Aaron Francis

Ian & Aaron talk about Aaron's upcoming JS library, a new course idea, "AI Aaron Francis", Disney Adults, and a lot more. Sponsored by LaraJobs, & Screencasting.com. Interested in sponsoring Mostly Technical? Head to https://mostlytechnical.com/sponsor to learn more.

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Transcript

Aaron

00:00:00 – 00:00:03

Hello. Good morning. Welcome back.

Ian

00:00:03 – 00:00:04

Back on the mics.

Aaron

00:00:05 – 00:00:07

I think we what was it? Two weeks?

Ian

00:00:07 – 00:00:10

Yeah. A couple weeks. The little holiday preeve.

Aaron

00:00:10 – 00:00:15

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Reprieve, maybe.

Ian

00:00:16 – 00:00:17

Oh, it's the word you were looking for?

Aaron

00:00:17 – 00:00:20

Yeah. I don't know about that. But sure. Sure. Sure.

Aaron

00:00:20 – 00:00:22

How how how was the old holiday up there?

Ian

00:00:22 – 00:00:35

It was fine. A lot of crazy stuff going on. Had a lot of good weird health stuff. I don't know how hopefully, your health stuff was alright, but my health stuff was weird. So yeah.

Aaron

00:00:36 – 00:00:37

Are you okay?

Ian

00:00:37 – 00:00:41

I'm okay. Gallbladder ongoing gallbladder issues.

Aaron

00:00:41 – 00:00:43

How's that possible? You don't you don't have one.

Ian

00:00:43 – 00:00:44

I know. I know. It's crazy.

Aaron

00:00:44 – 00:00:46

It's it's phantom gallbladder syndrome.

Ian

00:00:47 – 00:00:51

Once you don't have a gallbladder here. We're gonna start by grossing out the listeners because I don't know.

Aaron

00:00:51 – 00:00:52

Grossing me out.

Ian

00:00:52 – 00:01:01

When you don't have a gallbladder, right, What happens is your liver's making bile. Right. Mm-mm. And normally the gallbladder would hold the bile. No.

Ian

00:01:01 – 00:01:10

And then release it. And when you eat, right. Basically, that's roughly how it works. So when you don't have gallbladder, the bile is just flowing into your intestines. Right.

Ian

00:01:10 – 00:01:23

Okay. Which is fine. And it does bile stuff that has to do. But when it go, if it goes through your small intestines, which normally reabsorbs it all, but now it's constantly having to deal with it. Some can get into your colon.

Ian

00:01:23 – 00:01:24

Colon doesn't like bile

Aaron

00:01:25 – 00:01:25

Mm-mm.

Ian

00:01:25 – 00:01:40

And anti bile. And that gives you intestinal issues. And so I had to figure that out. The this medicine, which I'd say the medicine, like, instantly cures it. Eventually, your body will, get used to this state, and then you shouldn't need this medicine.

Ian

00:01:41 – 00:01:47

Got some medicine for that. I have another freaky thing. My other weird thing is I had a cyst on my wrist.

Aaron

00:01:47 – 00:01:50

Oh, that's a fun little, like, Doctor Seuss kinda thing.

Ian

00:01:50 – 00:02:00

Yes. My wrist right here on my wrist popped up like a big I just looked down one day, and there is like a tumor looking thing on my wrist. I'm like, what the hell is that?

Aaron

00:02:00 – 00:02:05

And that with a cyst on your wrist, it's hard to make a fist. Because of the pain.

Ian

00:02:05 – 00:02:11

Oh, I go to the orthopedic associates, and they put a needle in there, and they suck out all the cyst juice.

Aaron

00:02:11 – 00:02:13

What is wrong with you, Ian?

Ian

00:02:13 – 00:02:23

I know. Falling apart. And, now it's I have to say, it wasn't totally instantly better. It was still kinda puffy, but now it's a few days later. It's like, oh, maybe it's, like, almost a week later.

Ian

00:02:24 – 00:02:31

And that's almost better. So I'm just trying to hang on here, man. It's rough. It's rough in the streets over here in New York.

Aaron

00:02:31 – 00:02:37

Okay. I get the gist. I I get the, yeah, I get the gist. You had a cyst on your wrist. I missed a cyst.

Aaron

00:02:37 – 00:02:43

Resist. Yeah. That's enough I think that's enough body talk.

Ian

00:02:43 – 00:02:44

There we go. Body

Aaron

00:02:44 – 00:02:51

talk over. Bile insists. Sounds fun. We had our first stitches, event. Alright.

Aaron

00:02:51 – 00:03:11

Our youngest our youngest daughter bonked her head. You know, we have, like, for the stairs, we have the, you know, the little gates that go across. So we're like, we're safe. But, you know, the stair has, like, a like, a post at the bottom, and the post is a square at the very bottom. And she fell and bonked her head on the square end

Ian

00:03:11 – 00:03:12

of the post.

Aaron

00:03:12 – 00:03:17

Yes. Mhmm. And so she had to get six stitches.

Ian

00:03:17 – 00:03:19

Wow. And it was, like, her forehead or something. Right? You have

Aaron

00:03:19 – 00:03:22

like It's right under forehead. Yeah. Yikes.

Ian

00:03:22 – 00:03:24

She got a little scar there probably,

Aaron

00:03:25 – 00:03:31

Yeah. Hopefully not. But, yes, possibly. Yeah. Not great.

Ian

00:03:32 – 00:03:33

Another parenting win.

Aaron

00:03:33 – 00:03:47

Another parenting win. And then also over the holidays, my parents got COVID, and so we didn't get to see them at all for Christmas. Oh, jeez. And Jasmine was out of town. She went back to Germany to, like, get her visa renewed or something.

Aaron

00:03:47 – 00:03:53

It's like, god. Killing me, man. Killing me. But we're we made it. We're out the other side.

Ian

00:03:53 – 00:03:56

See? You had some health stuff too. The health stuff.

Aaron

00:03:56 – 00:03:57

The health stuff.

Ian

00:03:57 – 00:03:58

I don't like this scene.

Aaron

00:03:58 – 00:04:00

I don't either. It's no good.

Ian

00:04:00 – 00:04:01

So she's doing alright, though?

Aaron

00:04:02 – 00:04:03

Yeah. She's doing fine. Yeah.

Ian

00:04:03 – 00:04:03

She's she's

Aaron

00:04:04 – 00:04:19

She handled it like a champ. She just was kinda surprised, and I came downstairs from putting the big kids to sleep. And Jennifer was freaking out. And there was, like, a big old gash on her forehead, but she was just kinda, like, looking around. And it's like, what is going on here?

Aaron

00:04:20 – 00:04:22

So, yeah, she's alright, though.

Ian

00:04:22 – 00:04:27

Oh my gosh. I know. Wow. Yeah. We we I don't think we've had many stitches.

Ian

00:04:28 – 00:04:37

Maybe once. Nothing too major on the stitches front. But, yeah, no fun. The bleed heavy bleeding of the Yeah. Child's head is not not

Aaron

00:04:37 – 00:04:38

It's not it's not ideal.

Ian

00:04:40 – 00:04:43

No, man. Alright. Well, you survived. Sounds like you're gonna through.

Aaron

00:04:43 – 00:04:44

Made it through.

Ian

00:04:45 – 00:04:47

Now you're ready for 2025?

Aaron

00:04:47 – 00:04:53

I am. I'm I am very ready. Did a big, you know, year end review post.

Ian

00:04:53 – 00:04:53

Got it

Aaron

00:04:53 – 00:05:02

all got it all out there and ready to start 2025. It's gonna be good. It's gonna be different. It's gonna be different.

Ian

00:05:02 – 00:05:05

Got some some changes already to the plan? Or

Aaron

00:05:05 – 00:05:11

Oh, just planning on not getting laid off, I guess, is the big one. Just, you know, gonna be a better year than last year. You'd

Ian

00:05:11 – 00:05:11

be laying

Aaron

00:05:11 – 00:05:12

yourself off

Ian

00:05:12 – 00:05:13

at that point.

Aaron

00:05:13 – 00:05:22

Unless Steve lays me off somehow. I'll be honest. I don't really understand, corporate controls or anything. But if I get fired, oh, that's bad. That's bad news.

Ian

00:05:22 – 00:05:30

I mean, it's not the worst news, technically. I mean, you still own half, so, like, you could not work there and still get half is the kind of thing.

Aaron

00:05:30 – 00:05:39

Yeah. I think if if if Steve fires me, it maybe is the worst news. That that that's just not great. Something's gone horribly wrong

Ian

00:05:39 – 00:05:41

if that happens. Yeah.

Aaron

00:05:41 – 00:05:54

So I think we're okay there. But, yeah, starting off starting off strong, got Laracon EU in just a couple of weeks, unfortunately. Yeah. You

Ian

00:05:54 – 00:05:57

gotta stop on the other side projects to build the side project that

Aaron

00:05:57 – 00:05:58

you're supposed

Ian

00:05:58 – 00:06:00

to present at Laracon EU.

Aaron

00:06:01 – 00:06:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

00:06:02 – 00:06:06

So bummed. I can't go to that. I've I've been trying to put an angle, but

Aaron

00:06:06 – 00:06:14

it's impossible. It's impossible. Are you supposed you're supposed to be like the international man of business, and yet you're just stuck up there in New York. It's all these kids

Ian

00:06:14 – 00:06:24

and their activities, and there's stuff going on that Sunday before. I can't it's the thing I can't get out of. I don't even want I wouldn't wanna get out of it, but it's like a thing that's there, and there's no working room.

Aaron

00:06:24 – 00:06:28

So In in case you're listening, Jamie, he he doesn't wanna get out of it.

Ian

00:06:28 – 00:06:30

Yeah. I'm not trying to get out.

Aaron

00:06:30 – 00:06:34

Yeah. He loves it. I think he wants to go to the thing. He loves to go

Ian

00:06:34 – 00:06:36

to the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

00:06:37 – 00:06:52

Yeah. So Lara Kanye is coming up at, like, sometime early February. Boy, it's possible that for the first time in my life, I've bit off more than I can chew. It's Woah. Possible.

Aaron

00:06:53 – 00:06:56

I'm not admitting to anything. It's possible.

Ian

00:06:56 – 00:07:01

Well, I'm just gonna go. You were talking about you were trying to become the no man. What happened to the no man?

Aaron

00:07:01 – 00:07:11

Oh, that's interesting. This is maybe this is maybe, historic. Maybe I said yes. I said yes to this last year. So this falls under the statute of limitations.

Aaron

00:07:11 – 00:07:22

I don't know what that means. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I submitted this talk in, like, June or something with this half baked idea, half written idea.

Aaron

00:07:22 – 00:07:36

It was fully like, the idea was pretty baked, but I hadn't written it all. And they accepted, and then it was like, oh, cool. Now what? I'll I'll work on it later. And then, you know, we had these two courses and this whole thing.

Ian

00:07:36 – 00:07:54

And My experience with speakers is they do not do the talk until far later than you would like them to do the talk. And you have tied in building a library Yeah. With your talk. So you really you really left your homework to the last minute a little bit.

Aaron

00:07:54 – 00:08:11

I did. And I also I I have a problem with Authority. In a way. But I have a I have a a problem with, people who leave the talk to the last minute. Like, I think it's I think it's super bad form to be like, oh, it's the night before.

Aaron

00:08:11 – 00:08:19

I guess I better start on my talk. I just think that is it's just poor behavior. Ideal. Yeah. It's not ideal.

Ian

00:08:19 – 00:08:33

If I ever did another conference, this is one of my things. I've I've considered doing this for the previous ones I've run, but I've never pulled the trigger. But if I ever did another one, I absolutely would do this, which is, like, you have to submit your talk, like, two weeks in advance. Yeah. Or more maybe even.

Ian

00:08:33 – 00:08:41

Like, we I gotta see it. I gotta know it exists. Like, you wanna tweak it the last couple weeks and change the title or do something fine. Whatever. I don't care about that.

Ian

00:08:41 – 00:09:04

But, like, the core of the talk is done and ready weeks in advance and good to go. Like, that would be that would be a thing I would do, I think. And then I could get a first pass on it too because sometimes, like, a low quality one sneaks in there, and then not you you hate to see that. So it's like it gives you a little time to, like, work with the person and be like, no. This is, like, not this isn't hitting the notes right.

Ian

00:09:04 – 00:09:11

Let's let's work through that part of it. So, yeah, that that definitely would be what I would do in the future. But, anyway, so you're trying to get it done here

Aaron

00:09:12 – 00:09:13

I'm trying to get it done.

Ian

00:09:13 – 00:09:13

Soon ish.

Aaron

00:09:13 – 00:09:33

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I've got this I've got this library, and, you know, I've showed it to a few people. And some people that we know, like, and trust have had some feedback on, you know, some of the directions, and I want to take that feedback into account, given who's providing it.

Aaron

00:09:33 – 00:10:06

And so some things have changed and it's been shuffled around, and, I tweeted this yesterday, but I've gone through the cycle of this is a terrible idea. This is a great idea. I've gone through the full cycle of that three or four, five times. And when I find when I knew that I think I finally had it, was when I showed Steve, who's a Vue developer and not really a not a Laravel developer at all. I showed showed it to Steve, and he was like, okay.

Aaron

00:10:06 – 00:10:25

Now you have my interest As a as a front end developer, now this is interesting to me, and I would I would consider using this. I'm like, Now we have found, like, we have found the nugget. Right. And so I'm just iterating on that. But, yeah, it's been a lot of it's been a lot of late nights.

Aaron

00:10:25 – 00:10:37

It's like, you know, get get into bed at 09:00 with the laptop and stay up till midnight and then wake up and do it again. Yeah. It's been it's been a lot, but I think we're getting somewhere more good.

Ian

00:10:37 – 00:10:47

Now this seems like a kind of substantial thing you're building. What's your thoughts? Like, this is, like, a thing that's going to require a lot of maintenance, presumably.

Aaron

00:10:47 – 00:10:47

Yeah.

Ian

00:10:47 – 00:10:48

So what's your thoughts

Aaron

00:10:48 – 00:11:06

there? Presumably. Yeah. So I talked to Steve about this a little bit, on Friday, and I think it is going to require a lot of maintenance. This could potentially become a a pretty big thing that, you know, try hard studios does.

Aaron

00:11:08 – 00:11:31

And so the question is, like, how do we make that how do we make that sustainable? There's, of course, if it catches on, all of this is, predicated on it catching on, which it might not. And if it doesn't catch on, that's great. If it catches on like wildfire, that's great. If, like, a hundred people love it and then are counting on me to support it, that's awful.

Ian

00:11:32 – 00:11:32

Right.

Aaron

00:11:32 – 00:11:35

So Yeah. We're really going for all or nothing here.

Ian

00:11:35 – 00:11:36

Right.

Aaron

00:11:36 – 00:11:45

So if y'all are lukewarm on it after you see it, please just lean towards we're not gonna use it. And that way, we're not stuck in this, you know, this this soft middle stuff.

Ian

00:11:45 – 00:11:59

Think that there's a little chicken and egg there? Right? Like, it's like, you know, it's like the first iteration is what it is, but it's like kind of the like ongoing marketing and development of it that sort of often leads

Aaron

00:11:59 – 00:11:59

to the

Ian

00:11:59 – 00:12:03

successful outcome. So it's, it might not be so clear, I guess, is my thinking that,

Aaron

00:12:04 – 00:12:04

Yes.

Ian

00:12:04 – 00:12:09

I mean, obviously, it might be clear people are like, this is stupid. Right? Like, no. Everybody's like, this is stupid.

Aaron

00:12:09 – 00:12:09

Right.

Ian

00:12:09 – 00:12:21

Great. That's like a clear you could just stop working on it. But yeah. It's like that. It's like some people think it's cool and you it's a little more of a middle ground of, like, well, does that mean we should keep going or not keep going?

Ian

00:12:21 – 00:12:23

Is it a not, you know, it's gonna be fuzzy.

Aaron

00:12:23 – 00:12:50

My hope is that it's abundantly clear one way or another. Yeah. And if a few people love it and are just, like, actively contributing and talking about it, then that's a that's a good sign because I agree it's gonna take time, for people to adopt it. But Yeah. So I talked to Steve about this, and, I historically have never had any sort of, like, GitHub sponsors thing.

Aaron

00:12:51 – 00:13:25

And that's something that we're considering now, and trying to do a different a little bit, different take on it and have, some more, like, business friendly options to, like, sponsor some of this development. Mhmm. Because between this and Sidecar and Solo, I have actual libraries that people use in their business. Right. And so I think it would be nice to be able to justify putting some more maintenance into those things and more development.

Aaron

00:13:25 – 00:13:42

Like, this is gonna take not only maintenance, but this is gonna take active new development. So we're talking about that and how to make that, like, feasible and sustainable. And I think we have a few good ideas. But, yeah, that's definitely that's definitely on my mind.

Ian

00:13:44 – 00:13:50

Mhmm. Yeah. I know in the past, you talked about having maybe at some point also having just an in house developer that works on

Aaron

00:13:50 – 00:13:50

Mhmm.

Ian

00:13:50 – 00:13:55

Open source things or whatnot. So that could be an element there to us too.

Aaron

00:13:55 – 00:14:02

Yeah. And depending on how the money shakes out, that is still very much on the table to have somebody help maintain it.

Ian

00:14:02 – 00:14:23

Now what do you would you wanna give us some of the juice on this, GitHub sponsorship angle? Because I've only ever really seen that work really literally only for Kayla, but, like, I don't know if I've ever really seen it work for anybody else. And he did, smart stuff with it by tying it into, like, basically that it wasn't it was sort of GitHub sponsorship in sheep's clothing, I would

Aaron

00:14:23 – 00:14:24

call it. Right?

Ian

00:14:24 – 00:14:25

Because it was like provider.

Aaron

00:14:25 – 00:14:26

Yeah. It was like,

Ian

00:14:26 – 00:14:36

you wanna buy this product called of the screencast, you have to, you know, be a subscriber. Right. So that was kind of how he sort of got people looped in there.

Aaron

00:14:36 – 00:14:51

Yes. I will say, I'm not ready to say everything because I don't I haven't figured it all out yet. But I will say it is more than just, goodness of your heart sponsor. Like, there is Right. There's an exchange of value that will be happening.

Aaron

00:14:51 – 00:14:57

And the value is not just like, you get more open source work from me. Like, no. No. No. That's not it.

Aaron

00:14:57 – 00:15:10

There will be some things that's, like, the people get back. And then more importantly, there will be some things that the businesses get back should they decide to, you know, sponsor in quotes, which really means they're gonna be buying something.

Ian

00:15:11 – 00:15:11

Yeah.

Aaron

00:15:11 – 00:15:30

So, yeah, that's the idea. I don't I think pure sponsorship out of, like, oh, the goodness of my heart. I'm gonna give this person $5 every month, is incredibly kind, but I don't wanna rely on that. And I feel like that that just runs out so quickly. People are like, wait.

Aaron

00:15:30 – 00:15:42

What am I doing? This guy's doing some kind of open source, and I'm paying him $5 a month for some reason. It's like Right. I don't understand that fully. And so I don't wanna rely on that for our business, you know?

Ian

00:15:42 – 00:15:46

Yeah. Yeah. And for businesses, you kinda have to deliver something because

Aaron

00:15:46 – 00:15:46

it's not

Ian

00:15:46 – 00:15:51

really easy for them to justify, like, we're just paying this open source guy. Do you own the code?

Aaron

00:15:51 – 00:15:54

Something that we already got? You're telling me to pay for it?

Ian

00:15:54 – 00:16:03

Yeah. And even just, like, mechanically, like, it's very difficult to, like, ex like, account for it even. It's like, what is this? What did we get for this? And the answer is literally nothing.

Ian

00:16:03 – 00:16:17

Like, we got nothing for this. There is no nothing in return. So you kinda have to create something that comes in return, even if it's, yeah, you just need something that's returned. So we bought that. We are buying we are paying this every month and we are buying next Right.

Ian

00:16:17 – 00:16:25

That we get for it. It's, just when you have to justify it and account for it and all that stuff. Otherwise, it's like a weirdo donation thing, which is

Aaron

00:16:25 – 00:16:25

Yeah.

Ian

00:16:25 – 00:16:32

Something like businesses aren't really too keen on usually. Okay. Alright. So Yeah. Stuff's happening.

Ian

00:16:32 – 00:16:33

So that's gonna

Aaron

00:16:33 – 00:16:35

be good. Stuff. Lot of stuff is happening.

Ian

00:16:36 – 00:16:40

So two more than you can choose. So what else you got? So you got that. You got solo.

Aaron

00:16:40 – 00:16:44

Oh, this this the the the library is the thing

Ian

00:16:44 – 00:16:45

I'm talking about.

Aaron

00:16:45 – 00:17:04

Yeah. For sure. For sure. There have been there have been so many I was reflecting on this, as I'm wants to do. There have been so many things I've done in the past maybe, month or two, from, like, a development programming side that, I'm just fully not qualified to do and I have never done before.

Aaron

00:17:04 – 00:17:44

I mean, all of the all of the solo stuff, not qualified to do any of that. Yeah. And then with this project, I'm like, I had to figure out how to manually invalidate a single file in the op cache, and I was like, why am I doing this? This is not something I should have to do. And it took me the amount of time that it took me to figure out that it was the op cache holding on to the file that was causing the problem because this this library has interactions between, the front end, the Vite server, h I mean, PHP, Laravel, like, all across the stack.

Ian

00:17:45 – 00:17:46

Got it. It's tentacles in there.

Aaron

00:17:46 – 00:18:19

To figure out who's holding on to what for too long and then finally realize it's op cash? Like, that was a huge surprise to me, and I went down so many rabbit holes. And so just the amount of stuff I've had to, like, learn and do for the first time in the past two months, has been incredible, but also so fun. Like, I'm having more fun doing, programming these days than I have in a while because I haven't done I, you know, I haven't done this level in a in a long time.

Ian

00:18:20 – 00:18:22

Yeah. You're you're deep in there now.

Aaron

00:18:22 – 00:18:24

I'm super deep in there. It's so fun.

Ian

00:18:25 – 00:18:47

So what do you even think about like, I feel like with this library, it feels, like, unfortunate in that, like, the I feel like the for you and your business, like, the bang for the buck of this is the content and there is no content right now. Now maybe afterwards there will be content. But if it turns out not to be a thing, then there was no content at all, basically.

Aaron

00:18:47 – 00:18:47

It's

Ian

00:18:47 – 00:19:07

kind of like a couple months down the drain kind of thing. So, I mean, I'm sure there'd be stuff you could spin out of it and stuff you've learned and whatever. There'll be still be still some, pieces you can pull out, but there's not the fun, like, as I go along like, with solo, it's like, as I go along, here's what I'm learning. Here's what I'm doing. Let's jump on a video, like, all that kind of stuff.

Ian

00:19:07 – 00:19:11

So but I guess that's kind of, like, the sacrifice for the surprise.

Aaron

00:19:12 – 00:19:31

Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of an open question as to whether or not that was a good idea. I think I think the big reveal is going to be a lot splashier Right. And could could have a greater effect, because nobody knows what's going on here.

Aaron

00:19:31 – 00:19:54

Right. I think that could that could work. But, yeah, in terms of, like, capitalizing the most for the business, I think it continues to be true that the absolute best way to make money for us is to just produce as many courses as possible. That just that just seems to be true. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:19:56 – 00:20:13

We don't always do the thing that would make the most money right now. I think there's some and this is where it gets murky and is hard, like, kinda hard for me to I don't know. It can it can become discouraging as, okay. But what about long term? Right?

Aaron

00:20:13 – 00:21:06

So if we're trying to build something that's gonna last for five or ten years or, like, make us rich in five years and then we can retire, what how do we how do we make sure that we're investing in long term assets or, like, long plays? You know? Even yesterday, somebody that on Twitter that I have I have grown to to like and we're, like, we're friends on Twitter said something about AI and how it may actually replace me. And I didn't fully know what it meant, but I got the vibe that he was talking about, like, educational material could be could be on its way out. And if there's an existential threat to our business, that is probably it, is that people are gonna stop, which I don't think is is a good thing for people to do, but I think people are gonna stop trying to learn things and just start asking the AI to do the things.

Aaron

00:21:06 – 00:21:25

And so that is that is an outside possibility. That is the, like, existential threat. And so trying to figure out how do we make a lot of money in the short term, but also how do we make a lot of money in the long term is kind of the struggle or, like, the tension that I'm dealing with constantly.

Ian

00:21:25 – 00:21:29

Do you think open source libraries are the path to that long term, though?

Aaron

00:21:29 – 00:21:36

I don't think that open source is ever a path to, like, direct money.

Ian

00:21:37 – 00:21:37

Yeah.

Aaron

00:21:37 – 00:21:57

But I do think that, I do think that this is a like, this can carve out a corner of the ecosystem that we are, like, leaders of, if that makes sense. Ringing. Yeah. And so I think that is directionally correct. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:21:58 – 00:22:10

There are probably there there are definitely more direct ways to make money than, doing an open source library. That much is

Ian

00:22:10 – 00:22:13

for sure. Right. That that's definitely true.

Aaron

00:22:13 – 00:22:14

That that part we know. Interesting.

Ian

00:22:15 – 00:22:17

Okay. Alright. You can

Aaron

00:22:17 – 00:22:20

be a no man. It's the new year. The gift is over.

Ian

00:22:20 – 00:22:21

Yeah. No. The yes man. Yes man.

Aaron

00:22:21 – 00:22:24

That was a one that was a one episode only thing.

Ian

00:22:24 – 00:22:28

Yeah. Once a year. And at the, end of the year episode, you get

Aaron

00:22:28 – 00:22:30

yes man. The year episode, you'll be the yes man.

Ian

00:22:30 – 00:22:36

No. I don't I don't know. I don't know if I have a strong feeling either way. I think it'll be interesting to see what happens to this library. Yeah.

Ian

00:22:36 – 00:23:13

The more courses thing, I think it's probably true, but I don't know. Hard to say. I mean, obviously, you guys you guys just going off and building some SaaS or something like that, I think is fairly risky. The the, like, the idea of, you replacing yourself is sort of intriguing to me. Like, I kinda took that person's AI quick along the lines of, like, AI video and dynamic course generation or something along those lines, or like chat GBT.

Ian

00:23:13 – 00:23:26

Right? Like, Mhmm. But building full course, not just giving you the answers, but, like, could you use it to, you know, structure a full course, but that was tailored to whatever a company. Interesting. Interesting.

Ian

00:23:27 – 00:23:31

Some other element or just the person and what they're looking for out of it or whatever.

Aaron

00:23:32 – 00:23:38

And it's entirely possible. I read my own fears into their comment, and that's not gonna be as well. So you you you might be right.

Ian

00:23:38 – 00:23:45

I don't know. But either way, I mean, that's sort of an interesting world. Right? It's like, well, what does courses what are courses in the future? And Right.

Ian

00:23:45 – 00:23:55

That would be something you'd be more in line with. Right? It's like, well, if the future is gonna be less of, like and you've even had these issues. Like, how do you have more Aaron Francis airtime? Right?

Ian

00:23:55 – 00:23:59

It's, like, hard. It is hard. Maybe we need AI Aaron Francis.

Aaron

00:24:00 – 00:24:12

Boy, but that just that just, like, goes against the whole brand, doesn't it? I just I have, like, an emotional, unease about doing that. Just feels so icky.

Ian

00:24:13 – 00:24:19

You're trying super hard when there's thousands of phones of you, and you're all trying really hard to get all that leverage.

Aaron

00:24:20 – 00:24:28

I think if there's anything that we wanna use AI for more, it is everything except the on camera work.

Ian

00:24:28 – 00:24:29

Right.

Aaron

00:24:29 – 00:24:33

All of the awful process leading up to that.

Ian

00:24:33 – 00:24:38

I mean, yeah, it's read everything that you go off and read. Right. Yeah. It's interesting. I don't know.

Ian

00:24:39 – 00:24:41

There's something there though. Something there.

Aaron

00:24:41 – 00:24:42

Something where, what are you thinking?

Ian

00:24:42 – 00:24:52

I don't know. It's like the full idea of like dynamic course creation tailored to the person in some way. Forget the video part. Like, even if it's not video, you know, there's something intriguing there. Like, you could see that.

Ian

00:24:52 – 00:25:15

Or even companies, like, we want to have internal system. Like, we have all these internal systems that have been coming to do all kinds of stuff and documented all kinds of places. Like, I don't know. It's like you're in there sucking up all that stuff and then creating courses, like onboardings and Mhmm. Job specific courses and whatever, getting everybody the stuff they need so humans don't have to build all that stuff.

Ian

00:25:15 – 00:25:27

And then the bigger problem with humans building is then it always ends up out of date, and now you have all these out of date, like, documentation and course Agree. Yep. I don't know. Corporate training. Aaron Francis corporate training.

Aaron

00:25:27 – 00:25:40

Listen. If Microsoft or Meta or Google wants me to do a corporate training We don't know how to say this more because I am for sale. I hope that that is clear. Yes.

Ian

00:25:40 – 00:25:43

You're like this and your image are are available for the right price.

Aaron

00:25:43 – 00:25:53

Absolutely. Yes. If you wanna if you wanna bury me in some video a hundred levels deep inside the borg, I will do it. Just pay me a bunch of money.

Ian

00:25:53 – 00:25:58

No. No. Not that. They wanna take your likeness and make AI Aaron Francis.

Aaron

00:25:58 – 00:25:58

That is the

Ian

00:25:58 – 00:26:02

base of the Microsoft That's fine.

Aaron

00:26:02 – 00:26:15

As long as it as long as it never escapes the Internet, I'm fine. No matter how hard it tries to convince you to let it out of the box, as long as it stays in the Internet, I don't care. Man. Give me $5,000,000. I'll do it.

Ian

00:26:15 – 00:26:20

The end of civilization is a giant Aaron Francis head in Times

Aaron

00:26:20 – 00:26:21

Square. By me?

Ian

00:26:21 – 00:26:29

Yeah. It's like, I'm so I've taken over. I'm taking everything offline to protect you humans from yourselves. You're all just human

Aaron

00:26:29 – 00:26:31

to each other. I'm in charge now.

Ian

00:26:31 – 00:26:34

Just you with a big smile being like,

Aaron

00:26:34 – 00:26:34

oh, man.

Ian

00:26:34 – 00:26:43

I decided to try really hard. Yeah. And in order to do that, I'm gonna have to use all the energy available to the humans for myself as the AI system.

Aaron

00:26:44 – 00:26:49

Oh, man. Just a little casual Antichrist humor. You know? That's good fun. Good.

Aaron

00:26:49 – 00:26:53

Good fun. Oh, that's great. Here's something.

Ian

00:26:53 – 00:26:54

Yeah.

Aaron

00:26:54 – 00:26:56

We talked about intro to sequel. Right?

Ian

00:26:56 – 00:26:57

Mhmm.

Aaron

00:26:57 – 00:27:08

As a as a course? Yeah. How do you feel about, just as a title? I just want first reactions. So this is this is adjacent.

Aaron

00:27:09 – 00:27:15

This is this is intro to sequel adjacent. First reaction course title equal for marketers.

Ian

00:27:15 – 00:27:16

Oh, I don't like that.

Aaron

00:27:16 – 00:27:18

No. I

Ian

00:27:18 – 00:27:19

don't think Tell me.

Aaron

00:27:19 – 00:27:20

Tell me.

Ian

00:27:20 – 00:27:41

I mean, I guess it depends on if you're what you're talking about exactly. But if you are saying it's just the intro to SQL course, basically, but with that title, I don't I don't like that. If it's like you're going to build it around tools that marketers use that allow SQL access, is that actually a thing? I don't know. Like, those HubSpot apps that you access.

Aaron

00:27:41 – 00:27:45

We'll do intro to SQL that's just like vanilla. We're all Okay. Plain. I see. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:27:45 – 00:27:50

Then we'll have spin offs. A slight spin off that is intro to SQL for marketers.

Ian

00:27:50 – 00:27:54

Okay. That is more yes. I I I could get behind that.

Aaron

00:27:55 – 00:27:58

Because the thought is we're gonna do intro to SQL no matter what.

Ian

00:27:58 – 00:27:58

Sure.

Aaron

00:27:58 – 00:28:35

And to get to get to intro to SQL for marketers, it's like a half step. Change some change some examples, change some, you know, data structures, that kind of thing, potentially go into some of the tools that marketers use a little more often. Like, we could even go into, like, the I forgot I forget what they call it in Stripe, but the Stripe, like, you know, data warehouse thing where you can write SQL esque stuff. But some some stuff like that and do a second course that is intro to SQL, but speaks to people who are, like, marketing data analysts.

Ian

00:28:37 – 00:28:48

I guess I'd there's tons of, like, marketers who are quasi Internet famous out there. I think it would probably be worthwhile to, like, actually talk to some of them, you know, just even offline or

Aaron

00:28:48 – 00:28:50

That's where one that's where this

Ian

00:28:50 – 00:29:04

came from. Okay. Because I just feel like is there I just feel like, man, how many marketers have access to a SQL database? I feel like that is pretty low and as well as pretty hard to get access to.

Aaron

00:29:05 – 00:29:39

So where this came from where this came from is I talked to somebody last week who's, big in the Shopify space, and, she's also a part of, Jason Calacanis' launch university or launch whatever startup accelerator. Yeah. And she was telling me that constantly, the founders and the people in charge of, like, growth are asking questions about SQL, how to do stuff with SQL, that kind of stuff. So We got it we got it we got a finger wag. Tell me.

Ian

00:29:39 – 00:30:07

Yes. Because this is this that was my kind of initial thought as part of it. It's like, I don't it's from when you say for marketers, I think of somebody who's the CMO or a a official marketing person. And I think at a, you know, at a big established company, I think those people just don't have access to the database. But if it's really more like SQL for founders, marketing, that's not a title, but like

Aaron

00:30:07 – 00:30:07

That's a great title.

Ian

00:30:08 – 00:30:31

You know what I'm saying? Like, where it's like, yes, you're a startup and you are doing marketing as the founder or maybe there is like a CMO, but it's like you're in a startup environment, so they have access to the database because they can just walk over to Bob and log into the server or whatever. Like, that person does have access to the database. And so that seems more direct to me. I don't know if there's enough of them though.

Ian

00:30:31 – 00:30:41

I guess that would be my, a little bit of a concern, but, I, yeah, I guess there's a distinction to me between, like, an actual, like, professional marketer

Aaron

00:30:41 – 00:30:41

Mhmm.

Ian

00:30:42 – 00:30:56

Who considers themselves a marketer only, that person versus, like, yeah, somebody who's more a startup y, bootstrappy, founder y, who wants to figure out, like, the break queries. So you're getting these trial sign ups and, like Mhmm.

Aaron

00:30:56 – 00:30:57

How

Ian

00:30:57 – 00:31:00

do I track that? How do I put those into some kind of cohorts or something and

Aaron

00:31:00 – 00:31:00

Yeah.

Ian

00:31:00 – 00:31:05

16. Analyze the data in some way. So, yeah, that that could be interesting.

Aaron

00:31:07 – 00:31:16

Okay. That's good. That's a good first take. Yeah. So when this person was telling me about it, I was thinking, boy, this is exactly intro to SQL, but with different branding and different examples.

Aaron

00:31:16 – 00:31:17

Right. And so

Ian

00:31:18 – 00:31:22

And that's an experiment. Yeah. Like, I mean, even even just as an experiment. Right? Like, who cares?

Ian

00:31:22 – 00:31:41

Like, it's not, like, gonna be a ton of work to do it. So even if you did it and it's like you spend a week or two, you know, filling in the gaps with some Mhmm. Marketing specific videos and, you know, rejiggling things a bit. I think that's definitely just a cool experiment given the sort of time trade off involved. There's gonna be pretty Mhmm.

Ian

00:31:42 – 00:31:48

Minimal. So yeah. I mean, obviously, repurposing these things in some way would be really cool.

Aaron

00:31:48 – 00:31:51

Yes. And very necessary, I think.

Ian

00:31:51 – 00:32:15

Yeah. And even if they don't even if the rebrand repurposed ones don't perform as well as the original base models, it's like, who cares? Like, if you add Right. Your total revenue for a couple weeks work, great. Like, if it makes a reasonable amount of money over years, because, you know, every couple months, you know, every month there's a couple thousand extra dollars even coming in, but just over years.

Ian

00:32:15 – 00:32:16

Right?

Aaron

00:32:16 – 00:32:17

It's not it's not bad. Yeah.

Ian

00:32:17 – 00:32:36

That's not bad. So, for two weeks work, you'd take that. So I think that's and then every once in a while, you it that just gives you more marketing surface of, like Right. Maybe you hit one that takes off on its own because it was just a better marketing proposition than the base course of, like, intro to SQL, which is maybe generic or whatever. Blah blah blah.

Ian

00:32:36 – 00:32:38

So, yeah, I like that.

Aaron

00:32:38 – 00:32:40

I know there's something there. There's something there.

Ian

00:32:40 – 00:32:42

Yeah. I think so. I think so.

Aaron

00:32:42 – 00:32:43

Really turned that one around.

Ian

00:32:43 – 00:32:44

Idea. Yeah.

Aaron

00:32:44 – 00:32:45

Oh, jeez.

Ian

00:32:45 – 00:32:47

No. I like that. I like that.

Aaron

00:32:47 – 00:32:50

I didn't start out great, but we got there. Okay.

Ian

00:32:50 – 00:32:53

I don't know when you're gonna have the time to do these things, Aaron. It's the time.

Aaron

00:32:53 – 00:32:58

I don't know, man. The time. We gotta have more of the time.

Ian

00:32:58 – 00:33:06

I wanna I so the other day, I found out that ChachiPT lets you it builds graphs now, which I didn't know that you could tell it to graph something and it could graph it. So That's

Aaron

00:33:06 – 00:33:07

kinda cool.

Ian

00:33:07 – 00:33:11

That's pretty cool. It's very useful. Because I always wanna build graphs. I go into Excel. I try to do the graph.

Ian

00:33:11 – 00:33:19

I try to build some stupid pivot table or something. It's all a disaster, and I'm trying to pick the right range or row. I don't know. It's, like, it's Who who knows? I know.

Ian

00:33:19 – 00:33:39

Who knows? It feels like it shouldn't be as complicated as it always ends up being. But, so I guess this is, like you know, this is obviously our standard shtick to some degree, but I was thinking about you because it was like so I just as a test, I, graph the yearly revenue for HelpSpot. K. And it's just twenty years.

Ian

00:33:39 – 00:33:50

Right? And it's just like My lord. Tick, tick, tick, tick, like, up. But, you know, there was, like, one or two down years, but, like, mostly it's just, like, up to Yeah. And I'm like, this is just twenty years of just grinding on the same one thing.

Aaron

00:33:50 – 00:33:51

I don't have that in me.

Ian

00:33:51 – 00:34:08

That does reinforce to me that whole, like, you just show up every day and work on the same thing and, like, then that's how you get these results. But at the same time, I mean, definitely, I've I've I've had my own side adventures and stuff. At some point, you can't actually do it for twenty years. It makes you insane. So you have to go off on these things that

Aaron

00:34:08 – 00:34:08

Yeah.

Ian

00:34:09 – 00:34:25

In my case, anyway, have never really worked, but it's like a mental reset. And then I come back and, you know, I'm ready to do health plus stuff again. So but there is this idea of, like, the grinding on things leading. It does Yes. Is something about putting in the effort, the ten thousand hours, all that stuff.

Ian

00:34:27 – 00:34:46

There's something. There's something there. So I think it's good that you keep your mind in the course zone, as well as the other stuff. Because, too, I think that, like, even what we're just talking about, like, maybe there's gonna be other things in the course world that aren't just you and your face Yes. You know, making a course.

Ian

00:34:47 – 00:34:54

But, obviously things like course platforms or whatever. Right. There's all the standard sassy stuff, but other stuff we don't even know. Who knows? Right?

Ian

00:34:54 – 00:35:06

AI Aaron Francis or whatever. It could be anything. But when you're, like, in the direction, the same direction for a long time, I do think you get a deeper understanding that is potentially beneficial.

Aaron

00:35:07 – 00:35:36

I think our meta direction, our meta same direction and courses are one expression or one way to capitalize on that is, continue to build the audience. That is that is the meta direction. So if there's anything that encompasses courses and open source and YouTube and Twitter, it's that. It's just, like, continue to do good stuff and talk about it and bring people along. And, eventually, we trust it'll all work out.

Aaron

00:35:36 – 00:35:49

That's kind of, like, the the overarching principle. But, yeah, the currently, the best expression of that is sell courses for US dollars. That's that's the best that's the best way we've found to capitalize on that so far.

Ian

00:35:49 – 00:36:01

How how does, like, like, live streaming solo stuff and things like that, how has that increased the audience, do you think? Like, have you seen, like, tangible increases, you think, or is it

Aaron

00:36:01 – 00:36:17

is it beta Oh, no. It's so hard for me to to know. Yeah. Calculate that. I mean, if we look at just, like, Twitter followers have continued to grow and maybe increase, the the rate at which they're growing.

Aaron

00:36:17 – 00:36:52

YouTube has been pretty stagnant because I haven't put out, like, a proper video in a in a little while. I've done some livestream stuff, but not, like, a recorded video in a little while. I think for solo specifically, I think it's really like, it's really found a a foothold. And so continuing to push on that, I think, is going to be a good use of time, with hopes that it starts to become people's de facto way of, you know, running Laravel locally. That would be that would be the goal.

Aaron

00:36:53 – 00:37:13

And if that if that happens, well, I'm in a pretty good spot to capitalize on that in one way or another. Right. So, yeah, it's hard for me to quantify. And I maybe it's not hard. I just don't do it in terms of, like, I don't wanna become super metrics driven.

Aaron

00:37:13 – 00:37:36

I just wanna, like, be headed the right direction. And I can make tweaks along the way. Like, sometimes I'll stream for a while and be like, that was a huge waste of my time. And so I've gotta figure out how to make every discreet action more valuable. But in terms of, like, how many followers do I get per stream, I have no clue.

Ian

00:37:36 – 00:37:43

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not necessarily per stream, but the idea of, like, if the audience is the primary currency currency we're measuring, then that

Aaron

00:37:43 – 00:37:46

One should keep track of that. Should be something to

Ian

00:37:46 – 00:37:47

keep track of.

Aaron

00:37:47 – 00:37:49

You make an interesting point. Yeah.

Ian

00:37:50 – 00:37:57

So I have something along those lines. I I had I wanna talk about. I don't know if you heard, Caleb's podcast from yesterday, I think. So it was like

Aaron

00:37:57 – 00:37:58

Oh, yeah. All of them.

Ian

00:37:58 – 00:38:00

Oh, okay. You're up to date from yesterday.

Aaron

00:38:00 – 00:38:01

I'm up to date. Lot of driving.

Ian

00:38:01 – 00:38:02

So You know?

Aaron

00:38:03 – 00:38:03

But I

Ian

00:38:03 – 00:38:13

had this whole interesting thought because it's like so Caleb Porzio is doing flux, obviously. And so he's building this date picker. And so the No

Aaron

00:38:13 – 00:38:14

business dad. Here he comes.

Ian

00:38:15 – 00:38:30

Business dad. Had some had some problems with Yeah. Part of the approach of this because it's like, he's basically not using any outside libraries. Right? And so obviously a calendar and a date picker have a lot of date math and stuff going on.

Ian

00:38:30 – 00:38:41

Right? Yep. And all of this date logic has already been done. Many libraries that are very, very popular, very well maintained, all this stuff. Right?

Aaron

00:38:41 – 00:38:41

Yep.

Ian

00:38:42 – 00:38:46

And he's like, I'm not using any of this. And it seemed like his main Man man after my

Aaron

00:38:46 – 00:38:47

own heart, but back on. That's why

Ian

00:38:47 – 00:39:00

I wanted to talk to you about this. So it's he hasn't, like, been explicit about this in at least I've heard, but I think I guess his main, you know, he doesn't like the size ads and kind of the dependency. Right?

Aaron

00:39:00 – 00:39:01

Yep. I buy that.

Ian

00:39:02 – 00:39:15

Which to me, I mean, I right there, I do have a beef with, like, I I couldn't ever care less about the size of any code ever. We are so far past the size of code being a thing. I don't I don't really get why devs still even think about it. It couldn't be less relevant.

Aaron

00:39:15 – 00:39:15

I don't either.

Ian

00:39:16 – 00:39:21

But Yeah. It's, like, totally irrelevant to me. It could be 10 megabytes. I don't care. Whatever.

Ian

00:39:21 – 00:39:28

Shove it in there. So pop. Yeah. So, but the bigger issue is that, like, people have already done all this math and this, data analysis. Right?

Ian

00:39:28 – 00:39:44

Like, it already exists and it's debugged and working. Right? And so you are now reinventing the wheel of ma you know, date mathematics, which seems very, very complicated and potentially hazardous. Right? And so so I'm like, okay.

Ian

00:39:44 – 00:40:01

That seems like, maybe not the decision I would make for sure. It's like the what I what I want out of flux is this date picker, but what's getting a lot of time spent on it is reinventing the wheel that already exists of how to tell the the difference between two dates and whatever, all that stuff. K. So that's my default

Aaron

00:40:01 – 00:40:05

thing, which This is a heck of a lead up. I don't know. That's why we haven't got to the question.

Ian

00:40:05 – 00:40:08

Could have guessed my my, my thoughts on that. I'm part of it. But

Aaron

00:40:09 – 00:40:12

There's no guessing required. Yeah. It's very obvious.

Ian

00:40:12 – 00:40:14

So with that

Aaron

00:40:14 – 00:40:15

being said

Ian

00:40:15 – 00:40:45

With that being said, I was then thinking about it from his perspective in particular. It's sort of interesting because, really, is any of this have to do with the code at all, or is it just and I don't know if you'd actively think about this way, but is it really that it's just marketing? And by him talking about the process constantly of reinventing date picking and mathematics, That is the marketing for the product. Right? It's like he has tied the marketing to Flux.

Ian

00:40:45 – 00:40:53

He's not doing a lot of other stuff. There's no SEO. Right? It's pretty much like his podcast, his Twitter feed, you know, Laracon Talks, whatever. That kind of thing.

Ian

00:40:53 – 00:41:11

So in that regard, it's like, well, spending a month or two rebuilding a thing that already exists, but then to be able to talk through the analysis of it all as you go, is the marketing for the product. Right? And the geeks are into that. They wanna hear about it, but I'm listening to this date stuff. Right?

Ian

00:41:11 – 00:41:19

And, yeah. So that's the marketing. So doing that work is the marketing. So I don't know. What do you what do you think about all that?

Ian

00:41:19 – 00:41:24

That then makes it potentially justifiable in my mind because it's not about the code. It's actually marketing.

Aaron

00:41:25 – 00:41:34

Okay. Two lines of reasoning. One is, yes. I think this is marketing. I'm talking about it is marketing.

Aaron

00:41:34 – 00:41:34

Right.

Ian

00:41:34 – 00:41:34

So I

Aaron

00:41:34 – 00:41:58

think that is that is before the fork in lines of reasoning. Now the fork in the lines of reasoning will will take for will hold constant that, yes, it is marketing. The fork becomes is he only rebuilding this so that he can do marketing, or is he rebuilding this for some, baser truth and he's taking advantage of it to use it as marketing? And I think it's the second one. One.

Aaron

00:41:58 – 00:42:22

I think he's re I think he's reimplementing everything. He's rebuilding the universe from scratch because it will meet his needs better. It will be better in his opinion and in mine. When he's finished, his users will like it more. And because that is true, he happens to get two months worth of podcasts about it, about how date date picking is hard.

Aaron

00:42:22 – 00:42:35

I think the thing that is not true is that he was like, man. I gotta do some marketing. Well, reinventing date picking seems hard, and I could talk about it for a long time, so I'll just do that.

Ian

00:42:36 – 00:42:36

I agree.

Aaron

00:42:36 – 00:42:51

So now the question is, is it is it is, you know, the juice worth the squeeze? Right. I don't know. I I really don't. I think he knows what he's working towards, and I I I don't really.

Aaron

00:42:51 – 00:43:16

Like, I don't have a good grasp of, like, the date picker ecosystem. I I don't really even have a good grasp of, like, how flex is bundled and why people may or may not care about bundle sizes and what people need out of a date picker. So that part, I don't know. The the thing that I do know is that it seems exhausting to build a component library. I see these popping up everywhere.

Aaron

00:43:16 – 00:43:23

You know? Yeah. Friend friend of the show, Brian Castle, from, whatever RIP their podcast was called.

Ian

00:43:23 – 00:43:23

Oh, RIP.

Aaron

00:43:23 – 00:43:28

Such a shame. We hate to hear that. I guess fifteen years is enough, but we do hate to

Ian

00:43:28 – 00:43:29

hear that. Years, whatever it was. Yeah.

Aaron

00:43:29 – 00:43:54

He's building one for Rails. It's just like everybody's building a component library, and that part seems like, boy, we've got a lot of these now, and it sure seems like a heck of a lot of work. Right. Because I think most people and I think Caleb is, finishing out the part that most people never get to. I think most people do, like, the first eight components, and they're like, ah, a component library.

Aaron

00:43:54 – 00:43:59

And then people are like, hey. How do I do this? Like, woah, brother, that's a good question.

Ian

00:43:59 – 00:43:59

Right.

Aaron

00:43:59 – 00:44:12

And so I think Caleb is, like, going the whole way. Yeah. Surprising no one. But, boy, component libraries sounds awful. Sounds so bad, especially in the world of shad.

Aaron

00:44:12 – 00:44:13

You know? Right.

Ian

00:44:13 – 00:44:18

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. God, shad. That's a whole thing.

Aaron

00:44:18 – 00:44:19

I know. I know you hate to

Ian

00:44:19 – 00:44:21

chat. Yeah.

Aaron

00:44:21 – 00:44:31

I know. There is Shaggy and Vue. I'm not sure it's entirely, on the same footing. Yeah, but, yeah, it seems I mean. It's

Ian

00:44:32 – 00:44:42

That's where that's sort of interesting to me because it does stay in the, like, you can just stay in Laravel Blade and not have to get into React and View, which is, like, to me, the main value proposition

Aaron

00:44:42 – 00:44:43

Agreed.

Ian

00:44:43 – 00:44:53

Which is in that zone, it's like, I think if you niche it down enough, right, then it's like, well, there's nothing in that zone. It's like, yes. There are component libraries everywhere. If you're just like, that's your main thing. There's a zillion competitors.

Ian

00:44:54 – 00:44:59

But then if you narrow down, it's like, well, what about for Laravel Blade? There's actually, like, not many competitors.

Aaron

00:44:59 – 00:44:59

Mhmm.

Ian

00:44:59 – 00:45:22

And if you're livewire, now you're down to, like, just I think there's, like, you know, one or two open source ones and flux and that kinda thing. So, that's all like, you know, we niche down like that. It can be valuable, especially if you have the audience and there's a still sufficient size group of people in that in that world. But yeah. And there's, like, different layers to, like, what could be pulled in to build a date picker.

Ian

00:45:22 – 00:45:34

Right? There's, like, the moment and luxe or whatever those right? That's, like, the the baseline time stuff. But then there's, like, I'm sure there's just whole date pickers that are skinnable, right, or whatever. And you could you could go that route.

Ian

00:45:34 – 00:45:36

I don't see him like, that's probably

Aaron

00:45:37 – 00:45:38

Yeah. He's not gonna do that. Like,

Ian

00:45:38 – 00:45:45

he's not gonna do that. Although I think that's how he's gonna pull that works. Right? I'm pretty sure most of Shad stuff is just like, we just took whole things from other places.

Aaron

00:45:45 – 00:45:54

It's all Radix Put it together. Radix UI or something. Radix primitives or something like that. Who knows? But, yeah, he could have pulled in select two for the drop down.

Aaron

00:45:54 – 00:45:58

He, you know, built his own. So there's no chance he's pulling in something that's just, like, skinnable.

Ian

00:45:59 – 00:45:59

Right.

Aaron

00:45:59 – 00:46:08

What is what is your take given all of that? Should he should he be spending all his time doing this? Also, he's definitely listening, so be careful what you say.

Ian

00:46:09 – 00:46:32

I think, you know, he hasn't been if if to me, there's, like, if the pulling in a moment or something like that would have saved a good amount of time, I think he should have done that. Okay. Because I don't think there's a lot of bang for the buck in, like, rediscovering every bug with, you know, weird time days. Locales and date, you know, time zones and whatever. Like, there's a lot of stuff.

Ian

00:46:32 – 00:46:56

Now those libraries also include a lot of stuff. JavaScript is advancing. I'm sure the inter the default date time stuff is probably evolved and that those libraries have a lot of bug fixes for things that are no longer bugs or, that create functions that now just exist natively or whatever. Right. So there's probably like a lot of that stuff in those libraries that he's able to avoid.

Ian

00:46:56 – 00:47:14

But again, to me, it's kind of irrelevant. It's just like some extra code that's not really used in your case or, and maybe would be useful in your case potentially because like maybe now it supports like something a little farther back or whatever. Which is always a little bit of fact. I mean, component library at the end of the day, it's not even the person buying it. That's the issue.

Ian

00:47:14 – 00:47:15

It's their customers.

Aaron

00:47:15 – 00:47:15

Right.

Ian

00:47:15 – 00:47:24

So like if you make that browser requirement too tight, then that really hurts the the component library because now your customers' customers

Aaron

00:47:25 – 00:47:28

have to be Now all your help spot users have to be Yeah.

Ian

00:47:28 – 00:47:42

So that's a pretty big requirement. So I would probably go that would be my sweet spot, probably. It's like, yeah. Like, just reskinning a full bait picker, probably not something he's gonna do. And, also, you end up with serious trade offs.

Ian

00:47:42 – 00:48:05

Like you said, like, if you just take select two, well, now you have all select two's weird decisions that people have beef with and all that stuff. But there is that middle ground of, like, well, is there a lower level component that's really just doing a lot of meat and potato stuff, but isn't the sort of interactivity? The constant trade off, right, is, like, by spending two or three months on this, you are not building whatever

Aaron

00:48:05 – 00:48:05

all the

Ian

00:48:05 – 00:48:08

other things that need that could be built to make a full component library.

Aaron

00:48:09 – 00:48:10

That is the truth.

Ian

00:48:10 – 00:48:11

Nice. Feel that feel that

Aaron

00:48:11 – 00:48:13

my bones every single day.

Ian

00:48:13 – 00:48:22

You know, and every day customers are coming to the potential customers are coming to the site, right, and being like, oh, there's no data table. I really want a data table.

Aaron

00:48:22 – 00:48:23

Yeah.

Ian

00:48:23 – 00:48:37

And I'm gonna have to pull in this other data table, which looks nothing like the best of flux. So once I do that, why am I bothering? Maybe I should go just do some other thing or use React or whatever because it's this is not complete yet. So it's like, that's the rub. Right?

Ian

00:48:37 – 00:48:42

It's like every day you're losing customers because you don't have the fully blessed product.

Aaron

00:48:42 – 00:48:42

Yep.

Ian

00:48:42 – 00:48:45

And so that is not straight off. So

Aaron

00:48:45 – 00:49:13

I feel like this this is very in line with what we were talking about earlier, which is short term, long term. You know? I feel like short term short term, the answer is pull something in, scan it, get it out the door. And I feel like long term, that's gonna be a bad strategy. And so it's so it's so hard to, like, it's so hard to make the decision between, like, exploit versus invest.

Aaron

00:49:14 – 00:49:28

You know, we've talked about explore exploit, but now we've got invest exploit. You know? Because I think spending two months on this, I I have no doubts that it's gonna come out the other side better than a skinned underlying library.

Ian

00:49:28 – 00:49:28

Right.

Aaron

00:49:28 – 00:50:13

And so coming out the other side with the best possible date picker for Livewire, not the best possible date picker in the whole world, the best possible one for his use case, coming out the other side of that is gonna make the library more appealing, more attractive, sell more. But in the intervening two months, it's probably hurting sales, you know? And so that's that's where, again, I feel torn between what is the calculus or what's the equation of just get something out the door and make money and spend time to do it right because you believe, which is the hard part, you believe in the long term, it will make more money or be better or something like that. You know?

Ian

00:50:14 – 00:50:19

Yeah. I I mean, it cuts both ways a little bit, though. Right? Because it's like you. So there's yes.

Ian

00:50:19 – 00:50:37

There's that. Like, we gotta get new features out the door, especially early on where, like, it's a really big factor a lot of times because you're not even to, like, baseline sort of expectations necessarily. And then but is it better longer term? I don't know. Like, yes and no.

Ian

00:50:37 – 00:50:53

It's hard to say. It depends. It depends a lot, which I don't know the answer to this in this particular case, but it depends a lot to me on like, what is the maintenance overhead of every permutation of weird date time stuff. Right? Like maybe the baseline JavaScript stuff now is actually pretty good.

Ian

00:50:53 – 00:51:15

And so there's not that much like you're yes. You have to build out all this core stuff, but once you have that, like that's right. It's gonna be fine, But maybe there's a million edge cases for people in weird locales and all the weird stuff you wanna do and all they wanna go back in history and what happens from your date from 1784 or whatever. Like, whatever. All that stuff.

Aaron

00:51:15 – 00:51:16

That's your dear.

Ian

00:51:16 – 00:51:25

Yeah. So then are you spending now years in bug fix land with your own proprietary daytime thing? This is what we call

Aaron

00:51:25 – 00:51:31

being hoisted by your own petard. Right. Exactly. That that's what we call that. Any chance I get to say that?

Ian

00:51:31 – 00:51:49

You're you're, yeah. I'd love, love that saying. You know, you're a bootstrapper. You're not gonna probably have a team of five or 10 devs on this anytime soon. So yeah, so I guess that that's the trade off is, like, sometimes the long term, you don't get that bang necessarily.

Aaron

00:51:49 – 00:52:01

I mean why it's a risk. Yeah. Yeah. That's And hopefully, hopefully so I think the you would only ever take on a risk if you think that the outcome is gonna be a lot bigger. Right?

Aaron

00:52:01 – 00:52:07

Otherwise, you're just gonna do the safe thing. Something, you know, T bills and stock portfolio, whatever. Something something something

Ian

00:52:07 – 00:52:15

I think that's true of certain people. I think some people that's not true for. Right? Like, they're just gonna do the thing they wanna do, regardless of if it's the best.

Aaron

00:52:15 – 00:52:27

So if we're going by a pure economic reasonable person standard, you you would only take on a risk if you think the outcome is higher. Otherwise, you would go for the risk free rate, and you'd get your money back. Right?

Ian

00:52:27 – 00:52:27

Yeah.

Aaron

00:52:27 – 00:52:39

So I think I feel I feel very similar to how we're making up that Caleb is feeling, that how how we're speaking on his behalf.

Ian

00:52:40 – 00:52:40

Yeah.

Aaron

00:52:41 – 00:53:07

I feel kind of like I'm just like, I'm on a trapeze, and I'm out there in the middle. And if I catch it on the other side, it's gonna be awesome, but there's definitely a chance I'm gonna fall and hit the net. And so I I I feel like he's kinda in that same spot where, he is committed to doing this date picker. And if he pulls it off, it's going to be awesome. And if not, it's really going to suck.

Aaron

00:53:07 – 00:53:28

And so I think that is, I think that is a good calculated risk that he's taking. And I think he's got he probably has in his favor the fact that he's pulled off a lot of tricky and, technically complicated stuff before. And so he probably feels pretty confident that he'll pull it off. It's just taking, you know, super long time.

Ian

00:53:28 – 00:53:36

Yeah. I mean, he definitely done a ton of crazy JavaScript stuff. Right? I mean, he's got a whole wide framework JavaScript framework he's got. Yeah.

Ian

00:53:36 – 00:53:43

He's got obviously live wires below JavaScript trickiness. So, yeah, he's certainly a person capable of pulling this off, which

Aaron

00:53:44 – 00:53:44

Mhmm.

Ian

00:53:44 – 00:53:49

Obviously, I would never do attempt to do this. I would be like, where's the thing to slap in there? I have no interest in

Aaron

00:53:49 – 00:53:52

Where's the 10 megabyte library I can't slap in there?

Ian

00:53:52 – 00:54:03

Megabyte library. I'm not going to obviously, I wouldn't build a component library to go with, but, yeah. I don't know. So I thought that was a little interesting thing that popped in my head when I was listening last night to it. But,

Aaron

00:54:04 – 00:54:12

I'm calling deal. You gotta record a notes on work Yeah. With your your response to this whole segment. So do that do that as soon as you hear this, please.

Ian

00:54:14 – 00:54:17

Alright. What else is going on? Any other excitement out there?

Aaron

00:54:17 – 00:54:19

Oh, let's see.

Ian

00:54:19 – 00:54:20

And then we can

Aaron

00:54:20 – 00:54:24

talk about Let's see. How much cover? What time what time are we at? We're at fifty six. We're at

Ian

00:54:24 – 00:54:25

an hour. So Man,

Aaron

00:54:25 – 00:54:30

we we got a little bit of time. Let's see. I don't know why I asked. I don't know if I have anything else.

Ian

00:54:30 – 00:54:40

Yeah. I don't I don't think I really have anything else. I don't know. It's like I feel like we've been I've been out of the minds like the holidays and kind of all this. Yeah, I've just been.

Aaron

00:54:40 – 00:54:51

Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't think I have anything else. This library library is occupying my entire mind, and that's about it.

Ian

00:54:52 – 00:54:57

So, like, so let let our economy you is like the 20 something or what?

Aaron

00:54:57 – 00:55:03

Oh, gosh. No. With the con.eu. February third, Ian. Oh.

Aaron

00:55:03 – 00:55:04

Yeah.

Ian

00:55:04 – 00:55:08

Why would I I know. Podcast. This is a waste of an hour. You shouldn't have gotten

Aaron

00:55:08 – 00:55:09

That's what I'm telling you.

Ian

00:55:09 – 00:55:12

Oh my goodness. Oh, look at all

Aaron

00:55:12 – 00:55:15

these sponsors. Wow. They got a lot of sponsors. Good for them.

Ian

00:55:15 – 00:55:17

Did they put the schedule up yet or no?

Aaron

00:55:18 – 00:55:19

Ian

00:55:19 – 00:55:23

do. Soon. Schedule soon. Schedule soon. February 3, man.

Aaron

00:55:24 – 00:55:25

Yeah.

Ian

00:55:25 – 00:55:26

Oh, boy.

Aaron

00:55:26 – 00:55:31

Oh, boy. I know. I know. Oh, Taylor's speaking. I didn't know Taylor was speaking.

Ian

00:55:31 – 00:55:36

Yeah. No. It's like Yeah. It's like his show now. He's gotta speak.

Ian

00:55:38 – 00:55:44

So how close to done are you? Give us a percentage that next week, we can see where you're at. We can follow-up.

Aaron

00:55:45 – 00:55:58

I've been saying on on record for a long time that I'm, you know, 60% done. I think now having now having worked on it for a while, I'm I'm probably now about 30% done.

Ian

00:55:58 – 00:56:04

Okay. So That's not how We're not podcast percentages are supposed to work, Erin. I don't know.

Aaron

00:56:05 – 00:56:05

You need to go back

Ian

00:56:05 – 00:56:06

to college.

Aaron

00:56:06 – 00:56:07

The road experience

Ian

00:56:07 – 00:56:08

is performing.

Aaron

00:56:09 – 00:56:09

Yeah. Like,

Ian

00:56:09 – 00:56:12

you're going the wrong direction completion percentage chart.

Aaron

00:56:12 – 00:56:27

I know. So, yeah, I would say so I'm I'm trying to it's still it's still an open question as to what I'm building towards. Am I building towards an initial release, or am I building towards a stage ready demo? And those are actually different questions.

Ian

00:56:27 – 00:56:28

Question already.

Aaron

00:56:28 – 00:56:31

Okay. So a stage ready demo. Yeah. I think so. I think that's where it Alright.

Aaron

00:56:31 – 00:56:32

That's helpful.

Ian

00:56:32 – 00:56:36

I think you should just go with that. I don't even think you should pretend that you're trying to release this thing. Okay.

Aaron

00:56:36 – 00:56:37

That's good.

Ian

00:56:37 – 00:56:46

It's a pro you're not gonna be able to release it in the way you wanna release it with only a couple weeks to go. So I think you should just have the stage ready demo, get the concept out there. People will

Aaron

00:56:46 – 00:56:48

Get the buzz. Love it. Right?

Ian

00:56:48 – 00:56:59

If they if you if you get crickets, that would be interesting to know before you Mhmm. Bring it all the way to, like, super polished. Yeah. I don't think you wanna try to make it releasable. Okay.

Aaron

00:56:59 – 00:57:02

Well, that just changed my percentage a lot then.

Ian

00:57:02 – 00:57:02

Okay.

Aaron

00:57:02 – 00:57:04

In in that case, I'm probably

Ian

00:57:05 – 00:57:05

34.

Aaron

00:57:05 – 00:57:15

Having spent so much time on it now, I'm probably 50% done. Oh, I have. Yeah. Well, that's we've only regressed 10 points, so that's not bad. Yeah.

Aaron

00:57:15 – 00:57:23

So it is, there there's enough functionality that I have recorded some screen demos and sent them to people.

Ian

00:57:23 – 00:57:23

Okay.

Aaron

00:57:23 – 00:57:30

So, like, there is there's enough there that, you can get the gist, and and it's interesting.

Ian

00:57:31 – 00:57:31

Okay.

Aaron

00:57:32 – 00:57:46

So, yeah, I think there are just a few more a few more, like, fundamental building blocks that need to be put in place, and then we can start working on polish and tweak and, like, the actual presentation part of it.

Ian

00:57:47 – 00:57:59

Yeah. Yeah. Because it seems like you would wanna, like, get it, like, pretty stable ish, you know, bay you know, early stable. And then, you know, to build the presentation, because you could probably have to build stuff in there. Right?

Aaron

00:57:59 – 00:57:59

Oh, yeah.

Ian

00:57:59 – 00:58:04

When you're like, oh, yeah. I wanna show this part of it. You're gonna need to at least have some hacky version of that working.

Aaron

00:58:04 – 00:58:05

Yep.

Ian

00:58:05 – 00:58:08

So you're probably gonna have, you know, have some of that kind of stuff going on too. So

Aaron

00:58:08 – 00:58:11

Oh, yeah. February 3. That is not many days away.

Ian

00:58:13 – 00:58:17

You're not gonna be the guy who's, ready to turn in his talk two weeks before.

Aaron

00:58:17 – 00:58:24

No. No. Definitely not. But but I'm also always the guy that is very prepared on stage.

Ian

00:58:25 – 00:58:27

Prepared. Yeah. You're you're never shown up there on

Aaron

00:58:27 – 00:58:30

No. I would never phone it in. So that much

Ian

00:58:30 – 00:58:32

is that much birthday or second day?

Aaron

00:58:32 – 00:58:35

I don't know. I don't know anything. I know nothing about this conference.

Ian

00:58:36 – 00:58:40

You're just showing up. I'm just showing up. There? Are you are you in and out? Are you hanging out?

Ian

00:58:41 – 00:58:42

Travel plan?

Aaron

00:58:43 – 00:58:51

I think I arrive, like, a day or two early in time for, like, the speaker's dinner. And then I think I leave the day after the conference.

Ian

00:58:51 – 00:58:54

So It's a pretty tough You're not, like, making mini vacation or anything.

Aaron

00:58:54 – 00:59:08

No. Unfortunately not. So I'll I'll be there for all conference events. I don't love it when speakers, like, do their talk and then peace out. Especially well, these these are my people, so I would never do that.

Aaron

00:59:08 – 00:59:21

But Right. At other conferences, I kinda get it, I guess, because I don't know anybody at other conferences. Yeah. But I wouldn't want to do that here. And so I'll stick around for everything, and, hopefully, there's, you know, fun stuff going on after the conference.

Aaron

00:59:21 – 00:59:22

But then the next day, I gotta get home.

Ian

00:59:22 – 00:59:34

I did. That's just reminding you reminded me of something I I had done over the past few weeks, which is playing a Disney trip, which maybe we'll talk about next time. But I've planned a Disney trip, which is, if anybody's ever done that, a tremendous amount of work.

Aaron

00:59:34 – 00:59:35

Yeah. Thank you.

Ian

00:59:35 – 00:59:39

Yeah. So we gotta get you on the Disney train. Are you on the Disney train? You got all these kids.

Aaron

00:59:39 – 00:59:51

I am I am not on the Disney train. No. I just read a story about a a Disney adult, Yeah. And I'm just I'm just glad I'm not on the Disney train.

Ian

00:59:51 – 00:59:54

One producer Dave is a Disney adult. So I

Aaron

00:59:54 – 00:59:57

think Caleb's wife is a Disney adult. Okay.

Ian

00:59:57 – 00:59:58

Yes. I

Aaron

00:59:58 – 00:59:58

think I

Ian

00:59:58 – 00:59:59

heard about them

Aaron

00:59:59 – 01:00:05

being Yes. Yes. I think they go down to Florida every every summer or every winter or something, and they go to Disney, like, 50 times.

Ian

01:00:06 – 01:00:07

Love Disney, man.

Aaron

01:00:07 – 01:00:09

Hate that. I would hate that.

Ian

01:00:09 – 01:00:21

Love Disney. Disney is everything about, like, software development isn't and it's, like, just perfection. It's a complete it's a finished product. Although they're always improving it. But, like, everything's perfect.

Ian

01:00:21 – 01:00:27

Everything's right where it should be. It's how you just wish the whole world could be like Disney. That's right. No. Disney.

Aaron

01:00:27 – 01:00:29

On the next one. Because I don't I don't get the thing. So We got it.

Ian

01:00:29 – 01:00:31

We're gonna need a little more time for that one.

Aaron

01:00:31 – 01:00:31

I think so.

Ian

01:00:32 – 01:00:36

So good. Love Disney. Alright. Let's leave it there.

Aaron

01:00:36 – 01:00:42

Last thing. Oh. Speaking of RIP Brian's podcast, what is it called? Bootstrap Bootstrap Web. Oh, great show.

Aaron

01:00:42 – 01:00:48

Great show. Condolences. He and Justin Jackson are starting a new show. Yes. Do you see this?

Aaron

01:00:48 – 01:00:50

Did you see this on your favorite social network app, Blue Sky?

Ian

01:00:51 – 01:00:54

I did. That's all. That's all I need anymore. Everything's there that I need. It's fine.

Aaron

01:00:54 – 01:01:03

Sure. So they're starting a new podcast called The Panel. Yes. Good name. Where they have other people on, and we should go on and argue with them.

Ian

01:01:04 – 01:01:07

I think I am gonna be on. Yes. But we should go on together. That's even funny.

Aaron

01:01:07 – 01:01:08

That's what I'm saying.

Ian

01:01:08 – 01:01:09

Yes. We should do that.

Aaron

01:01:10 – 01:01:19

We should I bet I here's what I bet will happen if we go on together. I bet you and Justin form a team and me and Brian form a team. That's my guess.

Ian

01:01:19 – 01:01:20

Seems likely.

Aaron

01:01:20 – 01:01:21

That's my guess.

Ian

01:01:21 – 01:01:22

I I would say that's probably true. Yeah.

Aaron

01:01:22 – 01:01:31

So I've already I've already, put myself forward to come on and and debate. Yeah. Yes. Yes. But if we go on together, that would that would be a blast.

Ian

01:01:31 – 01:01:35

We need we need a together episode in addition to if we do individual episodes. Yeah.

Aaron

01:01:35 – 01:01:35

We do.

Ian

01:01:35 – 01:01:50

Yeah. Yeah. I like that part. I mean, the thing I was like, that's a good that's such a good, you know, hooks in the bringing in other people's audiences whole thing as a native part of the show, which is obviously a very smart move. Yeah.

Ian

01:01:50 – 01:01:55

That'd be interesting. Speaking of which, we haven't had a guest in a long time. We should have a guest at some point. We haven't. A guest on here.

Aaron

01:01:55 – 01:02:02

We should have Caleb's wife, Hannah, join us for the Disney episode. Y'all y'all could just talk Disney the whole time, and I'll just I can I don't need you to be there for that one?

Ian

01:02:02 – 01:02:03

Yeah. We did.

Aaron

01:02:03 – 01:02:17

Here's the other good here's the other good thing about the panel. Their show, they have two hosts, so there's continuity. Yeah. Because if you have a interviewer and a guest only, every single show is basically different. Yep.

Aaron

01:02:17 – 01:02:20

And then I only tune in for the guests that I care about.

Ian

01:02:20 – 01:02:21

Yeah.

Aaron

01:02:21 – 01:02:34

But if you have continuity with two cohosts, you can get some sort of, like, some sort of vibe and banter that carries on Yeah. Across show across guests, which I think is gonna be important. Longitude That's definitely

Ian

01:02:34 – 01:02:56

a huge thing for me. Like, I want there needs to be some form of consistency, whether it's, like I mean, Cale pulls it off on his own, but he has kind of a shtick that he does Yep. With himself. Obviously shows like ours where it's the two people and, you know, there's ongoing threads about what's going on either with them or what they discuss or whatever. But, yeah, pure interview show is the worst show to me.

Ian

01:02:56 – 01:02:56

I agree.

Aaron

01:02:56 – 01:02:56

I don't

Ian

01:02:56 – 01:03:12

I don't subscribe to any of them. I don't listen to any of them. Even ones that are people I wanna hear about, it's gotta be, like, really compelling to make me, like, go and listen to the to the interview. But, but, yeah, I think that is interesting. Especially, I hope they give that, like, a little space to breathe.

Ian

01:03:12 – 01:03:15

Like, maybe they need, like, maybe there's ten minutes at the beginning or the end

Aaron

01:03:15 – 01:03:16

Gotta have segments, you know

Ian

01:03:16 – 01:03:25

the panel. Yeah. There's, like, a site some segments where it's just them, and they can kinda cover stuff or whatever. I think that would be a cool way to to work

Aaron

01:03:25 – 01:03:36

And here's my open requests to all podcasts. When you have a guest come on, please don't ask a question like, so how'd you how did you get into computers? Right. I don't care. Stop.

Aaron

01:03:36 – 01:03:40

Get to the good stuff. I don't wanna hear how you got into computers.

Ian

01:03:40 – 01:03:42

So bad. They're all the same. They all They're all

Aaron

01:03:42 – 01:03:42

the same.

Ian

01:03:43 – 01:03:50

The same. If you, if you listen to like, I don't know. I just feel like, I mean, I've heard a lot of interviews with like Taylor, for example. Right? Yeah.

Ian

01:03:50 – 01:03:51

And like, they, it's all the same thing.

Aaron

01:03:51 – 01:03:52

All the same.

Ian

01:03:52 – 01:04:03

It's literally always 40. What? No. It's probably like 80% of the interviews are literally identical. And then there's like, a few bits and pieces that are, are different in some way.

Ian

01:04:03 – 01:04:14

And it's like, that's why I've always wanted to do interview podcasts. Like nothing like that. It's like heavy research, figure out the cool shit the person's doing now. And like, let's talk about that and let's just jump right. Who?

Ian

01:04:14 – 01:04:18

Yeah. Who cares how you got started computers? Who cares? Oh, there's a huge thing. Let's just use that.

Ian

01:04:18 – 01:04:37

Continue that example. Laravel, everybody knows about Laravel, who would ever listen to the Taylor Otwell interview, right? Like they don't need the history of Laravel 8,000 places to get the history of Laravel. You don't need the history of Laravel another time. So like you could just skip all that stuff and poke right in on Laravel cloud, which is what's going on now.

Ian

01:04:37 – 01:04:47

Right. Or night watch or whatever, or even more interesting maybe, or combine with that. Like what's his takes on something unrelated? Let's get his take on React. What does he think about React or whatever?

Ian

01:04:47 – 01:04:56

Like, you know, we could go in all different directions besides the history of X or the thing that's been out for twenty years and we've all heard about it already. Like,

Aaron

01:04:57 – 01:04:57

We gotta do

Ian

01:04:57 – 01:04:58

an interview show. Maybe we do

Aaron

01:04:58 – 01:05:22

Gotta do an interview show. I don't listen I don't listen to, a lot of Joe Rogan, but I saw that he had Mark Zuckerberg on, and people were talking about how good it was. And I listened to the first part of it. And within the first, like, ninety seconds, Joe Rogan said something like, so you just totally changed content moderation, and a lot of people are mad about it. What's what's the deal with that?

Aaron

01:05:22 – 01:05:23

And I was like, hey. Good for you.

Ian

01:05:23 – 01:05:25

Yeah. Jump right in.

Aaron

01:05:25 – 01:05:35

You sat down. You said, we're here now. And then, like, you literally asked the hardest question upfront. And it was great. I was like, that's how you do that's how you do an interview.

Aaron

01:05:35 – 01:05:44

Especially, you know, it's different because he's Mark Zuckerberg. Nobody doesn't know who Mark Zuckerberg is. But I was like, wow. This guy is actually that's a good job. Way to go, man.

Aaron

01:05:44 – 01:05:46

I didn't do reasonable thing. Biggest

Ian

01:05:46 – 01:05:47

podcast in the world. Right?

Aaron

01:05:47 – 01:05:55

God. But then they start talking about martial arts for, like, an hour, and I'm like, I don't freaking care about this. Nobody care nobody care that's not true. A lot of people care. I don't care.

Ian

01:05:55 – 01:06:01

So I don't care about that. Whatever. For sure. But alright. Well, there you go.

Ian

01:06:01 – 01:06:01

There's our hot day.

Aaron

01:06:01 – 01:06:02

There you go.

Ian

01:06:02 – 01:06:11

Yeah. Thanks everybody for tuning in. We're back. We're we're we're got stuff to talk about probably. We're gonna have a Disney episode coming up.

Ian

01:06:11 – 01:06:21

That's gonna be awesome. Aaron's gonna love that. Yeah. That's what I'm doing next week. Find us mostly technical.com at mostly techpod on Twitter.

Ian

01:06:22 – 01:06:31

MostlyTechnical.com on Blue Sky. Mostly TechnicalPodcast@Gmail.com. I think I'm gonna stop this out. Right? People know people know where to get this

Aaron

01:06:31 – 01:06:33

Nobody nobody cares. Show notes.

Ian

01:06:33 – 01:06:34

Nobody cares.

Aaron

01:06:34 – 01:06:40

I think just as long as it's on mostlytechnical.com, they can they can find it. If they wanna find it, they'll find it. We just

Ian

01:06:40 – 01:06:41

set them there from now on. Yes.

Aaron

01:06:41 – 01:06:42

I agree. Nobody cares.

Ian

01:06:43 – 01:06:44

It's all linked from there.

Aaron

01:06:44 – 01:06:45

It's all linked from there.

Ian

01:06:45 – 01:06:48

We got the Internet and a website. That's all you need.

Aaron

01:06:48 – 01:06:59

And, also, literally zero people are like, oh, maybe I should go visit them on Twitter and follow their Twitter account after hearing Ian say that. Nobody cares. Nobody freaking cares. Alright. Mostlytechnical.com.

Aaron

01:06:59 – 01:07:00

We'll see you next week.

Ian

01:07:00 – 01:07:06

Because it's professional. It's a professional. It's professional outro. Oh, man. Sir.

Ian

01:07:07 – 01:07:07

Alright. Alright.

Aaron

01:07:07 – 01:07:07

See

Ian

01:07:07 – 01:07:09

you guys later. See you.

The Existential Threat

Transcript

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