The Calls are Happening

June 9, 2022

We're starting to have calls with customers!

Refine: https://hammerstone.dev/refine/laravel/docs/main
Torchlight: https://torchlight.dev
Aaron: https://twitter.com/aarondfrancis
Colleen: https://twitter.com/leenyburger
Learn more →

Transcript

Aaron
00:00:00 – 00:00:06
Okay. Colleen, you you're telling me that you're excited about life. So tell me why you're excited about life today.
Colleen
00:00:06 – 00:00:18
I'm just feeling great. Like, I feel so optimistic. And after that so we had a customer interview last week, and it went so well.
Aaron
00:00:19 – 00:00:20
It did go well.
Colleen
00:00:20 – 00:00:20
I mean
Aaron
00:00:20 – 00:00:27
I I will agree with that. That went really well. And it was a customer interview with somebody, I guess, customer, who has already paid, which is helpful.
Colleen
00:00:28 – 00:00:29
I don't know.
Aaron
00:00:29 – 00:00:31
Like value his feedback a little bit higher.
Colleen
00:00:31 – 00:00:38
Like, I don't need drugs when I have dopamine from customer interviews. That's literally what I was thinking this morning as I was walking back
Aaron
00:00:38 – 00:00:40
from somewhere. I hope you told Michelle that.
Colleen
00:00:42 – 00:00:43
Yeah, Eric. I am just What
Aaron
00:00:43 – 00:00:49
what do you think went so well about that? Because you said that right when we got off last week. You said that went amazing.
Colleen
00:00:49 – 00:01:22
So I think one of the things that has been an interesting challenge is our very first Rails client, who is our enterprise client, who is basically paying me as a consultant to integrate this into their application. They are using Query Builder in all of these really amazing creative ways. But also, it wasn't really designed to be used in all these very creative ways. So they're hitting a lot of edges. And that is so great for product development because every time they hit an edge, they reach out to me and I can figure it out.
Colleen
00:01:22 – 00:01:47
Mhmm. The person it's designed for or the the company it's designed for seemed to be a really good fit with the customer interview we had last week. What he wants to do is he wants to use it as basically a tool to build, dynamic reports. And, man, his implementation, like, I cannot wait. I'm actually, like, it'll be really soon, guys, who have already purchased it.
Colleen
00:01:47 – 00:02:08
I can't wait to get it in these guys' apps because they're using it in the way it was designed, and I feel like it's gonna be an awesome experience. Whereas with client, they're like, we wanna do all this crazy stuff and and it's great. But also, there's never that moment of, like, pure bliss when everything just works exactly as designed at the same time.
Aaron
00:02:08 – 00:02:27
Right. I agree with that. His use case seemed right down the middle. Like, the things he wants to do are the reason we built this, and the way that he was talking about, like, the pains of not having Refine was super encouraging to me. Because he was like, yeah.
Aaron
00:02:27 – 00:02:37
This is really painful, and I read your landing page and your docs, and this is the thing that will fix it, and I want it. It's like, oh, thank you. Yeah. That's great.
Colleen
00:02:38 – 00:02:44
Yes. So, yeah, it was just super encouraging. I loved it, and I feel really good about it.
Aaron
00:02:45 – 00:02:48
So what's next for him?
Colleen
00:02:48 – 00:02:53
As soon as we get the validations the way I want them to be, we're ready to go, man.
Aaron
00:02:53 – 00:03:00
Can you start without those? Like, could you start now and then tell him validations are coming in a week or 2 or 3 or 4?
Colleen
00:03:00 – 00:03:11
Yeah. I don't know that that's the best plan because you're gonna have to you're gonna have to I mean, maybe the problem is right now, if you forget to fill in a field, you're just gonna get stuck.
Aaron
00:03:12 – 00:03:12
Right.
Colleen
00:03:12 – 00:03:28
And you're not gonna know why unless you look at the error logs. No. But he's a developer, so he would probably look at the error logs, and then he could just send me a message and be like I can be like, this error always means this. Because I do throw an error on the server side. It's just not it's not rolled up to the front yet.
Aaron
00:03:28 – 00:03:42
Putting it back out to the front. Yeah. I mean, could you could you schedule a start date with him now And between now and the start date and the date that he wants to go live,
Colleen
00:03:42 – 00:03:55
could ship validations? Here here's my thought. So this is my my initial thought on how to approach this. So I have gotten the gem and the MPM package, pulled out a client Mhmm. And put in a clean bullet train app.
Aaron
00:03:56 – 00:03:56
Cool.
Colleen
00:03:57 – 00:04:12
So integrating it, my next step was gonna be integrated in an app I own. Like, my consulting client, this will be perfect for them. So I can smooth out some more edges. Because there's some stuff with the bullet train integration that's very bullet train specific.
Aaron
00:04:12 – 00:04:13
Sure.
Colleen
00:04:13 – 00:04:31
So that was gonna be my next step. And then once I get it on their app, then I was gonna go, to our 2 our 2 first customers that have purchased it. That was kinda my thought. I I don't think, both of those people and I can reach out to the first guy again just to confirm. They they didn't have a super hard timeline.
Colleen
00:04:31 – 00:04:52
Like, I know they need it. Yeah. But it wasn't like I have to have it by this date. So I think the smart move is to wait until it's a lit I mean, I could. But, yeah, I would feel better if I put it in my own app first just to make sure the bullet train versus other people's application integration steps are a little bit more clear.
Aaron
00:04:53 – 00:04:55
Okay. I buy that. I buy that a little bit.
Colleen
00:04:55 – 00:05:13
I mean, I think it's fair to have this conversation again in 2 weeks, because I think there's no you're right. Everything is good besides validations. Like, you know, there's no, there's no big issues at this point. And both the guys are willing to help kind of, like, they're they're beta customers. Right?
Colleen
00:05:13 – 00:05:22
Like, they're willing they're they're in it. They're excited. They're willing to help work on those rough edges. So I guess I could.
Aaron
00:05:22 – 00:05:24
Yeah. So here here's here's my pushing.
Colleen
00:05:25 – 00:05:25
Okay. Tell me.
Aaron
00:05:26 – 00:05:38
It's obviously transparent that I'm pushing you to do it now versus later. But here's here's what I'm thinking. These guys have signed up for beta. They're friendly. They love you.
Aaron
00:05:38 – 00:05:45
They love us. They wanna help. I feel like we could start as soon as your schedule allows
Colleen
00:05:45 – 00:05:45
Yeah.
Aaron
00:05:45 – 00:06:07
And learn probably a ton more from them than you implementing it in your own app. Because you implementing it in your app, you're gonna see maybe a little bit of stuff, but it's the same perspective. Like, it's you again versus an outsider looking at it and saying, oh, this doesn't make any sense. Where in your head, it does make sense. You know?
Colleen
00:06:07 – 00:06:09
Yeah. I'm kind of
Aaron
00:06:09 – 00:06:30
And I think, I think, like, it's gonna take a little bit of time to implement. And I think once there's somebody using it, validations are gonna come a lot faster because they're gonna say, alright. I'm using it. I'm ready to ship it I'm ready to, you know, push it to production, but I can't do that until we have validations. And you're gonna be like, okay.
Aaron
00:06:30 – 00:06:38
I can because I don't I really don't think validations will take that long. I just don't wanna wait. I don't want it to be like an artificial hang up. You know what I mean?
Colleen
00:06:38 – 00:06:42
Yep. No. I totally get it. And I am open to this plan.
Aaron
00:06:42 – 00:06:43
K.
Colleen
00:06:43 – 00:06:47
Yeah. I'm open to I'm open to scheduling a date with them to, like, get get started. That's Yeah.
Aaron
00:06:47 – 00:06:48
And you can
Colleen
00:06:48 – 00:06:49
That seems reasonable.
Aaron
00:06:49 – 00:06:55
I think that's a good first step even if the date the start date is, like, a week or 2 out or 2 or 3 out.
Colleen
00:06:55 – 00:06:59
Yeah. Just to pick a date on their calendar. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good idea.
Colleen
00:06:59 – 00:07:03
I am open to that idea. Yeah. No. I'm not open to it. I'm gonna do it.
Colleen
00:07:03 – 00:07:05
I like it. Okay. Let's do that.
Aaron
00:07:05 – 00:07:06
That was wishy washy. I was gonna Nope.
Colleen
00:07:06 – 00:07:08
It was. Yeah. That's see what that meant. No. No.
Colleen
00:07:08 – 00:07:08
I'm looking
Aaron
00:07:08 – 00:07:09
at anything.
Colleen
00:07:09 – 00:07:18
I'm looking at my calendar. Yeah. I'll reach out to them and get a date probably end of June. It's probably 2 or 3 weeks. 2 weeks.
Colleen
00:07:19 – 00:07:28
And, you're right. I mean, they're both Rails developers too. So Yeah. It'll be great to figure out, like, those sticky edges that as they perceive it as well.
Aaron
00:07:28 – 00:07:28
Right.
Colleen
00:07:28 – 00:07:29
Mhmm.
Aaron
00:07:29 – 00:07:31
Yeah. Okay.
Colleen
00:07:31 – 00:07:32
Yeah. Okay.
Aaron
00:07:32 – 00:07:33
That's exciting.
Colleen
00:07:33 – 00:07:46
That's exciting. I'm gonna write that down, actually. Schedule. Yeah. And so in other, like, really good news for us, but, like, a little scary personally, is I was having a conversation with our contact over at the client.
Colleen
00:07:46 – 00:08:02
And, originally, we had talked about the original plan was we had talked about, like, pulling me in and having me basically be super in their app and be the filter person for every section of their app. And I think as as we have mentioned, their app is huge.
Aaron
00:08:02 – 00:08:05
Huge. Like, 50 engineers working on it right
Colleen
00:08:05 – 00:08:31
now. Engineers working on it. So what was happening is I didn't have any time to work on the product because, I I mean, I will I will just wake up, because I'm on the West Coast, all these DMs from the different teams. Right? So I don't even have context, and I told you they're trying to use they're doing all kinds of cool, crazy stuff with it, but, again, kind of outside of the scope of how it was originally defined.
Colleen
00:08:31 – 00:08:48
So it felt a lot like people were just throwing stuff at me from all these different teams and and the complicated way they were using the filter. So every time, it was, like, trying to get contacts with, like, long, you know, calls, and I didn't have any time to actually work on the product and make it better.
Aaron
00:08:48 – 00:08:48
Bummer.
Colleen
00:08:50 – 00:09:15
So, talking to our guy yesterday, we think we're gonna kinda change that strategy a little bit. K. And, yeah, it's good. We're gonna change that strategy and instead pull me out a little more so I have time to work on the upstream stuff like the documentation different ways they're using it. So they'll have people in the company that can actually the different ways they're using it.
Colleen
00:09:15 – 00:09:27
So they'll have people in the company that can actually help all of these teams, and that person already has more context of the app. And I can actually work on the upstream stuff to, like, improve the product and get them what they need.
Aaron
00:09:27 – 00:09:30
Are you getting a team? Is that what's happening?
Colleen
00:09:30 – 00:09:32
I mean, like, kind of.
Aaron
00:09:32 – 00:09:33
I mean, you are.
Colleen
00:09:34 – 00:09:50
Yeah. Yeah. And it's gonna be great because it's gonna I'm super excited. Like, I just think this is the right move just because, like, I think you and I even talked the other day about one of the teams, like, trying to do something with query builder. And I was, like, it just doesn't feel right.
Colleen
00:09:50 – 00:10:01
But I don't have enough context on what you're doing to to advise you on what you should be doing instead. Mhmm. So yeah. So we're basically I guess, like, I'll get my little team. They're basically gonna funnel up to Yeah.
Aaron
00:10:03 – 00:10:03
That's amazing.
Colleen
00:10:04 – 00:10:22
Yeah. It's gonna be great because then I'll just have a few points of contact, people that are gonna get trained up. And it will this is gonna be really good in 2 ways, Aaron. It's gonna be really good because it's gonna enable me to focus on the product more and the documentation, which, is super important. I mean, we need more documentation.
Colleen
00:10:23 – 00:10:27
And it's gonna eventually make it easier for me to extract myself.
Aaron
00:10:27 – 00:10:32
Of course. Yeah. You're no longer the only person who holds the knowledge.
Colleen
00:10:32 – 00:10:43
Right. Like, when they were pulling me in, it was just I I mean, and they they're asking me all the like like any SQL question comes up, it feels like they they're like, Colleen, where did this query come from? I'm like, we did not make that query.
Aaron
00:10:43 – 00:10:44
Yeah. I know that we didn't write that.
Colleen
00:10:44 – 00:10:56
I know I didn't write that query. I don't know where it came from, but it wasn't me. It wasn't the query builder. Mhmm. But you know, they're pulling me into that and every time and I get it because they're like, oh, this is a weird query.
Colleen
00:10:56 – 00:10:57
Like, the query builder build this?
Aaron
00:10:57 – 00:10:58
Right. Yeah.
Colleen
00:10:58 – 00:11:13
And I totally get why they're doing that. But then it it's it's so much of my time because I'm like, I know I didn't do that, but let me try and help you figure out like what is going on here. Because someone built somewhere, it got built. So this is good. So
Aaron
00:11:14 – 00:11:14
This is great.
Colleen
00:11:14 – 00:11:21
Yeah. It's really good. It's it's gonna be really good. I think it's the right move. It's gonna you know, I was worried with getting pulled in.
Colleen
00:11:21 – 00:11:35
I was like, it will be so hard to extract myself. So it's a little scary because it's nice to just get a consistent paycheck and know I can work 40 hours a week, etcetera, etcetera. But this is what I wanna do. So it's good.
Aaron
00:11:35 – 00:11:39
Well, congratulations. Did you push for that or did he come to you with that?
Colleen
00:11:39 – 00:11:41
No. He came to me with that, like, totally independent.
Aaron
00:11:42 – 00:11:42
Amazing.
Colleen
00:11:42 – 00:11:44
I know. It's like, great.
Aaron
00:11:45 – 00:11:50
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, congratulations. I see why you're so excited.
Colleen
00:11:50 – 00:11:52
Yeah, man. Feeling good.
Aaron
00:11:53 – 00:11:55
Yeah. That's great. When does that start? Do you know?
Colleen
00:11:56 – 00:12:09
I don't know exactly. We're just we're just working out the details of of how we wanna do that. And we're still having a lot of meetings with their teams to kind of, you know, figure out how we can facilitate it. But I think it's gonna be really good.
Aaron
00:12:09 – 00:12:10
Good. Right on time too.
Colleen
00:12:11 – 00:12:12
Yes. Indeed.
Aaron
00:12:13 – 00:12:19
Because it's hard to hard to scale up sales if you don't have any time to even think about the product.
Colleen
00:12:19 – 00:12:23
Right. I can't even work on the product. Yeah. Oh, man. Okay.
Colleen
00:12:23 – 00:12:26
So that's all my good news. So I'm feeling good. Things are good over here.
Aaron
00:12:26 – 00:12:28
Good. My turn.
Colleen
00:12:28 – 00:12:29
Your turn. Tell me.
Aaron
00:12:30 – 00:12:32
I'm feeling pretty good.
Colleen
00:12:32 – 00:12:32
Okay.
Aaron
00:12:33 – 00:12:39
I'm so I've been working pretty hard on the front ends. Yes. I'm excited. Okay. View 23.
Aaron
00:12:40 – 00:12:50
So I spent all weekend this weekend, this past weekend working on them, and then stayed up super late last night working on them again. And I feel really good about them.
Colleen
00:12:50 – 00:12:51
Okay.
Aaron
00:12:52 – 00:13:24
They are they are complete. There's nothing I mean, they're they're I still need to write tests, but I'm not worrying about that right now. They are functionally complete, and I think more importantly, I feel like I understand them. So if so if something goes wrong, which something will, there will be bugs, I'll be able to fix them more confidently. So I spent a ton of time just battling with JavaScript packaging and, like, all the renderless components and stuff.
Aaron
00:13:24 – 00:13:33
So it wasn't, like, it wasn't super fun, but in a way, it was very fulfilling because I feel like this has been such a roadblock for us.
Colleen
00:13:33 – 00:13:33
Yes.
Aaron
00:13:33 – 00:13:52
And it's, like, it's hardcore it's hardcore programming. I you know, tracking all of this state throughout these renderless components and injections and all of that. It's been it's been it's been kinda hard. This is also not my area of expertise. So that has compounded it.
Aaron
00:13:52 – 00:14:14
But we're at a spot now where last night, I wrote a little script to release, dev versions to NPM. And so I can release a dev version, hop to a fresh Laravel app, and NPM install the front end and composer install the back end, and it just works. And so
Colleen
00:14:15 – 00:14:16
That's amazing.
Aaron
00:14:16 – 00:14:31
I know. I have the app set up down. So when people are using Vue, I can tell them, like, you know, how to get it all set up and how to plug it into their app. And so that feels great. That's really, really I feel like huge progress.
Aaron
00:14:33 – 00:14:55
And so on Thursday, I'm meeting with Neil, to get it into his app. So we have the first he's been using it, in his, back office using Nova. He's been just using, the Nova plug in. But the the reason he originally bought it was for his front end. Like, he needs it for his users.
Colleen
00:14:55 – 00:14:56
Okay.
Aaron
00:14:56 – 00:15:36
And I think he and Sean worked on getting it in his app a long time ago and then ran into all of the customization things. And that's what led us down this horrible road of, like, customizing the front ends, because he got it installed in his app, and it just it looked it stuck out like a sore thumb. So now after, you know, talking to customers and figuring out what they need, we have these customizable front ends, and so I'll be meeting with him on Thursday to get it going in his app. And, hopefully, that will be the first of many who can, like, get it installed, not in Nova Yeah. And customize it to their heart's content.
Aaron
00:15:37 – 00:15:37
So
Colleen
00:15:37 – 00:15:44
So after your meeting with Neil, will you be ready will we be ready to start selling it to our Laravel friends?
Aaron
00:15:44 – 00:15:45
Mhmm.
Colleen
00:15:45 – 00:15:46
Yes. That's so exciting.
Aaron
00:15:46 – 00:15:56
Yep. Yeah. I I mean yeah. I I think, you know, to turn it back around on myself, I think we're ready now. I mean, it just so happens that a meeting with Neil in 2 days.
Aaron
00:15:56 – 00:16:01
So what's the point? But, yeah, we're we're ready now. And so I could start
Colleen
00:16:01 – 00:16:04
You could start DM ing people and telling them we're ready.
Aaron
00:16:04 – 00:16:05
DM ing people and emailing people
Colleen
00:16:06 – 00:16:06
Okay. And
Aaron
00:16:06 – 00:16:07
telling them we're ready. If I'm
Colleen
00:16:07 – 00:16:09
gonna set a start date, then I want you to do that. At least
Aaron
00:16:10 – 00:16:12
No. No. No. No. This only flows one way.
Aaron
00:16:12 – 00:16:12
Nope.
Colleen
00:16:12 – 00:16:20
I used to tell you what to do. At least 2 people before Friday. Deal? And try to set up a call.
Aaron
00:16:20 – 00:16:23
What's what's what oh, try to set up a call. Okay.
Colleen
00:16:23 – 00:16:30
Yeah. I would just I would just like, people that have expressed interest. I'd be like, it's ready. Let's set up a call and, like, do it, I guess.
Aaron
00:16:30 – 00:16:30
K.
Colleen
00:16:30 – 00:16:31
Okay. 2 people.
Aaron
00:16:31 – 00:16:32
2 people before Friday.
Colleen
00:16:32 – 00:16:34
2 people before Friday? Okay. Cool.
Aaron
00:16:34 – 00:16:37
Yeah. So I think this is progress.
Colleen
00:16:38 – 00:16:40
Oh, it's definitely progress. There's nothing to think about.
Aaron
00:16:40 – 00:16:41
It's okay.
Colleen
00:16:41 – 00:16:43
Sure progress. It's amazing progress, Aaron.
Aaron
00:16:44 – 00:16:55
Yeah. It is. It doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like, I don't feel like a sense of euphoria. I think that will that will happen once people actually start using it.
Colleen
00:16:55 – 00:16:56
Yeah.
Aaron
00:16:56 – 00:17:09
I think we've just been here for so long that it I don't wanna get my hopes up. But this does feel different because there are no there are no, well, we need to do one more thing. Like, there's nothing else.
Colleen
00:17:09 – 00:17:10
Yeah.
Aaron
00:17:10 – 00:17:16
I know it's not perfect, which is fine, but I know that it's functional, which is the only thing that really matters. So
Colleen
00:17:17 – 00:17:23
Awesome. So I was I was talking to my friend, Chris, and I was making this analogy. Have you seen Lord of the Rings?
Aaron
00:17:23 – 00:17:23
Yes.
Colleen
00:17:24 – 00:17:29
Okay. What's the little Hobbit guy's name? I forget. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Photo.
Colleen
00:17:30 – 00:17:36
So, you know from the beginning of this epic 3 and a half hour movie it's really 9 hours because there's 3 movies.
Aaron
00:17:36 – 00:17:36
True.
Colleen
00:17:36 – 00:17:43
You know he's gonna get the ring to Mordor. Like, we all know it. But watching him, you're just like, it's so freaking hard.
Aaron
00:17:44 – 00:17:45
It's so freaking hard.
Colleen
00:17:45 – 00:17:59
And that I was like, that's what I was saying. I was like, I feel like that's me and Aaron. Like, I know we're gonna get there, but that does not mean it's easy. No. Like, it still feels really, really hard, and there's still so many points where we can get knocked down.
Colleen
00:17:59 – 00:18:01
But I know we're going to get there.
Aaron
00:18:01 – 00:18:07
I know we're going to get there but boy. Right? Why does it feel hard? Yeah.
Colleen
00:18:07 – 00:18:14
Oh, man. Oh, well, that's awesome news. Okay. That's super good. Do okay.
Colleen
00:18:14 – 00:18:23
Do we need to talk about how we're gonna name this thing and set up our website? You think that is value added? Because we have gotten a lot of feedback on that.
Aaron
00:18:23 – 00:18:25
Yes. We can talk about that.
Colleen
00:18:25 – 00:18:29
Let's talk about that. So do we need to switch domains?
Aaron
00:18:30 – 00:18:43
I don't know, Colleen. Here's the thing. I so the vibe that I've gotten from, Michelle on software social is Hammerstone is an insane name, which fine. I'm I'm open to that.
Colleen
00:18:43 – 00:18:45
Dude, she's totally the vibe.
Aaron
00:18:45 – 00:18:56
She hates it. She hates it. That's fine. I'm not tied to that. The thing that confuses me is, like, having a product.
Aaron
00:18:57 – 00:19:05
The thing that confuses me is that people are confused that a company can be named one thing and a product can be named another thing.
Colleen
00:19:05 – 00:19:06
Yes. People are clearly confused.
Aaron
00:19:07 – 00:19:28
I'm totally open to that being our fault and not, like, differentiating the 2. I'm open to that possibility. But the thing that confuses me is, like, why don't you name the company Refine? Well, Refine is the name of the product, and we've got, admittedly, the other, you know, products are all open source.
Colleen
00:19:29 – 00:19:30
Right. Under the hammer stone.
Aaron
00:19:31 – 00:19:34
But yeah. I I don't know. So what what are your thoughts?
Colleen
00:19:34 – 00:20:08
So I think before Postmark was sold, most people didn't even know Postmark was owned by Wild Bit. Right? Because it was like complete, complete independent branding. And I totally see the appeal of that. However, something that was interesting that happened in our customer interview last week is he casually mentioned how he found Torchlight, and then he realized that Refine was made by the and he loved it was made by the same people that made Torchlight, which was part of your original hypothesis that quality software under the brand is gonna make a difference.
Colleen
00:20:09 – 00:20:14
I don't know enough about SEO to know, honestly. Like, it's not like we can bomb.
Aaron
00:20:14 – 00:20:24
I think yeah. I feel like that's jumping the gun. The problem that we're trying to address is people seem confused. I Yes. So Just to set just to set the expectations.
Aaron
00:20:24 – 00:20:27
We're not gonna do anything about this for a little while.
Colleen
00:20:27 – 00:20:27
Yeah.
Aaron
00:20:27 – 00:20:29
Like, this is a total distraction for
Colleen
00:20:30 – 00:20:31
From what we're trying to do right now.
Aaron
00:20:31 – 00:20:33
The next 2 months for sure.
Colleen
00:20:33 – 00:20:46
I know. I don't feel I do think I don't feel confused either. I do feel like we need to be consistent in what we call it. So if we're gonna say, like, we could just stop using the term hammer I mean, I don't know. I don't have an answer.
Colleen
00:20:46 – 00:20:50
I don't think we need to hustle to switch domains, though. I don't think No. What? No. No.
Colleen
00:20:50 – 00:20:52
No. I mean, we can't I'm
Aaron
00:20:52 – 00:20:52
not doing that.
Colleen
00:20:52 – 00:20:55
It's not like refine is available as a domain. Right?
Aaron
00:20:55 – 00:21:03
And No. Actually, I did you know, I say I'm not doing that. I did look to see what domain domains are available. Nothing stuck out to me.
Colleen
00:21:04 – 00:21:11
I do see the, idea of, like, branding each. Hey. We can get refine rails.com for $9 a year.
Aaron
00:21:11 – 00:21:15
Well, we could until you set it on the podcast and someone snatched it from us.
Colleen
00:21:15 – 00:21:16
Nope. I'm gonna buy it right now. Watch me.
Aaron
00:21:16 – 00:21:17
Okay.
Colleen
00:21:17 – 00:21:22
I'm buying it on the podcast. Refine dash rails.com. Yeah. I'm just gonna book it.
Aaron
00:21:22 – 00:21:23
Dash rails. Oh.
Colleen
00:21:23 – 00:21:27
No? I don't love a dash. I don't. What? You want it to be one word?
Colleen
00:21:27 – 00:21:28
Refine rails?
Aaron
00:21:29 – 00:21:32
Because then you gotta say refined dash rails.
Colleen
00:21:32 – 00:21:38
Oh, no. It's refined dash rails.com. Oh, did you go to refined dash rails? Weirdo. Hate that.
Colleen
00:21:38 – 00:21:43
That's terrible. You feel really strongly. Yeah. I hate that. That's awful.
Colleen
00:21:43 – 00:21:44
Refine rails. Whoop.
Aaron
00:21:44 – 00:21:48
Buy both. Okay. Refine and then dash rails.
Colleen
00:21:49 – 00:22:08
Anyway, I I think, like, maybe in the future, I'm moving away from my mic. I think maybe in the future, it makes sense to brand each product. So, like, to link I I get, like, refine rails, refine Laravel. That might make sense, but I don't think I don't know. I get I I don't I'm confused by the confusion, I think.
Aaron
00:22:09 – 00:22:09
I am too.
Colleen
00:22:09 – 00:22:18
Okay. Alright. So no action there. Just something to kinda think about as we continue to work on the website. Someone owns Refine Rails.
Colleen
00:22:19 – 00:22:24
Jerks. Sorry. Should I get the dot org? No. Okay.
Colleen
00:22:25 – 00:22:36
Anyway, distraction. Yeah. I feel like this is a distraction right now. And as we continue to iterate on the website and talk to more people, we can keep this in the back of our minds, but I don't feel like we need
Aaron
00:22:36 – 00:22:38
to take It's 100% not worth doing.
Colleen
00:22:38 – 00:22:39
Yeah. It's it's not
Aaron
00:22:39 – 00:22:39
right now.
Colleen
00:22:39 – 00:22:45
I feel, what do we need to do now? Okay. So we just need to do the sales. Think the sales That's
Aaron
00:22:45 – 00:22:46
the only thing we need
Colleen
00:22:46 – 00:22:50
to focus. That's what we need to focus on, talking to the customers and the sales.
Aaron
00:22:50 – 00:22:57
And I think Every yeah. Everything else is a distraction. We have a new landing page up, which hooray. We did it.
Colleen
00:22:57 – 00:23:01
Oh, man. I'm so proud of us. I'm not gonna lie. I'm so proud of that web page.
Aaron
00:23:01 – 00:23:21
And there are perhaps messaging things to fix there, but we it's, like, 5 times better than the old page. I think clearly communicates what the thing is. Is it targeting the right buyer in the right scenario? Maybe. I don't really know.
Aaron
00:23:21 – 00:23:31
You know, the first customer interview we had, the guy was like, oh, yeah. That's totally spoke to me. And, actually, Keith DM'd me this morning. I was like, hey. Do you have a new hammer stone page up?
Aaron
00:23:31 – 00:23:33
That is amazing. I love that.
Colleen
00:23:33 – 00:23:33
Nice.
Aaron
00:23:34 – 00:23:51
So point being, we have something that's better than it was, and it's good enough for now. And I think we can optimize that later after we learn from a bunch of people, like, what their use case is. I think we can write copy that's more targeted to that use
Colleen
00:23:52 – 00:24:01
case. I agree. I think forward customer interviews, product sell sales, like, this is the right path. Anything else? Anything else?
Colleen
00:24:02 – 00:24:04
No. Nope. Okay.
Aaron
00:24:04 – 00:24:05
We'll cut it there.
Me

Thanks for reading! My name is Aaron and I write, make videos, and generally try really hard.

If you ever have any questions or want to chat, I'm always on Twitter.

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