The Power of Sharing Expertise

October 11, 2023

I joined Arvid Kahl on his Bootstrapped Founder podcast to talk about sharing your expertise, teaching, and the launch of screencasting.com
Watch on YouTube →

Transcript

Arvid
00:00:09 – 00:00:44
I'm talking to Aaron Francis today, the man who recently created a really, really great screencasting course and had a spectacular launch with it. I'm Arvid, and welcome to the Bootstrap Founder. Today, Aaron will not only teach you why even the most technical of us should learn how to present their expertise, you'll also get a master class in building in public and a peek behind the curtains of someone who juggles a full time job, site project, a family, and a successful creator life. This episode is sponsored by acquire.com, more on that later. Now, here is Aaron.
Arvid
00:00:44 – 00:01:15
Welcome to the show. I've been a parasocial online friend of yours for quite a while. I've really enjoyed all your work around Laravel and databases and all these juicy yet sincere takes on software development, really appreciated those, big fan. I was quite surprised when I saw your launch very recently, creator focused product, like an intro product, to great success too. So how does a developer turn into an educator with this kind of spectacular course on screencasting of all things?
Aaron
00:01:16 – 00:01:36
Yeah. Interesting, interesting story arc. Well, first of all, big fan of yours, and we've been we've been online internet friends for a long time, so it's exciting exciting for me to finally be here. Yeah. So I just launched I just launched a course on how to record screen casts, and, you know, make them high quality, and do it efficiently and effectively.
Aaron
00:01:36 – 00:02:01
But, like, my background is I'm a developer. And so, kind of, the story of me getting there is I've always been I've always felt like a teacher, like I love to teach things, I love to learn things, and then teach them. And years years years ago, and in like a prior life, I was actually an accountant. I was a CPA, and I didn't love it. But I loved it in school.
Aaron
00:02:02 – 00:02:45
And so in school, you know, when I was getting my masters in accounting, I was like tutoring undergrads the whole time. Like starting, I think junior year, I started tutoring this course in accounting, and I was like this is the best course ever. It's so interesting. And so then many years after I graduated I thought what if I just took all of that tutoring knowledge and, like, put it on video form, like, the the course hasn't changed in 30 years, like, there are no new advancements in financial accounting, you know. And so I did that, and that was my first introduction to, like, oh, I can do this kind of, like, one to many thing, this one to many version of the thing that I love, which is, you know, teaching people something that I care about.
Aaron
00:02:46 – 00:03:08
And so from then, you know, I did that accounting course so so long ago, and then I did a course on a Laravel thing, and now at my current job, which is I'm a developer which is perfect for me, I did a course on databases. And after that course, people were like, hey, your course is really good. How'd you do it? Hey, I love database stuff. How'd you make the course though?
Aaron
00:03:08 – 00:03:21
How'd you do the screen recordings? And I was like, wait, maybe this is one of those you know how, like, you and Justin Jackson and everybody's always like, you gotta listen to the market. Mhmm. Like, I don't know what you're talking about, man. I thought, wait.
Aaron
00:03:21 – 00:03:27
Maybe this is one of those times when the market is saying something. And so I listened, and that that's how we got here.
Arvid
00:03:27 – 00:03:33
That is awesome. Yeah. And and the market I I think has proven you're right. Right? I'm just looking at the numbers that I can see because Mhmm.
Arvid
00:03:33 – 00:03:40
I don't I don't think at least with me you haven't shared any of your your sales figures just yet, but I see half a 1000000 views on the launch tweet, which
Aaron
00:03:40 – 00:03:42
is bizarre for a
Arvid
00:03:42 – 00:03:43
product like this.
Aaron
00:03:43 – 00:04:44
It's it's really slash But it's just so interesting, like, I've just been, you know, out there trying really hard for such a long time, and I feel like I'm, like, this is this is, like, the counter of that. Like, I put out so much stuff and people like, I feel like I have a real connection with a lot of people online, and now I'm like, hey. Can you guys please help me? And they totally came through, and it's been it's been really encouraging
Arvid
00:04:44 – 00:04:57
to see. It's it's nice to see this kind of reciprocity happening eventually. Right? At some final point after many, many years. I'm glad you get to see it because that's something I've been trying to tell people that this is what's gonna happen if you just keep giving, right?
Arvid
00:04:57 – 00:05:08
It's nice to see it actually happening and, see you have this success. I wonder, like, how what were your expectations as you were launching this? Like, how much did you think?
Aaron
00:05:08 – 00:05:35
Yeah. So I, you know, I put in I put in a ton of of effort and energy into recording this thing, and I I kinda knew I kinda knew that the launch would be good, but I had a range of, like, this would be okay and this would be fantastic. And I beat I beat the okay. So I made, you know, I made more than a 100 sales, which I thought would be okay. And I I did more than that, and I thought, oh, well, that's exciting.
Aaron
00:05:37 – 00:06:23
It is really easy, I think, to listen to other creators and people who launch courses who are the outliers, like, you know, you listen to Adam Wavin talk about his old stuff, and he'll do a launch and he gets, like, a $150,000 launch. And it's really easy for me to think, oh, I should've done a $150,000, and I definitely didn't, and and kinda feel bad about that. But then, you know, I I made a thing and I launched it, and the goal that I set ahead of time, I exceeded that even if I didn't get into the range of, like, like, retirement money, which would have to be, you know, a huge amount. But I also have this, like, with this course, there's this great comfort of the material's gonna basically last forever. Right?
Aaron
00:06:23 – 00:06:37
So it's not I don't I don't feel too bad, because I know the launch will be a big spike, but then over time, I'm hoping that I can turn this into, like, a constant evergreen source of, you know, passive income if such a thing exists.
Arvid
00:06:38 – 00:08:05
Well, you still have to do some marketing. Right? But you can at least encourage people to market it for you, which is nice because I I love the the way you just phrased this earlier when you said you you didn't just ask people to buy it, but also to sell it for you. I think that's that's the the new paradigm of using social media or communities or just your audience 25 people in this particular for this particular product as well. I remember tweets of yours where you shared, like, your editing strategies and you just showed how much work it was.
Arvid
00:08:05 – 00:08:12
Like, how much effort did you put in not just the course, but also the building and public part, the reporting about the process of that?
Aaron
00:08:13 – 00:08:44
Yeah. It's interesting because I don't I don't feel like that part is too effortful, honestly, which I think is a is a clear distinction to where I would have what I would have said maybe 3 or 4 years ago. Now, I just feel like it's it's it's a habit. So I'll be, you know, I'll be working on something and I'll think, this is interesting or like, oh, there's a or like, oh, there's a fun angle here, or there's something clever here that I could show. And I just kinda like do the thing and put it out there.
Aaron
00:08:44 – 00:08:53
Whether that's record a, you know, 32nd video being like, hey, look, I just got, you know, I just moved into a new house. Look at my look at my setup. What do you guys think? Boom. Done.
Aaron
00:08:53 – 00:09:33
Or, like, I'm editing and something, like, I look at the timeline and it looks crazy, and so I take a screenshot of it and, you know, send that out and it's it's done. And so for me, I've gotten to this point where, I'm really good at recognizing, like, the detritus or, like, the the stuff that would normally be thrown away of the process. I'm good at recognizing that and seeing, like, not everyone is doing this all day long, and maybe they would find this part interesting. And I know I know from being a consumer, like, from being very online on Twitter, I love when people share behind the scenes of a field that I'm not even in.
Arvid
00:09:33 – 00:09:33
Yeah.
Aaron
00:09:33 – 00:10:00
And it's like, why would I ever get to see that at any other point in history Yeah. But now I'm learning how your robots pick contact lenses off a shelf. Like, yeah, I wanna see every single video that you do about that. I wanna watch it because it's cool and that's not my world. And so I think I've trained myself to realize that people wanna see behind the scenes, and I have lowered the bar.
Aaron
00:10:00 – 00:10:32
I no longer am the judge of what people will find interesting. Like, I think I used to think I have to predetermine what is interesting and what will do well, and now I've realized that the game of, like, building in public or the game of sharing is so unknowable, but it's so cheap to play that the only answer is to play more. Right? So I don't Yeah. I no longer I no longer am like, oh, this is this is gonna be a winner.
Aaron
00:10:32 – 00:10:50
I just think I'm gonna put this out there Yes. And we'll see what happens. And the ones that I thought were winners were losers, and the ones that I thought were nothing are the big winners, and it's like that's why you're not in charge. That's why that's why your job is to is to share things and not to pre filter or prejudge because you'll you'll miss your best stuff if you're
Arvid
00:10:51 – 00:11:14
I I love the parallel here between what you said earlier about the content you've been putting out and the the products and now the course taking off like this. It's the exact same thing with anything, right, that you share. You're not the arbiter of choice or of taste with people. People are, and their attention or their capacity to take their attention and apply it to whatever you may, that is the arbiter and you never know. And with a growing audience, that's also the thing.
Arvid
00:11:14 – 00:11:36
There are just many more variations and diverse ranges of people. You never know what resonates and sometimes you just need one person to pick it up and amplify it to reach a massive amount of more people. That's great. I, you're speaking from my heart. I'm really, really happy you're expressing it like this because that I I feel many people particularly logic minded people like us developers, right?
Arvid
00:11:36 – 00:11:48
We look at stuff and we judge, that's all we do. We are so good at judging because we have this very binary true false mindset. We are Boolean. We're technically Boolean machines, right? We think this is correct code, this is incorrect code.
Arvid
00:11:48 – 00:12:24
Yeah. Barely anything in between, right? There is no fuzzy code or at least not in the mainstream approach to to coding. It's the same with or we take this, it's not the same, it's the opposite in social media. It's a broad variety of of anything, of of choices, of tastes, of or And to think that we could apply our logic reason minded, framework that we have for thinking about truth and a non truth, that's that's a mistake.
Arvid
00:12:24 – 00:12:47
So I love that you are the one that is coming from the developer world and taking this into the back into the developer world, right? Because it's a creator mindset taking, taking that into the developer world. And I love also that you're sharing with people how to create more. It's kind of what I meant when I initially asked, like, how come a developer take builds a creator based product, but it's really not just for creators. Right?
Arvid
00:12:47 – 00:12:56
Do you want to actively encourage developers to be more creative in the way that they share what they what they know or even educate people?
Aaron
00:12:56 – 00:13:37
Yeah. I think I think there is, like, this there's a very defensive stance in, like, developer communities because they've been trained that other people are gonna nitpick or criticize or, like, well, actually them to death. Right? And so it's almost as if, like, the dark side of developer interactions is proving who can be the smartest, and the way that you do that is prove that the thing that somebody said is not entirely true a 100% of the time, or the thing that somebody said, you did that 3 years ago when you were working at this company. And it's like, yeah.
Aaron
00:13:37 – 00:14:07
Okay. Well, I, you know, I'm talking about it now. And so there's this I feel like there's this learned behavior of I have to be really careful of what I share because there are going to be a bunch of well, actually people out there that that, like, kinda beat me down with the criticism. And therefore, I'm I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna share and I'm not gonna put myself out there. I feel I don't know how common that is outside of the developer community, but I am in the developer community and so I know how common it is for us and that's very common.
Aaron
00:14:08 – 00:14:50
And so I think my I think my, like, journey has been realizing that I was beholden to that and, like, allowing myself to, you know, succumb to that pressure, and not putting myself out there for that reason. Because I didn't want people to like I didn't want people to pick it apart and prove that I was wrong, or embarrass me, or something. And I think at some point I just realized like, man, the upsides and the downsides are not balanced here. Like, the downside is potentially someone online, like, tells me that I'm wrong or, like, makes fun of me. It's like, okay.
Arvid
00:14:50 – 00:14:51
Sure.
Aaron
00:14:51 – 00:15:21
Okay. So and and that and differently and, like, exposed myself to more opportunities? Like, oof. That's, like, that's a heavy and totally imbalanced equation. One time you tweeted many, many months or maybe years ago, like, a stand up comedian's worst fear is to not be laughed at.
Aaron
00:15:21 – 00:15:40
What is a build in public person's entrepreneur's worst fear? And my response was, to be laughed at. Yeah. Like, to being laughed at was for sure my greatest fear because I didn't want people to think I was dumb. And I I finally just, like, let go of that and realized, oh, man.
Aaron
00:15:40 – 00:16:10
This is this is your life. Like, the things you want are on the other side of your fear of embarrassment. And if you don't if you don't let go of that, you're gonna you're gonna reach the end of the end of your career and realize how little it mattered if people thought you were dumb and how much you wish you could have just, like, taken a risk. And that's what I'm trying to do that's what I'm trying to encourage other people to do now that I'm on the other side to tell them like, listen, I've been there. I've been totally paralyzed.
Aaron
00:16:10 – 00:16:27
And it's just, for me, it wasn't worth it. You gotta figure out if it's worth it for you. And so that's kind of been like the I feel like I'm in the community and I've made the crossover from paralyzed by fear to just, like, I'm doing this no matter what. And that's why I'm trying to, like, come on. Come with me.
Aaron
00:16:27 – 00:16:28
Follow me.
Arvid
00:16:28 – 00:16:35
Yeah. I'm I'm glad you're doing this. And I'm I'm glad you're doing it so publicly too. Right? You had this great talk at Laracon just this year, I guess.
Arvid
00:16:35 – 00:16:52
Right? Where where you talked about build building and public sharing, sharing the things you do to get attention, but not for attention sake, but for the sake of the betterment of everybody's work too. Right? There's there's something there and I think you're absolutely right. This this fear is is is something really very deeply human, I feel.
Arvid
00:16:52 – 00:16:55
Like I I feel the same way, right? Whenever I put myself in
Aaron
00:16:59 – 00:16:59
front of people, which
Arvid
00:16:59 – 00:17:19
is funny because this podcast literally is putting myself in front of thousands of people, but doesn't feel like that, mostly because of the the, just the asynchronous nature of podcasting, right? You're not doing it in front of people, but you've given talks in front of people and I've done the same. It's a different it's a different kind of world, right? To stand and and get the immediate judgment from people. That's the thing because when you post on social media, that's kind of what happens, right?
Arvid
00:17:19 – 00:17:41
You're standing on a stage, you're kind of by your own volition maybe, but you you go and elevate yourself because you have something to say, and then you fear all those people that could potentially say something negative about you. I think in a pre social media world, humans just didn't have to deal with this most of the time. Yeah. Like when did you ever physically go on the stage and talk about the thing that you knew a lot about? You like, right?
Arvid
00:17:41 – 00:18:04
It does never really happen other than Yeah. Conferences or whatever. You never got used to just being confident in your own abilities in front of strangers pretty much, but you you're doing it pretty well. Did it get some or did it take some getting used to, like, to other than dealing with negativity, but even dealing with should I or am I even capable imposter syndrome, that's pretty much what I'm asking for. Do you do you did you feel this?
Arvid
00:18:04 – 00:18:05
Do you still feel it sometimes?
Aaron
00:18:06 – 00:18:34
Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, I work so I work at a company called Planet making videos, giving talks, you know, being on Twitter. I'm doing a lot of, like, forward outward facing stuff. The trick is I'm, like, lower 10th, 5th percentile of developer experts at the company.
Aaron
00:18:34 – 00:19:00
Right? And so there's this weird mismatch of, like, we have truly some of the smartest MySQL brains that have ever existed in the industry. Like, I was I was looking at, I think I was looking at some of the bug reports from like the early 2000s, and I saw my coworkers' names listed on there, and I was like, what? How am I the one speaking on our behalf? And so, yeah, I feel that all the time.
Aaron
00:19:00 – 00:19:58
I constantly feel that. I feel that at work, obviously, and I feel that when I'm out on my own and there is no, like, there is no structure or hierarchy or like, reporting oversight or anything. I'm just out there, like with screencasting.com, I'm just out there giving you my opinions and telling you how I do a thing, all the while knowing that there are people who make better, higher quality, more effortful screencasts than I do. And so there's this weird tension between like, I think the thing that I'm doing or teaching or saying is valuable, and because I am an expert in some areas, I know that there are people that do it better or are more expert than I am. And I think one of the things I've had to come to terms with is like, I am not I am not here to teach the people who are beyond me, which sounds so obvious, right?
Aaron
00:19:58 – 00:20:13
But in your mind when you're thinking of the critics, and you're thinking of the rebuttals, you're thinking of all the people you look up to. Yeah. Right? Right. So, like, when when I'm, you know, when I'm doing an info product launch, I'm thinking, oh, man.
Aaron
00:20:13 – 00:20:16
Adam Wathan would have done it better. But, like, why am I, like
Arvid
00:20:16 – 00:20:18
does that have 3 people
Aaron
00:20:18 – 00:20:36
to, like, twist of it. Right? And when I'm when I'm, like, recording a course on how to do screencasts, I'm thinking, oh, Geoffrey Way at Laracasts probably does this better. And it's like, yeah, he's literally top point 1 percent of screen casters alive. And so But those are the people that I look up to.
Aaron
00:20:36 – 00:21:00
Right? And so I constantly have to remind myself I still have something valuable to say even if I can't teach the top ten people in the world how to do it. There are a lot of other people Yeah. That I can I can teach? And regardless of, like, even if we take the the vertical, good, better, best, worst out, like, scale out of it, there's a difference scale.
Aaron
00:21:00 – 00:21:37
Right? So maybe let's say, for example, Jeffrey, this is not true, but let's say I'm as good as Jeffrey Way. Right? So laricast.com and Aaron Francis totally equals. And so those are things that I've had to come to terms with of like, there are going to be people who are better than you in the audience and they may disagree with you.
Aaron
00:21:37 – 00:22:12
And you know what? That's just fine. And there are going to be people who are as good or worse than you who have differing opinions and that's that's just fine. As long as I feel like the thing that I am offering is valuable and I have done as much work and research to to make sure that it's true, I feel I feel pretty confident. And that's another, like, another point on the, I will put it out there and I don't judge, like, I don't judge the response the moment that I hand it off to the market, the community, the universe, like, my job is done.
Aaron
00:22:13 – 00:22:22
And we'll see, like, hopefully, it goes well because that would be awesome for my emotions, but I've done my responsibility and I feel confident in that part.
Arvid
00:22:22 – 00:22:28
Yeah. And and there's an artifact out there of your skill level at that point. That's also a thing. Right? Because you can still improve.
Arvid
00:22:28 – 00:22:46
Like, if you redo the course in 5 years from now, right, you will have exceeded the the skill level that you have right now and from all the feedback you've gotten you're gonna make it better. Like there's there's some kind of iteration there as well. And honestly I love the the kind of multi perspective thing you just mentioned even Jeffrey would probably benefit from your perspective
Aaron
00:22:47 – 00:22:49
yes, he might pick up some points, yes.
Arvid
00:22:49 – 00:23:30
Exactly. People they still want to learn from other people, like this they are not all of a sudden resistant to more expertise from somebody else because they themselves know that they don't know everything, which is kind of the curse curse of knowledge situation, right? You know that you don't know and you wanna learn, maybe you wanna find some kind of validation in other people's thoughts, or you wanna see just alternative ways of doing it yourself so you can explore a more creative approach. Like even Jeffrey could benefit benefit from that, but you're right absolutely there is millions of people that are not Jeffrey, but that are behind you on your own journey that would love to be where you are right now. And I think you can you can kind of generalize this for every single person that does a job professionally.
Arvid
00:23:30 – 00:23:45
There is always somebody behind you on the same journey that you're on, right? It doesn't matter if you started coding 2 weeks ago, there are people that are 1 week behind you and they would love to know today what you learned yesterday that is still 5 days in their future. Right? Is the math right? You know what I'm saying.
Arvid
00:23:45 – 00:24:44
I do. It's just a little bit, but that is already valid enough reason to share with people. And I love that you and I love that you do it in video. I think one of the strongest ways to build an actual like human relationship with somebody else is to allow them to see your face, excited about this, but most of the time, very introverted. How important is it for me as a dev to use video and audio in the way that I communicate with people?
Aaron
00:24:45 – 00:25:03
Yeah. Yeah. So I also I also am very much an introvert. I would so much rather be at home on a Friday night just hanging out either with my family or alone Yep. And, you know, doing whatever, like coding or making something.
Aaron
00:25:03 – 00:25:21
So I feel that, you know, in my bones. I think it depends on I think it depends on what you're going for. Right? So you can get by, and frankly, I'll take it back. You can do very well never being a public or public ish developer.
Aaron
00:25:21 – 00:25:38
Right? You can go into a company, work very hard, make your boss very happy, and get promoted and make a lot of money and go home and garden or whatever. That's totally viable. I think a lot of people listening to this show are like, yeah, but I don't wanna do that. So knowing that that's totally viable, let's talk about the other side.
Aaron
00:25:38 – 00:26:04
I think, in terms of, like, content and publicity, I think it is kind of a pyramid. And at the very bottom of the pyramid is people who do nothing, who just who don't who don't do anything, and that's fine. Above that is some sort of, like, short form publishing, so like Twitter. Like you just you're just putting thoughts out there, and you can kinda you can kinda grow a following based on that. Some people have grown a following hugely based on that.
Aaron
00:26:05 – 00:26:21
But then above that is, like, long form blog posts, which take more effort. And then above that, I think you start getting into video, not because it's inherently more valuable. I do think it is, but not because it's inherently more valuable, but because it is more difficult. Mhmm. Right?
Aaron
00:26:21 – 00:26:38
And so you're thinking about, like, how am I gonna stand out as a developer? Well, just tweeting, it's gonna be pretty hard. The the barrier the barrier to entry on tweeting is, like, is very very low. It's still free. You know, at some point it may be $8, but it's still free.
Aaron
00:26:38 – 00:26:50
And, like, anybody can sign up and tweet a 100 times a day. So you move up to blogs and it's like, yeah, you gotta sit down and write. What a pain. You move up to video and you're like, oh, I gotta record video. That is a huge pain.
Aaron
00:26:50 – 00:27:20
And so, with those different, like, moving up that pyramid of what is available, I think also expands who is going to consume it. Right? Because tweets will scroll scroll by, they'll be gone. But if you see a video, like, you just don't see as many developers or, you know, whatever, you whatever industry you're in, you don't see as many people on video. And so you you, you attribute outsized weight and outsized authority to people who are on video.
Aaron
00:27:20 – 00:27:32
Because you just you don't see it's a it's not a recency, it's an availability thing. It's an availability thing. So you think, like, oh, there are 7 people in the Laravel community that I regularly see videos from.
Arvid
00:27:32 – 00:27:33
Yep. That's right.
Aaron
00:27:33 – 00:28:37
And there are there are 50,000 that I see tweets from, but, oh, yeah, those 7 guys and girls, those are the video people. And you just somehow give them more credit than maybe they deserve, but they they did that, like, they put in the effort. And doing You are the one that's like, I'm gonna take the risk to, like, to basically expose myself, my human form to criticism. And I think there's, like, a connection that you can form, and like a almost like people are rooting for you, because everybody wants to do it. Like, everybody wants to be out there being the person teaching, but, like, most people don't because it's really hard.
Aaron
00:28:37 – 00:28:46
And so if you do, I have found from personal experience that people are, like, yeah, I'm on your team. Go. Go, guy. Go. Good job.
Aaron
00:28:46 – 00:28:57
And it's just it's it's a it is a cheat code. If you can become comfortable enough putting your face on camera, you get this human connection that I think is unbeatable.
Arvid
00:28:58 – 00:29:09
Yeah. That that is the core. Right? The core is allowing people to form this connection with you. And it's it's super it's kinda easy on Twitter because you have these little interactions, but it's a very shallow connection if it's just on Twitter.
Arvid
00:29:09 – 00:30:40
If it's just like between your little avatar picture and their avatar picture, it's it's becomes a very shallow conversation. But the moment people see you like vibrantly talk about something that you really enjoy, like it's hard not to be just very actively trying to convince somebody of the the truth or the importance of the thing you have to say. And when you feel this in somebody, you think, okay, they're doing this from from the heart. They're not just doing this from the wallet, right, or Yeah. Any other part, that is shares support that that I could immediately improve my screencast by?
Arvid
00:30:40 – 00:30:53
I did a couple of coding things in back in the day when I was still actively coding, now I'm more more or less just writing all the time, which is also coding, but, you know, can you just tell me a couple things other than putting your face in there that that make it make it better?
Aaron
00:30:54 – 00:31:28
Yeah. So in, you know, in my experience and throughout this course, basically, my goal is to get people to the point where they can create a high quality, like, polished screen cast, but do it quickly. Like the the whole the whole angle for this course, and I think it's important to have an angle, the whole angle is like you're an expert at something and you want to teach, but you don't want to become a video editor. Like, you wanna teach the thing and get back to work. And so I think there are a few things that can like that can level up a screencast pretty quickly.
Aaron
00:31:29 – 00:31:40
Starting even before you hit record is like figuring out who you're gonna teach. And I, like, that's really easy to say, like, I'm gonna teach developers. It's like, okay, what kind?
Arvid
00:31:40 – 00:31:41
Yeah.
Aaron
00:31:41 – 00:31:47
What skill level? What are they solo? Are they indie? Are they at a startup? Are they at a mega corp?
Aaron
00:31:47 – 00:32:13
Like, you don't have to niche the content down too far, but saying something like, alright, I'm gonna teach, artificial intelligence for Ruby developers, Like, that gives you a point of view that you can then communicate from. I think it also helps to, like, segment people who are looking at your course, because they'll be like, oh, I'm a Ruby developer. This is definitely for me. Yeah. Or I'm a JavaScript developer.
Aaron
00:32:14 – 00:32:48
This is not for me. And so it cuts both ways, but the the market is so huge that you kinda wanna cut it and be like, hey, this is this one is for you. I promise. So even before you hit record, figuring out who you're gonna teach and then figuring out what you're gonna teach, I think is is very important. Like, figuring out what your curriculum is gonna be, and I think a lot of, I think a lot of courses could benefit, or a lot of even individual videos, not even courses, but individual videos could benefit from taking the viewer on a, like, a linear journey or like a path.
Aaron
00:32:49 – 00:33:11
You know, we both know Rob Walling, he's always talking about stair stepping your bootstrapping journey. I think the same thing applies to educational material. You should stair step the viewer into knowledge. So you start with, like, either a base level of understanding, that you know because you've defined your audience. But you start with some base level and then you say, okay, I'm gonna teach you one thing.
Aaron
00:33:11 – 00:33:54
I'm gonna teach you one single thing. And then after that, even either in another video or continuation, whatever, you say, hey, remember that thing we learned? Let's, like, let's optimize that, or let's look at where that doesn't apply, or let's look at how we can make this, you know, better, faster, more adaptable, more flexible, more abstract. But if you go from, like, okay, we're gonna start at the base of knowledge, and while I'm teaching you the one thing I'm gonna teach you when it doesn't work and how to optimize it and how to make it more flexible, you're, like, dude, just, like, teach me one thing and then let's move on. And I think that's a big thing that a lot of, like, educators miss is they take 4 steps at a time, and I'm left thinking, wait.
Aaron
00:33:54 – 00:34:10
What was the thing we're doing? I don't even remember what we're doing. And then once you hit record, I think there are some some really easy things you can do, and that is hide every single thing on your screen. Hide everything. I don't wanna know what time of day it is.
Aaron
00:34:10 – 00:34:20
I don't wanna know what day of the year it is. I don't wanna see what applications you have open. I don't wanna see your family photos on your desktop. I don't wanna see icons. I don't wanna see anything.
Aaron
00:34:20 – 00:34:58
My attention, the viewers attention, they're barely hanging on. That's kinda what you have that's kinda what you have to remember is, like, okay, they're trying to learn here, you must give them every advantage possible. So if you're teaching Excel, hide everything except the sheet you're working on. If you're teaching them coding, hide one see line numbers, honestly. But I just wanna see the one thing that you're trying to show me and then guide me along that journey together, like bring me along.
Aaron
00:34:58 – 00:35:11
And so those are some of the things that I think about from like all the way back at the beginning. How do you figure out what you're gonna say to how do we keep these these people who want to learn, how do we help them? How do we keep them on track? I
Arvid
00:35:11 – 00:35:40
love this, like three kinds of focus: focus on the right people, focus on a narrative that is actually relatable and people can just stay in touch with without losing themselves in the details, and then focus on the minimalism of showing exactly what they need to see and nothing more. Very cool. I love that most of these things have nothing to do with, yeah, the exception of the third part, with the actual recording. Yeah. This is this is the preparation is so much more important than the act of recording something on your screen.
Arvid
00:35:40 – 00:35:59
How much time did you spend preparing for this course and then, you know, doing the script writing and all that kind of stuff? I know that the outcome is 4 and a half hours of course, which is significant. I Yeah. Would love to know how many hours of actual recording went in there, but Yeah. Even even before that, like, how much can you give me, like, a little timetable of how much Yeah.
Arvid
00:35:59 – 00:36:00
For sure.
Aaron
00:36:00 – 00:36:57
So I released the MySQL for developers course, at work for PlanetScale. I released that in, like, early March of this year, and that's when I started getting, like, the feedback I would love to learn. And so at that point I started, like, right then when I realized, oh, shoot, I should teach something about this. I sat down, and I I wrote down every single thing that I thought I did well, and every single thing I thought I did poorly, and every single thing I, like, learned or trick I thought I had or way that I did screencasting that I thought made me effective. And so that's my first, like, that's my first, when it comes to planning your content that's my my first piece of guidance is just either in your research phase or if, like me, your research is, like, from practice, then sit down and write down everything.
Aaron
00:36:57 – 00:37:14
It doesn't even have don't worry about structure, don't worry about form, modules, videos, breakdown, just write down, that one editing thing that I do, I think that makes this really fast. Good. This one this one trick on, you know, flipping the video, I should teach them that at some point. Boom. Boom.
Aaron
00:37:14 – 00:37:55
Boom. And, you know, at the end you end up with a 100 line document of random little, like, half thoughts of, that was a good idea. I should put that somewhere. And then so, like, that was in March. And then, you know, I've got, you know, 2 kids and a job, and so, like, over the next several months, it just kind of percolated in my mind, and Like I'm doing YouTube videos for personal stuff, I'm doing YouTube videos for work, and every time I think, oh, this is a good new, like, little workflow thing I just learned, let's throw that in the notes document.
Aaron
00:37:56 – 00:39:21
And that is like an unbeatable that's an unbeatable technique. It's hard because it takes like, you have to put it on the shelf and let it cook for a while, and if you're on a short timeline that's tough. But letting it cook for a little while really helps like And and I so I did I did that in, like, 2 or 3 weeks. And I took a huge break, because our family went somewhere for a couple weeks during the summer because I live in Texas, and it's a 1000000000 degrees. And then when I came home, I kinda had a realization that, like, I think I didn't define the audience wrong.
Aaron
00:39:21 – 00:40:05
Like, I defined the audience very strictly as, developers who wanted to learn how to teach something. And I I realized when I came home that I had been maybe I had been maybe selling myself short, and I could just with a few, like, different examples and a few different words here and there, I could broaden that audience to content creators. And I realized, wait, why am I, like, I am a developer, but I don't have to constantly be saying, you know, get checkout. Like, I don't have to say that kind of stuff. I can use examples that are coding examples, but also talk about the person who's really good at Excel and wants to teach attorneys how to use Excel, and then it immediately becomes more accessible.
Aaron
00:40:05 – 00:40:23
And so I rerecorded everything. I re recorded every single video when I was about 80% done. And I I it took me 5 days and I was up till 2:30. You know, after work, I would start, and I'd stay up till 2:30 each night, and I just plowed through it. So I wouldn't recommend doing it that way.
Aaron
00:40:24 – 00:40:39
That's why defining your audience is so important. But I also felt like, yeah, I was thinking kinda small. Like, I wonder what it it would look like to think bigger, and that was the answer. And so I just I just redid it out of, like, excitement. I was so pumped and so it was quick the second time.
Arvid
00:40:39 – 00:40:53
I can I can feel that? And it must be so nice. I mean, in retrospect, it makes sense, right, to have a trial run to record the whole thing and see it. It it probably felt weird to do it again, but at the same time, you you you knew you'd already done it. Mhmm.
Arvid
00:40:53 – 00:41:09
So you know it's possible, you know you can make it happen, you can make it even better, that is so cool. And I I was about to ask you how you handle all of, you know, your job, the projects that you have, the family and and all that, but I guess you just answered it. You just like didn't sleep, right?
Aaron
00:41:09 – 00:41:17
Yep. Yeah. So I'm always careful of being descriptive and not prescriptive. I will describe what I am doing. Please.
Arvid
00:41:17 – 00:41:17
Yeah, please.
Aaron
00:41:17 – 00:41:37
What you do with your own life is, of course, up to you. But I feel I feel like at this point in my life so I have a full time job. My wife and I have 2 year old twins, and, surprisingly, we are expecting twins Yeah. In, late November, early December. So there's a lot on the even on the family front, there's a whole lot going on there.
Aaron
00:41:37 – 00:42:16
And I think I have I have decided and I made this decision maybe, you know, 2 years ago or something, that this is not my this is not my kickback and and chill phase of my life. I look at a lot of people online. Like, let's look at Daniel Vassallo. I look at him and I'm like, he's working a little bit, and he's making a lot of money, and he's building a house, and he's going down to the beach, and, like, I'm really happy for him. And it's hard for me not to look at that and say, I need to emulate the outcome of what he's doing and not think, like, how did he get there?
Aaron
00:42:16 – 00:42:40
Like, how do these people that are, like, yeah, you should really go snowboarding at at noon on a Tuesday. It's like, I would love to. I truly would. And, I think I finally released myself from the guilt of feeling like, oh, I can't work hard because these people who have, you know, made it in my own made up terms, they're telling me that I shouldn't work hard. And it's like, well, yeah, they've made it.
Aaron
00:42:40 – 00:43:30
And so I've decided that for me, this is my I don't wanna say hustle because it's so laden, that's really helpful. And knowing that this is my maximum effort era with hopes of there being a semi retired leisurely builder era following it. Like, that's really helpful for me. And I think I've decided I've decided that there are lots of things that I'm willing to sacrifice and a few that I'm not. Like, I can't tell you besides Foundation, which I think I'm like 6 episodes behind on.
Aaron
00:43:30 – 00:43:49
I can't tell you what the newest TV shows are. I don't watch professional or collegiate sports. Fortunately, I don't care that much about them, but I also just don't watch them. People are talking about, Baldur's Gate. Some like, there are video games that I truly I don't even know what they are.
Aaron
00:43:49 – 00:44:09
And so a lot of those things, I'm fine saying I just don't care. On the other hand, I am out of this office at 5:45 or 6 o'clock because you know what happens then? Dinner time, kids, bath time, bed time. And, like, sorry. I don't I don't miss that.
Aaron
00:44:09 – 00:44:38
I don't I don't miss that. But you know what happens at 7:30 or 8? Back back to work. And that's how I've chosen to live my life because, like a musician who's trying to make it, like an author who wants the big break, like a painter who's trying to get discovered, like, I'm trying to make it. And it's it's weird because it's like the thing I do all day for w two money is shaped almost exactly like the thing I do in pursuit of, like, my noble ambitions.
Aaron
00:44:38 – 00:45:02
And so it feels like it feels like, oh, man, you're just a you're just a hustle bro, and I'm like, but but what if I was a sculptor? Like, would you say the same thing? Like, I feel like this thing that I'm doing, in my, in my, like, effortful hours, I feel like this thing that I'm doing is the thing I want to be doing. It is the art. It is the thing that I'm trying to, like, birth into the world.
Aaron
00:45:02 – 00:45:19
And maybe I play, you know, to be a musician, maybe I play in crappy bars forever, but maybe I enjoy it the whole time, and maybe I get a hit. And, like, that's what I'm thinking. This is this is my time to try because I'm not getting any younger.
Arvid
00:45:19 – 00:45:24
Yeah. Wow. Thanks for sharing this. And, honestly, I think you are the hit. Yeah.
Arvid
00:45:26 – 00:45:48
Really, like the the fact that you so publicly share all these things and and you the the success you just had and are still having with this launch, that
Aaron
00:46:08 – 00:46:27
How could I not? Yep. And I think that is the I think that is the thing that, like, that's the thing that keeps me going is I feel like, 1, I just, I'm having a lot of fun. Like, I'm enjoying the actual producing of the vessel, like, the thing. I enjoy making it.
Aaron
00:46:27 – 00:47:01
And then this, like, this one in particular, like, a lot of my talks and stuff have resonated, but I feel like this this, you know, most recent artifact is kind of a culmination of, like, a lot of what I believe about, like, putting yourself out there combined with some, like, technical, really nitty gritty, do this, don't do that. And I put it together in this package, and I'm like, this is kind of a microcosm of the things that I care about and believe. And people like it, and it's really encouraging. And so, yeah, it's like, this is good. I get energy from this.
Aaron
00:47:01 – 00:47:04
Yeah. So I'm gonna keep going for, you know, for as long as I can.
Arvid
00:47:04 – 00:47:11
Yeah. I I can tell. Yeah. You are full of energy, and it's really nice to see. And I I love that you're all doing all of this in public too.
Arvid
00:47:11 – 00:47:28
Right? You you could do this just hiding somewhere, building your product. Obviously, you couldn't because it's all part of Yeah. Like a a presence, but, I'm glad you're doing it. So if people would like to find you and follow this amazing journey that you're on and see the things that you're building as you're building them Republic, where would you like them to go?
Aaron
00:47:28 – 00:47:34
Absolutely Twitter. Twitter.com/aarondfrancis, d as in Daniel.
Arvid
00:47:34 – 00:48:13
Nice. Well, I I certainly follow you there, and I would highly recommend following you there as well. And I've I've I'm so glad you made you made this course because you you can learn a lot about presenting yourself and building a studio, right? We didn't even get to talk about all your fancy tech, but I I think that's, that's for people to find out actually in your course or a future conversation, in a couple of months or years from now. Man, I'm so so glad you shared all of this with me today, and I I really I can really feel, like, from this conversation and from all the things you've been doing in public, how how how much you care, and that you cannot stop yourself from helping people through your work.
Arvid
00:48:13 – 00:48:30
And I appreciate this a lot, I bet there's 1,000 if not tens or hundreds of thousands of people out there that are appreciating this, which is a scary thought, but it's also an amazing thought. And I I just wanna thank you for your work and for everything you do and for being here on the show. So thank you so much, man. That's you're you're awesome.
Aaron
00:48:31 – 00:48:38
Well, you're extremely kind to say so, and I've been a huge fan and follower for a long time, so it's an honor for me to be here. So thanks for having me.
Arvid
00:48:38 – 00:48:47
I appreciate it. Thanks so much. And that's it for today. I wanna briefly thank my sponsor, acquire.com. Imagine this.
Arvid
00:48:47 – 00:48:59
You're a founder who's built this really amazing SaaS product. You acquired customers, and all of this is generating really consistent monthly recurring revenue. The dream. Right? The problem is you're not growing for whatever reason.
Arvid
00:48:59 – 00:49:08
Maybe it's like a focus or skill or lack of interest, you just don't know. You feel stuck in your business. That's what you know. You're stuck with your business. What should you do?
Arvid
00:49:08 – 00:49:39
Well, the story that I and many other people in our community probably would like to hear is that you buckled down, reignited your fire, you got going, you worked on the business, not just in the business, and all these things like audience building, marketing, sales, outreach, and whatever you did it. And 6 months down the road, you've made all that money. You've tripled your revenue, and you have this super successful business, and everybody loves you for it. Reality, unfortunately, is not as simple as this. And the situation that you might be in right now is different for every founder who's facing this crossword.
Arvid
00:49:39 – 00:50:23
Too many times though, the story here ends up being one of inaction and stagnation at worst until the business becomes less and less valuable over time or completely worthless in the end. So if you find yourself here already, or you think your story is likely headed down a similar road in the future, I would consider a third option that's selling your business on acquire.com. Might be, might not be, just look into it. It's always a good idea. Thank you so much for listening to the boots we found out today.
Arvid
00:50:23 – 00:50:48
You can find me on Twitter at avid kahl, aavid kahl. You find my books on my Twitter course there too. Hey, hey, if you wanna support me in the show, which I would really appreciate, subscribe to my YouTube channel, that would be great, and get the podcast new player of choice, and leave a 5 star rating and a review by going to ratethispodcast.com/founder or wherever you find my podcast in your app. It makes a massive difference if you show up there because then the podcast will show up in other people's feeds. That's kind of where we want them.
Arvid
00:50:48 – 00:50:56
Right? We want to help our friends to learn a little bit. So any of this really helps to show. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful day, and bye bye.
Me

Thanks for reading! My name is Aaron and I write, make videos, and generally try really hard.

If you ever have any questions or want to chat, I'm always on Twitter.

You can find me on YouTube on my personal channel or the Try Hard Studios channel.

If you love podcasts, I got you covered. You can listen to me on Mostly Technical.