Mostly Technical · Feb 14, 2024
Ian & Aaron discuss everything from cryotherapy to the ugliness of most B2B apps to Aaron's first time doing meditation and a lot more.
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Sent questions or feedback to mostlytechnicalpodcast@gmail.com.
Ian
Hello?
Aaron
Hey, Ian. How are we doing?
Ian
Good. We got a lot of stuff to cover today. It looks like,
Aaron
I know. It's mostly nontechnical, but we'll see if we can sneak some technical in there.
Ian
Where do you wanna start?
Aaron
Let's do Super Bowl update.
Ian
Yes. Super Bowl update.
Aaron
Right. It's one of my favorite things. It's great.
Ian
The the huge prediction.
Aaron
A huge prediction. Now we just need, you know, manufacturing to come back to America, and that'll be the final part
Ian
of our prediction.
Aaron
Why? Apparently.
Ian
Didn't you have, like, a baby a whole baby thing? I think we have to wait 9 months or whatever to really, like, totally verify. But
Aaron
Yeah. Well, here's the thing. I think, you know, since they won, Travis and Taylor are gonna stay together because it's, like, good, you know, it's a good story. And then they'll get married in a little bit or or maybe, you know, maybe within a year or so, they'll announce that, they're engaged.
Ian
And then they'll
Aaron
get married, and then she'll have a baby, and then that's when the real renaissance begins. That's when the baby boom occurs.
Ian
Yeah. So we're on track.
Aaron
We're on track. It's you know, this was step 1 is when the Super Bowl.
Ian
I mean, that's like, she's a lot of travel like, all the traveling to go to all these games he's gone to, it's kind of impressive. Like, they do a concert in Japan and then fly all the way back. And I mean, I I was flying on a private jet, which helped. Yeah. But still, it's a pain in the ass.
Like, I would not do it even with a private jet. I'd be annoyed. Like, I would do it, but I'd be annoyed because it's, like, annoying. Like, it's a long flight. You're tired.
You just got off stage. Gotta run the airport. Yep. Just wanna hang out.
Aaron
I know. She's just like us for real.
Ian
Yeah. You know? She's just like us.
Aaron
This is great.
Yeah. So I watched I watched, like,
the end
of Q4 and overtime. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.
Ian
Tuned in for the end. Look at that. I love it.
Aaron
Yeah. It was it was fun.
Ian
The most watched television program ever of any type. Yep.
Aaron
No way. Do you have numbers?
Ian
think it was, like, a 127,000,000 or something like that.
Aaron
Holy crap.
Ian
Bigger than who shot JR, if you could believe that.
Aaron
I can't because I don't know what that is. So What?
Ian
You're from Dallas, and you don't know about who shot JR? Yeah. I'm
Aaron
not. 100 years old, Ian.
Ian
Come on.
Aaron
Of course
of course, I don't know about that. I know there's a show called Dallas. That's all I know.
Ian
Who shot JR, man? Alright. Just leave a comment if you know who shot JR. Let's go. Come on, people.
Aaron
No. There's nobody
Ian
out there.
Aaron
No. Nobody nobody under I don't know how old you are, but nobody under 45 knows
Ian
who shot 7. Good. Oh, okay. But to be fair, I don't even know who shot JR. I just know that it was a thing when I was, like, 3 or 5 or whatever it was.
Aaron
See. Exactly.
Ian
It was a big thing, though. Alright. What else we got? We got a PlanetScale pricing page update. What do you what do you got for us there?
So we had a little commentary about that.
Aaron
I'm on paternity, so I don't have a lot of inside inside info, but it sounds like you bullied, you bullied them into updating their pricing page.
Ian
I noticed that a couple days back, even before you posted that that they had changed it. I don't know if we have any updates on if it went well, but it was it's a very subtle change, and I like it. It's just like under the custom pricing now. It's like everything's the same. Under custom pricing, it's got, like, a start to 3,000 a month.
Like, alright. Like, there's at least a little indication that, like, we're here. We got we can handle big stuff.
Aaron
We've got
our we've got our big boy pants on.
Ian
Yeah. Big boy pants.
Aaron
So I
Ian
thought that was that was a very, I thought it was a nice, way to do it without getting into the whole, like, blow the whole thing up and try to redesign it or whatever. Like, it's I think that's a subtle but important little addition there. So hopefully, it's working out well. When you get back, you know, you can give us a chance
Aaron
to get back. When I get back, I'll find out all the inside info and then probably not say it in this public podcast. But at least I'll know, and that'll feel good.
Ian
The only part I care about is when my check shows up. That's all I care about. So you can just tell me the check's coming. They're very happy.
Aaron
Go ahead and tell you now that it's it's in the mail for sure. Definitely.
Ian
Good. Alright. Yeah. Just make sure.
Aaron
Yeah. Just definitely keep an eye out for it because it's for sure coming.
Oh, so. Yeah. Mailbag we have? What's what about the email address that I don't have access to?
Ian
No. I was just in there the other day, and I didn't see anything. So I don't think there was any mail, but let me just check.
Aaron
Come on, people.
Ian
Live. No mail. No mail. So you can, there was a little confusion some people had. Let me read that.
It's mostly technical podcast atgmail.com. So I did have a fellow who had a problem with it because it was he thought it was mostly technical pod, which is what Twitter is, but the email is mostly technical podcast atgmail.com. So say hi to me.
Aaron
You know, if we were if we were really technical, we would get mail at mostlytechnical.com since we have the domain. But since we're, you know Yeah. Since we're only mostly technical, we're using this Gmail address.
Ian
I mean,
Aaron
anybody who's ever time for that.
Ian
No. Anybody who's ever set that up goes, you don't want any part of that. It's gonna be miserable. I don't wanna deal with it. Next next topic, but
Aaron
Next topic.
Ian
Along those lines, I'm gonna give away a very valuable idea here. And I, I ho Justin Jackson should just do this and hopefully he's listening. But if he doesn't, if he doesn't do it in transistor, then somebody else should do it. I've always wanted like, an e the the pa there needs to be some kind of podcast management aspect of things.
Aaron
K.
And
Ian
because every podcast is like reinventing the wheel. It's like everybody's got you at Trello or you got some other to do app or whatever. You're trying to put topics together. And then the other thing everybody has to do is email. It's like, I just want all this in transistor.
I want a little, like, knock off Trello because I I don't need all this Trello stuff. I just need, like, a list of topics, and I want them to accept emails and give me a list of the emails, and that can whatever. Maybe it's integrated with the topics, maybe it's not, whatever. But it's just all right there. It just comes with my podcast and my monthly subscription.
It's like, boom, full podcast production right here. That's what I want.
Aaron
I mean, it's a pretty good idea.
Ian
It's a good idea. Right? I'm giving away the good ideas on it.
Aaron
Yeah. That
Ian
is a good
Aaron
idea. Good idea.
Ian
You can, like, run out
Aaron
of that idea.
Management for podcasts Yeah. Episodes, basically.
Ian
Every single podcast has the exact same issues. Like everybody's trying to keep notes somewhere, everybody's trying to keep topics somewhere. Everybody's trying to answer customer, you know, or list their feedback with some emails. Like everybody just sets up the same thing every time. It's all hodgepodge.
It's kind of
Aaron
like this. I imagine booking guests is a nightmare.
Ian
Booking guests. You could have a whole little, like, guest booking thing. Sure. I mean, I think there's a lot of, like, angles here. I mean, obviously, you could get an layer out even from that, like, advertising or whatever.
But even that's maybe even that's a sort of a whole different thing, really, but even just within the project management scope. Yeah. The topics notes, yeah. Scheduling guests, maybe like some guests, like niceties, like when you schedule a guest that like make some kind of page for them, it like emails and reminders and it gives them here's the link and here's some notes that you could add in Preflight checklist. Yeah.
Whatever preflight checklist or whatever the the topics for the show could be embedded in there. I think this is, like, a thing.
Aaron
This is this is great. This is a great idea.
Ian
This thing. I'll buy $49 a month. Credit card's out. Let's go. Let's do it.
Aaron
That's a great idea. I know Arvid Call was working on, like, call in voice, like, feedback so you could call into a podcast.
Ian
That's kinda interesting.
Aaron
But that's, like, a tiny slice of it. But, yeah, this is this is I like this idea. It's a good idea.
Ian
It's a good idea.
Aaron
Should we do this? Should we not publish
this episode?
Ian
Should we do this? Should we do this? For ourselves? Yeah.
Aaron
We're gonna have to put this one in the can. It's
Ian
a great idea. I'll have to get back to Dave and see if we have to edit this part out.
Aaron
Yeah. Because I'm sure we both we both have time to build a SaaS right now.
Ian
You have no time for anything. You already have 14 projects and everything else
Aaron
going on. Scope.
Ian
So You need the set scope.
Aaron
This one's all you.
Ian
Yeah. Plus this I really kind of would prefer it. I mean, probably the reason I've never done it in addition to I have the time. But, also, I mean, I've had literally since my last podcast I had, I had this idea and I wanted this back then. I just figured somebody's gonna do this because podcast isn't getting big.
Nobody's done it. But it really should be in transistor. Like, I hope Justin built it.
Aaron
It should be.
Ian
Because I wanted to just be in there. It's like, whatever, have a VIP tier, whatever, some other tier, we pay an extra $20 a month or $30 or whatever it is. And then all my podcast stuff is together, and it's one stop shop. Yeah. I think that would be cool.
But if they don't wanna build it, and then somebody out there in the listener should build it, and we can be the first customers. And we will support them. And that'll be good for the show too, even if we don't build it ourselves.
Aaron
That's right.
Ian
They'll come out of
Aaron
I like that. That's great.
Ian
Take credit. What's better than taking credit?
Aaron
Nothing is better than credit.
Ian
I'd rather take credit than money. Absolutely. Credit.
Aaron
Yes.
Ian
There we go.
Aaron
That's all that matters. I fully agree.
Ian
All that matters? Yeah. What's the street cred?
Aaron
And then I'm I'm not gonna grind away on a sass for 5 years when I could just get credit for having a good idea.
Ian
That's what I want. I want the credit. That's what I'm here for.
Aaron
Alright. What's next?
Ian
Topics. You you mentioned this after the show, so we'll touch on it quick. I don't know if anybody out there's seen, but I have a Invisalign. If you don't know what Invisalign is, it braces for adults, I guess, you'd say, where it's like,
Aaron
After after the last show, I was like, are we talking about this? Do you have Invisalign? You're like, I've had it for 6 weeks. So Invisa yeah. It's a very much Invisa.
So tell me how this happened.
Ian
I know. I was at the dentist, and they, like, just I've I've I've known about it forever. And I was always like, oh, that's kinda interesting. And I don't know. I was just the dentist.
They were like, hey. What about this? And I was just like impulse purchased it, which is crazy. Like, I don't even ever do stuff like that. And nor do I even really care in general about stuff like that, but it's just like I don't know.
It's like something that's bothered me forever. So I was like, hey. Whatever. A few grand.
Aaron
So here's clear. I don't have
Ian
all the metal and all the BS. Like,
Aaron
we'll start with how it actually how it actually works, but the the impulse of it you know? Yeah. You know, when you're you're at, like, you're at, like, Home Depot or Lowe's and you're at the checkout, and they they funnel you down the the impulse alley.
Ian
Right? Got some candy bars, flashlights.
Aaron
Oh, maybe I do need some gummy bears and a flashlight or USB or, like, 48 batteries or something. You know? And they're trying they're trying to up their average order value. You're like, I'm gonna go buy some screws, and then after the gummy bears and all that, you're out of there for $40. Right?
Ian
Right.
Aaron
Impulse alley. Yeah. You buy a few things. Ian, on the other hand, is impulse buying orthodontia at the dentist for a few grand. He's like, oh, I'll get my teeth cleaned.
Oh, you've you've you've got orthodontia here? I'll grab some.
Ian
You got a USB C, and I'll
Aaron
grab that too. Come on.
Ian
Bring some of that.
Aaron
It's just they got you. I didn't know that would work. They got you.
Ian
My dentist
Aaron
first
Ian
of all, I mean, we spent forever trying to find a good dentist. Right? And we've so we got this guy. He's very good. Just like every other thing in the whole world, He's of course the most expensive.
So he's the most expensive dentist in the world. That's why he's good. And every other dentist we've ever had sucks. So Yep. We just pay this guy's ransom.
And, like, what am I gonna do about it? Like, we have dental insurance, ostensibly, but it doesn't, like, pay for anything.
Aaron
They didn't do anything.
Ian
So I just pay this guy's ransom because what am I gonna do? I want, like, good dentistry or whatever, and that's this is all. I have no choice. So I pay it. I'm fine.
1,000 of dollars a year. It's ridiculous. And then, yeah, I don't know. He just hooked me because I've I've thought about doing it in the past. I I can't even explain it to you.
Like, I literally can't explain it. I was just like I was just like, alright.
Aaron
Like, if
you had a mini stroke woke up with the dizzy.
Ian
And, like, I mean, this is a whole interesting bit. I mean, we could go down the whole business path of it. I don't wanna take up the whole show with this, but the thing is that he doesn't even really do it. So it's like this other company on long island and he's it's basically like an affiliate arrangement.
Aaron
He's getting paid for leads.
Ian
He sells it. Yeah. He's just getting paid for the leads. So he sends me in there. It's actually this other person who works with this other company from Long Island that actually manages the whole thing.
I'd love to say the tech was super fascinating. Also, like, just this one time you meet them, they, like, scan your face or whatever. Fine.
Aaron
They do, like, a 3 d model of your teeth?
Ian
Yeah. They do, like, the panoramic x-ray, and then they have this bar that, like, just does this 3 d model, which the this is some real programming stuff. Like, shooting missiles to the moon. Yeah. Ballistic missiles, 3 d model your face.
Like as soon as like they did it, it's like, she could show you on the iPad. It's like, are you shooting around? And then they had it. So like, here's how it's gonna work over the next, like, x months, and it's like, it shows your teeth all moving around. And it's like, how do you just do that?
You just scan my face, and it's all magically working.
Aaron
So We we can we can barely figure out cred forms, and they're doing 3 d mod freehand 3 d modeling.
Ian
I've been, like, 2 days on, like, some, like, a quote in a bad spot and some JSON, and, like, it's breaking, like, my select lists. Like, I'm, like, on day 2 of this fixing this thing. Meanwhile, they're like, got all this, yeah, 3 d modeling. And then they turn the 3 d model into your whole program of these little plastic, retainers, basically, that go over your teeth. Like they just print them all all at once from day 1 through the last day and they just ship them to you.
And I have the whole thing right there. And it's like every week you put in the next one. So it's really fascinating to see all the weeks. Cause it's like, oh, look at your teeth get a little straight and little plastic molds every week. And before you could put the retainer in, they have this app that you connect to, you scan your face with the app, and there's some central board that is, like, looks reviews it to make sure you're on pace.
And they're like, okay, you've been doing a good job so you can move to the next week. So every week so far I've been able to move to the next week.
Aaron
Oh, congrats. That's awesome.
Ian
Well, yeah, it was supposed to be 8 months. Initially, they said 8 months. Then after, I guess, it went off and got fine tuned before they actually printed them, it's only gonna be 5 months. And I'm already on, like, p 7. So Overachiever.
Yeah. We're moving along here.
Aaron
But people are
Ian
so incredibly straight. It's gonna be unbelievable. Yeah.
Aaron
That's cool. So this is this is, this is, like, the ultimate business. It sounds like a lot of start up costs to figure all that stuff out, but now it's just, like, scan and let the computer do everything else.
Ian
I think so. Yeah. And then there's this, like, this app, which seems to be not even their app. Like, it's like some service that does this for, for even stuff beyond Invisalign. So like, okay, all the Invisalign people use this, but then I, it, I get the impression cause it's not like labeled Invisalign or anything it's like generic and that I, maybe there's even dentists who use it for like just regular braces to like review progress or something like that.
I don't know.
Aaron
Amazing.
Ian
All my kids have had braces and none of them have ever ever had a app. So I don't know who's using this thing, but somebody's using this big central app that checks your scans every week and make sure you can go on to the next, set of whatever you're doing. Sure. But, yeah, it's really kind of cool. It's like this whole business, Yeah.
And I mean, obviously, I don't know if you have this, I have a big thing with like the physical world. It's like we have all this digital world business, but like a physical world business, you know, and this is like the melding. It's like, oh, it's like virtual and 3 d models. But then, like, out of that pops these physical world pieces of plastic that get mailed
Aaron
to me.
Super cool.
Ian
I could shove them in my mouth. Like, how great is that? So I I don't know. I've been fascinated by this whole process. Yeah.
And then so that's kinda it. So far so good. If you're thinking about Invisalign, I would say highly recommended. I've been super, impressed with it, and it hasn't been too much of a hassle, more than
Aaron
Has it been painful?
Ian
Not really. Like, there initially, it was a little bit not, like, serious pain at all, but, like, sensitive. I would call it, like, sensitive. But now it's actually, like, really fine. Like, the first day you put the new ones in, it's maybe a little bit tight.
Aaron
Mhmm.
Ian
But no big deal. Like, it doesn't keep me awake. I don't need, like, Advil or anything. Like, it's totally fine. And, that's it.
And you just like the main thing is you gotta leave them in all the time. And I think people get off with like leaving them out a lot. And if you leave them out a lot, then you're not gonna, you're gonna mess up your progress or whatever, blah, blah. So
Aaron
Not gonna pass the, the Sunday check on the app.
Ian
The inspections. Yep. So I just leave them in, like, pop them out. I mean, so there's this whole other thing. Part of this is like, I've lost like £6 from Invisalign.
Like, they should put that on the thing because it's like, because
Aaron
you don't want to pop out to eat.
Ian
Yeah. It's like, okay. Like I ate dinner. I go brush my teeth and put them in, and then, like, you're done. Like, I'm not gonna go grab anything.
Aaron
I'm gonna go through all that again. No way.
Ian
Just like to pull it out and get all dirty or whatever. So right there, like, literally just from that, it's like you're down 6 pounds. So Oh,
Aaron
that's awesome. Maybe I should get Invisalign.
Ian
Get Invisalign. Your teeth are pretty straight, I think. Let's
Aaron
Oh, yeah. But I could lose some weight.
Just do
Ian
it. Yeah. Just the weight. Just just buy or something.
Aaron
There's no other way to lose weight, by the way. Yeah. There's no other way.
Ian
You can't do it. But, yeah, just go buy one of those retainers, like, get like, for they use for football or whatever. The ones you can, like, mold yourself, like, mold your own retainer, and then, just wear it all the time and just be like, nah. I can't take this out.
Aaron
Extremely normal thing to do. But I'm you know, I'm already pretty normal, so that I don't think that would be that out of character.
Ian
Well, you're getting you're getting, you got a list of some things here. You're trying some other stuff. So
Aaron
Oh, man. I'm trying to I'm trying a bunch of
Ian
stuff. List.
Aaron
Yeah. There's all there's all sorts of stuff I'm trying. I'm all over the place right now, man.
Ian
Yeah. Well, we'll get to that. Give us give me these, you have on here adorable dad stories. That's what
Aaron
I mean. I went to my first, I went to my first, like, dad's breakfast at school
Ian
last week.
Aaron
It's for, That's
Ian
a big one.
Aaron
Yeah. So the 2 I guess they're, like, 2a half. The 2a half year olds go to this, you know, school. They go to Mother's Day out 3 3 days a week. And there was a, like, a Super Bowl themed dad's breakfast, And I went, and it was, like, it was really, I was really fun.
Like, the the thing was stupid. Like, the the Super Bowl theme and then, like, the it was just so so poorly planned. The pastor got up there and tried to tried to, like, preach for, like, 20 minutes to the dads, and it's a room full of 2 year olds.
Ian
Oh, yeah.
Aaron
Nobody's listening.
Ian
Like the play? No. It was I'm like,
Aaron
what are you doing?
Ian
I I
Aaron
have no idea what he talked about.
Ian
Right.
Aaron
But, like, you know, the kids got donuts, and we took a picture, and I then I walked them to their classroom, which I I rarely ever do. I mean, the au pair drives them to school Right. Because I'm, you know, off at work usually. And so so I walked them to their classroom, and it was just it was really, really fun, and I felt like this is, like, real dad stuff, like going to school for dad's
Ian
day. Yeah. And I like it. It
Aaron
was great.
Ian
I love the kids. Yeah. The early dad, the little school things are, like, some kind of dance or yeah. Oh man. I can't like that stuff or, yeah.
Are you, are you, are you, so I was a big photo photography dad. Like, I had a camera in everybody's face all the time. Are you a camera in the face guy? Are you a real camera guy with the kids yet, or you're just sticking with the iPhone, or what are you doing?
Aaron
Just iPhone. Yeah. Okay. I I think we both Jennifer and I both end up taking a lot of pictures. Yeah.
Yeah. Especially, like, when we're when we're doing things out on walks or, like, I took a bunch of pictures at this breakfast of them. I, you know, asked some stranger to take a picture of all 3 of us, me and the 2 kids.
Ian
And Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah. Very much very much, photos all the time. And then they just all get funneled into Google Photos, and so they're, like, they're all tagged and facial recognition. And Jennifer and I are both logged into the same Google Photos, so we all see all the photos. And it's just, like, it's awesome.
Ian
Build the map. Apple has a similar thing, but, like, yeah, builds memory, videos, or whatever, which
Aaron
is really cool. Point, I keep telling myself we'll make a book every year of, like, all the photos.
Ian
The books for sure.
Aaron
Yeah. I do the books.
Ian
We talked about that. Yeah. But, we talked about the books hiring
Aaron
a VA to do it.
Ian
I still haven't done that. I tried. I looked. Yeah. Couldn't find one really, but, yes, that's definitely, the books are great.
I even think that you have a lot going on right now, so maybe not right at this moment, but I do think the high quality photos, like an actual camera.
Aaron
Yeah.
Ian
It does add a lot. Like I'm glad I did it. Like it's, I can't get away with the kids, like whatever. They don't want the camera in their face anymore. So I'm mostly just on iPhones at this point, but you know, there's just nothing like a real lens to give you a real, like big depth of field and a super sharp photo
Aaron
with
Ian
really great color. And, again, the iPhone's so good now. You can mostly get away or the the Androids, the high end Androids. But still, the ones I took with, like, the real camera that are just like, they're just, like, so perfect. Like, those ones, I do miss those because it's, like, the iPhone, it's just not
Aaron
You just can't be the inconvenience, though.
Ian
Yeah. I know. That's the thing. Like, I just That's why
Aaron
I always have the phone in my pocket.
Ian
I know. That's why I use it too, but it's like the iPhone also can't do stuff like have a big telephoto lens on it. And let me, like, get a picture of this kid while they're a 100 feet away that's, like, right up in their face and, like, getting them doing something cool, you know, or whatever. But, Yeah.
Aaron
Maybe if the kids get into sports at some point, I'll take a real camera, but just for everyday stuff. No. Yeah. Not, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to be the hipster dad that walks around with, like, a camera over his shoulder all the time. Get the well, the other
Ian
thing is gotta get the videos. Get the videos. Yeah.
Aaron
I'm trying to
Ian
get the most popular. Yeah. Get the videos. Like, my daughters are watching them.
Aaron
And as long of videos as I can. The problem right now is they just come around and they're like, let me see. And I'm like, well, you were the subject of the video, and now Yeah. I'm filming your empty room. And so I kinda do it on a sly.
Ian
Even short ones are good, though. Even short ones, it's just like, boom, a little hit once in a while. It's like Yeah. Whether, like, the phone just brings it up for you or, like, the kids will be watching the old ones, and it's like, they're not gonna watch, like, a 6 minute video of them playing with locks. But it's like, here's 10 seconds where you said something hysterical.
Like, those ones they they like. So
Aaron
Yeah. The other the other, dad story is I've been going to breakfast with the 2 year olds at a restaurant, just me and them
Ian
Oh. Every Saturday. Oh, that's great.
Aaron
Yep. It's awesome. And it's just no no screens, just vibes. We just sit there. They're they don't use iPads or watch TV or anything yet, and so they're just, like they just kinda sit there and look around and look outside and, like, look at each other.
And every Saturday morning, we go out to breakfast. Me and 22 year olds. And it has just become it started as, like, a survival thing. Like, I got I gotta get them out of the house. And now they're they're really good at just eating breakfast at a restaurant, and it's so fun.
Ian
Yeah. That's great. I love that. Do you do, like, coloring stuff or anything? No.
Yeah. You Nothing. Nothing.
Aaron
Just, like
sit there.
Ian
Sitting there like proper gentlemen and gentle ladies and having having a nice meal. I love it.
Aaron
Isn't that wild?
Ian
It is. That's really cool. I love I love eating.
Aaron
Yeah. We went to a new restaurant and playing with those. But beyond that, they're just like, you know, where's where's my food? They'll do, like, the sign for hungry, and then they just kinda wait around. I'm like, this is awesome.
Ian
Man, that is so cool. I love that. Yeah. That's
Aaron
a great
Ian
age for that stuff because they're just, like, you can get their attention and everything can do to them and all that kind of stuff. So it's a cool experience. Wow. And they're not fighting with each other either. It sounds like we're not not terribly.
No.
Aaron
So
No. No. I mean, they fight with each other a little bit at home, but not you know, not when we're out.
Ian
Well, this is a big thing we've always done. Again, mostly out of survival requirements, but it, I think it works out really nice is just to peel off. Yeah. With 1 or in your, you know, may not even be practical with you for 1, but at least 2, and kinda just break up the crew a little bit, give everybody a little alone time with 1 of the adults and, just change the dynamic a little bit rather than everybody going out to eat and people are babies are crying and
Aaron
Yes.
Ian
Whatever. Parents are stressed and whatever. If you could feel like, no. It's gonna take one of you to go do the one thing you like or the 2 of you Yeah. At this stage probably still to go do something fun that, you know, the big kids can do and leave the babies home, and that's a fun, excursion.
Aaron
We split up by gender for the first time ever a day or 2 ago. Jennifer took both the little girls to the store, and I stayed home with both the little guys, and
Ian
it's wild. It was wild. Yeah.
Aaron
You know, the little the little kids don't know anything, and so you're just kinda carrying them around. But, yeah, it's the first time ever. It's kind of
Ian
weird. Yeah. That happens a fair amount in our house. We're 3 boys and 2 girls, so there we occasionally divide up somehow or another that way. That is always kind of interesting.
Aaron
Yeah, it's fun. It portends things to come. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun as they continue to grow.
Ian
So Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron
Those those are those are my dad's stories. Awesome. You need a writer. What do you need a writer for?
Ian
So I'm trying to do things the right way. You know, this never really works out.
Aaron
But Yeah. You don't wanna do that.
Ian
No. I know you don't wanna do things right now. Mostly, like, as we're building out the new help spot stuff, like someday down the road, like, we're gonna need to redo the website.
Aaron
K.
Ian
And part of the new help spot stuff is like a business model tweak and other things along those lines. So I kinda wanna get some of the, like, core sort of ideas and, like, think of it as like the headline type material, just like get some of that stuff together. Right? So it's like, we're not like at the I mean, I have the ideas for it, but it's like dialing that into, like, the actual words. Right?
And then also, you know, the home page and all these things. Given that stuff enough time to, like, actually work through it as opposed to, like, at the end Right. Running around and trying to write a whole website and all that stuff. So trying to chip away. I'm like, okay, like, even though it seems way early, let's, put some feelers out and see if we find anybody who might be useful.
And then there are some other just even writer type things besides that, like some articles, blog posts, and stuff that, kind of ongoing sort of things that I wouldn't mind having somebody in the loop for. We did have an agency for a long time and they did a good job, but they kinda just kinda ran its course. And so we don't have anybody on that all the time, like we did. So I wouldn't mind getting somebody to do some of that stuff. So if anybody's listening, definitely hit me up on Twitter or write into the email and, let me know your availability and website and all that stuff.
Or if you work with somebody, that would be great. Who you really like. Let me know.
Aaron
So this sounds like a copywriter and content writer?
Ian
I guess you would call it. Yeah. Like a copywriter. And then, you know, again, is that gonna be the same person or not? Like Right.
Maybe not. I think it's kinda broken up that way where it's like, yeah, it's more like the copywriters. We're gonna do, like, the punchy home page y type stuff, and then you kinda have a different crew that's more of the like grind out blog posts type of thing, or different just landing pages and stuff like that. So we'll see, you know, it's all this business y stuff. Not the most fun end of it for me, really, but, well, we do wanna try to get it, get it right.
Give it, give us some time to think it through rather than just it's the end and we have something we wanna ship. And so let's run around like crazy people
Aaron
and try to When is the end when is the if this is early, when is the end of bridging?
Ian
I don't know. I I kinda the what I've told the team is probably the end of this year to be able to launch something, whether that's like an alpha must be
Aaron
a huge project.
Ian
It is a very big project. So and we're a small team and, you know, you have real other stuff going on. So, like, today, we had we did a webinar for all the help spot administrators. Like, so the people who, like, administer help spots and
Aaron
Can you imagine?
Ian
Business y.
Aaron
So it's like webinar for admin administrators.
Ian
So that's like an hour right there. Like the day that, you know, Dave was actually doing it, who produces the podcast. But, you know, I was there to help out and answer questions and stuff like that. So, you know, that just breaks up your day and doing a podcast and whatever.
Aaron
Podcast. Yeah.
Ian
Yeah. Like, it it all takes time. So, we're chipping away. We're chipping away. We're getting there.
But, I don't like to have, like I mean, to me, the hard deadlines, not my favorite thing. It's like, this is my business. I don't wanna have a hard deadline, so I'm not gonna
Aaron
have a hard deadline. Yeah.
Ian
Like, I do what I want. And and I know I'm gonna miss the deadline anyway. Like, I could say we have this hard deadline, but
Aaron
Why are we pretending? Yeah.
Ian
Why are we pretending? Yeah. Because it's very likely I'm gonna miss this deadline. So Yeah. I'd rather just have it be a little fuzzier, and it takes a little longer buying.
Like, we have customers. They like what the product does. Like, we're not, like, you know, in VC mode and somebody dropped the pile of money on us, and it's like, we have to show results in x months, or there's not gonna be any more money and things like that. So we don't have quite those kind of constraints. There is always, of course, you know, other elements of the business of wanting it to grow and wanting to have new
Aaron
features and wanting
Ian
to be done
Aaron
with the thing.
Ian
All of a sudden, no, it's never gonna be done. So it's, it's impossible to be done. But, yeah. So I mean, there is those type of things that obviously the earlier it's done, the better, it's definitely better to be done sooner than later. And some constraints are good.
Like, there's a lot of stuff we wanna have in this kinda next generation HubSpot, but will it ship with all those things? Like, you know, that would be unrealistic to if we wait to ship with everything we envision it could ever do, then, of course, like, it's going to be many years until we can ship it. So, we, we can't do that. So yeah, so there are still like those kind of constraints, but, Yeah. I always try to, I don't know.
It's always funny. Cause I'm always like every year I'm like, all right. I wanna make it, over the summer. I don't really have anything to do. Like I don't, I don't, I just wanna have like run the business type stuff over the summer, but I'd rather not be like building big feature, big project, whatever.
And, like, every year, it never works out that way. Like, just always works out where, like, over the summer, I'm gonna be working hard on some type of coding something or some some big project.
Aaron
You're you're the boss, Ian. You gotta get that under control.
Ian
I know. It's just part of the gig when you have a small bootstrap company. It's like the timing things especially are very hard because it's not like, oh, well, we're just gonna hire 3 people and throw them on this, and just to get it done faster or whatever. Doesn't really work that way. So that's all right, though.
You know, we'll get there. Been not cranking away for 18 years or 19 years, whatever it is. So God. That's so long. But what's another few months?
Aaron
Have you been public about what the business model change is, or is that secret?
Ian
That one I'm keeping. That one's staying that one's staying in house here for a little bit. But we were staying on it for sure in-depth, but, that's that was not ready yet.
Aaron
Okay.
Ian
We got a little more cooking to do on it and also just in general too early, but, we will get there. But it's
Aaron
it's going
Ian
to be interesting.
Aaron
I'm going to call it is help help spot coin. You're pivoting to crypto.
Ian
Yeah. That would take. Yeah. With little little NFT action, little Bitcoin integration.
Aaron
And you could, like wonder what it is if you're keeping so close. Yeah. Oh. I don't think I'm
Ian
going to crazy crazy. It's not crazy, but it is different than
Aaron
what we've done. And, I'm going to die and go to heaven if it's a pay once, host yourself sort of thing. Spoiler.
Ian
It's not pay once. That's a stupid idea. So, definitely won't be pay once.
Aaron
Let's talk let's talk pay once.
Ian
Yeah. I pay
Aaron
once. So there there are 2 thing 2 things I hate. 1 is when the big guy picks on the little guy. Hate Hate being wrong, which is unfortunate because I'm I'm I'm I'm wrong pretty often,
Ian
so that's
Aaron
that's kinda bad.
Ian
Rarely wrong.
Aaron
I agree. I really thought they were gonna sell more campfire licenses.
Ian
Thought they really blow it out.
Aaron
Thought they were gonna sell more of this. Okay. So Yeah. Let me let me caveat by saying, I don't know what their goals are. Yeah.
You know, if their if their goals are, this is a marketing stunt for base camp,
Ian
then Right.
Aaron
Well done you.
Ian
Because doing great on that front. Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah. You made a quarter $1,000,000 off of selling a marketing stunt, and then Right. On the back end, you made, you know, however much more. I think
Ian
Right.
Aaron
I think, I think, famously, Red Bull's marketing stunts make money in and of themselves. And, like Right. If Basecamp's doing that, jeez, that's amazing. So I can't call it a failure. But from my perspective, it seems like, boy, I thought they were gonna sell a lot more.
And I think the total public numbers came out at, like, 850 licenses or something.
Ian
Right. So, I mean, DHH tweeted that they made a you know, he framed it as if a quarter $1,000,000 is a lot of money, which, I mean, listen, objectively, it's a large amount of money to myself and everybody listening to this podcast. Right? But in terms of scale, it's not a lot of money. And then when you actually do the math of how many licenses it is, it's not many licenses.
It's only, 800 and changed in terms of number of licenses. So I mean you consider that like So many people out there just wanna see d hhs code. Yes. We figured would be a large percentage of the initial buyers you know, it's not a lot. And then, you know, it's being treated very much like an info product or something like that where, like, traditionally, at least, you're gonna have a lot of those sales in the 1st week and then it's gonna totally go down, because, like, they don't have any SEO.
They don't have any, you know, this isn't even like that much of a word-of-mouth play. Like, there's not a lot of inherent exposure. So with base camp, it's like you invite other people to your base camp and you buy outside parties to your base camp. And so those other people are just learning about base camp by you using base camp. But that's not really true with Campfire.
I mean, again, if you have a community, maybe it is a little bit. But if you're replacing your internal team Slack with Campfire, like, you haven't really exposed a lot of outside people to it and things like that. So kind of just as long as the HH is gonna talk about it is the marketing play. And, so yeah. So, I mean, I don't know.
It's I guess we'll see what they do. I mean, I think
Aaron
Yeah. And you did a full hour on this with with Justin and Tyler Tringus, which was really good. Yeah.
Ian
We'll link that up.
Aaron
The build your SaaS podcast.
Ian
All this. But what what were your thoughts, I guess, about it? So you you you think?
Aaron
Yeah.
I mean
Ian
little bit of an l?
Aaron
A little bit. Yeah. I didn't think, you know, I didn't think it was gonna spark a revolution, but I thought it was gonna do a lot better, frankly.
Ian
You know,
Aaron
I thought they were gonna sell 5,000 copies. Right.
Ian
They I I would have thought the same. Thousands of copies for sure. 1st week
Aaron
I mean, people sell thousands of courses. Thousands of, like, instances of their course, and this seems, like, even better than a course. And I think it throws a little bit of cold water. You know, I saw a few people being like, hey. We should do this in the Laravel ecosystem, you know, when DHH was talking about it.
And
Ian
I'm like,
Aaron
man, if DHH can't
if you
can't if you can't move a 1000 copies, you're gonna move 5 copies,
Ian
frankly. Yeah. If if that means
Aaron
Yeah. I was a little bit you know, I I think I was a little bit more optimistic than you were in the beginning, but I'm just like, geez. I again, I don't know what their goals are. And if we're all being bamboozled into buying more base camp, then
Ian
they get it.
Aaron
But if they're trying to sell if they're trying to sell campfire licenses, I think it's a failure. Yeah. Because you're right. They make 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars. Like, you don't buy 8 supercars and participate in, you know, whatever races he's doing if you're not making, you know, deca 1,000,000 of dollars a year.
So $250,000 is like, oh.
Ian
Yeah. I think playing. I think, I don't know. Who knows? I think it's just a poorly conceived idea right from the ground up, to be honest with you.
But, I mean, I think by taking on Slack would be a cool idea for them to do. It makes kind of sense. Like they took on email. Mhmm. They took on, like, project management when project management was full of bad apps and things like that.
You know, but just you have to deliver it in the form factor of that people want and people want.
Aaron
Yeah.
Ian
Don't wanna host their own software. I mean, I think if they wanted the revolution, if they were really interested in the revolution, they would have done it as open source because that would make the most sense. Like here's an open source Slack competitor. We're putting our full weight behind it. Yes.
We want all you people out there to go out and build reseller setup and hosting setups for our open source thing. And we're gonna have all these different variations, and you could fork it, and you can run. You have different clouds that offer different things in different regions and
Aaron
Yep.
Ian
Different levels of service. And we're gonna, you know, basically just copy WordPress and, you know, similar things like that and go that way with it and then make money in some other way. Like, we're gonna have a our which they've had a job board, but we're gonna have our job board associated with this. Or we're gonna have, whatever whatever you wanna do. Or maybe you're into this hosting stuff now more heavily.
It seems like they talk about that a lot, and we're gonna run the mainline host, but you're also free to host this since it's open source. And so, you know, that'll still help the ecosystem bloom, and that's how we're gonna make money on it. But, yeah, I don't I think just selling these licenses where people can't even really be they can't resell it. It's sort of unclear if anybody else is allowed to host it, like, as, like, a marketed service. And, it's, you know, it's too night.
I I just I don't I don't know who's using it. So
Aaron
Yeah. It does feel like weird a weird middle. So I'll be curious I'll be curious to see what they do over time with it if, like, if it just fades away. You know, they probably spent $1,000,000 on once dot com, the domain. Right?
Ian
Oh, for sure. Yeah. That's an at least, I would say, at least $1,000,000.
Aaron
And so you're you gotta think there's a plan in place and that this is not the final fruition of the of that plan.
Ian
Yeah. I mean, it seems like they have more products, so I guess maybe they're gonna do other things. Like, I wouldn't be shocked if they had a help desk. That would be logical. I wouldn't be surprised if they had, could they do well, see, I don't know.
It's sort of weird like like they didn't they, you know, they don't believe in this enough to do the base camp ones. Right? Like there's not gonna be a base camp ones. So right there, the whole thing's a little bit fishy. Like, if this was like the revolution and people are tired of paying SaaS providers, like, you're you absorb 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars from ecosystem as a SaaS provider.
So then why are you doing that? Like, you should just have a base camp ones. Right? So I very much doubt they're gonna do that. Who knows?
I could see them doing anything, but we'll see. Maybe they'll hit one where, like, it all it all lines up, or maybe they'll pivot, which would make sense. Like, let people resell it. Let people Yeah. Host it, really encourage that.
And, that might be something potentially then. What do you think about there was a lot of I've seen a lot of people in my, like, kind of circles who also just think that just the product itself isn't really up to snuff in terms of, like, the design is, like, super bare bones. And, you know, obviously doesn't have integrations and things, which are a huge part of what people use Slack for, which I had a DHA said that's coming. So I guess we'll see about that. But I presumably, like, the design's gonna say very bare bones and things like that.
So I I don't know.
Aaron
What do
Ian
you think about that? Like, just the product itself, people are not desirable of it, that it doesn't
Aaron
Yeah. The 37 signals design aesthetic has never really struck me as very high quality, you know, trying not to be offensive, but it it's always struck me as, like, a little bit, like, cartoonish or toyish. Yeah. Like, the hey the hey email, I look at it, and I'm like, this feels a little bit like something I I would have done. Right.
And that's something that,
Ian
like, has to yeah.
Aaron
In a bad way. It's a bad thing.
Ian
Right.
Aaron
I'm very proud of myself in most areas, but not designed. It's not it doesn't feel like something, you know, Tailwind Labs would have put together.
Right.
And I think, again, I appreciate that that that exists because, you know, I feel like the cyber truck has to exist and different designs have to exist because that's better for the ecosystem for there to be different stuff and not all tailwind, you know, UI. Yeah. So I look at the design of, what's it called, Campfire, and I'm like, not for me. Like, I don't super love it. Right.
But I haven't seen a lot of I haven't seen a lot of talk about the actual functionality, and that's that's another thing is I don't see people talking about running Campfire.
Ian
I haven't seen I really haven't seen anybody. I think the one the one guy who DHH has been, like, tweeting, but besides him, I don't think I've seen anything.
Aaron
Yeah. I think Daniel Vassallo switched it over for the small bets community, of which I'm a part. So maybe I need to log in and and Took it out.
Like, give
it a test drive. So I don't really have anything to say because nobody's using it.
Ian
That's it's kind of already we're it's over. Yeah. That's it.
Aaron
That's the end of the segment.
Ian
I do have a little pivot on that segment. Let's let's let's take a little angle here, rather than just, do something useful out of this, which is if you're like the kind of bootstrapper dev getting started with building a business of some type, I actually think one of the great principles, which you can find in like 37 signal stuff and my own stuff, I would say. They don't present it this way. But, is their design yeah. I don't really care for their design, like, aesthetically.
Right? But I think it's so important to realize how inconsequential that is. Like, it's a well True. So people get all caught up with, like, I want everything to be perfect and, like, I'm following designers on Twitter and look at those magical interactions and things are floating around the screen and it's bulging and whatever. Like, it's a bunch of stuff I don't know how
Aaron
to do, and
Ian
I'm gonna try to do it. And you're trying to match it. You can't make it work. And then it takes you down a path of that for weeks. Right?
And it's literally totally relevant. Like, every matter. Especially for a b to b app. It's just nobody cares. Nobody's buying based on that.
Every b to b app out there, all the huge b to b apps are horrific, like, way worse than anything 37 seconds ever done. Salesforce. Right. Any of those type of things. Yeah.
I bleed level of horrible UX and UI. So I would that's one of my big takeaways always. It's like that I even have to remind myself because, like, I'm on Twitter and I'm following people and they're all doing all this. It's all cool and beautiful and, like, but that's not gonna make you any money. Like, nobody's ever made any money with that.
And how many apps have we all seen that are like, oh, look, it was so beautiful. It was awesome. Beautiful
Aaron
failures. Yes.
Ian
Gone. Right? You know? You never hear from it again. So you gotta kind of try to push that stuff out of your brain and be like, alright.
What does, like, product actually do? Do people value that? And, like, stay focused on those things. And that's way more important than how it looks or all that stuff. And, Yeah.
And that's why, like, the Tailwind UI and things like that are great because it's like, yeah, you know what? Just go use Tailwind UI. Yes. Just copy paste those things out. Don't worry.
It looks like every other app, because that's only true of you, dev on Twitter that, you know, 10 other apps that you tell when UI, that's not true of Bob who works at XYZ Inc, who never seen this thing before, will never see it again. Your app is unique to him, and that's that's great. So, yeah. So I wouldn't I wouldn't need it's hard.
Aaron
I saw I saw a VC backed auth company, so they do auth as a service, which Mhmm. We we we've done a segment on before. Right. They have 8 designers. Wait.
Ian
Sorry.
Aaron
And I'm like, what do they all do?
Ian
It's all just, like, post up on as far as I can tell, it's, like, literally, like, dots of sight. Like, post up on Twitter,
Aaron
stuff on
Ian
Twitter, to get their name on Twitter, to get these customers who are like, not the best kind of customers, to be honest with you, like dead, terrible and like people like that aren't really terrible customers. And then, yeah. And then even inside the apps, like I was actually in Vercel for the first time not long ago. And as far as I am aware, Vercel has 400 designers. Like, it just seems everybody works at Vercel.
Right?
Aaron
Everybody does work at Vercel.
Ian
And I went into Vercel. And even in there, I'm like, where are what are all these designers doing? Like, it's just a blank white screen with some lists, with some, like, horrific UX where, like
Aaron
Yes.
Ian
Everything starts halfway down the page. Like, you have to scroll to everything. Like, I'm like, what the hell is going on here? Why aren't these 400 designers being like, hey. Like, all the information he wants below the fold of
Aaron
the screen. Like, it unusable. Yeah.
Ian
Maybe we should pull some of this stuff up higher on the screen. How about that? Like, so I don't know. The whole thing is bizarre. But, yeah, I feel like this is a phase that, like, we're we're still seeing the end of that phase of like, there was the huge pile of VC money.
And it's like, you go and hire so many devs to actually build the thing. And it's like, well, what else should we do with this money? Well, let's just keep hiring designers to like,
Aaron
I mean, I
Ian
have never hired a designer for a full time position because I was like, I don't even know what I would do with them. Like, what would I do with them after we redesigned the app?
Aaron
Laravel does not have
a full
time designer. Designer. No. They've got one of those studios on retainer. Right?
Ian
Yeah. It's like, what And
Aaron
they've got, like, 6 apps.
Ian
Right.
Aaron
They don't even have a single full time designer.
Ian
Yeah. And I would love a designer, because I think it would be cool to be like, hey. I need this design. And, like, boom. Like, 2 days later, there's something wrong.
Hey.
Aaron
I'm a designer. I will do that for you.
Ian
Yeah. Right. Yeah. That would be cool. Like, if money wasn't a thing and I could just, like, have somebody there to hang out and, like, be ready to design anything that comes to my brain.
But at the same time, it's like, I could, I can't really, if I was like worried about them being busy 40 hours
Aaron
a
Ian
week for 365 days a year or whatever, Like, I couldn't come up with that much work for them, I don't think. So, yeah, the whole thing is bizarre to me. I don't know. Someday we'll figure it out, but I I I think it's just the VC money from some days when you run out. Yeah.
When the money runs out, there'll be there'll be less designers on Twitter.
Aaron
Yes.
Ian
Talk about random things they're designing with their team of
Aaron
3 other designers. Team of 8 people for a login. Yeah. Right. Alright.
What are we doing next?
Ian
What else we got here? I don't know. We got some of your stuff. Give us the update on what you're you're going on with here. Yeah.
Aaron
We got a whole we
Ian
Transcendental Meditation. How was it? It's
Aaron
weird, man.
Ian
It's a little weird. Right?
Aaron
It's a little weird. So I watched, you know, I watched some videos on YouTube about, like, how to do it. Yep. And then I, you know, found some website that, like, how to how to, you know, pick your
Ian
Pick your mantra.
Aaron
Mantra or whatever.
Ian
Yep.
Aaron
And so I did it a couple of times. Mhmm. Probably, you know, 4 times maybe for, like, 20 minutes
Ian
each.
Aaron
One, it's hard.
Ian
It is hard.
Aaron
It's it's hard to stay, you know, focused slash
Ian
un focused. Wanders.
Aaron
Yeah. It's really interesting.
Ian
You just have to return to the mantra. That's the thing. Like, you just return as soon as you start thinking about, oh, I gotta do this thing, whatever blah blah. You guys have to, like, realize, oh, I'm I'm thinking mantra, mantra, mantra, and just, like Yeah. Say the mantra.
But it is hard. Like, your mind will constantly wander. Like, that's normal.
Aaron
Yeah. So that that was weird. I did a few that were, like and maybe I did one that was, like, guided. I found a YouTube video that uses the mantra just over and over and over, and Mhmm. So I just kinda, like, listened along.
That. Yeah. Mhmm. That was a little bit that was a little bit easier. And then one time so I'm trying to say I'm trying to, like, sit absolutely still or, like, lay absolutely still.
Right? One time I was doing it and, like, I don't know if I don't know if I was being weird or something, but I felt like my body was getting really, really
Ian
tense. Mhmm.
Aaron
And I was, like, kinda like like like shaking almost. Yeah. So I had to stop early. What's what's the deal with that?
Ian
Dude, like, Chris, that stuff is unleashed. Yeah. So my, like, equivalent to that will be, well, I told you last time how, like, when I'm getting in good in the zone, like, it'll be loose and, like, I'll, like, hear my back cracking and stuff because, like, my muscles
Aaron
are exploding. Yeah.
Ian
Untensing, but I'll get dizzy. So, like, if I when I get really deep, it'll be like, I'm not thinking about anything. The mantra, if you're when you get practice at it, like, the mantra starts to get like longer and slower, like you started saying it fast to yourself, but then like, if you get in the zone and you don't get stuff intruding, it'll be like longer, slower, and then you'll kind of just be not even saying it really. You're just kind of sitting. But I'll get like dizzy when that happens.
How much stuff is in here. Then when you're like free your mind for a second, like how powerful that that creates like physical sensations in different ways.
Aaron
That was weird. It kind of freaked me out
Ian
a little bit. Yeah. It's what's what's high to get here that, like, I'm unleashing? Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah.
Ian
Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah. At one point, I I told Jennifer, I was like, okay. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go lay down on the bed, and I'm gonna put my headphones in. I do put my headphones in and put, like, brown noise on just so I can not hear the happenings of the house.
Ian
Yeah. That is hard. As you get, like if you stay with it and you get better at it, like, you can block out stuff pretty well, but it does take a while. So you're
Aaron
not there.
Ian
Background noise. I would sit up. You're supposed to generally be sitting, not laying. I would say generally. But, yeah.
But having some kind headphones in just to make, like, white noise or whatever, like, is, like, pretty common.
Aaron
Yeah. I told her I'm gonna be at be back there. I can't hear anything.
Ian
Yep. So if you come
Aaron
back there, and I'm, like, I'm, like, hovering over the bed, don't shake me
Ian
because I'm, like,
Aaron
in the middle of something.
Ian
Oh, man. That's so cool.
Aaron
Yeah. But it's it's it's interesting. And one of the things that one of these videos I watched was talking about, it was like, do you have to believe in something? It was like, no, this isn't like a spiritual thing. You don't believe in anything.
You just like you're just practicing being still. And I'm like, oh, it's
Ian
really just controlling your
Aaron
mind. Right? Need I don't need any new I don't need any new weird universe beliefs.
Ian
I got it.
Aaron
So I'm there. Yeah.
Ian
It's just like you could do yoga and you don't have to be like, well, you know, 3000 years ago, yoga originated from XYZ. And so like, I have to believe in, like, no, like, this is just like a thing that's good for your body. And that's what I'm doing. Like, this is just a thing that's good for your mind. And, I mean, think about how is it it's, like, almost impossible in modern society any other way to, like, clear your mind, to, like, literally clear your mind.
Like chance. You go for a walk, things are buzzing and ringing and, like Listening
Aaron
to a podcast.
Ian
You're listening to a podcast. Right? Like there's literally, when else would you ever get 20 minutes for your mind to do nothing? Like it's impossible. So I do think, like, that is all where, like, it's very artificial to never have that.
Whereas if you were just the caveman, right, you would have that. Like, you would have all kinds of time where, like, nobody was talking to you, and there was nothing going on, and you had nothing to do because
Aaron
Just trying to discover fire, and you're just chilling. It'd be amazing.
Ian
You're not even trying to discover because you don't even know you're looking for it. Right? You're like, oh, whatever. There's nothing to do. Yeah.
You're right. 4 o'clock, and now I'm just gonna sit here, and then I'm gonna go to sleep. Like, because what else
Aaron
can I do? Buy a buy a
Ian
wolf, and that's it. Literally
Aaron
dark out.
Ian
Life. There's nothing to do. Like, I can't He has a he has a
Aaron
good 19 years. So,
Ian
yeah. I'd you know, if you do it, like, every day, every other day and, like, kinda get into it, you'll get more practice. You'll be able to, like, go longer without stopping. And, you know, I don't always make it 20 minutes. Like there's plenty of times where I only do it 10 and then like, I get thrown out of it too hard and I'm like, ah, I can't get back into it or whatever.
Or just not, I don't have 20 minutes. And so whatever, 10 is better than nothing. But it, it is very powerful and surprisingly. Weird stuff. Yeah.
Yeah. There are other types too. But I do like this one because it's just like just in your mind. You're not trying to, like, control your breathing directly or anything. Like, you just think about the mantra, and that's it.
Like, no thinking. That's that's what I want.
Aaron
Yeah.
Ian
Give me give me a few minutes, and I'm thinking.
Aaron
Yeah. Let's So that was that was that was good. I also you know, this week, I've been in this was kind of a bad week in terms of pain, pretty brutal. And so I've tried a few other things. I tried, a traditional sauna, so, like, hot steam sauna.
Yeah. No good.
Ian
No? No good. That's that's that's for
Aaron
the birds.
Ian
Like it. Okay.
Aaron
Didn't help. Didn't like it. Just not great.
Ian
Done one before or no?
Aaron
I've, you know, I've I've dabbled with saunas, but, you know, like, you go somewhere as a kid and, like,
Ian
oh, I have a sauna.
Aaron
I'm gonna go sit in it, and then that's it.
Ian
Crank it up. Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah. But, yeah, my my brother-in-law has a backyard sauna, one of those, like, you know, little 2 person saunas. And so I went over there and sat in it, cranked it up to, like, you know, 180 or something. And
Ian
Okay. You just Not less than a minute.
Aaron
You just you just you just sit there miserable, just sweating, waiting
Ian
for it
Aaron
to be over.
Ian
Yep.
Aaron
And then I I didn't feel any better. I didn't do anything.
Ian
I don't know about the feeling better part. I I was I so I never liked them. And I tried a few times, didn't like them. And then, this is a dry sauna or it had steam?
Aaron
It had I could have poured water on it, but I did.
Ian
So it's a dry sauna, but you could, like, create a little steam. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah.
Ian
So I have gotten a little bit more into the dry sauna somewhat recently, but it it can be intense. Like, you have to really hydrate and stuff because it will, like, dehydrate you. And, yeah. I don't know if it's I I I have no idea what it's supposed to do. It's like a cool thing you go do.
Whatever. Who knows?
Aaron
No. That's an exercise in suffering. I did try, cryotherapy,
Ian
though. Oh, I saw you tweeting about this. So what's the deal with this?
Aaron
Yeah. So cryotherapy. I tried to do an ice bath here at the house
and
was very cold, much to my surprise. I was quite cold. And so I finished the ice bath with a hot bath, and then I got out and felt terrible. Like, every single joint felt like it was gonna explode, and I just, like, broke down. So that was not great.
Not a good idea. Yeah. So then the next day, which was yesterday, I went to, cryotherapy, which is, like, you go stand in this basically, like, you know, freezer almost, and it's got a glass door so you can see out. And they crank it down to, like, a negative a 140. Yeah.
And this is on beginner mode. There's, like, a there's, like, an advanced mode that's, like, negative 180 or something. Holy cow. They give you, they give you a pair of shorts and socks and gloves, and then, like, a a mask to cover your nose, mouth, and ears. Mhmm.
And
then you go stand in this thing for 3 minutes, and they crank it down.
Ian
Is your head in there? Like, are your whole body in there? I think I see one where your head is out. Yeah.
Aaron
This one, your whole body is in there, which is why they give you the the covering for your your ears, nose, and mouth.
Ian
Okay.
Aaron
And you just you just stand in there. Wow. Freezing. Freezing.
Ian
And it's very
Aaron
it's I was pleasantly surprised that I think I've actually felt some immediate relief. And even today, I feel I feel a lot better in terms of, like, joint pain. And so I don't know. You know, they'll have all these, like, these claims, but my my, you know, general theory is, like, cold is good for swelling. Right.
Ian
I mean, that's what I could say. Like, that's, like, that's, like, a known thing, so that makes sense that doctors. Health information. Actually, we do play doctors.
Aaron
We're podcasters. And so we're doctors. We're economists. We're politicians. We know everything about everything.
Yep. But, yeah, it was it was great. It's 3 minutes. And then when I got out here's one of the great things. When I got out, I warmed up very quickly.
So that was the problem, I think, with, like, the ice bath. It was, like, I
Ian
Well, you're wet and
Aaron
everything too. Yeah. Cold. I was like, I'm just gonna take a 10 minute hot bath, and it was like, alright. We'll swell those joints right up, baby.
Ian
That's a good idea.
Aaron
So, yeah, you just go and you stay dry the whole time. You do 3 minutes and then you leave. And so
Ian
What's sort of interesting too that, like, it sort of validates some, like, even the, diagnosis. And so, you know, it's like you're having these things that kinda make sense for if it's that, you know, which is sort of interesting also.
Aaron
Yeah. Wow. So what
Ian
do you have? Like, how far is this from you?
Aaron
It's like 15 minutes.
Ian
This is the nice part about living in a big city is, like, you have to have access to every weirdo thing, you know, like
Aaron
Exactly. Yeah.
Ian
That you would never think you'd need, but then you do. And it's like, oh, it's 15 minutes away. Well, that's
Aaron
not a big deal. It has like this place has infrared sauna. So you can do that, which is like much lower temperature, but, you know, still, like, I don't know, heats you up, but it's not 180, whatever that is. And then they've got this wacky stuff, like, you can get an IV of vitamins. And I'm like, god.
I don't know if I wanna get my IV done at this little strip mall, this little eye cryo. Yeah. And then they've got, like, compression therapy. You put these things on your arms and legs and, like, squeezes. It's supposed to do something with your lymph lymph nodes.
You know?
Ian
Yeah. Yeah. Who knows?
Aaron
All woo woo. Yeah. It's all woo woo.
Ian
That's way woo wee. Yeah.
Aaron
And then they have, like, a red light bed, which is supposed to, like I don't even remember something stupid about your mitochondria. I'm like, are you sure?
Ian
Are you sure about that? Well, it's like
Aaron
I don't know. I'll go back. I'll definitely go back.
Ian
Yeah. I mean, whenever you have these things where you're experimenting, I think you do have to try to, like, not do too much at once because then it's like, well, I did the item and shot, and I did this other thing. And, like, who knows? It's like, if you have something and then now you have something that kind of work. So it's like, you know, you can kind of stay with that a bit and do that a few times and like, see if that continues to work.
If you do it twice a week or whatever. I don't know what frequency would be. But, and yeah. And then just try to take care of your, like, mental health with the whole thing, which is, like, you know, whether it's meditation or getting a rest or whatever so that you can deal with, like, 4 kids and a job and pain Yep. All that stuff.
Trying to keep that altogether is a lot.
Aaron
Boy, you're telling me. Plus, you and I are starting to sass for podcasters. There's
probably a
Ian
new business.
Aaron
Yeah. It's probably a good idea.
Ian
Man.
Aaron
Alright. We'll save the other one. I haven't gone caffeine free yet, so I don't have much to report, but it's on it's
Ian
it's on
Aaron
the table. Yeah. And, I think big big diet changes are on the table. And so after after they come, we can talk about those. But, the diet changes aren't happening yet because tomorrow, today for the listeners, suffering, but at least at least the
Ian
one last rodeo.
Aaron
Yeah. Exactly.
Ian
That's awesome. Yeah. It's our 30th, 1st day anniversary, which I think we've talked about Yeah. So we're doing a night away and, that'll be fun. We'll be also celebrating your birthday.
We will have a
Aaron
I appreciate that.
Ian
Drink in your honor.
Aaron
I appreciate that. Have 2. Wait. Have 2
for me.
Ian
Two drinks. Sure.
Aaron
Yeah. Tell the boss I said so. Yeah.
Ian
Yeah. There you go. So, yes, that'll be fun. All that stuff's super hard too. Like so it's gonna take a while.
It's gonna be, you know, the roller coaster, all those things, but we'll be interested to hear how you do.
Aaron
We'll get there.
Ian
We'll get there. We'll get there. What's going on with, like, screencasting and all that stuff? Like, is it rolling
Aaron
along? It's rolling along. Still making sales. Yeah. I've got big plans for my reemergence into, the public sphere, but at this point, I'm doing everything I can to not do anything.
Ian
Yeah. That's the play right now, I think,
Aaron
before. I I told Jennifer at some point it would be I think it it is really tempting, and I think it would be a huge mistake to take this paternity and be like, I'm just going to grind based on where I am physically. And so that is my, like, that is my natural state is, like, I've got time. I can do stuff.
Ian
I could build this and stuff. Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah. And so I'm having you know, it's kinda tough, but it's I think it'll pay off long term to to recover a little bit. So
Ian
Yeah.
Aaron
Yeah. It still makes sales, though, which is awesome.
Ian
That's awesome. That's great. Yeah. Stops yeah. Stops happening, with on its own.
And every day, you know, the search engine ranks get a little better and all that stuff is improving even. And I just saw somebody tweeting about it the other day, actually. So it's still, like, out there, and, that's awesome. Yeah. And, Nick, this is actually could be a huge opportunity for you to take some time and get get this health stuff, at least identified fully and figure out what helps here and there and like getting that stuff organized now is huge.
Because like my health stuff I had while I was starting my business and things like that were, like, I'm trying to do that while grinding 70 hours a week and it's, like, impossible and just takes years, and it's never the right time to stop and try something or whatever. So, like, it kinda works out nicely that way to do that. So, yeah. So and just enjoy the time with the kids because, like, pretty soon you'll be back at work and
Aaron
I know. They grow up
Ian
so fast, you know, it's like
Aaron
it's crazy. Yeah.
Ian
Yeah. It's crazy. So, alright. Well, that sounds good. We got anything else or,
Aaron
I
don't think so. Alright. I think that's it.
Ian
Alright. Well, thanks everybody for, hanging out with us. Check us out. Mostlytechnical.com. Mostlytechpod on the, Twitter and mostly technical podcast atgmail.com.
Make sure to comment, subscribe, tell your friends, all that good good Internet y stuff. And, we'll be back, next week. Later.
Aaron
See you.