Nobody Uses Trucks For That

November 7, 2023

Ian & Aaron follow up on last week's component conversation, talk about Ian's new truck, debate if Laravel devs get paid less, & more. Sponsored by LaraJobs & Screencasting.com. Sent questions or feedback to mostlytechnicalpodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript

Ian
00:00:00 – 00:00:01
Hello?
Aaron
00:00:02 – 00:00:06
Hello. I feel like I, I've seen you a bunch recently. I know.
Ian
00:00:06 – 00:00:09
Maybe this is we're gonna turn this into a daily podcast. I don't know.
Aaron
00:00:09 – 00:00:11
Seriously, breaking news only.
Ian
00:00:12 – 00:00:17
Gosh. Jeez. Yeah. By the way, the special episode, I'd like to throw in a little wrinkle to the audience. You know?
Ian
00:00:17 – 00:00:20
They think they know our schedule. Boom. Special episode.
Aaron
00:00:20 – 00:00:22
We get the most popular man on the Internet.
Ian
00:00:23 – 00:00:25
Yes. We got connections.
Aaron
00:00:26 – 00:00:27
That was that was a lot of fun.
Ian
00:00:28 – 00:00:34
Yeah. And we had Kayla before that, so we had 2 interviews. Are are we turning into an interview show? Let's answer that question.
Aaron
00:00:34 – 00:00:43
The answer is no, but I'll be honest. It's pretty tempting. 1 one, it's a lot it's a lot of fun. You know? It's a lot of fun to have other people on.
Aaron
00:00:44 – 00:00:48
But 2, it just the numbers look so good. Number go up, man.
Ian
00:00:48 – 00:00:50
Number go up and to the right. It's amazing.
Aaron
00:00:50 – 00:01:03
It's it's it's tempting. But I will say, I feel like there were so many shows that I used to listen to that then just turned into interview shows that had the same people on that were on every other show.
Ian
00:01:04 – 00:01:04
Right.
Aaron
00:01:04 – 00:01:20
And so it was like these bootstrap shows that used to be, like, ride alongs. And then it was, hey. We're gonna do interviews because it's easier, and somebody's doing the interview rounds, and it's like, oh, shoot. Now every show I listen to that week is the same person. Yeah.
Ian
00:01:20 – 00:01:22
Exactly. Hate that.
Aaron
00:01:22 – 00:01:33
Hate that. So I don't wanna I don't wanna become that. But I do think it's fun every now and then to have somebody come on and just, like, be a part of the show and not do, like, you know, the big interview thing.
Ian
00:01:34 – 00:01:45
Yeah. I think that's the perfect the perfect balance. Right? It's like when you can just drop somebody in once in a while who's just, like, a good fit and it's fun and it's interesting to listen to, that's great. Like, not forcing it.
Ian
00:01:45 – 00:01:57
That's the thing with the interview show is you end up, like, having to force it. It's like, how do I find 52 interesting people to be on this show? You know? And then so you're like, okay. Well, Rando just has something to talk about this week because they've launched something or whatever.
Ian
00:01:57 – 00:02:05
And then you're like, okay. Well, I guess we'll have Rando on because they got something to talk about. And then you're down that road of it's super boring and all that. So Yeah.
Aaron
00:02:05 – 00:02:11
It's super boring. You're doing backstory the whole time. And it's just like, this isn't very fun to listen to.
Ian
00:02:11 – 00:02:30
And both of these guests really tied into the show because we've been on LiveWire a lot. We've been on React a lot. And so I feel like that was an awesome fit. And if we can just, you know, find people like that who add to what we've been discussing recently, I feel like that's a a good idea, but not, not forcing it. Yeah.
Ian
00:02:30 – 00:02:38
But, yeah, a lot of great feedback on those episodes. Tons of people tweeting us. Creator of react chimed in, thought the episode was great. So
Aaron
00:02:39 – 00:02:48
That was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Dan Abramov quoted me and said, like, this is a great episode. I really enjoyed the way they talked about it.
Aaron
00:02:48 – 00:02:50
And I was like, oh, wow. You're kind of a big deal.
Ian
00:02:50 – 00:02:55
Yeah. He was like, we should turn it into a blog post. I don't know if we're actually gonna do that, but that
Aaron
00:02:55 – 00:02:58
Oh, we're definitely not, but Sam should. Yeah.
Ian
00:02:58 – 00:02:59
Yes. You should. Go for
Aaron
00:02:59 – 00:03:04
it, Sam. It's your content. I'm not doing it. Yeah. I thought that was that was interesting.
Aaron
00:03:05 – 00:03:10
And then, I thought Caleb's podcast was was great.
Ian
00:03:10 – 00:03:11
Yeah.
Aaron
00:03:11 – 00:03:39
What are your having let it simmer for a little bit. I I listened to the part where I wasn't on it, so I had to listen to the components part and a little bit of that. And then some people linked us to some component libraries that were, like, flex UI or something like that. Right. And then I I linked to, Adam Wavin tweet where he's, like, like, I've been working on this combo box for I thought I was done for the past 2 weeks, and stuff keeps coming up.
Aaron
00:03:39 – 00:03:42
So what's the final what's the final Ian take on the components?
Ian
00:03:43 – 00:04:17
I definitely well, I mean, just in general, I think livewire components are a great idea because unlike all these other component libraries, it's like people are reinventing the wheel a lot on a lot of component libraries right now. But one that's dedicated to LiveWire, isn't reinventing the wheel so heavily because there isn't there there's a one, like, one kind of sizable open source one, but it's not that big. And you have to, like, adopt a lot of its other philosophy. And then there's a few other, like, smatterings of things, but there's not much out there for, like, pure Livewire components. And obviously, I think Caleb will do a great job with it.
Ian
00:04:17 – 00:04:41
So I'm I'm all aboard the components. Whether or not like, how much he integrates, like, other things into it, whether it's React or other things, I don't know. But, yeah, I think I think it's gonna happen, and I think it'll be a big success for him. So I'm excited. I mean, some other stuff that's even come out of component talk, it's like the next day or whatever, he released, the Anchor plug in.
Ian
00:04:41 – 00:04:44
I don't know if you saw that. But I did.
Aaron
00:04:44 – 00:04:46
You seem real excited about that.
Ian
00:04:46 – 00:05:04
Yeah. The Anchor plug in is super awesome. So it's just like a way it's basically floating UI, I think it's called. It's kind of like a alpine wrapper for this existing positioning UI. But there's so many things where like special boxes or popovers or special inputs, you want something to pop up.
Ian
00:05:04 – 00:05:16
And, you know, the way Alpine does it natively, like, you could kinda do it, but it doesn't, like, react automatically if the screen changes and whatever. There's just weird little things that go on with it. And with this, it's like, boom. Perfect. Like you put this whole tag in.
Ian
00:05:17 – 00:05:19
It all is magical. It works perfectly.
Aaron
00:05:19 – 00:05:22
It has collision detection. For like the edge of the screen.
Ian
00:05:22 – 00:05:46
All that stuff is built into it. And just was like really smooth and everything too. So that, so already we've gotten some, some upside in the community from the idea of future components, with the x anchor, which I'm sure is part of his thinking there. And, I've already used it in the new HubSpot stuff I'm doing to do some custom stuff. So Oh, nice.
Ian
00:05:46 – 00:05:50
Definitely, if you haven't seen XAnchor, check that out because it's really, really good. You have to learn
Aaron
00:05:50 – 00:05:54
something fast. You released it last week, and you already you already got it installed and using it?
Ian
00:05:55 – 00:06:01
Literally, as he's building stuff, I'm like, dude, just send me, like, just send me whatever you have. Like, as you're just building it
Aaron
00:06:01 – 00:06:03
zip files of that code back there?
Ian
00:06:03 – 00:06:24
I've already got a zip file, like, I'm I'm getting I've got the inside track on a few things here, but let me tell you. I'm like, just send it to me because I'm like, right in the middle of, like I'll be your guinea pig on things. Just, like, just send me whatever you have because I just I just want it all built in there wonderfully and built by the man himself. You know? It just works so nice when because he knows all the deep internals of everything.
Ian
00:06:24 – 00:06:36
You know? It's like when I'm trying to hack stuff in, I don't know the deep internals of anything, but he just knows all those deep internals, and it's so good. So yeah. So, some of that's ongoing. But, I
Aaron
00:06:36 – 00:06:39
think he's gonna get fabulously wealthy off of LiveWire components.
Ian
00:06:40 – 00:06:42
I was just gonna ask you that. So what's your take on the,
Aaron
00:06:42 – 00:06:44
level of take. Yeah. Okay. I think,
Ian
00:06:44 – 00:06:46
Fabulous wealth.
Aaron
00:06:46 – 00:06:54
Yeah. I think it's gonna work. I think he's the only person that can do it. Right. Because of what you said and because of his distribution.
Aaron
00:06:55 – 00:07:20
Yep. I think the trick is the it's a quagmire. I really think it's a quagmire of, like, with even just the combo box, doing a combo box well is is a huge amount of work. And so Yep. You know, I don't know how much he can, like, I I think he's he's out on the idea of leveraging, like, Radix or Shadzian or something, like, wrapping it.
Ian
00:07:20 – 00:07:21
Probably.
Aaron
00:07:21 – 00:07:26
But I wonder how much he could just, like, learn from it in quotes, which means
Ian
00:07:27 – 00:07:27
Right.
Aaron
00:07:27 – 00:07:32
Take it. You know? Right. Like, how how much can he just take and convert to Alpine
Ian
00:07:32 – 00:07:34
and just, like the core out there.
Aaron
00:07:34 – 00:07:51
Look down into their dirty secrets of to make this work on IE 11 and this work on, you know, Firefox and just be like, oh, great. I don't have to learn that, you know, independently. I can just take what they learned and translate it to Alpine. So I think he's gonna pull it off. I think it's it's just gonna be really hard.
Aaron
00:07:51 – 00:07:53
But Yeah. I think he'll get paid for it. So that's good.
Ian
00:07:54 – 00:08:22
Yeah. I mean, what's even like the tweet Adam had about, I mean, they are using React Aria. So, like, they are building on top of an existing I don't know if React Aria has the full combo box or he's, like, merging different components of it together into a combo box. But either way, like, even when building on top of a semi established framework for this stuff, you can have issues and edge cases and all that. So definitely but, you know, on the flip side, that's what you're getting paid for too.
Ian
00:08:22 – 00:08:24
Like Right. Right? Like, I mean paid to
Aaron
00:08:24 – 00:08:26
eat glass so that other people don't have to.
Ian
00:08:26 – 00:08:30
Yeah. Exactly. That's the value. Like, if it was easy, then I wouldn't pay you anything. Right?
Ian
00:08:30 – 00:08:31
But it's not easy. So There'd
Aaron
00:08:31 – 00:08:33
be 10 open source versions of it already.
Ian
00:08:33 – 00:08:35
Right. Exactly. So Like chat with
Aaron
00:08:35 – 00:08:46
my PDF, it must be easy because there are a 100 open source versions. So backing up 2 seconds is Yeah. Is are are Tailwind Labs, are they abandoning headless UI, you think?
Ian
00:08:46 – 00:09:06
No. I don't think so. I think that came up recently, I think, on Twitter or somewhere, and Adam was addressing that with somebody. So I don't think they said they're not abandoning it because also, they also wanna support Vue and that end of their their world. So I think, they're kind of in it for that, but I think it is more of a
Aaron
00:09:06 – 00:09:08
challenge than UI is so good.
Ian
00:09:09 – 00:09:14
I haven't used it, but it does seem good. I do yeah. I don't know. It's just like it doesn't have everything. Right.
Ian
00:09:14 – 00:09:30
So then that's always led me to like, well, I'll just use Radix, which has almost everything. Even it doesn't have everything, but it's got more of everything. And with the components and react, you can just pretty easily mix and match. It's not that big a deal. So you can pull something from somewhere else or whatever.
Ian
00:09:30 – 00:09:40
But, yeah, I don't know. I don't think they're letting it die, but I think it's just gonna be just another one. I I'm pretty sure they're not using it on their new stuff or at least not. Maybe they are using
Aaron
00:09:40 – 00:09:41
catalyst stuff?
Ian
00:09:41 – 00:09:41
Is that
Aaron
00:09:41 – 00:09:42
the name of the new stuff?
Ian
00:09:42 – 00:09:49
Catalyst. Yeah. Maybe they are using the combo box because they did have a combo box in headless UI. So maybe they're using some stuff in the other stuff. I don't know.
Ian
00:09:49 – 00:09:51
That would be interesting to find out.
Aaron
00:09:51 – 00:09:58
How much is completionism a big deal with these component libraries? Are you pretty comfortable mixing and matching?
Ian
00:09:58 – 00:10:16
Yeah. I think, the React ones, anyway, worked really well mixed and matched. Like, I think just based on, like, kind of the foundational elements of react, like, you can compose them, which is, like, this whole thing, obviously. Like, you can compose them, like, pretty easily and not run into too much trouble generally. So, yeah, I think that is possible.
Ian
00:10:17 – 00:10:23
But in terms of general completions with library like, in the Livewire library, I feel like that needs to be pretty complete.
Aaron
00:10:23 – 00:10:24
Me too.
Ian
00:10:24 – 00:10:33
I don't think it could just be, like, 10 components. Like, maybe you start that way, but I think it needs to be fleshed out into, like, something pretty sizable. Would be more unique.
Aaron
00:10:34 – 00:10:41
Yeah. Yeah. I would think so. Just because there is no, like, Radix or Shadcian to fall back on.
Ian
00:10:41 – 00:10:54
Yeah. And even if some of them are not, like, LiveWire ish really at all. Like, it's really just like a blade file, essentially, that's doing some alpine stuff. Like, some of them might just be things like that. Like, here's an accordion.
Ian
00:10:54 – 00:11:09
Like, it's got nothing to do with Livewire at all. It's not Livewire in any way. It's not feeding back to the server. But it's just part of this library for completeness. And I can just know I have an accordion as part of this, even though it's not doing any server side stuff.
Aaron
00:11:09 – 00:11:13
Written to the same standard and taste of the rest of my component library. Exactly.
Ian
00:11:13 – 00:11:24
Yeah. However, I customize things. I customize this the same way as I customize the other stuff, and whatever, you know, whatever the syntax, all that. Yeah. So it can all be the same, I think.
Ian
00:11:24 – 00:11:36
And that stuff's easy too. Like, he already has that stuff. So it's just about wrapping it up and, you know, bundling it together there. So I don't think that'll be too hard. The hard stuff definitely gonna be your date pickers and your combo boxes.
Ian
00:11:36 – 00:12:02
Yep. And, you know, over time. There's other types of components that I wish a lot of these things had, like, a dual, like, a you ever see, like, where it's, like, 2 two big select boxes and you can list movers I think they're called like you can move between Like there's a lot of these other components that even these other frameworks don't have and it's like, oh, I'd love a mic component library that'll be able to handle some of these more educate or trees, like really good trees. Yep. More like b to b type stuff.
Ian
00:12:02 – 00:12:05
Not really stuff consumer apps would use so much, but
Aaron
00:12:05 – 00:12:14
Well, that's when you get into, like, that's when you get into these other worlds that have real component libraries, like the, you know, the dot net world or the Java world.
Ian
00:12:14 – 00:12:15
Then I have a lot
Aaron
00:12:15 – 00:12:32
of stuff. $1,000 a year a seat per developer. Right. And it's it's like, you know, you've got hundreds of components and you have all that wacky stuff like you're talking about. Because it is truly like somebody working in the in the guts of AT and T, and they need some, you know, random b to b component.
Aaron
00:12:32 – 00:12:52
And they're, like, yeah. We'll pay, you know, $5,000 a year for our 5 developers to access this. I think component libraries are so tempting as a developer to want to do because it's so like, it's so fun, and it's so like, there's so many discreet little things that you get to work on.
Ian
00:12:53 – 00:12:53
Yep.
Aaron
00:12:53 – 00:12:58
And each one has its own little, like, own little universe of problems, and
Ian
00:12:58 – 00:12:59
Right.
Aaron
00:12:59 – 00:13:13
The boundaries are well defined. And so you get to work on all these you get to fiddle. I feel like you get to do a lot of fiddling. And so it seems like a whole lot of fun to, you know, to write 1 and put 1 together until you interact with, like, oh, how do I do styling? How do I do props?
Aaron
00:13:13 – 00:13:16
How do I do how do I do how do I do this? Right. I don't wanna do that.
Ian
00:13:16 – 00:13:25
Yeah. Or browsers and all that stuff. Like, the worst case scenario for browser stuff. But, well, that's that is interesting about components too. There's, like, those 3 layers.
Ian
00:13:25 – 00:13:41
There's, like, open source. There's, like, buy once or maybe annual, but it's still cheap, which is kinda like what I think the Livewire ones are probably gonna be at least initially. Right? Like, it's $300 Whether that's once or whether that's a year or or it's something like that. And there's not necessarily, like, per seat limits and stuff.
Ian
00:13:41 – 00:13:58
Right. And then there are those, like, really big frameworks, that are, like, yeah, it's, like, $1,000 a developer see a year. And but it has everything. We we have actually bought one of those for the old help spot, or the current help spot. For the just for the date picker.
Ian
00:13:58 – 00:14:12
Like, I literally pay, like, $80 a year for a date picker because they were the only one that would do whatever. We had different limitations. Yeah. And we were not even doing, like, airline stuff or anything. Like, there's not even, like, range selecting and stuff in our case, but it was just to make it work.
Ian
00:14:12 – 00:14:16
It was, like, the best one. And so, yeah, people pay for something.
Aaron
00:14:16 – 00:14:42
That was the original thesis behind Hammerstone that we did not officially pull off. But it was like, if we could do this one thing super well, then people would pay for it because it resolute the company that I used to work at for many, many years, we paid, I think, $1,000 a seat a year for a grid or spreadsheet Right. Implementation. We used a hands on table, which is incredibly good. And it was just, like, all they did was the spreadsheet part.
Aaron
00:14:42 – 00:15:00
They didn't do any of the, like, syncing to the back end or anything like that. It was just presentational grid, and it was it was a great component. But they had, like, a team of I think they had a team of, like, 15 full time people working on it. It's like y'all are making 1,000,000 of dollars a year off of this one component. Yep.
Aaron
00:15:00 – 00:15:13
That it's just it feels I feel like it's pure. It's like the developer thinks of it as pure developing. Like, I'm just gonna work on this one component. Right. I don't have to worry about all this other, like, you know, product market fit.
Aaron
00:15:13 – 00:15:17
I just need to build a component. And if it's good enough, people will pay me for it. It's
Ian
00:15:17 – 00:15:19
like Yeah. There are those little changes in there.
Aaron
00:15:19 – 00:15:21
Yeah. It's a Sounds nice.
Ian
00:15:21 – 00:15:31
The right thing for that. Yeah. Even the date one we use is, like, part of a bigger library, but we just use only the date. Mhmm. But, like, yeah, that is just, like, literally a single component.
Ian
00:15:31 – 00:15:47
But it's like I think developers and bootstrapper type developers especially get caught up in, like, the price of things. Like, like, nobody's gonna pay for that, whatever. But it's, like, no. Like, building that spreadsheet component, you're literally talking about thousands of hours of development time, and and you're not even gonna do it as well after that.
Aaron
00:15:47 – 00:15:49
To make a much worse version. Yes.
Ian
00:15:49 – 00:16:09
So it's like yeah. Because so I can just work and spend $1,000 and I could be productive 5 minutes from now and building the actual whatever business thing I'm supposed to be building with this, not off on the side quest of, like, building our own internal spreadsheet builder, which is, you know, obviously insane. Right? So Yeah. Yeah.
Ian
00:16:09 – 00:16:13
So you're like, boom. No problem. A $1,000. Great. Like, not even a question.
Ian
00:16:13 – 00:16:40
We're just gonna buy it without thinking about it. So, yeah, if you can find those niches where you can where there's not like the the problem with some of those niches is, like, the open source versions eat you up because it's like, well, there's this open source version that's, like, really good, and it's good enough and whatever. I'm just gonna use it without even having to go to my boss to ask for a $1,000 or whatever. But some of these things like that is not the case, like, where this this is just better than those other alternatives.
Aaron
00:16:41 – 00:16:46
Yeah. It's tempting. I hope I hope Caleb pulls it off. I think he will. I think he has good enough taste that he can do it.
Ian
00:16:46 – 00:16:52
Yeah. It's gonna be good. I'm excited for it. Alright. What should
Aaron
00:16:52 – 00:16:52
we do next?
Ian
00:16:55 – 00:16:56
I got a new car.
Aaron
00:16:56 – 00:16:58
You got a new car?
Ian
00:16:58 – 00:16:59
I got a new car.
Aaron
00:16:59 – 00:17:01
What did you get? Cybertruck?
Ian
00:17:02 – 00:17:08
I got 2 Cybertrucks. I got a matte black Cybertruck. Did you see that thing going around
Aaron
00:17:08 – 00:17:10
I did. I've got thoughts
Ian
00:17:10 – 00:17:13
on this. But so I just talk about should we talk Cybertruck quick? Let's just Let's talk
Aaron
00:17:13 – 00:17:17
let's talk Cybertruck real real quick. Sorry to sorry to preempt your big news.
Ian
00:17:17 – 00:17:18
No. Let's do it.
Aaron
00:17:19 – 00:17:26
So Cybertruck, I will start by saying not my preferred shape of a vehicle. I don't love it.
Ian
00:17:26 – 00:17:26
Definitely not.
Aaron
00:17:26 – 00:17:55
So I don't I don't love it. Here's the thing here's the thing. Here's my meta analysis on it. Everyone right now is, like, making fun of the build quality and dunking on how it looks and saying it looks really stupid, and I just don't have the energy for that. Like, I can look at the truck and say, like, I'm not gonna buy that, but I can also look at, you know, whatever the the Kia Soul or any you know, those those truck those cars that look like a box on wheels.
Aaron
00:17:55 – 00:17:58
I can look at that and say, no. I'm not gonna buy that.
Ian
00:17:58 – 00:17:58
I think
Aaron
00:17:58 – 00:18:12
the thing I the thing I'm the thing I'm down on is people, like, saying that it looking at it and saying, you know, they're gonna go broke. This is the stupidest thing ever. Look how bad the build quality is. And I'm like,
Ian
00:18:12 – 00:18:12
oh, yeah. I don't
Aaron
00:18:12 – 00:18:21
think that. Yeah. It it it's got like the the what? Almost the most valuable company in the world in Tesla. It's like, yeah.
Aaron
00:18:21 – 00:18:31
They do things too fast. They rush things out the door. He drives a like, he his personality is a little too hard driving, but, like, I don't know. They kinda pull stuff off, don't they? Yeah.
Aaron
00:18:31 – 00:18:39
You don't have to like the truck, but they pull stuff off. So that's my meta analysis. I will not be buying one regardless of if they fix the build quality, but
Ian
00:18:39 – 00:18:39
that's
Aaron
00:18:39 – 00:18:41
my that's my take on it.
Ian
00:18:41 – 00:18:47
Yeah. It's just not a I'm a huge truck guy. I'm a Texas level truck guy. Wow. Love truck you wouldn't have guessed that.
Ian
00:18:47 – 00:18:48
Right? But I love trucks.
Aaron
00:18:48 – 00:18:49
Guess that.
Ian
00:18:49 – 00:18:53
I'm a big truck guy. Even though I don't haul gravel all day, I just feel like trucks are
Aaron
00:18:53 – 00:18:57
so good for you. Before? I know. Nobody uses trucks for that. No.
Aaron
00:18:57 – 00:18:58
No way.
Ian
00:18:59 – 00:19:07
You got 3 kids, man. You got stuff to haul in the truck. There's always something I need a truck for. I haven't had a truck the last few years. I missed it.
Ian
00:19:07 – 00:19:15
But, yeah, a Cybertruck, like, it's not even that useful as a truck is kinda my main beef. Like, those edge, like, back being so angled, like, you can't put stuff across the back. Like
Aaron
00:19:16 – 00:19:17
Oh, that's true.
Ian
00:19:17 – 00:19:18
I don't know. It hurts the
Aaron
00:19:18 – 00:19:19
truck in a size compared
Ian
00:19:19 – 00:19:20
to, like,
Aaron
00:19:20 – 00:19:23
an f 150? Is it similar bed size?
Ian
00:19:23 – 00:19:36
I think it's similar to, like, the crew cab type version of f 150, so to the smaller bed size. Okay. It's not like one of the real big beds, but, yeah. I don't know. The only cool thing I dislike literally everything about the Cybertruck.
Ian
00:19:37 – 00:20:03
But the only cool thing I will say about it is I do like this idea of it being just a giant canvas for, like, custom graphics. Like, if you wanna put some custom graphics on that thing, like, it's sort of cool for that since it's just like a big square blank slate like a thing. So that's sorta interesting, but, yeah, not my cup of tea. So, but related, so I got a Rivian r one t, which is the Rivian truck.
Aaron
00:20:03 – 00:20:06
Rivian r one t. Yeah.
Ian
00:20:06 – 00:20:15
It's electric. My first electric car back in the truck game after not having a truck for, like, 2 years, which is making me crazy. It's very
Aaron
00:20:15 – 00:20:16
nice. Cool looking.
Ian
00:20:16 – 00:20:27
Yeah. It's great. It looks like a truck, like a proper truck, but it's, you know, a little swoopier than kind of your f 150. It's a little smaller than f 150. A little swoopier.
Ian
00:20:28 – 00:20:38
But still actually, it's still big. It's bigger than I thought it would be. Actually, it's it's I think it's even bigger. Like, I've had a couple ridgelines, Honda ridgelines. I think it's bigger than the ridg line was.
Aaron
00:20:38 – 00:20:47
This is cool. Alright. So talk me through talk me through the thought process here. When you were, you were evaluating, Ian needs a new vehicle. How did we end up here?
Ian
00:20:49 – 00:20:56
Ian has had a lot of different vehicles over the years, and I hate rebuying the same vehicles. And then that limits me. And then Interesting.
Aaron
00:20:56 – 00:20:59
I love rebuying the same thing all the time. I don't
Ian
00:20:59 – 00:21:01
like yeah. It's like the socks. Right? I don't know. I like the I like
Aaron
00:21:01 – 00:21:05
the Such a sad spicer. You're such a maximizer. Okay.
Ian
00:21:05 – 00:21:05
Maximize.
Aaron
00:21:06 – 00:21:09
Okay. So the Ridgeline was out because you'd already bought one at some point. Yeah. That's out.
Ian
00:21:09 – 00:21:12
We've actually had 2. That was one where I broke my rules.
Aaron
00:21:12 – 00:21:14
They're saying you imagine?
Ian
00:21:14 – 00:21:20
Different models. So one was the, like, original Ridgeline, and one was the next generation Ridgeline. So but I couldn't go back there.
Aaron
00:21:20 – 00:21:21
So Okay.
Ian
00:21:22 – 00:21:32
Yeah. Wanted a truck, and there's not really many options in this segment. That's the thing. If you don't want the, like because, like, the full I was thought thinking like a Tundra Mhmm. But it's so huge.
Ian
00:21:32 – 00:21:40
You know? It's just like, I'm not I that's just too big. Like, then you get into, like, parking's annoying and Yeah. Whatever. Just big big truck problems.
Ian
00:21:40 – 00:21:42
And I don't know the slow down the Tacoma,
Aaron
00:21:42 – 00:21:43
which is a step down.
Ian
00:21:44 – 00:21:46
Well, I've had a Tacoma, so it's mostly off
Aaron
00:21:46 – 00:21:47
the list.
Ian
00:21:47 – 00:21:58
Yeah. But I do like the Tacoma a lot. It's a little, like, for me, I'm so I'm 64, and I it's a little bit squatter than, like, a Ridgeline or the r one Toyota.
Aaron
00:21:58 – 00:22:06
Toyota is not enormous. I have a 4 runner, and I'm I'm only 61, and I feel I feel a little bit hunched in that.
Ian
00:22:06 – 00:22:15
I think they might even be the same frame. No. I think, I think that might be built on a Tacoma, like, body, if I recall. But, that
Aaron
00:22:15 – 00:22:15
would make sense.
Ian
00:22:15 – 00:22:28
Yeah. So in there, it's a little, and, like, the tech is not like, they haven't updated tech in these things in forever. I don't know really why. Some was a little like, oh, like, you're in there with, like I think they have, like, now at least a little screen. The one I had had, like, essentially no screen.
Ian
00:22:28 – 00:22:35
But Yeah. So I don't know. So I was yeah. And that's, like, kind of it. It's, like, the Ridgeline is a coma.
Ian
00:22:35 – 00:22:55
There's the Ford Maverick, which is even smaller. I didn't really wanna go that small. Or like the f 150 or the lightning, which is electric f 150, which is interesting. But, again, it's, like, full size truck, which I was didn't I was trying to at least be a little bit smaller than that. So, so anyway, yeah.
Ian
00:22:55 – 00:23:08
Ended up on and the other thing was Rivian has only previously been selling. So this is why I didn't do this before. Like, they started with the Tesla kinda model, essentially, of, like, the highest end. Super high. It's, like, the only super high end.
Ian
00:23:08 – 00:23:15
And I didn't want the highest end one. I didn't want 4 motors. I didn't wanna go 0 to 60 in 3 seconds. Like, whatever. I don't care about any of that.
Ian
00:23:15 – 00:23:15
So
Aaron
00:23:16 – 00:23:18
You lose all the plywood out the back if you do that.
Ian
00:23:20 – 00:23:39
So they came out with a, a cheaper it's still not cheap, but the a lower end model, which only has 2 motors and, whatever. Some other things, whatever. I just got one. The only thing I have is, like, the large, which is, like, the medium sized battery pack. But they don't even make the small, so it's still kinda, like, the cheapest you can get.
Ian
00:23:39 – 00:23:42
But, so I got literally the cheapest r t r one t you can get.
Aaron
00:23:42 – 00:23:46
And Let's talk range. So what do you get have you taken delivery of it?
Ian
00:23:46 – 00:23:49
Yeah. So I've been driving around for a couple weeks now. Yep.
Aaron
00:23:50 – 00:23:52
Alright. Let's talk first impressions, and then I wanna hear range.
Ian
00:23:53 – 00:24:05
First impressions was very good. Yeah. It's really nice inside. I don't like it's like leatherette, which is not my favorite. I'm a leather more of a real leather man, but, you know, it's fine.
Ian
00:24:05 – 00:24:12
1 pedal driving was really weird. Like so I had to go to Brooklyn to pick it up. You don't know about the 1 pedal drive?
Aaron
00:24:12 – 00:24:15
1 pedal driving? Oh, man. What?
Ian
00:24:16 – 00:24:20
So Texas, they only have the gasoline vehicles. They're not they don't have electric yet.
Aaron
00:24:20 – 00:24:24
So this is not a Texas thing. Cars have 2 pedals.
Ian
00:24:24 – 00:24:25
What are
Aaron
00:24:25 – 00:24:26
you talking about?
Ian
00:24:26 – 00:24:34
So it's got that still has 2 pedals, but you barely ever use the brake. So when you let off the gas, it breaks.
Aaron
00:24:35 – 00:24:40
Oh, so that's, like, the the recharge or the reclaim?
Ian
00:24:40 – 00:24:48
It recharges. Yeah. So it's not really breaking. It's breaking with the engine, I guess, or the transmission. I don't know what's going on in there, but
Aaron
00:24:49 – 00:24:50
it's regenerative. Who can say for
Ian
00:24:50 – 00:24:51
sure? Breaking.
Aaron
00:24:51 – 00:24:52
Yeah. We're past it.
Ian
00:24:52 – 00:25:00
Right. We're past that now in the age of cars. If I'm having any idea what the hell, how anything works. Yeah. So, yeah.
Ian
00:25:00 – 00:25:20
So getting used to that. So this is a weird I've never driven one like that before, except for like a golf cart, which works the same way or whatever. But, so I'm in Brooklyn and w this Rivian place is like in the bowels of Brooklyn. So it's really like where it's basically just like all warehouses and stuff and crowded streets and trucks on the road and people double parked or whatever. So I'm like
Aaron
00:25:20 – 00:25:24
Lots of honking, lots of scaffolding. Lots of I'm walking here. No.
Ian
00:25:24 – 00:25:37
Scaffolding, actually. No scaffolding in Brooklyn. That's a Manhattan thing. But so, yeah, so figuring out the 1 pedal driving, like, in this, like, little bit tougher environment was a little tricky, but we made it out. And, yeah, it's good.
Ian
00:25:37 – 00:25:52
I mean, I would say thinking about you have to think about the battery more than you do in a gas car. Mhmm. Think about the gas because you're like, whatever. I could run this thing down to 2 miles, and I know somewhere in 2 miles, like, there's a gas station and Yeah. It's not a problem.
Ian
00:25:53 – 00:26:04
And I don't have the home charger set up yet, so I can only do, like, the trickle charging from a regular outlet, which only gives you, like, I don't know, maybe, like, 20 miles in overnight or something like that.
Aaron
00:26:04 – 00:26:05
So Oh, jeez. That's nothing.
Ian
00:26:06 – 00:26:16
Yeah. So it's a little like I did one big trip in it already. So I had to, like, stop and use a charger. Or I've I've used, 2 other chargers so far, and that's worked out fine, though. Like
Aaron
00:26:16 – 00:26:19
Do you have access to the Tesla Supercharger network?
Ian
00:26:19 – 00:26:34
So we will, and we do a little bit. So a certain number of Tesla stations already have the ability to charge other types of cars, and, there's one not that far from me, like, 20 miles away. So I've been to that one.
Aaron
00:26:34 – 00:26:38
It's just right on the edge of what you get with your trailer charge. So,
Ian
00:26:39 – 00:26:53
why would we happen to be you know, when you're out that way, it's like you have to think about it that way. Right? Well, I'm gonna be over there, so I guess I'll top up with the supercharger. So that but next in 2024, Rivian will have access to all the Tesla networks. So yeah.
Ian
00:26:53 – 00:27:07
So then it'll be fine because those are pretty common around here. And I do have the thing getting installed at my house so that I have the faster charging at home. It's still not as fast as a high speed charger, but it's, like, 20 miles an hour. It'll charge. So Okay.
Ian
00:27:07 – 00:27:10
For me, that's gonna be, like, totally fine. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron
00:27:10 – 00:27:16
So So what is that? Like, a 2 40 volt thing? Like a like a washer dryer plug you gotta get installed or something?
Ian
00:27:16 – 00:27:29
You could do it as a plug, but safer to have it just hardwired. And since I don't have a plug there anyway, like they're just going to run it from the box to the that's right next to the garage. So it'll be pretty straightforward, than the Gotcha.
Aaron
00:27:29 – 00:27:30
Okay. Cool.
Ian
00:27:30 – 00:27:32
So it is nice to not go to gas stations.
Aaron
00:27:32 – 00:27:36
Are you doing it to save the earth, or are you doing it because it's super cool? Okay.
Ian
00:27:36 – 00:27:42
Yeah. No. I don't even think that's true. Like, I think that's all BS. Like, I don't think it's saving anything.
Ian
00:27:42 – 00:28:00
Like, I mean, there's Yeah. You know, by the time you, like, build all these batteries and all this stuff, like, I don't think it's actually saving the earth per se. I am a big fan indirectly of the, like I'm definitely not doing it for that, but I do like the idea of it pushing people towards nuclear. I'm a big nuclear energy fan. More nukes.
Ian
00:28:00 – 00:28:01
We need nukes everywhere.
Aaron
00:28:01 – 00:28:02
Agreed.
Ian
00:28:02 – 00:28:18
That's the solution to every problem is nuclear energy. So whatever. The more I can help string the grid, maybe they'll actually build some new nuclear plants in America at some point. But, so, yeah, not for that. I mean, I think they are just better cars.
Ian
00:28:18 – 00:28:44
Like, the electric does have some nice advantages, especially once the infrastruct I do think it is it is still an early adopter type thing, though, because there is, like, hassle factor that is, not there with a gas car. But, but, yeah, I do think, you know, it is just not it is nicer. Like, the acceleration's nice. Just like the tech is nice. I mean, the tech, some of it is, like, you could put this tech in a gas car.
Ian
00:28:44 – 00:28:58
I don't know why for the most part they don't put the tech in the gas car, but, so some of it is different in that way. But it's just nice. Like, whatever. I have a frunk and the frunk is awesome because, like, I can put stuff in a truck that's locked away instead of having to just always make the bed work for everything.
Aaron
00:28:59 – 00:29:00
Everything. And there's another truck
Ian
00:29:00 – 00:29:01
in the back. Bed. You don't have to get a bed cover and lock to hide anything. I have
Aaron
00:29:01 – 00:29:04
a bed covers, actually. Yeah. So, like,
Ian
00:29:07 – 00:29:17
so, yeah, so far so good. I mean, obviously, they're like, you know, there's a lot of benefits to that. Not having an engine, it's safer and blah blah blah. So we'll see how it goes. So far, so good.
Ian
00:29:17 – 00:29:24
No trouble, digging it. But we'll Cool. See. I've used the truck bed multiple times already. It's so nice to have a truck at the house.
Ian
00:29:24 – 00:29:29
If you have kids and you don't have a truck, you're making a big mistake, get a truck. Aaron, you need a truck.
Aaron
00:29:29 – 00:29:32
Well, we just got the minivan. Yeah. I don't know how many more vehicles we can
Ian
00:29:32 – 00:29:35
we can hold in the house. Runner. Swap out the 4 Runner.
Aaron
00:29:35 – 00:29:37
Am I gonna become a truck guy?
Ian
00:29:37 – 00:29:42
Oh, the truck is so good. First of all, you live in Texas. You have to have a truck. 2nd of all, the truck is so good. You have 4 kids.
Ian
00:29:42 – 00:29:44
You must have a truck. It's just required.
Aaron
00:29:45 – 00:29:48
Yeah. But, like, 4 kids can't fit in a truck.
Ian
00:29:49 – 00:29:52
It doesn't matter. It's not about hauling the kids. It's about the stuff.
Aaron
00:29:52 – 00:29:53
It's about the stuff.
Ian
00:29:53 – 00:30:00
Bringing stuff in, throwing stuff out, whatever, all this stuff. You're gonna need stuff. A truck makes stuff easier. Yeah. Trust me.
Ian
00:30:00 – 00:30:10
A few years from now, there's gonna be all this garbage and junk. Your wife's gonna be yelling at you to get rid of this crap. You're gonna be trying to shove it in the back of the 4 Runner. That's always a disaster. Stuff's leaking.
Ian
00:30:10 – 00:30:12
Like, you just need
Aaron
00:30:12 – 00:30:20
a truck. Yeah. Yeah. The the nasty garbage that leaks is that is the, like, primary use case for a truck.
Ian
00:30:20 – 00:30:21
God. It's so good. That the fucking
Aaron
00:30:21 – 00:30:24
not even think about it. Plywood. A 4 by 8 sheet of plywood.
Ian
00:30:24 – 00:30:28
Yes. You're build the next shed quarters, you're gonna need to have a truck.
Aaron
00:30:28 – 00:30:35
I was filling up the 4 Runner with stuff that didn't fit, and I'm hanging out the back and trying to, like, tow strap it down so it doesn't fly out.
Ian
00:30:35 – 00:30:39
Just had a truck. You don't even have to worry about any of that. You just boom. Throw it in. It's done.
Ian
00:30:40 – 00:30:46
You go to the beach. I mean, I'm a big beach, China beach guy. I know. Ride on the beach. The kids in the back.
Ian
00:30:46 – 00:30:48
There's nothing kids love being in the back of the truck.
Aaron
00:30:48 – 00:30:49
Kids do love being in the back
Ian
00:30:49 – 00:30:50
of the truck.
Aaron
00:30:50 – 00:30:57
There's a 0% chance my wife would let any of kids ride in the back of the truck, at least not for, like, 15 years.
Ian
00:30:57 – 00:31:02
No. No. No. If you're on the beach, you're not going fast. I I'm not a fan of, like, go down the road in the truck.
Ian
00:31:02 – 00:31:08
But if you're just on the beach and you're going 15 miles an hour and you're bouncing and it's like the ocean, it's so good.
Aaron
00:31:09 – 00:31:14
0% chance. Let me let me I'll just I'll just re up on my 0% there.
Ian
00:31:14 – 00:31:17
Alright. So let's get a kid update. When are these kids coming?
Aaron
00:31:17 – 00:31:20
Boy, they're coming, aren't they?
Ian
00:31:20 – 00:31:22
Soon. Right? We're in November now.
Aaron
00:31:22 – 00:31:36
Soon. The final day possible would be the day before Thanksgiving. So that would be, I think, 23rd. So we have a c section scheduled for the 23rd. Okay.
Aaron
00:31:36 – 00:31:36
That's that's twins.
Ian
00:31:36 – 00:31:37
That's absurd.
Aaron
00:31:37 – 00:31:39
Yeah. You don't have
Ian
00:31:39 – 00:31:39
a choice.
Aaron
00:31:39 – 00:31:59
Yep. So 23rd, I think I don't know that we'll make it that far. I think the 23rd would be 37 weeks, I think Mhmm. Is right. And I think with the first two, we actually got pretty close to 37 weeks, but they're both measuring each child.
Aaron
00:31:59 – 00:32:04
Remember, there are 2. Each child is measuring 6 pounds right now.
Ian
00:32:04 – 00:32:06
That's a lot of baby in there.
Aaron
00:32:06 – 00:32:11
It's a lot of baby. So it's great news because, I mean, like Right.
Ian
00:32:11 – 00:32:12
Big house. Boxes.
Aaron
00:32:13 – 00:32:23
Yeah. Super viable. Maybe no NICU time at all. We didn't have any NICU time the first round, and I think they came out at, like, 66 and 60. Nice.
Aaron
00:32:24 – 00:32:29
So, yeah, man. It could be I mean, it could be right now. It could be literally today.
Ian
00:32:29 – 00:32:34
Oh, man. How great would it be if she just bust in right now and is like, let's go.
Aaron
00:32:34 – 00:32:36
It'd make great content, but I'm not ready.
Ian
00:32:38 – 00:32:42
Yeah. You're never ready. You know, you're never ready. But no softball,
Aaron
00:32:42 – 00:32:56
but I'm not. I'm, like, less than never ready right now. I'm just super not ready. This weekend, so Friday, PlanetScale had the day off. We do every 1st Friday is a day off, 1st Friday of the month.
Aaron
00:32:56 – 00:33:07
And so I drove down to Austin because there's, like, a group of Internet friends, bootstrappers that all we hang out in this this Slack chat, and once a year, we get together.
Ian
00:33:08 – 00:33:08
Right.
Aaron
00:33:08 – 00:33:31
And so they were in Austin this week, I think starting, like, on Wednesday and finishing up on, like, Sunday morning or something. And I was, you know, originally supposed to go and do this whole retreat thing, and then we found out we were pregnant with twins. And it's you know, they're due any second. So I drove down Friday morning and drove back Friday night because I'm like, I can't I can't be away for away.
Ian
00:33:31 – 00:33:31
Yeah.
Aaron
00:33:32 – 00:33:39
Even 3 and a half hours away. Like, if, you know, it's midnight, and she's like, well, it's time to have these babies. Like, I can't be in Austin.
Ian
00:33:39 – 00:33:41
You don't wanna miss the babies. Yeah. That would
Aaron
00:33:41 – 00:33:43
be Goodness. No.
Ian
00:33:44 – 00:33:47
So yeah. A little FaceTime in, though. A little FaceTime.
Aaron
00:33:48 – 00:33:52
Yeah. You know? Shook some hands, kissed some babies. It was good. It was good to see.
Aaron
00:33:52 – 00:34:04
They're all friends that I've known for many, many years. Some going on, like, maybe 12 years now. Okay. And we do these retreats once a year. And it's it's really fun.
Aaron
00:34:04 – 00:34:29
It's a fun format. It's like beforehand, you're supposed to work up some slides of, like, where you're at with your business and what you need help with, and then each person gets a 1 hour, like, moderated hot seat. And so the person goes up to the front. They have the TV. Everybody's sitting around kinda just, like, you know, drinking sodas and taking notes, and they go through their presentation.
Aaron
00:34:29 – 00:34:45
And then there's also a moderator that helps keep, you know, the peanut gallery on track instead of, like, because, you know, when you get a bunch of nerds together, we all, like, focus in on one thing, and then the person is like, hey. That's actually, like, 2% of my business, and I don't wanna talk about that thing.
Ian
00:34:45 – 00:34:46
Right. And
Aaron
00:34:46 – 00:34:49
so the moderator is there to be the bad guy and be like, no. No. No. No. No.
Aaron
00:34:49 – 00:34:55
No. Y'all back up. We're trying to talk about this thing. And so, know, I was only there for maybe 5 or 6 presentations.
Ian
00:34:57 – 00:34:57
Oh, wow.
Aaron
00:34:57 – 00:35:13
But they probably did yeah. They probably did, you know, 18 over the course of the 4 3 or 4 days. And so it's super fun, and then we cater in all the foods. We don't have to go anywhere so that we don't waste any time, like, trying to figure out where can we take 20 people.
Ian
00:35:14 – 00:35:14
Right.
Aaron
00:35:15 – 00:35:30
And then at night, you just kinda hang out, and some people did an escape room. Lots of people just hung out, and I think some people brought, like, consoles, and we they played video games and stuff. Mhmm. So very, very fun. Highly recommend the retreat format.
Ian
00:35:31 – 00:35:41
Yeah. We do a thing like that with some of the Laravel people. We've been doing this for a long time now. We had kinda outgrew MicroConf and, like, then we're just, like, well, let's just do our own thing.
Aaron
00:35:41 – 00:35:41
Yeah. Exactly.
Ian
00:35:42 – 00:35:48
But we jettison all the formality. So there's no presentations. There's no anything we just
Aaron
00:35:48 – 00:35:49
a sweet hang. Right?
Ian
00:35:49 – 00:36:03
We just have a cabana and we drink. Yep. And then people bring up like, we do talk about some business stuff, but it's more informal than that. I always take something away from it too business wise. So it still works out, but it is less formal, than that.
Ian
00:36:03 – 00:36:10
I was interested in these formal ones. I know a few people who do this type of thing. People seem to really like it and get a lot out of it. But
Aaron
00:36:10 – 00:36:19
I really like I really like the formal one. I would like, you know, I would like a sweet hang with, you know, 5 or 7 people. But when you have, you know, 18 people there
Ian
00:36:19 – 00:36:21
Yeah. That's a good story. A little bit of structure. Yeah. Yeah.
Ian
00:36:21 – 00:36:32
Yeah. We're usually, like, 10, not usually more than 10. So, yeah, when you get over that, it does get a little bit harder. Wait a minute. I had some thoughts.
Ian
00:36:32 – 00:36:40
And I can't remember. Alright. So kids are coming oh, PlanetScale. So you, take an actual time off? Or what how does that work?
Aaron
00:36:40 – 00:36:48
What's your paternity leave situation? The paternity leave at PlanetScale is extremely generous. It's 12 weeks. Oh, wow. Just fully off.
Aaron
00:36:48 – 00:37:11
When the first set of twins came, I think I had a week or 2 fully off and then, like, 4 or 5 weeks of part time, old company. And PlanetScale is just exceedingly generous with their paternity leave. Mhmm. And it's really interesting. I didn't I I would never would have thought of this, but it's set up to mirror, exactly mirror the maternity leave.
Ian
00:37:11 – 00:37:11
Right.
Aaron
00:37:11 – 00:37:31
And I thought, like, well, that's nice, but I don't understand why. And I've come to realize it's to not, it's to incentivize or to not disincentivize people to hire women. It's like, oh, if I'm gonna hire a man and he has his wife has a baby, then he gets 2 weeks off, and he's gonna be right back to work.
Ian
00:37:31 – 00:37:31
Right?
Aaron
00:37:31 – 00:37:38
I'm like, oh, so instead of cutting the maternity leave short, you just made the paternity leave matching and generous.
Ian
00:37:38 – 00:37:39
And Yeah.
Aaron
00:37:39 – 00:37:49
I know. So good for PlanetScale, and good for me. So 12 weeks off, there's a part of me that feels like, jeez. That's really long, isn't
Ian
00:37:49 – 00:37:50
it? Right.
Aaron
00:37:51 – 00:38:07
And, you know, we've got this whole, like, YouTube video project thing going. And so I'm kinda like, I kinda wanna make sure that this all keeps rolling. And my boss is like, well, you're gonna have 12 weeks off and you should take it all and not work. And so it's kinda weird. I'm like, hey.
Aaron
00:38:07 – 00:38:11
What if I did some work? And she's like, what if you didn't work at all? So Well, that is kinda
Ian
00:38:11 – 00:38:17
interesting because you're you're not your situation is very different. Right? It's not like, well, you're down in the dungeon slapping some code around.
Aaron
00:38:17 – 00:38:18
Right.
Ian
00:38:18 – 00:38:20
And so somebody else will fix those bugs while you're gone.
Aaron
00:38:20 – 00:38:21
Right.
Ian
00:38:21 – 00:38:34
Whatever. Who cares? Like things go a little slower, but it's fine. But you're kinda like the face of the company on a whole at least one platform and really multiple platforms. So, like, that's a little different situation for the face to just disappear for
Aaron
00:38:35 – 00:38:46
I know. I know. I don't ever love that. Yeah. I feel like, you know, a big part of my my career is, like, investing in this strategy that we're doing.
Aaron
00:38:46 – 00:38:50
And I kind of want to make sure that I see it through. Like, yes. I'm entitled
Ian
00:38:50 – 00:38:51
to anything? Or
Aaron
00:38:53 – 00:39:19
I'm trying. You know, we we have been we tried a longer form strategy recently, and so I wasn't able to, like, churn out mini short form short form being, like, 5 to 10 minutes. Right. And so I don't have as many in the can as I want. But, yeah, my my goal for this week and next week is to just go, like, goblin mode and make as many videos as I possibly can.
Ian
00:39:19 – 00:39:20
Yeah.
Aaron
00:39:21 – 00:39:35
So, yeah, I'm in this weird spot where it's like my boss and the CEO and everybody is like, dude, just take the time off. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't I I don't think that's a good idea. And so I don't know. We'll we'll see.
Aaron
00:39:35 – 00:39:53
I just really I don't know. I'm I'm super I'm definitely entitled to it, and everyone is telling everyone that matters, I e, the reporting structure above me. Right. Saying take it, but I feel like, is that a good is that a good move? And I don't know.
Aaron
00:39:54 – 00:39:58
Depends on how many I get done, I think, in the can. Like, it depends on how many I can bank.
Ian
00:39:58 – 00:40:24
Yeah. I mean, especially those first, like, month or 6 weeks, you know, they're just gonna be, like, absolutely brutal because, like, the kids change so much. Like, I mean, by week 3 or 4, the kids, like, doubled in size and, like, usually, like, a totally different like, they're kind of half holding their head. Like, you know, when they're just, like, a blob of mush, like, the day they come out, they're like, you got it so much to do. I mean, it's always so so much to do later too, but at least they're more real and solid, you know, a month in or 2 months in.
Ian
00:40:24 – 00:40:38
So, yeah, it's tricky. I never really took much time off. I definitely wish I'd taken more. I mean, I still it's a little different, my situation, but it's just, like, obviously, people would do cover for me. At at least with the last 2.
Ian
00:40:38 – 00:41:01
The first one, I think I only had I had no employees. So that was just that was not fun. That was just, like, I just went back to work, like, you know, that night, basically, answering support at least and stuff. But, the other 2, yeah, there was people who did support and everything, so that was fine. But, still would work, and I do think it is nice to just especially with the 4.
Ian
00:41:01 – 00:41:18
I mean, the the older 2 are gonna need stuff even with the au pair. Like, they're gonna need Yeah. They're gonna need you, and then, obviously, just all the stuff with the baby. So yeah. But at the same time, you know, maybe towards the back end, if you have slapped together a video or something, probably not the end of the world, you'll you'll be getting bored at times too.
Aaron
00:41:18 – 00:41:23
So Yeah. That's how I felt with the first two is at some point, it's like, this is really not that hard.
Ian
00:41:24 – 00:41:24
Like
Aaron
00:41:24 – 00:41:24
You're in
Ian
00:41:24 – 00:41:26
the zoo. You know all the stuff now.
Aaron
00:41:26 – 00:41:37
Yeah. A few weeks in a few weeks in or maybe a month or 2 in, it's like, honestly, they sleep a lot, and then they eat, and then you can kinda just plop them. Right.
Ian
00:41:37 – 00:41:39
You you just put them down. Stays as nice. You can just plop them.
Aaron
00:41:39 – 00:41:40
Yeah.
Ian
00:41:40 – 00:41:42
They're where I left them. I put them over there. Exactly.
Aaron
00:41:42 – 00:41:54
Put them on the little boppy in their little snuggy or whatever it's called, swaddle, and they just stay there and they just look around. It's like, oh, this is really easy. Whereas the 2 the 2 year olds, the 2 and a half year olds, you can't take your
Ian
00:41:54 – 00:42:04
eyes off them. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, the the other thing, you do have a lot riding on are the this set equally as good as the first set in terms of sleeping.
Ian
00:42:04 – 00:42:13
Like, if they end up being bad sleepers, then not yeah. All bets are off. And who knows what's gonna happen? We may not see you at all for 3 months. You might be totally underground.
Ian
00:42:13 – 00:42:27
Exactly. So hopefully, they are good sleepers. We have some genetic proof that the first set is a good good pair. So, I mean, you have all that whole stuff. The the first one's interfering with the second group here and Yeah.
Ian
00:42:27 – 00:42:38
Waking people up and stuff like that. There's, you know, more not gonna be a perfectly quiet house like it was the first time. So some stuff like that going on, but, yeah, hopefully not an issue.
Aaron
00:42:38 – 00:42:41
Hopefully not. Yeah. Fingers crossed. We'll we'll keep you posted.
Ian
00:42:42 – 00:42:43
Babies are coming.
Aaron
00:42:43 – 00:42:44
Babies are
Ian
00:42:45 – 00:42:54
coming. I don't know. Should we talk about where do you wanna go? We got 2 more topics on here.
Aaron
00:42:54 – 00:42:58
Yeah. I just added 1. I just added a tweet. Wait. Have you read the tweet?
Ian
00:42:58 – 00:43:00
Yeah. I did that one. Yeah. Let's do it.
Aaron
00:43:00 – 00:43:25
Here's the tweet. From Adib Hana or Hannah, PHP slash Laravel is probably the most enjoyable language framework to work with, but it's also the least paying. Ever since I switched to go slash node, my salary almost doubled. Mhmm. And we got a couple of, got a couple of me toos in in the replies as well.
Aaron
00:43:25 – 00:43:32
Yep. So as a as a long time Laravel jobs person, tell me what what are your thoughts here?
Ian
00:43:33 – 00:44:00
Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably roughly correct, just generally speaking. I mean, I don't think I think if you but there's, like, the big trade offs there of just because you know a language doesn't mean you can get a job in that language. There's presumably less jobs in those languages in general. I think there's likely way less jobs for a pure Go developer than a pure Laravel developer.
Ian
00:44:02 – 00:44:24
So, you know, so are you able to, like, not just learn the language, but then become proficient, show you're proficient, and all those type of things? Do you want to even do that? So there's a lot of factors there that I think are more complicated than that tweet, which is just like, if I learn Go, I will make double the money. I don't think that's true, sort of on the surface there. What do you think about that?
Aaron
00:44:25 – 00:45:00
That seems right to me. I think, man, I think the top, maybe 3 to 4% of Laravel jobs probably pay equivalent to most of the other jobs. I mean, your top 5 to 7% or something. And I feel like if if you're so I what I what I mean to say is I don't think you can be a an average or below average PHP developer and then pick up another language and go get one of these top paying jobs at, you know, Vercel or wherever. Right.
Aaron
00:45:00 – 00:45:35
Whoever hires Go people or JavaScript people. But I think it is interesting. I think the Stack Overflow survey recently that that came out a couple months ago maybe, it it was it was pretty clear that JavaScript developers on average get paid more. But the thing I don't understand about that is so I feel like you and I operate just kind of in a separate world of almost purely Laravel developers and not PHP, not Symfony, not WordPress. Right.
Aaron
00:45:35 – 00:45:46
And I just don't know how much that survey reflects that reality. And I think the base, like, the the sample size is so much larger for PHP.
Ian
00:45:46 – 00:45:48
Right. It's a much wider group.
Aaron
00:45:48 – 00:45:59
Yeah. There's there are just so many more low paying jobs because there are so many more jobs, and it is kind of like a beginner friendly language historically. So I don't know.
Ian
00:45:59 – 00:46:09
I agree. And I think also, like, a lot of these, like, JavaScript jobs, there's less of them. They are heavy in these the verse cells of the world. Hey. We just got $300,000,000.
Ian
00:46:10 – 00:46:31
We need to blow $300,000,000. So we're gonna, like, pay top dollar for these roles we have because we're not gonna put a lot of, like, time into, like we're gonna have the money do some of the work for us. Like, it's gonna be a very high paying job, very highly qualified. People are gonna apply, and we're gonna filter that way versus, like, maybe going a different route with that. So, yeah, I I don't know.
Ian
00:46:31 – 00:46:41
So the the way less, like, I think, front end React developers than PHP developers. Right? Like, what? One hundredth as many or 1 fiftieth as many? Like, a lot less Yeah.
Ian
00:46:41 – 00:46:43
I would say than PHP developers.
Aaron
00:46:43 – 00:46:45
So Just because there are so many PHP developers Yeah.
Ian
00:46:45 – 00:46:46
There are also a lot
Aaron
00:46:46 – 00:46:51
of these front end React only, but the PHP universe is just so freaking big.
Ian
00:46:52 – 00:47:01
Way bigger, way bigger. I feel like, you know, in in Twitter, it can feel like, oh, man, there's React developers everywhere, but the reality is there's way, way more PHP developers out there. Yeah.
Aaron
00:47:01 – 00:47:02
I think you're probably right.
Ian
00:47:02 – 00:47:11
And it also depends a lot on the jobs. Like, yeah, like, you're not gonna use PHP to launch a missile. Right? Or to, like, send a satellite into space. Yeah.
Ian
00:47:11 – 00:47:37
I don't think that would be recommended. So but maybe you would use Go for that. Or certainly, you'd use c plus plus or something like that. So, yeah, if you Go become a c plus plus guru, you could get a job working at SpaceX firing missiles, which is going to be a much higher paying job than, you know, building a website or a b to b SaaS app is probably gonna pay you. But, you know, again, like, you also gonna have to be the best of the best.
Ian
00:47:37 – 00:47:58
You probably have to have, like, a whole additional set of knowledge, I would think, with mathematics and things beyond just, yes, I know how c plus plus works. You might have to have a little more, other knowledge beyond just the code. So, you know, there's so many factors. I think it's hard to just yeah. I don't like that blanket statement in general that I I definitely think it's a bad career idea to just be like, well, I'll just learn this and then I'll get paid twice as much.
Ian
00:47:58 – 00:48:02
Like, I don't think that's gonna work out for most people.
Aaron
00:48:03 – 00:48:31
Yeah. And I feel like this guy I feel like, Adib is is kind of a senior developer anyway. And I feel like for a senior developer, that may be more of a viable strategy. Like, if you're a senior developer and you already have all of, like, the kinda like the the other stuff, like, not the programming, but all the other stuff that senior developers know, like, you know, trade offs being one of them. Right.
Aaron
00:48:31 – 00:48:48
You know, all of the stuff you have to know to be a senior, and you're like, well, I'm just gonna switch over to a different language. I feel like that's a much more viable strategy than I've just learned PHP. I'm gonna go just learn no or go, and then I'm gonna get paid a ton. It's like,
Ian
00:48:48 – 00:49:05
I don't know. This is not even really a new idea, and I don't think it's even that it's it's you can make the same case with dotnet and any other language or framework, I feel like, especially these widely used ones. Because it's like you're a c you become a senior developer, and then you usually have, like, a choice. Right? Like, my you have, like, one of 3 choices.
Ian
00:49:06 – 00:49:31
Like, I become the manager, which is, like, what a lot of people do. Like, in order for me to move up and get paid more money, I become man the manager of other devs. Right? Yep. Or else I move to, like, a, yeah, a more, you know, a a rarer language or some in demand language or something like that where I can take, these baseline skills that apply everywhere and then apply them to this new language and be already kind of ahead of the curve there.
Ian
00:49:31 – 00:49:59
Yep. Or, like, I go start my own thing because now I know all the stuff coding wise, and maybe I get a founding partner who does marketing stuff and whenever I go do that route. So, like yeah, I think that this is kind of like, not that I don't think it's Laravel specific at all. And I don't and in general, I think it's kind of a standard career path of, like, a senior developer is, like, yeah, you get to a point where you're gonna have to make a choice of if you're looking to go progress forward. Right?
Ian
00:49:59 – 00:50:14
Like, a lot of people also hit that, and they're like, well, I'm 40, and I got 2 kids. And I'm like, cool. Just, like, this job pays well. And I I just wanna work my 35 hours a week, and I'm not trying to, like, also learn a side thing and Yeah. Get a new job at a startup or whatever.
Ian
00:50:14 – 00:50:25
Like, I don't wanna do that whole thing. So, yeah, I'm fine with this, which is a 4th choice, of course, as well. But, yeah. So I I don't know. I think it's fine, but not really specific would be mine.
Aaron
00:50:25 – 00:50:43
Yeah. Interesting anecdata, at least from this one person, to switch over like that. And I think, man, I don't know. It's just so hard to make opinions or have opinions about the PHP industry as a whole because I'm just I just am not a part of it.
Ian
00:50:44 – 00:50:45
Yeah.
Aaron
00:50:45 – 00:50:52
And I also frankly, I haven't I haven't done, like, the pure developer job hunt in a long, long time.
Ian
00:50:52 – 00:50:53
Right.
Aaron
00:50:53 – 00:51:06
Like, I was at Resolute for 5 years, and then I left to go to Tuple for a second and then was now I'm at PlanetScale. And none of, like, none of those have been, I'm looking for a job in Laravel. Right.
Ian
00:51:06 – 00:51:06
So I
Aaron
00:51:06 – 00:51:09
just I just don't even have enough opinions really to say.
Ian
00:51:10 – 00:51:20
Yeah. Well, you're kind of on a you've made a different choice when you reach a certain level. It's like, this is more like developer relations or however I don't know what you'd even classify. You're
Aaron
00:51:20 – 00:51:32
Developer educator. Developer developer relations folks have a lot of opinions about what makes a DevRel a DevRel, and I Okay. Don't have any opinions. I just teach people MySQL. So developer educator.
Ian
00:51:32 – 00:51:39
Alright. There you go. Developer educator. So, yeah. So I guess that's my take.
Ian
00:51:39 – 00:51:40
That's a good take.
Aaron
00:51:40 – 00:51:45
Alright. You got you got you got a few minutes. I got one final wrap up story if you wanna end here.
Ian
00:51:45 – 00:51:46
Yeah. Give us a story.
Aaron
00:51:46 – 00:51:59
I'm at this I'm at this, you know, this little bootstrappers retreat. Right? And we're in between sessions, and we're hanging out, and I've got my I've got my Vuari joggers on. So I've got these you know, I've got joggers on. I've got a pair of Nikes on.
Ian
00:51:59 – 00:52:00
Yep.
Aaron
00:52:00 – 00:52:04
And I have I have my legs crossed. I'm sitting there. I'm talking to a friend. You know, you you know Andrew. Culver.
Aaron
00:52:04 – 00:52:05
I'm talking to Andrew.
Ian
00:52:05 – 00:52:06
Oh, yeah. Mhmm.
Aaron
00:52:06 – 00:52:17
Yeah. So we're just hanging out on the couch talking, and out of nowhere, he says, okay. So do you wear socks with these shoes? Because I'm always trying to figure out if I should wear socks or just go
Ian
00:52:17 – 00:52:18
no socks.
Aaron
00:52:18 – 00:52:19
And I kid you not.
Ian
00:52:19 – 00:52:20
Found the right man.
Aaron
00:52:20 – 00:52:32
I kid you not. A guy sitting on my right. So Andrew's on my left. A guy, sitting on my right, who's also a friend, started laughing, and he said, are you serious? Are you doing a bit?
Aaron
00:52:33 – 00:52:44
And I looked over at that guy, and I was like, he I don't think he listens to the podcast. And he goes, they talk about socks. It's basically a sock podcast. And Andrew was like, no. I haven't listened.
Aaron
00:52:44 – 00:52:45
Tell me. What's the story?
Ian
00:52:45 – 00:52:46
So Oh my gosh.
Aaron
00:52:46 – 00:53:01
Out and about in the world, people are still inquiring about my socks. And thankfully, we had a faithful friend and listener who could back me up there, but I I showed Andrew the way. I told him I told him the truth of the philosophy, and he's he's into it. He loves it.
Ian
00:53:01 – 00:53:05
He's on board. And I assume you actually had socks on. I did.
Aaron
00:53:05 – 00:53:08
The only socks I was wearing them. Yes.
Ian
00:53:09 – 00:53:14
Yep. And now okay. I got another question about this. Because so I'm wearing your socks. Right?
Aaron
00:53:14 – 00:53:15
And Love it.
Ian
00:53:16 – 00:53:26
I normally wear a Stan Smith's, which I don't know if you're familiar with those. Yeah. I would say they don't they still show just slightly with the Stan Smiths. So now do
Aaron
00:53:26 – 00:53:28
you Smith is a low rise.
Ian
00:53:28 – 00:53:41
It's a low rise. And do you base your shoe selection on the sock philosophy? So, like, are you when you go to pick out shoes being like, nope. These are too low rise. I can't buy these even if I like them otherwise.
Aaron
00:53:41 – 00:53:47
I have I have switched off of mostly all low rise shoes for other reasons.
Ian
00:53:47 – 00:53:48
Okay.
Aaron
00:53:48 – 00:54:05
But so most historically, for, like, the past 10 or 15 years, all shoes I have are the Nike size. Like, they go up that high. So it's like New Balance, Nike, something that goes up a little higher and no more Yeah. Yeah. No more CVs or Vans or anything that's low rise.
Ian
00:54:06 – 00:54:06
Okay.
Aaron
00:54:07 – 00:54:15
So it I don't know I don't know which dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog, but, yeah, they they work together well.
Ian
00:54:15 – 00:54:23
Okay. Yeah. Because I noticed that in, some shot you had of your socks, and I was like, oh, well, his shoes, maybe it was when you were in here. I guess, showing them the Caleb. When else would I have seen your feet?
Ian
00:54:23 – 00:54:27
I was like, oh, that's a little higher that's a little higher shoe there. So that Yeah.
Aaron
00:54:27 – 00:54:37
It's a little taller shoe. Fits fits my, my body shape a little more. Because if I sometimes if I wear if if I wear the really low rise shoes, they look a little a little like ballet slippers because
Ian
00:54:37 – 00:54:37
Oh.
Aaron
00:54:37 – 00:54:48
You know, tall guy, big legs, little bitty shoes, and it's like yeah. I tried the whole CVs thing for a long time, and I liked them, but decided, nah, it's not gonna work for me anymore.
Ian
00:54:49 – 00:54:54
I love when the podcast makes its way out into the real world. Like, the I know. It was crazy. Out there. Yeah.
Ian
00:54:54 – 00:54:54
That's about
Aaron
00:54:54 – 00:54:58
It's crazy. He asked me that question, and my eyes just got really wide. And, fortunately And
Ian
00:54:58 – 00:55:00
then there's an answer right there.
Aaron
00:55:00 – 00:55:01
Yeah. Fortunately One
Ian
00:55:01 – 00:55:01
of our disciples.
Aaron
00:55:02 – 00:55:03
I had a listener there.
Ian
00:55:04 – 00:55:05
Disciples. And I was like, okay.
Aaron
00:55:05 – 00:55:09
Somebody caught that, and he said, you gotta tell Ian about this on the show.
Ian
00:55:09 – 00:55:10
And so There we are. We're here.
Aaron
00:55:11 – 00:55:13
So there we go. We'll wrap on that. You wanna tell them where
Ian
00:55:13 – 00:55:14
they can
Aaron
00:55:14 – 00:55:14
find us?
Ian
00:55:15 – 00:55:31
Yes. Everybody can find us at mostlytechnical.com, Mostly Tech Pod on Twitter, because I will not say x. And Mostly Technical Podcast atgmail.com. So hit us up there. Also in the, YouTube comments and just on our personal Twitters and all that stuff as well.
Ian
00:55:31 – 00:55:40
So if you have anything you'd like to share, let us know. And we will see you probably next week unless, there's an emergency podcast in the middle
Aaron
00:55:40 – 00:55:40
of the case.
Ian
00:55:40 – 00:55:48
It'll be sooner. Or Aaron has some babies in the mix here, and we have to delay at some point a little bit. But otherwise, we'll see you in a week.
Aaron
00:55:48 – 00:55:49
Alright. See
Ian
00:55:52 – 00:55:53
you. Bye.
Me

Thanks for reading! My name is Aaron and I write, make videos, and generally try really hard.

If you ever have any questions or want to chat, I'm always on Twitter.

You can find me on YouTube on my personal channel or the Try Hard Studios channel.

If you love podcasts, I got you covered. You can listen to me on Mostly Technical.