Aaron Francis

The Rails SaaS Conference
Andrew's announcement
Jason Cohen's famous MicroConf talk (from around the era we were talking about)

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Transcript

Aaron

00:00:00 – 00:00:03

Hey, man. So have you launched any conferences recently?

Andrew

00:00:05 – 00:00:24

Yeah. That happened. Hey, so before we talk about that, it was great to see you in real life at RailsConf of all places.

Aaron

00:00:25 – 00:00:41

I know. My first RailsConf. Yeah. It was so good to see you and Colleen and to finally meet some of my Internet friends. So I I felt like I got to finally interact with people in real life after, you know, so long.

Aaron

00:00:41 – 00:00:56

So I had a blast. It's not my community. It's not my framework, but everyone there was so nice, so welcoming. Didn't make me feel like an outsider, except you when you rolled down the window and yelled Laravel forever.

Andrew

00:00:58 – 00:01:02

When we were driving around in the Yeah. That's funny. I forgot about that.

Aaron

00:01:02 – 00:01:13

Yeah. It was great. It was good to see everyone. I had a great time. It was kind of a pain to get all the way out there from Dallas, but totally worth it and excited for more in person conferences.

Andrew

00:01:14 – 00:01:25

Yeah. I'm excited for y'all to get back to that in the Laravel ecosystem as well. The Laravel ecosystem throws legendary oh, I shouldn't say the the ecosystem. Taylor throws

Aaron

00:01:25 – 00:01:25

It's Taylor.

Andrew

00:01:26 – 00:01:34

Yeah. He throws legendary events. I think it's incredible. And you didn't only attend RailsConf, you and Colleen both presented.

Aaron

00:01:35 – 00:01:46

Yeah. It was great. It was the first time you know, I've done some presentations. Colleen's done a ton, but it was the first time we'd ever presented anything together, and we were just vibing. It felt great.

Aaron

00:01:46 – 00:02:00

It felt like 2 stand up comics. I mean, we weren't doing comedy, but it felt like we had the right rapport and the right back and forth, and it just felt like this is something we could definitely do a bunch more times.

Andrew

00:02:01 – 00:02:37

Absolutely. And it was a trial by fire because there were some hiccups with the infrastructure in the workshop conference rooms, which is kinda hard when you're trying to do something where it depends on everybody being able to download RubyGems and connect to websites and stuff like that. But you both rolled with the punches and sort of did an incredible job of managing that situation and still giving the folks that had come to see what you were talking about really, really good information, a really good experience. And I heard, as an attendee, just really great things about the session and really enjoyed it myself, so that was really fun.

Aaron

00:02:38 – 00:02:55

Yeah. Thanks. There were some infrastructure hiccups, but I feel like we recovered nicely and still did a great job, which is in some ways even more fun than if everything just went perfectly. Like, we had to really think on our feet, and it went as good as it could have gone. So, yeah, super pumped about that.

Aaron

00:02:55 – 00:02:59

And then I got to watch you and all of our other friends on a podcast panel.

Andrew

00:03:00 – 00:03:33

Yeah. Absolutely. So we actually have to set this up a little bit because it's a fun thing that all the hosts that were on the podcast panel, they invited a bunch of folks from the sort of Rails ecosystem podcasts to do a podcast together, and we all sort of agreed, we'll do this together, and then we'll release it to our respective feeds. And it's interesting because a lot of the podcast hosts in the Rails ecosystem have Rails specific podcasts, and we're sort of an exception to that. We do talk about Rails a lot, but we also have a number of people listening that are like Laravel, other frameworks, things like that.

Andrew

00:03:33 – 00:03:54

This is more of a a meta podcast. And so what we'll do with it, we'll release the episode. And for those who are interested in kind of getting this insight, like an insider's view to the Rails ecosystem, you can go ahead and listen to that and hear from some of the incredible contributors that we've got in our ecosystem. So I hope everybody enjoys that. We'll release it as a separate episode after this one.

Andrew

00:03:54 – 00:04:01

So you'll see that pop up in your feed probably in the next day or 2. And if that's something that you're interested in checking out, we hope you enjoy it.

Aaron

00:04:02 – 00:04:26

So speaking of conferences, RailsConf was great, good to see people. I think we have a lot to talk about here because rumor has it, you accidentally sold out a conference in a single day. So tell me about the RAILSS SaaS conference and your experience yesterday launching a conference.

Andrew

00:04:27 – 00:05:08

What a weird thing to happen going into not being a conference organizer and having a thought to do something for the first time, and you're kinda like, yeah, I know there's gonna be some people that show up, but I don't know. I have a limited degree of confidence in how big this could potentially be. And so when you're having these conversations, like, you sort of hedge it. I tried to derisk this thing as much as possible, not overplan it, not overcommit on anything, but just kind of do, like, an MVP version of a conference, mostly in terms of size. And in that way, be relatively confident.

Andrew

00:05:08 – 00:05:42

You know, if this doesn't go well, if this doesn't resonate, if people don't wanna do this or travel for it or meet up or whatever, then that's fine. I'm not gonna lose my shirt, but we can roll with it. We can set expectations accordingly. And the reality is the total opposite happened. So whatever it was, whether there's pent up demand for conferences, when I shared my vision for this thing that I had been working on, it resonated, and within the first day, all the tickets sold out.

Aaron

00:05:42 – 00:06:04

So you and I have been talking about it a little bit, and then you tweeted it, and it seemed like it just went crazy. So back up a little bit before yesterday and tell me where this idea came from, what the idea even is, and, like, what the goal of the conference is. And I I mentioned it briefly, but tell us the name of it again.

Andrew

00:06:05 – 00:06:34

Yeah. So the conference is the Rails SaaS Conference, and for the folks that haven't already seen it, it is in downtown Hollywood, California at a hotel called Dream, which is an awesome hotel. It's a place that I regularly go for lunch, meetings. They have this great rooftop restaurant. The hotel itself is a whole vibe and that neighborhood is a whole vibe.

Andrew

00:06:34 – 00:06:47

There's tons of restaurants, there's other great hotels with rooftops, and so, like, even though it's a relatively small hotel, it wasn't gonna be a problem selling out all the rooms because all the other hotels are, like, walking distance, and they're incredible too.

Aaron

00:06:48 – 00:07:04

So you and I had talked about this, and, you know, you were really excited about it. You thought, you know, it'll be a good chance to get a bunch of friends together. And then you tweeted it yesterday and it just blew up. I was watching it. I think you were out cruising the town.

Aaron

00:07:04 – 00:07:23

I was watching it on Twitter, and it was just, like, 30 retweets, 40, 50, 60. And everybody was, like, got my ticket? Oh, I got my ticket. Oh, I'm booking my hotel. So tell me, like, what was that feeling while you were out looking at the space and you're seeing all of these notifications come in?

Aaron

00:07:23 – 00:07:27

And then maybe after that, we can talk about the history. Yeah.

Andrew

00:07:27 – 00:08:03

I was horrified. So I don't mean to disclose this to anybody that might take advantage of the situation, but I leave my backpack in my car in a parking lot in Los Angeles while I'm out showing Colleen and Chris, my friends who are in town visiting, showing them around, doing some touring together. I'd never toured LA, the one that we did. It was really funny on the little tour bus and stuff like that. So we're out, and my watch is blowing up, and I'm seeing ticket after ticket after ticket, and I'm doing the math in my head because I don't even have a spreadsheet.

Andrew

00:08:03 – 00:08:19

This is starting to get uncomfortable. But it's also great, like, there's tons of good vibes coming in, people are responding, I'm getting DMs from people. Holy cow. This is gonna be great. And then the math starts going against me, and I realized we're getting close to over committed here.

Andrew

00:08:19 – 00:08:35

So good, not terrible, and I don't know off the top of my head. I can't remember. I've remembered some numbers wrong, basically. There are certain limits and things like that. I forgot some numbers of, oh, those tickets need to be available for these people and stuff like that.

Andrew

00:08:35 – 00:08:45

And it definitely did get to a point where the math was against me, and then there were yeah. It that and I thought, like, I'll figure it out. I'll I'll we'll figure out something. There's flexibility.

Aaron

00:08:45 – 00:08:56

It's so funny because you didn't obviously, you didn't plan for that because you didn't think it was gonna happen. And then it just exploded, and you're like, well, I think I've accidentally oversold or I've accidentally sold out.

Andrew

00:08:57 – 00:09:15

We set aside 20% of the available tickets at an early bird rate, and all of the tickets sold out. Oh oh, no. Actually and I felt so bad about that that they sold out so quickly that I tweeted out afterwards, like, I hate the idea of creating FOMO.

Aaron

00:09:15 – 00:09:16

Sure.

Andrew

00:09:16 – 00:09:28

I don't love messing with people's emotions as part of a sales process. That's just me. And I know some people rage against it. And I don't wanna take social hit of that. Like, those people that hate that, and they're like, you're Korean FOMO.

Andrew

00:09:29 – 00:09:52

But I did try to be clear in the initial sort of tweets that I put up. I think the early bird stuff at least is gonna sell out fast. That was a mistake because it set the expectation that I was only expecting to sell out the early bird stuff that day and when something different was actually happening. I didn't wanna create, like, a sales rush or anything like that. At this point, it was clear to me, like, this thing will sell out at some point.

Andrew

00:09:52 – 00:10:26

I don't need a sales rush, And I'm limited, physically limited because of the space that we're in. In the venue that we're contracted with, there's only gonna be so much that I can do to supply whatever demand comes through. So what I did when it was clear to me well, when we actually hit the number where, oh, we sold out all the early bird tickets, I posted a tweet and I said, the early bird ones are gone, but what I'll do is I'll leave it open at that price point today. So if you buy today, you'll get it at the early bird price, whatever. Like, I didn't say all that, but the idea was, like, this is a gesture of goodwill.

Andrew

00:10:26 – 00:10:30

Like, sorry, I misunderstood. Sure. I didn't mean to create FOMO. You're good. You're good.

Andrew

00:10:30 – 00:10:34

If you're gonna buy it today, you're good. Yeah. And then I went out for lunch.

Aaron

00:10:34 – 00:10:37

Then you went out for lunch, and all the tickets went out to people.

Andrew

00:10:37 – 00:10:56

We go out to lunch. And while we're out at lunch, I realized how excited Colleen Schnettler is. Sorry, Colleen. I'm just gonna say it. Absolutely pumped to do totally touristy stuff in Los Angeles.

Andrew

00:10:56 – 00:11:15

I didn't realize she had never been to LA before, so we actually ate lunch at the venue. I wanted to show it to her. She's speaking at the conference. I wanted her to be able to, like, visualize the space, all that stuff. So the security guy takes us up to the room, shows us around, we run upstairs, we grab lunch with our friend Chris Staggs, and it's an amazing place to eat lunch.

Andrew

00:11:15 – 00:11:47

Right? So, like, I always take the window seat so that they can look out the window, the Hollywood signs there. It is a little surreal, like, even if you're not into, like, Hollywood culture and stuff like that. Like, it's just cool because it's it's iconic. And I actually love seeing it with people because I take it for granted, but it's cool seeing people kinda just reconcile both the coolness and the uncoolness and, you know, whatever it is, what they always kind of imagined with what it actually is.

Andrew

00:11:47 – 00:11:57

And to be honest, there's a lot of good. There's a lot about the area that's just awesome, which wouldn't have been lost in them. They're from San Diego. Right? Like, San Diego is incredible, beautiful place.

Andrew

00:11:57 – 00:12:04

So we're doing that, and I find out Colleen's never been here before. She's loving this. She wants to do a bus tour. So we go out on the bus tour What?

Aaron

00:12:05 – 00:12:08

Yeah. We do. Touristy thing I can think of. Couple

Andrew

00:12:08 – 00:12:24

I'm not gonna unpack it. It was wild. Made me feel like, hey, I actually know our area pretty good, but it was totally worthwhile. It was a really great time. And then after that, I took them to one of my favorite places downtown, little restaurant called Perch, because it's toward the train station where they were gonna take off that evening.

Andrew

00:12:24 – 00:12:48

So we went, we got dinner at Perch, and that was that. Except my car is back at the hotel because we got to perch in an Uber together, and I have to get back to my car because that's where my laptop is, and now the math is turning against me. And so I go with them to the train station. I hop on the metro. At that point, like, an Uber is gonna be just a slow whatever.

Andrew

00:12:49 – 00:13:31

So I'm on the train watching and my battery's getting low, I'm watching Stripe notifications come in, and I get back to my laptop and tuck in at a restaurant just where my car was parked and realized there are things I need to do today that I didn't think I was gonna have to do. And so call my wife, tell her, like, I'm gonna be home a little late, figure out how to set up an email sign up list, just stuff that I thought I had more time to do, and figure out how to update the markup and the design and stuff to show that something's sold out that wasn't even there. So and yeah. Long story long, it was exhilarating and stressful. And as I'm deploying the sold out, notifications are still coming in.

Aaron

00:13:31 – 00:13:53

Wow. So it sounds like it went exceptionally well even beyond maybe your wildest expectations. I kinda wanna talk about why a conference. So we talked maybe a year ago or something about a bullet train conference, which Yep. This is, you know, distinct from.

Aaron

00:13:53 – 00:14:00

It's not totally the same. So I kinda wanna talk about why a conference and what are you hoping to get from it?

Andrew

00:14:01 – 00:14:19

Yeah. This is not a Bullet Train conference. So I will give a presentation and it will be about Bullet Train, which is a tool in the brails ecosystem. And the purpose of the original bullet train conference that I was thinking of doing in the same space actually was we just had a growing customer base. We had bigger teams using Bullet Train.

Andrew

00:14:19 – 00:14:49

It was being deployed in bigger situations with bigger budgets and all of that. We had this, like, growing Slack community, and nobody really knows one another. I mean, maybe it's not like that with all Slack support communities, but it was something that Jesse Hanley told me he had moved Bento's support over to a Discord. And he said it was a total game changer in terms of community, and so we did the same thing when we went open source. And we keep our Slack open for existing customers who preferred that as a channel for communication.

Andrew

00:14:49 – 00:15:07

But, really, all of our effort and all of our intake goes into the all of our open source stuff goes into the the Discord. It's just it's been such a better platform and more open and inviting and everything. Right? Like, good vibes. And in Slack, it feels very business y, very transactional.

Andrew

00:15:07 – 00:15:42

It didn't have a vibe at all. So the idea that I had though back then was it would be great to do an event where we can consolidate some of the efforts. Like, I go on-site with customers, I help people be successful with bullet train, and there's only so much of that that you can do before you have to, like, level up or scale up. And so doing a user conference seemed like a way to do that. So we'd get all these people together, and we would plan and conspire and share and collaborate as people that were interested in this thing that on our side, we were building it, and on their end, they were using it.

Andrew

00:15:42 – 00:16:13

This can only be good to get all of these people together. So that was the original plan, and that is something that we will try to figure out maybe adjacent to an event like this. We can do, like, a a day where the really, like, died in the wool bowl of trained people can get together and plan and conspire and do all that stuff that I talked about. But in the very end, after doing this planning and getting stuff lined up and having a vision for what the event could be, we end up going in a totally different direction.

Aaron

00:16:13 – 00:16:38

Yeah. So that totally makes sense to me with the bullet train history. And I feel like even as the bullet train model has changed from paid product to open source, this conference idea that you've had has kinda morphed along the way. And now you've landed at the RAILSS SaaS conference. And so what is your vision for, I guess, what the talks are gonna look like and what the vibe is gonna be.

Aaron

00:16:38 – 00:16:50

And I know that you mentioned your primary goal in going to a conference is the hallway track. So now that you're a conference planner, how do you allow for that in a conference that you have control over?

Andrew

00:16:50 – 00:17:08

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So I do say that on that panel that we talked about earlier, they asked which sessions we were interested in attending most of all, and it kinda caught me off guard because I kinda do that on the fly. I just kinda look around where people go, and I'm there for the hallway track, for the social component, for hanging out with people.

Andrew

00:17:08 – 00:17:28

And, basically, like, I just know a lot of people that I like catching up with at conferences. Like, I like having that touch point with people. And so even at a 3 day conference, there's not really enough time to hit all the conversations that you wanna have. And I always end up leaving feeling like there was somebody that I missed seeing or or couldn't make it happen with. Yeah.

Andrew

00:17:28 – 00:17:55

The hallway track is extremely important. I think that's one of the things that's baked into this conference. The venue is just cool and there's a ton of places to sit. Right? You've got, like, table seating if you wanna bust open your laptop and work on something with somebody or you've got lobby seating, you've got a rooftop, you've got cabanas up on the roof that you can rent and sit in and whatever, and we'll probably end up, you know, like, sponsoring those or whatever so that people can just go up there and hang out.

Andrew

00:17:55 – 00:18:54

You've got seating so that if there is somebody that you need to catch up with, you're gonna do it in a way that's really comfortable. This will be one of the things where if we do this conference year after year, we'll probably do it, maybe not at this place if it needs to be bigger or whatever, but, like, it'll always be in Los Angeles, and it will probably land similar to MicroConf in the early days when it was always at the Tropicana, it'll probably land at the same event space year after year because then you can get it right. And one of the things that happens with conferences that go from place to place to place is some years are awesome in the venue, and some years, the venue doesn't work out as well. So some years, you're sitting on really comfortable couches for an hour, and other years, you're sitting in a windowsill breaking your back, trying to find you know, and stuff like that happens when the space has changed from year to year. And so I think that this space, clearly, we won't be able to use this space again, I think.

Andrew

00:18:54 – 00:19:05

Because there seems to be more demand for what we're doing than what the space will be able to provide, but it is perfectly suited for that hallway track.

Aaron

00:19:06 – 00:19:20

So are you planning to have a lot of downtime between sessions? Are you planning your sessions pretty sparsely? Do you have, like, explicit hallway track activities, or how are you thinking about that?

Andrew

00:19:20 – 00:19:45

Yeah. Oh, this is challenging because, originally, the schedule was extremely loose for that exact purpose. The idea was don't overdo it on talks, didn't want the talks themselves to be exhausting, like end early, stuff like that. We'll see. There's a a calculus because there's a tension that wasn't in mind for me initially.

Andrew

00:19:45 – 00:20:11

Before I realized, like, people are interested in this, there's another thing that comes with people being interested in it. You start hearing from from really interesting people that are expressing an interest in being at the event and sharing their stories and their experience. And, like, I already knew we had a great speaker lineup, but sometimes people show up at your door and you're like, we gotta get you in front of a crowd.

Aaron

00:20:11 – 00:20:12

Mhmm.

Andrew

00:20:12 – 00:20:33

This has to happen. And so it's kind of think about that carefully and see what moves I can make and things I can do to balance those 2 things. But I think, ultimately, even if I totally botch that up and I oversubscribe the schedule and whatever, people can choose pick and choose what they're gonna be around for. The one thing we won't have is 2 tracks. That's never gonna happen.

Aaron

00:20:33 – 00:20:34

It's gonna

Andrew

00:20:34 – 00:21:02

be a one track curated conference for all kinds of reasons. Sorry I laugh because I think of some of the experiences that I've had. But, yeah, there won't be 2 tracks. It'll always be a one track curated conference, and that's true of this initial iteration as well. So I'll figure it out and figure out something that makes it both the best version of itself on the content side while also making it clear to people, go hang out, have fun, and build those relationships.

Andrew

00:21:02 – 00:21:10

That's what really persists. Well, there's kinda 2 things that persist. The content does. Right? It goes online and that's a big that's a big deal.

Andrew

00:21:10 – 00:21:54

In fact, actually, while I'm on that point, I'll just say this, another impetus for compromising on my original vision and maybe allowing more people to speak to pack the content in just a little bit tighter is the fact that, like, I am over investing in content production. You'll see when you get there. It's gonna be a thing. It's gonna be a real Hollywood experience where content is the primary goal of what we're doing, and that will be evident in the way that the event is produced. So with that investment, you kinda think, like, it would be great to pack some more people in because that's more great content, and it's not just for the people at the conference.

Andrew

00:21:54 – 00:22:21

If we produce that content using the infrastructure that we've already paid for, it's already coming. You've already got these people, you've got the lights, you've got the cameras, you've got the audio, you've got this whole thing going, you've got the system in place, why not just crank out 4 more talks or 2 more talks or whatever more talks while you've got the system set up? And maybe that's the purpose of this conference going forward. And everybody will know it'll be a little quirky and, like, sometimes the presenter does another take on something. Interesting.

Andrew

00:22:21 – 00:22:29

That happens on podcasts. We'll be recording something and be like, man, I kinda lost my train of thought on that. You wanna do it again? Yeah. That's how a lot of podcasts are produced.

Andrew

00:22:29 – 00:23:00

Well, I am not against doing that. Like, if somebody's hair gets screwed up or something's going wrong, the audio's wonky, the camera guy can just say, hey, can you do that again? Start from the top. And everybody's gonna be prepared for it, everybody's gonna know what's going on, but we are here to produce incredible content that puts rails, modern rails, in the best possible light in the current marketplace of ideas for all the different frameworks. You gotta compete.

Andrew

00:23:01 – 00:23:09

So we're gonna make Rails look as amazing as all of us know it is. You know, it covered a lot there, but that's what we're doing.

Aaron

00:23:09 – 00:23:20

My takeaway is you are single handedly trying to revitalize the rails vibe. That's what I get. You are investing heavy in the you're leaning into Hollywood

Andrew

00:23:20 – 00:23:43

for rails. Never single handedly, Erin. We have a great ecosystem with incredible people, incredible teachers, incredible content producers, incredible tool creators. This is different. This is gonna be a difference between because y'all in the Laravel ecosystem benefit from Taylor's incredible taste.

Aaron

00:23:43 – 00:23:44

He has good taste.

Andrew

00:23:44 – 00:23:51

He has good taste, and he can pull off, he can execute Mhmm. He can create a vibe.

Aaron

00:23:51 – 00:24:12

He can create a vibe, and that's what I mean. I know you're not doing all the courses, you're not building all the packages. I feel like you're taking up a role as the vibe curator, and you're trying to, like, bring a little more vibe to Rails. Oh, absolutely. It's technically I won't say superior, but it's technically best of breed, Rails is.

Aaron

00:24:13 – 00:24:35

Just like Laravel is, just like many frameworks are. Yep. But I think we have realized there's a lot of hype going into other frameworks. Yep. There's a lot of big money JavaScript type going into all the JavaScript frameworks from these big platform, big companies, all the mindshare is going there.

Aaron

00:24:36 – 00:24:54

Meanwhile, rails, and to a lesser extent, Laravel, but rails is quietly plugging away and, you know, generating 1,000,000,000 of dollars of value for people. Yeah. And I feel like what you're seeing is some of the spotlight shifting, not for technical reasons, just for vibe reasons. And you're, like, no. No.

Aaron

00:24:54 – 00:25:08

No. We can vibe out. We can make rails vibey again. And that's what I'm getting from you. Like, you picked the bougiest hotel you could and you're making it the splashiest thing and you rent these limos at rails comp because I feel like you're trying to get the hype train rolling again.

Andrew

00:25:09 – 00:25:22

Yeah. No. I I think you identified that correctly. The only nuance I was gonna add to it is that it'll never be single handedly. And it's not the intention that this be the standard bearer of any particular type of conference or anything like that.

Andrew

00:25:22 – 00:26:01

In fact, there's an incredible twist on this, and this is a teaser. There's an incredible twist to this line of discussion that I won't unveil here, and it won't be unveiled by me, but we have somebody who's presenting that has a message for this conference that speaks to kind of what you're talking about. But most importantly, I think it's important to understand that it isn't intended to be single handed. It's intended to just be one example. And my hope would be that people will see this and also think about what they can do in their way.

Andrew

00:26:01 – 00:26:38

It doesn't have to be the same, but what can they do to contribute to the vibe, the marketing, the hype train of rails? Because that's valuable. If you want this thing to continue being the best version of itself, and we've talked about this before, you gotta figure out how to make as big and as appealing an on ramp to that ecosystem as possible. Otherwise, the newcomers to development, to entrepreneurial endeavors, they'll take a different on ramp onto a different freeway, and it won't be rails. Anyway, I'm already saying too much.

Andrew

00:26:39 – 00:26:41

Stay tuned. I think there's more to be said on that point.

Aaron

00:26:41 – 00:26:52

So give us a URL. What is it? Railssas.com. Railssas.com, killer URL. And it's October It's October 6/7/2022

Andrew

00:26:55 – 00:26:59

at Dream Hollywood Hotel in Los Angeles, California.

Aaron

00:27:00 – 00:27:19

Railsas.com, beautiful website, gorgeous pictures, has this great 19 eighties kinda neon vibe. I think the hotel helps you out with that with these great shots. So you've got these icons. One of them is Mina Swan live. Can you tell me what Mina Swan Live means?

Andrew

00:27:19 – 00:27:38

Yeah. Absolutely. I meant to mention this in the intro when you were talking about everybody was so nice, so nice hanging out with people. We have a phrase in the Ruby ecosystem more generally, and this goes way back. Mats is nice, and so we are nice.

Andrew

00:27:39 – 00:27:40

Right? And this is

Aaron

00:27:40 – 00:27:41

this one.

Andrew

00:27:41 – 00:27:58

Yeah. Right? So, Matt, the creator of Ruby, which another point, ended up retweeting our conference announcement, which totally if we weren't sold out, we would have been sold out at that point. I love that what we were doing resonates to, you know, the highest levels, so to speak.

Aaron

00:27:58 – 00:28:00

Good vibes all the way around.

Andrew

00:28:00 – 00:28:15

It's pretty nice. But Matt's is nice, and so we are nice. And I love that. So what that means in the conference of a business conference, I think, like, this is different, and we can maybe talk about that as well. But in the context of a business conference that overlaps with rails, Sure.

Andrew

00:28:15 – 00:28:41

The intersection of rails and business. What I kind of envision happening, and I can envision this because I've seen it happen before, In the early days of MicroConf, it was structurally different than it is now. In the early days so MicroConf now has this idea of MicroComp starter, micro comp growth. It's just a big deal. You have the local micro comps, which I think provide some of this opportunity as well.

Andrew

00:28:42 – 00:29:17

But, like, in the very early days of MicroConf when we were going to Tropicana each year, one of the incredible attributes of that conference was the most successful people in our corner of the Internet were hanging out with the people that were just getting started. Yep. And there was something incredible about the way Jason Cohen would sit through a conversation with you in the lobby and help you debug your growth plateau at 10 k MRR. Right? Like

Aaron

00:29:17 – 00:29:33

I literally had a conversation with Jason Cohen at the Tropicana. Are you serious? Yes. And he was a big deal back then, and Yeah. I remember him just giving me one on one attention, And I was like, man, this is crazy.

Aaron

00:29:33 – 00:29:36

And 1 year, the Collison Brothers came. Right?

Andrew

00:29:36 – 00:29:45

Yeah. Yeah. And the point is, he wasn't unique in that. No. There were many people that would just kinda lean in.

Andrew

00:29:45 – 00:30:29

I remember I invited somebody 1 year who was trying to get started in SaaS, and we ended up at dinner with a whole bunch of people that were real operators, operating real businesses. And what was incredible was the way that nobody wanted to talk about their business. They all wanted to talk about her business and, like, what she was trying to do and just throwing ideas out there, brainstorming things that she could do. That is the MicroConf magic. And I think I was changed by that, and it's important to me that now that we're doing this kind of, like, overlap, rails meets business conference, that has got to be there.

Andrew

00:30:29 – 00:30:52

And so the people that are speaking operate big companies. They've had big success. Some of them have made retirement money while holding down a full time job, right, because of their side sass or whatever, like, multiple people on the list. And their stories are not my stories to tell, so that's not always evident. When you look at a speaker list, you're like, who's this?

Andrew

00:30:53 – 00:31:20

And they're not there for no reason. I'm grateful that people that are in that situation still have the desire to see other people, the next cohort, the next generation, find the same success because it is an incredible opportunity. Being a software developer is an incredibly high leverage situation. It's a high leverage opportunity. And so it's just amazing that when people have found that success, they're not like, okay, peace.

Andrew

00:31:21 – 00:31:32

No. They stick around and they share the lessons that they've learned. They are also looking for another gear. They're also, in their businesses, looking for another level. And they that from each other, and they get ideas and whatever.

Andrew

00:31:32 – 00:31:50

Yeah. It just seems to me that there's a willingness among these, especially indie entrepreneurs, to help the next group. And to me, that's a very similar that's in line with with what I said there, the the Mina Swan Live. I know what happens from other experiences. What happens when you put all these people together, it's gonna blow your mind.

Aaron

00:31:51 – 00:31:55

Well, I think we leave it there. You have anything else you wanna cover?

Andrew

00:31:56 – 00:32:05

No. I'm good, man. I I appreciate having the opportunity to unpack this and and share the vision with everybody. I'm I'm really excited about it.

Aaron

00:32:05 – 00:32:17

Yeah. I'm excited for you. I'm excited for you to have the conference and then take all of those learnings and put them towards the framework friends conference that, we will eventually be doing.

Andrew

00:32:18 – 00:32:24

If you want to attend the framework friends conference, DM Aaron. He can he can organize it.

Aaron

00:32:25 – 00:32:31

No way. We're gonna take everything you've learned and just run it back to back so that I don't have to do anything. That sounds perfect.

Andrew

00:32:31 – 00:32:36

Very good. Framework Friends is edited by Paul Barr at Peachtree Sound.

Aaron

00:32:36 – 00:32:39

Our intro music was created by Corey Griffin.

Andrew

00:32:39 – 00:32:47

You can find us at frameworkfriends.com. Andrew's on Twitter at Andrew Culver. And Aaron is on Twitter at Aaron

Aaron

00:32:51 – 00:32:52

d Francis.