Aaron Francis

In this episode, JB is joined by Aaron Francis, Co-Founder of Try Hard Studios. Aaron shares his story around balancing Fatherhood of two sets of twins (not four sets of twins...lol) while being the sole provider of the family, who faced a layoff and delving into the self-employed world. We also talk about witnessing to others about Christ through the quality of our character and even our work. Connect with Aaron Francis LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/aarondfrancis/ X - https://x.com/aarondfrancis Personal Site - https://aaronfrancis.com/ Try Hard Studios - https://www.tryhardstudios.com/ You are invited to join us over at the codeFellowship( ) Community - https://discord.gg/eK97ZnECPk Follow us on Social Media: X - https://x.com/code_fellowship LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/codefellowship/ Other ways to listen to the podcast: Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/2hV6L1ezAvj70fErjndfD1 Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/codefellowship/id1609574437 Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 02:53 Balancing Family Life with Work 06:00 Navigating Parenthood with Twins 08:50 The Impact of Layoffs and Starting Anew 11:50 Transitioning to Entrepreneurship 15:05 Building a New Business 17:56 Faith and Professional Life 20:59 Finding Clarity in Uncertainty 27:12 The Journey to Entrepreneurship 30:57 Balancing Work and Family Life 33:49 Exploring New Opportunities 36:10 Finding Spiritual Balance 43:07 Encouragement and Vulnerability in Faith 46:31 The Importance of Diligence and Integrity Thanks for Listening. God Bless! #faith #christianity #podcast #technology #coding #developerlife

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Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:00:24

What's going on, guys? JB here with Code Fellowship where purpose meets function, and I'm really excited for this guest that we had on a podcast here. His name is Aaron Francis. I've been following him for over over a year or so, about two years. I did not know he was a believer until, like, just most recently when he was on the safe file podcast with, Glover Costa of.

00:00:24 – 00:00:41

So, that was really interesting. I was also on that podcast as well. So it was really cool to see Aaron, on the podcast and getting to know more about his faith. And fair warning, disclaimer, get out your Kleenex because this might be a tear jerker. That's just Aaron.

00:00:42 – 00:00:56

If you haven't seen Lyricon, that's also discerned. But, yeah. Aaron, welcome to the Code Fellowship podcast. Introduce yourself, where you're from, what you do, and how does your faith in Christ intersect with your tech work?

Aaron Francis

00:00:57 – 00:01:02

Yeah. Of course. Thank Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. My name is Aaron Francis.

Aaron Francis

00:01:02 – 00:01:27

Like you said, I am, historically a software developer, now kind of like a developer educator. We'll get into it. But my friend Steve and I started a company, back in April. So we've been at it for, I guess, six months now. And, I live in Dallas, Texas with my family, wife and four kids.

Aaron Francis

00:01:27 – 00:01:40

We have two sets of twins. Oh. So, yeah. We're, we're pretty busy and pretty tired. We have two three year olds and two almost one year olds, so they're all packed in super tight.

Aaron Francis

00:01:41 – 00:02:15

And I think the last question was, how does my my faith influence my work? My, I I have found myself in a very public position, and my goal is to be a witness for the gospel in that public position. And I think there are, different styles and formats that people adopt, but mine mine is to be, mine is to be a witness for the goodness of Christ in my daily work.

00:02:16 – 00:02:29

Amen. Yeah. That's that's really awesome. And and, like, we were just talking about before we recorded the purpose of, Code Fellowship and how that was born. And, like, you embody that in that statement right there.

00:02:29 – 00:02:39

So that's great. I know a lot of people are, like, you know, they're, like, knock down the door and be, like, I'm a soldier for Christ. Right? Yeah. Like, not not really my style.

00:02:39 – 00:02:46

Right. Exactly. And there's some that are like us. We we do it with our life, and God is always in our tongue.

Aaron Francis

00:02:46 – 00:02:47

Mhmm.

00:02:47 – 00:02:54

So, like, that's that's awesome. So, yeah, let's dive into the conversation a little bit more. You have four sets of twins, which is Well,

Aaron Francis

00:02:54 – 00:03:00

thank goodness. Two sets of twins, which totals totals to four kids. Don't don't speak that upon me. Yeah.

00:03:02 – 00:03:05

Sorry. I misspoke. That was too funny. I misspoke. Yeah.

00:03:05 – 00:03:06

Two sets of toys. Yeah.

Aaron Francis

00:03:06 – 00:03:06

Whew.

00:03:07 – 00:03:14

We did the math really well. Holy smokes. You have four children. That's what I had to say. Yes.

00:03:14 – 00:03:18

Yes. Yes. I have I have three. I'm just one shy away from you. They're just not twins.

00:03:18 – 00:03:21

Yep. But we staying at three. Factory is closed. So we're good.

Aaron Francis

00:03:21 – 00:03:24

Yeah. We're closing up the factory next week in fact.

00:03:25 – 00:03:43

Yeah. Yeah. So, how's that been? That's I I'm sure that's really challenging not only from, like, a physical and mental perspective, but for me, like, three with one child, spiritually, everything was okay. But when you start adding, like, another one, oh, okay.

00:03:44 – 00:03:53

You had three, four? How's that been for you, like, as a as a father who provides? I think you're the full time provider. Right?

Aaron Francis

00:03:53 – 00:03:53

I am.

00:03:53 – 00:04:19

And then and then from a spiritual perspective, how do you been able to balance, like, your work and, like, your family life? I've always found myself more workaholic than, like, a family figure. And then, God actually spoke to me through his word, like, last year and told me to be more present with my children. Mhmm. Especially in this current season of the layoff that I had.

00:04:20 – 00:04:22

Mhmm. So how how's that been for you?

Aaron Francis

00:04:23 – 00:04:48

Oh, just incredibly difficult, to be frank. I mean, you know, all we've ever known is twins, and so that's a little bit, you know, that's a little bit different. So we didn't, you know, have a singleton and then get walloped with twins. We just kind of got walloped twice with twins. And so that part, I I don't really have anything to compare it to as far as, what it's like to have multiples versus not.

00:04:48 – 00:04:48

Mhmm.

Aaron Francis

00:04:48 – 00:05:25

And so that part is just kind of what it is. I think, in terms of, like, in terms of of challenges, I mean, having two newborns is incredibly difficult. Having two two year olds, two three year olds, it's all just like, those first several years I'm learning are very difficult, just as, like, the kids age through, you know, learning how to be a human being, and then you just kinda, like, double it. Right? And so that's been that's just been incredibly difficult.

Aaron Francis

00:05:26 – 00:05:50

And then on top of it to have, you know, two two and a half year olds and then two newborns at the same time, I think that was maybe the most physically challenging portion of my life. Because when we had the first set of twins, it was like, alright. If the if the twins are asleep, I can be asleep. Even if it's, like, the middle of a Tuesday and, you know, I'm on paternity leave or whatever. Mhmm.

Aaron Francis

00:05:50 – 00:06:24

But now, you know, when you stay up all night with little twins and then you get up the next day and the big ones, like, still exist and want to Yes. Like, be played with and have things to do and need to be cared for and that sort of thing. And so that just got to be very, very hard, both physically and and mentally. Those first those first several months of the new set of twins complete, like, total blur, barely remember any of it. We are fortunate to have a lot of help.

Aaron Francis

00:06:24 – 00:07:00

Like, we have grandparents nearby. Both in fact, my parents and my wife's parents both live within hers are 10, and mine are thirty, forty minutes away. And so they're they're here to help quite often. When we had when we had the twins, the newborns, both times, actually, we got, a night nurse that helped us a few nights a week, because there's just, like, there's no with the with two of them, both parents are waking up every three hours to feed. There is no, like, hey.

Aaron Francis

00:07:00 – 00:07:06

You take tonight. I'll take tomorrow night. Because there's two of them, and so there's just no way that, like, one adult can handle it.

00:07:06 – 00:07:08

And so infinite loop in your coat.

Aaron Francis

00:07:08 – 00:07:39

It is. Yes. And so, like, the night nurse, the night nurse would come at, like, 8PM and stay till, like, 6AM, and she would, she would help feed one of, and sometimes both of them, help feed one or both of them overnight so that we could get more sleep. And so she came, you know, three or four nights a week for, like, the first, I don't know, six weeks or something, and that, like, helped us survive. And then we now have an au pair that lives with us in our house because

00:07:40 – 00:07:41

A what?

Aaron Francis

00:07:41 – 00:07:48

Yeah. It's a it's a I think it's a French word, an au pair, a u space p a I r, au pair.

00:07:48 – 00:07:49

It's like a nanny?

Aaron Francis

00:07:49 – 00:08:06

Yeah. Basically. Except it is, it is a program, I think, through the state department that's basically like a cultural exchange program. Oh. And so our au pair happens to be from Germany, but they come from all over the place.

Aaron Francis

00:08:06 – 00:08:20

And in fact, it does work the other way. You can go be an as an American, you can go be an au pair in another country. But, basically, the deal is, we give her name's Jasmine. We give Jasmine a place to live. We give her food.

Aaron Francis

00:08:20 – 00:08:25

We put her on our car insurance, our cell phone plan, all of that. So it's kinda like

00:08:25 – 00:08:27

It's like It's kinda like family member.

Aaron Francis

00:08:27 – 00:08:37

Yeah. I was gonna say it's kinda like a niece or nephew or, like, a sibling that's maybe, you know, ten years younger than you. And you're like, you're the grown up and they're the kid. And they're like, hey. Why don't you come live with me for a little bit?

Aaron Francis

00:08:37 – 00:08:52

So ours is, she's German. She is 25. And she has been an au pair to twins before, once in Boston. And so when we when we saw her like, we went through an agency. When we saw that, we were like, oh, we gotta have her.

Aaron Francis

00:08:52 – 00:09:20

Yeah. And so her primary responsibility is to, like, take the big kids to school and back home and, like, help with set up like, make their dinners and their lunches and stuff like that. Very strict working hours, and so it's, like, forty hours a week max, and then she doesn't work on weekends. And so, just just massively helpful because you can't like, I'm at work all day, you know, now that now that I'm back. Yeah.

Aaron Francis

00:09:20 – 00:09:36

I'm at work all day, and my wife can't get four four helpless children into She's not an Octomom. No. She's like, when you let's say you even make it to the target. Like, that is a miracle in in and of itself. Then what do you do?

Aaron Francis

00:09:36 – 00:09:46

You can't get them all out of the car. Like, it's a lot easier when you're putting them in the car at home and everything is, like, pretty low key and safe. And then you're in a parking lot with four kids under three. Why are you supposed to do anything? So

00:09:46 – 00:09:48

Or when you have to put the cart back.

Aaron Francis

00:09:48 – 00:09:50

Like Yes. Exactly. Like, there's just

00:09:50 – 00:09:51

there's no

Aaron Francis

00:09:51 – 00:09:54

chance right. There's no chance anything's gonna happen. Yeah.

00:09:54 – 00:09:59

Yeah. Do you put the kids all in the car? Like, I don't know. Quite it. I know.

Aaron Francis

00:10:00 – 00:10:15

So having that au pair has been incredibly helpful. That's great. Yeah. So, yeah, we're, like, we're I think we're out of one of the hardest parts, which is, you know, the the the sleepless nights. So everybody sleeps through the night now, which is massively helpful.

Aaron Francis

00:10:15 – 00:10:28

Even the au pair? Even the au pair, especially the au pair. Whenever she's off, she does whatever she wants. She'll some so sometimes she'll be like, you know, she'll come down on a Saturday morning at, like, eleven. And I'm like, hey.

Aaron Francis

00:10:28 – 00:10:35

How's it going, Jasmine? She's like, good. I just woke up. And I'm like, that sounds great for you. I'm so happy for you.

00:10:36 – 00:10:39

What a lie. I know. Must be nice.

Aaron Francis

00:10:39 – 00:10:59

And she laughs. And she's like, it is pretty nice, actually. So, So, yeah, everybody sleeps through the night. And, you know, the big kids are in, like, school for a few days a week. And so things are starting to settle down, but, just an incredibly challenging, several years here.

Aaron Francis

00:10:59 – 00:11:22

And then, of course, I got laid off in March, and like we talked about, I am the sole breadwinner for the family. I think my wife probably definitely works harder than I do, but she, you know, is working at home, like caring for our family. And so I'm here trying to make money and I got laid off and I got a million kids and an au pair and a wife and yeah. It was it was a very stressful time.

00:11:22 – 00:11:26

Her crown in heaven is gonna be stuck. Man. Yeah.

Aaron Francis

00:11:27 – 00:11:29

Yeah. It sure is.

00:11:29 – 00:12:01

Yeah. It's awesome when sometimes we we guess we don't realize how much like, what like, how much work it is to care for the home Mhmm. Or the the provider, like, when we're out. And, you know, in our culture, right, there's, like, this rise on, like like, feminism and diminishing the value of men and stuff like that. And it's difficult, right, to navigate that because it can seep in the home, even in Christian homes, which is really interesting.

00:12:02 – 00:12:30

And, yeah, it's it's really good that God has blessed you guys with such a sweet tender love that I I can I can tell by which how you're speaking about this experience and that he provided a way out? Right? Mhmm. So you so you're able to still provide hustle and do the grind and go through this new chapter in your life of being your own boss. So how is that gone?

00:12:30 – 00:12:43

It's a perfect segue. How how's that going? Is this something you've been wanting to do for a long time? Because I know you got this studio space Mhmm. Right almost to the tail end.

00:12:43 – 00:12:50

And then next thing you know, I open up Twitter and it's like, oh, everybody's going. Yep. I'm like, what?

Aaron Francis

00:12:50 – 00:13:07

I know. Like Yeah. So I, I was working at a database company as a developer educator. So I was doing lots of, like, writing and making videos and that kind of stuff. And, you know, I had just at that point, I think the new twins had come.

Aaron Francis

00:13:07 – 00:13:17

They were a couple months old. I was about to go back to work full time, and I realized, like, I can't work. Like, our house doesn't it's not big enough for me to have a full on option.

00:13:17 – 00:13:18

You had

Aaron Francis

00:13:18 – 00:13:18

a bed

00:13:18 – 00:13:19

in it back. Right?

Aaron Francis

00:13:19 – 00:13:21

Yeah. That was an old house before we

00:13:21 – 00:13:22

Oh, okay.

Aaron Francis

00:13:22 – 00:13:28

When we found out we were having the second set of twins, we sold that house immediately because that was a two two, and we were like,

00:13:28 – 00:13:33

well That was like an in between process. So that makes sense why you have the the studio now.

Aaron Francis

00:13:33 – 00:13:46

Okay. Yeah. So we we sold we sold that house, and then we rented a house for a while. Then the new twins came, and then we, like, we found a house that we liked and we bought it. But it's just not it's not big enough to have a shed in the backyard.

Aaron Francis

00:13:46 – 00:14:01

It's not big enough to have, like, a dedicated room where I can make videos. Yeah. And there's just so many people now. And so, I rented where I'm sitting now, which is a one bedroom apartment, like, three minutes away from, our house. And

00:14:02 – 00:14:02

That's

Aaron Francis

00:14:02 – 00:14:23

Yeah. So my commute is vanishingly small. This I built out this whole backdrop and everything. And so, I rented this with the, dreams and hopes that this was going to be my place where I, you know, did my full time w two job. And it like, I was coming back from paternity.

Aaron Francis

00:14:24 – 00:14:46

I was I was scheduled to come back on a Friday, and I got laid off on a Wednesday. And so, like, I was, like, two days or, you know, one or two days from starting back at work, and I got a call that was like, hey. You and the whole sales and marketing orgs, you're all fired, like, half the company. And I was like, well, why did you tell me to rent this studio then? That kinda made me mad.

00:14:47 – 00:14:50

Oh, and you so so you did get approval for, like, for

Aaron Francis

00:14:50 – 00:14:56

Oh, yeah. This they were paying for it. Yeah. Yeah. So I I felt a little bit bamboozled.

Aaron Francis

00:14:56 – 00:15:15

Yeah. Yeah. And so that was a little bit frustrating and, of course, just being blindsided by getting laid off, you know, all of it. And so the the problem was I was doing my job fantastically. It just turned out that my job was serving a purpose that didn't serve the company.

Aaron Francis

00:15:15 – 00:15:41

And so it was like, well, we're changing course, and you're gone. And I was like, I can't really blame you, but boy, do I feel frustrated. And so, you know, that week, so I got laid off on a Wednesday. I kinda just chilled for the rest of that week trying to, like, process. And then starting on Monday following, the layoff, I I just took every call that you know, I tweeted about it on the day of.

Aaron Francis

00:15:41 – 00:15:42

It was like, hey. I got laid off.

00:15:42 – 00:15:43

Oh, man.

Aaron Francis

00:15:43 – 00:16:00

And then I got a bunch inbound of, like, hey. We should talk. And so the following week, I just took as many calls as I possibly could. And there were lots of really great options, but none of them, like, none of them seemed interesting. It just seems like, hey.

Aaron Francis

00:16:00 – 00:16:31

Come do the same thing that you just did for that company, but come do it for us. And I felt kinda like, I mean, I could, but that sounds like I don't wanna just go play the hits again. And so at that point, I you know, me and another guy that got laid off started talking about what if we just kinda went out and did this on our own. And so that's what's happened. So me and my friend, Steve, started a company at that time called TryHard Studios, and we make, we make videos for developers.

Aaron Francis

00:16:31 – 00:16:58

And so, we do a combination of, like we've done some several, you know, YouTube videos on my own channel, sponsored videos over there, and then the other side is courses. And so we've done now a course on a database called SQLite and a data base called Postgres. And we have a couple of other things planned. But, yeah, that's basically how how the company works, and it's been it's been working great. It's been a just a massive amount of work.

Aaron Francis

00:16:59 – 00:17:16

But now that Postgres is released, I think we have a little bit of a chance to kinda take our foot off the gas just a little bit and figure out, like, what do we, you know, what do we wanna be doing long term? So I'm just very grateful that it has worked at all, because that was not definitely not guaranteed.

00:17:16 – 00:17:24

Yeah. Praise god. Yeah. I it's wow. I'm trying to think of questions because, like, I I just can't imagine.

00:17:24 – 00:17:51

Like Yeah. Being put in a in a predicament, it's like I don't have a similar experience, but I do remember when I was working as a video creator for a WordPress company. Mhmm. And then next thing you know, you know, there's a, hey, you can buy whatever tech gear you need. So I bought a super ultra wide so that way I can, like, be able to record and then edit all in a much better ergonomic way.

00:17:52 – 00:17:56

And then next thing you know, I was left with the payments. Mhmm.

Aaron Francis

00:17:57 – 00:17:57

Brutal.

00:17:57 – 00:18:14

Oof. Because like there's like, yeah. If if you want put on payments and then and then like, well, do you just put your invoices, right, like, where you just put that, other that into the the pay. So that way we can give it to you and then you pay it. Man.

00:18:15 – 00:18:21

So I was like, man. But I paid it off, like, two weeks ago. So we're good. Like, couple years ago.

Aaron Francis

00:18:21 – 00:18:22

I can't believe they did that to you.

00:18:22 – 00:18:43

That's So so I think you have rent. So it's kinda like a little bit that's a little daunting. I I can't imagine that. And I guess, like, from there, it's like, how how did you navigate that? Like, were when you were sitting down and chilling because Brian Morrison, mutual friend of ours Mhmm.

00:18:44 – 00:19:05

He also worked at said database company. Mhmm. And his story was incredible. God did an incredible job there as well. But yours is is is unique in of itself because there's these adversities in in place, for God's, like, testimony to Mhmm.

00:19:05 – 00:19:17

To come to shine. And then having to do your own business, like, two set no four sets of stone. Two sets of stone. And how how did you navigate that? Like, what's the first thing that you do?

00:19:17 – 00:19:33

Did you did you pray? Did you count you seek counsel from your elders at church? Did you feel moved by the Lord to, like, let's just start this, get Steve onto onto this operation? Yeah. How'd that go about?

Aaron Francis

00:19:34 – 00:20:02

I mean, the absolute first thing I did when I hung up on my boss after the conversation, I didn't hang up on her. But after I, finished talking with my former boss was I called my wife, because I was up here like like an idiot trying to build a studio and I for a company that just laid me off. And so I was up here. She was at home, and I called her. And she was, of course, extremely supportive and was just was like, it'll be fine.

Aaron Francis

00:20:02 – 00:20:03

You'll figure it out.

00:20:03 – 00:20:04

Mind. Well

Aaron Francis

00:20:04 – 00:20:11

Yeah. It it'll it'll be totally fine. I have complete faith in you. You'll figure it out. And that's just like, oh, wow.

Aaron Francis

00:20:11 – 00:20:14

Okay. Well, that makes one of us. That's good. Great. We can do this.

Aaron Francis

00:20:15 – 00:20:33

So I called her, and then I, you know, I took I took like I said, I took that whole the rest of that week. So, I had already been planning on going to see Dune two in theaters that day. Mhmm. Because I was like, paternity leave's almost over. I should do something fun.

Aaron Francis

00:20:33 – 00:20:34

Because I've just been, like,

00:20:34 – 00:20:34

you

Aaron Francis

00:20:34 – 00:21:03

know, staying up all night and then coming up here and building all day. And, so I went and saw Dune and just kinda, like, let it wash over me. And then Great movie. Great movie. And then, after that, it was interesting kinda how it how it worked because I did talk to I have a lot of, very close friends here, that are that I've I've known for, you know, almost two decades at this point.

Aaron Francis

00:21:03 – 00:21:35

And so I spent a lot of time talking to them, a lot of time in prayer, a lot of time talking to my wife, and it just became, like, it it just became abundantly clear that the the correct choice was the obvious choice, and that was to go solo. I had a few interviews, one with Glauber, who you mentioned earlier. I had a few interviews, where the people interviewing me were like, hey, Glauber said this.

00:21:35 – 00:21:36

He was

Aaron Francis

00:21:36 – 00:21:58

like, before we start, I actually don't have a job for you. And I was like, okay, this is a weird interview. And he was like, the thing is I can't afford you, but you should go out you should go out on your own, and we'll be your first client. And I had, I think, two or three companies say, you should go out on your own. We'll be your first client.

Aaron Francis

00:21:58 – 00:22:48

And that was just like a a turn of events I didn't expect that became it it just seemed very clear and very obvious to me that, like, this is an opportunity that I've never had, and I don't think most people ever really have. And, you know, Steve and I actually took some interviews together because people people were like, hey, we want the Steve and Aaron combo. And so it just became more and more clear that, the two of us together had some sort of magic that people wanted and that people were willing to pay for. And so that was a great kindness to me that it became very obvious. And it wasn't it wasn't like, oh, shoot.

Aaron Francis

00:22:48 – 00:22:53

I wonder. What am I gonna do? It's $50.50. It was like, no. This is very clear.

Aaron Francis

00:22:54 – 00:23:02

And if you fail, that's fine. You go back to one of these companies, and let's say half of them are still like, yeah, we'll hire you.

00:23:02 – 00:23:03

Mhmm. Well,

Aaron Francis

00:23:03 – 00:23:40

that's still a lot of companies. That was still probably, you know, 20 companies if you cut the interviews in half. And so it seems like, it seems like a no brainer after, that week ended. So about, I would say, maybe ten days after I got laid off, it was, like, a % clear we're gonna do this on our own. Now the thing we thought we were gonna do on our own, like, the shape of the business has changed quite a bit, but what hasn't changed is that it seems like we're being, pulled forward, rather than just, like, having to push a boulder up a hill.

Aaron Francis

00:23:40 – 00:23:49

It feels like we are just surfing a wave, and we're just doing our best to keep up with it, which is, again, a new and novel feeling for me.

00:23:49 – 00:23:56

Yeah. That's that's awesome. And is Steve a believer as well or He's not. Oh, okay. That that's interesting.

00:23:56 – 00:24:13

Right? Like Yeah. How how we how we even get to, like, work with others, right, that are not of the faith, but our faith, the one who has faith in Christ, God is sovereign. Mhmm. And he's providential in those areas.

00:24:13 – 00:24:26

So it's it's super awesome that the Lord blesses you, but you also he he blesses those that are gonna be a part of your team. Yeah. Totally. That's like super awesome. I when I got laid off, I found this out.

00:24:26 – 00:24:50

It's the craziest thing. I work now and people find this out already before the podcast comes out. I've been waiting a bit to like announce it but I got it off July 26 a day about a day or two before I had to go travel to that conference up in Wisconsin, with my family. It was gonna be a family vacation Oh, wow. Water park because it's at a Kalahari resort.

00:24:51 – 00:25:09

Yeah. And like they were covered because of being a speaker etcetera etcetera. And we're we drove up there because traveling through plane. We've already done that with the kids and I thought it would be fun just to drive since like eight hours. And yeah.

00:25:10 – 00:25:27

I prayed exactly at the same time as they were reading the termination letter to me. And I had peace. I just had peace. I asked the Lord and my prayers, like, so what about that conference? He said go.

00:25:28 – 00:25:51

Go. And then when I got home, I literally was gonna sit down here in this office. This is inside the home church which used to be a mobile home, where we lived in all compact. Her parents, her her siblings, and then me, my wife, and our first born. And then when I got out, I got a house and then you know how that story goes, kinda.

00:25:51 – 00:26:08

Mhmm. You start to expand. And I did not do any I was gonna do like, I start setting everything up for, like, the Code Fellowship podcast and do some other things. I had no energy to do that. Mhmm.

00:26:08 – 00:26:34

I was just in in focusing on Jesus, during the whole time. And then when I got home, my wife, she already had the day off and she was, like, taking care of the kids, folding their clothes. And I talked to her and I said I told her what happened in more detail and then I told her the Lord confirmed to go to that conference. She's like, actually, I was gonna ask you about that. Are we going still?

00:26:34 – 00:27:03

I was like, yeah. The Lord said to go, so we're gone. And then she's like, okay. And then some things aligned during that time to be able to to financially sustain us while we're traveling. And on that Friday, which is a Friday, I had two people tell ask me, is there any way that you can just, like, talk to companies, tell them what to do and then or just develop for them and then get paid a chunk of money?

00:27:04 – 00:27:18

And and when I say a chunk of money, like, you know, several thousand dollars. Right? So, Hispanics have a certain metric. I'm like, what chunk of money means? And then, so then I was like, yeah.

00:27:18 – 00:27:28

He's like, yeah. It's called consulting and development. And he was like, yeah. Why don't you just do that? Like, I do, like that was my father-in-law who's also my pastor.

00:27:28 – 00:27:36

And he's like, yeah. This is not like I do it, like, mechanic work. Right? And then just make money on the side. And if you have the all the free time now.

00:27:37 – 00:27:47

So I'm like, okay. And then somebody else, like, hey. I would like to join you, like, if you wanna start a business, blah blah, etcetera. But I'm not ready for that. Like, I have kids, you know, I would like to be as profitable as possible.

00:27:48 – 00:28:04

Not that I wanna be selfish, but, like, I was just already like, I wasn't, like, really thinking of, like, someone else yet. And, thinking of, like, someone else yet. And then my then someone else that same day, same thing. Two more people. My wife was like, what are you waiting for?

00:28:04 – 00:28:10

Like, seven people to tell you? Right? Because, you know, that's God's perfect number, but I was like, what are you waiting? Mhmm. I was like, maybe.

00:28:10 – 00:28:24

And then two more people at, that conference said the same thing. Same words that was written down and asked and and said, I was like, okay. I'm doing this. Boom. And then I started.

00:28:25 – 00:28:32

Redemptive Software, LLC was created. I started putting everything together and praise God. I have, like, four clients today.

Aaron Francis

00:28:32 – 00:28:33

It's amazing.

00:28:33 – 00:28:56

And Now I have a full time job during the day for a nonprofit organization as of, October 1 where we're, building, software for pregnancy centers that Oh, wow. Combat abortion and stuff like that. So, it's pretty cool and it's it's technically a junior role on paper. Mhmm. But, the work that we're doing is not junior Yeah.

00:28:56 – 00:29:22

At all. And it's like a team of two. So we're doing like they had contractors, that they're they're working with but they wanna have more of an internal team. So then that's where we're at right now. So there's, like, my boss, I found out that he got laid off a month prior, to getting into the role that he's in today, and he was referred to that for that role.

00:29:22 – 00:30:02

And then the same month he started, which was in July, I got laid off the twenty sixth. And then I was referred to him. I did the interview process and everything, and then they gave me an offer. I found out, like, about two weeks ago, it would be two weeks ago now, when we went to I went to meet up the team in person in Columbus, Ohio, and the vice president was saying that they were praying for the right engineers to join their team. So God answered their prayers, but also God did something in my heart with my relationship with my children at the same time.

00:30:02 – 00:30:32

And I dove deep into, like, this whole study on the fruits of the spirit, and how to how I should be embodying that as a believer, not only in my work but also with my family. Because the Lord is speaking to me through others like, what good is it if your ministry is flourishing outside the home but is failing inside of your home? Totally. And so I was like, man, like, this is this is intense.

Aaron Francis

00:30:33 – 00:30:33

Yeah. Seriously.

00:30:34 – 00:30:44

God works in mysterious ways. Mhmm. In mysterious ways. So how's it going for you now? You have two courses that are out by the time of this recording.

00:30:44 – 00:30:59

That's why this this, podcast episode got delayed because you're you were deep into the second one with Postgres. How's it how's it going now? Like, do you I know you said you're riding the wave, so it seems like there's some momentum Mhmm. That's happening?

Aaron Francis

00:30:59 – 00:31:06

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So it's going I mean, it's going fantastic. The courses have done well so far.

Aaron Francis

00:31:06 – 00:31:53

They've been, they've been, just a massive amount of work, which I think is fine. We just compressed it into a pretty short timeline, for for a few reasons, but primarily because, we didn't have, like, a base of of money. Like, as as a family, we had a base of savings, and Steve had some savings. But as a company, it was like, we don't have any income whatsoever. And so we hustled pretty hard in a in a relatively unsustainable way to get SQLite and Postgres out the door within I think SQLite was released in July, and Postgres was released, you know, a few weeks ago and here in October.

Aaron Francis

00:31:53 – 00:32:33

And so just an incredibly fast turnaround, which, was was very taxing, but now we're at a spot where I think we we've bought ourselves a little bit of runway. And so, the two launches went well, and then they continue to sell pretty well, enough so that we can kinda, like, take a step back and figure out, alright. What's the shape of the business going to be, and how are we gonna do this long term? And, like, what are we like, I don't wanna just do courses forever. I think I'm a good teacher.

Aaron Francis

00:32:33 – 00:32:59

I enjoy it. I think it's very fulfilling. But there are other things that I want to do, and having, you know, having a business allows us to explore some of those opportunities. And so, we're gonna try we're gonna try some wild things. I mean, I'm gonna, I think, November and December, I'm gonna work on, is still secret, but I'm gonna work on a physical product.

Aaron Francis

00:32:59 – 00:32:59

And so

00:32:59 – 00:32:59

Nice.

Aaron Francis

00:32:59 – 00:33:28

There's gonna be a whole storyline of, like, you know, try hard studios builds builds and ships a physical product. And it's like that's the kind of that's the kind of freedom that having these courses out the door allows us to to have. And, like, we'll see if we'll see if that works. If nothing else, it'll be interesting to watch. And that's, like, that's a pretty, weirdly, that's, like, a pretty important metric in our business is are we doing interesting things?

Aaron Francis

00:33:28 – 00:33:48

Because if we are, then we get more attention. And that attention is what is, like, the top of the funnel for all of the things that we sell, which is right now just these database courses. But hopefully, in the future, there's a lot of interesting and varied things. And so, it's been going it's been going very well. It's been a ton of work.

Aaron Francis

00:33:49 – 00:34:26

And in the next I think it's, like, maybe two or three weeks from now, I'm gonna go up to Boise where my partner Steve is, and we're gonna sit down and try to, like, figure out, alright. What do we want, you know, the next six months, a year to look like, and how are we going to make this more sustainable? Because we can't live, you know, we can't live launch to launch, and, also, we can't do two, three, four courses in a year, because that's just really, really difficult for me to actually, like, pull off. And so we're still figuring it out a little bit, but I think we're starting to narrow in on what is, gonna be the business kinda long term.

00:34:27 – 00:34:33

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. So see, I I I'm excited to hear what the product's gonna be. Mhmm.

00:34:33 – 00:34:42

Like, I'm trying to, what is it? Picture it in my mind. What it would be? What's an Aaron, Francis, and Steve product? I was thinking of

Aaron Francis

00:34:42 – 00:34:46

Something that I can make, which narrows it down a lot.

00:34:46 – 00:34:51

Like a like a false wall, maybe, you know, like, collapsible wall Yeah. For video purposes. Right? Not gonna be a

Aaron Francis

00:34:51 – 00:34:53

lot of purchases, but it's very high ticket. Yeah.

00:34:53 – 00:35:02

Yeah. It's very high ticket. You You could be at NAB next year. Be like, hey, like, I have this collapsible background. Yep.

Aaron Francis

00:35:03 – 00:35:21

We are actually we are actually getting, so I'm in an apartment right now. We're getting a new space at the beginning of next year. So I think the lease will start January 1, and it's a, it's like a little flex industrial space. And so, I think there's, like, 750 square feet of warehouse and 250 square

00:35:21 – 00:35:21

feet of office. Kind of

Aaron Francis

00:35:21 – 00:35:22

similar to Jason's,

00:35:23 – 00:35:24

Yeah. Setup.

Aaron Francis

00:35:24 – 00:35:31

Right? Yeah. Exactly. A little I think his is I actually saw him this past week. I think his is maybe 2,000 square feet.

Aaron Francis

00:35:31 – 00:35:38

And the one we're getting is a total of a thousand square feet, which is better, like, good for just me because you're a student in Boise.

00:35:39 – 00:35:42

You made a lot. I don't I know. Full little space.

Aaron Francis

00:35:42 – 00:36:12

Turned an apartment bedroom into quite a a lot here. So it'll be nice, you know, to expand and see what we can do over there. But, yeah, it's it's, it is like, the wave that I was talking about was it seems like, it seems like people enjoy following the shenanigans that I'm up to. And so that's the kind of thing we're, like, trying to push the boundaries of what is a shenanigan. And so far, it's been, like, let's, you know, let's build out an apartment studio.

Aaron Francis

00:36:12 – 00:36:20

Let's do some courses. And I think we can broaden that even further to just, like, be interesting online as kinda, like, a a business strategy.

00:36:21 – 00:36:32

Yeah. Yeah. And and like you said, you're a very public figure. You're in in a public space and that's I'm sure it's also very hard to balance. Mhmm.

00:36:34 – 00:36:55

And a lot of people always ask me, alright, Josh, like or JB, like, how do you balance all this? Like, especially, like, when you need time to be in the word to refresh yourself, with God. Like, where do you put God first in all of this? And that's my question to you. So how do you how do you balance that with your devotional time with the Lord?

00:36:55 – 00:37:00

Do you like wake up extra early? Or do you wake up at eleven in the morning like you're

Aaron Francis

00:37:01 – 00:37:13

No. Unfortunately unfortunately, I have, I'm full time twenty four seven parents. No. That's been that's been very tough. That's that's been very tough for us.

Aaron Francis

00:37:13 – 00:37:38

I mean, for or for for me, I I think, for our family, it's been it's been pretty tough as well. I mean, we we have a pretty good rhythm of church every Sunday, bible study every Wednesday. Okay. And then we have a a weekly standing phone call with, a couple of friends where we do a little bit of, like, a little bit of accountability, a little bit of encouragement, that sort of thing. Thing.

Aaron Francis

00:37:38 – 00:38:04

Yeah. Exactly. And so there's there are good there are good, external structures right now that have really kind of been carrying us through this portion of, like, difficulty. And so very grateful for such, you know, a tight knit community here, in in Dallas. And I guess the phone calls with some people that don't live here anymore, but used to.

Aaron Francis

00:38:04 – 00:38:29

And so we've been doing that. I mean, I think we've been doing that phone call for three or four or five years now every Friday morning, and it's just it's great. It's, like, incredibly, fulfilling. And then, like, individual quiet time devotional time, I do get up here to the studio relatively early. And now that I'm, you know, now that I'm independent, I don't have a boss.

Aaron Francis

00:38:29 – 00:39:10

It's like, you gotta be the stand up at nine and then account for every minute of your day. But even even with that, I still feel a massive amount of pressure to get stuff done. And so that has been, like, that's been very difficult for me to, like, decide to set aside the time to read and pray and do that on a on a daily basis. And that is, like, that's that's a great struggle. Since since our first set of twins came, that has been, that's been very difficult for me, and something that I'm continuing continuously not only, like, trying to work towards, but asking God to draw me towards.

Aaron Francis

00:39:10 – 00:39:21

Because it's like, there are just days I don't wanna do it, and I wish that was different. And so that is that that's a great that's a great battle for me right now.

00:39:21 – 00:39:41

Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely relate to what you're saying, with the whole pressure thing because then, like, you're you're working for yourself. Mhmm. Like, you have to have time to build processes and do a set of time for like administrative things and then actually do the work that's actually gonna make you the money.

00:39:43 – 00:40:11

And I used to do this in my, the last couple roles is even when I had full time employment, I felt the conviction that I needed to set time for God before I would even touch any code for the day Mhmm. Of any kind or do any type of work. And sometimes it ends up being like three hours. Sometimes it ends up being two hours. But I always like go with the mindset of like an hour.

00:40:12 – 00:40:34

Take time to pray for a minute, meditate on the word, journal, and just like read and if I don't get it done like at five in the morning. I've been trying to do it better at like five in the morning, get it started. When I'm like driving, you have a three minute drive. You could probably walk to your studio. Mhmm.

00:40:34 – 00:40:58

But I I have like a ten, fifteen minute drive. I listen to through the word podcast which is like a bible study like ten minutes per episode type of thing. But there's times I'm just like talking to God while I'm driving, like, praying for certain people. And then next thing you know, I listen to this podcast for the rest of the way. And then I wanna read a little bit more for myself as well.

00:40:59 – 00:41:17

And then from there, I feel ready and fulfilled. Even when I'm like, I take a break and then I start cooking in the kitchen, lunch, or breakfast, like, there is the time where I'm with God as well. Alright. Just like and more, you know, personal time where I'm not in front of my computer doing things. Right?

00:41:17 – 00:41:40

Mhmm. So my encouragement to you is like pocket sized devotions, right, with the Lord. I mean, that's that's kinda like what has been working for me and then you're gonna see that you're gonna shift to a sense of let me devote thirty minutes. Instead of pocket sizes, right, let me devote thirty minutes. Let me get started with thirty minutes at least.

00:41:41 – 00:41:55

And then like because I think about I could be thirty minutes on my phone scrolling doing nothing. Right? Like, my my brain, like, I like to be on YouTube on my phone even though I'm on my computer. Or I can be on YouTube. Right?

00:41:55 – 00:42:16

Just like watching a video or whatever when I can spend like this thirty minutes re recharge spiritually and then remain focused. Mhmm. So I have some mental health issues. I have things that I need to, I need to, upkeep so that way I can perform well and that's how it has helped me. So Mhmm.

00:42:17 – 00:42:30

I just encourage you find that time and hopefully it's before like you said, try to do it before you start doing any work because then the time will escape. I've done it to, just leave it for like before I leave. No. No chance. No chance.

Aaron Francis

00:42:30 – 00:42:32

No chance. Because It's never gonna happen.

00:42:33 – 00:42:41

Don't doesn't happen to you as a husband's like, okay. Honey, I'll be right there soon. Right? And then you're like, soon end up being, like, a whole hour. Oh, yeah.

00:42:41 – 00:42:43

A whole hour later.

Aaron Francis

00:42:44 – 00:42:44

No. No chance.

00:42:44 – 00:43:03

Yeah. You gotta put God first. Right? Like, scripture says seek the kingdom of God first and all his righteousness and all these things will be added. So I always take that as a principle to, like, put him first as much as I can, or sprinkle in that, pocket sized devotion with him.

00:43:03 – 00:43:12

Mhmm. But yeah. I I got nothing else to say there. I it's it's it's a it's I can make a course about it. Right?

00:43:12 – 00:43:13

Yeah.

Aaron Francis

00:43:13 – 00:43:14

It's tough, man.

00:43:14 – 00:43:16

Yeah. It is. Yeah. Really tough. Yeah.

Aaron Francis

00:43:16 – 00:43:17

Yeah. That's a good good encouragement.

00:43:18 – 00:43:29

Yeah. You're welcome, brother. And it's your story is encouraging. It's inspiring, even though I have three kids, But they do feel like four twins. It does it it gets crazy.

00:43:30 – 00:43:43

Two boys, one girl. The boys are obviously the ones that make it feel a little bit chaotic. But it's it's refreshing to see, you know, that that there's vulnerabilities. Right? Like, we're not superhumans.

00:43:44 – 00:44:02

Right? And then there's the the time and place where we have to depend on our lord and savior Jesus Christ to to be the flowing river of water that never runs out and give us the strength that we need throughout the day. Like, I know what those sleepless nights are like as well. Right? Like, I know every parent feels it.

00:44:02 – 00:44:24

But then when you start to think about, like, your position, we start putting yourself in our in your shoes, you're like, wow. Like, the Lord is really preparing you and your wife for something huge. Mhmm. Like, a story that will inspire more people. And I I just praise God for your for your testimony and, the, the obstacle.

00:44:25 – 00:44:25

Yeah.

Aaron Francis

00:44:26 – 00:44:29

Well, thank you. That's encouragement. I appreciate that.

00:44:29 – 00:44:47

Yeah. You're welcome. Let's get to the end of the podcast. I know that you probably have a lot of things to do and go surfing on this wave of things. But we get to the end of the podcast here, and it's kinda like the sick and picks on other, podcasts, like, within the dead web space.

00:44:48 – 00:44:56

We call it the passing of the bread. K. Think about, like, the holy communion, the last supper already. K. Passing of bread, but there's some bread crumbs I leave behind.

Aaron Francis

00:44:56 – 00:44:56

You know,

00:44:56 – 00:45:22

those bread crumbs are really good. They always have, like, good nuggets. Mhmm. It could be a shameless plug, a resource that maybe, you've been reading on, whether it's, like, bible based or just within a text based, maybe it's a movie or song that you've been listening to while working, whatever it is, this is your time to shine. Give us some bread crumbs, and then I will end the episode here.

Aaron Francis

00:45:23 – 00:45:32

Okay. Let's think. I don't know if it I don't know if I necessarily have a pick like that.

00:45:32 – 00:45:36

A bread crumb. Let's do it for branding purposes. I don't wanna use it. I was kidding. Yeah.

00:45:36 – 00:45:37

Let's do

Aaron Francis

00:45:37 – 00:46:08

a bread crumb. Okay. So here's here's what I will say. I think, to I think to the people that exist online, which is many of us, there's this, like I feel like there's this common notion or, like, something that's in the water where everything is everything is cloaked in irony or cynicism or, like, it's cool to be laissez faire. It's cool to not care about things.

Aaron Francis

00:46:10 – 00:46:46

And, like, for goodness sakes, we named our company TryHard Studios. I think there is, like, a nobility and a duty, especially as believers, but regardless of of that for all people. But as believers, I think there is a, a duty to do our best work as unto the Lord. And I think, being seen as someone who cares and who puts in, effort and who tries hard at things even if it seems like, like, you see a lot of this nowadays. Like, oh, the algorithm has changed.

Aaron Francis

00:46:46 – 00:47:14

And what's the point of even of even, like, putting stuff out there? And it's like the point the point of of doing things is it is a joy and a delight to create like our like our God in heaven has created. And it is our responsibility as believers, and I think our responsibility as creation, to mimic God in that way and to do good work. I mean, for us, you and I, we believe that we work as an unto the Lord. Yes.

Aaron Francis

00:47:14 – 00:47:49

But I think for all people, there's pride in doing things well. And there's pride in, like, doing things well even if it doesn't, like, pay off. Like, there's something about some of my favorite verses are, one is internal focused and that's, I have no idea what the reference is, but it's lead a quiet life and work with your hands. And there's just, like, a quiet nobility to doing things well. And the other one of my favorite verses is, as much as it is in your control, live at peace with all people.

Aaron Francis

00:47:49 – 00:48:24

And I think for for a, for a generation slash a community that lives online, those two verses could be internalized a lot better. As much as it's in your control, live at peace with all people, is that how you interact on Twitter? Because if it isn't, that should be, like, that should be a little bit of, encouragement slash a rebuke. Like, why are you doing not you personally, but why are you, dear listener, doing rage bait on Twitter? Like, you as much as it is possible, live at peace with all people.

Aaron Francis

00:48:24 – 00:48:28

And that may mean muting or blocking or ignoring people. That

00:48:28 – 00:48:33

is still engaging in the conversation. Yeah. Yes. Which takes a lot of self control.

Aaron Francis

00:48:33 – 00:48:51

It takes a ton of self control. And so my my sick pick, sorry, breadcrumb, is, is behave behave in such a way that, like, you can stand you can stand before God's throne and say, yes, you can read all my tweets.

00:48:51 – 00:48:52

Like Amen.

Aaron Francis

00:48:52 – 00:49:20

Yes, you can you can look at all of the work that I did, and I am proud of of the level of effort and quality that I put into this work because I was I was working as if it was unto you. Please investigate it. Look at it. And I think a lot of people, these days or maybe always, but these days that we live in are looking for, the quick hack, the the easy way out, the algorithmic boost that can give them something without

00:49:20 – 00:49:24

Right. Their their Viratally, whatever the word is.

Aaron Francis

00:49:24 – 00:49:48

Exactly. A viral pin. And so that's that's my encouragement to the people is, like, it is okay to try really hard even if you end up failing because the your duty your duty ends when you fulfill your, when you fulfill your efforts and you you do the work. And if it if it goes great, it goes great. If not, you you did your responsibility.

Aaron Francis

00:49:48 – 00:49:52

And so that's my that's my, breadcrumb for the people.

00:49:53 – 00:50:14

That was really, really good. That was really good. Thanks. I think that's very much needed to be said and how I feel a lot about, like, what I see on the Internet. It doesn't matter what platform it is, because there is a lot of, like, like you said cynicism and facades.

00:50:14 – 00:50:24

I see a lot of facades. Right? Especially within the Christian circle. You know, you wanna live a genuine life as much as possible. Mhmm.

00:50:24 – 00:50:54

And, you know, you're gonna make mistakes. Like, I I we had one of the guys within our community who lives in in my town and it was a time where he made a mistake and said something and he was engaging in a post but wasn't he didn't engage in a very Christ like manner. Mhmm. And the holy spirit convicted him of it and then he spoke to me about it. And then I also helped him, you know, process that conviction and it helped him.

00:50:55 – 00:51:14

There's a lot of it, you know, we ends up in those dual personality type of things nowadays in the Internet. And and I just I lived that life when I was a teenager, and I wouldn't wanna live that life ever. It's not sustainable. It's not. Just be yourself, be helpful, and like you said, be peaceable with everything.

00:51:15 – 00:51:25

Even if you even if it's another Christian who has different theology than you. Totally. Have peace. Yep. Grace, love because love conquers all things.

00:51:25 – 00:51:37

That's love conquers all things. That's such an awesome breadcrumb. I I can't say anything else. I won't I won't top it. But if you do want to, shamelessly plug yourself, you can as well.

00:51:38 – 00:51:46

Where can people find you, connect with you Yeah. And, you know, we can boost yourselves up. Yeah. That'd be great. That'd be great.

00:51:46 – 00:51:48

Gotta pay for it. I spend

Aaron Francis

00:51:48 – 00:52:17

I spend all my time on Twitter at Aaron d Francis, d as in Daniel, Aaron d Francis. And then you can find, like, all of my honestly, you can find all my links and stuff in my Twitter bio, or you can go to ErinFrancis.com, and find the stuff there. And so there, you'll find links to my YouTube channel, SQLite course, Postgres course. We also have a screencasting course on how to, like, make videos and stuff. Here's really good.

Aaron Francis

00:52:17 – 00:52:23

And lots of articles and stuff like that. So aaronfrancis.com is kinda the repository for all of that information.

00:52:23 – 00:52:44

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the episode. I'm really excited, for people to to listen to this one. And, yeah, it's been it's just it was a simple conversation, I would say. Usually some really strong ones, but I love this sometimes when it's simple, it could be like I'm fanboying too as well.

00:52:44 – 00:52:55

Just like I did with James. Like, so it's it's great to meet some people that I've looked up to, over the years, and look forward to continue the fellowship. Well, guys

Aaron Francis

00:52:56 – 00:53:01

Thank you. Thank you for doing this podcast, and thank you for having me on. It's been it's been a joy.

00:53:01 – 00:53:11

Yeah. It's been definitely my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you guys for listening to the podcast. And if you're watching as well, make sure to subscribe on the YouTube channel.

00:53:11 – 00:53:28

You can follow us on LinkedIn, on Twitter, and also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. I was gonna say Apple Music, but Apple Podcasts. Follow us there. I am gonna try to be interacting with people more like the Spotify comments. I think that's been, very interesting.

00:53:28 – 00:53:54

I've had a few people, drop some comments. So love to build conversation there. And if you wanna join the Code Fellowship Discord and be in fellowship with other Christian developers, brothers and sisters in Christ, who want to create awesome things and work onto the Lord. There is a link down in the show notes as well that you can click on, and we will welcome you with open arms. Thank you so much for listening or watching, and I'll see you guys in the next one.

00:53:54 – 00:53:55

Take care and God bless.

Navigating Fatherhood, Business, & Hardships

Transcript

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