It's React in PHP

Ian

I like having to be here.

Dave

This week, Mostly Technical is brought to you by Lara Jobs, the official Laravel job board, and HelloQuery, which lets you empower your customers to build your own reports. Now, here's Ian and Aaron.

Ian

A little good vibe music to get us going.

Aaron

I like that intro.

Ian

That is

Aaron

a good intro. I don't usually hear it, and we're playing it live today.

Ian

Yeah. We're doing a little technical, change up here, playing the intro as part of kinda embedded in. So it's in the videos and everything too. So, hey. How's it going, man?

Good. It's good to be back. I feel like, I feel like we're off to

Aaron

the races. Episode 1 was great, and here we are for number 2.

Ian

Yeah. We got a lot of great feedback. People seem to really like it. So it was awesome.

Aaron

And you're in a new location. It's

Ian

am. It's distracting me because my the lighting is is going weird on me here. This camera. Alright.

Aaron

So is this the new office? Is this the new office?

Ian

It might be yellow today. Yes. So we have the dark see? Okay. It's auto correcting the color, but it's doing it oddly.

Yes. So we have the dark background. The rest is white, but the background is dark. And, I know I got my blue couch. I like it.

So, I don't know. I still have a few things. I have a light set up here, and my camera is freaking out on it. So I don't know. We'll we'll see.

I might have, some adjustments to do. I thought I had it all dialed in, but, you know, new location, new lighting set up. It's always something. Your lighting looks good. Do you even have a light?

You don't even have a light there. Do you?

Aaron

Even have a light. I'm just literally in the corner of the bedroom at at the Airbnb.

Ian

There you go. You're just basking in

natural sunlight.

Aaron

Natural natural Vermont sunlight. Yeah. We have we have friends here week, and so they kicked me out of the the bunk room that I was in. And so now I'm in our bedroom in the corner trying to make it look like I'm not in a bedroom, which I think I succeeded at. This feels, you know, this feels pretty normal.

Ian

Yeah. It's like you're in a loft space or something.

Aaron

Yeah. Exactly.

Ian

Yeah. It looks good. Alright. Alright. So we did have a couple of podcast business, note here, which is that we are gonna try to do some mailbags.

So if you wanna email in with questions or follow-up or anything like that, just stuff we talk about, you could do so at mostlytechnicalpodcast@gmail.com. So hit us up there. I guess I'll link that in the show notes, maybe. And then, yeah. We'll we'll you know, I don't know if we'll get to all of them.

Most likely not if it starts to build up, but we will try to, pick some cool ones each week and and hit those. Okay. This whole this lighting is distracting me. I'm just

Aaron

getting distracted. Off. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

It is. It's, like, totally throwing off my whole game here, but that's alright. We'll first

be What

Aaron

camera what camera are you using?

Ian

I'm using the Logitech 4 k that is specially built for the Apple, whatever the big monitor is. I have the the 32 inch monitor, whatever that thing is. The x

Aaron

And do you have external lights?

Ian

I do have external lights. But I also have natural light, and I think it's it's freaking the camera out, like, trying to match the, color. Let's try alright. Well, let's just do it live here. Let's see.

Alright. See, if I do that, if I turn off the lights, it looks like a pretty natural shift.

Aaron

To me. Yeah. I'm gonna stick with the right color

Ian

until I, get that fixed. I thought I had it dialed in, but now I don't have it dialed in.

Aaron

It's no easy easy process, especially when the camera when the camera is trying to compensate and then a cloud rolls over and your whole room changes and the camera freaks out and then yeah. It's no easy process.

Ian

What do you do for camera while we're in this here?

Aaron

So at home, so at home, I have a Canon M50, which is a DSLR, and I run it through the Elgato Cam Link. So, like, the capture card. Yeah. Because Canon does have Canon does have software, but it sucks. Like, it's just it's totally unusable.

Yep. So I just run it through HDMI capture, and Elgato's software is amazing. So that's what I do. And I have a, like, a Sigma lens on it. So I have a new lens, a a different lens on it.

And then I do have, some lights. And then I do my best to block out all, natural lighting as much as I can.

Ian

I know. This is gonna be a problem for me because I have 2 big lights here. And I do have, like, these blinds over them, but they're they're not, like, blackout. So it's gonna be mixing. I know I've been trying to resist doing the full, camera setup, but I might not.

Maybe I'll have to go with it. But I do have camera I could use, a Sony camera, but I don't know. It's like, then I gotta mount this camera and deal with all this stuff, like, the whole thing. You're down the rabbit hole. Yeah.

Exactly. So I don't know. We'll see. Maybe I'll I'll be forced to do it. But Well,

Aaron

I look forward to you definitely doing that and definitely buying a bunch of gear and

Ian

we can talk about it. So I

Aaron

know I know exactly where this is gonna end and I'm really excited about it.

Ian

There's no choice. Right? It's just No. It has to end this way.

Aaron

No one has ever said, I have a Sony DSLR and I'll maybe use it or maybe not and ended up not using it. I I just it's gonna be great. I'm excited for you.

Ian

I know. And you could direct connect it with USB c, but I already know, like, that's, you know like like you said, it's probably, like, whatever. I'm gonna need the software from some the Elgato or something. It's just gonna be a multistep thing and but then it is nice because I don't like how zoomed in I am necessarily on the way Riverside does this. And, like, so if I had a, like, lens, I could, like, tweak that and all those things, which would be nice.

So that's probably where we're heading.

Aaron

Well That's

Ian

a

Aaron

I'm here tonight. So, yeah, it's a write off. Just write it off. It's gonna be great. Yep.

So I've been seeing you tweet a lot we're fools and how is it changing the game. So I I for I don't watch a lot of sports. The only sport I ever do watch is soccer. But I don't watch a I don't watch a lot of it. I know.

Weird. Right?

Ian

Okay. Yeah. That's

Aaron

I grew up I grew up playing soccer to, like that soccer was my entire life until I turned 18 and left for college.

Ian

Oh, okay.

Aaron

So what is what is the deal that he has? And he turned did he turn down a bunch of Saudi money to come here?

Ian

Yeah. So, I mean, for people who don't know, because in America, not everybody knows, like, Messi's probably the biggest soccer star, him or, Ronaldo. But, and yeah. So he was leaving Europe. Saudi Arabia offered him tons of money as they're trying to get into sports.

Like, they just bought the PGA Tour, essentially, or whatever. Like, they're trying to kinda scoop up with these different sort of edge, sports, at least from the American perspective, edge sports. And, Yeah. And so Messi decided to come to America, so which is great. We've been Messi fans for a long time.

My son, you know, when he my son's actually a little bit off of soccer the last year or so, but, my middle kid, he was playing 7 days a week at one point. Like, super into soccer, travel team, another travel team, the whole thing. So he was super into Messi, and this one, Messi was with Barcelona. And yeah. So we've just kinda followed Messi, like, we're not so much fans of a particular team.

We're Messi fans, essentially. And so we've been following him around. And so now he's in America. And, yeah, he's just a it's it's been a very interesting move. Yeah, his deal is I mean, he took less money, but it's still, I think, $50,000,000 a year or something like that.

Yeah. And then also, my understanding is that he also gets a so, Apple has exclusive rights to stream Major League Soccer, and he gets a percent of the new sign ups to Apple Holy. MLS subscription service or whatever. So, because, you know, they know he's gonna be a big deal, but I don't think anybody thought he was gonna be this big a deal. I have to say, like, he's kind of super exploded.

He's everywhere. I mean, he I was in New York City a week ago, and he's already got billboards in New York City, like, Hard Rock Cafe has a special sandwich for him. Like, I think he's gonna make more money than than he would have otherwise.

Aaron

Having the power to go to Apple Apple as an athlete and be like, alright. Part of my deal is you have to pay me for new sign ups.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

We're outside. We're outside the team. We're outside the league. We're now talking about just Yeah. It's titan of industry, and he's going to Apple and commanding a a take, which is pretty incredible.

Ian

Yep. It is. And especially incredible, I think, in America to me because he's so kind of the anti US athlete. Like, he's just this little guy. He's, like, 56.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

He doesn't look imposing in any way. He you know, if he was your accountant or something, you'd be like, yeah, you know, he's like a guy, whatever. But, but he's, like, the best soccer player ever.

Aaron

I mean

Ian

No. He's not super flashy. On the

Aaron

field on the field, he's incredible. But off the field, he's just kinda like he's kinda he's kinda quiet, kinda shy, just kinda walks around. He doesn't, like, he doesn't make a scene. And that is very that is very counter, what we expect from our athletes. We expect our athletes to show up in

Ian

a big way. He's, like, married to his, like, high school Uh-huh. Or even before high school, I think, because he left Argentina when he was, like, 12 or something to go to Spain. I think they might have already been together kind of then or knew each other then. So, yeah.

He's, like, just kind of a normal ish guy. I mean, I'm sure he's obviously incredibly wealthy and all those things, but at least on the surface, he seems kinda normal. So, but, yeah, definitely not like you're a baseball player or a football player or a basketball player where they're always massive and Mhmm. You know, flashy and all that stuff. So, yeah.

And even on the field, he's kind of, like, laid back even compared to other players. He's he walks a lot and

He walks

Aaron

a ton.

Ian

Yeah. So And

Aaron

he never dives. He never, like, screams. He just kinda takes it and then wins, which is awesome. I love that

Ian

about him. It is crazy that, like, I mean, partially he's messy, so I guess he can just get away with doing what he wants. Right? But, like, I don't know. Maybe there's something to playing the way he plays.

Like, I don't know. Maybe conserving your energy for those explosive moments has, you know, its advantages and things. But so, yeah. Messi, I mean, I don't know. So he's he's been on this run where he joined in during this cup, which is like a tournament.

And, Yeah. He's won 5 games in a row, I think. And he's got, like, 8 goals in the 5 games. He's had the very first game, he had the game winning penalty kick goal and, like, or a foul kick goal. Mhmm.

So, yeah, it's just been super every every match has been really exciting. So, yeah, it's great. I think people should definitely check it out. It's, like, $12 to, like, subscribe to Apple Soccer streaming thing for a month. Tuesday night, they're playing.

But, yeah, it's just it's just so great. But

Aaron

They came through Dallas recently, and obviously, I'm not there. But I have some friends who were there who looked at tickets, and the tickets shot up to, like it was, like, $450 a ticket. And it's like, they I don't think FC Dallas I don't even know if that's what we're called anymore. I think that's what we're called. I don't know if FC Dallas has sold out a game ever, and now the tickets are $450 just to get in the door.

It's pretty it's pretty wild.

Ian

Yeah. These tickets are, like, $20 or whatever, you know, at most of these stadiums. And then, yeah, they're all going for, like, 250 to 550 depending on the city and

Aaron

Yeah. Here's here's my hope for Messi. My hope for Messi for him in particular is just that he gets fabulously wealthy and has a lot of fun being, you know, an American. But my hope is that he takes the MLS and like it's a retirement league now, right?

Ian

It's for

Aaron

all, it's for Wayne Rooney and all the guys come over here and spend the last 5 years getting paid and having

Ian

fun. Right.

Aaron

And just, you know, stomping all over the, the American players. I hope that it like, renews interest in soccer and takes the MLS up a up a notch from the retirement league to, like, eventually, we'll be competitive. I know it's a long shot, but we'll see.

Ian

Yeah. That's my hope too. I mean, I think it would be really cool to have it be closer to home. It's hard to watch, like, the European game sometimes because the times are weird and stuff. And it's just, like, not in your daily routine.

Whereas if it was, like, here, it would be Yeah. Just whatever. You see it on the news or whatever. You'd just be hearing about it. People you know would be talking about it and stuff.

So, yeah, that's my hope too is that he kinda just gets gets more people interested in it. And so bizarre, because America I mean, so many kids play soccer. Like, it's a huge kids' sport, but then Yep. I don't know. It just doesn't translate into the major leagues as much as it's not as much interest when people get older.

I guess a lot of the best Americans probably go to Europe, kind of as the first stop, since that's sort of the premier destination. But, I mean, you would think if you can get the money rolling in on the American side and, you know, then get some talent. And we have I'm sure, obviously, everybody's paying attention and seeing what he's doing and being, like, oh, if I could be the star of one of these teams, that's, you know, get that recognition and everything. So but, yeah, it's it's super fun. And if you've never watched soccer, I mean, it's it's so much different than American sports too just because it's, like, boom, an hour and 40 minutes, it's done.

Like Yep. There's no like, it's not 3 and a half hours. It's really not. Commercial.

Just controlling.

You got, like, a 10 minute halftime and that's it. Like, otherwise, it's just all go in the whole time. No commercial breaks or anything like that. So it's it's nice that way too because, like, oh, yeah. It's, like, an hour and a half, hour 40 minutes.

It's not my whole day. I don't have to dedicate, like, a flat 5 hour block to watching it. Like, it's like, nope. I can just watch it and get be entertained and then, you know, move on to the next thing. So at this point in my life, that's kinda nice too because finding 4 hour blocks is tricky.

So Yeah. We can do that.

Aaron

You're telling you're telling me.

Ian

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Alright. So you gotta watch Tuesday night then.

Aaron

Yeah. Watch Tuesday night. And the last thing I'll say on soccer before we lose everyone is I'm really bummed that the the Women's World Cup is in Australia. I think it's a pretty big band. Yeah.

It's just like it's impossible to watch. Also, we got eliminated early, which Yeah. Is embarrassing. But I tried to watch, you know, some of the games, and it was, like, 1 AM, 3 AM, 5 AM. Yeah.

Ian

I was like, what what am I

Aaron

gonna do here? So that's soaked.

Ian

And then sports speak or in any kind of, like No. Replay later. I need to watch it live. So Yeah. Yeah.

That's a bummer. But World Cup, next World Cup, men's World Cup is in America. I don't know.

Aaron

I know.

Ian

Where they get the women's I don't think the women's is. I don't know how the women's works. But

Aaron

Yeah. I think it's all across North America, and I think I think Dallas Fort Worth is getting one because we've got,

Ian

Jerry World.

Aaron

We've got the Cowboys stadium down there. So oh, man. That would be incredible.

Ian

Yeah. You're gonna

Aaron

Love to go to the game. Yeah.

Ian

And and your 2 2 of your kids will be old enough by then to set something out of it.

Aaron

What's the what year is it? Is it 2024 or 26?

Ian

No. It just happened. So it was, but that was delayed

Aaron

from 22.

Ian

Right? So I think it's 26.

Aaron

26. Yeah.

Ian

I think it's 26.

Aaron

Oh, that'll be perfect for the kids. It'll be Yeah. 5 or whatever.

Ian

Yeah. That's that'll be great. They'll get a kick out of that.

Aaron

Oh, man. Man. Yeah. That's gonna be fun.

Ian

Alright. Well, now that we've lost all of our,

Aaron

all of our listeners, we can talk about anything we want.

Ian

That that first one was so good. What happened on the second one? They they totally lost.

Aaron

They say winter sports podcast. Yeah. Mostly sports.

Ian

Alright. Let's talk about your your awards. You received a a a an award? I don't know what you call it.

Aaron

I I don't know. I'm I'm now an Oracle ace pro. Yeah. So it's like it I think it's like, you know how AWS has, like, their AWS heroes?

Ian

Mhmm.

Aaron

And it's like recognizing members of the community who do a thing. And so, there's a guy, called Frederick who is, like, the Oracle MySQL community manager. And he reached out to me a little while back and was like, hey, I nominated you to be an Oracle ACE Pro. I was like, what what what do you mean?

Ian

Like, I

Aaron

don't know I don't know what that is. Tell me more. Yeah. And it's it's really it's just like a a program where there's, like, some, you know, there's some swag, of course. So I gotta submit, you know, my t shirt size so I can get all my Oracle swag.

Ian

I like that.

Aaron

Yep. And then they do stuff at different conferences. They'll have like a like an ace pro, you know, discount or set up at the stuff. But, really, it's just a way to be like, hey. You're a member of this community, and we wanna recognize your work.

And it's really cool for me because I, you know, I got my degree in I'm, like, an accounting major. And now this, like, now this, you know, database company of database companies is like, hey, you're really good at this. It's like, oh, maybe I am good at this. So that felt that felt really cool and, you know, it's

Ian

It's so cool.

Aaron

It's one of those things where it's like, I don't really have to do anything except keep doing what I'm already doing and then, like, tell them, like, hey. I wrote an article about my SQL. I'm like, great. Here's, you know, credit towards your Ace Pro, you know, account or whatever.

Ian

So you

Aaron

have to keep up a certain amount of points or whatever.

Ian

And Okay. Just to keep, like, the status. Just to keep

Aaron

the status. And I I assume that, like, if I were in a different, like, if I were pursuing a different type of career, I would imagine that this would be, like, I would plaster this all over my LinkedIn. I would have, like, ace pro member, Aaron Francis.

Ian

Right. But

Aaron

it's like, for me, it's just kinda, oh, that's that's really nice of them but it doesn't really change, you know, my professional my my plans or my outlook for anything. Yeah. But feels cool. I don't know. Yeah.

Who doesn't who doesn't love winning stuff?

Ian

I love winning stuff.

It's funny. If you had it before you did the screen cast of, the MySQL stuff, then you could have that that would have been cool to have before and be like, hey. I'm an Oracle ACE

Aaron

I'm an Oracle IS Pro. Yeah. Doing this course, you

Ian

know, like, that would be call, but

Aaron

Exactly. I'm doing it I'm doing it in a, an addendum to the course. And so maybe I'll start with that in the first, as as my intro, Org Plays pro, Aaron Francis. Yeah. So

Ian

What's the addendum?

Aaron

The addendum is gonna be on, sharding MySQL. So when you get to when you get to big big time levels and you have to put your data across multiple databases, what's the what's the theory behind it? What are the different ways to do it? What is, know, do you do it application side or database side? What are the drawbacks?

That kind of stuff. So That'd be cool. Yeah. So it'll be a little bit more it'll be a little bit more, advanced because of the, you know, the first course I did was kinda intro, like, 4 developers. And this will be which is really, really good for PlanetScale because it's super, like, top of the funnel.

Everyone can do it and learn and become aware of PlanetScale. This is more, you know, from a PlanetScale point of view, a little bit further down the funnel. It's like if you're learning about sharding and you need to shard your data, you probably should just come to us and, like, we can help you do that. So that's the theory here is it's like, we'll teach a little bit more advanced and have fewer people take it, but, hopefully, a higher number of those people be like, I'm just gonna bail and go with PlanetScale.

Ian

Well, there is some interesting stuff with sharding too because, I mean, where even just the run of the mill dev probably should at least be aware of it in that, like, one of the things we're gonna do for HelpSpot so HelpSpot currently so I don't think we're talking about HelpSpot here yet, but it's, like, my help desk application, which is our main product. And so it started as on premise. So everybody just, you know, installed it wherever. And then over the years, we have cloud version. But it's like a cloud version where we just, spin up servers for you and install HubSpot on it, because that was the easiest way to do it.

And we're gonna be rebuilding it, and so we're thinking about the different ways to kinda go about that. And it's gonna end up being the new version will be just a fully like, an actual cloud based service. And, so no on, there'll still be well, I'm not gonna get into all that. But anyway, that'll be the we'll talk about that someday. But anyway, we think about the sharding aspect of it, and we've actually had a lot of success with doing it, how we actually do it now, which is, per tenant databases.

So every even though we use one database server, but every customer gets their own database on the database server.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

And so I do think that's, like, a method that people don't even think about, and they just default to, like, having tenant IDs and having one modular database. But it is does get quite a bit more complicated when, obviously, as you're gonna talk about in this course, I presume, you know, when you get to a 1,000,000,000 rows and you need to, like, you know, start spreading things out across more servers,

Aaron

then,

Ian

you know, it has its own complications. Whereas the per tenant databases, in some ways, I like better because it's like I could have a big customer on their own database server even. Or I could, like, separate all these out. Or if I need more database server capacity, I just add a new database server. And now I start putting new accounts over there.

And so, there are definite downsides, like you will need to do a migration, and now how do you do that Right. Across a bunch of different databases. The database server doesn't necessarily like having lots of tables, which just creates lots of tables. So there are different, pluses and minuses. But, but, yeah, having a course that kinda goes through the different styles, just so that people are even aware of them is kinda interesting since nowadays people just default to, like, we'll have to put tenant IDs on every table and and go that route.

So there are actually other options out there.

Aaron

So where do you do your is is it on Laravel? It's on Laravel latest. Right? Or

Ian

What is that? The health app? Yeah. It's on Laravel. Yeah.

Aaron

It's, you know, 18 years old now, so I don't

Ian

know which parts

Aaron

which part It's a hybrid.

Ian

It's not all Laravel for sure. It's, like, there is not Laravel, but it's, like, not really using Laravel's routing. It's not really using like, a lot of the functions are still from, like, function libraries and things from Mhmm. 18 years ago. And we're just calling those functions and things still.

So there's still a lot of Where

Aaron

do you do your tenant switching or, like, your tenant pinning? How do you set up all the different data base?

Ian

It when you create a new account, they actually spin up a small AWS t 3 server. Mhmm. And so and then on that server, all the, like, secrets are obviously put on there, and every customer gets their own, database and database user. So it's all just it's like you're deploying a you're a little app for yourself. There's not anything too magical going on.

It's just that those are written into the environment file when we create the account, and then, just goes from there.

Okay.

And then we actually and do a DNS entry for them on Cloudflare. And so they get, like, an actual, a record type DNS entry for the account through past through Cloudflare. So it doesn't, you know, it goes has the Cloudflare magic in front of it. But, yeah. So it's, like, creating a

Aaron

cool. Y'all are doing a lot of y'all are doing a lot of infrastructure automation there if that's what you're doing

Ian

for every customer. Yeah. There's a lot of which is pretty cool

Aaron

because, I mean,

Ian

a normal SaaS app Right. Would've been a huge undertaking, which we've started and failed at a few times, because of me and changing priorities. But, but anyway so yeah. So it does do that. I mean, it one of the big downsides of that is it does take, like, a few minutes to start up a trial.

So that part is pretty annoying. Oh, yeah. But for HelpSpot, the type of app is not a huge deal either because, like, nobody's, like, buying it or not buying it based on that. It's not that kind of thing. Like, you know, we do demos.

It's more of an enterprise y sales process. So, you know, oftentimes, they're checking out 6 or 7 different tools, and there might be 3 or 4 or 10 people involved in picking it. So, yeah. But, yeah, there's a lot of infrastructure automation. It's all automated, and with, like, Ansible.

And I don't know. This is not my end of the world, so I don't know the deep, deep details on it all. But, yeah. Maybe, Christopher Dow set it up initially, then Matt Stinson, who works here now, is in charge of that stuff. And, you know, they do a great job, which has some that's a whole another infrastructure thing that's quite interesting.

Again, nobody ever thinks to do that. It's, like, well, I'm just gonna have front end servers and, you know, kind of standard SaaS setup, which we're, like I said, gonna be moving to, because it is overall nicer. But there are these advantages of doing it our way, which is that, like, if a customer go like, one customer can go down and nobody else is down. Yeah. Like, somebody bit does something horrible and, you know, wrecks their server, then that's unfortunate and, like, that one customer's down.

But everybody else is totally fine. Like, there's no impact on anybody else. And so, the only we still have the database server as a single point of failure, although, you know, there are some controls in my SQL that we have set up for, like, per user caps and things. So even that has some protections from, like, a bad user. And then, yeah.

And then we use RDS, so it has the hot fail over, multi multi I forgot what they call it. But, the multizone RDS, so it's always a hot backup. But yeah. So that is kind of a nice aspect to it. It's like your whole system's not down if if one customer goes wild.

Aaron

You just gotta know a lot about servers, man. And I don't know.

Ian

Lot of server stuff. Like Lot of server stuff.

Aaron

I don't have a, you know, Chris Faddau or Matt working for me. So

Ian

And hundreds of, servers, you know. So there's just, like, there's an update or something or, like, Ubuntu has a new update. So Matt's been, like, taking him, like, a month to slowly roll out this, like, the new LTS update to everybody. So, you know, there's stuff like that that's not in the books.

Aaron

No. No. I don't think so. I'll stick to my Vapor. Thank you.

Alright.

Ian

Yes. Yes. Vapor. I haven't built anything on vapor yet. I'd like to build something on vapor here at some point.

Aaron

Yeah. It's good. It's very good. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it its sweet spot is, you know, of course, Jack Ellis has Fathom on it and they're running, you know, billions of requests through it. But for me, I feel like the sweet spot is for doing little projects because

Ian

Right.

Aaron

You don't you don't have to have some server that you babysit and you don't have to worry about coming back a year later and being like, what? I need to do what updates to what? And you just kinda like, yeah. It just runs. And if, you know, nothing's coming through, it just, you know, turns off.

Ian

Shuts down. Yeah.

Aaron

So I I really like it. And the fact that you can just, like, set it up and hit deploy and go is is pretty freaking nice. So

Ian

Yeah. The variable sort of usage is really nice too. Because, like, I mean, even in in HelpSpot, there's, like we have a very, like, standard usage profile. It's, like, very b to b app. Like, middle of the week, it's high.

And then, like, you know, by, like, 7 or 8 at night, it's, like, way down. And then the weekends, it's way down. So we are paying for tons of capacity that we don't use, you know, on a Saturday or whatever where we don't even need it. So have you played with the MySQL auto scaling stuff in that vapor's connected to? Or

Aaron

No. I haven't.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

No. And I I don't really know anything about it, actually.

Ian

Yeah. They had yeah. AWS has a I think it's Aurora. But

Aaron

Oh, yeah.

Ian

Yeah. So if you wanna scale up with demand, but I don't know.

Kinda scary.

Aaron

There are some there are some opinions about Aurora internally at at Scale, which I will refrain from from airing out in public, but, no. I have not

Ian

I've never used it.

Aaron

I have not played

Ian

with it.

Okay. So you wait. This is not on our schedule here, but you're an accounting major, and I'm an accounting major. So I don't know if

Aaron

Are you an accounting major?

Ian

Aware of that. Yes. I wanted to make you aware of that. So you knew we were we were brothers here.

Aaron

Oh my gosh. Wait. You did you

Ian

have a practice? No. I was never an accountant. I just have an accounting degree.

Aaron

No way.

Ian

Then I

was like, I don't wanna do this. Forget it.

Aaron

Well, you made the decision you made the decision 1 year earlier than I did. So I spent a year at Ernst and Young doing people's taxes, and I was like Yep. F this. No way. Yep.

Ian

That's where I got my wild. Yeah. I got a job at the NASDAQ, in New York City, and I was gonna have to, you know, I was gonna be some internal accounting

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

Funky. And this is, like, in, I don't know, 2,000 or whatever it was. And, yeah, I was, like, gonna pay, like, $32,000 a year. And I'm I was gonna have to live in New York City on $2,000 a year, which even back then was, like, impossible. I was, like, well, after my rent and I eat, I'm, like, negative $500 a month.

Oh, gosh. And then, like, I'm in New York City. I'm gonna wanna do stuff. Right. And so I was like, oh, forget it.

So I didn't take the job then, I went this whole whole different route and, learned to program and all that stuff. But

Aaron

Did you did you love accounting in school?

Ian

No. But I did like the accounting courses in the sense of, like, I thought they were more interesting than the pure business courses because it's, like, you've got the different angle on it. And so, like, I didn't like accounting even then. I was, like, oh, I have no interest in this debits and credits and doing this stuff. Like, I don't I don't really wanna do this.

Aaron

Loved it. I loved it.

Ian

Oh, really? So I didn't like that part of it? But I like the, like, business analysis part because then we have these, like, projects that were, like, analyze its business and its financials. It's not like that part was cool, but the, like, actually grinding out the debuts and credits or the taxes, that wasn't really I wasn't too keen on that. So you you loved it in school, though?

Aaron

Jam. Yeah. I loved it so much. The debits and credits was just, like yeah. I think it scratched the same part of my brain that programming does.

Ian

Oh, for sure.

Aaron

Like, there's a solution. You can get there, you know, you can get there a few different ways, but you will know at the end if you did it correctly because it should balance out.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

It's like, oh, this makes sense. It felt like a puzzle to me. And then even more so in when I got into my, like, graduate level stuff and doing the tax part, the tax taxes was just another layer on top of debits and credits. It's like, here's here's a bunch of rules, and here's a bunch of things that happened, you know, a bunch of transactions. Figure out what the answer is.

It's like, I can do this. This sounds great. I love this. And then then, you know, you get to the, you get to the big firm and you're the lowest man on the totem pole, and it's like, put these numbers from this form onto this form.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

Oh, dude. This is miserable. And so, I waited long enough to receive my, CPA exam bonus, and they couldn't take it back from me. And then I then I peaced out. I was like, I'm out of here.

Ian

Do you have your masters?

Aaron

I do. Yeah. Master's in. I think I recently let it expire, but I have my my CPA license as well.

Ian

You're totally official. That's awesome. Yeah. You just did my bachelor's. That's it.

Yeah. That's cool.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. I always thought it was a lot like programming. This used to be my shtick when I was still applying for jobs, before I started UsurScape, was just that, like, accounting is very like programming, in that you know you just basically have to kinda know the high level to me. It's like, I know that there are some rules around this thing. Like, I see this thing and I know there's something to it.

There's rules around it, and then I can go look up the rules. Like, I could go look up the taxes, you know, regulations, specifically, just like I can go into Laravel docs and look up the actual function call, right, for how to do something. It's more just about that you know what can be done and have that vision of everything going on. And then the actual details, and even the accounting now, I mean, the actual details, like, the computer's doing the details for you. Right?

So, like, so, yeah, you could kind of get the details, but it's just to have being aware of what's possible and that accounting and programming are a lot alike to me in that way. But

Aaron

The first the first screencasting series I ever did is teaching financial accounting to sophomores at Texas A&M. Oh, wow. It's like it's like a big tutoring Oh,

Ian

I think I saw that. You tweeted me a piece of that somewhere on point. Yeah.

Aaron

It's a big tutoring course that, like, goes through the syllabus and just teaches them everything they need to know about financial accounting and basically everything you need to know to do well in the class and pass your tests and everything. And I did that probably in 2016, and I just, like, set it up and recorded all these videos and put it behind, $39 pay wall. And over the years, like, I haven't really touched it. In fact, right now, it's free because there's a technical thing, and I was just like, I'm just gonna make it free. I can't figure it out right now.

Yeah. But it's made it's made over $100,000 in the past, like, 6 years total. So it doesn't even each year doesn't make a ton of money, but it's like, that is awesome. I did that thing one time and it, you know, continues to pay me.

Ian

It's the best.

It's the dream. It's the best.

Aaron

That's what I've been I've been chasing that high ever since.

Ian

See, that's where the the courses and things like that, you know, the the pure like, a SaaS is not exactly the same as that. Like, that's what everybody presents it as, but it's really not. Because there's just always stuff. Like, there's always a new some of the browsers change something. The server change something.

Customers want this new feature. AI shows up, and now you have to add features for it. Or this thing shows up. So there's always, like, people with demands and things going on. See, I always like the idea of a course even though I've never wanted to actually build one.

Because it's like, oh, I put it out there. It's like being a musician. Like, I do this song, and now I just get paid forever and ever by it. Like, I don't have to do anything else to it. It just exists, and I just keep making money.

And, yeah. So, obviously, the amount of money you can make with a course isn't as much as its software, but at the same time, there is something nice about that. There's something nice about the the the final done. Like, you completed it. Like, you're being done.

Yes.

Aaron

Yes. I

Ian

wanna complete something someday. I feel like I haven't completed anything in 20 years. Oh, yeah.

Aaron

You've been working for 18 years on the same thing. I guess that makes sense.

Ian

Still going.

Aaron

And you're still you're still you're still in the code. I'm watching I don't know if this is

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

I don't know what this is for, but I'm seeing you working on on Volt. So what are you doing? What are you getting your hands dirty with?

Ian

Yeah. Volt, I was playing with over the weekend here. This was on Lara Jobs, actually. Okay. So not quite 18 years old, but still Lara Jobs is actually 10 years old.

So, yeah. It's been around a while already. So

Aaron

I did not know it was that old. That's crazy.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. So we started that pretty early. It was, like, right after Taylor left User Escape. I think, like or maybe even before before just before he left User Escape, we did it.

And, yeah. So it's been around a while. But yeah. So I'm in the middle of rebuilding it. I have some cool stuff to share about that, actually, in a couple weeks probably.

But, but, yeah, rebuilding it, changing a few things about how it works, got some cool AI sprinkles in there, couple of little things. Yeah. So but, so, anyway, so Volt, I was like, alright. This is a perfect opportunity. I can use Volt.

And, oh, it's so nice. Like, I always love LiveWire in general, but, like, going between the files is always a little bit annoying, you know. Pitch.

Aaron

What what is what is Volt, first of all? And then give us your, like, what what you like about it.

Ian

I mean, I'm definitely no expert yet, but, it's alright. We're not a podcast.

We're experts about everything. You just say whatever you want.

Exactly. So, I mean, this it's single page Livewire files. Right? Like, that's the kind of core core idea here is that you got your Livewire logic, alongside your actual blade template all in one file. And so it's just one place to to deal with it, and it's great.

It's it's so nice. It's just, like, it's all right there. I actually thought they it supports both using the class based Livewire, kind of regular traditional Livewire classes. And then, you could also have this functional style, which I didn't think I'd necessarily go the functional style route, but then I did it 1st as class, and I was like, oh, I think this would actually be, like, cleaner for what I was doing in the functional style. So I switched to functional style, and it's awesome.

It's basically it's basically React, but in PHP. So there you go. It's, especially if you're using the functions style. It's like

Aaron

So yeah.

Ian

Yeah. Thank you. You said it.

It's basically React, and, it's great.

Aaron

I was gonna say it's basically Vue single file components.

Ian

Yeah. So it's similar to that.

Aaron

That's what it feels like to me. So we'll each have our we'll each have our own perspectives. I'm not gonna call I don't

Ian

know how

I would

Aaron

I would diminish it by calling it React.

Ian

Yeah. But Vue does does Vue have, like, I don't know. The way you, like, set the states in Vuell is, like, exactly like like React. I don't know if Vues is like that. It's been a long time since I did Vuell.

So I feel like it was a little different than that.

Aaron

So in in Vue, you have, like, the state function where you pass in, you know, the name and the initial state, whatever. Traditionally, in Vue with the options API, you wouldn't have, like, that functional kind of pattern. But in the what's the other one called? Options versus, like, component API, maybe? Whatever the opposite whatever the new Vue 3, API is, it is very much like that.

You have the script setup tag, and you have to declare certain variables like reactive and you pass in their initial state and that sort of thing Okay. Which I don't like. I like the options API where you can just say, here's my data. You do with it whatever you want. But me bashing React just for another day, keep telling me about Folds.

Ian

I'm not an expert. Not either. So who knows? But, but, yeah, I haven't and I haven't done Vue in a really long time, and I haven't used Vue 3 at all. So I don't know I don't know anything about the latest Vue stuff.

But but, yeah, the Volt's great. I mean, it's just, like, just for I haven't even used it, sort of I haven't done anything too complicated with it yet. I will be more so this week because I'm gonna do the part of Lara Jobs where, like, where you actually, like, create the job. So I haven't actually done that, like, form yet, and it, like, will show you, like, you know, as you're building it, like, the preview and stuff, which, I mean, it's not, like, rocket science here, but it's, like, you know, it's gonna be a little more using the reactivity and different things like that. But, but even, like, just for, like, like, I feel like it's just so much more logical even for, like, full page components.

I haven't really used the full page, like, LiveWire components much. I haven't used them that way. But with this, I'm like, oh, I'll just put it all together. That makes sense. And, like, like, I I just was able to do state and have some, like, database queries right in there and just, like, populate the, like, initial list of jobs and stuff.

And it's

just, like, boom. I don't need the controller and all that stuff for all for this, you know, super simple setup here. And LiveWire works great for it. And now with this, it's, like, all in one spot. So, yeah, it was just, like, really great.

There's this whole philosophical thing that I have a very big what I want.

Aaron

Yeah. Tell me.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. Let's do the philosophy. Yeah. So everybody go read the docs on Vault.

Like, Vault is great. Go check it out. But I feel like I have the chip on my shoulder because for me, forever so initial like, old school PHP is

Aaron

like Digging up.

Ian

Oh, I'm gonna dump you. Old school PHP, right, is just he like, literally, you'd have, like, a handful of files. And there'd be, like, a 1000000 functions in them. Right? You know, like, a function library.

Because it was all, like, based on c and things like that. You had a lot of coders coming from that, and, like, that's how things were done there. So it's, like, okay. I have, like, this function library, and it's got a 1,000,000 functions in it that do whatever. And so you had a lot of, like, a a single file that had a lot of logic in it.

And then, obviously, it went to, like, that's super bad. Everything has to be its own file. You could like, every every line has to be its own file. Right? And that all has to be separated.

Like, that's like where we were at one point.

Aaron

So mad.

Ian

It's true. That's where we were. And then and then now, then that's see, this is also getting out what I like about React. Because like React did with TypeScript, they're like, oh, you just put all the stuff in the one file. You got the got the includes and you got the you set the interface.

Just build it right there. And then, like, you know, make these function calls and do function calls for the state and get all the stuff and then hit, hey, let's just dump the template into some JavaScript here. Let's do that. Right? And so, like, it's all right in there.

And then this is what this is. Right? It's like, oh, you used to have these 2 files, but now we don't have 2 files. Now we have one file. And I'm like, yes.

One file. Give it to me, baby. Give me the one file.

Aaron

This has tremendous get off my lawn energy, just so you know.

Ian

Oh, it's so good. I love it. It's just like

Aaron

telling you kids.

Ian

This is what

Aaron

they were supposed to do.

Ian

It just everything just comes back around. It's like, oh, if you just wait long this is like I have this whole other business philosophy, but, like, just outlasting people in all sorts of worlds is a totally effective strategy. And it's, like, that's what we're seeing here. It's, like, oh, just keep waiting. And then eventually, people will come back around to, like, the obvious way to do it, which was, like, the things that go together should just be in one file.

And then, like, there we go. We're here. And it's so nice. I love it.

Aaron

Yep. Oh, man. I'm glad you got I'm glad you got that off your chest. I love that. I'm good.

I'm good. For.

Ian

Yeah. I I want the takes.

Aaron

That's that's

Ian

what I'm here for.

That's a hot take for you.

Aaron

That is a hot take. I love I love that energy. Yeah. I mean, I I get it. When I saw I think it was React server components.

It was like, oh, you write your server stuff and your client stuff all in this one file, and I, you know, had a visceral reaction to it. Right. And then I saw and then I saw Volt, and I was like, oh, yeah. This is pretty good. I like this.

This is very nice. Well well done. Well done, us.

Ian

Good job. Yeah. Good job, Laravel.

It's I mean, it's unfortunate, like, PHP can't support like, you have the closing tag in there, which is, like, a little bit annoying. Right? But, I don't think there's really much they could do about that. But, but, anyway, yeah, it's still, yeah. I really like it.

I don't know. You said you haven't used it yet. Right? No. No.

I haven't.

Aaron

Yeah. I've never built anything big or even medium with LiveWire. I built a I built a planet scale demo a while back with LiveWire 2, but it was just like a one pager kinda thing with some some live updates and some interactivity. And that, like, that part was was wonderful. The you know, just fire up PHP and you have live updating and stuff, and there's no I I I don't think in that one, I had any NPM install whatsoever, which was awesome.

Yep. But, yeah, I've never built a a full on proper LiveWire application yet.

Ian

Yeah. It's so good for those things. Like, that use case, though, it's just, like, where you wanna make something, like, raise the bar on a simple little app or whatever without, like, getting into view or react and fit building that whole stack out and the inevitable weirdness that will happen or whatever. It's just, like, nope. I can just stay in PHP land, but things will still magically react and be fast and all those things that, you know, people want nowadays.

Yeah. It's super we've done a bunch of stuff with it for especially stuff like that where it's small apps. I just I always use it. And then, like, our store system, for HelpSpot uses a lot of LiveWire and, yeah. So Lara Jobs uses LiveWire.

Aaron

Lara Jobs uses LiveWire already?

Ian

Yeah. Mhmm. In some parts. It's more, like, sprinkled in. The new one, it'll be, like, LiveWire everywhere.

The, current one, it's, like, where you the form where you create a job is Livewire, and there's, like, a few other, little things that that have slide maybe, like, the there's, like, a consultant's area that, like, has filtering and stuff. I'm pretty sure that's Livewire. So, yeah, it's really really so so nice. Just it is. There's a lot of magic going on, which is Mhmm.

Is you're like, woah. How is this even doing this?

Aaron

Is it do you do you know is it tech like underneath the hood, is it hooking into, like, the blade compile time and it's, like, making proper LiveWire classes and just kinda like so it's it's syntactic sugar. Do you have any idea?

Ian

No. I think it's more than that. It's not just sugar, but I don't know how it is hooking into everywhere, and it's definitely using a lot of, like, internal to Laravel, things that normal people shouldn't touch. Right. But, you know, Caleb's, you know, works with Taylor on it.

So I think it's, you know, he's not doing any using it. It's not gonna just break if Taylor changes something because Taylor's in the loop on what's going on. But, but, yeah, there's a lot of magic in how it, like, then go, you know, aggregates things to go back over over the wire, and it manages the state across the wire and all that stuff. So there definitely is re rehydrating stuff on the other end. So yeah.

There's also a lot of crazy magic where it, like, stores. I don't know how it does this. Like

Aaron

Yeah. LiveWire in general. Yeah. Stores all that

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Serialized stuff on the front.

Ian

And even just your, middleware, like, whatever the middleware the route serve, like, it serves the LiveWire over that same middleware and stuff. Like, there's a lot of lot of stuff. But, yeah, I don't know even with VoLte. Yeah. I don't know if they're breaking it up along the way somewhere and, like, caching the broken up files or if they're, like, executing them together.

I have no idea how that would work. I assume that there's some step where it, like, pulls the blade out and then

Aaron

I would think it

Ian

renders it. Right? But

Aaron

Yeah. Because when blade like, when they when they take blade and turn it into, like, your proper views and stuff, they compile it all and they get rid of all the ad diff and turn it into PHP statements. I imagine at that point, that's where

Ian

piles down.

Aaron

Folks hooks in and they, like, they do something that turns it into I would guess it would turn it into, like, traditional LiveWire. And so I don't know.

Ian

I guess. I don't know.

Aaron

It's very it's very cool and it's very good. And I'm hoping it gets some of the, some of the Laravel curious people to move over because it does feel very familiar. Like you were saying, it feels very familiar to a React or a Vue, app where you set up on file.

Ian

If you do everything as full page components too, it's like you don't even have to deal with, like there's, like, less of the Laravel other parts in some ways. Like, it's just, like, whatever. I just, like, route vault this thing or I think that's what it is, vault route route vault, whatever it is. And then, you know, just pass in the components. You can pretty much stay, like, in Livewire land, for the most part.

But, you know, that's something I was thinking about the other day that you just brought up that I haven't I just don't ever have time to do this, but I would love to. Like, just source dive into, like, some of these things, like Live Wire or even Laravel, like, and dig around and see how stuff works. Like, I just never have time to do that. But, I don't know. Have you done a lot of that?

Like, digging around the actual source?

Aaron

Freaking blast. Yes. Yeah. So I I've the the deepest I've dug around is, obviously, Eloquent and the base builder. I've dug super far into that for a couple of different things.

One was, before I worked at PlanetScale, I wrote a, single store driver for Laravel. And so I had to dig in to figure out how do I write how do I write a database driver, and how do I, like, how do I compile, you know, eloquent down to the right syntax that single store expects?

Ian

Mhmm.

Aaron

And as you would as you would imagine, it's it's just elegant all the way through. And it's just so good. And that was a ton of fun, trying to figure out, like, what are I think the fun part for me about programming is when you get super off the beaten path like this. And, like, the docs aren't gonna help you here. Like, this is not this is not documented.

And so you're, like, you're just command clicking all the way down to, like, figure out where does this call this and what happens here and trying to figure out where do I hook in that I can do the least amount of work possible. And so I can just, like, inject my stuff at the right point and I don't have to reinvent, like, I don't have to reinvent the whole wheel.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

So that was fun for the single store driver. And then for the deepest I dug into the rendering engine was when I was writing all the torchlight adapters, which is syntax highlighting. And so at that point, I'm hooking into the blade compile time and

Ian

trying to

Aaron

in, like, injecting placeholders at at one part of the compile time and then looking for those placeholders at the last part of the compile, and it's like, that was really fun.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

So, yeah, if you if you ever have a reason to source dive, do it because it's all great. It looks amazing down there.

Ian

It's beautiful there under the water.

Aaron

Yeah. And it's so like, there are an unbelievable amount of, hooks that you can, like, you can get your claws in and do all kinds of, all kinds of fun stuff. And that's what speaking of rants, that's that's one thing I don't understand. I'll look at I'll look on Twitter on, like, the Laracasts forums and people are like, how you know, how do you do this? It's not in the documentation.

I'm like, go look.

Ian

Just just go look

Aaron

and see what's down there.

Ian

Alright. There's comments on everything.

Aaron

There's comments on everything. You can just go look. Like, you have all of the source available. Just go look and see what happens. The worst questions the worst questions are, like, what happens if you pass this to this?

I'm, like, just try it.

Ian

I don't know. You figure it out.

Aaron

So I I think part of it is being self taught. That's how I had to learn everything, was just go look. And it's such a it's so fun for me to to go down there and look around.

Ian

Yeah. It is fun. I mean, just with with Vol, I found something. I, tweeted about it too, which is, like, in the docs, when you call state, it just all the examples are passes an array of Mhmm. Of, variables.

And I was like, I kinda hate the array of variables. Like, it's just annoying. Like, it's not very React, like, I wanna just pay I wanna call state a bunch of times. Yeah. So, I looked in there, I sort of dove actually in that case.

I was like, oh, yeah. This looks like I can do that. And then I did it and it worked. And it was all magical. And it's like, ah, look it.

Aaron

Don't you feel so empowered?

Ian

Don't you

feel amazing?

I I did feel amazing. And then, of course, Taylor's like, you know, I did that on purpose. I'm like, oh, I know you did.

Of course

Aaron

you did. I

Ian

saw these things.

Aaron

Yeah. The the array hate the array. So did you did you pass in a named argument or did you pass in a string comma and then the value?

Ian

String comma.

Aaron

Okay.

Ian

Yeah. Okay. I thought I saw on

Aaron

I thought I saw on stage, and I think it's later been confirmed. But like I said, I haven't played with it. I think you can pass in a named argument. Ain't that wild? I know.

Ian

Yeah. Well, I I always forget about named arguments because, like,

Aaron

it's just such a

Ian

I've been waiting literally over 20 years for named arguments and, like, with, you know, especially, again an older style code, you have like a function and it has like 7 things being passed into it. Yeah. And it's like, boy, I wish I could just have a named argument instead of all these nulls or whatever. But, so I don't know. It doesn't so one of those things has not, like, stuck in my brain from

Me either.

Modern PHP, but Yeah.

Aaron

Me either.

Ian

As soon as we get off, I'm going to TriNet because that's gonna

Aaron

be amazing. Pass in, you know, Foo colon and then the value to see to see if that works. I think it does. That's That sounds

Ian

like my

Aaron

understanding. Yeah.

Ian

Oh, man. Yeah. That sounds like a good thing Taylor would would have, yeah. That's the magic that that they wanna have there. Then you have that's see, that should be in the docs because that's, like, that's, like, magical wonderfulness right there.

Aaron

Well, okay. So here's the deal. Because it's not in the docs, you get to have a great tweet about it. That's that's the

Ian

benefit. That's true. That's better. That's better.

Aaron

Yeah. That's better. Yeah.

Ian

That's better.

That's better for us. That's all that matters. My my tweet becomes the, definitive documentation on it. Yeah. I like that.

Aaron

Here's here's how here's here's how it's gonna go down. You're gonna we're gonna get off this call. You're gonna see that it works. You're gonna put out a banger tweet, and then somebody else will open a PR to the docs. I'm like, everybody's happy.

Ian

Yeah. Do the tweet first.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

I know docs is, like, Taylor's so good at the docs. It's, like, am I gonna how can I improve Taylor's docs? Yeah. Exactly. It feels impossible.

I can't

Aaron

I'll just tweet about it and

Ian

I'll I'll let I'll

let him notice that he's not in the docs. Yeah.

Yeah. But, yeah. That's kinda one of those weird things too where, like, you wouldn't have, like, a section of the docs for it, probably. But it's, like, maybe it should just be sprinkled through different examples. But then if you do the examples differently Yep.

Maybe that's confusing. Like Yep. So maybe having it always be the same is better. It's, like, it is kind of a weird thing in that way. But, yeah, I don't know.

I'm excited about my tweet for it. I'll tell you that if it works.

Aaron

I'm excited to see

Ian

it. Yeah.

Aaron

I can't wait. I'll see how you workshop this. See what code screenshot tool you use and

Ian

spend the rest of the afternoon. I yeah. Code so I'm not big on the I I I should do this one. I'll do it right. I'll do code screenshot.

Mhmm. Now what do you use for your cone code screenshots?

Aaron

I show code dot app.

Ian

Show code. Okay.

Aaron

And that is built by, fellow community member, I think Steve Oh. Baumann is his name. I think that's right.

Ian

Put that up so I have it. Okay.

Aaron

But it's very good. Yeah. All kinds of

Ian

It's all fancy.

Aaron

It is. All kinds of languages and themes and backgrounds and yeah. It's a full it's a full on app. It's very, very good.

Ian

Show code dot the app. Go check that out, everybody. That's,

Aaron

that's

Ian

awesome. I have not seen that before. That's really great. Yeah. Because I'm always like, I knew there had to be some awesome tool because

Aaron

I'm like,

Ian

well, everybody's not doing this if it takes any work at all. So but it was gotta be some awesome tool to do it, and there it is. Yeah. Oh, and now now I'm even more excited. This will be my first, first really nicely styled code tweet here.

Aaron

This is gonna be great. Filo's gonna retweet it. Caleb's gonna retweet it. It's gonna go great. I'm calling it.

I'm viral

Ian

with this. This is gonna

Aaron

be a good one.

Ian

You're gonna get credit. You're the one who told me about it.

Aaron

Hey. Well, you're the one that tweets it and the to the Tweeter go to spoils. You know? So

Ian

That is true. That is the honor code. Yeah. Honor code of Twitter.

Aaron

I could I could scoop you, but now that it's on now that it's on record as you're gonna tweet it, I'm not gonna scoop you. So also, we still don't even know if it's true. I think it's

Ian

true. It's true. It's gonna be such a bummer. Our first thought somebody we got, like, 10 follow-up emails. Be like, you can't actually do that, you know.

Aaron

I I tried to do this and it doesn't work.

Ian

Well, yeah. I have

Aaron

no idea if it works.

Ian

So it should work. If it's possible for it to work, maybe we I will have to do a PR to make it work.

Aaron

Oh, yeah.

Ian

We'll do actual

Aaron

So what just turned in it was a 30 minute tweet session. Now it turns into, like, a 2 and a half day racking session so that you can make a PR. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. Exactly. See, this is why

Aaron

you're doing it. I absolve myself from

Ian

all of this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm just

Aaron

an ideas guy. I don't do anything. I just have ideas.

Ian

So good. I love ideas, guys. It's my favorite.

Aaron

I would love to be just an ideas guy. That would

Ian

be awesome. Someday. It's a dream.

Aaron

Someday. That is the dream. Right? I would love that.

Ian

Maybe boring. I don't know.

Aaron

I don't know. Just sitting around, having ideas, and letting other people do all the hard work sounds pretty pretty awesome to me. Yeah. But we'll see. So next week next week, I'm, I'm headed back to Texas.

Ian

Oh, okay.

Aaron

Yeah. When are

Ian

you heading back?

Aaron

We're heading back on, so wife and kids fly out Saturday, and I'll start the the long drive home on Sunday.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

So we were supposed to be here another 2 weeks. Oh. So we've been here this is this is now our 4th week in Vermont, and, we're gonna do another 2 weeks. But we were going to change Airbnbs and go to like a different town. We were gonna go to Redding or Reading.

I don't know how to say it. Down by like Woodstock. And it's it's even more remote than where we are right now. And we just decided, like, you know, it's too much. It is it's too much with with 22 year olds to have no sports system.

And so, like, we gave it the old college try,

Ian

and we were super proud

Aaron

of us for, like, hey. We've got 2 year olds. Let's leave everything we know for 4 weeks. And so we just decided we're gonna cancel the next Airbnb, and we're gonna come on home. So yeah.

A little a little like, I feel really good about it. I feel like, oh, this is I'm excited to go home. Like, I'm excited to go home. Have, like, my my house, my bed, my office, and the kids have they've got YMCA. They've got little gym.

Ian

They've got swim lessons.

Aaron

They've got grandparents. They've got cousins.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Okay. So the whole the whole support system thing is pretty real when you have kids. Yeah.

Ian

For sure. For sure. Yeah. We yeah. A lot of these things are even vacationing in general, like, here with the kids and go on vacation, it's gonna be awesome.

And it is, like, awesome at times, but there's, like I mean, never forget we had one. So most years we go to, Martha's Vineyard over the summer at some point, just for usually 1 to 2 weeks. This year, we didn't, but usually we do. And this was, like, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. No.

At least maybe 7 or 8 years ago. My daughter, who's the youngest, was, like, right in your age, like, 2, 3, somewhere in there. She was, like, maybe just a little over 2, and she had just potty trained to or maybe she's 2a half, whatever. And we go on vacation. We're in Martha's Vineyards.

It's all beautiful, beaches, whatever, blah blah blah. She decides she's not gonna go to the bathroom anymore. Oh. She doesn't want to. Oh.

She doesn't like how it feels, and she's not doing it. So she's forcibly preventing herself from going to the bathroom. She's has stomach pain, obviously, because she's refusing to go to the bathroom. And so we just spent this whole vacation with this kid who's refusing to go to the bathroom. And it's just like, oh my god.

Like, this is not the relaxing, fairly expensive Martha's Vineyard vacation that, like, I was looking for here. So yeah.

Aaron

Kids, man.

Ian

Sometimes it's just you just be home. You have all your stuff. At least if they're doing weird stuff, like, everything else is normal. It's like yeah. That was an exciting vacation.

That one.

Aaron

Yeah. That's that's a good one. That makes me feel better.

Ian

Yeah. It really does. Go home. Kinda help us.

Aaron

We're going

Ian

home. We're going home.

Aaron

We actually thought we we thought about potty training here, and then we decided, like

Ian

Yeah. I would wait on that. Yeah. No. The change of scenery causes weird things to happen.

Like, people just you you don't want them to get home and decide they don't wanna go to the bathroom. Like, you wanna

Aaron

be We'll train them on home home turf and let it let's

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Let it settle there. Yeah.

Ian

Exactly. That is a big moment, though. So good luck with that. Because if you can get that done, that's, especially with the other ones coming, it'll be nice to not have 4, that you're changing. That that sounds Yeah.

That would be nice. Nightmare status there. So

Aaron

It'd be nice to have just a little break of no diapers that were changing before the month's.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. That'll be really nice. No diapers. That's a big moment.

Yeah. Diaper diapers are crazy. So expensive, and the whole thing looks expensive. Whole thing. Yeah.

Aaron

It's a scam.

Ian

Alright. So I guess we'll figure out what we're gonna we'll record in at some point. May have to give it maybe a little day or 2 after, but

Aaron

no problem. 27 hours to get home. So It's a big drive. Drive most of Sunday and Alright. Well, y'all send us send us some emails, and, we'll talk to you next time.

Ian

Alright. Later.

Aaron

See you.