Laravel's Big Day

Ian

Hello?

Aaron

Revenge of the gallbladder, Ian. I thought I thought we solved this problem. What is going on over here?

Ian

A little bit too big of a meal. A little

Aaron

bit too little bit

Ian

of a meal. A little bit of a little bit of a little bit of

Aaron

a little bit of a little bit of a little too hard.

Ian

Next day, it was a little not optimal, optimal, so still dialing in the gallbladder stuff a little bit. I had this medicine

Aaron

that helped. See that. Yeah.

Ian

Keep your gallbladder, people.

Aaron

Keep your gallbladder. That's one thing I've always said is if you have organs and you can keep them, it's just better. You know? It's just better to keep them.

Ian

There's also this said a lot of people think the gallbladder doesn't really do much, but it does stuff. It's important.

Aaron

It does stuff. It does stuff. Work it now. And, you know, regardless of your origin myth, the gallbladder is there for a reason. The gallbladder was was put there by something or someone for some reason, and you went and you just took it out.

Ian

Maybe. I mean, the appendix supposedly literally does nothing, but I don't know. I don't know if I buy that either.

Aaron

Seems fishy. Right?

Ian

Yeah. I still have that, though. I wanted them to take that out while they were in there, but they don't

Aaron

Just get, like, a, like, a discount? Like, a useless stuff out. Kinda amortize the cost of opening you up by taking out another organ.

Ian

Well, Well, because you can have that go at any time. Right? And then, like, oh, shit. I'm going back in to do literally the same exact surgery I just did if that happened. I don't wanna

Aaron

It's it's shocking to me the doctors didn't go for that. You know? They weren't like, oh, that's a good idea, bud. I like that. Let's add

Ian

let's add a whole another level of steak.

Aaron

A doctor? Because that's a very clever suggestion, sir.

Ian

I play one on a podcast. I got a LLM backing me. Good.

Aaron

Were you celebrating anything on on Sunday night, or you just were like, I want some steak?

Ian

Nah. I just did, like, a big chicken parm situation, but I just had, like, a big lunch too, and it's just too much. Well

Aaron

Well, you know, you hate to hear that. You're you're falling apart, Ian.

Ian

I know.

Aaron

You got the wrist thing. You got the gallbladder thing.

Ian

The wrist thing the wrist thing is kind of back a little bit. No.

Aaron

I don't I can't. I can't.

Ian

But now back a little bit. Not as bad as it was.

Aaron

Please don't ever say drained again. I can't do that. Let's

Ian

talk bad.

Aaron

Let's talk about something else.

Ian

Don't get old.

Aaron

So bad. I've tried

Ian

that too.

Aaron

I'm trying young. Oh, jeez. Well, on my side, I I had a better you know, we missed we missed Monday, Tuesday. It's now Wednesday. But I had a good Wednesday morning.

Let me tell you. I Pretty good. Just went to breakfast with an Internet friend.

Ian

Woah. That's always fun when you can find an Internet friend in

Aaron

the big

Ian

world to I know.

Aaron

For when available. I know. So somebody reached out to somebody reached out to me on Twitter. His name is Artem. Let me get his last name, just to make sure I get it right.

His name is Artem Banda. Artem Banda reached out to me on Twitter. It was like, hey. Live in the area, doing kinda the same thing, doing courses and stuff, independent man about town. And you wanna grab breakfast?

And I was like, yes. Definitely. And then three months passed because, you know, I've got I've got four kids and yeah. And so I finally got back to him again and was like, alright. Let's do it.

And we just had breakfast, and it was great.

Ian

Your regular spot or different different spot?

Aaron

Actually, a spot I've never been to.

Ian

Yeah. Interesting.

Aaron

Very, very this is truly a very suburb y spot. It's called First Watch, and it's like this giant cavern of table and, like, very normal breakfast foods. It's like Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Basically, an empty warehouse where they serve just slightly above average breakfast foods. Is that a chain? Oh, yeah.

Ian

Yeah. Okay. I think I saw something about one of these in Vegas or something like that. Probably.

Aaron

That checks out.

Ian

Yeah. I've never been there.

Aaron

Yeah. So it was great. Lot of fun. Very cool. Yeah.

Meet meet your Internet friends, people.

Ian

I love meeting the Internet friends. How was Aaron Francis's day off?

Aaron

Oh, man. It it was great. It was great. No principals tried to track me down. I you know, it was just the best day ever.

So

Ian

Nice.

Aaron

Let's see. That was,

Ian

Last Monday or

Aaron

Last Monday. Yeah. I left I left the show to go to the hotel.

Ian

You ran off the stage and

Aaron

I did. That was freaking awesome. So I went down there.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

I sent you as as requested. I sent you a picture of a big old steak. Yeah. So I did it upright. Yeah.

So I went down there, probably around noon. I was able to get an early check-in. Pro tip, always call on the day before and just say, hey. I know you can't guarantee anything. I I was just wondering, can you write my name down?

You know? And it goes a long way. And so I got there, and they're like, your room's ready. Yeah. We we wrote your name down.

We got you an early check-in.

Ian

You know what I love, if I could interject that early check-in for a bit, is, this is one of the great things about casinos. There's a lot of good things about casinos. One of the great things is often they will just, like, let you buy these things, and I just love that. That. Like, here's $50.

Aaron

Pure markets, those casinos, aren't they?

Ian

Yeah. Exactly. I just have an early check-in. It's $50. Or, like, I could pay $50 and have a late checkout.

Right? Like, that's great. Like, it's like you don't have to guess. Right? It's like, I can just acquire this, and it's just mine.

So good.

Aaron

And you're you're using funny money. You're like, yeah. Two two chips for an early check-in? What the hell? That's not real money.

Ian

And often, it's a write off on top of that. Like, when It's

Aaron

not a write off.

Ian

If I'm in Vegas for a reason that's business y, it is a write

Aaron

off. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That is a write off. Yeah. I was gonna say, I'm all on the write off train, but gambling is not a write off.

Ian

But, yes. That's a gambling.

Aaron

Being in Vegas for a business trip is a write off. I will concede. Good point.

Ian

If I'm there for business, quote, un unquote, and then I have to sleep somewhere, right, then I can write that off, and I can also gamble. So it all makes sense.

Aaron

And there are no IRS agents anymore, so

Ian

you can do whatever the hell you want. You can do anything. You can do anything. You can do anything you want. Anybody who's following their taxes is an idiot.

Don't file your taxes.

Aaron

Don't file your taxes. Advice. This is financial advice. You know, there's no FCC anymore either, so nobody's gonna, like you know, there's nobody to

Ian

report us to. There's nothing. Thing. Yeah.

Aaron

It's great.

Ian

It's a

Aaron

brave world. Alright. That was close to politics. We got

Ian

that was terrible. Man. Oh, that's the farthest you've ever gone. Oh. We can put this into a politics podcast now.

Aaron

Hell no. We can do a bit. I love a bit, but I'm not I'm not doing anything serious.

Ian

Not getting your opinion?

Aaron

No. You're not getting my opinion. No. That was a bit. It was hysterical.

The people loved it. You went

Ian

a little political on Twitter. I'm not I I don't follow No. No. No.

Aaron

What did I say? No. I didn't. Political. No.

I didn't. What did I say?

Ian

Political. You got a tweet about, how the Algo on x is feeding you all this murder stuff.

Aaron

Well, Ian, you know what's funny about that?

Ian

Yeah. That was actually

Aaron

a screenshot of CNN.com/US. Okay.

Ian

Well, whichever whatever it was.

Aaron

So it wasn't it wasn't,

Ian

it was definitely the, I thought you said it was the trending or something. But, obviously, I'm wrong. You're saying it was CNN. So

Aaron

No. I had a tweet at some point that was like, you want me to get all my news from x.com, the site where anime users argue about JavaScript? That was

Ian

That's a different thing. Yeah. That's a

Aaron

great bet. The screenshot I had that said, what the hell are we doing was I was like, okay. I've muted I've muted the entire world out of my Twitter feed, and I love being here. It's wonderful. Right.

Let's just go see what's happening in the world. Like, maybe, like, just to, like, see what's going on, be an informed citizen, whatever that means. And I went to CNN.com, and the homepage was like, oh, that's terrible.

Ian

That's good.

Aaron

Okay. I don't I don't need to read all that. Let me click on US. And I clicked on US.

Ian

Wow. That's gonna be worse. Of course.

Aaron

Oh, it's worse. We're the worst place ever.

Ian

Go on.

Aaron

It's terrible.

Ian

Don't do that.

Aaron

That was in Europe. They only murder in The US, apparently. So I clicked on I clicked on US, and it was like that that was the screenshot. It was, like, nine of 10 stories were about murder, and one was about the iPhone. I was like, what the hell

Ian

Or what's doing me off is because you're trying to hear

Aaron

me hear

Ian

mute words, and I was like, oh, man. They got past as mute words. But, honestly, it's just a different a different I sought it out.

Aaron

I sought it out. This is I was hosted by my own petard as is the the motto of the show. And I instantly regretted it and closed it and haven't been back. So if something happens in the world, I trust that you will tell me about it because you're you're up on it.

Ian

I'll let you know. If you if I'm, like, it's time to get in the bunker, then Yeah. You know.

Aaron

You just text me and be like, you should go, and I'll go. Go.

Ian

Go down into that garage you built. Yeah. The big garage and basement. Get down there. Yeah.

But the, oh, man. What is this? Oh, like, you it might be good for you. It's something more like the BBC.

Aaron

Oh, yeah. You know, they're

Ian

a little more on the straight in there. It's like a real news organization.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

And, they have rules and things. So they don't go quite as far into, like, just every random murder. And obviously they're, like, not even US entirely focused. Like, we do do have a heavy US operation. So that'll give you, like, the big picture, like, the big important things more, I think.

And also from the outside perspective, which is always nice. And then less of the, like, you know, every little

Aaron

Imaginations. In this huge

Ian

You know

Aaron

what I actually want? And this might exist, but if it doesn't, someone should make it, and you would make many tens of dollars. So Yeah. It's it's a very good idea. I want, something that is basically last week's news.

That's what I want. Or or maybe even last month's news.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

But, importantly, I want it written from the point of view of today.

Ian

Yes. I see where you're going with this. Yes.

Aaron

Because if you give me last month's news from the lens of today, it filters out, like, all of the the micro movements and the stuff that doesn't matter.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

And I think very little would make it through. I mean, if you read a news we're doing a news segment now. If you read a newspaper from a year ago and you look at it about all the stuff that people were freaking out about and then All boring old news. Filter it through, like, things that actually happened, you're like, boy, none of that actually came to fruition or that was all overblown. True.

I think. No. That's totally true.

Ian

Exactly. That's totally true. I think that you're actually making a totally

Aaron

making a way

Ian

if it's funny. But You read it.

Aaron

You pick up a newspaper from 02/26/2024, and you read about all of the all of the micro outrages or, like, the micro terrifying things.

Ian

Sure.

Aaron

And it's like, boy, that just seems that just seems pointless now, doesn't it? To say nothing of, like, five years ago.

Ian

I think these are two different things kind of, though, because there's, like, things that are micro. Right? Like,

Aaron

in

Ian

Duluth, some guy was shot in his car. Right? Like, this is, like, the little micro thing. I don't even live in Duluth. Why am I being laid down by murder in Duluth?

Like I

Aaron

I don't even know what Duluth is, if I'll be honest with you. Exactly. It's an m it's an m state. Michigan, Minnesota, Montana. Minnesota.

Minnesota. Yeah. I hope so.

Ian

I'm pretty sure. But then you have, like, bigger picture things, like right? Like, people were worried about who's gonna be president, and then somebody became president, and then there might be connections there what happened a year ago. Right? So, like but for your service idea, I think that I like it in the sense of, like, a, it shouldn't include the micro stuff at all.

Right? This is big picture, big things, national news, that type of thing. Right? And then to me, the interesting idea where I thought you were more going is, like, by giving yourself a week or whatever amount of time, then there could be, like, actual perspective. Yes.

And, like That's right. Even results. Right? Like, oh, this was the news. Here's what actually happened.

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

And then maybe some analysis or whatever. Or if it hasn't actually happened yet, but it's like, whatever. Now we know more

Aaron

and That's the other thing.

Ian

And stuff like that.

Aaron

Is a lot of the breaking news is like, this may or may not happen. And I'm like, then don't tell me about it till it does. Like, what am I gonna do about it if it may or may not happen? I just wanna know. Here's what happened.

Here's why we think it's important, and that's it. Actually, I don't even wanna know that, but that's still a good idea. That's a great idea. You could you could do you could build a business like that for a really long time and make no money whatsoever.

Ian

That was a lot of effort for more. Any more. Let me let me sit you down in nineties corner. In the nineties, we had things called investigative journalism. Oh, wow.

Basically what they did. We're, like, they didn't just cover the thing that was happening today.

Aaron

I know.

Ian

They went into the trenches and spent months often, like, talking to people and getting facts and doing something

Aaron

Pretending pretending to be somebody.

Ian

Right. And then they would be the story. Yes. Undercover.

Aaron

I know. That's amazing.

Ian

So it was basically what we're describing. We're reinventing investigative journalists.

Aaron

I know. I know. I have Do you

Ian

I have I have paid recently for a few things that are doing more of that in support of the

Aaron

Oh, that's cool.

Ian

Like, the four zero four media and You're a real you're

Aaron

a real patron of the arts. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. This is one of the things you can do is to, like, subscribe to things that are doing real journalism. So that's what I

Aaron

Including last week's news.com written by Aaron Francis and an army of LLMs.

Ian

Subscribe to that. If you wanna put in the time, you got plenty of time. Why don't you have last week's news?

Aaron

Definitely don't have time to focus on the news.

Ian

Good word.

Aaron

Of all of all things I don't have time for, it's to create a news website for goodness sakes. Here is here's a blast from the nineties news past. If you came to this podcast expecting Aaron's big day off, you can get

Ian

back to it.

Aaron

Yeah. You're in for a treat because we're going down news corner. Do you remember Peter Jennings?

Ian

I was watching Peter Jennings during the attacks on nine eleven. That was my daughter. Love Peter Jennings, And I was grew up. Streaming stranger stream. Yes.

09/11/2001. I'm on the scraggly stream.

Aaron

And he for the first for the first time in a long in a after a long time, he smoked a cigarette because he was so like, yeah. He was a big smoker, died of lung cancer. Big smoker stopped and had this huge abstinence of smoking. And then September 11 happened, and he it broke him, and he started smoking. Realize that.

Yep. I grew up on Peter Jennings. Peter Jennings was, like, a trusted voice in our household.

Ian

Surprised you're old enough to remember Peter Jennings.

Aaron

Oh, yeah. We, my parents, because of their generation, had the news on every single night.

Ian

Got the

Aaron

house news. Local news and then world news. World news tonight with Peter Jennings. It's twice. And to tie it back to a catchphrase, you can just do things.

You know what I did? What? You know what I did? There's a

Ian

fan site.

Aaron

Peter Jennings fan site. There's a, CNN anchor named Jake Tapper that, I watched I watched a lot more news in, like, 2016, '20 '15, something like that. And I got, Peter Jennings vibes from Jake Tapper. I was like, like, you seem you seem right down the middle. You seem to, like, hold both sides to account.

You seem very trustworthy, Jake Tapper. And so I sent an email to all of the email addresses I could think of that would possibly be Jake Tapper's email. Interesting. And sent an email that just was like, Peter Jennings, I think, was the the the subject line. Mhmm.

Sent it to, like, you know, jake.tapper@turnermedia. Jake dot tapper at c n n. Sent it to all of these email addresses. Jake Tapper responded. Woah.

He responded and said something like, I wonder if I have it. I certainly have it. I'd Gmail. Why would I not have

Ian

it? I love this real

Aaron

time. Tapper

Ian

We're doing it.

Aaron

Here we go. You got it. Tapper comma Jake from Jake Tapper.

Ian

This is 26 year old Aaron Francis.

Aaron

Uh-huh. This is Right now Jake. July twenty eighth of twenty sixteen. The subject line is, Peter Jennings, and I sent it to jake.tapper@turner.com and jaketapper@cnn. I got a couple I got one, mail delivery subsystem failure.

So, obviously, one of them didn't work. And I just said, hey. I you know, when I was growing up, Peter Jennings was always on. I can't help but be reminded of Peter Jennings when I watch you. You're crushing or, like, you're holding both sides to account.

Keep it up. You're doing a great job. And he responded and said, this made my week. Thank you so much. Four exclamation points sent from my sent from my iPhone.

Wow. I got a freaking response from from Jake Tapper. That's so cool.

Ian

You can just do things. You've been just doing big dickheads.

Aaron

And I emailed, you want another one? Let's do another one.

Ian

Mark Go through Aaron's email on this.

Aaron

She wouldn't.

Ian

Let's put a podcast in that. We're gonna go

Aaron

through something. I've been reading emails out on the radio. Yeah. This is great. I emailed Mark Cuban.

And Oh. Yeah. So this is he's somehow mcuban@gmail.com.

Ian

Are you doing are you going with the, entrepreneur angle? Are you going to basketball angle?

Aaron

So I used to have a solo podcast. I used to have a solo podcast where I would read articles and then basically, like, offer my commentary on them. So 05/18/2015. Just cold email. Just send it to two email addresses again because I didn't know

Ian

hacker this guy is.

Aaron

You're in

Ian

the wrong career.

Aaron

I'm a social engineer. I'm a social engineer. So I sent, hey, Mark. I was wondering if I could have your permission to read your post, the title of the post, on a podcast I'm starting on the show. This is hysterical.

On the show, I read important articles and talk about why I like them. Parentheses, complicated concept. Can I have your permission? And he responded, he responded five minutes later. Five minutes

Ian

like that kind of guy. He's just like he's on his email all the time. He's reading the email.

Aaron

He said, sure. No problem.

Ian

That was

Aaron

it. And I I responded,

Ian

thanks, Mark. Two things.

Aaron

Like, we're buds.

Ian

I can't wait for you to publish a book of all these.

Aaron

Like, it's like a

Ian

book of your emails where you reach out to people randomly, and then they respond, you know, affirmatively. And it's just like an affirmation book of, like, all these things you just tried to do and that they just happened because you asked.

Aaron

Crazy. Yeah.

Ian

Just had this conversation last night with my 14 year old. He's in this basketball camp thing, and the the the coach said that or, you know, the other trainer was like, I might have a spot on team for you in the summer. Like last week he said that. So we're like, all right, this week you didn't get his info. You didn't get any details.

You gotta get his info and his details. Right?

Aaron

Yep.

Ian

So he comes out after I pick him up. Of course he, he hasn't gotten the info. So I'm like, you should go back in. Right? So he he got he mans up.

He goes back in. Gets the details. Right? And on the way home, this is the I I literally had this exact conversation. I was like, listen.

Like, being brave and putting yourself out there is how people are successful. There's always smarter people.

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

There's always people better than you at every single job. You're never gonna be the best at anything. I'm not I haven't been the best at anything ever. But sometimes in key moments, you just have to be brave Yep. And take the bull by the horns.

And those are the people who get the the rewards because you took the chance when other peep the thing that actually gonna separate you is taking a chance when everybody else who's better than you is too scared to take the chance. Like, that is how you

Aaron

agency, not intelligence that matters. So You have just

Ian

whole conversation.

Aaron

I've told you I'm writing a book. That is the premise. That's the premise. Oh, shit. Whole premise right there.

That is it.

Ian

Of course. It makes perfect sense to me now.

Aaron

The synopsis. That's the book. Yeah. That's right. That's good dad advice.

That's dad dad, not business dad. That's

Ian

Dad dad. Yeah.

Aaron

That's good stuff.

Ian

Dad trenches there. That's 14 year old.

Aaron

You are correct, And he would be well served to learn that as early as possible.

Ian

Yeah. That feels like it felt like a good age to start to be like, alright. This is the real world. Right? Like, let's let's have a real world conversation where it's not all fun and games, And Yes.

Aaron

This is

Ian

how people actually get ahead. Right? So That is

Aaron

exactly right.

Ian

Okay. Quick. We gotta do a quick little rating. A quick before we even get back to Aaron's day off

Aaron

Oh, wow.

Ian

I need you an order. I need the order. Yeah. Peter Jennings.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

Tom Brokaw, Dan Rather. Right? Those were the big three in that generation.

Aaron

Peter first. Order. Peter first, for sure. Yeah. And then I think Dan Rather.

Ian

Me too.

Aaron

Yeah. Yes. It's crazy. The only thing we've ever agreed on.

Ian

I would go Dan Rather than all

Aaron

the heads, nineties news anchors is finally something we agreed on.

Ian

There we go.

Aaron

Yeah. Right. I don't

Ian

know why.

Aaron

It's just, like, vibes. Like, it just it just was the right answer. I felt it. I knew it.

Ian

I'm not a CBS guy. I'm definitely way more of an NBC guy than a CBS guy. But See, I

Aaron

don't even know. I remember Peter Jennings was ABC because Yeah. That was in our house. I don't know the affiliations of those the other two. I don't remember them.

Ian

Dan Rather, CBS. CBS. Tom Brokaw's NBC.

Aaron

NBC. Okay. Man, what a time. That was just

Ian

That's a nice walk down memory lane there.

Aaron

Yeah. It's good stuff.

Ian

Alright. So Aaron Francis' day off.

Aaron

You're cruising for our at this point. I'm barely checked in. You haven't done. We have gotten through.

Ian

You're early checking.

Aaron

Part of this vacation have we gotten through. So I check-in. The concierge comes around and hands me a a little coupon and says you can get two cocktails or two coffees on us. Wow. And I'm like, this is great.

I wonder why this is. I have no idea. It's a nice hotel, so maybe they just, like, do that for everyone. But I don't know. It was great.

Felt like a king. It's like, yeah. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go drink these two cocktails

Ian

for free.

Aaron

Found out. You just Never even found out.

Ian

Okay. They were just being cordial.

Aaron

They're just just being cordial. There's a small there's a small chance they've got some sort of, like, CRM thing, and they looked me up and were like, oh, he's got a bunch of Twitter followers. I guess that's Sorry. I'm not a travel influencer. Good luck.

But thanks for the free drinks. So that's possible, but it's probably just fancy hotel in Dallas on a Monday morning, and they were like, we got nothing going on here. Go ahead. So checked in. Turns out all the restaurants nearby are closed because it was a Monday, which I don't know.

What's the deal with restaurants? Like, do people not eat on Mondays? So frustrating. I don't get it.

Ian

Weird. I know. I think you go every weekend, but, like I don't care. You wanna eat at a restaurant.

Aaron

Yeah. Get back to work. So I walked down the street, just, you know, walkable city. I walked down the street, got a burger. It's great.

Love a burger. Sat there. Then I went back to the hotel burger?

Ian

Or

Aaron

No. Sit sit in, like, little little downtown restaurant burger. Yeah. It was great. Loved it.

And then what did I do? I sat in the lobby. So it's super fancy lobby. Sat in the lobby with a little, little coffee, and I read a comic book. I read Calvin and Hobbes.

Calvin and Hobbes. Nineties. Just real nineties show today.

Ian

Nineties. Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. So I sat down there and just, like, reminisced about what it was like to be a kid and then thought, oh, you gotta get out of this, man. You're getting this is sad. You you gotta do something else.

Ian

What about the Calvin and Hobbes too? It's so cute. It's so cute. Sure. Yeah.

He's a kid and the whole thing.

Aaron

Just the wonder of being a six year old boy.

Ian

I know. Oh, god. I don't know.

Aaron

You can't go back. It's a one way trip. So Yep. Then I went I went to the bar, and Yeah. Yeah.

Natural. Yeah. Yeah. Should've shoulda had a little more of a segue there. Everything was fine.

So I went to the bar, and got out my yellow notepad, you know Mhmm. My yellow notepad and my zebra pen, and had a couple of drinks and put in my headphones and just wrote just my plans to, like, conquer the world and, like, wrote it all down. And it was very cathartic. Yeah. Super, super helpful.

Wrote it all out. Everything I wanna do. Everything and I feel like I've been doing well. Everything I've been doing poorly. How to correct that.

Very, very helpful. Mhmm. And then, you know, kinda just putted around, had an early dinner, and then I hooked up my I, you know, scrolled behind the TV, found the HDMI, unplugged it, plugged it into my computer, put my headphone like, had my AirPods paired to my computer, TV on, took a drink up from dinner, took it up to the room. Guy. It was great.

And, I had a drink and watched Sicario two in bed, and it was great. I could hear everything because it was, like, in my AirPods. I didn't have to, like, turn it up super loud and then turn it down when it got loud. It was great. It was perfect.

So much fun.

Ian

I love AirPods with TV. This is a big rack I have. Like, at night, even wife's sleeping, whatever, throwing the AirPods. Like, everything's crystal clear. Yeah.

Aaron

I know.

Ian

It's like I can't hear. There's coughing lost quietly, whatever. Like, nope. Boom. AirPods.

Fantastic. Fantastic. Okay. So that sounds like it went well.

Aaron

It went well. Next morning, I woke up late, which was awesome. Went down and had another coffee at the fancy spot and just kinda sat there and watched the world go by. It was crazy. It's such a weird feeling to just be like, I don't have anywhere to do anything.

Yeah. So weird. Yeah. And then left at about I left at checkout, so I left at eleven, which was fine. Jennifer was like, oh, I thought you would, like, try to, you know, stay around all day.

I was like, well, I left and then came to the studio. If I was leaving and, like, going back to some of the chaos at home, I would have been like, what if I go grab a long lunch? Maybe. Right. But I left, came back to the studio, hung out here, and then I was on a podcast with, Wes Bos.

I was on the Syntax podcast

Ian

You are. Which has

Aaron

has not come out yet.

Ian

I was like, I missed that, but I didn't

Aaron

But yeah. So that was, you know, podcast with Ian, big vacation, podcast with Wes, bookends. It was perfect. It was a great it was a staycation is is ideal. It's just wonderful.

Ian

Yeah. It's nice. So because, also, you could do it short. Right? It's like,

Aaron

when you

Ian

go somewhere, you're, like, going for one day or two days kinda sucks. You know? It's like all this travel and bowls, crap to, like, get out there and all the planning and everything. Yep. It was, like, drive downtown, stay for a night, maximize your time.

It's not nothing's lost to travel. Yeah. It's it's perfect. So alright. So it's the full reset.

Aaron

Full reset.

Ian

Conquer the world now.

Aaron

Ready to conquer the world.

Ian

I think that, your day off is brought to us Oh, nice. Brought to us by Bento. Send your email faster. The email, the email platform for modern marketing. I know.

I don't do this one. This is is your one.

Aaron

Do this one. Okay. Back it up. This, that story was brought to you by now go. You do it.

Ian

It's all stated anyway, but what do

Aaron

you do? That's great.

Ian

Brought to you by Bento, email platform for modern marketing teams, friend of the show, friend of Aaron Francis, friend of Larry Larryville use Larryville News moved to them. Eric's been singing their praises over at Larryville News. Check out Bento. Bentonow.com.

Aaron

Flawless Com. Notes. No notes. Great job.

Ian

I still don't know about reading all these separately. I I know. Think they'd be better together.

Aaron

Let's do it. Let's talk about it. What are we what are we thinking? So we've had we've had the few weeks separate. We got friend of the show, Matt Swanson, sending some feedback, which was good.

Always helpful. Matt Matt is the number one, podcast reply guy who always has good Good.

Ian

Oh, he's

Aaron

also been a cohost. I forgot about that.

Ian

He's been.

Aaron

He's been on the show. Yeah. Always has good advice. And so what are you what are you feeling about the the interspersed ads? Let's talk about this.

Ian

Feel like it's very I don't know. The audience, I think, is probably gonna be split a little both ways. Yeah. But I think as the podcaster, I find it a little bit disruptive to have to remember always to, like, interject, and then we have to do the interjection, and then we have to get back. You know, our our style is we kind of flow from topic to topic.

Aaron

We do.

Ian

Right? And so I feel like it creates a little bit of a break in that flow where we can't naturally transition. Because, like, basically, every transition in the show, we have to do an ad to get them all in. And right now, we only have three. Like, if we have a month with six, we'd it would be We have

Aaron

a month with six. That's gonna be two that's gonna be we would have to do We would definitely group

Ian

them or something. Yeah. For sure. But even at three, I feel like it's like, well, now we're just doing this one read and, like, I don't know. I don't know.

What do you think?

Aaron

Here's, I I buy that. Here's what I think we should try to do next week. So so far, you know, so far, the ads have kind of been a storyline of the show. Right? Like Yeah.

Are we gonna do them? Yes. Ian has this great idea. How do we do it? Now we're doing it.

Let's talk about how we're doing it. So, we've been hanging a lantern on it, which is a theater term. Right. I'm led to believe.

Ian

I like that. Yeah. I think you're I think you're right.

Aaron

We've been hanging a lantern on it. I wonder how it would feel if we just executed on them and moved on. Right?

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

So I wonder how it would feel if it was just, like, do the ad, then don't talk about the ad and just move on. Like, keep it a little tighter.

Ian

You know

Aaron

what I mean?

Ian

Think then do you think we would need to, like, in our Trello board with our topics, which we don't always go in order there either, but do we, like, I almost feel like the ad should be there. Right? So it's like, okay. We're ending this topic. This is the one we're doing.

Like and we're just gonna do it do it. It has our name next to it. Whoever's gonna do the read.

Aaron

That that's prob that's probably a good idea. So in that in that case, you would have said, like, hey. Thanks for Bento blah blah blah. Alright. So, Aaron, what's the what's the deal with and we just kinda, like Just Do the transition.

Run over

Ian

it, basically. Yeah. We could try that.

Aaron

Let's try that. So next week, here's what we'll try. We will

Ian

We have two more ads this week.

Aaron

She gotta give me some warning. I'm all I'm all mentally prepared to be folksy about the ads, not being professional.

Ian

I like it.

Aaron

I like it.

Ian

We'll start acting.

Aaron

Try it. Let's start it. Let's try it. Let's try it. So we'll do it this week.

This will also be good, next week because we'll have, you know, three ads, hopefully, at least three per month, and it'll be good to put them in different order. And putting them in Trello will help us do that.

Ian

Yeah. This will be more set with that. Yeah. Next month, we do have three again.

Aaron

Alright. That's great.

Ian

But beyond that, we we yeah. Beyond that, there's there's availability. So get out there and advertise on the show, you people.

Aaron

Yeah. Buy some ads.

Ian

Look at all this airtime you're getting.

Aaron

Yeah. It's not gonna be this way again, but look at what all look at all what you're getting. Thousand

Ian

bucks. 4 shows, generally.

Aaron

Okay. Yeah. I like that. Alright. So the next one is gonna be me.

I will do it justice, but then that is all we will do, and we'll keep moving. So we'll let's try that. How's that feel?

Ian

Alright. Attempt to do that.

Aaron

Okay. Whew. Alright.

Ian

That's good. What about,

Aaron

that's how the sausage is made, folks.

Ian

I like the behind the scenes. Learn about cloud?

Aaron

Hit me. Give me give me your give me your, so we had a big Tuesday. Right? We had or I guess it was a maybe it was a big Monday.

Ian

I think it was Monday.

Aaron

Laravel Laravel Cloud, Laravel 12, Laravel starter kits, Versus code extension goes one point o. Hit me hit me with some some takes. What did you think about any of it?

Ian

Here's a take for you. The Versus code so I I was able to now go back to cursor because the Versus code, update that allows you to click through to the blade file definitions. So It's, like, super massive. Because, like, without that, I was like, I can't even use it. I'm always going back and forth between the blade files.

Yep. Especially because I've been mostly more of these days working on, like, just websites and stuff and less Mhmm. Even app. And so, like, it just was too crazy. And, like, I just need to be able to click right there.

I don't wanna search for the file. I just wanna click. And so now you can click and it's like, boom. Great. So that's been awesome.

I still think it's still not all the way. Like, it doesn't like doesn't, like, auto like, if you need to import something from namespace, it doesn't, like, know how to fix that for you and things like that. So I still think there's, like, some stuff that is not as good as PHPStorm, but I'm sure they'll get there and they're getting there with that. So, so anyway, that's my little shout out to those guys. I think that's that's awesome.

Aaron

Shout out Jotie. I feel like that's been his project for a long time, the poor guy.

Ian

Yeah. He's been on over a while. But, yeah, Laravel. I mean, the the I use cloud for the first time to deploy the kinda new HubSpot website, which is not live yet, but the, kind of first draft of it so that designer could design it and do designery things. So I was like, I started on Forge, and I actually had some kind of problem.

And I was like, oh, you know what? Like, why don't I just put this in my laptop? So I put in Laravel Cloud, and that was super smooth.

Aaron

It is. Right?

Ian

Yeah. Really good.

Aaron

They did a very good job.

Ian

Yeah. Like, obviously, this is just, like, whatever. A basic website that one person is accessing right now, so I haven't got to use it in more violence than that. But the the whole deployment connection stuff seems really good and, like, the Yep. Interface is great.

And it definitely seems like I mean, it's just gonna be the default mechanism. I think you're gonna launch anything with Laravel. It's definitely the main path. Right? Like, I think there'll still be reason to use Ford for certain things and and so on.

But, for you're just, like, got a side project, you got a new project, you got, you know, a a moderate size SaaS. Like, I'd be like, yeah. Like, this is just what you're gonna wanna do because it's just so integrated and easy and has all the stuff you need

Aaron

to Yep.

Ian

Do it. They even got MySQL out. If you're a MySQL person, that's available.

Aaron

Shout out Fideloper. I don't know if he's Developer is I don't know if he slept since they're on EU when Taylor was I guess he did Taylor didn't mention MySQL at that point. But at some point, Taylor tweeted like, oh, yeah. We'll probably have MySQL early access, you know, when we launch. And I thought, oh, brother.

Good luck, Chris.

Ian

Which I don't even know. I guess the way I wonder I haven't, I haven't looked into this at all, but I don't know if you I get I can't imagine your I assume you could still use RDS server that you acquire on your own.

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

I wonder how that works. I assume you can.

Aaron

You you certainly can. From my understanding as an outsider, you lose, you lose just the e n v injection, which is fine because you can just go write it yourself. Nobody cares. And you have to be careful that you pick the same, the same region that your computes that cloud has put your compute in. And you pick where where cloud puts your compute, so that's totally fine.

And then the other, I would have to imagine the other drawback is, you can't put cloud's resources inside a VPC with your resources.

Ian

Gonna have to be outside.

Aaron

So it's gotta go over the Internet, which is Yeah. I don't I don't care about getting inside. Super don't care about that. But, you know, a lot of corporations and a lot of, like, security people super do care about that. So I have to imagine and I'm just making stuff up.

I have to imagine, at some point, they will at least look into, like, VPC peering, a bunch of stuff that, I'll be honest, I have no idea what it is or how

Ian

it works. Words. We're

Aaron

just making up words. I saw someone once say

Ian

VP hearing, and

Aaron

I was like, I should write that down.

Ian

Sure that's what we need.

Aaron

Podcast one day. But I have to imagine they'll look into stuff like that from people that want to, like Yeah. Have more complicated, resources inside their AWS account and communicate with, like, their web servers and stuff. But

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

I don't know.

Ian

Because that gives you things, obviously, that I mean, I think they're using, like, the serverless Aurora, I assume. I don't even know. I didn't look that closely, but I don't I assume it's not there being big database servers. I assume they're

Aaron

Think that's right. I don't think it

Ian

I think it's not the serverless. It's a

Aaron

I don't think it is. For for MySQL?

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. I don't think it's serverless Aurora. I could be wrong. Interesting. I I've been wrong once before, but I think it's I think it's either I it might just be, my SQL on Kubernetes.

It might not even be RDS.

Ian

They're spinning up their own little. Yeah. Yeah. I

Aaron

don't know. We should have we should have Fadelloper weigh in, because I can't speak to that for sure. But I'm pretty sure.

Ian

And that seems like it's gonna be a lot of work for them. That doesn't seem like something they want to take on. Yeah. Because, like, when they're buying your origin updates, are you stranded? Are they automating the updating of all that?

Aaron

I told I told Tom in Laracon EU. I said, y'all are gonna become a database company that also hosts Laravel. Right. Then he was like, yeah, maybe. Because there is no other there's one MySQL host and, you know We don't we don't recommend them.

No. We don't recommend them. Nobody else is doing it. Like, you can't you can't go anywhere else and be like, hey.

Ian

That's why AWS does it. You know what I mean?

Aaron

Yeah. But nobody else is doing we've got 50 Postgres providers Yeah. That are like, hey. We're gonna be business. Yeah.

Maybe. You know? Well well, like Well, in the end, there's gonna be one of them too. AWS or, like, on top of whatever. And there's only one that has said for my sequel, hey.

We will innovate on top of, commodity hosting. And why isn't anybody else doing it? Laravel is gonna be the new the new mice. Well, maybe they are.

Ian

Maybe that's what they're doing. Okay. I didn't I wouldn't I wouldn't have thought that would be their angle, but, maybe that is gonna be the case. Interesting.

Aaron

I mean, I don't I have no idea if that is their strategy. Right. I think that is, like, they might accidentally become the second largest MySQL database host in in the space. Right.

Ian

Well, I do think there is a thing where, like, you know, it seems pretty clear, like, their goal, right, is to have big enterprise y type customers. And Sure. The enterprise y type customers are gonna need things that Mhmm. The kind of baseline, simple, small customers don't need. And Yep.

Sophisticated databasing is is going to be one of those things, certainly. Yep. So, yeah. So you could see that. And that's obviously a huge I mean, the other nice thing about databases is you could charge a ridiculous amount of money for them.

So margins there are nice.

Aaron

Especially if and we don't know this to be true, but especially if they're not using RDS under the hood. Like, if they're just using e c two and Kubernetes and something else, then their, Laravel's operating costs go way down because e c two is just cheaper than RDS. Right. Because you then have to, like, basically build RDS on top of it. Right.

Ian

Yeah. At a certain scale, it's cheaper. Like, the right. If you you're gonna need a team of people and database people and all this infrastructure. Right?

All kinds of stuff. But then once you have that, then, yes. Like, obviously, you're paying RDS for all that service, then you're giving them most of your profits. You do it yourself. Presumably, there will be more profit at some point.

Aaron

You know, wanna know a business I don't wanna be in? Mhmm. Database hosting.

Ian

That's not a good business.

Aaron

Can you imagine? It's just, like, here, I'm gonna hand you the most important part of my company.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Don't mess it up. No. Yep. No way.

Ian

Every server is tied to it. It's often just set up as, like, a single point of failure because it's too expensive not to or whatever, or you're paying for the hot failover. But even then, it's all then to have that, it's super complicated because it also be real time, blah blah blah blah.

Aaron

That. No way. Yeah.

Ian

See, that's where it's gonna be hard. It's so hard to out RDS RDS because they just can do magic that I don't think anybody else can really do. It's like, yeah, we're gonna have this hot backup because at the network level, we're gonna ship these packets to different places. And, like, I don't know. Like, MySQL itself doesn't do that.

Obviously, MySQL has its own convoluted

Aaron

Right.

Ian

You know, sharing master master setup type stuff, but that has its own weird hiccups and things. Like, I don't know. I guess they're like, you could have a proxy server in the middle and do something. I don't know. It just seems like, though, they're at the hardware doing it.

You know what I mean? Like, they're there in the switches being, like, now

Aaron

they're just moving

Ian

around it. Like

Aaron

I will say the worst part about the worst part about getting laid off from a database company

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

And then still being in the database space is unfortunately, that database company, their product is incredible. Oh, there you go. That's the worst part. I hate that for me. Hate that.

Ian

That is true. I wish

Aaron

it was terrible. I wish the product sucked. Unfortunately, the product is amazing. Yeah. And so, like, I actually kinda think they're out RDS ing RDS.

I really do. And, I think it is doable because I think RDS, oh, I think RDS is the primitive that other people should be building on top of and not the primitive that, like, normies should be using. Now I think database companies are actually better served to sidestep RDS and build it themselves on e c two.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

But in typical AWS fashion, they don't go all the way to UI, UX, like, ease of use. They give you all of the knobs and switches, and they're like, you're you're an expert.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

Build something on top of this.

Ian

There's no support. There's no anything. You're on your own.

Aaron

Yeah. So in a way, I think it's very easy to out RDS RDS depending on what axis you're measuring. If you're measuring on, like, yeah, the ability to get lower level, that's hard to beat RDS because they own the stuff. But if you're measuring on the ability to, like, have a better product,

Ian

you know,

Aaron

it's kinda easy because it's you're competing against, you know, AWS's Yeah. Console.

Ian

That part definitely is. Right? Like, that part, I'm sure, like, the other company that shall not be named, has obviously a much better user experience in terms of the, you know, I go in and click around or

Aaron

just manage the server

Ian

and all that stuff. Yeah. I don't know. There's still that's in there. It's inside AWS.

You know what I mean? Like, it's in there.

Aaron

I know. Nobody ever got fired for buying AWS as the other thing. Like, you have to convince a suit somewhere. Like, no. Trust me.

We're also good, and that's hard.

Ian

Yeah. BC backed is profitable. Is it gonna be in business in three what's worse than being forced to move your database in three years on potentially extremely short notice? Like, that's not that's that's not getting fired type stuff right there. Right?

So, like, big, big ass.

Aaron

That's the fool me once situation. Right. That is I'm never I'm never trusting another database provider again.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

Like, that's how, frankly, that's how I feel about our payment processing. I'm like, nope. I'm just gonna use Stripe. Forget, like Yeah. Forget all these other intermediaries.

I'm just gonna use Stripe Yeah. Because fool me once. And so Exactly. Yeah. That's a tough that's a tough road to hoe for sure.

But, yeah. So whether or not Laravel eventually offers outside database hosting, very open question, but they've taken on the burden of hosting inside database hosting, which is no no small feat. So Yeah. But as, as John Hammond mad money would or mad men would say, that's what the money is for. Right?

Like, that is why Laravel took up the money so that they could take these responsibilities on and feel confident about fulfilling them. Yeah. Because you can't you can't be a database you can't be a database hosting company with one guy in Arkansas and, like, three scattered across the rest of the world. You gotta have 50 people. You gotta have 60 people

Ian

to, like Yeah.

Aaron

Do that kind of thing. So Yeah.

Ian

So what's your take on cloud? So I thought it was great. Used it a little bit. So far so good. Kind of everything I would

Aaron

expect. You know? I'll I'll opine on other things, but cloud is great. I'd Yeah. I have been using it for a little while just to, like, help, you know, suss out

Ian

the things.

Aaron

I know. You out. Harvard. Yeah. It's a great treat.

Ian

Yeah. You got a treat.

Aaron

Been used by people like Harvard and Aaron d Francis, and

Ian

I'm like, this thought that would happen. Yeah. We're the same.

Aaron

Same same kind of level of, sophistication. Cloud's great. I think let's talk about Laravel 12 and starter kits. Mhmm. And, oh, of course, Laravel.com redesigned.

Forgot about that. That was another big one. They redesigned the whole Laravel.com.

Ian

Oh, man. There's a lot there. Yeah. There is. That's a transition point.

It feels transitioning.

Aaron

Oh, let's talk about 12, and then and then we'll transition to to Laravel.com. Doing a great job of not hanging a lantern on it, aren't we? So 12. Great.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Minor release, which, you know, major version, but minor release. We love that. No breaking changes. It is a little as, like, as trying to be a good open source boy. It is a little like, oh, if I gotta go update all these packages to support 12.

Right. Fortunately, Jason McCreary, Laravel Shift has opened a lot of PRs to community packages, which is very helpful. Yeah. It's very helpful. I think he did, like, 5,000, truly.

Not a bit. Yeah. I think he did, like, 5,000. And, so I got several of those on on some of my, repositories, and that that made it pretty straightforward. There's always still something where it's like, I gotta go in here and do this manually or, like, I've kinda neglected neglected this and, like, I need to, like, tune it up a little bit.

Some audio

Ian

stuff. Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. That was not terribly fun, but feels good now. It's one of those things where it's like a discrete unit, and I can be like, I have now done this, and I feel good about it.

Ian

It's accomplished.

Aaron

Yeah. So that part is nice. The starter kits, I like what they're doing now where the starter kits are Git repos instead of, like Yeah. Let me install a bunch of stuff and hide it in my vendor directory or something. It's just like Right.

No. Just clone clone the repo, and, now it's yours. Like, good luck. Have fun.

Ian

It's the best way. That

Aaron

I think that's that's the way that it should be done.

Ian

Every time I've been, it's one of those, like, yeah. I was like, oh, there's this stuff here and then but, like, I can't some of the stuff you can't get at or whatever. It's like, sort of weird. What's mine? What's theirs?

And all that stuff. So, yeah, you can just pack away at it and

Aaron

And, eventually, with every starter kit, every UI framework, every anything, you have to eject and do it yourself. Right. And so making it from the beginning, like, you there is no ejection point because from the beginning, you own it. I feel like that is that's probably that's probably the way to go.

Ian

And there's just not that much upside to the connection of, like, you're gonna import some new big fee. Like, it's like a starter kit, and you don't want them making this huge change that messes with your app two years from now. Like, that would be a disaster. Right? So, like, it's great.

It's like, this is a starter kit. I'm starting with it. Yep. It's going to diverge as they add other niceties, but also what are they really gonna add? Like, there's only so much they can add as a starter kit.

I they can only do so far.

Aaron

And I haven't built in the intervening time, and now you're coming in with your version and it, you know, is a conflict with mine. And yeah. So I agree.

Ian

So I think

Aaron

This is clearly the way to go. Yeah. Tony Lee is the starter kit guy, and he is, very talented and has been for a long time. And now he's internal at Laravel doing starter kits, and I think it's just it's just the perfect the perfect setup. So, yeah, the new Laravel.com.

But before we get there, this this segment is brought to you by Moonbase Labs. We're the rocket fuel your Laravel project needs to reach escape velocity. Houston, we have a solution at moonbaselabs.com. Thanks to Moonbase for sponsoring this show. So the Laravel.comredesign.

You said there's a lot there. What is there? Yes. Tell me. What is there?

Ian

I really like it, but the only thing I'm not I really dislike the scroll jacking.

Aaron

The scroll jacking.

Ian

You get the little animation, but, like, it actually is working better for me today. Like, actually, when it launched, it actually, like, kind of didn't it, like, really didn't work. I don't know if they ever

Aaron

I couldn't get past it. I couldn't scroll Yeah.

Ian

I couldn't get past it either. I was like, oh, this is not working.

Aaron

I'm stuck. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. So okay. So it wasn't just me. So yeah. So it does seem like they've, I guess, sped it up.

It seems sped up, or maybe it was just broken before. I don't know. But besides that, I really like, once you get past the scroll jacking part, which at least, like, smartly, that's only, like, the pop is, like, animation and then just do the normal scrolling after that. Like, I like those sections and how it's broken off. It's it's a lot, which is sort of interesting, like, a little change from what they've had in the past.

Like, it's like I mean, they do a lot now, I guess. It's like, part of it, but, there's a lot there. But it it kinda covers the big pieces, I think, pretty well. And I like how it's, like, code. And it's like, here's the code for the thing you're doing and, like, how clean and easy all that is.

So yeah. So I I liked all that. What are your thoughts there?

Aaron

I think it's gorgeous, first of all.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

I think it looks amazing. I think it highlights I think it highlights the ecosystem quite well, which, this is this is a challenge, I think, when you are as big as Laravel. Like, you there's just so much to cover. Like, you have a you have a bunch of stuff you gotta say and a bunch of stuff you gotta, like, tell people about. And so your information density needs to be pretty high, and you have to have a good way to, like, show it all off.

I think this does a better job of that. Yeah. And I think it just looks way better. My only complaint is the scroll jacking. And I'm not even, like, I'm not even, like, I'm not even, like, a Hacker News hater.

Like, I'm not like, oh, it doesn't work without my JavaScript on. I'm like, get over. Like, you're you're being you're being an idiot. Like, use JavaScript. So I I consider myself to be a a reasonableist.

Yes. And even I am like, oh, did it freeze? Like, what's going on? Oh, no. I need to keep scrolling.

So that's the only thing that I would change on the home page is, like, let me just scroll past this stuff.

Ian

Like Yeah. I think so. I don't think that animation adds enough. You know?

Aaron

I don't think that good

Ian

stuff below it that, like, you'd hate for people to miss because they're like

Aaron

And I will say the, let's let's, like, hold the animation out. That graphic itself is beautiful.

Ian

Oh,

Aaron

it's awesome. Yeah. The build, deploy, monitor with the logos and the boxes. Mhmm. Either just make it an animation or make it a static image, but don't make it a scroll a scroll activated image.

You know? Keep the image because it's it's stunning. But, yeah, the interaction is a little weird. And then when you get to the bottom and you keep scrolling and the testimonials start to scroll side to side based on your vertical scroll, that's where I'm like, what? Wait.

What's going on? How did I end up with the situation? That

Ian

wouldn't bother me so much only because it's, like, it's at the bottom.

Aaron

Super. Yeah.

Ian

Whatever. I think what what is actually really like best, probably the best thing actually is just the top navigation. I think they, like, kinda nail the top navigation.

Aaron

Yeah. I

Ian

just love how there's, like, products. Here is, like, the products Yep. Very clearly. Right? Like, the open source stuff, everything has, like, this nice logo now, and it's all, like, kinda awesome and cool.

And, I think laid out well there. And then the developer section, I I love. Like, it's got all, like, viral news and jobs and upcoming events and, Laracast thing there and everything. Like, it's, like, perfect. Like, you're a developer Yeah.

Where to start. Right? Here's the docs. Here's the resources so you can learn better. Here's the community stuff.

Like, it's all right there. So I don't know. I thought that was really good.

Aaron

And the new the new package logos are awesome. Yeah. I think Love those little isometric things. I think those are awesome. Do you know who this

Ian

is, Hugo, or do you wanna know who designed

Aaron

the major? I don't know. I don't know if it was all David or David and Hugo or, you know, somebody else on the I know Hugo's been doing a lot of stuff on cloud, but so has David. So I don't know. I feel like Right.

I don't know. Like they're all kinda working on everything. Yeah. But whoever did it, hats off. It looks great.

You did a fantastic job. And I think this is, like, not only is it, like, aesthetically pleasing, I do think this is this is necessary. Like, this is very important for, obviously, their business, but also our community to have, like we've talked extensively about how much PHP.net sucks. And this is like, hey. Don't don't actually ever go to PHP.net.

Just, like, go to Laravel is the p h PHP ecosystem. Like, let's just go there. And to have something this high quality, I think does lend, like, an air of credibility to the ecosystem as a whole. The old site was great, but this is just, like, way better.

Ian

This is the next level. Yeah. And then, I don't know if I guess, Forge didn't get a new site, but cloud, obviously has its

Aaron

Yeah. Cloud got its big release. Great.

Ian

Yeah. And then I don't know if Nightwatch I think Nightwatch is the same as it was, just kind of the landing page.

Aaron

Uh-huh. Yep. Which is also beautifully beautifully designed.

Ian

Yes. I think it's kinda interesting too. Like, the Laravel.com is, like, just kinda white clean, and then the, like, breakout sites are more colorful. Yeah. It's kinda like the different vibe between them, which is, like, good distinction there.

I I, producer Dave set up a call, I think, after Laracon EU, he would talk to, like, Jess or something. But, anyway, had a call yesterday with Nightwatch.

Aaron

Oh, no way.

Ian

Yeah. With Jess and Philip. That was cool. Given them our, like, crazy help spot setup Yeah. So that they can keep it in mind for Nightwatch stuff in the future.

Aaron

That's good. That's good. I, I heard somebody at Laracon EU talking to Jess, and they're like, yeah. So we've got, like, 3,000 servers. And I'm like, good effing lord.

Like, the the stuff that I don't know. The stuff that real businesses do is just so foreign kind of to me as, like, a, like, a adorable little hobbyist. You know?

Ian

It's just

Aaron

like, you have 3,000 servers, and I'm sure HelpSpot has, you know, many, many 50 to 400

Ian

depending on

Aaron

how it has. And y'all is probably even more esoteric because it's out in the wild. You know? Like, I know you're trying to bring a lot of it back home, but it's like Yeah. Yeah.

They got a lot of people doing their own thing. So Yep. Yeah. That's good. I'm glad I'm glad y'all talk to them.

That product is gonna be that's gonna be next level. It's gonna be next level.

Ian

It's also, like, the first, like, not just hosting. You know? It's like this is way outside. Like, it's a whole app. It's not hosting.

Man, they're on the Australia. I just love Australians. Australians. Australia. Number one in the world.

Aaron

Australia. One.

Ian

Number two, Canadians. Those are my top two. And then, like, obviously, United States is way, way down the list.

Aaron

Oh, we're easily top 50, though, for sure. I got it. I don't know. I don't know.

Ian

Maybe top 50. Fine.

Aaron

On on the freaking awesome scale, we're number one. But on everything else everything else, we're

Ian

comfortable with the Australians are so good, man. They're so good. I love Australians.

Aaron

They're so good.

Ian

I wish it wasn't so far away. Like, I I still haven't been there. I would

Aaron

Yeah. Who's the workplace

Ian

would love to move? But it's so far away.

Aaron

Like It's too far away.

Ian

You gotta come back for anything. Like, you got a family thing, whatever. It's like, I gotta go thirty hours of travel to get back.

Aaron

You know we're getting supersonic travel thanks to thanks to y combinator. So at some

Ian

point Musk.

Aaron

No. He's Rockets. This is boom. This is a I proper airplane company.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. I know I know you were doing a thing, and I just I wasn't gonna have it. Yeah. Nope. No, sir.

Not on my watch. That is so maybe how far I

Ian

can go, though?

Aaron

So far because it's so fast. Far and faster similar.

Ian

A lot of gas, though. You know?

Aaron

Yeah. I can't speak to that. But, hopefully, at some point, we'll be able to get down to Australia. Cool. Yeah.

Lot of good lot of good Laravel folks down there, aren't there?

Ian

There are.

Aaron

Yeah. What's the deal? What are they what's in the water down in Australia?

Ian

I don't know how this all happened. Like, how

Aaron

Besides crocodiles and snakes

Ian

and stuff. In? Like, I don't know if Jess got in there and then, like, built it out or if it was if it was established on its own, like, you know, just, Darwinian

Aaron

sort of situation. Oh, maybe literally. Wasn't he, like, around there? I guess he was a He was a different island. Yeah.

He's somewhere. Right?

Ian

I don't think he went to Australia,

Aaron

did he? I

Ian

don't know. Who knows? Probably too far away. In that zone, is it the Pacific somewhere, which is,

Aaron

you know

Ian

That counts. That's Yeah. That's all the stuff.

Aaron

I don't know where Duluth is. I don't know where Darwin did his studies. No. No way. Are you kidding me?

Not a chance. Yeah. So good Monday for Laravel. Good releases. Good job, team.

Very proud of the team. It's big. I feel like the, I feel like it's it's an inflection point. Taylor's right now. He's in the studio with Primogen.

Like, some somehow, ten, you know, twelve years later, it's like, oh, Laravel's on the map now. It's like, guys, we we've been here. What's going on? It's crazy.

Ian

Taylor's traveling a lot now. He must be he must be getting those miles. You know? He's got the miles. He's gonna be able to be flying first class for free all over just

Aaron

on the miles from the org trial. You know, when when COO Tom

Ian

when captain of the basketball team Tom comes in, it's like,

Aaron

team Tom comes in, it's like, Taylor, you gotta you gotta go do this thing. You go do the thing.

Ian

Gotta go on prime.

Aaron

There's a Set it up. 0% chance that Tom is telling Taylor to go travel.

Ian

Definitely not the prime anyway. No. That doesn't seem like Tom's.

Aaron

No. Man, Tom is the best. I talked to him at Laracon EU, and he was still talking about the basketball game. And I was like, this guy this guy's a competitor. I freaking love it.

He was he was so funny. So shout out Tom. Good guy, Tom.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Alright.

Ian

Alright. One more. Friend of the show, Packetly. Prevent malicious content by using our simple s three compatible content identification API. Learn more at packetly.com.

Thanks so much, Okay. I had one other topic here.

Aaron

Tell me.

Ian

You were listening to, Sanderson on Tim's side. Did you actually get through the whole thing? Or Got

Aaron

through the whole thing. Got through the whole thing.

Ian

So now are you on board with Sanderson? Because you you haven't you haven't read any Sanderson. I don't

Aaron

Here's what I'll tell you I'm on board with. 1000% on board with Sanderson as a person. I am withholding judgment on the books simply because I haven't read them yet, but I am after I finish what I'm currently listening to, Sanderson is next because I'm so, like, on board with him

Ian

as a person. To hear.

Aaron

It's great. He's awesome. You're gonna love it.

Ian

He's right up your alley because he's a very positive, like, in his fantasy battles and things. Like Mhmm. There are they're killing and stuff. But, like, at the end, he's there's a hopeful thread to all of Sandersons writing.

Aaron

I love that.

Ian

I think you'll enjoy.

Aaron

That in my life. And he was talking about, like, what if we did a fantasy book that was also a heist? And I was like Yeah.

Ian

Not A heist. Start with Mistborn. Yeah.

Aaron

Not A heist? Are you telling me there might be something fast and something furious about this book? I love a heist. So, yeah, he he he definitely hooked me with that premise.

Ian

Mhmm.

Aaron

Sanderson, the person, is, very, like, pragmatic, considered reasonable, like, good observer of the world as it is and, like, adapts himself to that. Just lots of good talk about, like, the publishing industry and connecting directly with fans and, well, how do I, like, how do I adapt to the changing world instead of rail against it? And I was just like, this guy is very, very smart. And, you know, of course, funny and personable and all the things required to be famous, but, like, also very pragmatic and very smart.

Ian

Yeah. Super pragmatic. I think this is a huge thing that separates him from other authors is he was like, yeah. He sees the changes, but, you know, he's like, alright. Well, we have to start our own company so that we can do things that we need to do.

First, you know, most authors just wanna, like, sign a deal and then write books. Yep. So it's like a a lot of programmers. Right? Like, I just wanna be responsible for these classes in this application.

I just wanna show up every day and code those classes and fix bugs and go, like,

Aaron

which is a fine way to live, but not what I want.

Ian

Right. And and not, you know, it's it does limit you in some ways often. Right? So, like, Sanders was like, nope. We can't, like, totally be dependent on the big four publishing houses or whatever it is.

And, so we have our own company, and now now that's, like, paid off hugely because now he has all kinds of stuff that he is reaping all of the rewards from or the majority of the rewards from instead of, you know, the 5% or whatever he gets on selling a book in a traditional way. And he's a huge, like, you could just do stuff too. Like, I think he gets into it in there where, like, he's like, they did this big Kickstarter and he pretended he was, like, dying or quitting writing or whatever, and then surprised everybody with four novels. Right? And, like, it's like, yeah.

It's COVID. I'll just write extra novels because why not?

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

And, then Even though, like

Aaron

yeah. That was a good shtick about, like, I've been embroiled in some scandal, but, like, that's like a that's like a surface level shtick. Like, anybody could do that. Yeah. That's, yeah, that's craft.

That's art. That's, like, you know, that's the game. But the fact, like, the, the enduring or, like, the durable moat is, like, I wrote four books and didn't tell anyone.

Ian

Right. That that's the moat for sure.

Aaron

Incredible.

Ian

Right. Like,

Aaron

you hook you hook them in with a little bit of flash, a little bit of sizzle, a little bit of, like, fake controversy, and then you're like, by the way, the real meat and potatoes is I wrote four books, and you get them all now. And that's that's unbelievable. That's great. I love that.

Ian

And especially because, like, his whole so part of his whole shtick to begin with is, like, he's a very fast writer.

Aaron

He

Ian

has this whole system where he tracks his words every day and that keeps him motivated. And so he writes these huge novels in, remarkably short time for the size that they are. Yeah. And he's often while he's writing the huge, the biggest ones, he's also has, like, little novellas, which aren't even Mhmm. Almost full novel size.

He's got all this other stuff he's writing, so he's insanely productive. Right? So just for him to then show up with four extra novels, while on the one hand, you're like, oh, yeah. Well, he's a fast writer. But on the other hand, it's like he's already producing

Aaron

He's already at work.

Ian

Times as much as the other people. Right? And so how where did he find four novels of time? And these are full size novels. These are not like, oh, these are, like, you know, thin.

These are no. These are what everybody else produces as a normal novel. That's what he wrote before of in, like, a year in his spare time. And you're just like so when he came out, the video where he launched it, like, we're watching it, and it's like, me and my kids, I think, at the time. And he just, like, got the printed out novels.

Right? And it's just, like, one after that. I was like, I wrote this novel. Oh, and then I wrote a second. I wrote a third.

And it's just, like, a huge pile of paper, and you're like, how did he do I've just been sitting watching movies in COVID. This guy wrote four novels. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, so it really, really hit home.

Aaron

So you're you were a % correct in assuming that I would appreciate and and like that. Yes. Totally, totally my speed. Reality. Yeah.

Love that. That is just I I'm so I'm so on board. And I'm shocked that, like, I I guess I'm not a huge fantasy guy. I like science fiction, but I'm not a huge fantasy guy. So I guess there's some part of it that makes sense that I've never, like, really crossed paths with him at all.

Yeah. And so I'll be curious if I enjoy the fantasy aspect of it. But regardless of if I like his books or not, I'm a huge fan of him, And I will I will continue to study him to see how I can adopt any of that mentality or even any of those tactics, for my own

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

My own gain.

Ian

He has an interesting thing just on the books where, like, the the long term his lifelong so he has a lifelong plan. Like, this whole the Cosmere, which is his main thing, all these interconnected novels, and it's got it's gonna take him his whole life to do it. And it's going from fantasy, which is where he is now. Mhmm. And right now we're kind of at the middle of this, the big plan.

K. And it it's transitioning into space. So it's going to be sci fi by the end. Now it'll still be sci fi based on, like, sort of the magical underpinnings of this universe, so it's not gonna be, like, hard sci fi.

Aaron

Right.

Ian

It's still gonna be, like, fantasy sci fi. But but he his whole thing is that he's hard magic systems, So there are rules.

Aaron

And I did like that. I did like that he has, like, guiding principles.

Ian

So even the sci fi era of this will be, like, hard fantasy or hard science fiction in that regard of, like, there are rules You have to play within the rules. There's physics and there's

Aaron

the

Ian

magical physics, so to speak. And so there will be all that kind of stuff you get in hard sci fi of, like, oh, the spaceship just can't go any faster than this and whatever, like, that kind of thing. So, yeah. So that's it's really interesting. Love Sanderson.

Definitely, very good good guy for when you're feeling I don't know. He's just very optimistic in his stuff overall. So it's,

Aaron

good because a lot of

Ian

fantasy, though. That'll be interesting to see if you like fantasy.

Aaron

The the big genre is dystopian. Right? Even in sci fi, it's like, everything is terrible, and the world is awful, and everything sucks. And Right. One hero, it's like, oh gosh.

I'm so sad reading this. So to hear that he has, an optimistic point of view. Yeah.

Ian

It's kind of what we get. Because in fantasy, there's basically, like, the two biggest people of so there's Tolkien who kinda, like, invented the whole thing. We all know Tolkien. And then there's George r r Martin with Game of Thrones, and then there's Sanderson with this, like, Cosmere world. And I love them both.

I love all three, but, like, it is very interesting, because you just have Game of Thrones is super like, everything's terrible. Everybody's screwing everybody. Everything's horrible. The world's a mess. Now I do actually think even there by the end, they will have more of a hopeful note, especially in the books.

I don't think the show really conveyed, but you're gonna have to get through that whole

Aaron

thing. You know? Like 5,000 pages. And then at the end, it'd be like, and he's happy now.

Ian

Right. Yeah. So there's still that. So Sanderson has it much more all throughout is much more optimistic. But, I do love I think Game of Thrones Game of Thrones is certainly, better written.

I would say he's like a true craftsman of, like, every word is, like, sort of perfect than, like, the way it all comes together. Sanderson's not that's not really his thing. His thing is more like just he he's a good writer, but it's more like the ideas. Yeah. It's like bigger picture aspect of it rather than, like, the craftsmanship of, like, the literal phrase he uses in a spot type of thing.

But, so anyway, wish to do a

Aaron

quick It was a long, you know, three hour podcast.

Ian

Yeah. But Yeah.

Aaron

I find, especially when I like the guest, I find Tim Ferris's podcast to be pretty good, because he he does a he does a good job, in my opinion, of asking, like, pretty, like, grounding tactical questions of, like Mhmm. I'm listening to you know, they're all so long, but I'm listening to one with Seth Godin right now and and Tim Ferris. And Tim has been like, okay. So tell me an example of when that happened in your business. Because, you know, Seth Godin's got these ideas about how the world works, and, you know, Tim's like, okay, cool.

When did that, like, I don't I don't get it. Tell me more.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

And I find that to be very helpful. So but there are some guests where I'm like, I don't wanna learn about new age meditation for three hours. Like, I'm sorry. I'm just gonna skip this one. Yeah.

So Yeah. That was the first one

Ian

I've ever listened to of Tim Barris. And it was it was yeah. He did a good job.

Aaron

Yeah. Some of them some of them are very, very good. It just depends on the guest. There's, like, they'll do, like, micro dosing mushrooms, and I'm like, you know? Right.

Not really something. Yeah. Not really something I super care about. I'm gonna miss that one. I still have not listened to Alex Friedman beyond the levels the Peter levels one.

Ian

The absolute worst. He's literally the worst of the famous interview. I mean, he's unbearable. His questions are terrible. Tone is mind numbing.

Aaron

It's yeah. That's that's what I found is very flat, and it's like, brother, you want me to listen to four hours of this?

Ian

I don't get it. I don't get it. Like, it's like I get Rogan. Rogan is not for me. And But you get it.

Aaron

Like, you get the entertainment aspect of it.

Ian

The entertainment value. I get that he he's gonna ask some questions I think are just so stupid that I can't frequent it, but I also get he's gonna ask some questions even from, like, the dumb place where, like, then he's gonna get a good answer. Right? Because, like, he's, guy on the street. Yes.

Here's a dumb question. Now you're gonna give me the smart answer to my dumb question or whatever. Right?

Aaron

Like Yes.

Ian

I get rogue.

Aaron

He plays his role very well. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

I don't get like Friedman at all. I don't know why we wanna listen to it for hours. I don't I don't get it, but

Aaron

I know.

Ian

That's what

Aaron

I know. I saw once They're like the Lex Friedman had, like, a seven hour podcast with somebody, and somebody tweeted, oh, perfect for my commute to Europe. It's like, who's who's who's listening to this? Who's listening to seven hours of a podcast?

Ian

He also likes pretty big guy just does weird stuff. Like, he's tweets like, he's been tweeting about Taylor and I know. Prime and stuff. And they're like, we don't even know

Aaron

I know.

Ian

What you're talking about.

Aaron

Started following Primogen and Taylor and Wes Boss, and then it was like And

Ian

then Prime's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Am I coming on the show? Like, he's just shooting at them. And, like but they haven't been on the show. So I don't know.

Like, he's just a weird dude, obviously. You know? But, I don't know. So what's on the Aaron Francis train for this week? More grinding?

More coding?

Aaron

More coding? More coding? More recording, screencasting. You know? I don't know if you've been following Steve on Twitter, but he's got his old studio set up in the garage.

Ian

Oh, I did

Aaron

see that stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

That was really cool how he's doing the lights and

Aaron

stuff. Yeah. Super cool. So, yeah, more of that, more open source work, catching up on solo, on fusion.

Ian

The other course launched. Right? Or no?

Aaron

Yeah. Real course launched. Yeah.

Ian

Okay. How's that going? Like, it's for sale now and everything.

Aaron

Yeah. It's for sale. It's working. It's it's working. I think it is, frankly, better than we expected.

Like, we expected it

Ian

That's great.

Aaron

Like, a relatively low key launch, and I think it's done much better than that. But it's less than, like, one of the generic database only courses because we're kinda combining two things. And so, of course, that niches it down. Yeah. But, yeah, super super pleased with the launch, actually.

It's sort of an open question as to whether or not or how we'll do the guest instructor thing again, because is the like, what is the highest and best use of our time? Is that doing another guest or, like, doubling down on the stuff we're doing? And right now, it feels like doubling down on the stuff that we're doing in house. That's what it feels like. I think if we had reached the point where it's like, yeah, we don't know what we're gonna do next, then it would make sense to say, well, let's hire, you know, an expert in some other area and branch out.

But that's not the case right now. So, successful experiment, which is good because they don't they're not always successful. Right. Successful experiment. Launch went great.

I think Steven's happy, the instructor, and then, of course, r Steve is happy. And so I think everybody's happy and yeah. Super cool. It was nice for me. People would ask questions about, like, the content, and I'm like, I don't know.

Ask Steve ask Steven. Like, let me let me tag Steven. That's kinda nice. It was a very low pressure launch for me.

Ian

Well, that could be also the kind of thing you just get dropped in. Right? Because, like, okay. You have your mainline series. And when it's like, oh, this mainline series, there's, like, this overlapping technology where, like, maybe there's an opportunity, but, like, for you to go off into rails land or JavaScript land or whatever, like, maybe that's not worth it.

Yeah. So it's like, okay, You got the mainline one. You have an offshoot one that you just have somebody else to do.

Aaron

And I will say that, reminds me of a point. The bundle sales have been doing very well. Oh, interesting. We we've bundled,

Ian

We did bundle.

Aaron

We we bundled high leverage rails and high performance SQLite. And so if you want if you want to, like, get a cursory overview of SQLite from a rails perspective, you can just buy the one course. But if you wanna dive super deep, we've got a discount to buy both of them together. And that, like, that's been doing very well. And so that that leads me to believe that bundling could be, like, a big part of a big part of our future.

So that is a that is a data point that we did not have before this, and we have now learned, and that is valuable moving forward.

Ian

So I I just wanna ask you because if this bundle is not on tryhardstudio.com, and it's not on highperformanceSQLite.com. So is it on the other one?

Aaron

I should hope so.

Ian

We gotta we gotta get this website situation straight.

Aaron

I was

Ian

like, oh, let me go look at this bundle. Oh, it's not there. Oh, it's not there.

Aaron

Highleveragehighleveragerails.com. Buy now. High performance SQLite bundle. Yeah. It's down there.

So we need to add the bundle to high performance SQLite. Yeah.

Ian

And this one doesn't have a team. Now why doesn't this one have a team?

Aaron

You know, Ian? And that's a good answer. Questions. That is a good good good good good good good question. We'll add a team tier.

Ian

Oh, no. This one does have other courses linked off it, which is nice, which the other ones don't have the other courses.

Aaron

I don't know. We're learning as we go.

Ian

Yeah. So I go retrofit that. We gotta

Aaron

go the other ones. Go bring some of that back. Mhmm. Mhmm. So I was telling Steve this yesterday.

If there was some part of me that thought, like, after having launched these the first two courses, SQLite and Postgres, thinking that, like, oh, we've got a business. Like, we've got a like, this is this is a business. We're out of the startup phase and, like, things are working. And I think what I'm realizing is we had two very successful launches, and we still have to build the business. And so stuff like you're talking about here, like, every site should link to every other site.

Every site every course should have team bundles. Every email should have links to all the courses. Like, those types of things, we just haven't, like, we haven't executed on yet. And I think as the launch hype fades away, those things become just, like, infinitely more important. And it's good for me to realize we did a great job last year, and I'm super proud of us.

But we still have a long way to go in terms of, like, let's build a business and not, you know, a hype lunch train, basically.

Ian

I mean, I think especially now that you have I mean, I feel like I've been I bought so many of these things where I just buy the the biggest bundle. Because I'm like, well, I might want that someday. Right? And it's like, for you guys to be like, okay. Here's your Postgres and your SQLite and your MySQL when you get that out.

Right? Like, that should just be a bundle. Yep. Here's everything we have. Right?

And it's, like, twice the price except you're getting four times the value. Yep. And I just think a ton of people are gonna be like, okay. Like, I used two or three of these out of the four. Right.

I'm just gonna buy it. Right? And, like, whatever. So, yeah, I think that that's definitely money on the table for sure that it's just, like, no extra work once

Aaron

you just

Ian

get, you know, once you get it set up. So Yep. But you'll get there. Yeah. I do think, like, these course things, it is weird, like, because it's not subscription, and you kinda have to always be launching or selling or SEO or whatever, all the different angles on it, but you do kinda have to keep it keep it rolling.

So at least you keep that baseline revenue reasonable.

Aaron

Yep. So so we are learning. Yeah.

Ian

Aaron Freitas has been off in open source land coming back to commercial.

Aaron

It's, you know, it's a TikTok. You gotta do both. So gotta keep gotta keep all the plates spinning, unfortunately. Yep.

Ian

Alright. Well, that sounds good.

Aaron

Give us a readout. Last week, you kinda you just, like, you froze, and you you didn't read us out. You're like, well, see you later. I know.

Ian

Since I got rid of my whole standard readout, right, now it's like I'm like, oh, what's the point of the readout?

Aaron

Yeah. Whatever. Alright. We're done.

Ian

Follow us over at mostlytechnical.com. Mostly technical Com.

Aaron

And it just got swallowed at the back of your throat.

Ian

Mostlytechnical.com. From there, have links to all of our social media stuff, all the old podcasts. Sponsored the show from there.

Aaron

The show, people. We're we're we're

Ian

do you

Aaron

think we do this for free? Come on. We're dying. We gotta put food in our family. Yeah.

Ian

We gotta put food on our family. We gotta put food in our family. All the stuff. We need the money to do it. Thanks for listening.

We will see you next

Aaron

week. Later. So long.