We're HelloQuery now 👀

May 12, 2023

HelloQuery: https://helloquery.com
Aaron: https://twitter.com/aarondfrancis
Colleen: https://twitter.com/leenyburger
Learn more →

Transcript

Aaron
00:00:00 – 00:00:01
Okay. Hello, Colleen.
Colleen
00:00:01 – 00:00:02
Hey, Aaron.
Aaron
00:00:02 – 00:00:16
So we don't wanna bury the lead. Apparently, that's something we do. So I think I'm gonna title this episode something like, rebrand or maybe just we are HelloQuery now. So we changed everything. We're no longer hammerstone.
Aaron
00:00:16 – 00:00:24
I mean, I guess, legally, we are. But we're now hello query at hello query dot com. So congratulations to us.
Colleen
00:00:25 – 00:00:26
Yeah. Very exciting.
Aaron
00:00:26 – 00:00:36
It was, we went through a bunch of names. So I guess we should talk about we're we're pivoting the entire thing. We're we're changing everything. So where should we start?
Colleen
00:00:36 – 00:00:45
Maybe with the names? Because that was kind of a fun search, and we were kind of trying to figure out what we wanted to be while we were searching for domain names.
Aaron
00:00:45 – 00:00:50
Yeah. So do you remember some of your favorite ones that we ended up not choosing?
Colleen
00:00:50 – 00:00:55
So what I remember is what was fun about this is we were determined to get a dotcom.
Aaron
00:00:55 – 00:00:56
Yes.
Colleen
00:00:56 – 00:01:05
And my kids got involved, and they even made commercials for their favorite. Do you remember that? I think I sent you one.
Aaron
00:01:05 – 00:01:08
You did. Yeah. It was it was pretty good, honestly.
Colleen
00:01:08 – 00:01:14
Their favorite was Dynacodata because DynaCo is the gas station in the Cars movie.
Aaron
00:01:15 – 00:01:23
Yeah. There were, there were a lot of Cars references Cars movies references, and I had to be like, I don't understand what these are yet because my kids aren't that age. So
Colleen
00:01:24 – 00:01:25
They aren't old enough.
Aaron
00:01:25 – 00:01:26
Yeah.
Colleen
00:01:26 – 00:01:34
Yeah. So they were sad. We didn't go with DynaCo data. I gotta be honest. I'm trying to think I liked Insight Editor.
Colleen
00:01:34 – 00:01:34
That
Aaron
00:01:34 – 00:01:34
was one of
Colleen
00:01:34 – 00:01:35
my favorites.
Aaron
00:01:35 – 00:01:44
Of, Insight. So we're I think we had a lot of seed words of, like, data, SQL, insight, and insight editor was pretty good.
Colleen
00:01:44 – 00:01:49
Yeah. That was probably my runner-up. What about you? What was your second favorite?
Aaron
00:01:49 – 00:01:55
Yeah. I'm trying to think. There was one that we almost bought that wasn't Hello Query. What was that one?
Colleen
00:01:55 – 00:01:57
I what was that one?
Aaron
00:01:57 – 00:01:58
I don't know.
Colleen
00:01:58 – 00:02:02
What was it? We were so close, and our friend told us it was terrible.
Aaron
00:02:02 – 00:02:12
No. This is the one that our friend said you we took them Hello Query and the other one, and then we just bought Hello Query. And everybody was like, oh, yeah. You should've bought the other one.
Colleen
00:02:12 – 00:02:16
Oh, wait. Okay. Yeah. I remember that. Oh, man.
Colleen
00:02:16 – 00:02:17
Now I
Aaron
00:02:17 – 00:02:24
went back there. I'm looking for it in Slack. I think it's in a specific channel that I can find. Wait for it.
Colleen
00:02:24 – 00:02:27
I got it. I got it. It was Query Lab.
Aaron
00:02:27 – 00:02:30
Query Lab. It's a great name.
Colleen
00:02:30 – 00:02:33
It's a good name. I like that one as well.
Aaron
00:02:33 – 00:02:36
I do too. It's a good name. Hello, Query. It's a good name.
Colleen
00:02:36 – 00:02:43
Hello, Query. Hello query.com is our new name. Check us out there. Yeah. We had co SQL was the other one that no one liked.
Aaron
00:02:43 – 00:02:45
Co SQL. I like that one.
Colleen
00:02:45 – 00:02:47
SQL. I did too. Everyone liked that one.
Aaron
00:02:47 – 00:02:49
Work on SQL together. I liked that one.
Colleen
00:02:49 – 00:02:55
Yeah. Nobody else likes it. Super happy with Hello Query. I feel like it is a great fit for us. Yeah.
Aaron
00:02:55 – 00:03:04
I think it is. So we got the dotcom. It cost us a little bit of money, not too much, honestly. It's easy to pronounce. It's easy to spell.
Aaron
00:03:04 – 00:03:13
It is .com. So feel pretty good about all of that. Next question. What are we doing? Have we talked about what we're doing?
Colleen
00:03:14 – 00:03:17
We have not talked about what we are doing.
Aaron
00:03:17 – 00:03:18
Oh, yeah. I didn't think so.
Colleen
00:03:19 – 00:03:29
So let's yes. Let's talk about what we are making. So the new product, the way we're positioning it right now is safe and flexible access to your database. And Did
Aaron
00:03:29 – 00:03:30
you just read that off of hello query.com?
Colleen
00:03:31 – 00:03:31
I did.
Aaron
00:03:31 – 00:03:33
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lot of time. Good.
Aaron
00:03:33 – 00:03:41
I could tell. Yeah. A lot of time. It sounded good, but it sounded a little bit a little bit scripted. And I thought I I've I've read that somewhere before.
Colleen
00:03:41 – 00:03:43
Yeah. Because I read it. Yeah. It's good. And yeah.
Colleen
00:03:43 – 00:04:02
So the new product is basically a smart SQL editor. So a developer can come in. They can write SQL. They can set variables, and it enables the end user, so marketing sales, customer success, whoever wants to access the data, the ability to add custom filters on top of those custom queries.
Aaron
00:04:02 – 00:04:40
Yes. So if you've been following along for the past 1000 years as Colleen and I have been working on this business, to great success, this is, this is basically the same idea as refine in that it gives, nontechnical users flexible access to database data, I guess, is the easiest way to say it. But now instead of trying to convince people to buy a package, which they're not familiar with, to put it in their app, which takes work, and then do all of that stuff. We're just saying, hey. We'll do it for you.
Aaron
00:04:40 – 00:05:01
Connect your database. So this will be a tool that connects to your database, and then your developers can write the, like, the base queries, basically. And then the business users will say, alright. They wrote me this sales report. I wanna filter it down to just Texas or just in the past month or something like that.
Aaron
00:05:02 – 00:05:18
And then the business user can export it to CSV. They can run it on a schedule and have it delivered via email. They can get notifications when rows are, like, added or removed. So, like, when the report changes, they can get alerts. That is kind of what we're going for.
Aaron
00:05:18 – 00:05:32
So it's like a hosted version of refine, which will only mean something if you've been listening, you know, to us talk forever. I think the more generic version is flexible access to your company data.
Colleen
00:05:33 – 00:05:42
Yep. So same hypothesis. Right? Business users need to be able to create reports from company data. Same hypothesis, just different packaging.
Colleen
00:05:42 – 00:05:58
I think that's a really good way a good way to frame it for the listeners, for people who care. And, I think that we this also, of course, not going in building something completely new gives us the ability to take the 2 years we have had on learning and apply it to this pivot.
Aaron
00:05:59 – 00:06:07
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So that's what that's what we're switching over to. You have been spending a lot of time talking to people.
Aaron
00:06:07 – 00:06:33
I have been spending a lot of time trying to build this thing out. We've both gotten stuck in doom spirals at different times, which has been nice. And so I think one of the things that we have talked about a bunch is, like, how is this different than Metabase? I think is the pretty important question. So what have from your perspective, where have we landed that's different than Metabase?
Colleen
00:06:33 – 00:06:35
Easier to use.
Aaron
00:06:35 – 00:06:35
K.
Colleen
00:06:35 – 00:06:54
That I mean, that is the whole the whole value prop compared to a Metabase. It is so much easier to use. And by easier to use, I mean, maybe not maybe for the developer, the experience is similar. Mhmm. But for the end user, it's just going to look like a table with filters, like pill filters.
Aaron
00:06:55 – 00:06:55
Yeah.
Colleen
00:06:55 – 00:06:56
They'll be able to
Aaron
00:06:56 – 00:06:57
go ahead.
Colleen
00:06:57 – 00:07:13
I was gonna say they'll be able to save things. They'll be able to build on top and save things. They'll be able to do easy it's easy to find the schedule. I've heard I use Metabase for simple file upload, and I have heard that you can do scheduled reports from Metabase, but it is in no way obvious to me. There is no button Right.
Colleen
00:07:14 – 00:07:17
On my Metabase instance that says schedule this report and have it emailed to you.
Aaron
00:07:17 – 00:07:39
Yeah. I think that is I think you're correct. In from the developer side, I don't you know, one, we can't do, you know, nearly as much as Metabase does. From the developer side, it may be the same or worse. But I think what we our hypothesis is that from the business side, we can make it a whole lot easier.
Aaron
00:07:39 – 00:08:26
So we kinda have this split this split audience thing where it's like we are targeting developers because they're the ones that will, you know, write the initial queries, but we're also targeting the other side, which I think we're calling the business user maybe. And they will be the ones running these reports and adding their own filters on top and doing all of that. And from what we have seen, and maybe there's a reason for this, what we've seen is not many people are targeting that nontechnical user. Most, almost all maybe of these tools, end up targeting the data analyst and, data scientists and that sort of thing. And maybe we'll find out there's a reason for that, but I think there is a a gap in the market that we're trying to exploit, and we'll find out if it works.
Aaron
00:08:26 – 00:08:28
But I'm I feel positively about it.
Colleen
00:08:28 – 00:08:39
Yeah. I feel like the gap is between, as we've discussed, the person who wants their data in Excel so they can do what they want with it and then the company that is investing in high end business intelligence tools.
Aaron
00:08:39 – 00:08:40
Mhmm.
Colleen
00:08:40 – 00:08:57
Right? There there are companies there there are companies out there, many, I suspect, that don't want the cost expense or did you know Microsoft BI is like its own thing? Like, you have to, like, learn a whole language. People, like, take classes on how to build dashboards. That if that is not your primary job, like, you do not want to get into that.
Colleen
00:08:57 – 00:09:27
You just want your data and you wanna be able to present it at whatever you need to do. You wanted to make decisions. And so there's a there's a gap between, man, I gotta pull open a Rails production console and and write some sequel, and I gotta put it in Power BI. It's a huge gap. And and I think one of the things we have seen that gives us a lot of encouragement is there are competitors in this space, very at least 1 or 2 that are very similar, some that have raised significant funding.
Aaron
00:09:27 – 00:09:28
Some are very well capitalized.
Colleen
00:09:29 – 00:09:41
And so but the thing about the one company that has raised significant funding, they're clearly going up market. Like, they're clearly going full enterprise. So I just I think there's opportunity here. I mean, we're in now a market that is predefined. It exists.
Colleen
00:09:41 – 00:09:55
People understand it. And I think to your point, most of the tools we see are really targeting the developer, which is still probably gonna be our end. Like, this one's a little tricky because we've had this problem with refined too. Like, who do we target?
Aaron
00:09:55 – 00:09:56
Right.
Colleen
00:09:56 – 00:09:56
Yeah.
Aaron
00:09:57 – 00:10:03
Well, fortunately, we have our best person on it, and that's you. So let let let me know what you figure out.
Colleen
00:10:04 – 00:10:18
It's so funny because I spent all morning before we recorded, like, in LinkedIn trying to get these filters to reading Reddit, like, posting on Reddit to see, you know, I'm about to get on TikTok to look up at Excel people, like, to see if I
Aaron
00:10:18 – 00:10:19
can Oh my gosh.
Colleen
00:10:20 – 00:10:38
I've been all around who we're targeting. But I think what we talked a little bit about last week is my initial hypothesis was it's data analysts. Those are people. So I talked to 10, 15, 20 data analyst. And I don't think those are our people because they are doing big data.
Colleen
00:10:38 – 00:10:51
So they're the people I talk to, you know, they're in BigQuery and Redshift and Snowflake and Fivetran, and we are trying to target the company slash people who were less intense. I don't know how to describe
Aaron
00:10:51 – 00:10:59
that. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. If you're doing if you're doing 5tran, you're already you've self selected out of who we're targeting, I think.
Colleen
00:10:59 – 00:11:00
Right. That's why I think
Aaron
00:11:00 – 00:11:01
No. Go ahead.
Colleen
00:11:01 – 00:11:03
I was gonna say, initially, I think that is true.
Aaron
00:11:03 – 00:11:13
Okay. Yeah. So there was a time when we were calling this data clips for all. And I think that is interesting as, like, a, framing and positioning. So there is a in Heroku, there's a tool.
Aaron
00:11:13 – 00:11:20
It's, Heroku, there's a tool. It's it's first party. Right? It's it's Heroku. Yeah.
Aaron
00:11:20 – 00:11:26
So It's Heroku. I wouldn't call it a and then you don't pay extra for it. Right? You just pay extra for the extra database you run. Okay.
Aaron
00:11:26 – 00:11:47
So there is a tool. I know a ton about it apparently. There's a tool in Heroku called data clips, and it's basically just like a console or a studio where you can go and write, SQL and basically tinker with it and and export it. It only works in Heroku, and it doesn't have support for the other side. Like, you can go write the query.
Aaron
00:11:47 – 00:12:22
There's no pleasant way for a business person to interact with that query. And so one of our initial, like, positioning things was maybe we're just Heroku data clips for all, plus this other interface that is for the business user. And I think that's still valuable because people use data clips. Importantly, they don't pay for it. But we have also talked about putting HelloQuery in the Heroku marketplace to capture some of that some of those, people who we definitely know are running Postgres databases over there.
Colleen
00:12:22 – 00:12:34
Yeah. I think that is still a good kind of internal framing for us, like, in our heads. I have been so trying to put some copy together for the website, I've, again, been all around. Who are we targeting? Who are we targeting?
Colleen
00:12:34 – 00:12:50
I have no idea. It's not data scientists. I think what you said a couple minutes ago is we really the tool is really for the end user, but I did come around to the fact that you and I are developers. We understand the developer ecosystem. We're well connected in the developer community.
Colleen
00:12:50 – 00:13:14
So I really think what's gonna happen for this product is the pull comes from the developer. Mhmm. So, obviously, eventually, you know, you wanna get the pull coming from both. But I think for since we're trying to get traction quickly, we don't have, you know, 6 months to just spin around. I think you and I, it will be developers who know us or, you know, find us on Twitter or whatever, initially, who are like, oh, this is kinda cool.
Colleen
00:13:14 – 00:13:23
This could help solve, you know, x y z persons in accounting's problem. And they pull. But once that's what I'm hoping. What do they call it? They call it champion.
Colleen
00:13:23 – 00:13:34
So that's what I'm hoping, and I think that is the right way to target it for now, full circle. So your whole data clips for all framing makes a lot of sense, I think, for us right now.
Aaron
00:13:34 – 00:13:52
Yeah. I agree. I think our n, our natural n is gonna be with developers. What I am hoping is once we do start to get some of that traction, there's some sort of, clear delineated vertical of business users that we can then turn around and start targeting intentionally.
Colleen
00:13:53 – 00:14:04
Right. So I spent as I think I just said this. Sorry. All, you know, all morning on LinkedIn trying to do these filters. And so my next group of people so data scientists learned a lot of valuable stuff about what data scientists do.
Colleen
00:14:04 – 00:14:23
Probably not our people. So I was in there trying to filter on business analyst as an end user, which, you know, there's 5,000,000. So getting these filters is a whole thing. But, I was in there thinking about that, and it's not even business analysts. Like, we wanna target people who use and love Microsoft Excel.
Aaron
00:14:23 – 00:14:23
That is true.
Colleen
00:14:23 – 00:14:38
Which is why I was asking you the question about the TikTok influencer in Microsoft Excel. Because one of the problems too with, like, a Reddit, I have no way so people I got, like, 5 to 8 comments on my Reddit, question and but I've no
Aaron
00:14:38 – 00:14:41
idea what you're saying. I didn't know you did a Reddit question. What was your Reddit question?
Colleen
00:14:41 – 00:14:42
I did. You're
Aaron
00:14:42 – 00:14:44
all over the place. I love it so much.
Colleen
00:14:44 – 00:14:48
I'm all over the place. Okay. Reddit. It was
Aaron
00:14:49 – 00:15:05
Also, side note, I would love for you to be the miss excel of SQL. If you could be miss SQL, that would be amazing. We could scrap the whole business and just support you as an influencer. That would be I would love that. That would be amazing.
Colleen
00:15:05 – 00:15:27
Okay. So in our in our data science, I posted, what are your your go to resources to solving the CEO once x y z query from the database? I said, I'm running into the problem where the SQL writer, AKA me, has to constantly respond to requests from customer success management, etcetera, etcetera where they want some custom query. So I had I don't know. Maybe not 8.
Colleen
00:15:27 – 00:15:36
Maybe there's only, like, 4. But I had a couple people comment and say I have that same problem, but then there's no way like, and so I commented back, like, oh, what industry are you in? And of
Aaron
00:15:45 – 00:15:47
That that's a good good framing up.
Colleen
00:15:47 – 00:16:02
I just I think the thing that we are running into, and this is normal this early, this is a problem. Like, we keep hearing it is a problem. We keep seeing on the internet it's a problem Yes. But it's so hard to narrow down to like who really feels the problem. Right.
Colleen
00:16:02 – 00:16:11
Like, where is the real pain in the problem? Yeah. So, hence, the the new thing. So with this LinkedIn filter to get from 3,000,000 down to
Aaron
00:16:11 – 00:16:11
Right.
Colleen
00:16:11 – 00:16:14
600, I filtered on people who talk about Excel.
Aaron
00:16:15 – 00:16:15
Okay.
Colleen
00:16:15 – 00:16:19
Because, right, people who like Excel. Those are our people. Yep. So
Aaron
00:16:19 – 00:16:37
Yeah. I think so I think that is, that is a a very viable channel, and I'll be curious to hear who responds to that from all of your your outreach you do this week. I think the, the other side is, like, people whose data we can get access to.
Colleen
00:16:37 – 00:16:37
Right.
Aaron
00:16:37 – 00:16:53
Which is where the Heroku comes in. You and I have talked that PlanetScale has an API, and so we could do, like, you know, 1 or 2 click offing to to PlanetScale databases. I don't know if any of the others I haven't looked at, like, what are the others? Crunchy Data.
Colleen
00:16:53 – 00:16:55
Crunchy Data this morning.
Aaron
00:16:55 – 00:17:12
I don't know about Supabase. I I don't know hardly anything about Supabase, honestly. But people who have people who have their data in a place that we could access, that would be MySQL Postgres, SQLite, something like that. That would be another good another good angle, I think.
Colleen
00:17:12 – 00:17:26
Yeah. That might even be I mean, I think, actually, that is better. Because, let's say, I get all these people who like Excel, then I'm like, my next question is where's your data? Like, where does your data come from? I think we're gonna hear a lot of people have custom CRMs, like the insurance guy I told you about.
Colleen
00:17:26 – 00:17:49
Yeah. He a 100000000% has this problem. And they have solved it in this absurd way using, like, like, a a Salesforce tool and Tableau, but they have a custom insurance CRM. So, yeah, I think I think hooking into Postgres, Crunchy Data, PlanetScale, that would be, like, a phenomenal lead channel. I was looking this morning to see if they, Crunchy Data had, like, a forum.
Colleen
00:17:49 – 00:17:56
Uh-huh. But I didn't I didn't find one. But, yeah. Because you already know they have they have cloud databases. So Yeah.
Colleen
00:17:56 – 00:17:57
You know you can connect them.
Aaron
00:17:58 – 00:18:26
Man, I wanna say that Supabase, which is kind of a silly name, I wanna say that Supabase has, a almost like a GUI on top of the actual database, but I don't know that to be true. But, yeah, those might be the keepers the keepers of the data might be a good place to start, which is why we've talked about Heroku, especially because people have all that Salesforce money sloshing around in their Heroku accounts. So much to consider.
Colleen
00:18:26 – 00:18:33
Yeah. Yeah. I think finding a way in there, would be awesome. So, you have much to consider. Yes.
Colleen
00:18:33 – 00:18:50
So this week, since this will be my weekly who am I talking to this week? This week, it's so I think I filtered on business analysts, companies greater than 51 people. There's many other filters. I've mentioned Excel, have posted on LinkedIn in the last 30 days, and I I somehow got it down to, like, 600
Aaron
00:18:51 – 00:18:52
people. Oh, wow.
Colleen
00:18:52 – 00:19:05
Yeah. Well, I also filtered on connect like, second or second degree connections because those people are more even more likely to respond when they see that you have a connection in common. So that is my, shady LinkedIn scraping for this
Aaron
00:19:05 – 00:19:08
week. I mean, that's great. That's what LinkedIn is for.
Colleen
00:19:08 – 00:19:18
That's exactly what it's for. And that's what it'd be for. Yeah. So business analyst, you know, and I think next anyway, we'll figure out the next step next. But
Aaron
00:19:18 – 00:19:18
That's right.
Colleen
00:19:18 – 00:19:22
Hopefully, we get some we get some traction here with the business analyst.
Aaron
00:19:22 – 00:19:34
Yeah. I hope so. And I see you're still scheduling calls with developers. I think you have one tomorrow afternoon. So may maybe that'll hit too.
Colleen
00:19:34 – 00:19:41
Yeah. Yeah. And I still think, like, we need to lean into what exists for us, and what exists for us is to develop our relationships.
Aaron
00:19:41 – 00:19:42
Right.
Colleen
00:19:42 – 00:19:47
So I think we were a little discouraged after our first round of customer interviews with developers because
Aaron
00:19:47 – 00:19:48
A little bit?
Colleen
00:19:48 – 00:19:50
Okay. A lot bit. I I feel a lot
Aaron
00:19:51 – 00:19:52
Speak for thyself.
Colleen
00:19:53 – 00:19:56
We were a lot bit. We were a lot bit discouraged.
Aaron
00:19:57 – 00:19:57
Yeah.
Colleen
00:19:57 – 00:20:15
But all of those people worked at smaller companies. And so there could still be an in with the developer community. I really I really hope that is how we get our initial traction because this whole have a paying customer by the end of the month Hoo, boy. I'm, like, a little stressed out about it.
Aaron
00:20:15 – 00:20:19
Wait. We are headed full steam for the end of that month, aren't we?
Colleen
00:20:19 – 00:20:29
I was listening to, My First Million this morning. Uh-huh. And Sam yeah. Sam talked about how, like, the most important thing with startups is momentum. Mhmm.
Colleen
00:20:29 – 00:20:43
And he was like like, you've gotta just build momentum as quickly as possible and capitalize on it. So his thing was like he's like, so if you're trying to build a startup, say to yourself, what can I do in the next 24 hours to get a sale? So that was me this morning. I was like, what can I do in the next 24 hours?
Aaron
00:20:43 – 00:20:48
Great. So you've got, like, what, 18 hours left. I'm excited to see what you do.
Colleen
00:20:48 – 00:20:50
Oh, I mean, I'm desperate. I'm getting on TikTok. So
Aaron
00:20:50 – 00:20:59
Yeah. Clearly. This this feels like flailing behavior if you're getting on TikTok at this point. I do like that. On TikTok.
Aaron
00:20:59 – 00:20:59
They're I
Colleen
00:20:59 – 00:21:00
do too.
Aaron
00:21:00 – 00:21:08
They're I don't know how, like, I don't know how they do it, but they are the most lovable bros that I've ever heard. They're so likable.
Colleen
00:21:09 – 00:21:10
They are so likable.
Aaron
00:21:10 – 00:21:11
Bro y.
Colleen
00:21:11 – 00:21:19
But they're so bro y. I know. It is it is such an interesting contradiction, isn't it? This is so bizarre.
Aaron
00:21:19 – 00:21:19
I think they're
Colleen
00:21:19 – 00:21:22
broy, but they're clearly not assholes about it.
Aaron
00:21:22 – 00:21:23
I think maybe that's right. Yeah.
Colleen
00:21:24 – 00:21:42
I think that's it. I think, because there was something one of them said either in this episode or a different episode. Oh, he was talking about did you hear the one where they're talking about Sara Blakely and her husband? And he made a joke about how I forget Sara Blakely's husband. She's the founder of Spanx and Mhmm.
Colleen
00:21:42 – 00:21:43
Like, sold her company for, like, $1,000,000,000.
Aaron
00:21:43 – 00:21:55
Yeah. I think the youngest self made woman billionaire and then the husband, whom we both forget, is in his own right a multi 100 millionaire or something. And that was kind of the setup of the story.
Colleen
00:21:55 – 00:22:02
Yes. That was a setup. And so Sean says on this podcast, he's like, oh, yeah. What's his name? Whatever the guy's name is doing the dishes.
Aaron
00:22:02 – 00:22:03
I was like,
Colleen
00:22:03 – 00:22:14
this is not that's, like, super bad gender protect, bro. Yep. No. But, like, I don't know. And then the other guy made a joke and he was like, well, you know, he just manages the person who does the dishes because they have so much money.
Colleen
00:22:14 – 00:22:16
Yeah. And they're like, oh, it's kinda funny.
Aaron
00:22:16 – 00:22:22
Yeah. Because they were saying, like, she makes more she makes more money than him, so he probably does the dishes. And
Colleen
00:22:22 – 00:22:24
it's like Yes. Yeah. But then, you know, then
Aaron
00:22:24 – 00:22:39
they saved it by saying, like, well, you know, they're both 100 millionaires, so he just manages the person who does the dishes. You're like, oh, it's kind of funny bit. Like, way to go. It's a good joke. Anyway, yeah, you've got 18 hours left to to make a sale, so that's really exciting news for me.
Aaron
00:22:39 – 00:22:41
I'm super pumped to hear that, honestly.
Colleen
00:22:42 – 00:22:54
Okay. I'm not flailing, and I'm not actually on TikTok yet. But with my it's because I was, like, this is I should target the Excel people. It was because I was frustrated on Reddit I can't get people's contact info.
Aaron
00:22:54 – 00:22:55
Right.
Colleen
00:22:55 – 00:22:59
And so I was, like, maybe on I've never been on TikTok. Like, I don't have it. Yeah. Because
Aaron
00:22:59 – 00:22:59
It's not great.
Colleen
00:23:00 – 00:23:01
Etcetera. It's not great.
Aaron
00:23:01 – 00:23:02
It's not great.
Colleen
00:23:02 – 00:23:09
So I I thought I could find the Excel influencer and find all the people who commented on her comments and maybe those people use it and are not.
Aaron
00:23:10 – 00:23:11
Maybe, maybe, and maybe. You're
Colleen
00:23:11 – 00:23:15
like, no. No. No. Don't waste your time. Okay.
Colleen
00:23:15 – 00:23:16
Yeah. I hear you.
Aaron
00:23:16 – 00:23:16
Kind of. Yeah.
Colleen
00:23:16 – 00:23:17
Don't waste your time.
Aaron
00:23:17 – 00:23:23
Don't waste your time. Let's go for the people who have control of the data that we know we're trying to connect to.
Colleen
00:23:24 – 00:23:32
And, you know, it would be yeah. So that that's, I think, the next problem. Anyway, business analyst this week. We'll see how that goes. That should be super interesting.
Colleen
00:23:32 – 00:23:35
Hopefully, we learn something new. It's what we're doing. That's
Aaron
00:23:35 – 00:23:36
the goal. That is the goal.
Colleen
00:23:36 – 00:23:37
That's the goal.
Aaron
00:23:38 – 00:23:43
So did you listen to the podcast I was on with Justin Jackson?
Colleen
00:23:43 – 00:23:44
I did.
Aaron
00:23:44 – 00:24:08
I would be curious to hear from your perspective. So for context, I was on Build Your SaaS with Justin Jackson, just a few days ago. And I was on there because he's been talking on Twitter about how you shouldn't bootstrap a business when you have young kids. And I was like, uh-oh, hold up. I would love to take the other side of that argument.
Aaron
00:24:09 – 00:24:21
And I offered myself as tribute to come on to his show and take the other side of the argument. So that's the context. If you haven't listened to it yet, go listen to it. But, Colleen, what was your take on that conversation?
Colleen
00:24:21 – 00:24:43
I thought it was a great conversation. K. I am glad you went on the podcast. I thought that was excellent. I I appreciate how people who have made it are basically trying to tell us who have not yet made it that we need to be careful, that we need to be aware, you know, that this is gonna be really hard and your physical, mental, emotional health, relationships, etcetera, might explode if you're not careful.
Colleen
00:24:43 – 00:24:44
I think that's what they're trying to do.
Aaron
00:24:44 – 00:24:45
But it always comes
Colleen
00:24:45 – 00:24:46
out Yes. Yeah. Go ahead.
Aaron
00:24:46 – 00:24:49
No. You were about you were taking the words out of my mouth. Continue.
Colleen
00:24:49 – 00:24:51
It always comes out as this, you shouldn't do it.
Aaron
00:24:51 – 00:25:04
Yes. Exact so that is that is the thing. Like, I appreciate that too. I appreciate what they are trying to say. Like, the road they took was very hard and how was fraught with peril.
Aaron
00:25:04 – 00:25:20
Yes. I agree. But it does come out as, hey, I've I've made it. You shouldn't do this. Like, you should you should prioritize, you know, whatever it is, like margin or balance, or you should wait until your kids are older.
Aaron
00:25:20 – 00:25:45
And I was like, man, you could wait you could wait your whole life away for, like, a time when something that is hard is gonna be easy. I just don't think that I'm not convinced that that time is coming. Like, things are hard. And so that was what I was trying to like, that was the point of view I was trying to, to bring to the show. So you, you did some hard things.
Aaron
00:25:45 – 00:25:48
You have not always been you've not always been a software developer.
Colleen
00:25:49 – 00:26:10
Yeah. So I know it's worth it because I have lived it. Like, I have lived this already once, and, man and so I feel like so I I people probably don't know. So I was a stay at home mom for many years before I got into software. And I had, you know, 3 kids under 5, and, my husband was gone all the time.
Colleen
00:26:10 – 00:26:19
Like, it was crazy. I didn't have any family nearby. It was just you're just trying to stay alive. And I decided I wanted to get into software. And it was awful.
Colleen
00:26:19 – 00:26:36
I mean, I I was so I've never been so tired in my life. Right? Like, I was so tired. I was getting up at 5 AM and working and then working all day and then working every night. And I look back on that period of time, and I'm not like, it's not like a happy montage.
Colleen
00:26:36 – 00:26:42
It was like this freaking sucked. Yeah. Here is the thing, though. I'm on the other side of it now. Yeah.
Colleen
00:26:42 – 00:26:46
And it was 100,000,000 percent worth it.
Aaron
00:26:46 – 00:26:57
Yeah. So and importantly and I think I I tried to make this super clear on the show. There are things I'm not willing to sacrifice. Like Yes. There are things that I am readily willing to give up.
Aaron
00:26:57 – 00:27:15
And right now, that's like hobbies and oftentimes sleep and a lot of times resting, which I know can't last forever. Like, I'm aware of that. Right. But that's a trade off I'm making right now. There are things I'm unwilling to give up, and that is time with my kids.
Aaron
00:27:15 – 00:27:27
Like, I I'm just I'm not willing to work through dinner every night. That's not gonna happen. I'm gonna go inside. I'm gonna watch them half eat, half throw food on the floor, and then I'm gonna help with bedtime. And, like Yeah.
Aaron
00:27:27 – 00:27:36
Maybe that means I have to stay up later, or maybe that means Jennifer gets to watch TV at night, and I get to work. Like, you know what? That's okay. I'm willing to do that right now.
Colleen
00:27:36 – 00:27:37
Yeah.
Aaron
00:27:37 – 00:28:16
But there are just, like, just the the I think the thing that I was trying to get across is, like, the notion of you can have outsized outcomes without outsized efforts just doesn't seem true to me. And that is something that, like, I don't know if I'm frustrated that I see people saying, like, you can change your life, but you can do it in a really easy way. I'm I don't know if I'm frustrated because that hasn't been true for me, and I really want it to be true for me or because it's not true at all. And I'm like, no, guys, this is not real. I don't know which one of those it is, but it is frustrating.
Aaron
00:28:16 – 00:28:23
It is frustrating for me to see people be like, dude, don't work so hard. Everything's gonna be fine. I'm like, I'm trying to change my life here.
Colleen
00:28:23 – 00:28:24
It's not true at all.
Aaron
00:28:24 – 00:28:25
Okay. Good.
Colleen
00:28:25 – 00:28:34
It's just not true. And building a business I mean, when Matt Wenzing talks about this all the time, but it's like, it's really freaking hard. Yeah. It's really hard.
Aaron
00:28:34 – 00:28:50
Yeah. Yeah. I I saw Matt tweet just last night about, like, you get, you know, you get 20 points, and you can allocate them across family, business, hobbies, and social life. And you just have to decide which ones it is. And I responded and said, what's hobbies?
Aaron
00:28:50 – 00:29:02
Like, I don't have hobbies. I just don't have hobbies. I I don't I don't do anything besides work. And I'm not like, that's not prescriptive. I'm not prescribing that to anyone else.
Aaron
00:29:02 – 00:29:14
But I am saying that I am comfortable with that life decision at this point. That will change. I'm well aware of that. You and I have talked about timelines. We have timelines.
Aaron
00:29:14 – 00:29:30
And if we don't hit the timelines, we'll have to make we'll have to make new decisions. But for right now, back to my first million, I think Sam was talking about he has worry time and he has execute time. And it's like, okay. We've made the decision. Worry time is over.
Aaron
00:29:30 – 00:29:44
We can reevaluate in whatever his time timeline. I think it was 3 or 6 months. We can reevaluate. We can go back to worry time in the future, but right now, it's execute time. And, boy, is it hard, but that's the era that we're in right now.
Colleen
00:29:44 – 00:29:46
That's the era that we're in.
Aaron
00:29:46 – 00:30:30
And I think one of the, like, one of the things I've been thinking about recently is, like, the fact that what we do as developers on the side is what we do during the day. Like, for me, especially, because I'm still working full time, and how that makes things a little bit blurry. And I've tried to, like, put like, do a different scenario. So, like, let's say somebody is a, is an account executive at a SaaS company during the day, and then they go home and they're trying to write the next great American novel at night. And it's like, that's still working all day, working all night, trying to make, like, trying to change your life, make your dreams come true, that sort of thing.
Aaron
00:30:30 – 00:31:06
But nobody has a problem with that. Right? Nobody has a problem with the person that leaves their office job and goes home and, tries to is trying to record an album because they want they really want to be a musician or is trying to, you know, like, write a book or become a painter. It's just that ours is, like, you work all day on the computer, you come home, you work all night on the computer, and it's like, why are you working all the time, man? But it is this whole, like, I'm trying to build something outside of what I'm doing 9 to 5 that feels like we've always been okay with that.
Aaron
00:31:06 – 00:31:22
We've always been okay with the story of, hey. That's this person worked really hard to make their dreams come true, and it worked. I think maybe a lot of bootstrappers work really hard and it doesn't work. And so it's just littered with cautionary tales, but that's something I've been thinking about a lot recently.
Colleen
00:31:23 – 00:31:30
Yeah. That part about your wife just being like, oh, he's on his computer? Oh, you're still on your computer. But, like, not knowing that that made me laugh. I was like, yeah.
Colleen
00:31:30 – 00:31:31
It's a good characterization.
Aaron
00:31:32 – 00:31:38
Does Nick ever say that to you back, I guess, when you were doing consulting? It's like, what what exactly are you working on right now? Yeah.
Colleen
00:31:38 – 00:31:42
Yes. Yeah. We had to put boundaries around it. I think I told you this. Like, what nights do you work?
Colleen
00:31:42 – 00:31:46
Like, do you work on the weekends? That's worked really well for us.
Aaron
00:31:46 – 00:31:50
So did I invent individual pursuits, or did you invent that and I stole it from you?
Colleen
00:31:51 – 00:31:54
I don't know. I never you I never called it individual pursuits. I think you invented it.
Aaron
00:31:54 – 00:32:01
Okay. I think that was me and Jennifer. And then after I said it on, transistor. What's it called? Build your SaaS.
Aaron
00:32:01 – 00:32:08
I was like, wait. Did I steal that from Colleen and just take credit for that? It's like, man, I hope I didn't just do that. Okay. Good.
Aaron
00:32:08 – 00:32:12
Phew. Great. We'll continue to claim that as our own. That's a Francis Yeah.
Colleen
00:32:12 – 00:32:14
That's a good one. Yeah. Yes. This is a good one.
Aaron
00:32:14 – 00:32:26
Okay. Well, I'm glad you listened to it. I'm glad me and Sam Parr are the people that you're listening to, on your podcast. That makes I'm in good company there. Do we have anything else to talk about?
Colleen
00:32:26 – 00:32:30
I don't think so. I don't, well, did you look at what I did on the homepage?
Aaron
00:32:31 – 00:32:32
Oh, yeah. I did look at what you
Colleen
00:32:32 – 00:32:33
did on the homepage. That?
Aaron
00:32:34 – 00:32:35
Do you wanna talk about that?
Colleen
00:32:35 – 00:32:42
Not really. Okay. I don't know. Okay. So I just want your overall, like, like okay.
Colleen
00:32:42 – 00:33:01
So I I don't wanna get too sucked into trying to figure this out because, again, we don't really know who our customer is. So I think talking to people is still the best use of time. Yeah. But I put it in more of a narrative form versus what you and I had originally talked about. So just give me the high level, like, yes, this makes sense, or now I'm more confused than ever.
Colleen
00:33:01 – 00:33:02
Just give me a bullet list.
Aaron
00:33:03 – 00:33:18
Okay. First first bullet point is you did all of this work, and I didn't. So that's great. I love that. I just wanna say, like, I'm not gonna come in here and, you know, crap all over all the work that you did.
Aaron
00:33:18 – 00:33:35
I think these words are great. I think I think especially the, the top part that very clearly says, like, what exactly we do, which is something you and I have talked about. We've struggled in the past, like, clearly communicating what we do has been has been difficult for us.
Colleen
00:33:36 – 00:33:36
Yes.
Aaron
00:33:36 – 00:33:47
Okay. So the top part's great. I say that the words are great. Neither of us are designers, so this isn't like a like a tailwinds level. Like, I guess it is tailwind.
Aaron
00:33:47 – 00:34:00
I meant tailwind, the company. So words are great. Design, totally passable. Doesn't thrill me, but it's totally passable. The lower part, if the information you need faster and with less hassle.
Aaron
00:34:00 – 00:34:04
Great. Love it. Write the query once. Export it to CSV. Yep.
Aaron
00:34:04 – 00:34:07
Great. Love it. So then we get into the narrative part. Right?
Colleen
00:34:07 – 00:34:08
Right. Mhmm.
Aaron
00:34:09 – 00:34:15
Okay. The developer can select column, add additional filters. Yes. Love that. Dump.
Aaron
00:34:15 – 00:34:22
Top paying customers. Love that. Yeah. Okay. Because I'm I'm reading this on a radio show.
Aaron
00:34:22 – 00:34:23
So this is probably I
Colleen
00:34:23 – 00:34:25
guess we could have done this off the No.
Aaron
00:34:25 – 00:34:26
No. No. No. This is great. This is
Colleen
00:34:26 – 00:34:28
what You said this is what we do. Right?
Aaron
00:34:28 – 00:34:40
Yeah. This is what the people come for. I think it's great. I think the two columns don't make a lot of sense to me. I don't know if I'm supposed to read top to bottom on the left column or left right, left right, left right.
Aaron
00:34:40 – 00:34:51
Fair enough. So we could either I think we should make that one column if with a with, like, a straightforward narrative, like, a top down narrative. Yep. But, yeah. I like this.
Aaron
00:34:52 – 00:35:11
I think this is perfect for where we are because, 1, we don't have a product to show. Like, we don't have a lot of sexy screenshots to show off. So I think if we can agitate the pain, if we can agitate the pain a little bit and get people to to talk to us, that would be great. I think we should put the the wait list sign up again at the bottom after they finish reading the narrative.
Colleen
00:35:11 – 00:35:14
You can't with Mailchimp. You can't
Aaron
00:35:14 – 00:35:14
have to can't.
Colleen
00:35:15 – 00:35:19
Dude, I tried. Okay. I didn't try that hard because I just got really annoyed.
Aaron
00:35:20 – 00:35:31
That's sick. You Come on. Listen. We just had your rags to riches story about how you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and taught yourself how to code, and now you're gonna let Mailchimp stop you? Come on, Colleen.
Aaron
00:35:31 – 00:35:33
You can you can put a second form on there.
Colleen
00:35:34 – 00:35:40
Yeah. I guess I could. It didn't seem that important. But, yes, I could.
Aaron
00:35:40 – 00:35:41
It's not.
Colleen
00:35:41 – 00:35:57
Yeah. The Mailchimp form thing was hilarious. Like because I wanted to use the embedded form with that styling, and it was just it was way, way, way more complicated than it needed to be. Yeah. But, yeah, we can add we can add it to the the bottom as well.
Aaron
00:35:57 – 00:36:17
Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's great. Once we talk to more people and figure out, you know, who we're selling this to and more have more opinions on, you know, how the product works, we'll come back and adjust it. But, hey, we have a we have a landing page up, and I think it clearly states what we do above the fold. We'll let
Colleen
00:36:17 – 00:36:20
That's right. That's what we're trying to do. This is what
Aaron
00:36:20 – 00:36:24
Yeah. We'll let other people tell us if that's actually true or not, but I think it's true.
Colleen
00:36:24 – 00:36:38
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's true. And I think that, again, this isn't our landing page, I'm sure, will be completely different once we're further along, but this is we need people to talk to. So if you feel this pain in any way, shape, or form, please, please, please hit us up on Twitter.
Colleen
00:36:38 – 00:36:39
We would really like to talk to you.
Aaron
00:36:39 – 00:36:56
Yeah. If you're listening right now, you're welcome to join the wait list, but please reach out directly so that we can actually talk to you. So go to hello query.com and read it and see if this speaks to your soul. And if it does, DM Colleen.
Colleen
00:36:56 – 00:37:00
Please. I put our Twitters on the bottom of of the the page too.
Aaron
00:37:01 – 00:37:01
Leans burger.
Colleen
00:37:02 – 00:37:09
So that's so bad. So I got I gotta just own it. Just lean into it. I mean, to be fair, no one could spell Schnettler, so I don't want Colleen Schmittler.
Aaron
00:37:09 – 00:37:15
That would be terrible. Spell Schnettler. Neither can our attorneys. I I think they got it wrong half the time. Yeah.
Colleen
00:37:15 – 00:37:23
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was like so I think when you talked about Matt Wensing's tweet, I read that, and I also don't have any hobbies. Mhmm.
Colleen
00:37:23 – 00:37:31
And, like, I feel like I do wanna I live in California, and I did wanna learn to surf. And I'm like, I just don't have time to learn to surf. But after we make it, I'm gonna learn to surf
Aaron
00:37:31 – 00:37:31
That's great.
Colleen
00:37:31 – 00:37:33
Everyone. That's my plan.
Aaron
00:37:33 – 00:37:39
That's great. So once you hear that Colleen is surfing, then you'll know we're fabulously wealthy
Colleen
00:37:39 – 00:37:42
and we've made it. Yes.
Aaron
00:37:42 – 00:37:45
Alright. Anything else? Nope. Alright. We'll call it there.
Me

Thanks for reading! My name is Aaron and I write, make videos, and generally try really hard.

If you ever have any questions or want to chat, I'm always on Twitter.

You can find me on YouTube on my personal channel or the Try Hard Studios channel.

If you love podcasts, I got you covered. You can listen to me on Mostly Technical.