Developing your personal API | Aaron Francis

Aaron

When you're creating content on someone else's behalf, at least in my opinion, you have to be a good steward of their brand. My advice would be don't create content as if you're the expert because that's when you get into this mismatch of, like, actual experience versus portraying your experience. You read about a lot of these creatives and you you kinda start to realize that maybe all creative work is grunt work. If you have a crazy idea, just, like, try it, see what happens. What's the worst thing that could happen?

You could get invited onto a podcast and say it didn't work. And it's like, let me tell you, it's not that bad to say that. Like, nobody cares. So so I think you have a few options, and it depends on what you want out of your life. So you just have to decide what do you wanna do with your life before you can answer this question.

So it's very easy. I think the most interesting analogy for this is you are creating an API for yourself. You can go to the all knowing Oracle and get all kinds of answers. Sometimes you just wanna be told what to do so you can get back to work, and I think that is still valuable.

Simeon

Hello, Internet. Welcome back to the Code and Content podcast, the podcast for conversations at the intersection of code and content. I'm back in San Francisco visiting our office here and speaking to a few of our team members while I'm in town recording a few podcast episodes and you'll see those over the coming weeks. But for now, this episode I recorded with Aaron Francis was really great to do while I was here as well. So Aaron has been the main character of the Internet for the last twelve months or so on web development Twitter and he's seen both sides of the equation both creating content inside of an internal team and also now independently and I wanted to talk about the challenges and the opportunities that presents because a lack of constraints can be actually difficult to create creative work.

The grunt work behind creative work and also what it means to be extremely human in the age of AI and a really good point I thought was made about being your true self but perhaps not your whole self online. So I found this conversation really interesting and I can't recommend enough the screencasting.com course. There's a bunch of us did that at Sanity and it's just a very good way to learn how you should be doing that sort of content without having to think of any of that yourself or learn it yourself for the first time. So can't recommend that enough. Check that course out after you have finished listening to this episode.

One final note too, we have a huge release of our own coming up very soon. You do need to sign up to register your interest for that. Make sure you come along and check out our event. It's at the May. I'll include a link in the show notes, and you can go and check that out.

Aaron, welcome to the Code and Content podcast.

Aaron

Yeah. Thanks for having me, Simeon. I I, you gave me this sweater, and I'll pretend like I wore it just for your show, but I wear it every single day. So thanks for the sweater.

Simeon

That's excellent. So I'm hoping no other startups steal the sweater idea. And if, like, we can just own the sweater space, we will just keep shipping sweaters.

Aaron

Nobody can make them this comfy, so

Simeon

so I think you're okay. Wow. There you go. Maybe that's our pivot at some point. Like, if this whole content thing doesn't work out.

I'll run it up the chain and see how it goes.

Aaron

See, yeah, see how that goes. Make sure maybe you have a backup plan if you come with this big idea of pivoting into sweaters. They might pivot you out the door, so just be careful with that.

Simeon

Yeah. Yeah. They might not be the boil the oceans idea that we're looking for. But, luckily, the content thing's going pretty well. So, yeah, no need to pivot just yet.

So Good. Good. Yeah. So I wanted to get you on the podcast because, I mean, you create an awful lot of content, and, and and, yeah, you love this word content. And and I love I love content creation as well.

But, I guess you're uniquely positioned because you were doing a great job creating content inside of a start up, inside of a company there for quite some time, and we don't need to, like, reheat, what happened there about a year ago. But now you've been creating content outside, independently for about a year. Before I dive into specifics, do you have any sort of broad strokes, first thoughts on, the differences between the two? What you were doing a year ago and what you've been doing the last year?

Aaron

Yeah. I mean, when you're creating content on someone else's behalf, at least in my opinion, you have to be a good steward of their brand. And so you can't just go out and say whatever you want. You can't create content about whatever you want. You kinda have to I I took that, like, I think that is a duty because somebody has, like, handed me the microphone and said, go speak on behalf of our company, and it's like, wow.

That's a pretty big responsibility. And I took that pretty seriously. But then when you go out on your own, you're way more free to just kinda, like, create content about whatever you wanna create content about. Now my brand is not to be, like, real, you know, spicy and controversial, but I could do that if I wanted to. And there's so there's just a lot more freedom when you're out on your own.

Simeon

Yeah. I I know I felt the same when I started editing the first few episodes of this, and I interviewed one of our cofounders. And I'm sort of looking at the camera shot after the fact, and I'm like, this is actually quite an amazing responsibility that one of our cofounders gave me to, like, represent the company and and be the the company mascot, I tell myself quite regularly. So, yeah, it is a huge responsibility. Yeah.

Definitely. That freedom, though, that you've got now, does that is that, like, a a mixed blessing and a curse? Because, like, with no constraints, you can create literally anything now. And constraints, I think it could be a really good thing for creative work.

Aaron

Yeah. It it is. Like, when I was back at the old company, it was just make videos about MySQL, the database. And it was like, oh, alright. Well, I can I can do that?

And now now it's a lot of, well, make a video about anything. And with that freedom does come a lot of, you know, analysis paralysis of, like, well, what should I make a video about? I've drawn a few lines where it's like people will say, like, hey, what do you think of can you compare Astro to Svelte? And I'm like, no. Never used either of them.

I I I can't. And that's one thing that I've been pretty hard on is, like, I'm not gonna opine on things that I don't have experience on. And if I do, it'll be like, hey. I'm observing from the outside, you know, this will say React community. I'm observing React from the outside.

Here's what I'm observing about server components, for example. But I'll never say like server components are bad or good because it's like friends. I have not used those. And so that does create that creates a little bit of a constraint is I only talk about things that I either know or have used or am learning. That's totally fine.

Or I like I'm doing in my actual work. But still, it's a it's a pretty blank canvas. And I have, you know, that has sometimes held me back of, like, oh, man, I should, you know, create a video about this. And it's like, do you want to, though? And the answer usually comes back no.

And so I'm trying to, like, get better at being more like, what do you what are you interested in right now? Make a video on that, and don't worry about, like, what the cultural zeitgeist is at the

Simeon

Yeah. That seems like a cheap growth strategy is to just, like, involve yourself in every conversation right where it it does seem much more interesting because, like, I kinda wanna know what Aaron Francis thinks of those things, but, like, I'd I know that you probably don't care about them. So you you, you know, you wouldn't have fully bought into the difference between those two things anyway.

Aaron

Yeah. Whether I care about it or not is still an open question because I've just never even tried it. And so it's like I have kind of a null response about it. It's like, I know that they exist, but I don't I don't I view myself as an educator, like, at my core. And so for me to take, like, a surface level pass at two different things and then compare them feels really, really gross to me.

And so that's just where, you know, something that I don't do.

Simeon

So scratching your own itch is a good guiding principle. Right? Like, so if if you are actively using those things and you're and interested in it, how do you find that balance, though? Because I know, like, the difference between to use Internet pilots, yapping, and shipping. Because you do have a good informed opinion on something.

You need to have, I think, have built something reasonably good on it. But often, in the education space, I know I find this sometimes. I'm asked my opinions on some of those things, but I only have the time to sort of run through their quick start tutorial and then say, yeah. I I kinda like it in this five minute demo I had. Like Right.

So, yeah, like, trying to find the time to really test something out so that then you can give an opinion on it can be tough. Like, how much do you how much emphasis do you put on building something thoroughly to then understand it to be able to educate it?

Aaron

Yeah. A a lot. I mean, I think step one for creating content is be a developer for twenty years. I mean, that's not necessarily true, and that's, like, a a false barrier. But that is part of that is true that like, well, let me separate.

Like, there's good content that can be made as you're learning something. And I think that is very, very, very valuable. And so if you are just beginning, my advice would be don't create content as if you're the expert because that's when you get into this mismatch of like actual experience versus portraying your experience. And one, I think that's wrong. But, two, I think you're gonna get found out, and that's not right.

Right?

Simeon

Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. So, like, if you're just learning, you don't have to wait twenty years to create content that I I just I personally did. But if you're just learning, create content about the things that you're learning and couch them as like or like say that they are things that you're learning. That's fantastic. That's amazing.

People can learn like people just one or two steps behind you can learn better probably from you because you're not the expert who has forgotten all these weird little incantations that you have to do to make things work. Right?

Simeon

You don't have that built in curse of knowledge and the the context that you haven't actually written out in full.

Aaron

Yeah. So that's that's one side. It's like, how do you create content without having years of experience? You talk about what you're learning. That's fantastic.

Who could hate that? The other side is if you are an expert or want to create content as an expert, I do think you got you just got to spend a ton of time in the trenches actually doing the thing. And so for me, I am benefited greatly by the fact that I have basically used the same stack for twenty years. It's had different little flavors like but when I started, you know, I started with ASP.NET and then like six months after that, I switched to PHP. This is like when I'm 13, you know, and I've been using PHP ever since.

So I've been using PHP and predominantly MySQL for twenty years. I have done Postgres and SQLite. I have done different JavaScript front ends. I've kind of settled on Vue. Js.

And so now any content that I wanna create in that, like, sort of loose realm, I feel pretty confident in. And a lot of the stuff that I'm creating now is, like, it's not, hey. Here's the new way to do whatever in React 19. Because, again, that's not something I know. It's more like, hey.

I was writing code for, you know, my mini projects, and here's something I came across or a technique or a pattern or something I didn't know or something that I think other people don't know, and here is that technique or pattern or whatever. And so I'm trying to extract most of the content from my day to day work versus sitting down with a blank sheet of paper and saying create content, which is just, like, it's really stressful.

Simeon

Yeah. Which, like, that's the land grab on YouTube is, like, to have the first video on the new React features or something, and that that sounds like a race to the bottom, just for that speed.

Aaron

And a race to exhaustion. Can you imagine?

Simeon

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'd be able to be on a content, hamster wheel at that point.

Aaron

Like, something comes out, and you're like, sorry, babe. I gotta run to my computer and record a breaking news video. I'm like, that is I can't even live that way. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Simeon

That's a young man's game, that one. I'm I'm aged out of that. But, yeah, yes.

Aaron

Young man, zero kids game for sure.

Simeon

Yes. Yes. I'm I'm too old and too experienced to be chasing down new APIs. Sticking with one tech stack for twenty years also, unheard of. But, very, very smart.

Yeah. I get that. So, like, then sort of spinning back to days where you were churning out MySQL videos, like Yeah. How do you then how do you then, like, find the inspiration or the enthusiasm? Because I know, like, enthusiasm is, like, 90% of the job.

Right? Like and and so to then be very enthusiastic about the thing that is essentially paying your bills, like, that's I mean, I I genuinely think Saturday is an awesome product. So, like, that enthusiasm is for real, but at the, I I guess, like, if you are creating content on a schedule or because of a new release, then, you never wanna appear fake. So did you ever had to sort of suck yourself up or, I suppose, like, databases were what excited you anyway so that enthusiasm was always natural?

Aaron

That's all that's always natural. I mean, I like databases. I just really, really like them. The way that I ended up working at that company was I was independently for no money, no no client or anything. I was independently writing about databases because I thought they were interesting.

So I had that going for me already. In terms of, like, being excited, I think there's there's maybe two angles to that. Excuse me. One is being excited to sit down and record, and the other is, like, being excited on camera so that that excitement comes through to the people and being excited on camera. I have an advantage because I'm an American and we're excitable.

Right? We're loud. We're we do too much all the time. And so truly, like I, you know, I teach a course on how to make videos. And one of the things that I say is like, you need to be yourself.

Don't try to be somebody else, but you need to take yourself and turn it up ten, fifteen, 20 percent on camera because on camera, that comes through as, like, normal. And so you're gonna feel crazy being, like, in your, you know, your basement or whatever and, like, talking loud and kinda being a little bit funny or whatever it is to you, but amped up to the 20%, you're going to feel crazy. And then you're going to watch the video back and you're going to think, I'm kind of low energy or like, oh, that's that's how I normally am. And you're like, wait a second. What what happened between me and the camera that the energy went down?

And so that's that's one thing. But in terms of like being excited to sit down and record, that part's really hard. I mean, there are there are like, I think, creative techniques you can apply, which is basically, like, you know, you'll hear, who's the guy Brandon Sanderson talk about? He just sits down and he has he spends for him, it's, like, you know, four hours a day, and all he all he's allowed to do during that time is write. And then he doesn't have to do anything else the rest of the day that he doesn't want to do.

I think he's the guy that wrote Star Wars, Lucas, George Lucas. He had the same deal. He would sit down from nine to five, which is brutal, and his only job was to write five pages. And sometimes he would knock off around one or noon because he got it done, and sometimes he would go downstairs at five p. M.

With zero pages written. And it's like, gah, that is brutal. But that's kind of the game. And so back when I was doing it, you know, back when I was doing it as a W-two, a lot of the times I would just sit down and just like either with the MySQL documentation or one of these many MySQL books back here or like go to, you know, what is it? Algolia's Hacker News search and just search for old MySQL articles.

And I would just look for stuff. And if anything, just like sparked my fancy, you just grab on to that as fast as you can and you're like, okay, there's something like I can do that. That's really interesting to me. Let me let me turn on the camera. So, yeah, it's a lot it's a lot harder when, like, you have to do it to get, you know, to to keep your job.

But there are there are ways that you can kinda, like, inspire yourself.

Simeon

That's interesting because it it really is a creative work, what we're doing. Like, because we couldn't do the recording part without, like, some creativity and enthusiasm behind it, but it is also grunt work a lot of the time, like you said, like, just sitting down and writing the thing out and just making the thing happen. So, having to balance the, yeah, the grunt work and the creative work makes it interesting.

Aaron

Yeah. And you read about a lot of these creatives, and you you kinda start to realize that maybe all creative work is grunt work. Like, the the flash of inspiration comes when you're just, like like, lashing yourself to the mast so that you can be there when the inspiration comes. You know? So I always I always think that, like, you know, the great creatives and maybe someone like Taylor Swift is this way, but I always think the great creatives are just, like, breezing through from wonderful idea to wonderful idea.

And then you read about George Lucas, and he's like, I sat there for nine hours, and I could not write a single word, and I hated my life. And you're like, oh. Oh, cool. That's awesome. Same.

And that makes me feel a lot better.

Simeon

Actually, that's funny. I think about it, when I see your content. I've thought about it for years if I was, like, a Wes Boss. You know? Like, a Yeah.

You see their content online. Like, they just look like chill guys, like, like, hanging out, like, a cool hang. Like, that this is the the sort of the personality that comes across through the camera. But I know behind the scenes, like, literally, you called your company TryHard Studios. Like, there's a lot of Yep.

Hard work that goes in behind the scenes to make it look that chill or that that that relaxed.

Aaron

Yep. Exactly.

Simeon

Just through preparation. So and I think sort of touching back on something you're talking about before, like, I know I'll typically write a blog post or something just because, like, I I learned of this thing, and I'm excited about it in this moment right now. And it's it's a it's you know, I had I needed to know what this documentation example didn't cover, so here's the thing I found out while trying to fix that missing piece. And, yeah, less less premeditated. I need to create this piece of content and more, I learned this thing in this moment, and I'm excited about it, and, I wanna share it.

Which that's a theme for a few episodes here as well as I think this job also requires a certain amount of oversharing. Would you describe yourself as an oversharer?

Aaron

I would describe myself as a trained oversharer. Yes. I think I think, by nature, I'm very introverted and like to be alone, be with a very small group of friends. But by nature, I am different. Like, I'm that way just naturally.

But I've trained myself to become very good at, noticing things that, like, anything where I'm working or reading or doing something, and in the back of my head, I go, that's interesting. Like, that I have trained myself for that is the cue that drives the behavior of sharing something. So Yeah. At that point, like, my job is done. I said, that's interesting.

I wrote it down or I made a video. I put it out, and my responsibility to that idea or that content is fulfilled. Whether it's like a slam dunk or a bust, that's not really my problem, because now I have done the work, and I can, you know, get back to doing what I was doing.

Simeon

Yeah. I think something that's been interesting to see you do lately as well is kill some ideas, which that can't be easy either. No. When you think it's a great idea, like and you're so close to the metal of that, this thing's gonna be a slender success. I know you talked about it on other podcasts, like like on your podcast as well, that fusion in particular, but I suppose is that that's part of the freedom that you now have, that you can build whatever you like, but then if it doesn't work out, it takes a lot of courage to walk away, though.

Like, I don't know if there's anything wrong with that.

Aaron

Yeah. For sure. So no. I had a library You

Simeon

should be embarrassed for trying.

Aaron

I shouldn't, but yet I am, which is interesting.

Simeon

I would be to say I

Aaron

had a library called Fusion and spent, like, you know, three, four, five months just kinda working pretty hard on it and then gave a big talk at Laracon EU, in Amsterdam about the library. And I thought this is either people are either going to love this or they're going to hate it, but I think it's technically extremely interesting. And that part was true. It is technically extremely interesting. And I had a lot of fun doing it, and a lot of pain because it was like, boy, this is really hard.

And I released it and nobody cared. I mean, a lot of people hated it, which, you know, that's Reddit. So that doesn't bother me and doesn't go into the calculus. But beyond that, nobody liked it. Nobody was like, Oh, please.

Like, where's the next release? Like, Hey, man, are you still like, what's what's going on here? Didn't hear a word about it. And so, yeah, after after, you know, maybe, like, two months of it being released and me kinda dabbling with it and no not a single soul saying, like, hey, man. Are you, like, what's going on here?

I'm I'm using it. I'm having it. And it's like, alright. Nobody cares. Nobody cares.

And the road before me on that project was quite long. It was like, you're gonna spend a few years working on this and evangelizing it and trying to convince people to use it. Is that what you wanna do when it the the start has been so lukewarm? And, you know, once you take the ego out of it, the answer was easy. No, I don't want to do that at all.

But the ego made me hold on because I was like, Oh, dude, you just gave this big conference talk and then you went on a podcast and then you made a little video and like, you're just gonna say, oh, man. Didn't work. And that's exactly what I did. I said, oh, man. Didn't work, and it's over.

And I feel great about it. But the whole, like, hey. Sorry. The guy made a big deal about this, and it didn't work. That part is embarrassing, but turns out nobody cares at all except me.

But still, it's like, it doesn't feel awesome.

Simeon

So nobody cares you've released it, and nobody cares that you gave it up? Like, it's No.

Aaron

Turns out

Simeon

a win win. Right?

Aaron

People care about themselves and which is a lesson I continually learn. I'm always like, what are people gonna think about me? And everybody else is thinking, what are people gonna think about me? And nobody's thinking about anyone else. So

Simeon

Yeah. So true of them. No one no one's thinking about you. Yeah. There's No.

I think it is it the spotlight theory? Is that what it like, people people believe the spotlights on them? But in I I think last time I googled this, it that I was because I thought this phenomenon must have a name, and I think it's the spotlight theory that everyone believes the spotlights on them. Yeah. Or I might have just made that up.

But, no, that that's cool because then it frees you up to chase the next thing. Right? That might be the smash hit success. And when we talk here about, like, win or learn, like, there's no real values. Like, you would must have learned things in the process of of that.

And Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. I learned I learned a ton, and it wasn't all for not. I mean, I got, I had stuff to talk about all the way through, and it was all very interesting. And then, you know, I learned a lot in, like, actually, you know, packaging the whole thing up and making it one cohesive experience. And then turns out that, like, the actual thing I was going for didn't work, but the whole journey was still valuable.

And so I would say, like, if you have a crazy idea, just like try it, see what happens. What's the worst thing that could happen? You could get invited on to a podcast and say it didn't work. And it's like, let me tell you, it's not that bad to say that. Like, nobody cares.

So, yeah, I it was totally worth it, and also it was a complete failure. So, not so bad.

Simeon

That might be the biggest story. Maybe you'll, have inspired other people to walk away from projects they no longer are just sitting in and that that could be That would be

Aaron

great. Community. Too many yes. You see too many, you know, predominantly indie hackers pursuing these ideas for years without, like, getting any traction. And I looked at that, and I was like, I don't wanna do that.

Like, I've done that before, actually, and I don't wanna do it again. So yeah. Hey, y'all. If you wanna quit something, just quit it. Hit the bricks.

Get out of here. It's great.

Simeon

I think, yeah, I see about, like, try hard studios, but, like, you don't wanna get labeled as just quit studios or something. Just

Aaron

quit studios.

Simeon

No. That's that's cool. So what do we think about, distribution is something else I'd like to talk to you about as well? Like, I know you're very active on X, the everything app, formerly known as Twitter. I think that's the full name of the platform now.

How much do you think about, like, tailoring your content for those audience as well? Because I know, like, you post videos on YouTube, and YouTube's something that I'm becoming increasingly obsessed with. But, like, creating content for YouTube is a whole thing in itself. Yeah. So, like, how much do you think about the content I'm creating then it needs to be formatted in a particular way or speak it in a particular way, framed in a particular way for where I'm posting that as well?

Aaron

Yeah. I think, so I think you have a few options, and it depends on what you want out of your life. So you just have to decide what do you wanna do with your life before you get can answer this question. So it's very easy. So here's here's what I mean.

I think, if you if you want to win, then I think you need to play by the rules of the platform, whether implicit or explicit. So that's if you want to win. If you want to do whatever you want to do, you should just do whatever you want to do. And so it comes down. I think sometimes people will be like, I'm not gonna change who I am for the platform.

And I'm like, that's great. Do whatever you wanna do. Don't expect to put out, long form thoughtful content on TikTok and have it do well. Like Yeah. But if you don't wanna change what you're doing, that's fine, but you then you can't then be mad that your content is not succeeding.

We see this a lot on x.com, the everything app where people are like, my my engagement or my reach has tanked. And you look at all their content, and it's just kinda like RSS auto posting. And you're like, yeah. Like, what do you expect?

Simeon

It's

Aaron

terrible. Yeah. It's terrible content. And then they say, well, it used to be. And I'm like, okay.

Like, I I what do you want out of life? Do you wanna win? Well, you gotta play the game. Do you wanna do what you wanna do? Well, you can't be mad if you lose.

Like, those are the rules. And so for me, I wanna win. But I also don't post on TikTok because I don't like I don't wanna play by those rules. I don't wanna do what they're doing over there. I don't think there's anything morally wrong with most content on TikTok.

I just don't wanna do short form, high energy, high cuts. Like, I just don't wanna do that. I don't have the energy for it. I don't think I have the taste for it. And so I don't do

Simeon

That's the big one. Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. And so, like, I feel very comfortable on x. I feel like I get that platform. I can be myself and play by the rules, the implicit rules of that platform without betraying who I am. And so I spent a lot of time over there.

I feel the same way about YouTube because YouTube is even more kind of like fast and loose because it's like, yeah, there's an audience for everything on YouTube, even more so than X. And so on YouTube, it's like, what do I want to do? And here's an interesting nuance about, like, the rules of the platform. It might have changed in the past, like, six months or so, but for the longest time, the implicit rule of YouTube was you have to have a clickbait thumbnail. Like, they would never say that, but that was the rule.

Like, you have to have clickbait. Like, you have to be really shocked in your you have to put a shocked face on your thumbnail.

Simeon

Arrow pointing at something.

Aaron

Red arrow, and the title's like, I can't believe React just did this. And, like, that was the rule. And I decided, like, I'm not I don't like that. That that is abhorrent to me, and I'm not going to do that. And so where I draw the line on YouTube is like, I am going to try to make a very clickable thumbnail because that is the rule.

But I'm not going to go all the way to shocked face. I can't believe that this mundane thing is happening. Like, I'm just not gonna do that. And so I tailor, I tailor the message to the medium a little bit, but I still, like, I'm still gonna have rules that I don't break. And so that's how I think about the different platforms like x.

I just feel totally natural, totally fine. YouTube, I feel pretty comfortable. I don't follow all of the implicit rules. TikTok, I observe it and I'm like, that is not for me. Like, maybe that is how like, maybe some people feel incredibly comfortable there, and I would imagine that they're much younger than I am.

And that's awesome. And I realize I am aging out of like the popular social medias, and that's totally fine. I'm not, like, I'm not gonna play that game.

Simeon

Yeah. Much the same. Like, I know there are audiences on TikTok and Instagram, but I, yeah, I I don't have the taste for it, I think, is the word you used. And I think that's, how I see myself as well as I I know I can make a good YouTube video and, a reasonably good choice every now and then. But, yes, that's that's the difficult part is having a taste, and it's better just to not try and then put your resources into everything else.

Aaron

Yeah. I I

Simeon

think to the more I studied, like, the YouTube strategies at the moment, like, a title and thumbnail is still everything, but, I've been seeing that through the lens of that a lot of what makes great YouTube content, I think, is just good marketing strategy in general. So, yeah, I, a current forum working with is that the way that the things that make YouTube videos successful would actually make an entire marketing campaign successful anyway. And so you could filter those things back to the other platforms.

Aaron

Yes. And I think there's a, I think there's a failure mode of people that go on YouTube, and they're like, I'm not gonna play the YouTube meta game. Like, I'm not going to do silly thumbnails. And I'm like, that's fine. But people still have to want to click on your thumbnails.

Right? So you don't have to go all the way into crazy face. But if you put out, if you put out a video and it's got, like, a webinar name and, you know, webinar thumbnail, nobody's gonna click on it. And that might make you sad. If that doesn't make you sad, by all means, continue on.

But if you're gonna go on YouTube and have this moral stance of YouTube is awful and I'm not gonna play the game, you should expect results consistent with that. And I think that's where a lot of people get their mismatches. Like, I'm not gonna play the game, and I'm gonna be mad that I'm losing the game. And you're like, no. You're gonna be frustrated your whole life.

You have to, like, reason and and, make these two things coherent.

Simeon

Yeah. Distribution's important as well. And so, like, I think, like, there's entire audience on YouTube that would never be on x Correct. Where I feel like, particularly in web development and those who are on x and enjoy it, like, it's a bit of an echo chamber. Right?

Correct. Or, like, a it feels like everyone's there, but I bet there's a million developers on YouTube that aren't on Twitter at all. So Oh, easy. Reaching out to those audiences is super important as well because not everybody is on Twitter. Like, it feels like everybody is on Twitter.

Aaron

Yes. %.

Simeon

Do you have any thoughts too on, you're speaking about, like, I just wanna be myself on those platforms. People might might say that, but you end up becoming a version of yourself, I feel like, is the best strategy. Right? Like, I don't post every waking thought that I have on Twitter Yep. Though I would like to, But you still need to be true to yourself.

That's a difficult balance, isn't it? Because you can't be entirely yourself, because perhaps that would be detrimental to building an audience. Mhmm. But, yeah, you do need to be true to yourself as well, so that that authenticity we're coming back to, is still bought into.

Aaron

Yep. The way that the way that I think about this is, and I think I've thought about this a lot. I think if so just first, like, anecdotally, I think if somebody meets you in person or says about you in person, oh, they're this way online, but in person, they're just, you know, they're just this way and they're so whatever. Like that to me is indicative of, frankly, a moral failing. Like, if you go online and you pretend to be someone else under your own name and face, I'm not talking about playing a character behind a character name that's like art or whatever.

But if you go online as Simeon Griggs and you are playing a character and then in person, you're like, ah, like, hey, that was all pretend. Like, I'm just doing that so I can get clicks. It's like, I think that that is an awful thing to do personally. And so the way that I think about it is everything that I say online is 100% true and authentic and something that I like will put my whole chest behind and totally believe. 100% of what I say online is that way.

But that is a fraction of a % of who Aaron Francis is. Right? So I have, like, this this much bigger, deeper well of personality, and a portion of that is expressed online. And so

Simeon

vertical slice is what you're pointing

Aaron

out there. Exactly. And so I don't talk about politics online. In fact, I don't talk or think about politics very much at all, but I definitely don't do it online. I very rarely, if ever, talk about my children online.

My children are a much bigger part of my life than Laravel, but I just don't, like, I don't want to speak on their behalf when they're so young and put them out into places they had no control over. Right?

Simeon

Yeah.

Aaron

And so I'll share pictures of them, and their faces are always covered. And that's just a decision that we have made as a family because it's like they're three and one. They didn't have a say in this. Yeah. And I very rarely will talk about religion online.

And when I do, it's always as it relates to me as an individual. And so those are some, like, those are some decisions that I have made, and all of those things are very available to, like, offline friends. So, like, if we're at a conference or I'm, like, with my local friends, all of those things are on the table. But I just don't bring all of those things to the Internet because one, it's like, who's out there? Like, who's out there listening?

Who's out there watching? I don't know. I don't know. And then some things are just not. It's just hard for them to go well on the Internet.

And a lot of, like, those things that I just described require, like, long, deep, nuanced conversations where, like, even I am trying to work out my stances and my beliefs. And the Internet, at least, you know, at least Twitter is not a great place to work out your own beliefs publicly with Nuance. Like, that's just going to go poorly for you. And so that's kinda my stance is, like, everything that you say online should be a % true and authentic, but you don't have to say everything that you believe.

Simeon

Yeah. Yeah. That's a a a good mix. And, again, sort of that tricky balance thing is no one would follow you if you only ever talk about databases. But Correct.

Like a but everybody would walk away if you talk about everything, but all they wouldn't know you was the database guy if you talk about everything other than databases. So, like Yes. Picking one of those one or two things in your life that people are interested in, like, I like running. So I'll post about that occasionally, but then I'll also talk about content management because, yeah, you wanna mix that up to some degree, but it's absolutely not everything.

Aaron

And in some ways, this is, I think the most interesting analogy for this is you are creating an API for yourself. Right? So you are creating a known way, for other people to interact with you. Right? So when you become somewhat of a meme, and I say meme in terms of, like, it's like a condensing of complexity.

Right? So a meme can communicate this, like, really nuanced thing in a funny image. Right? But when you meme yourself, you're condensing your, like, full personality complexity into something a little bit smaller, and you're giving people affordances. You're giving them, like, handles onto which they can grasp.

And so people know that they can approach me about databases, about videos, about having twins, about, you know, trying hard, about like putting yourself out there, because those are things that I continually talk about. And that gives people a way to interact with me through, like, a known protocol. So when they think of databases, they think, oh, I could go, like, talk to Aaron about that because he has exposed that port publicly. And, like, I know that he talks about that. Let's talk about that together.

Simeon

And so

Aaron

I think creating, like, your personal API, your social API for, like, the world to interact with is a good way to think about it.

Simeon

Yeah. I think I just got the podcast episode title, from Exposing your reports. Yeah. Maybe that one. Let's not go with titles.

Aaron

Yeah. Let's not go with that one. That one needs the context.

Simeon

You hit so many lines. I don't wanna follow on that one. I'm I'm so distracted. I suppose, last one, I'll start wrapping up because I'm I'm I'm, thankful for your time here. But, like, and, actually, just one more comment on what you've said there because I think it's interesting is that you can't give yourself a nickname.

Right? No. But you've put those things out there, and some of those things have caught on more than others, and and people now know you as those things. But it would be impossible, I think, to, like, start a new account today on x, the everything app, and try and become that guy. Like, people need to see you for that and and, that you can build that audience around it once it catches on.

So Mhmm. And put yourself out there and and see what happens. The last thing I've got, I suppose, is developing taste, which we sort of touched on a few times. Do you think it's possible to develop taste, or is that innate? Or again, is, like, everything is the answer a little bit in between?

Because, like, being able to write a hit tweet or, like, create a a really great video, I think it requires a certain amount of taste. Do you think much about developing taste, or is it still just basically scratching your niche? Or, like, did you look at what's working? Because, you know, again, that's a very popular YouTube strategy as well as find a format that's working in a different industry, and they're just about to make your industry's version of that. So how much time do you think about researching taste?

You talked about, like, doing some I'll go your research there before, or do you think, like, I'm I'm just putting everything through the Aaron Francis lens?

Aaron

It is the latter. I'm putting everything through the Aaron Francis lens, but that is not, that is not something that is, like, divinely inspired. Right? I think I think just naturally, I think you can be born or, come into a certain amount of, like, good taste just naturally. I do believe that that is true.

But if we take taste and we, like, switch it over to, athletic talent, right, you can be born with a certain amount of, like, god given natural athletic ability, but you can still get outworked by an average person and get totally freaking destroyed. And I think that's the same that's the same thing when it comes to taste is you can be born with a good eye or like you can have grown up in a situation that gives you good taste. Right? And that's lucky for you, and you should lean into that. But if you feel like, man, I don't have good taste at all, that's fine.

You can 100% learn it. And I think the first step to having good taste is paying attention. Because I think if you pay attention, you start to see things like, boy, that spacing is all wonky, isn't it? Like, oh, why do I feel like that spacing is wonky? Oh, because, wait a second.

I should in my next, you know, UI or whatever, I should remember that. And you add up enough of those things over time, and then suddenly you have good taste. Right? And so I think the first step is, one, and this is probably not advice that anyone needs, consume a lot. You just need to consume a lot.

Right?

Simeon

Yeah.

Aaron

But as you're consuming, you need to consume with a a critical eye, which is not to say criticize it, but, like, observe it and break it down and say, boy, I really like that video. Oh, hey. Woah. Let's back up. Why?

Why did I like that video? Yeah. What was it about that? And what are the, so, like, I really liked when Simeon did that. Okay.

What is the principle like? Why did I like that? And is there an underlying principle that I can pull out and say because it was a callback joke or because it showed, it showed, like, self deprecation. And then you can start to think like, alright. I've got my little stable of principles here that I have observed from other creators, and now I'm starting to form what is the Aaron Francis lens.

Right? And then I run all the ideas through that, and that's just merely a conglomeration of a massive amount of consumption and, like, critical eye and consolidation into what I think is good. And that is what is really important is you have to develop you have to develop enough internal rules so that you can look at something and say, I think that is good, and I think that is bad. And until you get to that point, it's like, well, just keep consuming and keep writing notes and watching a random YouTube video about how to dig a basement under your own house, which I do. I'll watch these YouTube videos and be like, oh, that was that was a great little I see what he did there.

That was a great little technique. Let's put that back in the I'll watch a Seinfeld episode and think, Oh, that was genius. Like, we're that goes back, goes back into the bank. And so enough of those things put together is taste. And I think it's a % learnable.

You just have to be you have to pay attention. You have to be diligent about it.

Simeon

Yeah. And I think it can be surprising after the fact when you learn those techniques, like, how deliberate Yes. Good quality content is. I mentioned it to Jason Langsdorf because, like, you were at the web dev challenge we recorded last year. Like, how much work goes in behind the scenes to produce that quality of content?

It's like it's it's no accident that that content looks so good in the end because a lot of deliberate practice went into it.

Aaron

Yes.

Simeon

And this dovetails nicely into I wanted to talk lastly about the screencasting, course, which I I'm a graduate of and can highly recommend. I I think I've sold at least one copy of that course to somebody else.

Aaron

Amazing.

Simeon

Thank you. And but but that too had a lot of, like, deliberate practice. I'm like, this is what you should be doing for lighting and framing videos and that sort of thing. And I think it's really cool too. I've seen other people post screencasts, and I'm like, that person has taken the screencasting course because they've like, their window arrangement looks the same as you learn in that.

So, yeah, I'm a big fan of that course, and I think it's very cool to teach all the techniques required to make good screencasts. I suppose the question maybe you're sick of answering this question, but, like, the now we're in the age of AI, and do we need people telling us how things work anyway? Like, just today, I there was a camera setting on here because I'm in America. Those likes flickering. I asked Chetcheapiti what do I do, and it walked me through how to change the camera settings.

I still believe that there's great value in having a person sit across the camera and teach you how to do things. I'm guessing you're still a strong believer in that as well. Do you have

Aaron

Yeah.

Simeon

Thoughts on that going forward?

Aaron

Yeah. A lot. I mean, I think your example is a good one where, like, at this point, you're not gonna look up a YouTube video about that setting.

Simeon

And, like I'm not gonna buy a course.

Aaron

You're not gonna buy a course. No. And that is that is okay. I think that's fine. I think we can survive that.

I I think, an interesting externality of this AI movement is, the computers are getting better and better and better. And I think at the same time, people want more and more human connection. And so we're kind of in this space where it's like that can you can ask the computer literally to do anything. And I I am a big a AI user. When I'm coding, I'm, like, asking AI all sorts of things.

And so I'm not like I'm not anti and I'm not a Luddite at all. Yeah. But I am, you know, an educator that makes videos. So I am thinking about, like, what is my role in this new world? And I think there are I think there are, we'll say, at least two roles for the human to play.

One is the human connection. Right? So, you took screencasting.com. A big portion of that is me transferring the belief to you that you can do this thing. Right?

So a big part of that course is, like, listen. It's hard. Like, you're gonna record an entire video without a microphone, and it sucks. And I've been there. And trust me, the next video is gonna be better.

Like, that second take you do after you get up and you go, like, walk outside and scream and then come back inside, that second take is going to be better. You can do it. I've been there. And so that's a big part of, like, something that the AI can't do. It can it can mimic that, but it doesn't hit because you know that they've never been there.

Right?

Simeon

It's a

Aaron

disembodied machine. And so I think, you know, being a human, being a human and connecting with other humans is still, is still uniquely human. And that's why I'm so, like, that's why I'm so bullish on video remaining a big thing. Written word, I don't if I was purely a writer, I would feel a lot more scared. But because I am primarily a video creator, I feel okay about that.

I think the second thing, a second role that humans can play is, is the curation and the comprehensive, the comprehensive curriculum that a human can, like, put together from their experience. So one thing, one common failure mode I see in people using AI, let's say, to code is they'll go and they'll ask a discrete question, and, the AI will give a discrete answer. But what you don't know is that there is a better way or, like, there's a different fundamental paradigm that you could have approached it with. But because you didn't ask, because you said, hey. How do I do this with this?

It said, here's how you do that with that. And in reality, it would have been better had you read the full documentation and known that thing x existed. And then you could have said to the AI, wait. Doesn't thing x exist? Why didn't you use that?

And it's gonna say, absolutely correct. That is a better solution. And so I think for human educators, it still remains valuable to populate the student's mind with the road map of what exists. Because then once you have, like, once you have the entire landscape of what exists, even if it's very foggy and vague, you can then go to the AI and say, Hey, listen, I remember learning that there is a way to do this and it was something shaped like this. Can Can you give me the details?

And the AI is like, yeah, I got you, man. But if you don't know what you don't know, it's really hard to be a, to be a really, a really effective user of AI. And I think that's a place where human intuition, human experience, human curation, cultivation still plays a big, big role. And that is something that, like, going back to your camera, maybe that is something you would buy a course on or, like, watch a few videos on, for example. Like, hey.

I just got a Canon r six, and I wanna set it up as a webcam. Here are the eight fifteen twenty settings and pieces of equipment and cables you need to set it up perfectly as a webcam. And then you can go to chat and say, like, hey, this setting is different in America. And it says, yeah, yeah, yeah. Back in The UK, it's called this, and in America, it's called that.

And you're like, oh, cool. Thanks. Awesome. Let's keep going. Yeah.

But I do think there's something still available for human educators in the, here is the way that you should do it, and here is the landscape of what exists.

Simeon

Yeah. It it makes me think of, and perhaps the truism through everything we've discussed today. It's about building trust. Right? Because Oh, yeah.

And that's what AI will do. It will it will act in a way that a human wouldn't and that it would break your trust by either hallucinating or or, yeah, like, leaving out important details like, you know, well, because if somebody asked you how to set up something with a database and that was the wrong thing, like, they just had the whole wrong idea, you wouldn't say, oh, you can you can keep you can keep doing that. You'd say, no. Step back and and let's, think larger about that. So, yeah, that trust building thing probably is true throughout all, human education is that, yeah, I I want you to trust me that I've got all of your best interests in mind.

Aaron

Mhmm. And like with Screencasting.com, for example, I am imparting a like, I'm imparting my taste to you, and I say that in the course. This is my taste. Feel free to steal it. This is my style.

Here's how I set up my windows. Here's where I put my camera. This is my style. You can steal it until and unless you make up your own. And I think that is, like, still that's still pretty valuable is here.

Like, you can go to the all knowing oracle and get all kinds of answers. Sometimes you just wanna be told what to do so you can get back to work, and I think that's still valuable.

Simeon

Yeah. Like, having an expert tell you, like, I've I've spent time in the trenches, and, this is what this is how I would do it. I know that that's incredibly useful. We find that with Sanity because it can do anything. Yes.

But there's a lot of people that just want to know, look, how would you do it? Because you do it all the time. And, I remember saying the same to, Adam, rather than at React last year. It's like, it would be cool to see a, some lessons like he's just published recently. Like, how does Adam use Tailwind?

Like, he's built the thing. There there's probably no one else, you know, more experience, using that. So, like, yeah, knowing from the person that spent the time building the thing how they would use the thing is incredibly valuable.

Aaron

Yep. I know that there are 10 different ways to do the thing. I don't care about that. Adam Yeah. How do you do it?

That's what I wanna know.

Simeon

Yeah. And I don't think I've changed any of the settings that I learned in the screencasting course. Like, I just told you. I just See? I use all the same Apple scripts that came out, like, because I just see?

Yeah. I don't I don't like, I'm not someone who hacks my system for, like, efficiency and has all the shortcuts. It's like, just please tell me the way to do it, and then I'm gonna get on with my wife. And, yeah, because I'd rather build the content than, and create the content rather than spend time trying to make the process, you know, 1% more efficient here and there. So No.

Very good. Cool. Well, thanks for your time on the podcast. Is there anything we didn't cover or any other tangents perhaps you wanted to go off on, or we can, we can rack it up tightly there?

Aaron

No. Let's wrap it up. I think, last thing is there's a new Screencasting.com release coming in the next few weeks, and maybe it's out by the time you're hearing this. So check out Screencasting.com for all new all new content. And, Simeon, if you've already purchased it, you own the new content, so you're fine.

So check out Screencast Screencasting.com.

Simeon

I'm very excited about the DaVinci Resolve one too. So that that's the one thing I wanna change is I I feel like I I feel like I need to grow up past screen

Aaron

as well. Mhmm.

Simeon

Yeah. So which is a shame because I'm very comfortable there, but it's time to sort of push outside the boundaries once again. So oh, thanks for coming out. Yep. Thanks for having

Aaron

me. Bye.