I mean, I gave that this is the best example of me not being a designer just wrestling with something for ages until it looks okay. You know?

Aaron

00:30:52 – 00:30:53

Just, like good.

Caleb

00:30:53 – 00:30:58

Nonstop, but, yeah, it looks pretty crappy on a really wide monitor. So if

Aaron

00:30:58 – 00:31:02

you're eking out if you're eking out, if you're scraping by, if you're barely making it

Caleb

00:31:02 – 00:31:04

I'll plug it into more real numbers. I could, like,

Aaron

00:31:04 – 00:31:05

get the, like, what

Caleb

00:31:05 – 00:31:09

if we made in a month and and, like, this month, and it's probably, like Yeah.

Aaron

00:31:09 – 00:31:14

Give us this month. Give me give me July. And then give me and then give me, like, year to date.

Daniel

00:31:14 – 00:31:16

Keeping my mind that it was too hot to work in Europe in July.

Caleb

00:31:17 – 00:31:20

That's true. Okay. Now this course might be doing

Aaron

00:31:20 – 00:31:24

alright. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. What the hell? What?

Aaron

00:31:24 – 00:31:28

Is this Josh Siri? This is nuts. Unless I must be missing something.

Daniel

00:31:29 – 00:31:31

In the past like $80 in July.

Aaron

00:31:31 – 00:31:34

He's eking out 50 k. Yeah. This is crazy.

Caleb

00:31:34 – 00:31:36

In the past month, it's made $35100.

Aaron

00:31:36 – 00:31:37

What?

Caleb

00:31:37 – 00:31:38

What?

Aaron

00:31:38 – 00:31:41

Come on. Hey. Come on.

Caleb

00:31:41 – 00:31:43

So you're In in sleeping buffalo, that's

Daniel

00:31:43 – 00:31:43

$10 this year.

Aaron

00:31:43 – 00:31:46

That's enough. That's more than your house payment. Cap.

Caleb

00:31:46 – 00:31:49

I I almost wanna, like, share my screen on this thing.

Daniel

00:31:49 – 00:31:50

Is it fixed?

Caleb

00:31:50 – 00:31:57

Something happened. I'm making money on this thing. You didn't even know it. Okay.

Aaron

00:31:57 – 00:31:58

Look at this.

Caleb

00:31:58 – 00:32:04

I'm getting a screenshot in our mostly NPM, NPTM thing, and you can explain it to the users.

Aaron

00:32:05 – 00:32:07

Okay. What happened here?

Caleb

00:32:07 – 00:32:08

Dude, I

Daniel

00:32:08 – 00:32:08

gotta look at

Aaron

00:32:08 – 00:32:11

this thing. Is this real? See if this is just Josh.

Caleb

00:32:11 – 00:32:16

He I gave him an affiliate code, so I think I could actually see how many people you Dude,

Aaron

00:32:16 – 00:32:16

you told

Caleb

00:32:16 – 00:32:16

me that.

Aaron

00:32:16 – 00:32:16

But okay.

Caleb

00:32:16 – 00:32:18

Folks for looking. Guys.

Aaron

00:32:18 – 00:32:20

Dude, this is that's

Daniel

00:32:21 – 00:32:22

When did you get everyone

Aaron

00:32:22 – 00:32:23

in the affiliate code?

Caleb

00:32:24 – 00:32:30

That the date was the fateful day of Tuesday, July 2nd.

Daniel

00:32:30 – 00:32:32

Alright. Look at your messages, Josh.

Aaron

00:32:32 – 00:32:33

Yeah. What was I doing on July 2nd?

Caleb

00:32:33 – 00:32:41

Dude, I bet it's Josh Siri. I bet he's just Flash. And then the date so July 3rd was $444 that day.

Aaron

00:32:42 – 00:32:45

Yeah. Number number go up here. This is crazy. Like, you

Caleb

00:32:45 – 00:32:52

so you could see this graph, folks, that's literally just, like, bottom bottom bottom bottom. Fruitful, full,

Aaron

00:32:52 – 00:32:54

fat, little, like Sustained.

Caleb

00:32:54 – 00:32:56

Yeah. Sustained. Revenue that is

Daniel

00:32:57 – 00:32:58

That's crazy.

Aaron

00:32:58 – 00:33:09

Wow. Dude, well Alright. So scope this down scope this down to just July, and then give us the number because all I see is a graph. So what did you what did you make in July off of this course?

Caleb

00:33:09 – 00:33:16

Okay. Just July. So July, was $45100. Wow.

Daniel

00:33:16 – 00:33:18

You're gonna eke out $60 on this course.

Aaron

00:33:18 – 00:33:20

You're gonna eke it out, man.

Caleb

00:33:20 – 00:33:27

Okay. So I've always felt like this has not I niched it down to keep it niched, because of the reasons to keep it niched.

Aaron

00:33:27 – 00:33:32

Self fulfilling prophecy. You had sit down to keep it niched. To keep

Caleb

00:33:32 – 00:33:41

it niched. Mhmm. And and I think that was the right move. Mhmm. But it has, I've always been, like, man, like, this could conquer, like, the Internet.

Caleb

00:33:41 – 00:33:54

It's Versus Code. It's, like, the widest thing, and there's, like, there are some courses, some good courses, but they're very just, like, you know, if somebody was, like, alright. I'm gonna make the Versus Code course. I'm gonna hire a marketer. I'm gonna research it.

Caleb

00:33:54 – 00:33:58

I'm gonna have everything you would need where this is just opinions and, like, zest. You know?

Aaron

00:33:58 – 00:34:00

I'm gonna start a I'm gonna start a

Daniel

00:34:00 – 00:34:17

business that's like a bundle, a course bundle business where I bundle up courses like screencasting and Versus Code and other things that are, like, sort of general wider programming audience approved, and I'll just keep 50%. You guys interested? Just, do it anyway. Screencasting course is a video code course.

Aaron

00:34:17 – 00:34:19

Sounds like a rapper to me, so fill this out.

Daniel

00:34:19 – 00:34:20

Well, no. It'll have

Aaron

00:34:20 – 00:34:21

it'll be a rename also.

Caleb

00:34:22 – 00:34:31

Wow. Loophole. I have decided just real quick based on our last con one of our conversations, Aaron. Mhmm. If I got money, it's okay.

Caleb

00:34:31 – 00:34:40

I know you were, like, well, what if you get money? Is it fine? If I get money, it's not as good, but, like, you can wrap me if your success pays

Aaron

00:34:41 – 00:34:42

me. Yeah. Great.

Caleb

00:34:42 – 00:34:46

I'm good. Love that. Philosophically, dear. Go for it. Just kick it back.

Caleb

00:34:46 – 00:34:51

You know? Kick kick it up. So okay. So make this code awesome, I thought was dead. It is not dead, in fact.

Caleb

00:34:51 – 00:35:01

Dead. Oh, I was supposed to get I partnered with somebody for 10% on it. Yeah. So every year, I cut this guy a check for, like, $2. Not anymore.

Caleb

00:35:01 – 00:35:04

Wanna stop because I do all the support. He does nothing. I wanna buy him out.

Aaron

00:35:04 – 00:35:05

It's not

Daniel

00:35:05 – 00:35:07

how that oh, you could buy him out. Yeah. I should have bought him out

Caleb

00:35:07 – 00:35:07

last year.

Daniel

00:35:07 – 00:35:08

3 months ago

Aaron

00:35:08 – 00:35:09

now. True. Mhmm.

Caleb

00:35:09 – 00:35:12

Now I can't in good conscience buy him out for $5 or something.

Aaron

00:35:12 – 00:35:15

Just buy him out based on our rolling 12 month average right now.

Daniel

00:35:16 – 00:35:16

True.

Caleb

00:35:16 – 00:35:18

But Problem is he's my brother-in-law.

Aaron

00:35:20 – 00:35:22

Oh. In law, though. In law.

Caleb

00:35:22 – 00:35:23

In law.

Aaron

00:35:23 – 00:35:24

Yeah. Yes. Maybe talk

Daniel

00:35:24 – 00:35:27

to your, maybe talk to your relative. See if you can get

Aaron

00:35:27 – 00:35:30

a divorce going or something. Oh. Oh, yeah.

Caleb

00:35:30 – 00:35:34

Just for the paperwork. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you should talk

Aaron

00:35:34 – 00:35:40

to your relative, but not probably not for divorce, but, hey, Versus code still cooking.

Caleb

00:35:41 – 00:35:53

Versus code still cooking. And to answer your question, yeah, I mean, I love it, so I want it to exist, but we could probably do something more with it especially now. I don't know. Gotta do something. Gotta do something.

Caleb

00:35:53 – 00:35:56

I should figure out where the traffic is coming from. Is it from the job?

Aaron

00:35:56 – 00:35:57

Step 1.

Caleb

00:35:57 – 00:35:59

Did somebody else you know, like,

Daniel

00:36:00 – 00:36:02

you should give Olivia a referral code.

Caleb

00:36:02 – 00:36:10

Okay. Referrer. Make Versus Code awesome has all yeah. Alright. We'll look at the affiliates.

Caleb

00:36:10 – 00:36:18

You you guys could talk about something else while I look. This is this is officially no plans to merge where, like, somebody somebody just goes off and looks something up

Daniel

00:36:18 – 00:36:20

while the other research while

Aaron

00:36:20 – 00:36:21

the other person feels. Us,

Caleb

00:36:21 – 00:36:22

or Yeah.

Daniel

00:36:22 – 00:36:23

Vampamp. Perfect.

Aaron

00:36:25 – 00:36:29

This is this is way outside of the very strict topical format of mostly technical.

Caleb

00:36:30 – 00:36:32

We're gonna get to your topics, Aaron. Aaron, I

Daniel

00:36:32 – 00:36:38

canceled most of my client work for the week. I am gonna have a good week.

Aaron

00:36:38 – 00:36:39

That's great.

Daniel

00:36:39 – 00:36:40

Leading up to Laracon, I

Aaron

00:36:41 – 00:36:43

so last week was a was a hell week.

Daniel

00:36:43 – 00:36:44

I did all of

Aaron

00:36:44 – 00:36:46

the work plus all of the work plus all of the work.

Daniel

00:36:46 – 00:36:47

You hate it when that happens.

Aaron

00:36:47 – 00:36:51

On 3, like sort of in 3 different arenas. I did all of the work.

Daniel

00:36:53 – 00:36:55

And then coming into this week I was like, oh, but I still have

Aaron

00:36:55 – 00:36:57

to do all of the work in one of those arenas.

Daniel

00:36:57 – 00:36:59

And I don't know if there's enough me to go around.

Aaron

00:36:59 – 00:37:05

And so I just I talked to talk to a client. I said, can I do nothing this week and next week and just talk to you

Daniel

00:37:05 – 00:37:09

in 2 weeks instead of just doing nothing? I said, no problem.

Aaron

00:37:10 – 00:37:14

For all this talk about being in the arena, it sure is nice to get out of the arena, isn't it?

Caleb

00:37:14 – 00:37:15

Dude,

Aaron

00:37:15 – 00:37:25

you would nothing like showing up to a Monday where you were supposed to be on 6 hours of pairing calls before Laracon and just be like, you know what I gotta do today? Record podcast. No. Work on my slides.

Caleb

00:37:26 – 00:37:28

That real ticket.

Aaron

00:37:28 – 00:37:37

Man, I love canceled plans. Best kind of plans. Canceled plans. The best canceled plans of my son. Somebody's like, oh, I'm so sorry.

Aaron

00:37:37 – 00:37:42

We can't do this. I'm like, oh, darn. That's, that's too bad. Because, 1,

Caleb

00:37:42 – 00:37:43

you get the you get the

Aaron

00:37:43 – 00:37:46

credit for not being canceled, guy, but, 2, you get to stay home.

Caleb

00:37:47 – 00:37:58

True. It's the best. I wonder if this is a trait. This I don't think this is shared by everybody. But, like, even if it's a good thing, a 100% of the time, I will be elated that something is canceled.

Aaron

00:37:58 – 00:38:02

Yes. Even if it's a good thing. I am Even if it's a good thing. Grilled to death to stay home.

Daniel

00:38:02 – 00:38:05

There's a guy who, a friend of mine just Not

Caleb

00:38:05 – 00:38:06

everyone's like that. A friend

Daniel

00:38:06 – 00:38:11

of mine just started detailing cars, and, he asked if he could detail my car, and

Aaron

00:38:11 – 00:38:12

I was like, sure. Yeah.

Daniel

00:38:13 – 00:38:25

So I'm like paying this guy less than his normal rate to detail my car, and he's canceled it like 3 times. I'm like, I don't don't care. But I keep getting apologetic text messages. It's like, look. I was I'm sitting in my house now.

Daniel

00:38:25 – 00:38:28

I was gonna be sitting in my house then. Nothing has changed.

Aaron

00:38:28 – 00:38:30

I don't really need my car details. Like, I

Caleb

00:38:30 – 00:38:31

don't care. This is for you, dude.

Aaron

00:38:32 – 00:38:34

Alright. Did you find the numbers, Caleb? What do you got?

Caleb

00:38:34 – 00:38:37

I don't know how to use gumroad. I swear I sent

Aaron

00:38:37 – 00:38:40

Josh. I think for so long, and you came up with nothing.

Caleb

00:38:40 – 00:39:02

Nothing. Well, I I I realized I had to just cut bait, but I I feel like I am 73% sure that Josh was tweeting about make Versus Code awesome and said something about I should get an affiliate link or something, and I was, like, you made one, sent it to him. But maybe I didn't. So bummer for Josh.

Aaron

00:39:02 – 00:39:04

That sucks for Josh. He's really driving traffic.

Caleb

00:39:04 – 00:39:10

Josh is in a weird spot because everybody's, like, oogling over his stuff and is, like, how do you do that? And he's, like,

Aaron

00:39:10 – 00:39:14

oh, content creation. Like, I should be telling everybody, but, like, I got it

Caleb

00:39:14 – 00:39:20

all from this course. Mhmm. So it's this weird thing, but I'd say he's he's towed the line, like, really well. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:39:20 – 00:39:21

Where he,

Caleb

00:39:21 – 00:39:25

like, gives some tips and stuff, but then says, like, I got it all from this course. Go buy the course. You know?

Daniel

00:39:25 – 00:39:26

Yeah. It is a

Aaron

00:39:27 – 00:39:28

it's a delicate balancing act to be

Daniel

00:39:28 – 00:39:44

respectful on the Internet. You know, we, credit where it's due to Matt Stauffer. I feel like that was something that we talked about a lot at Titan was like, give credit words do. That was actually a 5 minute geek show episode. Give credit where it's due.

Daniel

00:39:44 – 00:39:45

And it was like 5 minute.

Aaron

00:39:45 – 00:39:50

Forgot about those words. Yeah. Yeah. Is a throwback. It was, but it was like,

Daniel

00:39:51 – 00:40:02

it was like a perennial topic in the Titan slack of just, like, how and when is it appropriate to give credit? Right? And it was like, it was almost like a science at Titan of, like

Caleb

00:40:02 – 00:40:02

Yeah.

Daniel

00:40:03 – 00:40:04

Managing credit, you know?

Caleb

00:40:04 – 00:40:09

And I was just, like, tearing around like a Tasmanian devil, and he's just constantly, like,

Aaron

00:40:10 – 00:40:14

you just knocked over the face. You just, you know Yeah. And I'm like, ideas, ideas.

Daniel

00:40:15 – 00:40:16

But I I kinda get it

Aaron

00:40:16 – 00:40:18

now where it's like like it because, yeah, we were both sort

Daniel

00:40:18 – 00:40:34

of just like running wild. We were young and trying to do a thing, you know? But, like, I can imagine now if, like, if people who work for me were out there just like, I don't know, like, repurposing Aaron Francis content or something. Yeah.

Caleb

00:40:34 – 00:40:34

Oh, yeah.

Aaron

00:40:34 – 00:40:36

I'd be like, yo, you have to stop.

Caleb

00:40:36 – 00:40:36

Like, you would have to

Aaron

00:40:36 – 00:40:37

do this. You can't

Daniel

00:40:37 – 00:40:37

just do this.

Caleb

00:40:37 – 00:40:41

First to do that. Yeah. Very different. Please don't do that. Yeah.

Daniel

00:40:41 – 00:40:46

Different people. Jacob, please, draw some concentric circles and write a blog post.

Caleb

00:40:47 – 00:40:49

Right. I mean,

Aaron

00:40:49 – 00:40:51

all you got out of the post was the circles are good.

Caleb

00:40:51 – 00:40:52

Well, they change

Daniel

00:40:52 – 00:40:54

the size too. Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb

00:40:54 – 00:41:00

I mean, for real, I'm like, this is the the circles made I mean, the content's good, but the

Aaron

00:41:00 – 00:41:02

circles. The the circles really made it.

Caleb

00:41:02 – 00:41:03

How did you make

Daniel

00:41:03 – 00:41:04

the circles?

Aaron

00:41:04 – 00:41:08

This is like the thing with What did you use? Excalidraw.

Caleb

00:41:09 – 00:41:11

Is that right? Okay. It's like the income

Daniel

00:41:11 – 00:41:13

and expenses thing too. Right?

Caleb

00:41:13 – 00:41:13

Yeah.

Daniel

00:41:13 – 00:41:24

It's like the same problem. Exactly. It's like you can decrease your expenses or you can increase your income or ideally do both. Right? It's like, oh, you can decrease your inputs or increase your outputs.

Daniel

00:41:25 – 00:41:26

Ideally both. Ideally do both.

Caleb

00:41:26 – 00:41:28

Yes. Correct. And there's

Aaron

00:41:28 – 00:41:28

I mean, so

Caleb

00:41:28 – 00:41:53

is it like, my my big fascination with the expenses income thing is that there's a hidden asymmetry where if you, like yeah. You could make more. But if you spend less, you actually decrease your need for your life, so you need less to retire. Like, so it actually is a double win at least. Is there something with being online, or, like, I guess, things outside of your control?

Caleb

00:41:53 – 00:41:58

There's, like, an asymmetry, you know, if we're mapping it onto income and expenses.

Aaron

00:42:01 – 00:42:07

I don't know, because I don't know if I fully follow the first example about expenses being a double win.

Caleb

00:42:08 – 00:42:22

Yeah. I mean, I don't know I don't know if you care for me to ex you know, like, if you if you wanna make 10 more $1,000, you can get a $10,000 raise, and now you have $10,000 more dollars. Or you can spend $10,000 less k. On, like, groceries or something. Right?

Caleb

00:42:22 – 00:42:24

And then you get $10,000.

Aaron

00:42:24 – 00:42:24

Correct.

Caleb

00:42:24 – 00:42:43

But when you've done the less, you now need $10,000 less in perpetuity for your life. Oh, I see. Yes. So it actually, like, pays you in a compounding way when you when you increase your the money you have by spending less.

Daniel

00:42:44 – 00:42:55

I think it's a little, little fakey because you're assuming that, by needing $10,000 less right now, I'm gonna continue not needing that $10,000.

Aaron

00:42:55 – 00:42:56

But you're not giving me

Caleb

00:42:56 – 00:42:57

That's a given. Yeah.

Daniel

00:42:57 – 00:43:04

But you're not giving me the same thing, which is, like, if I get an extra $10,000, I continue to keep having that $10,000 every year forever.

Caleb

00:43:04 – 00:43:07

Right. And but for most people, if you're just working, like, a job

Aaron

00:43:07 – 00:43:08

and you're not, like,

Caleb

00:43:08 – 00:43:14

entrepreneurially expanding in life, like Mhmm. It's generally, like, that $10,000 raise isn't mapped to, like,

Daniel

00:43:14 – 00:43:17

you're gonna take it back next year.

Caleb

00:43:18 – 00:43:29

Right. But what I'm saying is but okay. You get the $10,000 raise. In perpetuity, you have, like, an extra $10,000, but you didn't change how much you spend. Uh-huh.

Caleb

00:43:29 – 00:43:34

Mhmm. Yeah. I'd have to figure out if the math works. You might be right, Daniel. We will see.

Daniel

00:43:34 – 00:43:41

I mean, it got you where you are now. Got me where I am. So maybe it's a useful fiction. Yeah.

Aaron

00:43:41 – 00:43:42

We do love a useful fiction.

Caleb

00:43:43 – 00:43:46

Uh-huh. Those can be extremely helpful. Yeah.

Aaron

00:43:46 – 00:43:49

A polite a polite fiction goes a long way.

Caleb

00:43:49 – 00:43:54

Spend more. Similarly, expose yourself to more things that are outside your control.

Daniel

00:43:55 – 00:43:55

Yeah.

Aaron

00:43:56 – 00:43:59

No. Yep. No. That doesn't map. I don't like that.

Caleb

00:43:59 – 00:44:05

That is it. Yeah. How are you feeling about that post Eren, like, philosophically in your life?

Aaron

00:44:05 – 00:44:08

Great. Feel great about it. Feel like it was one of my best.

Caleb

00:44:10 – 00:44:13

And where did it come from? Where did it come from?

Aaron

00:44:14 – 00:44:16

Excalidraw. I did. I did,

Caleb

00:44:16 – 00:44:17

get down.

Aaron

00:44:17 – 00:44:21

If you actually if you go to the site and you toggle dark and light mode, I did every drawing twice

Caleb

00:44:21 – 00:44:21

or I

Daniel

00:44:21 – 00:44:21

No way.

Aaron

00:44:22 – 00:44:24

Every drawing twice. That's very hard for you.

Caleb

00:44:24 – 00:44:25

There's a dark

Aaron

00:44:25 – 00:44:25

and light version. Yeah.

Daniel

00:44:25 – 00:44:27

It's kind of a running bit.

Aaron

00:44:27 – 00:44:33

See, it is a real bit. This is like if you would just spend less like now. Now you're doing dark

Daniel

00:44:33 – 00:44:37

and light mode in perpetuity. Oh, yeah. You just got the first time.

Aaron

00:44:37 – 00:44:37

Now you

Daniel

00:44:37 – 00:44:38

wouldn't have to do it every time.

Aaron

00:44:38 – 00:44:42

Steve and I actually talked about, are we doing dark and light mode for every course from now on? I'm like,

Caleb

00:44:42 – 00:44:43

I guess we are.

Daniel

00:44:43 – 00:44:45

Yeah. You're hoes.

Aaron

00:44:45 – 00:44:51

Yeah. Too bad. That is wild. Comes from personal feelings. Like, I feel that in my own life.

Aaron

00:44:52 – 00:45:24

Like, the more that I pay attention to, the less that I feel good about what I'm doing or what I can do. And also seeing a lot of people on the Internet be mad about stuff that they don't ever do anything about. And I'm like, this is just a waste of energy, and it's a waste of, like, you you could be changing things within your control, but instead you're worried about stuff that is way outside of your control, and you're using up your finite limited resources of caring, you

Caleb

00:45:24 – 00:45:26

know? Yep. Ismaila.

Daniel

00:45:27 – 00:45:42

Aaron, one thing that I think this show needs is for you to have a little bit of a poker arc. Because I think Poker arc. You need to have a poker arc because Landsman has so much to give you there. Yeah. And I think you did it.

Daniel

00:45:42 – 00:46:00

But there's this thing in poker that's, you know, like poker is all about just like doing things that have a slight edge many, many times. Yeah. Right? So it's like you you take a situation where it's like, yeah, I have like a 2% edge in this situation. If I do it a 100 times then I should win 2% on my money, you know?

Aaron

00:46:00 – 00:46:00

Right.

Caleb

00:46:00 – 00:46:01

Yeah.

Aaron

00:46:01 – 00:46:02

And

Daniel

00:46:04 – 00:46:16

there's like this human frailty, which is that when something like doesn't go according to plan, you tend to think that you may or when something doesn't pay off, even though you only have a 2% edge, you tend to think that you failed.

Caleb

00:46:16 – 00:46:17

Right? Correct.

Daniel

00:46:17 – 00:46:18

And so it's like

Aaron

00:46:18 – 00:46:20

like this results oriented thinking of like even if you put

Daniel

00:46:20 – 00:46:29

in the right work and did took the correct actions that more often than not will result in the good thing. It feels like you're doing bad because

Caleb

00:46:29 – 00:46:29

Mhmm.

Daniel

00:46:29 – 00:46:31

I didn't win this time.

Aaron

00:46:31 – 00:46:31

Mhmm. You

Daniel

00:46:31 – 00:46:37

know? And I think, like, that concept of, like, like, I'm not

Aaron

00:46:37 – 00:46:40

in the results business, and just, like, I'm in the action business. I'm in

Daniel

00:46:40 – 00:46:59

the job of, like, take the small actions that I can be responsible for. And, you know, these actions are designed to influence the results as much as possible in the ways that I want, and all of the other ingredients in the soup of results are not mine. I just stick my rock in the soup and see what I get, you

Aaron

00:46:59 – 00:47:01

know. That, like, that little bit

Daniel

00:47:01 – 00:47:20

of philosophy from poker, I think has, like, done me so well in the past, like, year or 2 of just like, yeah, just you just do what you can do. You do the thing that is yours to do. And sometimes you get aces versus kings, and that's just fine. You know?

Aaron

00:47:20 – 00:47:34

I like that, Daniel. This is a philosophy I could get behind. I may have to get into poker just for the content because that I I I fully agree with that. Yeah. Your your job is to put it out there, and if it goes terribly, well, that's too bad.

Aaron

00:47:34 – 00:47:35

If it goes right, I'll that's great.

Daniel

00:47:35 – 00:47:40

To continue with the poker metaphor like then to make it up in volume. Right?

Aaron

00:47:40 – 00:47:41

Yeah. Right. It's like

Caleb

00:47:41 – 00:47:42

you just some signal

Daniel

00:47:42 – 00:47:43

as long as you have an edge.

Aaron

00:47:43 – 00:47:47

You just have to repeat as often as possible. You have to play as many hands as

Daniel

00:47:47 – 00:47:54

you can play. If you're confident you have an edge in this game, like, the more hands you can play, the more you can earn. Right?

Aaron

00:47:54 – 00:47:55

That's interesting.

Caleb

00:47:56 – 00:47:57

Yeah. Do you think

Aaron

00:47:57 – 00:47:58

I have an edge in this game?

Caleb

00:47:58 – 00:48:17

Yes. Well, the the dark mode screencast is, like, a good example of of, like, something like that. It's probably hard to measure, so maybe it's not. But it feels to me, like, not having lenses in your glasses that you used to not have, like, the little touches Mhmm. Are those sort of those are, like, undeniably edges because people talk about them.

Caleb

00:48:17 – 00:48:26

They reference them. Like, it it signals that you care about stuff and quality and blah blah blah. Just doing many of those things, to me, that's the, like, the little poker edge is that.

Aaron

00:48:26 – 00:48:49

You know what's interesting about both of those examples? The the dark mode and the lensless glasses? Well, the lensless glasses was born out of practicality because my old setup, it was just just so many reflections. Now it's not as bad, so I don't use them. But both of those things are somewhat useful, but somewhat also just sticks for people

Caleb

00:48:49 – 00:48:51

to talk about. And it works. You you

Daniel

00:48:51 – 00:48:52

we go.

Caleb

00:48:53 – 00:48:54

Are you self aware?

Aaron

00:48:54 – 00:48:57

Great. I I have become self aware.

Caleb

00:48:57 – 00:49:22

You're self aware. I mean, this is the that is all I mean, that's part of the Aaron strategy. The, remember when you the this was a somebody replied, Mark, Mark whoever replied to you about memes and was like, I I don't think whatever. We don't have to say whether or not he's right or not, but the point being that, like Also Yeah. Like, saying, you know, I mean, even today with, like, the rug pulling is,

Aaron

00:49:22 – 00:49:25

like, Aaron, Mark Jaquith or something. Yeah.

Caleb

00:49:25 – 00:49:34

Mark Jaquith. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's all of those basically just naming a theme in, like, a catchy, succinct way and saying

Aaron

00:49:34 – 00:49:34

it a

Caleb

00:49:34 – 00:49:42

lot is, like Mhmm. Now you have this this IP, basically, of it's IP, basically. It's valuable IP.

Daniel

00:49:42 – 00:49:44

Yeah. Now you're now you're Beetlejuice.

Caleb

00:49:44 – 00:49:57

Yeah. And they're, like, common enough things that's, like, you know, you can just do things. I did oh, somebody reached out to me for early access to Flux. Early access to Flux just, like I was just, like, hey, let's just throw out a flyer, whatever. And they were just, like, can I get access?

Caleb

00:49:57 – 00:49:59

Some some random person.

Aaron

00:49:59 – 00:49:59

Mhmm.

Caleb

00:49:59 – 00:50:07

And I was, like, you know what? Hell, yeah. And then See? They they this was the reply I got. It was, like, Aaron is right.

Caleb

00:50:07 – 00:50:11

You can literally just do things. Yeah. And I'm, like, exact yeah. So now

Aaron

00:50:11 – 00:50:14

Aaron has branded asking for things.

Caleb

00:50:14 – 00:50:19

Aaron is branded asking for things. He's branded do it, you know, like, you know, but

Daniel

00:50:19 – 00:50:22

It's like you say try 3 times and Aaron appears.

Caleb

00:50:23 – 00:50:28

Yeah. Right. Literally, if I if we're, like, trying hard at something, that's Aaron's IP.

Aaron

00:50:28 – 00:50:33

Oh, yeah. Oh, here I am working at 10 o'clock. I better tell everyone. Work hard

Daniel

00:50:33 – 00:50:34

Yeah.

Caleb

00:50:34 – 00:50:35

Without it being Eren's IP.

Daniel

00:50:35 – 00:50:38

Yeah. Exactly. What the hell, man? Oh, man.

Caleb

00:50:38 – 00:50:39

That is

Aaron

00:50:39 – 00:50:53

the perks of giving everything a name and also having just a few bits that you just Well, like, I I, like an idiot, like, Beetlejuiced myself on event sourcing. Like, the most complicated, hard to wrap your

Caleb

00:50:53 – 00:50:54

head around. Mistake, literally.

Aaron

00:50:54 – 00:50:58

I should have done, like, trying hard or giving a shit or something. You know?

Caleb

00:50:58 – 00:51:00

Right. Like, being good.

Aaron

00:51:00 – 00:51:05

Yeah. You know? Event sourcing, that's a tough road to go. Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna alright.

Aaron

00:51:05 – 00:51:14

Watch this space. In the next I'm gonna do this on stage at Laracon. This is my only opportunity. Okay. On stage at Laracon, I'm gonna brand just some really normal life thing.

Aaron

00:51:15 – 00:51:15

Right.

Caleb

00:51:15 – 00:51:16

Daniel

00:51:16 – 00:51:18

that I could get tweets. What is it gonna be?

Caleb

00:51:18 – 00:51:19

That's like for

Aaron

00:51:19 – 00:51:27

for a okay. Branding basic hygiene. I'll tell you what it is. Right? And then when I come off stage, you need to repeat that life thing.

Aaron

00:51:27 – 00:51:33

Like, that's wow. What a really great concept. Yeah. What how about give it up for the basic hygiene guy?

Daniel

00:51:33 – 00:51:33

Basic.

Aaron

00:51:34 – 00:51:35

Like, you got a cloth.

Caleb

00:51:35 – 00:51:38

Like us. Yeah. Right. Basic

Aaron

00:51:38 – 00:51:41

hygiene. Showering every day. Come on. Let's throw up. Let's give it up for him.

Caleb

00:51:41 – 00:51:52

It could be your shtick. It you know, it's just, like, went through poll request today, like, basic hygiene. It's, like, now everybody and I've and then I'm sitting there wash like, cleaning the dishes, and it's, like, oh, this is basic hygiene. Yeah.

Daniel

00:51:52 – 00:51:54

Everything you do is basic hygiene.

Aaron

00:51:54 – 00:51:56

Everything you do is basic hygiene.

Daniel

00:51:57 – 00:51:58

And that's my IP.

Aaron

00:51:58 – 00:51:58

And you owe me a tweet.

Caleb

00:51:58 – 00:52:00

That is That's your thing. Yeah.

Daniel

00:52:01 – 00:52:03

Oh, did you wake up in the morning? Oh, me a tweet.

Caleb

00:52:04 – 00:52:24

Sweet. Basic hygiene. To be extremely clear, Aaron, in case you're offended by any of this, you are, you've earned you can just do things like, Segway. You went to Boise and got interviewed by Nathan Barry on the $1,000,000,000 creator, and I'm like, he did it again.

Aaron

00:52:24 – 00:52:24

He did it again?

Caleb

00:52:24 – 00:52:25

Freaking just

Daniel

00:52:25 – 00:52:26

I was surprised.

Caleb

00:52:26 – 00:52:29

Things or ask stuff or whatever the brand is.

Aaron

00:52:29 – 00:52:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb

00:52:30 – 00:52:30

But it's,

Aaron

00:52:30 – 00:52:31

like tighten up the brand because you

Caleb

00:52:31 – 00:52:39

still remember it, but yeah. Leveling it up and showing everybody that you can just do things. Everybody's going, like, damn. Like, you can just do things. So You

Aaron

00:52:39 – 00:52:41

can just do things. How did that come about,

Caleb

00:52:41 – 00:52:43

and did you just do things?

Aaron

00:52:43 – 00:52:57

Good segue. I just did a thing. And, actually, on on the plane ride there, I did another thing that's that's lower stakes, but still fun. So I, yeah, I just DM ed Nathan on Twitter. Just said, hey, man.

Aaron

00:52:57 – 00:53:08

I'll probably be the smallest creator that you have on, but here are the numbers. I would love to fly up to Boise and and talk. And he said, sure. Sounds good. That was it.

Aaron

00:53:08 – 00:53:09

That was it. That

Daniel

00:53:09 – 00:53:10

was all I had. Yeah.

Caleb

00:53:11 – 00:53:14

It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

Aaron

00:53:14 – 00:53:18

Saying I'd love to fly to Boise. That's a that's big. Right? That's the move.

Daniel

00:53:19 – 00:53:19

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

00:53:19 – 00:53:24

Just saying, like, yeah. I know that you've only recorded in person now. I'm willing to fly up there. Oh, right. Yeah.

Aaron

00:53:24 – 00:53:32

Kill 3 days and come be on your show. Yep. And it worked. And we got 2 episodes out of it, actually. So there's gonna be forthcoming.

Aaron

00:53:32 – 00:53:38

There's going to be an interview episode and then, like, a coaching and it went it went great. It was awesome. Smart. Ugh. Because not only were you,

Caleb

00:53:38 – 00:53:40

you know, on that pod and all that stuff, but you basically,

Aaron

00:53:40 – 00:53:41

for the cost of

Caleb

00:53:41 – 00:54:04

a flight and some steak dinners, got the best business consulting you could basically Correct. Ever pay anybody to get, and he's not even available for consulting. Correct. You bagged that as well, and it's, like Yep. Dude, this is some freaking this is next level strategy.

Caleb

00:54:04 – 00:54:07

Mhmm. So hats off to you, Aaron Francis.

Aaron

00:54:07 – 00:54:14

So yeah. So I get the I get the the consulting. Yep. I get the content around going. Right?

Aaron

00:54:14 – 00:54:18

So we get this bump of, like, hey. It's here's a picture of me and Nathan. And then

Caleb

00:54:18 – 00:54:22

Signaling. Just associating. It's just like we're friends. This is

Aaron

00:54:22 – 00:54:23

You know? I was here.

Caleb

00:54:23 – 00:54:25

Massive cache.

Aaron

00:54:25 – 00:54:35

And then Yeah. And then the podcasts are gonna come out, and it's all gonna happen it's all gonna happen all over again. And I'm gonna get exposed to his audience, which is slightly different than my own, which is gonna be good.

Daniel

00:54:35 – 00:54:45

You gotta make, like, a a place, like, a selfie section on your website. Kinda like, kinda like like the picture of, like, Drew Barrymore in your sub shop or whatever.

Aaron

00:54:45 – 00:54:49

Yeah. Right. Like, you need, like, you need, like, a That's great.

Daniel

00:54:49 – 00:54:53

Here's here's the people I've taken selfies with section of your website.

Caleb

00:54:53 – 00:54:53

It's a good idea.

Daniel

00:54:53 – 00:54:56

Because otherwise, you're not even cashing on that cloud.

Aaron

00:54:56 – 00:55:04

My most I got a picture once with Marcus Lemonis, who is the prophet on CNBC's show, the prophet. Sick. I love the Yeah.

Daniel

00:55:04 – 00:55:05

Dust prophet.

Aaron

00:55:05 – 00:55:13

Yes. Yeah. And then one time, I got a picture with George W Bush, who used to be, the president of the United States. George w Bush? George w Bush.

Aaron

00:55:13 – 00:55:14

I thought he said Jeb

Daniel

00:55:14 – 00:55:15

Bush. Or no?

Aaron

00:55:15 – 00:55:16

No. Jeb. No. Not him.

Caleb

00:55:16 – 00:55:17

Not low energy Jeb.

Aaron

00:55:17 – 00:55:21

No. Not low energy Jeb. No. The sun, George Dub.

Daniel

00:55:21 – 00:55:24

George Dub. You know, I made a web pretty cool Jeb.

Aaron

00:55:25 – 00:55:26

Jab exclamation?

Daniel

00:55:26 – 00:55:27

Jeb exclamation.

Aaron

00:55:27 – 00:55:28

No way.

Daniel

00:55:28 – 00:55:30

Yeah. I don't think I made

Aaron

00:55:30 – 00:55:35

the website. I made a website. I never spoke to him. More of a fan thing. It was not a

Caleb

00:55:35 – 00:55:35

fan thing.

Aaron

00:55:35 – 00:55:37

It was a

Daniel

00:55:37 – 00:55:40

I worked at a conservative nonprofit agency.

Caleb

00:55:40 – 00:55:43

Oh, Daniels has a fan club. Oh, yeah.

Aaron

00:55:43 – 00:55:45

I mean, I make the website for Jet. Well

Caleb

00:55:45 – 00:55:47

Yeah. Oh, man.

Aaron

00:55:47 – 00:55:48

Yeah. Alright. So the other thing is

Daniel

00:55:48 – 00:55:49

that the thing

Aaron

00:55:49 – 00:56:04

that I that I just did on the plane ride there, This is a this is a microcosm of you can just do things, which, by the way, I need to make a list of I need to write an article with some circles so that so that Daniel will read it. But I need to write an article about it.

Caleb

00:56:04 – 00:56:06

Or something. What's your other ongoing list?

Aaron

00:56:06 – 00:56:11

Oh, man. A list of things that work when they're broken? Great list. Great list. Go check that out.

Daniel

00:56:11 – 00:56:12

Yeah. Like like

Aaron

00:56:12 – 00:56:26

the drop down on your website, which works even though it's broken. Okay. Inappropriate. So on the on the flight there, you know, I'm on, it's it's I have an empty seat between me and then this other guy sitting next to the window. I'm on the aisle.

Aaron

00:56:26 – 00:56:30

Yeah. We're not talking. We're just, like, best we're just being best buds, but we're not

Daniel

00:56:30 – 00:56:31

Holding hands.

Aaron

00:56:31 – 00:56:33

Yeah. We're hanging out.

Caleb

00:56:33 – 00:56:34

That's what I'm scratching it over.

Aaron

00:56:34 – 00:56:34

Right in

Caleb

00:56:34 – 00:56:35

the seat.

Aaron

00:56:36 – 00:56:46

So is anybody nobody's sitting here. Do you mind if I move over? Keep butt. So then the drink the drink cart comes along, and I'm like, yeah. I'm gonna get I'm gonna get a drink.

Aaron

00:56:46 – 00:56:56

And so the guy says, you know, what do you want? And I say, what did I order? I think I ordered a gin and tonic, and the guy next to me ordered something like a tequila seltzer or something.

Daniel

00:56:56 – 00:56:57

Yeah. Sunrise.

Aaron

00:56:57 – 00:57:07

And and the guy, the flight attendant said, are y'all together? And I said, no. And then I looked at the guy and said, unless are you paying leaned in. Yeah. Then I kissed him on the cheek.

Aaron

00:57:07 – 00:57:09

No. I looked at him. I said, unless are you paying?

Caleb

00:57:09 – 00:57:10

And he looked at me,

Aaron

00:57:10 – 00:57:13

and he goes, ah, I'll pay for you. And I said, no. No. No. Absolutely not.

Aaron

00:57:13 – 00:57:19

Yeah. Just doing a bit. Looked at the flight attendant, said, I'm paying for myself. He's being very kind. I'm paying for myself.

Aaron

00:57:19 – 00:57:33

The guy flight attendant gets us both of our drinks and then says, well, this guy, John, his name is John. John's in the military, so his is free. And since he's paying for you, yours is free as well. Now that's a move. Very nice.

Aaron

00:57:33 – 00:57:35

That's a move. Right?

Caleb

00:57:35 – 00:57:40

That's a move. This story could have gone in 5 other directions that would have been extremely cringey. It would've

Aaron

00:57:40 – 00:57:41

been, but it but it was great.

Caleb

00:57:41 – 00:57:42

That's a great outcome.

Aaron

00:57:42 – 00:57:48

I got to do a little folksy bit. I got to make friends with the guy next to me, and then I also didn't have to pay for my drink.

Caleb

00:57:48 – 00:57:49

It's a

Aaron

00:57:49 – 00:57:49

win win win.

Daniel

00:57:50 – 00:57:52

Yeah. It's a win. You can just do things while you're on the plane.

Caleb

00:57:52 – 00:57:59

I don't think that fits in that you can just do things. This there's needs to be a new brand for that. You know, it's not a perfect you can just do things.

Aaron

00:57:59 – 00:58:09

Yeah. But it it kinda it kinda is it kinda is. There's a whole there's a whole line of my life where just, like, being folksy pays off. So we gotta think of a Right. That's like a phrase for that.

Aaron

00:58:10 – 00:58:17

Yes. You can awash your way to success. Just awash. It's a little wordy. I know.

Daniel

00:58:17 – 00:58:20

Yeah. It's a mouthful. Yeah. Toothsome.

Caleb

00:58:22 – 00:58:23

We'll figure it out.

Aaron

00:58:23 – 00:58:24

We'll figure it out. Think on it.

Caleb

00:58:24 – 00:58:26

Just get things for free.

Aaron

00:58:26 – 00:58:37

You can. You really, really can. As long as you're folksy, you can kinda get away with a lot of stuff. Or as long as the person you're asking is too polite to say no. Yeah.

Aaron

00:58:37 – 00:58:38

Maybe. True.

Caleb

00:58:38 – 00:58:39

But if your folks need to cross

Aaron

00:58:39 – 00:58:41

your street into giving you things for free by

Caleb

00:58:42 – 00:58:44

You can bully people. That's yeah.

Aaron

00:58:44 – 00:58:45

Especially if that's a sit next to

Daniel

00:58:45 – 00:58:46

you on a new plate

Caleb

00:58:46 – 00:58:52

for a while. If you just became a guy who said, ah, this one's on you. Right? Enough time. Like, just that you just said that all the time.

Caleb

00:58:52 – 00:58:54

Like, you'd you'd make a bunch of money.

Daniel

00:58:54 – 00:58:58

And you restrict people's ability to go to the bathroom. You can get them to buy you a drink for free.

Aaron

00:58:58 – 00:59:02

This one's on you. That's a great, that this one's on you.

Daniel

00:59:02 – 00:59:02

Oh, that is

Caleb

00:59:02 – 00:59:25

just a serious branding. I'm gonna tell a story that I hesitate to tell, but I I wanna know for real because, like, a friend of mine, who's a friend in every other way Mhmm. We were at a beer store thing getting, like, there's a taco truck, we get the tacos. The friend goes, I'm about to, like, walk in. I think I'm about to walk in to get a beer.

Caleb

00:59:25 – 00:59:29

He just came. He's, like, hey. Give me whatever you're having or something like that. Mhmm. You know?

Caleb

00:59:29 – 00:59:30

Or I said, like, what do you want? He's, like, whatever you're having.

Aaron

00:59:30 – 00:59:31

You know? Mhmm.

Caleb

00:59:31 – 00:59:38

But he did prompt for, like, for me to buy him the beer. Right? No problem. He buys happy to buy a beer for a friend. I'm going to get a beer.

Caleb

00:59:38 – 00:59:40

Of course, I'm gonna get 2 beers. It's standard.

Aaron

00:59:40 – 00:59:44

This guy's over 21. Right? He's not running This guy's, like, 55. Okay. Cool.

Aaron

00:59:44 – 00:59:45

Alright. He It's making me

Caleb

00:59:45 – 00:59:53

bring him the beer. We drink our beers. It's happy days. A week or two later, we're at a dip like, a different brewery outside

Aaron

00:59:53 – 00:59:53

with Mhmm.

Caleb

00:59:53 – 01:00:05

Families, our families as well. He's on the other side of the table. Mhmm. And and I'm about to get up, or I wasn't even getting up. I had already gotten a beer, and he goes, like, hey,

Aaron

01:00:05 – 01:00:06

can you get me a beer? You know?

Caleb

01:00:06 – 01:00:13

And I was, like, oh, I'm sorry. He says I'm sorry. Oh, no. This is the worst story ever. Okay.

Caleb

01:00:13 – 01:00:21

This is it. This is really important. You could just Yeah. No. He he says, hey, can you grab me a beer?

Caleb

01:00:21 – 01:00:35

I you know, I'm trapped here in behind the table. So I say, like, yeah. And I figured he's implying that he'll get me a beer as well, because I was going up to get a beer. So he's, like, hey, can you get, you know, I don't know. I thought it I thought I was, like, reading the situation.

Caleb

01:00:35 – 01:00:57

I was like, yeah. And, like, should I get one too? Or I was like an awkward way to ask, and and so he he was like Should I get Yes. But it became, like, really weird to the point where I lit I couldn't tell if he if I was supposed to buy a beer for myself on his tab or not, or if this was supposed to go on my tab. And he literally was like like, if you really want one, that's what he said.

Caleb

01:00:57 – 01:01:10

And I was like, this is so out of character. He's like, if you really want one, and I was like, oh, yeah. I mean, I it was just awkward, and everybody's staring. And then I said, I bought you a beer, like, 2 weeks ago. And he's, like, I know you did.

Caleb

01:01:11 – 01:01:21

And I just got up and, like, bought him the beer. You know? So weird. This is so uncomfortable. That's It was the most uncomfortable thing ever, and now I'm wondering That's incredible.

Caleb

01:01:21 – 01:01:26

This guy is already pretty cheap, but he is, like, half retired and, like, on the 5.

Aaron

01:01:26 – 01:01:27

He's on a fixed income.

Caleb

01:01:28 – 01:01:37

Exactly. And he I think he referenced something like that. And I was like, wait a second. And now I'm like, should I care about this Internet? Is this, like, a a problem?

Caleb

01:01:37 – 01:01:38

Or I don't know.

Aaron

01:01:39 – 01:01:42

It could just be a weird This is but it it was incredibly uncomfortable.

Caleb

01:01:42 – 01:01:51

And now I'm, like, almost he's a guy that, like, we've shared our each other's hearts. Like, I almost wanna be, like, yo, dude, is something going on? Like, like, I don't know. He may

Aaron

01:01:51 – 01:01:52

be in a tough season.

Caleb

01:01:53 – 01:01:53

Yeah. Right.

Daniel

01:01:53 – 01:01:55

He's he's having a he's having a difficult season. Yeah.

Aaron

01:01:55 – 01:01:57

A season. He's going through a season.

Caleb

01:01:57 – 01:01:58

I don't know.

Aaron

01:01:58 – 01:01:59

He's in the desert. Uh-huh.

Caleb

01:01:59 – 01:02:05

So, you know, people might ask you to buy their so I'm the other guy on the plane, Aaron.

Aaron

01:02:05 – 01:02:16

Yeah. This is very uncomfortable for me. The fact well, the I I kinda think the fact that you asked him, should I buy one too on your tab

Daniel

01:02:16 – 01:02:18

That is weird. That's a weird thing to say.

Caleb

01:02:18 – 01:02:33

No. I I know. It's like I can't express to you the exact words where you would be like, okay. That was kinda normal. But it was in such a way what it was was me, like, I'm 90% sure that he'll be, like, weirded out if I don't get myself a beer.

Caleb

01:02:34 – 01:02:35

You know? Yeah.

Aaron

01:02:35 – 01:02:36

Yeah. Fixed income. Yeah.

Caleb

01:02:36 – 01:02:38

Yeah. But, like, you have to make sure.

Daniel

01:02:38 – 01:02:39

But I will I will hand someone

Aaron

01:02:40 – 01:02:41

because, like, it is weird to say,

Daniel

01:02:41 – 01:02:44

like, here's my card. Go get me something and bring it back.

Caleb

01:02:44 – 01:02:48

Yes. And not yourself, 1. It Yeah. And especially given that I

Aaron

01:02:48 – 01:03:02

I don't know. I don't know. He's he's using the trappedness as the reason to only get him a beer. He's saying, I'm not buying this round. I am merely trapped, and so I need you to be my hands and feet.

Aaron

01:03:02 – 01:03:03

It was then that you carried me.

Caleb

01:03:03 – 01:03:17

Uh-huh. And so I get the card, and I but I figured he the only way he told yeah. You guys. The only way he told me that is because, like, if I was in his shoes, I'd be like, oh, I'm kinda trapped. I kinda want a beer.

Caleb

01:03:17 – 01:03:30

I'll go ahead and get me one and get himself one. He just got me a beer. This is like, otherwise, I would feel uncomfortable about asking. I'd be, like, no. If I don't want him to to charge me for a beer, I'm not gonna I'm just gonna wait or something.

Caleb

01:03:30 – 01:03:32

Mhmm. Mhmm. It wasn't even that trapped. I don't know.

Aaron

01:03:32 – 01:03:36

Impossible Impossible to make a ruling. Impossible to

Caleb

01:03:36 – 01:03:37

make a ruling.

Aaron

01:03:37 – 01:03:47

I will say my favorite part of the story is when you said, I can't tell you the exact words, but it came it was really normal. Like, I know that I'm sounding like the bad guy, but it's

Caleb

01:03:47 – 01:03:49

just because I can't remember the right words.

Daniel

01:03:49 – 01:03:50

I said it in a way that was really normal.

Aaron

01:03:50 – 01:03:53

It was really cool and normal. Yeah. That's totally normal.

Caleb

01:03:54 – 01:03:55

Oh. That's how I'm gonna

Aaron

01:03:55 – 01:04:00

tell stories from now on. If I sound like the bad guy, it's just because I can't remember exactly what I said.

Daniel

01:04:00 – 01:04:03

Exactly. Hey, Alex. In such a cool and normal way. Yeah.

Caleb

01:04:06 – 01:04:13

I clocked that as well. Done. For you, like, I have to be like, you you've had enough interactions with me to know I'm not a douchebag. Right? Like, please.

Caleb

01:04:13 – 01:04:14

Can you just give me the benefit of doubt

Aaron

01:04:14 – 01:04:15

on this one? Just kidding. You know?

Daniel

01:04:15 – 01:04:18

Just give me credit for being normal here. Can you just please?

Aaron

01:04:19 – 01:04:22

Did I miss the end? What actually happened? What did you do?

Caleb

01:04:23 – 01:04:26

I bought either a each beer

Aaron

01:04:26 – 01:04:28

separate or we don't he doesn't even remember. No. No. No.

Caleb

01:04:28 – 01:04:29

I bought myself the beer.

Aaron

01:04:30 – 01:04:32

You bought yourself

Caleb

01:04:32 – 01:04:35

I no. I bought the beer on his tab.

Aaron

01:04:35 – 01:04:38

You bought him a beer on his own tab. No. He bought you a beer on

Caleb

01:04:38 – 01:04:38

his own tab.

Daniel

01:04:38 – 01:04:38

He paid

Caleb

01:04:38 – 01:04:39

for my beer too.

Aaron

01:04:40 – 01:04:41

And you bought yourself

Caleb

01:04:41 – 01:04:45

a beer on his tab. It was a confrontation a little bit, but I'm telling

Daniel

01:04:45 – 01:04:47

this guy 6 pack to take home.

Caleb

01:04:48 – 01:04:53

This guy, like, is so close, and I I know. I should have bought a 6 pack take.

Aaron

01:04:53 – 01:04:54

He was so close. Yeah.

Caleb

01:04:54 – 01:04:57

It, I don't know that he was so close, but

Aaron

01:04:57 – 01:04:58

I was,

Caleb

01:04:58 – 01:04:59

like, okay.

Aaron

01:04:59 – 01:05:01

Guess we'll never talk about it. Really want

Caleb

01:05:01 – 01:05:03

a beer, I'm, like, alright. I'll buy myself a beer. Weirdo.

Aaron

01:05:04 – 01:05:09

Anyway This guy's on a fixed income, and you're eking out $60 No. No. With the guy about. So

Caleb

01:05:09 – 01:05:11

You don't have to get into this guy's story. You're not gonna

Aaron

01:05:11 – 01:05:13

take my word for it anyway.

Daniel

01:05:13 – 01:05:15

Yeah. Is this the guy from Panera?

Caleb

01:05:15 – 01:05:18

Didn't I start the story by saying I should not start the story?

Aaron

01:05:18 – 01:05:20

No. You said you're hesitant to tell it.

Daniel

01:05:20 – 01:05:23

Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. No. It's different.

Daniel

01:05:23 – 01:05:23

Yeah.

Caleb

01:05:23 – 01:05:25

No. It's different. I was hesitant. Who is it?

Aaron

01:05:25 – 01:05:26

Expenses at? And in this case,

Daniel

01:05:26 – 01:05:27

it is at yours.

Aaron

01:05:27 – 01:05:31

And, unfortunately, you were hoisted by your own petard on this one.

Caleb

01:05:31 – 01:05:39

I should've just said, hey, can you buy me a beer? Or this one's on him. And then the waitress would've been like, it's on me.

Aaron

01:05:39 – 01:05:48

She would've done the side I verify. She would've looked over at the guy, and the guy would've been like, ah, shucks. And then you would've been you would've been in there. Verify. That's what it's called.

Aaron

01:05:48 – 01:05:50

That's good. Right? The side I verify?

Caleb

01:05:50 – 01:05:51

Side I verify.

Aaron

01:05:52 – 01:05:53

I could do this all day. It's right

Daniel

01:05:53 – 01:05:54

off the top.

Aaron

01:05:55 – 01:06:09

Yeah. You know, 2 other things I just I just asked for. 1, a long time ago, I DM'd West Boss and was like, hey, man. I'll pay you an hour I'll pay you for an hour of your consulting time to look at my videos and tell me what to do better. And he was like, sure.

Aaron

01:06:09 – 01:06:10

Let's do it. Wow. And so

Caleb

01:06:10 – 01:06:11

I did. Got on a

Aaron

01:06:11 – 01:06:21

call with West Boss. It was expensive. I think I paid him, like, $300, but it was totally worth it because we spent an hour on the phone That's me and him penis. Looking at my videos.

Caleb

01:06:21 – 01:06:22

For that kind

Aaron

01:06:22 – 01:06:29

of situation. Consulting? It was great. That's cool. The other time was I asked Caleb for a thing.

Caleb

01:06:29 – 01:06:29

Yeah.

Aaron

01:06:29 – 01:06:36

Back in the day, I said, hey, Caleb. You were on GitHub. Read me the blog. Can you introduce me to the person,

Daniel

01:06:36 – 01:06:37

that you

Aaron

01:06:37 – 01:06:39

talked to? And he did, and that was the beginning.

Caleb

01:06:40 – 01:06:41

That was where it all started.

Daniel

01:06:42 – 01:06:42

Why? You

Aaron

01:06:42 – 01:06:43

can just do things. There

Caleb

01:06:44 – 01:07:05

okay. Let me brand something. Okay. You can just be, like, super cool to random people and never tell anybody, and that's what's up. He was just, like, be do the coolest things for random nobodies and don't signal publicly at all about it, even if it never comes back to you and they randomly get super famous and popular like Aaron Francis.

Caleb

01:07:06 – 01:07:07

Yeah.

Aaron

01:07:07 – 01:07:09

That's great. That's the move.

Daniel

01:07:09 – 01:07:21

I knew a guy who was, I don't know. He was a little no offense Caleb. He was a little he was sort of an Italian. Italian American, and, he told me one

Caleb

01:07:21 – 01:07:22

time, okay,

Daniel

01:07:22 – 01:07:26

as long as you owe me money, I'll never go broke. And that.

Caleb

01:07:26 – 01:07:27

As long

Aaron

01:07:27 – 01:07:28

as you owe me money,

Caleb

01:07:29 – 01:07:30

I'll never go broke.

Daniel

01:07:31 – 01:07:40

It was interesting. It was in it was in the context of like, I owed him I owed him money for a service. Right? Like, he provided a service. And I was like, oh, let me pay you for the, you know.

Daniel

01:07:40 – 01:07:48

And he was like, oh, don't worry about it. As long as you owe me money, I'll never go broke. And it was a very, like, mafia. So energy the way he said

Caleb

01:07:48 – 01:07:48

it. Right. Right.

Daniel

01:07:48 – 01:07:50

Like, I got money on the street.

Aaron

01:07:50 – 01:07:54

I love the accent. I don't know if I fully understand the saying. As long as you owe me money,

Daniel

01:07:54 – 01:07:59

I'll never go around. Have everyone always owing you something.

Aaron

01:07:59 – 01:08:00

That's so awkward. That you walk around just

Daniel

01:08:00 – 01:08:02

kind of, like, passively collecting.

Aaron

01:08:02 – 01:08:03

Right? Which is

Daniel

01:08:03 – 01:08:04

also sort

Caleb

01:08:04 – 01:08:15

of, like, is this mafia? Very good bit, like, if healthily done. Uh-huh. But, like, you guys probably know them too. But as an Italian person, I have plenty of, like, Italians that I could literally name for you.

Caleb

01:08:15 – 01:08:31

Like, there's this one dude, friend of the family, who's the favorite guy. Joey. Yeah. His name's Russ, and he's the favorite guy. It's just, like, he's always he will hook you up so that you're always, like, indebted to him Mhmm.

Caleb

01:08:31 – 01:08:38

And whatever. He's the guy who will ask you for something. When you know him, he will hook and the thing is he forwards it around. He goes, oh, yeah. Yeah.

Caleb

01:08:38 – 01:08:44

I'll hook this guy up with this guy as the favor for this guy. Now this guy owes me.

Aaron

01:08:44 – 01:08:44

Mhmm. You know,

Caleb

01:08:44 – 01:08:51

because this guy owed me, because I did that for him with someone else. And he's passing all these favors around, and it's this tangled web, and it's, like What a

Aaron

01:08:51 – 01:08:52

tangled web we weave. It's

Caleb

01:08:52 – 01:08:58

a tangled web. But, yeah. So it's a good bit, Daniel.

Aaron

01:08:58 – 01:09:00

It's a good bit. As long as you owe

Daniel

01:09:00 – 01:09:01

me money on Never Go Broke.

Aaron

01:09:01 – 01:09:02

As long as you owe

Caleb

01:09:02 – 01:09:03

me money on Never Go Broke.

Aaron

01:09:03 – 01:09:06

And the accent the accent is honestly it's pretty good.

Caleb

01:09:06 – 01:09:07

Anytime I hear Japanese man.

Daniel

01:09:07 – 01:09:14

Anytime I hear someone, like, spout off some sort of like mafioso wisdom like that, I immediately want to say it.

Aaron

01:09:15 – 01:09:23

Yeah. That could that could be your thing. However, in your line of business, if everyone owes you money, you will go broke. That is the problem. Yeah.

Aaron

01:09:23 – 01:09:29

Yeah, that is correct. True. Yeah. You're kind of in the business of getting paid for the services, not having favors. Uh-huh.

Aaron

01:09:29 – 01:09:31

So just something to think about.

Daniel

01:09:31 – 01:09:32

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb

01:09:32 – 01:09:33

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Aaron

01:09:36 – 01:09:38

You believe Do you wanna do another topic?

Daniel

01:09:38 – 01:09:39

1. What you got?

Aaron

01:09:40 – 01:09:45

Alright. Here's what I still got. Arlinda started

Daniel

01:09:45 – 01:09:45

Arlinda.

Aaron

01:09:46 – 01:09:48

Kit Studios. Steve was in

Caleb

01:09:48 – 01:09:48

the hospital.

Aaron

01:09:49 – 01:09:51

We already kinda did Laracon. We're not gonna do Laracon.

Caleb

01:09:51 – 01:09:53

Let's do a little bit of Laracon.

Aaron

01:09:53 – 01:09:56

I think we haven't done all the Laracon. Yeah.

Caleb

01:09:56 – 01:09:57

We Wow. We talked about Laracon.

Aaron

01:09:58 – 01:09:59

That went over well.

Caleb

01:09:59 – 01:10:03

Yeah. I'm sorry. Why. Yeah. They're too Eren focused.

Caleb

01:10:03 – 01:10:05

We have to, you

Daniel

01:10:05 – 01:10:06

know We've solved the thing all the time.

Caleb

01:10:06 – 01:10:07

I'm I'm putting

Aaron

01:10:07 – 01:10:11

the team on my back in terms of topics here. You guys you guys gave me no topics.

Caleb

01:10:12 – 01:10:12

Oh, I'm

Aaron

01:10:12 – 01:10:13

I'm just barely

Daniel

01:10:13 – 01:10:14

talking about event sourcing. At any moment.

Aaron

01:10:15 – 01:10:15

Oh, goodness.

Caleb

01:10:16 – 01:10:20

I do actually have a sheet of paper, and on it, it does say event sourcing, but not boring.

Aaron

01:10:23 – 01:10:27

And therein lies the rub with the brand event sourcing. As long

Caleb

01:10:27 – 01:10:32

as you have an issue, we can't ever say the word event sourcing. Yeah. But here here's something I'm feeling about Laracon

Aaron

01:10:32 – 01:10:33

Tell me.

Caleb

01:10:33 – 01:10:41

Is that there are more people here Yeah. To meet Okay. Like, by a long shot than ever before.

Aaron

01:10:41 – 01:10:41

Mhmm.

Caleb

01:10:42 – 01:10:56

It just feels like there's so many new faces and so many people that it's, like, wow. Like, yeah. Of course, I wanna see this person and chat with them. But if I if I do that for every person that is on that roster, it's, like Mhmm. This is gonna be nuts.

Caleb

01:10:56 – 01:11:03

I don't know if my brain will be able to handle this socially. Like, I feel like it will short circuit and be absolutely zapped.

Daniel

01:11:03 – 01:11:17

You know what I'm doing? I'm playing poker the 2 days the 2 nights after Laracon, and I'm just gonna tell people, oh, yeah. I'm gonna be at TCH playing poker. So if you wanna come through, like, I don't know if you

Aaron

01:11:17 – 01:11:18

play poker, but, like,

Caleb

01:11:18 – 01:11:18

come through

Daniel

01:11:18 – 01:11:29

and, like, we kick it and talk. And and then it's, like, it gives me, like, a thing because I can't possibly talk to everyone. But I can't, like, give you a place where, like, if you're in town, like, come through. We can kick it and, like, be friends and

Caleb

01:11:29 – 01:11:30

Yeah.

Aaron

01:11:30 – 01:11:32

Play poker or whatever. What what is TCH?

Daniel

01:11:32 – 01:11:37

Texas card house, baby. It's a famous establishment. I'm excited.

Caleb

01:11:37 – 01:11:42

Texas card house. That's sweet. That's a good move. Yeah. And then that's Yeah.

Caleb

01:11:42 – 01:11:47

Oh, yeah. No. 2 days after kind of like thinned out, relax a little bit. Just chill. Exactly.

Caleb

01:11:47 – 01:11:47

Yeah. So

Daniel

01:11:47 – 01:11:50

So it's, like, anyone who's, like, left in town can, like

Caleb

01:11:50 – 01:12:03

Do you guys have that feeling at all that there's, like, more energy and people that are all, like, in this slurry of people that, you know, should that know each other online now, but not in person as much, like, than ever before. Yeah.

Aaron

01:12:03 – 01:12:22

It's fair. I do feel like this, Laracon is bringing more folks from outside the the traditional Laravel circles. Yeah. So there's a whole group of people inside the Laravel circle that I've never met in person, and I'm looking forward to meeting. Josh Siri, who we've mentioned on the show included.

Aaron

01:12:22 – 01:12:33

He's the guy that likes Versus code. And then, you know, a bunch of those people, but then there's also a bunch of people outside the circle. Like, all the the terminal coffee shop boys are coming.

Caleb

01:12:33 – 01:12:33

Drink

Aaron

01:12:33 – 01:12:38

some right now. Justin I think Justin Jackson is coming. John O'Nolan, the ghost guy.

Caleb

01:12:38 – 01:12:39

Oh, yeah. Cool.

Aaron

01:12:39 – 01:12:43

A lot of people that I'm I'm Internet friends with that I've never met.

Caleb

01:12:43 – 01:12:45

I love these projects. I think I'm saying that.

Aaron

01:12:45 – 01:12:47

Yeah. I it's gonna be a lot.

Caleb

01:12:47 – 01:12:48

It's gonna be so fun.

Aaron

01:12:48 – 01:12:49

It's gonna be a lot.

Caleb

01:12:49 – 01:13:05

What's the dynamic gonna be like with these non Laravel folks? Like, John O'Nolan is is he done Laravel? He he's he's done, like, Livewire stuff. So, like, he also is into the tech as well as being, you know, him and Node and Ghost and whatever. Yeah.

Aaron

01:13:05 – 01:13:07

He's he's done some Laravel stuff for sure.

Caleb

01:13:07 – 01:13:17

But some of the, like, non Laravel folks, like, it's just gonna be it's, dude, it's like when one friend from some other friend group is, like, with it and you're like, how do you how does this work? You know? Mhmm.

Aaron

01:13:17 – 01:13:19

You guys talk about random stuff that they have in common.

Caleb

01:13:19 – 01:13:21

You're like, I gotta do it.

Aaron

01:13:21 – 01:13:25

But Did you guys both have breakfast this morning? Talk about that for a little bit. That's crazy.

Daniel

01:13:25 – 01:13:26

Build your hygiene.

Caleb

01:13:26 – 01:13:27

Build your hygiene. Basic hygiene.

Aaron

01:13:27 – 01:13:28

Basic hygiene.

Caleb

01:13:28 – 01:13:30

Yeah. Basic hygiene? I hate

Aaron

01:13:30 – 01:13:33

by the way, I hate being the bridge guy in a in in a social setting

Daniel

01:13:33 – 01:13:34

Oh, yeah.

Aaron

01:13:34 – 01:13:38

Where there's 2 groups of friends, and I am the VIN overlap. I hate

Caleb

01:13:38 – 01:13:38

that. Mhmm.

Aaron

01:13:38 – 01:13:39

It's not do you have the

Caleb

01:13:39 – 01:13:45

personality that, like, like, I will make myself that out of my nature, and I hate it.

Daniel

01:13:45 – 01:13:46

Yes. Yeah.

Caleb

01:13:46 – 01:13:52

Like Yep. There's people who just have that hookspa to just be, like, whatever. Not my not my deal. Like

Aaron

01:13:52 – 01:13:54

No. Totally. Totally my deal. And I

Caleb

01:13:54 – 01:13:57

see Like, I am responsible for everybody's comfort. Yes.

Aaron

01:13:57 – 01:14:04

If I see somebody on the margins, I'm like, that's my my responsibility to make sure they get brought in. Yeah. For sure.

Daniel

01:14:04 – 01:14:13

So I don't I don't do it at scale. I like pick a person on the margins and make them my project for the conference. Yeah. But I I'm certainly not gonna do it for more than, like, 3 people.

Caleb

01:14:13 – 01:14:24

You're the guy. Daniel's the guy I'd be, like, whatever. Like, it's not my like, you don't feel that, but you are also the guy that yeah. You're not, like, the coordinator of the social experience.

Daniel

01:14:25 – 01:14:26

Well So you,

Caleb

01:14:26 – 01:14:28

you know yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Mhmm.

Caleb

01:14:29 – 01:14:29

Yeah. Yes.

Aaron

01:14:29 – 01:14:35

Trying to be a lot of fun. To meet. It's gonna be a lot of fun, but it is going to be mentally very taxing.

Daniel

01:14:35 – 01:14:36

It's gonna

Caleb

01:14:36 – 01:14:38

be a long time getting here. I think I'm going

Aaron

01:14:38 – 01:14:39

to fly Saturday night.

Caleb

01:14:39 – 01:14:40

I don't know the days.

Daniel

01:14:40 – 01:14:49

But Sunday alone in the hotel to just. Man, that's awesome. Do my thing. Crashes the talk. Well, don't talk to anybody.

Caleb

01:14:49 – 01:14:50

Yeah. Hell, yeah.

Daniel

01:14:50 – 01:14:52

Don't have any client work, you know?

Caleb

01:14:52 – 01:14:54

Because it's like I could

Daniel

01:14:54 – 01:14:57

fly Sunday and just spend that time here practicing.

Caleb

01:14:58 – 01:15:01

But Is Sunday what day is the first day of the conference? Isn't it Tuesday?

Daniel

01:15:02 – 01:15:04

Tuesday. Tuesday. So we have a Monday daytime activity.

Aaron

01:15:04 – 01:15:07

We have a football basketball. We We have a football baseball service.

Caleb

01:15:07 – 01:15:18

I have tiny babies, and I I'm flying in in the last minute, and I'm flying out at the very minute that I'm, like, that morning, like, right after the conference, which kinda sucks.

Aaron

01:15:18 – 01:15:19

But Lame. Yeah.

Caleb

01:15:19 – 01:15:23

It's, like, I gotta be in, out, back to What's the point squeezing babies.

Aaron

01:15:23 – 01:15:23

What's the point

Daniel

01:15:23 – 01:15:27

of living in Buffalo to be close to your family if you can't spend a week at a conference?

Aaron

01:15:27 – 01:15:28

No. That's a

Daniel

01:15:28 – 01:15:30

gamble. And drinking. True.

Caleb

01:15:30 – 01:15:39

You know? Networking. Sorry. The problem is, that my wife's parents run a summer camp all summer. Oh.

Caleb

01:15:40 – 01:15:48

So there's 0 from that side. But also the problem is that when they're really little, you can't just be, like, here you go, you know?

Daniel

01:15:48 – 01:15:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

01:15:48 – 01:15:55

We got a 4 week old We need, like, a winter Olympics version of Laracon. Yeah. By that, do you mean a, Laracon in the winter?

Daniel

01:15:56 – 01:15:56

Yeah. Downhill.

Caleb

01:15:56 – 01:15:59

Yeah. Mhmm. Downhill. Yeah. Mhmm.

Caleb

01:15:59 – 01:16:02

Mhmm. Yeah. That would be you mean, like, an in a winter venue?

Daniel

01:16:03 – 01:16:03

Yeah. In a winter venue.

Caleb

01:16:03 – 01:16:06

Chicago or something which takes, like, the most brutal.

Aaron

01:16:06 – 01:16:12

Yeah. Something absolutely brutal from Texas in August to Chicago in January. Perfect.

Caleb

01:16:12 – 01:16:23

Dude, that's what we should do. Yes. Well But I'm excited. I I I but I'm just not gonna speak at Laricons anymore, and then I'm gonna love Laricons, and then we can do a winter Laricon and just do hang ups and Is this your last

Aaron

01:16:23 – 01:16:24

is this your last rodeo?

Caleb

01:16:24 – 01:16:28

I honestly, I feel like this may be my last rodeo.

Daniel

01:16:28 – 01:16:31

Dude, just put a moratorium on launching things, dude.

Caleb

01:16:31 – 01:16:35

Yeah. I'll do online events. If we can do a Laracon online, I'll do that all day.

Daniel

01:16:35 – 01:16:36

Just give a talk.

Caleb

01:16:36 – 01:16:38

I just wanna go to Laracon and hang out with

Aaron

01:16:38 – 01:16:39

your stuff.

Caleb

01:16:39 – 01:16:41

Talking ruins it even if I didn't care about it.

Aaron

01:16:41 – 01:16:42

It does.

Caleb

01:16:42 – 01:17:07

I for me, I have to outdo whatever I did last time, so it will be I know. But it's, like, at that I just can't. I'm telling you, Daniel, that I will tell myself I can until 2 months before, and then I will ruin all of that and go back on my word, and my family will hate me. And I will be the worst everything to everyone, and I will also hate it. So, anyway, yeah, I think I'm just gonna stop doing talks at Laracon and just go to them and hang out.

Caleb

01:17:07 – 01:17:08

What do you think?

Aaron

01:17:08 – 01:17:12

I think that's a great idea. Sounds fun. Way, way, way, way for sure. Talk on a panel.

Daniel

01:17:12 – 01:17:15

Oh, yeah. Like wavin, dude. Love panel.

Aaron

01:17:15 – 01:17:20

Love a panel because then this is this is the secret of being the MC. You don't

Caleb

01:17:20 – 01:17:21

have to prepare a talk. Yeah.

Aaron

01:17:21 – 01:17:23

You still get invited to all the speaker stuff.

Caleb

01:17:23 – 01:17:24

Right.

Aaron

01:17:24 – 01:17:32

That is amazing. Hang out the night before with all the speakers and hang out backstage. Brand. Exactly. And then you don't you don't actually have to prepare a talk.

Aaron

01:17:32 – 01:17:36

You just get up there and you'd be folksy, and you do you know, you point at some people, and then you're, like, alright,

Caleb

01:17:36 – 01:17:37

here we go.

Daniel

01:17:37 – 01:17:38

Basic hygiene.

Caleb

01:17:38 – 01:18:03

Yep. Something that has changed about me that I wonder if it's I think it's because of being profitable basic hygiene is that, like, I don't care about being recognized anymore. So now all that a lot of that upside is gone, and now it's just downside to me. It's, like, oh, I would I I would rather just, you know, be hanging out on the couch, that kind of thing. Where, like, before it'd be, like, oh, I wanna go meet all these people and blah blah blah.

Caleb

01:18:03 – 01:18:13

And now it's, like, I would rather just not do any of that. And Mhmm. And because I think because of the the incentive is gone, it's, like, I don't know, you know?

Daniel

01:18:13 – 01:18:16

Are we gonna see Jack Harlow this year? That would be great.

Caleb

01:18:17 – 01:18:21

We should check who's gonna be in Dallas. Yeah. Who's Jack Harlow?

Daniel

01:18:22 – 01:18:23

He came last year.

Caleb

01:18:24 – 01:18:25

He's a rapper.

Aaron

01:18:26 – 01:18:27

Oh, yeah. I don't know him.

Caleb

01:18:27 – 01:18:29

He's a white rapper, though, so you might know him. You know?

Aaron

01:18:29 – 01:18:38

Is it Eminem? No. Because that's all I got. That's the only that's maybe the only rapper I know. Definitely the only white rapper I know.

Caleb

01:18:38 – 01:18:38

Yeah.

Aaron

01:18:39 – 01:18:42

Yeah. This is the I'm the wrong guy for the the hip hop talk.

Caleb

01:18:43 – 01:18:45

Yeah. Sorry about that. Well, you know.

Aaron

01:18:46 – 01:18:47

Caleb

01:18:47 – 01:18:47

Shall we?

Aaron

01:18:48 – 01:18:51

You're not excited. You're not excited about, about giving your talk. Well, you are.

Caleb

01:18:51 – 01:18:54

Yeah. I am. I know you're really jazzed on stage.

Aaron

01:18:54 – 01:18:55

Yeah. You'll put on a

Caleb

01:18:55 – 01:19:01

good show. And I I'll put on a good show, and I'm excited to put on the good show. It's just

Aaron

01:19:01 – 01:19:01

mixed in

Caleb

01:19:01 – 01:19:07

with all the stress and dread. You know? Okay. That is always there, but, I dig. It's just, yeah.

Caleb

01:19:07 – 01:19:22

So, no, I if I was giving a talk to, like, 50 people who just didn't care that much, I I would love that experience because I do love, like, you know, having everybody's attention and and, like, performing something and delivering something.

Aaron

01:19:22 – 01:19:24

Love putting on a show.

Caleb

01:19:24 – 01:19:34

I love putting on a show. Exactly. But, but yeah. So a lot of the benefits are not there to justify the taxing work involved. And yeah.

Caleb

01:19:34 – 01:19:46

And it's, like, well, if you're already gonna make money anyway and build something that you like that people already like, like, then that's that's what's that's what I'm in it for, ultimately. So yeah. So I do kind of hope this is my last lyric title.

Aaron

01:19:46 – 01:19:52

Okay. Wow. Don't don't miss this one because this is the last shot y'all will have to see him live and in person.

Caleb

01:19:52 – 01:19:56

I'll do an online talk, whatever. I don't know. But

Aaron

01:19:56 – 01:19:57

One of my things,

Daniel

01:19:58 – 01:19:58

I'll

Aaron

01:19:58 – 01:20:05

be building up the hype for Laracon. Okay. Daniel, over to you. How excited are you? Well, I so I think I have a new, philosophy.

Aaron

01:20:06 – 01:20:06

It's sorry. It's not

Daniel

01:20:06 – 01:20:17

a philosophy. It's like a it's an observation of my own toxic tendencies. It's not a I don't endorse it. It is what I do and it does work. And it is called too stressed to be scared.

Daniel

01:20:19 – 01:20:22

And that is a maneuver that I notice that I do all the

Aaron

01:20:22 – 01:20:23

time, which is just like,

Daniel

01:20:23 – 01:20:29

oh, big scary thing coming up. Just make yourself so busy that you literally can't even think straight.

Aaron

01:20:29 – 01:20:31

And then Yeah. It'll just happen before you know

Daniel

01:20:31 – 01:20:33

it, and you won't have had time to obsess about it.

Caleb

01:20:34 – 01:20:37

Yeah. Yeah. Dissection is is great.

Daniel

01:20:37 – 01:20:38

I do that problem with that

Caleb

01:20:38 – 01:20:45

until today. It will smack you the morning of Yeah. But it's, like, it's better than having it smack you every day for the

Aaron

01:20:46 – 01:20:56

But then you can you can flip to too blessed to be stressed. When that hits Too stressed to be scared, then too blessed to be stressed. Stressed to be scared. And then when it's too too much, you can say, I'm, you know, I'm just too blessed to be stressed. Mhmm.

Aaron

01:20:56 – 01:20:58

And then it boom. You're back.

Caleb

01:20:58 – 01:21:07

Mhmm. Yeah. My one solution that I that always works for me or helps is, like, whenever I get in my head, you just gotta go back to working

Aaron

01:21:07 – 01:21:10

on your talk and doing something that you think is really awesome.

Daniel

01:21:10 – 01:21:10

Right.

Caleb

01:21:10 – 01:21:20

And then it starts to it just fill you with, like, excitement. Because when I'm working on my talk and I'm in the zone, I'm actually very excited. I'm, like Mhmm. I can't wait to deliver this and show people this stuff. Mhmm.

Caleb

01:21:20 – 01:21:30

This stuff I'm really excited about. But then as as I get maybe farther away from the talk or from doing other things, then I just then it just becomes, like, a not good thing. You know?

Aaron

01:21:30 – 01:21:33

How many times y'all practice your talks before you give them?

Caleb

01:21:33 – 01:21:42

Historically, at, like, a zillion times, but, this year less. I've only done it for you guys and then one other group, so 2 times. Yeah.

Aaron

01:21:42 – 01:21:43

Oh, wow. Historically, I get solo?

Caleb

01:21:45 – 01:21:46

No. Okay. Wow.

Daniel

01:21:46 – 01:21:55

Damn. Historically, I get the beats, and then I spend the day before finding all the jokes. The jokes. Yeah. That's crazy.

Daniel

01:21:56 – 01:21:56

And Adam's the

Caleb

01:21:56 – 01:22:10

same way with, like, just kind of the amount of prep is, like, so minimal that it is always mind blowing, You know? And, like, wow. And so it probably is just a very good experience. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know if you were in the

Daniel

01:22:10 – 01:22:10

past one.

Caleb

01:22:10 – 01:22:13

I imagine you're like me. I I practice the shit out of it. Like Yeah.

Aaron

01:22:13 – 01:22:17

Yes. Yes. I practice dozens of times

Caleb

01:22:17 – 01:22:19

Oh, yeah. All the way through All the way through.

Aaron

01:22:20 – 01:22:26

Hair and makeup, which means put on, like, stand up, put a keynote on the screen, and use the clicker.

Caleb

01:22:27 – 01:22:29

Yep. Like Me too. Fully. Yeah. Yep.

Caleb

01:22:29 – 01:22:31

And you hit that timer and you go,

Aaron

01:22:32 – 01:22:35

this is gonna I'm doing this again, and it's going to take an hour,

Caleb

01:22:35 – 01:22:35

you know, or whatever.

Aaron

01:22:35 – 01:22:36

That is

Caleb

01:22:36 – 01:22:36

the worst part.

Aaron

01:22:36 – 01:22:37

That is

Caleb

01:22:37 – 01:22:37

the worst part. The start button

Aaron

01:22:37 – 01:22:41

on the iPhone, and you're like, this is gonna count up to 45 minutes. Right.

Caleb

01:22:41 – 01:22:41

And

Aaron

01:22:41 – 01:22:42

I'm gonna be here in

Caleb

01:22:42 – 01:22:45

the hotel like an idiot. This is unbearable. That is the worst part.

Aaron

01:22:45 – 01:22:46

That is the worst part.

Caleb

01:22:46 – 01:22:53

It's so Agreed. So bad. But, yeah, I I don't know. Anyway, talking. Yeah.

Caleb

01:22:53 – 01:22:53

Talking.

Daniel

01:22:53 – 01:23:06

I'm excited. Honestly, I I can't wait for Sunday in the hotel to just do the talk to myself a million times. Like that is that's what in my like Zen before the conference is like just lock myself in a room,

Caleb

01:23:06 – 01:23:07

put

Daniel

01:23:07 – 01:23:14

it on the TV in the hotel and then just like give the talk to myself in the hotel. Like that's like Hot Zen Get a talk. Marshall matters,

Aaron

01:23:15 – 01:23:15

you know?

Caleb

01:23:15 – 01:23:16

Mhmm.

Daniel

01:23:16 – 01:23:18

Are you familiar with that guy?

Aaron

01:23:18 – 01:23:19

I am. Marshall matters.

Caleb

01:23:19 – 01:23:22

Yeah. He's the other white rapper that I know. Yeah. He's the other one. Yeah.

Caleb

01:23:22 – 01:23:25

Yeah. Bad meets evil. Mhmm.

Aaron

01:23:25 – 01:23:30

Okay. Well, anything anything else on Laracon? That's the only topic. I I have these great

Caleb

01:23:30 – 01:23:31

The only topic, though.

Aaron

01:23:31 – 01:23:35

We'll wrap there. We could do a we could do a well gang and wrap it up.

Caleb

01:23:35 – 01:23:38

Well gang? Well, did we cue it?

Aaron

01:23:39 – 01:23:45

Yeah. We don't do that here. But do you anything else anything else would the people need to know? Basic hygiene is Daniels.

Caleb

01:23:45 – 01:23:45

Linda got hired.

Daniel

01:23:45 – 01:23:46

Is mine, TM.

Aaron

01:23:47 – 01:23:51

Linda got hired. Linda's name is Kelsey. Yeah. Or Linda.

Caleb

01:23:51 – 01:23:52

Yeah. You're Linda. You're Linda.

Aaron

01:23:53 – 01:23:56

Steve is alive. He was in the hospital for a week, but he's alive.

Daniel

01:23:56 – 01:23:56

I'm happy

Caleb

01:23:56 – 01:23:57

for him.

Daniel

01:23:57 – 01:23:58

Yeah. Same. Met him.

Caleb

01:23:59 – 01:24:00

I mean, you know

Daniel

01:24:00 – 01:24:00

What's he like?

Caleb

01:24:00 – 01:24:02

He's good. Alive. Tall.

Daniel

01:24:03 – 01:24:05

What's his vibe? Is he coming to Laracon? Yeah.

Aaron

01:24:05 – 01:24:09

He's coming to Laracon. Oh, cool. Super chill vibes. Alright. Good.

Aaron

01:24:09 – 01:24:09

He'll be

Caleb

01:24:09 – 01:24:10

all healed up?

Aaron

01:24:10 – 01:24:12

Yeah. He'll be all healed up.

Caleb

01:24:12 – 01:24:15

Alright. Yeah. So a mountain biking accident?

Aaron

01:24:15 – 01:24:17

Mountain biking accident. Arm got infected.

Caleb

01:24:18 – 01:24:18

That's cool.

Aaron

01:24:19 – 01:24:23

Had to get surgery to clean out his joint, which is just horrifying.

Caleb

01:24:24 – 01:24:24

My Yeah.

Aaron

01:24:24 – 01:24:25

I'm not gonna bore

Daniel

01:24:25 – 01:24:27

you guys with an infection story.

Caleb

01:24:27 – 01:24:29

I Are you hesitant to tell it?

Aaron

01:24:29 – 01:24:35

Do not want to hear an infection story. And that's why. Yeah. More than anything, I do not wanna hear an infection story.

Caleb

01:24:36 – 01:24:37

Yeah. Big time. I can do.

Daniel

01:24:37 – 01:24:39

You seem like a squeem. Yeah.

Aaron

01:24:39 – 01:24:50

Are you I have 4 children. I've changed a 1000000 diapers, and I've changed 2 diapers ever without wearing surgical gloves. So I'm I would I'm a little bit a bit of yours. Yeah. I fly loose with

Caleb

01:24:50 – 01:24:52

the with the diapers for sure.

Aaron

01:24:52 – 01:24:54

No. No. No. No. No, sir.

Aaron

01:24:55 – 01:24:55

No can

Caleb

01:24:55 – 01:24:57

do button. Moments. Yeah.

Aaron

01:24:57 – 01:25:05

Nope. Yeah. Some Nope. I don't I don't wanna hear about it. I didn't listen to your entire episode about she found a booger in my hair because I couldn't go

Caleb

01:25:05 – 01:25:06

through it. Don't listen

Aaron

01:25:06 – 01:25:06

to it.

Caleb

01:25:06 – 01:25:09

It's basically the grossest thing I've ever recorded.

Aaron

01:25:09 – 01:25:16

Yeah. I mean, you started talking about snot rockets, and I was like I I understand, but I can't listen to this. Right. I like the idea of you.

Caleb

01:25:17 – 01:25:19

Daniel, I don't know if you let did you listen to that, Daniel?

Daniel

01:25:19 – 01:25:21

No. But I just like

Aaron

01:25:21 – 01:25:35

the idea of, like, Aaron with, like, maybe carrying 2 babies and, like, strollering 2 more through, like, a mall in Dallas retching with AirPods in. Yeah. Truly. Truly. I have the shortest gag reflex ever.

Aaron

01:25:35 – 01:25:44

I will I will absolutely be able to listen to something gross and start gagging as if I'm about to throw it. Uh-huh. Exactly.

Caleb

01:25:44 – 01:25:45

Oh, that's crazy.

Aaron

01:25:45 – 01:25:46

100%. Yeah.

Daniel

01:25:46 – 01:25:48

Yeah. Retching is hilarious to me. I don't

Aaron

01:25:48 – 01:25:49

know why.

Caleb

01:25:49 – 01:25:53

I think me and Daniel are just, like, degenerates. Like, I don't know. I don't know.

Aaron

01:25:53 – 01:26:00

I mean, there's there's an outside possibility that I'm a soft boy. There there's that is just minuscule possibility.

Caleb

01:26:00 – 01:26:06

Is it so my wife can't handle blood at all, like, she faints, or talking about any of this stuff? What's that, Dave?

Daniel

01:26:06 – 01:26:08

I'm not not talking about it. But one time we

Aaron

01:26:08 – 01:26:16

were watching a show on TV, and she just Really? What? Yeah. I don't have I don't really have a blood a blood queasiness issue.

Caleb

01:26:16 – 01:26:17

Oh, that's good.

Aaron

01:26:17 – 01:26:27

I don't prefer I get my blood drawn, you know, many times a year because of type 1 diabetes, which is, you know, too bad. You can't laugh. This is a disease.

Caleb

01:26:27 – 01:26:30

I don't have any control of this. Disease. Deficits.

Aaron

01:26:30 – 01:26:36

It's very inappropriate. And I never watch him draw my blood. I can't watch that. I oh, it's horrifying. Yeah.

Aaron

01:26:36 – 01:26:38

That's true. Pass out if I

Caleb

01:26:38 – 01:26:40

see it. Right. Right. Right. Okay.

Caleb

01:26:40 – 01:26:44

Yeah. So you're more of, like, you're squeamish. You're, like, gross squeamish. Like, you

Aaron

01:26:44 – 01:26:45

do all. Squeamish. Yeah.

Caleb

01:26:45 – 01:26:50

You're, like, have you ever seen us osmosis Jones? No. Is that a rapper? Hate it. That's it's a rapper.

Caleb

01:26:50 – 01:26:51

It's a white guy. Okay.

Aaron

01:26:51 – 01:26:52

I don't know.

Caleb

01:26:52 – 01:26:58

No. Osmosis Jones. You've never seen that movie, Daniel? Really? This is, like, an animated movie around our time.

Caleb

01:26:58 – 01:27:03

So when we were, like, kids, this would have been a movie that, what's happening? Magic School

Daniel

01:27:03 – 01:27:04

Bus adjacent? Is this educational?

Caleb

01:27:04 – 01:27:17

No. It it's, Bill Murray's in it, and Oh. He's just he plays a gross guy. And then Yeah. It's, like, a whole thing about, like, cartoons being in his bloodstream or whatever and and experiencing the internals of him being a gross guy.

Caleb

01:27:17 – 01:27:24

But he Mhmm. Does that act, like, really well, and you're really just grossed out the whole you're, like, that guy's freaking gross. Mhmm. So Aaron would hate it. Yeah.

Aaron

01:27:24 – 01:27:26

That's a no for me. Not

Caleb

01:27:28 – 01:27:33

Aaron. Yeah. So you yeah. That's that's something. The gloves are smart, because sometimes, you know, you might poke through or something.

Caleb

01:27:33 – 01:27:36

You don't know. You don't know what's going on. Do not wanna pokes through.

Aaron

01:27:36 – 01:27:39

I don't know what that means, but you do not want that to happen.

Caleb

01:27:39 – 01:27:43

Do you guys ever watch I Think You Should Leave? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel

01:27:43 – 01:27:43

Yeah. Oh my

Aaron

01:27:43 – 01:27:44

gosh. That the

Caleb

01:27:44 – 01:27:45

funniest freaking show that, like

Aaron

01:27:46 – 01:27:53

The funniest, it's it's hit or miss. It is the funniest show in the world, or it's, like, this is so stupid.

Caleb

01:27:53 – 01:27:54

So stupid.

Aaron

01:27:54 – 01:27:57

And I hit next and go to the next one. But, yes.

Caleb

01:27:57 – 01:27:58

Like, I think my dad would be, like

Aaron

01:27:58 – 01:28:00

funniest show in the world.

Caleb

01:28:00 – 01:28:27

But is it right? There whatever. There's some there's a whole bit about, like, stupidest thing ever, but the dude who gives somebody a gift, and it's basically, he accuses the guy at a birthday party, whose birthday it is, of having, like, wiped with a small, a paper a toilet paper thing. And and now he's touching and how his stomach hurts because he's contaminated. Did you guys see it?

Caleb

01:28:27 – 01:28:28

Okay. If you didn't see it Yeah.

Aaron

01:28:28 – 01:28:30

I'm not gonna make your podcast the most

Caleb

01:28:30 – 01:28:34

gross podcast the way I made mine, but it's extremely hilarious.

Aaron

01:28:34 – 01:28:38

We're gonna need a we're gonna need a need a lot of help from producer Dave on this.

Daniel

01:28:38 – 01:28:39

Aaron, we're here

Aaron

01:28:39 – 01:28:41

to let you down. Brand.

Caleb

01:28:41 – 01:28:44

Down at the end. Exactly. We're, like Get on our webinar. Take that tie and just

Aaron

01:28:46 – 01:28:47

Yeah. Roll

Caleb

01:28:47 – 01:28:49

up your sleeves. Yeah. Aaron, do

Daniel

01:28:49 – 01:28:50

you have any tattoos?

Caleb

01:28:51 – 01:28:52

No. We're gonna get Are

Daniel

01:28:52 – 01:28:54

you ever gonna get one?

Aaron

01:28:54 – 01:29:00

I thought about getting a half sleeve or, like, a 3 quarter sleeve. Wait. But That's such a dramatic departure

Daniel

01:29:00 – 01:29:03

from no tattoos. Why would you do that? No.

Aaron

01:29:03 – 01:29:03

I just realized

Caleb

01:29:03 – 01:29:05

one on my on my, like,

Aaron

01:29:05 – 01:29:10

cheekbone. Yeah. I was thinking about putting a a devil eye in the middle of my forehead. I

Daniel

01:29:10 – 01:29:10

don't know.

Aaron

01:29:10 – 01:29:22

No. I wouldn't do anything crazy, but I just you know, sleeves are cool. And 3 quarter sleeves are 100% as cool as a full length sleeve. So it's like you get a little bonus there. But I realized 5.

Aaron

01:29:22 – 01:29:34

No. They're a 100% as cool. But I realized, like, you know, I don't think I'm a sleeve guy, but you know who else wasn't a sleeve guy? Every guy before they got a sleeve, and then you then you're a sleeve guy.

Caleb

01:29:34 – 01:29:42

That's the that's the thing cool. Right. Like, I felt that way too. It's, like, like, I, you know, I haven't suffered enough or, like, I'm not hardcore enough.

Aaron

01:29:42 – 01:29:42

Right.

Caleb

01:29:42 – 01:29:49

Like Exactly. You know, I just can't go doing that, but but I think there's guys softer than me who have sleeves, you know. Yeah. For sure. No.

Caleb

01:29:49 – 01:29:52

0. 0? Yeah. I would have thought you

Daniel

01:29:52 – 01:29:54

would have some from your days as a piece of shit.

Caleb

01:29:54 – 01:30:06

I know. And and I've thought so many times that that I should get one, and I feel like I do kinda deserve one a little bit for being such a piece of shit for so long. But, you know? Gosh.

Aaron

01:30:06 – 01:30:09

Alright. Laracon, 3rd, please use me both.

Caleb

01:30:09 – 01:30:12

Actual legit he so Daniel's tattoos tattoos

Daniel

01:30:12 – 01:30:13

They're the worst.

Caleb

01:30:13 – 01:30:18

That's old. That or that's, like, you're not hardcore if you do that anymore. Right? Because me and Aaron are gonna get sleeves.

Aaron

01:30:18 – 01:30:18

We're not hardcore.

Caleb

01:30:18 – 01:30:25

They have the Daniel has, like like, my cousin John, like, you know, you got, like, the toothbrush or something and did, like, a prison tattoo. Prison tattoo.

Daniel

01:30:25 – 01:30:30

I got stick and pose. I got tattoos. So Yeah. They're all bad too. I don't have any good tattoos.

Caleb

01:30:31 – 01:30:38

Mhmm. Daniel's hardcore. He's he's got the tattoos that That sounds pretty hardcore. You see, and you're, like, you're, like, okay, dude. That guy's seen some stuff.

Caleb

01:30:38 – 01:30:39

Yeah.

Daniel

01:30:39 – 01:30:44

Yeah. This guy, you know. F13 key on my hand. That's pretty neat one.

Caleb

01:30:44 – 01:30:46

You got that since I've known you.

Aaron

01:30:46 – 01:30:47

That's a real tattoo?

Caleb

01:30:48 – 01:30:48

Yeah, dude.

Aaron

01:30:48 – 01:30:50

No way. Yeah.

Caleb

01:30:51 – 01:30:52

That's pretty hardcore.

Aaron

01:30:52 – 01:30:54

That's good content. Look at that.

Caleb

01:30:54 – 01:30:55

Show the new

Aaron

01:30:56 – 01:30:57

it's I'm wearing a hoodie.

Caleb

01:30:57 – 01:31:02

Oh, it's on his ass. Sorry. I just put him in a weird spot.

Aaron

01:31:03 – 01:31:04

Well, gang?

Daniel

01:31:04 – 01:31:09

Is this a little blue for you, Aaron? Is this a little blue for your normal mostly technical content? I think we're

Aaron

01:31:09 – 01:31:10

making that worse as we go.

Caleb

01:31:10 – 01:31:11

Like, no.

Aaron

01:31:11 – 01:31:13

We've done another one.

Daniel

01:31:13 – 01:31:21

Yeah. And anything real wholesome content anyone wanted to cover? Anything really just unobjectionable? Anyone had No. Faulty?

Aaron

01:31:22 – 01:31:30

Yeah. The well the well has run dry. I think we're done here. Caleb, it's great to hear that you want to event source. But not boring.

Aaron

01:31:30 – 01:31:30

Right.

Caleb

01:31:30 – 01:31:32

Not boring. The last episode. Let's talk about event sourcing for the

Aaron

01:31:32 – 01:31:36

last 30 seconds. Episode. Okay. So you want

Daniel

01:31:36 – 01:31:37

to event source?

Caleb

01:31:37 – 01:31:44

Yeah. I do want an event source, and currently, I'm writing code that I know I will hate, and I think event sourcing will save me. But I also think event sourcing is so complicated and Agreed.

Aaron

01:31:45 – 01:31:45

And is,

Daniel

01:31:45 – 01:31:48

like What's the thing that's complicated? Give me give me, like, give me 3 in

Aaron

01:31:48 – 01:31:50

his eyes. Did you see that? Blast him.

Caleb

01:31:50 – 01:31:50

I'm gonna

Aaron

01:31:50 – 01:31:51

blast him. I'm gonna blast him. Brows got fur coat.

Caleb

01:31:51 – 01:31:52

Go put it quick. Go put it.

Aaron

01:31:52 – 01:31:53

Eyes got big.

Caleb

01:31:53 – 01:32:01

Okay. You thought you simplified you did simplify things. This is not an insult with making, like, states and events separate. Like, still too complicated. It's, like, what's a state?

Caleb

01:32:01 – 01:32:12

Now it's optional. Okay. This is weird. It's, like, I just need one thing, not even 2 things, and, IDs. I saw it.

Caleb

01:32:12 – 01:32:26

The for the listener, I did install some event sourcing stuff for, like, an hour just to see if it, like, if it doesn't take me forever to get a hold of, and I was feeling, like, pretty alright. But the buy in, it feels like you need to, like, kinda do stuff to your whole app.

Aaron

01:32:26 – 01:32:26

You don't.

Caleb

01:32:26 – 01:32:28

Oh, I have to mess with my users table and stuff.

Aaron

01:32:28 – 01:32:29

You now don't.

Caleb

01:32:29 – 01:32:33

And now I'm, like, I'm, like, oh, no. I'm not doing it. Nope. Yeah. You now don't.

Caleb

01:32:33 – 01:32:33

There's

Aaron

01:32:34 – 01:32:39

there's a point where you needed unique IDs on your models, and you don't anymore. And we've actually shipped the change, but not shipped

Daniel

01:32:39 – 01:32:41

the documentation change that

Caleb

01:32:41 – 01:32:41

tells you

Daniel

01:32:41 – 01:32:42

you don't have to do this anymore.

Caleb

01:32:43 – 01:32:56

Cool. The verb stocks have a lot of good this is what's great about it, and I think is, like, going to be the key to event sourcing. If anybody cracks it, it's gonna be here's what your model looks like. Here's what it looks like with verbs. Here's what your controller looks like.

Caleb

01:32:56 – 01:33:07

Here's what it looks like with verbs. Like, I have to see what I know to travel to this new thing. Otherwise, I am incapable of wrapping my head around it. So

Daniel

01:33:08 – 01:33:10

Yeah. Yeah. No. I think so. Yep.

Daniel

01:33:10 – 01:33:18

I really do think that I have to make screencasts in order to pull the docs back out of the screencasts.

Caleb

01:33:18 – 01:33:19

Sure. Yeah. You

Daniel

01:33:19 – 01:33:23

know what I'm saying? Because I, every time I try

Aaron

01:33:23 – 01:33:26

and like write like simple docs examples, I'm like,

Daniel

01:33:26 – 01:33:28

I don't know that I'm telling the story well enough.

Caleb

01:33:28 – 01:33:32

Like if you're telling it to a friend, you would do a much better job. So you kind of have

Aaron

01:33:32 – 01:33:33

to do that and then Yeah.

Caleb

01:33:33 – 01:33:34

And then take that.

Daniel

01:33:34 – 01:33:41

I think I just have to go ahead and bite the bullet and do, like, a 5 video series on building an app, and that's

Caleb

01:33:41 – 01:33:42

just gonna have to be what I do.

Aaron

01:33:42 – 01:33:45

Make it make it 10 or 20 videos, and yes, I agree.

Daniel

01:33:45 – 01:33:46

You think 10 or 20?

Caleb

01:33:46 – 01:33:52

I feel like you could get out the I think verbs, like onboarding experience could be something that somebody could understand like that.

Daniel

01:33:53 – 01:33:54

Yeah. Totally. Yep.

Aaron

01:33:54 – 01:33:55

If you're

Caleb

01:33:55 – 01:33:56

gonna build a whole app, I

Aaron

01:33:56 – 01:34:03

think you need to I think you need to you need to go all the way, and I think it needs to be 10 or 15. They can be shorter, but it needs to be

Daniel

01:34:03 – 01:34:05

10 or 15, like, 10 minute episodes?

Aaron

01:34:05 – 01:34:07

Yeah. 5 to 10 minute episodes.

Daniel

01:34:07 – 01:34:09

Oh, that's totally doable.

Caleb

01:34:09 – 01:34:32

I don't know. I mean, I guess that would be good, but I feel like the play for verbs is doubling down on the story of introducing it into an existing application. Yeah. Just like here's that one tricky model or even the one feature that you want to add. You can wall off the event sourcing into 1 folder and one trait on your model or something and one LIBOR component or whatever.

Caleb

01:34:32 – 01:34:46

And then then you can yeah. I need to be able to wall it off and, you know, just test it test the waters a little bit. Yeah. And I feel like it's really close to that. There were just a few things that started to, like, crawl out, and I was like,

Daniel

01:34:47 – 01:34:48

but Totally.

Aaron

01:34:48 – 01:34:48

Yeah.

Caleb

01:34:48 – 01:34:56

Yep. Anyway. Yep. And real quick, one thing that somebody replied to something on Twitter that Aaron's trying to leave. You could just leave Aaron for it.

Caleb

01:34:57 – 01:34:57

We'll wrap

Daniel

01:34:57 – 01:34:58

this up.

Caleb

01:34:58 – 01:35:00

Give pull this up for you. It's good.

Aaron

01:35:00 – 01:35:00

It's good.

Caleb

01:35:00 – 01:35:00

It's good.

Aaron

01:35:00 – 01:35:01

Well, I don't have anything to do.

Caleb

01:35:01 – 01:35:21

It's somebody said on Twitter that, like, event sourcing, is just a collection of really good ideas. And so you can apply these ideas, like, you know, I don't they didn't say this, but let's say something like idempotency. You know? Uh-huh. It's like making an action that you can fire accidentally fire it 10 times, and it isn't a destructive thing now.

Caleb

01:35:21 – 01:35:34

Like, there's idempotency. There's, whatever, eventing, I guess. But they listed out, like, a few things, and I was, like, oh, that's really cool because these are all things oh, CQRS or whatever, like, that type of stuff. So none

Daniel

01:35:34 – 01:35:35

of that stuff is event sourcing.

Aaron

01:35:35 – 01:35:38

CQRS, DDD, all these things, that's where I

Caleb

01:35:38 – 01:35:38

start to

Aaron

01:35:38 – 01:35:42

that's where my eyes start to glaze over. It's too many things, but Too many things.

Caleb

01:35:42 – 01:35:46

Event sourcing is sort of an umbrella for these ideas, these patterns, and So

Daniel

01:35:46 – 01:35:47

I I actually don't think so.

Aaron

01:35:47 – 01:35:51

I think event sourcing is actually the simple thing, and these patterns grow up around event sourcing.

Caleb

01:35:51 – 01:35:52

Okay.

Aaron

01:35:52 – 01:35:55

The but it's like it's like, in the water, though. Once you're in

Daniel

01:35:55 – 01:35:59

a once you're into event sourcing, you probably know about CQRS too.

Caleb

01:35:59 – 01:36:06

Right. I smile. You CQRS is a word that is on verbs. I learned about it more deeply because of verbs.

Aaron

01:36:06 – 01:36:06

Boy,

Daniel

01:36:06 – 01:36:09

it's one of the few jargons that we allowed. So

Aaron

01:36:09 – 01:36:11

Y'all allowed CQRS into

Daniel

01:36:11 – 01:36:15

It's in advanced nested docs page. It's deep. Wow.

Aaron

01:36:15 – 01:36:17

It's nowhere near the front of the website.

Caleb

01:36:17 – 01:36:18

Maybe. I don't

Aaron

01:36:19 – 01:36:25

know. Next next before you know it, you're gonna have orthogonal architecture on there. Hexagonal even. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

01:36:25 – 01:36:29

If you wanna go with fewer sides, hex is 6. Is that right?

Daniel

01:36:29 – 01:36:30

What's ortho? Orth

Aaron

01:36:31 – 01:36:32

is 8. Right?

Daniel

01:36:32 – 01:36:33

No. That's octagonal.

Aaron

01:36:34 – 01:36:38

No. Orthopedic doctor is a doctor for 8 bones. It's right. Ortho.

Daniel

01:36:38 – 01:36:40

No. It's just for spiders who have 8 feet.

Aaron

01:36:40 – 01:36:41

That's

Caleb

01:36:41 – 01:36:49

right. Ortho. Yeah. Orthogonal architecture. But when it when there's, like, diagrams for it, I think it is like a hexagon or an arc orthogonal.

Caleb

01:36:49 – 01:36:50

It means like,

Daniel

01:36:51 – 01:36:57

doesn't orthogonal mean like Yeah. Like not adjacent, like off off in a Yeah.

Aaron

01:36:58 – 01:37:01

Okay. I'm gonna be honest. I had no idea what that word meant when I said it.

Caleb

01:37:01 – 01:37:03

Well, like, orthogonally speaking

Aaron

01:37:03 – 01:37:06

hexagonal. Yeah. People say like speaking. That's sort

Daniel

01:37:06 – 01:37:08

of like orthogonal to the point that I was making.

Caleb

01:37:08 – 01:37:09

You have to

Daniel

01:37:09 – 01:37:13

take a right turn of the, like, tangential. Yeah. Yeah. Tangential. Hexagonal

Aaron

01:37:14 – 01:37:16

of pertaining to a hexagon.

Caleb

01:37:16 – 01:37:17

Right.

Aaron

01:37:17 – 01:37:18

Yeah. Makes sense.

Daniel

01:37:18 – 01:37:20

Yeah. There's a Scottish guy who likes it.

Caleb

01:37:20 – 01:37:26

Who likes. Oh, who likes what? Steve. Which Scottish guy like which things?

Aaron

01:37:26 – 01:37:28

I don't remember his name. Or like that. I remember,

Daniel

01:37:28 – 01:37:35

I remember he's always posting job posts and saying, as this is a Laravel job, it's suitable for a beginner.

Caleb

01:37:36 – 01:37:36

Oh, okay.

Aaron

01:37:36 – 01:37:38

That's You know who I'm talking about.

Caleb

01:37:38 – 01:37:39

That's real.

Aaron

01:37:39 – 01:37:40

Feels yeah. Don't love that.

Caleb

01:37:41 – 01:37:41

Alright.

Aaron

01:37:41 – 01:37:42

Don't love that at all.

Caleb

01:37:42 – 01:37:46

Okay. I'll hit my my button of, like okay. I'm ready to leave now too.

Aaron

01:37:46 – 01:37:55

Oh, yeah. I'll wave the white flag. Yeah. Alright. Well, gang, now now that the guests have agreed, we're we're done here.

Daniel

01:37:55 – 01:37:57

Yeah. Welcome to this is how we do things.

Caleb

01:37:57 – 01:38:00

Welcome to no plans to be Go take your vision. We're done

Daniel

01:38:00 – 01:38:01

an hour ago.

Aaron

01:38:01 – 01:38:03

No control over any of this.

Daniel

01:38:04 – 01:38:06

Yeah. You're outnumbered. That was the mistake. Yeah.

Caleb

01:38:06 – 01:38:10

That is the mistake. Right. If it was just one of us, we'd buy.

Aaron

01:38:10 – 01:38:20

Foisted. That was that was my fault. Mostlytechnical.com@mostlytechpodmostlytechnicalpodcast@gmail.com. Do you guys wanna show anything besides basic hygiene?

Caleb

01:38:21 – 01:38:22

Just basic hygiene for me.

Aaron

01:38:22 – 01:38:29

Yeah. Every day when I wake up, I go to funk.dev, and I hire me. Mhmm. That's good basic hygiene. Alright.

Aaron

01:38:29 – 01:38:31

Basic hygiene. Matt. We'll see you next time.

Mostly NPTM with Caleb Porzio & Daniel Coulbourne

Transcript

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