Aaron Francis

Ian & Aaron discuss Ian's vacation on the Outer Banks, Aaron's drive back from Vermont, Lift for Laravel, making videos for YouTube, & more. Sponsored by @LaraJobs & HelloQuery. Sent questions or feedback to mostlytechnicalpodcast@gmail.com

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Transcript

Ian

00:00:03 – 00:00:05

Alright. We're back. Episode 3.

Aaron

00:00:06 – 00:00:15

We are back, and we're I think we're both in different locations. I made it back I I made it back home to Texas, and so I'm back in in my normal setup. Where are you?

Ian

00:00:15 – 00:00:18

I'm in, the Outer Banks of North Carolina.

Aaron

00:00:19 – 00:00:19

Okay.

Ian

00:00:19 – 00:00:25

So, yeah, we've been in different spots every episode, I feel like. So I don't know. It might be hard to keep that up. True. Yeah.

Ian

00:00:25 – 00:00:26

Keep traveling.

Aaron

00:00:27 – 00:00:33

Yeah. So what's in the Outer Banks? This is not a part of, this is not a part of the country I'm familiar with.

Ian

00:00:35 – 00:00:44

So this is my first time here. I've never been here before. It's really great. It's, we normally go to Martha's Vineyard kind of almost every year. And this year, my family was going down here.

Ian

00:00:44 – 00:01:04

So my brother and my cousin, we decided to tag along with them. So we're all here. It's great. Like, beach right on the ocean or beach on the ocean house on the ocean. You know, ice cream and bunch of kids running around and this huge house with a pool and the beach and a million rooms and everything.

Aaron

00:01:04 – 00:01:07

Beach on is the beach on the ocean, or is the beach in town? Hopefully, the beach

Ian

00:01:07 – 00:01:07

is also

Aaron

00:01:07 – 00:01:08

on the ocean.

Ian

00:01:08 – 00:01:13

It's on the ocean. Okay. Good. Although we have this hurricane, I guess, coming or something. I don't know.

Ian

00:01:13 – 00:01:20

So we'll see. I don't think it's gonna hit us, but I think it's gonna be, like, 50 mile an hour winds and things like that. So

Aaron

00:01:20 – 00:01:28

Yeah. I think I just saw that this morning. So now is the, is the weather there, is it a 108 like it is in Dallas, or is it okay?

Ian

00:01:28 – 00:01:36

No. It's alright. It's been in the eighties, so it's been good beach weather. It's been warm and very humid, so kids have been wanting to get in the water and all that. That's been good.

Ian

00:01:36 – 00:01:48

Then hit the pool. I've never really had a setup quite like this before. It's nice because we have, like, the beach obviously out there. And then you come in from the beach, and there's the pool and the house. So, like, you know, you start at the beach, then you hit the pool.

Ian

00:01:48 – 00:01:56

It's kinda, like, fully cleansed and refreshed, and then boom. You're in the house hanging out. Okay. There's, like, the theater room. I watched Messi in here the other night.

Ian

00:01:56 – 00:01:58

My I'm watching Messi in here tonight again. So

Aaron

00:01:59 – 00:02:15

Amazing. That's really cool. I have I have opinions about the beach and the pool. Oh, interesting. The the beach the beach is kinda frustrating to me because the all the way that I've always done it is you pack up all your stuff, You schlep it out there onto the beach.

Aaron

00:02:16 – 00:02:24

It's, you know, it's a 100 degrees. You're covered in sand. You get out there, and then you're expected to just sit there in the salt and the

Ian

00:02:24 – 00:02:25

sun for

Aaron

00:02:25 – 00:02:38

hours, and then you gotta walk all the way back to the house for lunch. I love the pool. I love going to the beach and sitting in a pool. That is my absolute favorite. You can wander outside, hop in the pool, wander back inside.

Ian

00:02:49 – 00:03:05

But I discovered the secrets of the beach. And I will share with the audience the secrets of the beach. Okay? So this is actually why we ended up going to Martha's Vineyard as when the kids were little and for, like, 10 years or so. Because one of the big keys to the beach so out like, the dragging yourself to the beach, forget it.

Ian

00:03:05 – 00:03:16

It's the worst thing ever, Especially once you have kids, kids, all the stuff, the kids are running around. The whole thing's terrible. It's like, you're just suicidal after you just walked to the beach. You're like, that's it. So you can't do that.

Ian

00:03:16 – 00:03:21

Don't ever do that. You gotta buy a truck. K? You have a truck.

Aaron

00:03:21 – 00:03:27

Alright? This is a low barrier to entry. You gotta buy a truck. Okay. Yeah.

Aaron

00:03:27 – 00:03:28

Yeah. I know. Keep going.

Ian

00:03:28 – 00:03:32

This is America. Everybody uses their trucks as, like, minivans. It's fine.

Aaron

00:03:32 – 00:03:33

Okay. Yeah.

Ian

00:03:33 – 00:03:34

You have a truck. Keep it.

Aaron

00:03:35 – 00:03:35

You know

Ian

00:03:35 – 00:03:35

what I'll just do?

Aaron

00:03:35 – 00:03:40

I thought it was gonna be, like, pack an extra sandwich or something. But, yeah, buy a truck. Alright.

Ian

00:03:40 – 00:03:46

Keep on it. Truck. Alright. Truck is best. You could use SUV or even a minivan with 4 wheel drive.

Ian

00:03:46 – 00:03:54

But, you know, truck is best for a lot of reasons, which I could I could tell you about. You get a truck. You find a beach that lets you drive on the beach. Okay?

Aaron

00:03:54 – 00:03:55

Okay.

Ian

00:03:55 – 00:03:57

This is the solution to all your problems.

Aaron

00:03:57 – 00:03:58

I see I see where this is going.

Ian

00:03:58 – 00:04:01

Yes. Because alright. So everything's in the back of the truck. Right?

Aaron

00:04:01 – 00:04:01

Yeah.

Ian

00:04:01 – 00:04:11

Drive to the beach. You don't have to stay near the near the water. So if you wanna save money, if it's like, you know, beach vacation can be quite expensive if you wanna be on the water. Right? So forget that.

Ian

00:04:11 – 00:04:12

You stay inland.

Aaron

00:04:12 – 00:04:13

Buy a truck. Yeah.

Ian

00:04:13 – 00:04:23

You buy a truck with your savings. You drive onto the beach. Okay? You park your truck an inch from the water. You push all the stuff out the back.

Ian

00:04:23 – 00:04:36

It's there. You didn't carry anything. You have a huge ass cooler with tons of food. If you have little kids, alright, it's gonna get gross for a second. But you have a little portable potty that's got the little ziplock baggy thing.

Ian

00:04:36 – 00:04:38

Can go to the bathroom right there.

Aaron

00:04:38 – 00:04:38

You don't

Ian

00:04:38 – 00:04:49

have to take them to the bathroom back anywhere. And when they're done, you pile everything into the truck. It takes 2 seconds. You drive off the beach. Most of the drive on beaches usually end up with a huge area of beach all to yourself.

Aaron

00:04:50 – 00:04:50

Yep.

Ian

00:04:50 – 00:04:54

It's it's the best thing ever. It's fabulous. Okay. So that's my recommendation.

Aaron

00:04:54 – 00:05:03

Okay. One fatal flaw is you have to buy a new vehicle, but other than that, it's flawless. I guess, you know, if you're if you're flying, you could rent a you could rent a truck

Ian

00:05:03 – 00:05:11

when you get there. So that's something rental jeeps and trucks and things like that, so you could rent it. And then, hey. A lot of people now, they just have I mean, you're in Texas. Tell me there's no trucks down there.

Ian

00:05:11 – 00:05:12

Everybody's got a truck.

Aaron

00:05:12 – 00:05:21

Oh, everybody everybody's got a truck. Yeah. Everybody's got a truck. I could borrow a truck from from anyone around here. So here's here's something I saw on Twitter that kinda blew my mind.

Aaron

00:05:21 – 00:05:32

You're on this trip, and you're like, hey. I'm gonna go to this amazing little roadside restaurant that nobody's ever heard of. It's called a Waffle House. I've never been before. What?

Aaron

00:05:32 – 00:05:34

You've never been to a Waffle House?

Ian

00:05:34 – 00:05:42

Waffle House. This has been on my list of things to do for a very long time. I don't know if I've ever even seen a Waffle House. It's crazy. Like, I know.

Ian

00:05:42 – 00:05:51

It's not even like I've been avoiding them. I I don't even believe I've had the opportunity because usually I would take the opportunity, thing like that. I've been waiting for forever because it's like Waffle House. Do they not have them

Aaron

00:05:51 – 00:05:53

do they not have them in in the north?

Ian

00:05:53 – 00:05:59

North northeast of the Waffle Houses that I've ever seen. So, yeah. Waffle House.

Aaron

00:05:59 – 00:05:59

What did

Ian

00:05:59 – 00:06:05

you say? Very impressed. So it's I mean, I'm the day I tweeted that, you said you would go on there for breakfast. So there you go. It's like your breakfast.

Ian

00:06:07 – 00:06:09

It's a regular staple, but it was great.

Aaron

00:06:09 – 00:06:10

It really is.

Ian

00:06:10 – 00:06:14

Vegetables. There's, like, there's waffles, and that's it. And, like, you know, sandwiches, hash browns.

Aaron

00:06:15 – 00:06:21

Put it on my tombstone, which Yeah. Unfortunately may be coming soon if I keep going to Waffle House. But yeah.

Ian

00:06:21 – 00:06:21

It was good.

Aaron

00:06:21 – 00:06:23

It's like an American classic.

Ian

00:06:23 – 00:06:24

Okay. So I was surprised.

Aaron

00:06:24 – 00:06:45

Waffle House is Waffle House is everywhere down here. Right. They also, like, weirdly never close. And Right. They they have I don't know if they have a super robust, supply chain or what, but there's, like, a way that you can measure how bad, natural disaster is, and it's, like, called the Waffle House index.

Aaron

00:06:45 – 00:07:06

It's, like, how quickly did Waffle House reopen slash did they ever close? It's very interesting. I don't know the full details, but Waffle Houses are everywhere down here. I went on, I guess that was would have been Friday, for breakfast. So every every 3 weeks, we have this group of guys that gets together and goes goes to breakfast.

Aaron

00:07:07 – 00:07:23

It's like the only time everyone is available is, you know, 7 AM on Friday morning. So there are, like, there are probably 8 of us in this group. And, yeah, it's awesome. And Real world. We usually we usually go to this place called John's Cafe, which is terrible.

Ian

00:07:23 – 00:07:24

Mhmm.

Aaron

00:07:24 – 00:07:44

But when there are only when there are 5 or fewer of us to RSVP, yes, we go to Waffle House because Waffle House has, you know, those tables that you cannot move that only see 4 people. Yeah. Yes. So we'll go to Waffle House, and the food is incredible. It is, like, it's the dirtiest dineriest place you've ever been, but the food is amazing.

Aaron

00:07:44 – 00:07:52

And they, like you ask for eggs soft scrambled, and they make eggs soft scrambled. Like, they know how to make eggs. It's it's great. I love Waffle House.

Ian

00:07:53 – 00:08:08

Well, I love those places see that it's like, and I'm sure this goes into that index. It's like, there's basically, like, what, like, 10 ingredients on the whole menu. You know? It's just like the same things, just like ordered differently. And and so, like, yeah, they probably have an easy time reopening, and they only have to know how to do a few things.

Ian

00:08:08 – 00:08:21

You can get a chef. It's not like they're making a bunch of, like, a regular diet. In the northeast, we have tons of regular diners and it's just like they have 400 items. There's like pot roast and eggs and whatever sandwiches and pasta and whatever. It does all these different things.

Ian

00:08:21 – 00:08:28

And usually it's all gross. And I want us to get waffle houses. I need waffle. The other thing. So I need waffle houses.

Ian

00:08:28 – 00:08:34

These are my big things from the south. I need waffle houses and I need brew throughs. Do you have brew through there?

Aaron

00:08:34 – 00:08:35

A brew through.

Ian

00:08:35 – 00:08:36

I think I

Aaron

00:08:36 – 00:08:41

know what that is, but I don't I've I don't know if that's a brand name. That's not something we

Ian

00:08:41 – 00:08:44

say down here. Okay. It's like, it's like a car

Aaron

00:08:44 – 00:08:45

wash. Okay. Alright.

Ian

00:08:45 – 00:08:53

Like a drive through car wash, but when you drive through it, instead of your car getting washed, there's just refrigerators along the side. Yeah. You get beer.

Aaron

00:08:53 – 00:08:53

Yeah.

Ian

00:08:53 – 00:09:00

And you just drive. Yeah. It's unbelievable. I'm like, what genius thought of this? Like, I don't know why you don't have these in the northeast.

Ian

00:09:00 – 00:09:02

Like, just drive through and get your beer.

Aaron

00:09:02 – 00:09:12

Yeah. Amazing. That's I didn't realize that was something that wasn't everywhere. Yeah. We have I think we call them, in Texas, we have a few beer barns, drive through beer barns.

Ian

00:09:12 – 00:09:12

Yeah.

Aaron

00:09:12 – 00:09:30

And then I do remember in, so I went to I went to college at Texas A&M's, which is down in, you know, College Station, small small town. Mhmm. We had a drive through margarita barn. And so they would yeah. So you could drive through and get all kinds of different margaritas.

Aaron

00:09:30 – 00:09:39

And for the dear listener, you would not drink them until you got home, obviously, because they would put tape over the lid, and it was you couldn't open it. It was impossible. There was a little piece of tape on it. It was

Ian

00:09:41 – 00:09:42

like, oh,

Aaron

00:09:42 – 00:09:45

I guess I'll have to wait until I get to yeah. To open it.

Ian

00:09:45 – 00:09:45

You need scissors.

Aaron

00:09:46 – 00:09:53

You need scissors. Yeah. So yeah, that's funny. Yeah. Waffle House and beer barns and and a truck on every corner.

Aaron

00:09:53 – 00:09:55

That's a Right. You got it. That's the south.

Ian

00:09:55 – 00:09:56

There we go.

Aaron

00:09:56 – 00:09:57

Back, baby. I love

Ian

00:09:57 – 00:10:08

being home. I know. I don't I don't get down to, like, this part, like, southeast, south that much. Like, it's only every few years. Like, I sometimes end up in Florida or a place like that, which sort of its own weird thing.

Ian

00:10:08 – 00:10:09

I don't know.

Aaron

00:10:09 – 00:10:10

It is its own weird thing. Yeah.

Ian

00:10:10 – 00:10:10

Yeah.

Aaron

00:10:10 – 00:10:13

Don't don't don't put that don't ascribe that to us. I don't want Florida.

Ian

00:10:13 – 00:10:22

It doesn't feel like North Carolina, Virginia type south to me. I don't know. Seems different. So, yeah, it's been been great. How was your drive back?

Ian

00:10:22 – 00:10:24

Because you were making the long haul there.

Aaron

00:10:24 – 00:10:34

I was. Yeah. Made the long haul. Made it made it back. Listened to book 2 of the 3 Body Problem trilogy, the entire way.

Aaron

00:10:34 – 00:10:37

Incredible. It's so, so good.

Ian

00:10:37 – 00:10:37

I'm excited.

Aaron

00:10:37 – 00:10:47

It is unlike any sci fi book I've ever read. So it it's it's very, very good. And the second book has this has this, like,

Ian

00:10:49 – 00:10:49

I don't know,

Aaron

00:10:49 – 00:11:05

maybe literary device that is extremely it just it keeps your mind spinning the entire time of, like, how how would I what would I do in this situation? How would I it's, like, almost like a logic puzzle that the characters are playing through,

Ian

00:11:05 – 00:11:06

and it's the same.

Aaron

00:11:06 – 00:11:23

It's very good. So highly recommended. I made 2 stops. I stopped in Cleveland again, and then I stopped in Little Rock, Arkansas, about 4 and a half hours from home. I thought I could power through.

Aaron

00:11:23 – 00:11:31

But, man, once when you're driving and the sleepies hit, you don't wanna you don't wanna battle the sleepies on the road because it's takes 2 seconds and you're gone.

Ian

00:11:31 – 00:11:37

Yeah. 4 hours is still it's a pretty good haul, the power through Yeah. Extremes tiredness. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

00:11:37 – 00:11:42

That's a good stop. And you didn't have the kids and stuff with you, so it's like, yeah, whatever. Just pop in and

Aaron

00:11:42 – 00:11:57

it's easy. Yeah. Exactly. So I'm back feeling much better being home in my space, with a little bit of routine. Kids start school, I think, maybe next week, and life is gonna be totally different.

Ian

00:11:58 – 00:12:21

I know. This has been, like, the worst summer ever in terms of, like I had all these plans for things I was gonna do this summer. And just like the kids had so many activities, it was just constant running around Yep. Between 3 kids and only 2 adults, and we're both every day, like, dropping somebody off, picking somebody up, or it was brutal. And just so it's just so distracting, obviously, then when you're just taken out of your zone.

Ian

00:12:21 – 00:12:31

Like, one of the kids for every other every other day for, like, 3 weeks had a 2 hour camp that was, like, noon to 2 or something.

Aaron

00:12:31 – 00:12:32

Not enough. Crazy stuff.

Ian

00:12:32 – 00:12:34

2 hours is not enough. That's crazy.

Aaron

00:12:34 – 00:12:37

You barely make it home before you have to go back.

Ian

00:12:37 – 00:12:50

Exactly. So my whole summer just totally blew up on my, productivity that I was expecting. But alright. We'll get everybody back in school and get back to the normal grind, which will be nice.

Aaron

00:12:50 – 00:12:54

Yeah. Exactly. You wanna do some you wanna do some follow ups? We have a few.

Ian

00:12:55 – 00:13:27

Let's do some follow-up. Alright. Well, the first one is immediately after the last episode, Nuno wrote back that in Volt, you can actually put the blade template on the top of the file. So if you haven't seen Vault, it's a single page Livewire blade file combo, package. And so you can put the blade file on top and then the PHP Livewire logic on the bottom, which also then lets you get rid of, the p a the PHP tag then.

Ian

00:13:27 – 00:13:35

So because you don't need the ending PHP tag. You start the PHP tag after the blade template. I don't know. What do you think about this? I tried it out.

Ian

00:13:35 – 00:13:38

I wasn't sure. I don't know. I I think I like it. But I

Aaron

00:13:38 – 00:13:58

love I love it because that's the way that I might view single file components since I would always put the template tag at the top and the script tag at the bottom. And now people are coming into my coming into my space and telling me I gotta do script setup, and I gotta put script setup and do the composition API. And nah, man. I put the template at the top,

Ian

00:13:58 – 00:13:59

the script at the bottom.

Aaron

00:13:59 – 00:14:04

So this for for Volt, this feels this feels good to me.

Ian

00:14:04 – 00:14:15

Yeah. People seem very excited about that tweet. So if you don't know about that and you've been trying out Volt, give that a shot and see how you like it. What's the we have another one. Right?

Aaron

00:14:15 – 00:14:33

Yep. We got the we got another one. On the first episode, we talked about how Tobias' indexing book, his landing page was really, really beautiful. And turns out it's the same designer that has done all the new Filament stuff, and I think he's full time on the Filament team now. His name is Hassan Zaharina.

Aaron

00:14:34 – 00:14:48

Close. I definitely know it's Hassan. We'll put the link to his website, in the show notes. But he's done the sushi landing page, which is Caleb Porzio's array driver for Eloquent. He's done, Tobias' indexing book.

Aaron

00:14:48 – 00:14:59

He's done Filament. So he's done all kinds of great stuff, and I've seen him around the community a lot. I just didn't know that he did Tobias' book, so I wanted to follow-up with that and give him a shout out for that.

Ian

00:14:59 – 00:15:12

Yeah. His work's really interesting. I like it's kind of fresh and different. And I always like having the designers in the the in the mix. New designers in the mix, designers in the Laravel, sort of family and sphere is always good to have.

Ian

00:15:12 – 00:15:15

And, yeah, the Sussie page stands out a lot for sure.

Aaron

00:15:15 – 00:15:38

I feel like I feel like his design yeah. His design is a little bit, like, it's a little bit more fun and lively. It's a little bit bubbly, and it's really, really good. I I just love that everyone has a different like, this is very different than, like, the stuff that, the Tailwind Labs team puts out, and I like that. Like, they're both good, but I like that this is a little bit more fun and bubbly.

Ian

00:15:39 – 00:15:44

Yeah. Yeah. A little different. The colors colors too are definitely kinda not your standard. Mhmm.

Ian

00:15:45 – 00:15:49

You know, what's go what's hot lately if it's black and white or it's Yeah. You know

Aaron

00:15:50 – 00:15:52

bg blue to bg purple gradient.

Ian

00:15:52 – 00:15:54

Yeah. That kind of thing. Like

Aaron

00:15:55 – 00:15:55

Yeah. So a

Ian

00:15:55 – 00:15:57

little little different there.

Aaron

00:15:57 – 00:16:06

So, as a reminder, if you wanna get, shouted out to upwards of 15 to 20 people, send us send us mail. We have mailbags. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

00:16:06 – 00:16:15

Yeah. We we will we will read it out on the air. So I forget where to send it, so I'm gonna throw it over to Ian. Where do people send their mail?

Ian

00:16:16 – 00:16:17

Mostly technical pod@gmail.com.

Aaron

00:16:19 – 00:16:22

Oh, good. Elise? I put you on the spot. That was perfect. Yeah.

Ian

00:16:23 – 00:16:27

Pretty sure. True. I'm pretty sure. Also, it's show notes for sure. It'll be in

Aaron

00:16:27 – 00:16:28

the show notes for sure.

Ian

00:16:28 – 00:16:31

For sure. There just in case, but I'm pretty sure that's correct.

Aaron

00:16:31 – 00:16:36

Yeah. That sounds right. So thanks for those follows. Yeah. Alright.

Aaron

00:16:36 – 00:16:37

Where do you wanna go next?

Ian

00:16:39 – 00:16:44

Well, let's we'll go into Laravel stuff a little bit earlier. How about that? Let's say we get someone well built. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

00:16:44 – 00:16:47

Something different. We got this Lyft package.

Aaron

00:16:48 – 00:16:55

Yeah. So I I saw this. Tell me tell 1, tell me what it is, and then tell me your opinions on it.

Ian

00:16:56 – 00:17:15

Hold on. Let me just get see what we're doing. You get to watch us run the show here because I wanna have, it up in front of me. Why is this not working? This vacation podcasting is not, ideal.

Aaron

00:17:17 – 00:17:20

So we're talking Wendell Adriel's Laravel.

Ian

00:17:20 – 00:17:25

Looking for. See, you got the you got the name. I wonder his last name. I knew it's Wendell. I was thinking about it's Wendell, but not not

Aaron

00:17:25 – 00:17:27

You didn't know it was Wendell. I knew it was Wendell.

Ian

00:17:27 – 00:17:28

I knew it was Wendell.

Aaron

00:17:28 – 00:17:32

You're over there fumbling in the in the messy No. You don't know anything. Okay.

Ian

00:17:33 – 00:17:33

Do you have it?

Aaron

00:17:33 – 00:17:35

So the GitHub pulled up?

Ian

00:17:35 – 00:17:43

I've got it. So yeah. So Wendell's package, Wendell, just a great name, by the way. I don't know. I don't think I ever met Wendell in person, but I love that name.

Aaron

00:17:43 – 00:17:45

Congrats, Wendell. Great name.

Ian

00:17:45 – 00:17:49

Yeah. Yeah. He hit the, like, lottery of the Yeah. The naming. Appreciate it.

Ian

00:17:49 – 00:18:02

Did a good job there. Yeah. So Lyft is this kind of crazy package, that lets you define a whole bunch of stuff about eloquent models with attributes. And Mhmm. I just have a lot of thoughts here.

Ian

00:18:04 – 00:18:10

But a lot of thoughts. But first, before we even get into the package, what's your just general take on attributes?

Aaron

00:18:10 – 00:18:19

Yeah. See, this is this is where we were gonna end up. You know, Ian, I don't love him. I really don't.

Ian

00:18:19 – 00:18:22

That was my take initially as well.

Aaron

00:18:22 – 00:18:39

Initially. Wow. We have this is a setup for conflict that makes good videos. So so here's here's the thing. One, I'm not familiar with them, and so I'm super aware that, like, what is, what looks good to me is, like, 70% what I'm familiar with.

Aaron

00:18:39 – 00:18:54

And that's Right. I think that that's everybody. And so I'm looking at all of these attributes. Even back in the day for, like, a hot minute, there was, let's do all of our routing by putting little attributes over the controller methods. And I was like, no way.

Aaron

00:18:54 – 00:18:55

Yeah. No. No.

Ian

00:18:55 – 00:18:57

No. That that's a terrible idea.

Aaron

00:18:57 – 00:19:20

Yeah. So hated that. Attributes in general still seem foreign to me. And I think part of what I don't like about it is it feels like, man, it feels maybe it feels like you scatter one thing that used to be centralized into a bunch of different places. Like, the routing is a good example.

Aaron

00:19:20 – 00:19:41

I like to have a routes file. I don't wanna have, like, my route definitions littered all over the place. Mhmm. And I also, maybe this is a knowledge gap, I don't fully know how they work and what all can be influenced. And I don't think I would remember to check, like, oh, you gotta go check the annotation or the or the attribute or whatever.

Aaron

00:19:41 – 00:19:53

And so I don't know. And he's the the you can, like, pass arguments, and so then you're, like, I don't know. Okay. That that that that yeah. I'll stop there.

Aaron

00:19:53 – 00:19:55

Tell tell me tell me your journey with with attributes.

Ian

00:19:56 – 00:20:09

Well, I don't I haven't had, like, the full journey yet, I guess, but I definitely didn't like when people try to do it with the annotations and, like, it's like a comment that has all the stuff in it. Like, I hate the comments with the stuff in it. I don't want comments at all, and I don't wanna comment with stuff in it.

Aaron

00:20:10 – 00:20:11

The PHP doc blocks, that version?

Ian

00:20:11 – 00:20:24

Like, I don't like doc blocks in general, and I don't like I mean, at some point, there was something you you could do in there. Right? And, like, the IDE would, like, do certain stuff with it or whatever. It was, like, even, like, type, management, stuff like that, which obviously is a common use case. But I just hate that.

Ian

00:20:24 – 00:20:40

I don't like the syntax. It's oh, it's a big, like, eyesore in your way of reading the code. I definitely prefer this over those, but I agree. Like, when I first saw the attributes in general, I was like, I don't know. But here and there, there's been more use cases.

Ian

00:20:40 – 00:20:42

Like, LiveWire uses them pretty heavily in LiveWire 3.

Aaron

00:20:43 – 00:20:43

Mhmm.

Ian

00:20:43 – 00:21:20

A lot of spotty packages use them now in different ways and kinda I'm kinda seeing it. I mean, they're definitely the big limitation is that you can't, like, do anything dynamic in them, and that does sometimes cause some oddities, where like, with translation strings and things like that where, like, you need to be able to do something dynamically. So there are some like, even in this package Mhmm. Like, if you use it for a rule and you pass a string, like, you can't translate that string. So if you wanna override, like, the rules message, you have no way to translate it.

Ian

00:21:21 – 00:21:39

Got it. Semi edge case, but there's a fair amount of apps that are translated. So there is stuff like that. But I don't know. For for Eloquent, I do kind of feel like this is pretty interesting because it's like instead of looking 3 or 4 or 5 places in the file for different configurations, I can just see them all here.

Ian

00:21:39 – 00:21:55

And they're like so it's sort of like a, in that way, like a routes file. It's like, I can just go to this one place and see everything applied to the name instead of going to, like, the different methods that do the relationship and then do the type and, like, whatever. Do the rule. And you guys

Aaron

00:21:55 – 00:21:58

can give us a 2 second overview of what's happening in this package so people know.

Ian

00:21:59 – 00:22:21

Yeah. So in the package, a lot of the stuff you can define in Eloquent in already, through, like, methods or different ways like that. You can or, like, in properties like fillable, the fillable property and things like that. You can just do as attributes right next to the the public property. So you can just have that.

Ian

00:22:21 – 00:22:41

It's fillable. It's like a fillable attribute. And then there's a cast attribute if you wanna cast it. So these aren't you don't have to put this name, property in the fillable array and then again in the cast thing and then, if you have a relationship based on it it can that could be defined here. So you can have all these things in one spot.

Ian

00:22:41 – 00:22:57

You can have your validation rules there. So you don't have, like, the separate rules array and all that. So it's interesting. I don't so I I haven't even used it yet. I've just been sort of following along and every day he's kind of adding new attributes.

Ian

00:22:58 – 00:23:29

But I feel like there's something here. I wouldn't mind there's like a technique I like to call something being Otwelled. I wouldn't mind it maybe being Otwelled by the man himself because you know he always has a great vision on interfaces and APIs and things. And so, there's probably some stuff he might be able to do here, but I don't know. I feel like there is something here because that is always one of the things that in a big eloquent file, it does get a little bit annoying that it's like, okay.

Ian

00:23:29 – 00:23:45

I have this, you know, property. I need to, like, check-in 10 places, like, where all it's doing and and whatnot. And so I don't know. Having this one place to have everything defined about it is is kinda intriguing. But you're you're not you're not buying it yet.

Aaron

00:23:46 – 00:24:21

You're not in not sold. And the only reason the only reason I'm not sold is because of is truly because of my, distaste on the strong side and not being familiar on, like, on the kind side of of annotations or whatever they're called. So one thing I do like is that we're still exploring. Like, I love that Wendell did this because there can be, I think, sometimes, like, a sense that Laravel is almost complete, and we're lucky for that. But this is this is a good, like, hey.

Aaron

00:24:22 – 00:24:34

I've got an opinion and the opinion is, you know, I wanna use annotations. And I think I'm gonna try to pull it off. Love that. Absolutely love that. I'm not yet sold on the language feature Mhmm.

Aaron

00:24:34 – 00:24:51

Yet. And so that makes this package be something that I look at, and I'm like, I don't wanna do that. The same this is kind of the same way I feel about, super strong types. Like, if somebody were to tell me, oh, you could add this package. You could, you know, use PHP stand level 9 and get super strict typing.

Aaron

00:24:51 – 00:25:11

It's like, I don't really wanna do that. I'm not I'm not super interested in that. But I do like I do like anything in the eloquent space, and I do like that we're still we're still trying to push the ball forward. But, yeah, I can see, like, I can see people are really gonna like this, especially people that like annotation. Are they annotations or attributes?

Aaron

00:25:11 – 00:25:12

What are what are they actually called?

Ian

00:25:12 – 00:25:15

Am I calling them annotations? Maybe the yeah. I think they are.

Aaron

00:25:15 – 00:25:16

I was calling them

Ian

00:25:16 – 00:25:16

attributes, but

Aaron

00:25:16 – 00:25:17

I think they're annotations.

Ian

00:25:18 – 00:25:20

No. No. It's the other way around? Yeah. It's attributes.

Ian

00:25:21 – 00:25:24

I think we got ourselves mixed up there in the beginning, but it's actually just.

Aaron

00:25:25 – 00:25:26

Yeah. That's confusing.

Ian

00:25:26 – 00:25:28

Yeah. What's so new? We don't even know what to call these.

Aaron

00:25:28 – 00:25:29

We don't yeah. Exactly.

Ian

00:25:29 – 00:25:30

How am

Aaron

00:25:30 – 00:25:30

I supposed

Ian

00:25:30 – 00:25:34

to slice things? We don't even know what it is. Old, but, you know, we we don't know what to call it.

Aaron

00:25:34 – 00:25:35

Yeah. Exactly.

Ian

00:25:36 – 00:26:00

Yeah. The attributes. So the other thing that with this kind of package, always I'm a little cautious is because, like, it's really messing with something that's deep baked into the core and that a lot of things expect to work a certain way. And who knows if in some edge case somewhere, it doesn't work that certain way and you don't discover that for quite a while until you hit the weirdo edge case where it actually doesn't load up properly or whatever. So

Aaron

00:26:00 – 00:26:02

Yeah. That's one of the tough parts about this.

Ian

00:26:03 – 00:26:15

Yeah. I haven't looked into how it works, like, in internally, so I have no idea if that's if there's anything like that. But I do that is just an area where I do get a little cautious. Not one of these packages that's like its own thing and whatever.

Aaron

00:26:15 – 00:26:15

It's Right.

Ian

00:26:15 – 00:26:27

Yeah. It'll be clear if it's working or not because it just adds a feature. This is a little different where everything everything's going through this thing, and so, it's a little scarier. But yeah.

Aaron

00:26:27 – 00:26:45

Also, one of the tough spots for me is putting the rules in the model itself, because I think that's good a lot of the times, but then rules can be context dependent. And so I've always this this package aside, I've always had a hard time centralizing the rules into

Ian

00:26:45 – 00:26:47

I'm just gonna ask you about that.

Aaron

00:26:47 – 00:26:48

Yeah. It's like

Ian

00:26:48 – 00:26:49

Justin Jones.

Aaron

00:26:49 – 00:26:50

Well well, in

Ian

00:26:50 – 00:26:52

What do you do? What do you like to do with the rules?

Aaron

00:26:52 – 00:26:53

Man, I don't know.

Ian

00:26:53 – 00:26:55

This is, like, the eternal It's the worst.

Aaron

00:26:55 – 00:27:08

Yeah. Yes. So the the problem is and I've tried I've tried centralizing it before and basically, like, making my own kind of, like, rules factory, rules object thing.

Ian

00:27:08 – 00:27:08

Right.

Aaron

00:27:09 – 00:27:27

It just doesn't work. So here's here's the problem. Here's the problem as I see it. You've got, you've got HTTP coming in, and the rules could be different based on, permissions or the state that the model is in, all kinds of things. Right?

Aaron

00:27:27 – 00:27:43

And that's just h t p HTTP. Then you've got Right. You've got command line tools that you're, like, working with where you can, you know, as the super admin or whatever you go in and you're like, I need to process these 50 customers. I'm just gonna run this command line tool. And then you've got, like, background jobs.

Aaron

00:27:43 – 00:28:10

You've got all these places that can touch a model, and every situation is so different that the rules are necessarily different. And while it's good to say, like, the name is always required, like, that may be the only one that is always true, but I don't wanna put that somewhere and then these other rules somewhere else. And so I feel like I end up Yep. Recreating the rules just to have safety that I'm validating the right thing at the right time.

Ian

00:28:10 – 00:28:10

Mhmm.

Aaron

00:28:10 – 00:28:13

There's I I just I don't know I don't know the better way.

Ian

00:28:14 – 00:28:22

Yeah. I don't know. It's like I own with I own toy, like, I've been playing around with the DTOs and things like that. Uh-huh. Because, like, they let you validate.

Ian

00:28:22 – 00:28:37

But there is still these scenarios where, like, the data's different on create versus update, and then Totally. You have, like, something that's optional sometimes. And then Yep. Then sometimes that gets weird with the DTO. And, like so then you have these, like, classes for optional, like, in the spotty package.

Ian

00:28:37 – 00:28:52

And you have, like, you know, you have all this, like, type pinning that's going on and Yep. Multiple type ins and, like, that's just like, I don't know. It's I want I want it to be like that. I want it to be here is the central location. All the magic's here.

Ian

00:28:52 – 00:29:24

I don't have to worry about it. But then in practice, yeah, like, in I mean, it's a a a big thing too. I feel like that if you're not haven't built a real app or I just feel like when you have real apps that customers use, there's just all these things that you have to do that are not perfect, and you have to duplicate code sometimes or things like that because, ultimately, like, the app just has to work a certain way. And the nice way that the framework or the package or whatever would want you to do it just it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Ian

00:29:24 – 00:29:42

Work. And so it just ends up being more complicated, or you do all bunch of weird stuff to make it work. But now as all these edge cases are created or, like, just more complexity of figuring out what's even going on versus if you just had a rules array in 2 different spots that was basically the same except for, you know, 1 or 2 differences or whatnot.

Aaron

00:29:49 – 00:30:14

Given us the powerful validator and the rules and the form requests, and Laravel has given us all of that. And I feel like the reason we don't have validation built into the Eloquent model is for that exact reason. It's because it's it's too hard. Like, there there are too many different ways that you might wanna update a model in too many different scenarios that having a static rules array just isn't viable in a in a real application.

Ian

00:30:15 – 00:30:37

Yeah. This is another thing I've been thinking about lately is I don't know. I'll be interested to get your take on it. I feel like every time I stray away from the so this is kind of even somewhat counter to what we're just saying. But every time I stray away from the eloquent model as sort of the the core of logic, so to speak, I don't know how to describe this, but if, like, like, even with messing with the DTOs and things like that Mhmm.

Ian

00:30:37 – 00:30:47

It just gets, like, so much more complicated. Mhmm. And the benefits, I feel like I always see them in the abstract. Like, I'm reading about something. I'm like, oh, this would be amazing.

Ian

00:30:47 – 00:31:06

And then you try to implement it, and you're like, oh, yeah. But this thing and the other thing, and it doesn't work in this scenario And all those things. And I'm like, oh, I should've just, like, stuck with, like, calling the eloquent model, like, create in this controller, and everything would have been fine. But instead, I got fancy and now it's, like, taking me 3 extra days and Yeah. I don't even know what's going on.

Ian

00:31:06 – 00:31:07

Now, I wrapped a

Aaron

00:31:07 – 00:31:25

box of misdirection I I am a I am an eloquent slash active record maximalist. I Okay. Yeah. As much as I can do, give me give me a super fat model with methods for everything, and I'm I'm a happy happy man. So Yeah.

Aaron

00:31:25 – 00:31:42

I feel I feel the same way. I will say that, like, I try to stick to I try to stick to the conventions elsewhere. Like, form requests are are good examples. You can, you know, validate those, get all your correct data out, and then throw it into an eloquent model. Yeah.

Aaron

00:31:42 – 00:31:48

But, yeah, the whole I feel like I don't wanna open this can of worms, but, like, event sourcing is one of them where it's

Ian

00:31:48 – 00:31:50

like That seems like the next level. Yeah.

Aaron

00:31:50 – 00:32:06

Man, what am I doing? And maybe maybe we can have Daniel on at some point to argue with this, Daniel Coborn, and and he'll he'll tell me why it's good. But that's one of those things where I'm like, you know, man, I'm just gonna just gonna do my model thing. So, yeah, I feel the same way.

Ian

00:32:06 – 00:32:17

One thing I have sort of taken in and use a lot now is actions, like the action part. I do like that a lot. Yeah. Like, the vulnerable action package that works really good.

Aaron

00:32:17 – 00:32:24

If I used actions and I said that I haven't, but I wish I had in certain cases. So tell me what you're using them for.

Ian

00:32:24 – 00:32:45

Yeah. So I love the actions because it's pretty much just like calling, the active record, you know, create or whatever you're trying to do. It's just like one little step of abstraction from that. And then in a real world app, I find that it's quite useful because it's So the action is just like a PHP class for people who don't know. If you use the Laravel actions package, it does some nice, like, helpers and stuff for you.

Ian

00:32:45 – 00:32:59

So I would recommend that. I've used that quite a bit. I don't use that that thing goes a little crazy and starts to get a little a little too much for me. Like, you can just take this action and have it be your whole controller. You can take this action and have it be your whole job and things

Aaron

00:32:59 – 00:32:59

like that. So that

Ian

00:32:59 – 00:33:30

I actually don't use those parts because it starts to get, like, in the super magical territory. I just use it as an action. And so ways you just call this this class, like, where you would call, like, post create or whatever you might just have like a create post action and so you call that and you can just pass in your validated data or whatever and so what I like about that, though, is it gives you this nice central spot for if you have other business logic, which in, like, a real world app, you tend to. And so it's like, well, when I do this, I also have to, like, just do this other thing. Right?

Ian

00:33:30 – 00:33:52

And so instead of having to duplicate that in the multiple places of yes. I have it in this controller and I have another controller and I have a command line thing that does it, and it has a webhook, and it's a different controller, and whatever. So you can just have this the action that you call everywhere, you pass it the data. So that's centralized if you have other stuff to do. Maybe you have to fire a event or whatever.

Ian

00:33:52 – 00:34:03

You don't have to duplicate all that code everywhere. So it just gives you that one step back, but it's not complicated. Like, you can just go into that. It's very clear. Usually they're very short and super testable.

Ian

00:34:03 – 00:34:13

Like, it's like this is this one and it's function. I can just easily write tests for it. And the package also has nice helpers for that. You don't need to use a package. Like, you do, though, just build a PHP class and do this.

Ian

00:34:13 – 00:34:28

But, the package does have some niceties, like test helpers and things, which are really great. And, yeah. So I really like the actions. That is one that stuck in me because it's pretty much, like, active record y, really, but just with a little more abstraction so you can shove some other stuff in there.

Aaron

00:34:29 – 00:34:57

It's like a new first class citizen that you can then centralize some stuff in. And the thing that I've always like, I think, this Laravel actions package, which is very thorough and very good, I don't think that was around back when I was doing, this app that needs it. And the place that I think I need it is, like, when I do the same thing in multiple places. Like, just like we were talking about with the rules. Alright.

Aaron

00:34:57 – 00:35:25

I'm doing the same thing whether it's, like, an internal customer service person is creating a property as, you know, a a home, an address is creating a property. I'm bulk importing, you know, 500 properties. We're creating a property via webhook. We're creating a property via background job. All of those things are, like, creating a property record, and I ended up having to be like, I gotta make sure that I do the right thing for different places.

Aaron

00:35:25 – 00:35:29

And it's like, this would be good to centralized. So, yeah, I I do like the concept of actions.

Ian

00:35:30 – 00:35:36

Yeah. It's really nice for that. It's like that's the perfect use case. Just like, yep. I'm gonna create it, but then I'm gonna fire this event and I'm gonna send an email.

Ian

00:35:36 – 00:35:51

And I want those three things to happen every single time I create this record. And you just always know that those these things are happening. And you can test it and all that. So those I really like. It's just so nice and clean and organized and all that.

Ian

00:35:51 – 00:36:05

But yeah, but I agree. Besides that, the these other higher level things. And this is, this is I mean, I don't know. Maybe this is, like, both of us have this kind of background of coming from the less formal, side of computer science. So I do think there's something to that too.

Ian

00:36:05 – 00:36:31

Although I I definitely know a lot of people who learned on their own and are definitely more into these type of more advanced patterns and things. But I don't know. I tend to be very practical in nature in these things and just be like, okay, this is clean and easy to understand and somebody else could understand it. If I have to throw some random person in there, right, it's not gonna take them too long to learn a whole new pattern and all this stuff that has all these different rules and things. It's like nope.

Ian

00:36:31 – 00:36:36

Here's a PHP class, and it does a couple things. Yeah. I I get that part already. We're good.

Aaron

00:36:36 – 00:36:40

It's called creative productive. You you you can figure out what it does.

Ian

00:36:40 – 00:36:42

It's straightforward.

Aaron

00:36:43 – 00:36:47

Alright. Well, good package, Wendell. Look. I look forward to seeing how that will develop.

Ian

00:36:49 – 00:36:52

Alright. What's next on the list here?

Aaron

00:36:52 – 00:36:53

You wanna talk YouTube?

Ian

00:36:54 – 00:36:55

Yeah. Sure.

Aaron

00:36:55 – 00:36:57

PHP doesn't suck anymore?

Ian

00:36:59 – 00:37:04

It doesn't. We know that for sure. We're here to look. That's the short version of

Aaron

00:37:04 – 00:37:05

the video.

Ian

00:37:05 – 00:37:07

Thanks for tuning in.

Aaron

00:37:08 – 00:37:09

So I made a video.

Ian

00:37:09 – 00:37:09

Yeah. I made

Aaron

00:37:09 – 00:37:13

a video, and it, it covered, like

Ian

00:37:13 – 00:37:14

Wow. Yeah.

Aaron

00:37:14 – 00:37:15

Yeah. Right? I just

Ian

00:37:15 – 00:37:17

I just saw your views on it.

Aaron

00:37:17 – 00:37:29

You just opened it. Yeah. Yeah. It covered some of the changes from 2012 to now. And I picked 2012 because it's, like, a long time ago and, you know, 5.4 ish era.

Aaron

00:37:30 – 00:37:49

And I just ran through, like, hey, did you guys know that we have traits and we have types and we have types and we have enums and we have, you know, generators, that kind of stuff? It's funny because I thought it was good. Like, I thought it was a good video. Yeah. And I thought, some people some people will be interested.

Aaron

00:37:49 – 00:38:12

I think the title did a lot of work for me there, because I think I got people that were mad that I said that PHP doesn't suck anymore. And I think I got people that were mad that suggest that I suggested that PHP ever sucked. Right. And so, like, I got I got the people who were on my team and the people that were haters. I got them all to come and comment and everything.

Aaron

00:38:12 – 00:38:18

So Yep. I I think I got, got lucky with that with that title there. But yeah.

Ian

00:38:18 – 00:38:19

So it was a big key.

Aaron

00:38:20 – 00:38:21

Thousand views.

Ian

00:38:21 – 00:38:28

So congratulations. I made it on 5.7,000 up votes. Like, that's an incredible amount of up votes. Like

Aaron

00:38:29 – 00:38:30

It's crazy.

Ian

00:38:30 – 00:38:39

I feel like that percentage is unusual for, like, 5, 6% of the viewers to to vote at all. Yeah, it seems unusually high to me even.

Aaron

00:38:39 – 00:38:50

I can see Which is great. Percent. It's 98% thumbs up. So 57100 likes and 98% upvotes versus down.

Ian

00:38:50 – 00:38:56

That's amazing. Crazy. Incredible. Yeah. And I think the video was so good because it was just like yeah.

Ian

00:38:56 – 00:39:05

Just jumped into every single thing that's changed, all the big stuff. And it's like, boom. Here's 15 seconds on this. Here's 15 seconds on this. Mhmm.

Ian

00:39:05 – 00:39:07

Just kept the pace going really nice. Yeah.

Aaron

00:39:07 – 00:39:33

I'm really trying to find I'm trying to find, like, the ideal YouTube format because it is very different than like, a lot of this the work I've done historically has been long form educational. Right? So do a Laracast course or teach accounting or teach databases, and it's like, I know that I have you for a couple hours, and I'm gonna tell you everything you need to know. YouTube, you're fighting people clicking away or closing. Yeah.

Aaron

00:39:33 – 00:39:37

So I'm trying to find that format, but this one worked.

Ian

00:39:37 – 00:39:54

This also seems like one of these great ones that you could, like, break this up and throw it on Instagram and all the other, like, or YouTube shorts or whatever. Right? Like, there's, like, 15 seconds. Like, just create some new little intro that's, like, a 2 second intro, and it's like, boom. Here's, another thing about why PHP doesn't suck.

Ian

00:39:54 – 00:40:00

We use all this. Holy cow. It has 1100 comments. Oh, dude. That's insane.

Aaron

00:40:00 – 00:40:01

So many so many comments.

Ian

00:40:02 – 00:40:03

I don't know what you

Aaron

00:40:04 – 00:40:08

Fully half of them are like, PHP still sucks. I'm like, come on.

Ian

00:40:08 – 00:40:09

Well, it's YouTube. Care if I

Aaron

00:40:09 – 00:40:21

don't care if you think that, but be more like, I'm I'm not offended as a PHP developer. I'm offended as a as a terminally online commenter. Like, make a better comment. This comment is stupid. Sucks.

Aaron

00:40:21 – 00:40:22

Yeah. Exactly.

Ian

00:40:23 – 00:40:32

I think that is kind of a known issue with the YouTube comments, unfortunately. I think the the ratio of quality comments to Yeah. Crap is not ideal.

Aaron

00:40:33 – 00:40:36

I do I do let my spice come through a little bit more in YouTube comments.

Ian

00:40:36 – 00:40:37

Like Yeah.

Aaron

00:40:37 – 00:40:56

On I think it's fair. In, on Twitter, especially on Twitter main and mostly in Twitter replies, I'm, like, trying to be very gracious and kind to people on YouTube when they bring in the barbs. I just I barb them right back, and it's it's it's kind of fun. It's kinda fun to be spicy over there. Sort of

Ian

00:40:56 – 00:41:02

like a private area down there. You know? It's like a it's like, oh, it's you're down in the trenches in there. Right? Yeah.

Ian

00:41:02 – 00:41:15

Exactly. I also love that in this video about PHP and technology and code, like, the number one, oh, I guess you pinned it, but it's, like, funny that it's pinned that the loop a comment about the movie Looper is kinda popular. It's so funny.

Aaron

00:41:15 – 00:41:22

I did a little review of what was happening in 2012, and the movie Looper was in theaters. And I was like, this is a good movie.

Ian

00:41:23 – 00:41:24

And a lot of people a

Aaron

00:41:24 – 00:41:29

lot of people commented and said they can't trust me because I thought Looper was good. So I

Ian

00:41:29 – 00:41:44

am definitely on on the side of, like, PHP was never bad. Like, it's kinda funny because as you were going through there, I'm like, all this stuff is really cool. And for people who are you know, need these things, whatever is great. Plus, like, the old way, like, I'm, like, 95% of it. I was like, the old way, that was fine.

Ian

00:41:44 – 00:41:47

Like, I kinda like the way it was before too. Like, that worked for me.

Aaron

00:41:47 – 00:42:15

That that's my that's my secret is I never thought it sucked either, and I still don't use I still don't use a lot of the features that I talked about, like annotations or attributes and all this strict typing and stuff. It's like, I don't really care about that, and I love the PHP of yesteryear. This is and this is another thing. Like, this video is not for, like, my traditional audience on Twitter. Like, my my audience is Laravel developers.

Aaron

00:42:15 – 00:42:44

This is basically an outreach video, and I feel like the the audience on YouTube is so much bigger, and the algorithm does so much work on your behalf that it doesn't really matter who is directly following you. You're making you're making a video for kind of the masses. And so it it is a little it is a little different me because I'm thinking, like, you know, I'm talking to all of our friends. And, like, why would I make a video like this for all of our friends? But it's YouTube.

Aaron

00:42:44 – 00:42:48

It's not it's not for our friends. So, yeah, it's been interesting.

Ian

00:42:49 – 00:43:15

Yeah. I had a discussion with somebody kinda recently about this idea too, and I think that is, like, one of the keys of YouTube. Like, the point of being on there in some ways is to reach this new group of people who are not on traditional Laravel tech, you know, PHP channels of Twitter. You know, it's like, yeah, just everything that silo is only a certain size, and, obviously, Twitter decides its own issues on top of all that. So it's like the YouTube is so much bigger than Twitter.

Ian

00:43:15 – 00:43:42

Way, way, way bigger. And the algorithm is, I think, pretty good at surfacing stuff. I mean, sometimes we're bad, but, like, overall, like, I think it actually does a pretty good job of, like, surfacing things people are interested in. And so, yeah, this gives you that opportunity to reach out to other types of developers or, unbelievably, the PHP developers who are not, you know, on Twitter following Taylor and Laravel. Like, can you imagine there are people out there like that?

Aaron

00:43:42 – 00:43:42

I know.

Ian

00:43:43 – 00:43:45

I know. Yeah. That

Aaron

00:43:45 – 00:43:59

that is crazy to me that there's a whole set of the community, the PHP community that, like, is not on Twitter at all talking about, you know, Folio and Volt all day long. They're like, I have no idea what you're talking about, man. Yeah. It's crazy.

Ian

00:43:59 – 00:44:22

I see this a lot in, I mean, this isn't even a great example, but on Lara jobs, we see it a lot. It's like, oh, these companies posting that are not, like, in the Laravel circle. And that's very Laravel, obviously, specific. It's Lara Jobs. But that's, like, one of the areas I'm trying to do more of even with Lara Jobs is, like, reach out to other segments of the PHP world since it's really like a PHP job board, essentially.

Ian

00:44:22 – 00:44:44

And because there's just this huge world of PHP, it's like when I look at other job boards, even the more general ones, like a dice.com or whatever. And there's, like, all these companies posting, you know, Laravel jobs even. Yeah. Like, do nothing in the Laravel world, like Disney or whatever. Like, Disney hasn't sponsored Laracon or they've never posted a job on Lara jobs, but they have, like, 10 jobs on dice.com for Laravel developers.

Ian

00:44:45 – 00:45:03

Yeah. This is, like, a whole world of PHP and Laravel that's people just going to work every day and doing their job and leaving, and they're not, you know, that closely following what's going on necessarily, in the kind of more close knit community that we tend to

Aaron

00:45:03 – 00:45:05

be job and going home. They're not wired

Ian

00:45:05 – 00:45:09

in yet. It? It's crazy. They're not checking Twitter, Toycross Day for

Aaron

00:45:10 – 00:45:10

It sounds the

Ian

00:45:10 – 00:45:12

latest of the happy.

Aaron

00:45:12 – 00:45:12

It couldn't be

Ian

00:45:12 – 00:45:16

me. No way. No way. No way part of that.

Aaron

00:45:17 – 00:45:24

No way. The video also got, it got reacted to. Did you see this?

Ian

00:45:24 – 00:45:26

No. I saw this.

Aaron

00:45:26 – 00:45:36

There's a popular YouTuber slash Twitch streamer called the the Primogen, And he did a react video where he watches my video on stream and reacts

Ian

00:45:36 – 00:45:37

to it.

Aaron

00:45:37 – 00:45:43

And I'm like, I'm I'm so many levels deep into YouTube culture now that he's doing that.

Ian

00:45:43 – 00:45:43

Great. Yeah.

Aaron

00:45:44 – 00:45:49

And it so my video got a 100,000 views. His video got a 100,000 views.

Ian

00:45:49 – 00:45:54

Wow. So your video's kind of been seen 200,000 times before. That's what I'm saying.

Aaron

00:45:54 – 00:46:22

So it it it was really, really good. So Primogen has a very strong personality and a very strong brand that turns a lot of people off. But he is an absolute like, he's a wonderful, wonderful person. And he, we actually DM'd before he did the react video. Because I I feel like some people seeing that would be like, I can't believe this guy just watched your video and put himself in the corner and, you know, claim that as his own content.

Aaron

00:46:23 – 00:46:47

Like, one, that's not what he did. Like, he's one of the smartest people that I've seen on YouTube. And, 2, he asked me beforehand, and, honestly, like, he was doing me a favor because he's got, like, a 150,000 subscribers on YouTube. And then he's got a 100000 followers on Twitter, and he's tweeting about my video. And it just it was like a whole day of just feeling like, what is happening?

Aaron

00:46:47 – 00:46:57

Because, you know, I record these videos, and then it takes me forever to edit. And then I finally upload it, and I've already lost all the, like, oh, this is a great video. It's like, I gotta get this freaking thing off my plate.

Ian

00:46:57 – 00:46:58

Hey. I'm so excited.

Aaron

00:46:58 – 00:47:01

Does well. It's like, this is so cool.

Ian

00:47:01 – 00:47:02

So great.

Aaron

00:47:02 – 00:47:04

That was a fun week. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

00:47:04 – 00:47:18

That's, and, yeah, like, what he's doing there, he's, like, adding a lot of value. So he's not just, like, reposting your video. He's, you know, you know, adding to it for his audience and what they wanna see and, adding kind of value there. So

Aaron

00:47:19 – 00:47:36

and, yeah, obviously, he's looking at one of the things one of the things he's really good at is, like, he knows so many languages. He's an engineer at Netflix, and so he's worked Okay. A bunch of different places. He knows so many languages that he can look at all these things that I'm running through. And he's like, oh, this is kinda how c sharp does it.

Aaron

00:47:36 – 00:47:49

Oh, well, in JavaScript, it it's done this way, and I hate that. And I really like that PHP does this. And he can compare it across a whole bunch of languages where I I just can't do that. I've never worked in c sharp. I don't I don't know what c sharp is.

Ian

00:47:49 – 00:47:53

So is he so is he not he hasn't used PHP much then, it sounds like.

Aaron

00:47:53 – 00:47:55

So he No. Not since the era

Ian

00:47:55 – 00:47:56

that I talked about. Yeah.

Aaron

00:47:56 – 00:48:14

And so it was really cool because he, you know, he started the video, and he was like, I feel like he's talking exactly about me. You know, I came up on PHP, and then I've never I've never used it. And so there were some things that he genuinely, like, he genuinely liked. Mhmm. So I'm I'm really happy about how that went.

Ian

00:48:14 – 00:48:16

So what's the next video in this series?

Aaron

00:48:16 – 00:48:30

Yeah. So I've got a I've got a few that I'm thinking of. Mhmm. And I think there are you know, I get a lot of the ideas for, like, what's next from the comments on on these videos. Mhmm.

Aaron

00:48:30 – 00:49:02

And, you know, I have a bunch of my own ideas, but it is nice to see what are people continually continually surfacing. And so I think a few that I have in mind is, I wanna do for for the super type heavy people, I wanna do generics in PHP. One, I gotta learn how to even do that. But I do wanna show that, like, we have further typing than is available in the language itself. Basically and, you know, you always have to think of, like, what's the angle?

Aaron

00:49:03 – 00:49:26

And I think the angle here is, like, TypeScript for PHP almost, because it's, like, we're we're using PHP, but we're putting this layer on top and in the same way that you're using JavaScript and you're putting a layer on top. So I gotta figure out, like, the catchy angle there. Mhmm. And then I wanna do I wanna do a, Laravel is faster than Next JS video.

Ian

00:49:26 – 00:49:29

Oh, that'll be a good one. I know. Spicy. A good one. Yeah.

Ian

00:49:29 – 00:49:29

That's a spicy one.

Aaron

00:49:30 – 00:49:42

Figure out I'm having, Steve, just Steve King on Twitter. Mhmm. Steve McDougall, I think, is his his name, but his handle's just Steve King. He's gonna help me set up a Docker container. I don't know anything about Docker.

Aaron

00:49:42 – 00:50:06

He's gonna help me set up a Docker container that has the Next. Js app and a Laravel app with Octane. And I'm gonna load test and see, see if the Laravel one is faster. I super hope that it is because that would be that would be an amazing video that would make a lot of Next fans really mad and a lot of Laravel people really happy. And then last the last one I have on actually, 2 more.

Aaron

00:50:06 – 00:50:30

I've got, LiveWire SBA mode. So, like, I wanna show that you can create a single page app with just PHP. Obviously, it's LiveWire JavaScript, but, you know, the angle is SBA with PHP. Yep. And then I'm having Boris Lepkin help me set up a repo where I can do end to end strict typing with, Laravel Inertia and Vue.

Aaron

00:50:31 – 00:50:46

And I can have all of that, like, TypeScript all the way through. Because people are always like, well, I'd never switch to PHP because I love type end to end type safety. Like, 1, that's a red herring. That's dumb. That's a bad reason to stay with JavaScript on the back end.

Aaron

00:50:46 – 00:50:52

And 2, you can have that you can have that Clarabelle. So those are my videos. I gotta think that's catchy angles and spicy titles

Ian

00:50:52 – 00:51:05

and stuff. I really like the Livewire one too. Because I feel like Livewire's part of it is it's, like, a pretty complicated thing to explain, you know, because it's like this it's just not like anything else. You know? It's like it's not like React.

Ian

00:51:05 – 00:51:31

It's not like Vue. Like, it does what they do in the end, but it's nothing like them and how you use it. So, like, I do feel like it's just any kind of exposure or ways to, like, get people to understand how valuable it is and how faster it can make you Yeah. Once you really kinda understand what it's trying to do is, is would be really great. So can reach that other that other audience that's not in the super core that's like, oh, yeah.

Ian

00:51:31 – 00:51:47

We know already about livewire.laravel.com, and it's up there in version 3 and blah blah blah. Like and I think too, it's kinda become I feel like version 3 is, like, it's ready for prime time now. So it'd be great to see more people making videos and all that stuff about it too just because

Aaron

00:51:47 – 00:51:47

Yeah.

Ian

00:51:48 – 00:51:51

It's kind of matured to this level where it's really ready to take on,

Aaron

00:51:51 – 00:51:52

you know,

Ian

00:51:53 – 00:51:55

serious serious work, quote, unquote.

Aaron

00:51:55 – 00:52:20

Yeah. And I think with the version 3 release, they they did a lot of stuff that makes it makes it more usable. Like, this whole SPA mode thing is really cool. And Jason Beggs did a did a tutorial slash demo for Laravel News, showing, like, a podcast player. And I think the whole shtick is, like, it keeps playing even when you switch pages, which is like the the hallmark of a SPA thing, SPA demo.

Aaron

00:52:20 – 00:52:39

And so I may I may just use that, as my Yeah. As my example because yeah. I feel like even even in LiveWire land, like, you've got Hotwire, you've got Stimulus, you've got Phoenix Live View, you've got HTMLX. All of those are kinda like HTML over the wire dom diffing.

Ian

00:52:40 – 00:52:40

Right.

Aaron

00:52:40 – 00:52:57

But I think LiveWire is even, I would say, better, but definitely different than all of those. In that, one, PHP dies. Like, you have to build the whole universe on every request. And so, like, with Ruby, you've got this you've got this server that's continually running. And are you keeping state around back there?

Aaron

00:52:57 – 00:53:15

I I don't super know. But with Livewire, it's like, no. We gotta send we gotta send everything back and forth all the time. And one of the one of the complaints about LiveWire on the video that I did was like, oh, so how many connections do you have to keep open all the time to send the data back and forth? And you're like, none.

Aaron

00:53:15 – 00:53:26

You don't you don't leave stuff open with PHP. Everything dies, and you recreate the universe every time. Yeah. So I do think there's a fundamental, like, disparity between what people think is happening and what is actually happening.

Ian

00:53:26 – 00:53:43

Right. And just that that that's even, like, it's PHP's way of doing it has become more and more viable over time. Right? It's like, oh, that was kind of a stupid way to do it. Maybe you can make the case way back in the day because, like, the computers weren't that fast and the network wasn't that fast and, like, you send this stuff back and forth.

Ian

00:53:43 – 00:53:53

You're setting up the whole world every time and everything. But now it's, like, everything's so fast. It's like yeah. And it's great. I could just reset it up every time and, that does solve a lot of yeah.

Ian

00:53:53 – 00:54:05

It creates other problems, but it it does solve a nice set of problems too. And, yeah. Yeah. How LiveWire does all that I mean, the stuff LiveWire does to make this all work is sort of nuts. Yeah.

Ian

00:54:05 – 00:54:22

But it's so nice to rebuild everything. So now it's like really, you know, because when you first build something the first time, you don't really understand what it's even gonna be. And to rebuild it with that understanding, I think, has made a ton of really huge improvements in how it all

Aaron

00:54:22 – 00:54:38

works. And and on that on that PHP life cycle model, we got really lucky that PHP is basically tailor made for serverless environments. Because it's like, it runs one thing stateless and then it dies.

Ian

00:54:38 – 00:54:39

And so That's perfect.

Aaron

00:54:40 – 00:54:41

You're describing PHP.

Ian

00:54:44 – 00:54:49

Yep. Yep. It was a big change. I started in, ColdFusion. Uh-huh.

Ian

00:54:49 – 00:55:05

ColdFusion had a server, which so you could store state in there and other stuff. You could do all kinds of things. And then I started doing some PHP, and I was like, oh, like, this doesn't do anything at all for me. And then also it was, like, pre frameworks, essentially. There was a couple, like, very rudimentary frameworks.

Ian

00:55:05 – 00:55:16

And so I was like, there's nothing at all here. But okay. We'll do this. And, yeah. But now it's obviously with Laravel and just the whole state of everything that's going on with servers.

Ian

00:55:16 – 00:55:44

It's, it's so much nicer. And, yes, the hosting situation and serverless and all the options we have now just changes all that a lot. But and even Livewire, like, what he's done in version 3 where it's, like, bundling requests and things like that. So, like, even wire concerns that, you know, you weren't holding them open, but it was having to call back and forth a lot if you had a bunch of components and things. Like, now it's just all bundled together.

Ian

00:55:44 – 00:55:48

So that's all way more efficient. And, yeah, it's it's really pretty advanced now.

Aaron

00:55:49 – 00:55:51

Yeah. Good job, Caleb. Way to go.

Ian

00:55:51 – 00:55:53

Yeah. Love love Caleb. He's the man.

Aaron

00:55:53 – 00:56:01

Well, Well, we've been we've been mostly technical. Do you wanna go back to do you wanna go back to nontechnical for a second? Sure. Sure. We give we give the the technical people a break.

Aaron

00:56:02 – 00:56:05

Are you hiring someone to create family photo books?

Ian

00:56:06 – 00:56:08

Oh, family photo books. Yes. So this is my

Aaron

00:56:09 – 00:56:16

And so I saw this on Twitter, and I thought Ian is a galaxy brain. Like, I knew you I knew you were, like, a planet brain, but this is galaxy brain.

Ian

00:56:16 – 00:56:27

Yeah. Yeah. So this is the thing. I I used to be super into photography, and I've gotten I've I've dialed it back a little bit here, especially as the kids have gotten older, and they're just like, get that camera out of my face. You know?

Ian

00:56:27 – 00:56:38

But whatever. When they're little, yeah, it gets awesome. Like, so I'd be I'd always have the fancy camera. I'm taking pictures of the kids. And then, that I would taking pictures of just other sorts of things, nature and whatnot.

Ian

00:56:39 – 00:56:51

And then, so I'd always make these photo books. I can have I'd have all these photos. I'd spend the time. I'd get them all edited all nice and make books and blah blah blah. But then just recently, kids are bigger like we talked about at the beginning.

Ian

00:56:51 – 00:57:00

Like, it's just like they have so much stuff going on. They're running around all the time. Work's busy doing podcasts. Like, all this stuff. It's just not time to make a photo box and it's kinda funny.

Ian

00:57:00 – 00:57:12

So we did this the vacation I'm on right now with the people I'm on right now, we did this a year ago to a different different place. And I was like, alright. I'll make the photo book. And I did not I I still have not done the photo book. The photo book is not done from a year ago.

Aaron

00:57:12 – 00:57:16

We're on this vacation. You never volunteer for that that kind of stuff.

Ian

00:57:17 – 00:57:34

So now we're on the 2nd vacation. I still haven't done the photo book from the first vacation. And so I have, you know, I have, other trips and things that I would wanna do little books for. I just have this huge backlog of photo books. So, yeah, it just struck me one day, like, a week or two back there.

Ian

00:57:34 – 00:57:54

And I was like, I could outsource the creation of these photo books. Like, I'm not doing anything. Especially because these are not, like, at this point, more, like, artistic photos where I felt like back in the day, I was more like creating the art. Like, I might have a black and white photo of a certain scene, and, like, I want it to be a certain way. This is, like, me on my iPhone snapping pictures.

Aaron

00:57:54 – 00:57:54

Mhmm.

Ian

00:57:54 – 00:58:15

Like, just pick the smileiest one and edit it up to fit in the right box in the page and throw that stuff together and make me a photo book. So it seems like pretty much anybody could handle this, like, without and it'll be fine. Right? It'll be it'll be fine. It'll be a nice little photo book, to have on the shelf, and the kids always love the photo books.

Ian

00:58:15 – 00:58:40

Like, we always we have this big pile of photo books from all of our trips, and they go through them and whatever. So that's my plan. I don't know. I I so I since that tweet where I said that, I have not really had time to then delve too much further. I went into Upwork.

Ian

00:58:41 – 00:59:09

There are people who sort of claim to do it, but then it's a little bit not clear what they actually are providing. There's some who are doing it, like, only for weddings, which is not really the right thing because they're gonna wanna charge a ton of money and do, like, a fancy book, which is not what this is. So, if anybody out there knows of, either a service that does this or even just, like, photo editing services or things like that, like, because I obviously, it's, like, Upwork, but I didn't want the we're, like, a

Aaron

00:59:09 – 00:59:11

stay at home parent who knows how to use it.

Ian

00:59:11 – 00:59:12

I mean, that would be fine.

Aaron

00:59:13 – 00:59:14

Basically what you need.

Ian

00:59:14 – 00:59:18

If you're out there and just wanna do this for me, like, I'm also totally fine with that. Like, we can

Aaron

00:59:19 – 00:59:23

Is is your husband or wife a functioning adult and can use a computer?

Ian

00:59:23 – 00:59:32

He wants to do this. Yeah. I mean, that's totally I'm totally on board with that. Maybe this is the SaaS we should be building. Maybe that's what'll come out of this podcast.

Ian

00:59:32 – 00:59:36

We'll build the Yeah. Photo book creation service SaaS app. But, Yeah.

Aaron

00:59:36 – 00:59:38

We could make tens of dollars that way,

Ian

00:59:38 – 00:59:51

I think. Yeah. But it's like, if it was just, like, a a site, and I don't wanna build this. But if it was just, like, a service that does, that's, like, $100 a book. Like, they would just already have, like, 3 books for me.

Ian

00:59:51 – 00:59:58

Like, just Yep. Even a 150 book. Like, whatever. Like, I would just just pay the money. I don't wanna think about it.

Ian

00:59:58 – 01:00:19

I wanna upload my 1,000 pictures from my trip to Europe and my 200 pictures from the last, you know, vacation we all had. And I just wanna pay somebody a 100, $200 even and just be like, oh, and a book shows up on my doorstep and it's done. It's great. So, yeah, if anybody knows about that service already existing or wants to do it, let me know. And then, we'll see how that goes.

Ian

01:00:19 – 01:00:32

But, otherwise, I do plan after vacation on getting, on making that happen. And now since it's in the podcast, it's gonna have to happen. So at least we will try it. We will have results. We could

Aaron

01:00:32 – 01:00:41

Yeah. If if you're listening to this if you're listening to this and it's August of 2024, make sure you send us an email to see if Ian ever got his

Ian

01:00:41 – 01:00:42

his vacation book made.

Aaron

01:00:42 – 01:00:45

So check-in with us in 1 year to make sure Ian got his book made.

Ian

01:00:45 – 01:00:52

August 2025, we'll be doing this podcast. I'll be like, oh, I'm on I'm on vacation with everybody again. Now I'm 2 vacation books behind.

Aaron

01:00:53 – 01:01:17

Yeah. So I hired I hired somebody I hired somebody a while back to do 3 d rendering of I was gonna add a back deck, for to connect the shed quarters, my old my old studio to my house, and there's this giant gap in the middle. And I hired somebody on I think it was Upwork. No. I think it was Fiverr, actually.

Aaron

01:01:18 – 01:01:36

Mhmm. I took a bunch of pictures, did a few dimensions, and hired, like, a outdoor deck designer in Turkey to do 3 d renderings of what a deck could look like. Yeah. And it and it was, like, $65. Wow.

Aaron

01:01:36 – 01:01:52

And so then, like, was it perfect? No. But I could then go to, like, a local contractor. And instead of instead of, like, trying to explain something to someone who's barely listening to me, I could show him a picture and be like, I basically want

Ian

01:01:52 – 01:01:52

this.

Aaron

01:01:52 – 01:02:06

Yeah. And he's like, okay. I could build that. And I thought that is a total like, that's a totally good use of money to spend $65 to be able to communicate clearly what I want. And I went back and forth with

Ian

01:02:06 – 01:02:06

the guy

Aaron

01:02:06 – 01:02:17

in a few revisions. Because on the first one, he did some weird stuff with with, pergolas, and I was like, I don't want that. Like, remove that. Change this. And then I had I had the thing to show the guy.

Aaron

01:02:17 – 01:02:23

And so finding these things that you can outsource that you don't really think you can outsource. Yeah.

Ian

01:02:23 – 01:02:30

Yeah. I gotta get better about that. I'm really pretty bad about outsourcing stuff like that. And it's like, I should just outsource this. Why am I not outsourcing more stuff?

Ian

01:02:30 – 01:02:39

It's like, we actually found this service here kind of along those lines where it's like, they will come and set up. So you can't leave, like, a tent or anything on the beach

Aaron

01:02:40 – 01:02:41

Oh, yeah.

Ian

01:02:41 – 01:02:59

And there's, like, 13 of us and whatever and the kids and whatever, sun and all that stuff. So we kinda want a tent. So they just come every day, and they set up the tent, and they bring chairs, and they put it out there. And then every night, they come, and they take down the tent, and they take away the chairs. And they just do it every night, and it's fabulous.

Ian

01:02:59 – 01:03:07

And that also led me to the discovery of another app, which I'm just gonna tell everybody about as public service called Splitwise. Have you ever used Splitwise?

Aaron

01:03:08 – 01:03:11

Live live and die by Splitwise.

Ian

01:03:11 – 01:03:15

You love the Splitwise. I didn't even know about Splitwise. Love Unbelievable.

Aaron

01:03:16 – 01:03:21

Everything's fine. I've been using Splitwise since 2009. It's amazing.

Ian

01:03:21 – 01:03:38

Is it around that long? I didn't even know that. Wow. So maybe everybody knows about this already, but split wise lets you just split bills with other people. And, like, so you can just every time you buy something, you throw it in Splitwise, and it'll handle, like, if like, in our case, we're pretty much dividing everything by thirds.

Ian

01:03:38 – 01:03:50

Just divides it by thirds. And then at the end, it tracks who owes who what and can settle up, and that's it. And it's unbelievable. This is, like, one of the first mobile apps that's blown my mind in a while. We It's like, oh,

Aaron

01:03:50 – 01:04:23

this is this is about to talk splitwise. So splitwise is truly one of, like, the the OG apps that does the thing it's supposed to do and doesn't muck it up. And so what I what I love about Splitwise so we we do these yearly trips, all of our friend guy friends from college. And what I love about Splitwise is as long as you accurately represent the truth in splitwise, everything comes out just fine. So what I mean is you can say, like, okay.

Aaron

01:04:23 – 01:04:41

I, Aaron, I'm going to the grocery store for, you know, these 10 guys for the weekend, and I'm gonna spend, you know, $1,000 to buy all the groceries for this weekend. Right? I put $1,000 into splitwise, and I say, split evenly. And it just, like, it splits it evenly. Okay.

Aaron

01:04:42 – 01:04:50

That's yeah. Whatever. That seems normal. Right? But then let's say I get there early, and I go to dinner with 4 other guys, and we go out for pizza.

Aaron

01:04:50 – 01:05:05

Right? And 1 guy pays for all the pizza. And he says, okay, I, let's say Andrew, paid for all the pizza, but only these 5 people were there. So I'm gonna split it between these 5 people. And then let's say there are, you know, 3 people on the trip that don't drink.

Aaron

01:05:05 – 01:05:26

So we split the alcohol between 7 people. And then let's say I buy Ian lunch, so it's just like a 1 on 1 transaction. As long as you put all of that into Splitwise and you say there's a tab to say simplify debt. So, like, if I owe Ian $5 and Ian owes Andrew $5, I'm just gonna pay Andrew. And Splitwise will handle that for you.

Aaron

01:05:26 – 01:05:47

At the end, it just comes out to be like you put everything in there and it just says, Aaron, you owe Andrew $42. And you're like, alright. Sounds like sounds fine to me. And it takes into account everything you paid for, everything you participated in, and, like, it doesn't add you to things that you weren't a part of. And at the end, you you pay 1 single person, and then you move on about your day.

Aaron

01:05:47 – 01:05:49

It's the best thing in the world.

Ian

01:05:49 – 01:05:54

Totally mind blowing. Mind blowing. It's so good. Yes. It you said it perfectly.

Ian

01:05:54 – 01:06:05

Like, it doesn't muck it up. It's like it does this it's not trying to sell me a bunch of other stuff while I'm in there adding, you know, these entries. It's just like, nope. Add your entries at the top. It's got, like, this running total.

Ian

01:06:05 – 01:06:06

It's like

Aaron

01:06:06 – 01:06:06

Mhmm. You've

Ian

01:06:06 – 01:06:14

loaned out $1,000 so far. And it's like, yes. I'm making money on this vacation. She's not gonna pay me a $1,000 at the end of this vacation. It's so great.

Ian

01:06:14 – 01:06:17

Yep. Everything costs a third less.

Aaron

01:06:17 – 01:06:36

That's great because then you're at the next dinner, and you can be like, well, it looks like, it looks like I'm a $1,000 behind, so somebody else should pay for dinner. So then at the end of the trip, you you know, you're as close to even as possible, and so your person to person transactions are a lot smaller. Yeah. It's oh, man. What an unexpected surprise

Ian

01:06:37 – 01:06:37

to talk

Aaron

01:06:37 – 01:06:39

about split wise. Oh, it's

Ian

01:06:39 – 01:06:57

so good. Just just to have a unitask or app like that that just gets executed so perfectly, that's something I never built either. I always have these, like, big complicated things. I know. A nice unitasker app, it just does it's just down in the nitty gritty details of that single task so deeply.

Ian

01:06:58 – 01:06:58

Just excellent.

Aaron

01:06:59 – 01:07:03

Pulling up my Splitwise right now so I can see all the groups all the groups that I have.

Ian

01:07:03 – 01:07:05

Oh, wow. You have a bunch of different groups. That's interesting.

Aaron

01:07:05 – 01:07:08

Oh, yeah. I've got, I don't know if the camera is picking up.

Ian

01:07:08 – 01:07:09

Yeah. Oh, geez. Got

Aaron

01:07:09 – 01:07:22

it. Yeah. S f 15, Yeah. It's I love it.

Ian

01:07:22 – 01:07:29

It's a revolution. My mind has been totally blown. Like, yeah, none of us in our group really knew about it till my cousin went to a bachelor party

Aaron

01:07:29 – 01:07:30

Mhmm.

Ian

01:07:30 – 01:07:41

Like, 6 months ago or something. And, like, they just did it where the one guy paid for everything. Nobody paid for anything. The the leader paid for every single transaction. You know, he got all the points, which I think was probably part of his goal, which is great.

Ian

01:07:41 – 01:07:52

That guy. That freaking guy. And then, and then and then they just split it up, and they just all paid him the amounts they owed, and that was it. It was, like, so easy. So then we use it for this, and we're all blown away.

Aaron

01:07:52 – 01:07:55

It's it's so simple. Pictures of a receipt.

Ian

01:07:55 – 01:08:00

Yeah. And you can do because we don't care, but, like Yeah. You could do that for the bigger group or whatever.

Aaron

01:08:00 – 01:08:07

Yeah. And you can do crazy splitting things. Like, you can split it evenly. You can split it by percent. You can split it by portion.

Aaron

01:08:08 – 01:08:25

So you can be like, we bought we bought 15 things, and actually, 5 of the things were for this one guy, and the other 10 were for the other 10 people. And you can say this guy gets 5 units of proportion, and this everyone else gets 1 unit. It's like, why would you ever need that? I have no idea, but it's so

Ian

01:08:26 – 01:08:32

cool. I have used one so far. We've been doing pretty much everything evenly, but there has been one where it's like, oh, yeah. Me and my brother just did something. My cousin's family wasn't involved.

Ian

01:08:32 – 01:08:42

So it's like, oh, that is just me and him. And it's like, now it's split in half between the 2 of us and not, with him in it. And it's like the tally all changes and just blown away. Yeah. I don't know.

Ian

01:08:42 – 01:09:04

I feel like most of the hype around mobile apps in general, like, my mobile app usage is almost entirely, like, native Apple apps and like Twitter and maybe like 1 or 2 other things and that's it. And but this is one of those ones that's like, This is this is making it in this is staying on the phone, because it's just so damn useful in those couple times a year where you need to to do this kind of thing.

Aaron

01:09:04 – 01:09:05

God. What a gem.

Ian

01:09:05 – 01:09:06

So good. Yeah. Look at that.

Aaron

01:09:06 – 01:09:10

Getting gym there at the end of the pod. That's why you always stick around, folks.

Ian

01:09:11 – 01:09:16

Think about this. On this one trip, Waffle House and Splitwise. I've discovered these two things.

Aaron

01:09:17 – 01:09:20

Your life your life is and I discovered trucks. You can just you

Ian

01:09:20 – 01:09:20

can just

Aaron

01:09:20 – 01:09:21

put a

Ian

01:09:21 – 01:09:24

truck on a beach. Truck on a beach? We're learning.

Aaron

01:09:24 – 01:09:25

Yes. This is this

Ian

01:09:25 – 01:09:26

is why

Aaron

01:09:26 – 01:09:26

we do this.

Ian

01:09:28 – 01:09:29

Sharing our knowledge.

Aaron

01:09:29 – 01:09:32

That's right. Alright. Anything else? Where do people find us?

Ian

01:09:33 – 01:09:44

Oh, man. They find us at mostlytechnical.com and on, YouTube. Check out the YouTube. The YouTube gets it's, you know, it's like it's building up. I'm I'm sort of interested about the the YouTube growth eventually.

Ian

01:09:44 – 01:09:47

It's nice to be able to see how many subscribers you have because podcast. You know?

Aaron

01:09:47 – 01:09:48

Yeah.

Ian

01:09:48 – 01:09:57

Yeah. You can't really tell for sure. But, and then we're at, mostly technical pod on Twitter, I believe. So check that out. We should probably get these

Aaron

01:09:57 – 01:10:01

things done. If you can find us, find us. If not, we'll see you next time.

Ian

01:10:01 – 01:10:04

Go to the show notes. Thanks.

Aaron

01:10:05 – 01:10:08

Alright. Talk to you later, Ian. Bye.

Ian

01:10:10 – 01:10:11

Alright.

The Secret Is to Get a Truck

Transcript

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