Super Ultra Tilted

Aaron

Hello. Welcome back from Vegas.

Ian

Vegas, baby.

Aaron

I I see I see you're here, but I don't know what's kinda state you're in. So how are we doing? Give us give us the systems check. Are we are we okay? Are we alive?

Ian

We're alive. We're alive. Actually, everything was really good in Vegas. Felt great. Yeah.

Today, my belly's a little off, which is weird, so we're gonna persevere, though. Better here than Vegas. Vegas, just wanna be operating at full capacity, which I was. Had a nice steak. Haven't had any I don't know if I talked about this in the show, but I've been mostly eating pescatarian.

Have we talked about this?

Aaron

It's probably come up in the gall gallbladder discussions. So

Ian

Mostly eating that way, but, whatever. We're at this really nice steakhouse, and I was like, obviously, gotta have a steak. Had a steak. One of the best steaks I've ever had, I have to say. It was unbelievable.

Yeah. It was a fantastic steak. Poppy's steakhouse. If you've never been to Poppy's steakhouse, check it out. It's sort of a scene.

It's like, it's like a nightclub, but but instead of dance floor, there's, like, tables and

Aaron

Is that the one where they have the steak and the the briefcase? Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. You've been to Poppy's.

Aaron

I've been to Poppy's.

Ian

So, yes, Poppy's. But we didn't have the, briefcase steak. We were thinking about it, but Taylor wasn't with us. And so we were like, yeah, we'll just get the regular steaks. But I had a filet mignon that was it was unbelievable.

Unbelievable. It was fantastic.

Aaron

That's a good that's a good return from pescatarianism. That's a pretty high bar. I like that for

Ian

you. Fighting. Yeah. Sides were great. Had some truffled corn, which I don't even like truffle.

Truffled corn was fantastic. So, yeah, it was cool. Won poker, which was

Aaron

There we go. That's what I was looking for. Give us the numbeys. How'd we do?

Ian

We're up, like, eleven thousand, I think. Oh

Aaron

Yeah. My gosh. Are you kidding me?

Ian

And it should have been more like 14. But so it was, like,

Aaron

$11,000? Yeah.

Ian

It's nice.

Aaron

I gotta get into gambling.

Ian

I know. I keep trying to tell you. We gotta

Aaron

get to get to the point where they're

Ian

they're out there trying to give you their money. You don't have to all this hard work you're doing, you're making money

Aaron

for a lot of them.

Ian

I don't know what you're doing. You could be out there just gambling and living it up.

Aaron

Such an idiot. Okay. How did you win $11,000?

Ian

Being good at poker. Wow. Yeah. Mostly played Pot Limit Omaha for the people know. Did a little bit of no limit.

Did a little bit of I don't even know if I could explain this whole thing. I'm just gonna say it for the people who know. I don't know if you wanna go through the whole thing, but Pot Limit Omaha, high low double board bomb pot was this game I played.

Aaron

No. This is an hour episode. We don't have time to get into that. So I wonder what's going on with that. Modifiers.

Yeah. Hot limit, high low double bowl. What?

Ian

Double board.

Aaron

Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. Bomb pot. Now that sounds fun for you.

Ian

And you you there's no preflop action, so it's a bomb pot. So everybody at the table's in the pot. Anyway,

Aaron

that's the I feel like the longer the name of the game, the more the odds are that you're gonna lose all your money quickly.

Ian

That's right. Yeah.

Aaron

It's like, oh, you can you can bet on 16 different actions, and you're like, what if I lose them all at once? Wow. You know, that sucks. That's too bad.

Ian

Wait. I don't think that's the game you should start in. I think we have to start you, a little simpler. Yeah. So I had the full range of emotion, though, because I was overall playing amazing, which is the you know, since I got sick and everything, it's the longest I've played.

Like, I haven't had, like, a, you know, I've gone for, like, a night and played. I haven't been, you know, away and played three or four days. Oh, no. And Vegas actually tends to be somewhat tougher competition than, like, your local card house because people are going there to play poker, and they're even if they're not professionals, they're people who are into it, so they might know a little bit more. So, yeah.

So played really well. Super happy with my play. Had one terrible call. So I was at this hard, five, ten, no limit game. So just regular no limit hold them.

It was it's eight handed, so eight people. And there's, like, seven of us who all know what's going on. Right? So I'd say there's probably, like, three professional players, and the other four of us are, like, strong recreational players. And then there's one guy.

Aaron

Chaos agent.

Ian

Yeah. He's the chaos agent. He's kinda got the, like, Russian oligarch little thing going on. He's just dumping money into the game. So everybody's just trying to get this guy.

They're just trying to get in pots with him and, like because he's playing every hand. And I hit trips against this guy. He made a huge fan of the flop. I called, which I should've just went all in right there, but I just called. And then a flush card comes out of turn.

He bets big. The the floor was talking me. The guy runs the floor because I was supposed to move to the PLO game, and so I was kinda distracted. And so I just called it when I should have just folded, and, of course, he has a flush. I still had outs, but I didn't get there.

So I lost a big pot to him, which is why it should have been 14,000.

Aaron

But You lost a big pot to the guy who didn't know what he was doing. So Ian, what I know. What's going on? So, dude, I You're talking a big game, and then the Russian oligarch is beating you.

Ian

This is what I'm saying. I was telling the guys in Vegas. I was like, this is literally, like, the closest I've ever been to crying over a poker hand. Like, I was, like, so mad at myself, and it was, like, this whole multiple levels. I'm just personally mad at myself because I know better.

I know what this guy is doing. I know I literally know if anybody gave me this hand history, I would tell them, of course, you have to fold there. It doesn't matter. You have trips. This guy's never bluffing here.

But then there was this whole other level because it's like we all the seven people who are good players, we were all in the know. So there was, like, a professional embarrassment on my part. Yeah.

Aaron

I felt like your face there anymore.

Ian

Yeah. So it was like, everybody's, like, looking at me. You know? They're like, woah. He made that call.

Aaron

You kinda had this camaraderie going. I'm like, we're the smart guys. Yes. And then you went and you're like, actually, I'm a dumb guy. Oh, no.

Ian

I'm dumber than the oligarch guy. Like No. People thought I was playing well and knew what I was doing. No. I'm just a big freaking idiot.

Aaron

So embarrassing. You bring shame to the show, Ian. Seriously Hopefully, you didn't give him stickers.

Ian

I did have stickers with me, but I didn't give him money. No.

Aaron

Good. I don't want those people be I don't wanna be associated with you in those people's minds. You know?

Ian

But seriously, I was. I was actually embarrassed, and, I was so mad. But you know what? I was very happy with myself because so like I said, the floor was telling me I have to go to the other table. So right after that hand, I went to the other table, and I was just infuriated.

Right?

Aaron

Oh, man. So you you embarrassed yourself, and then you walked away.

Ian

But that part was good. I was glad to get out of there. I was like, I'm

Aaron

so embarrassed.

Ian

I know. I wanted to try to stay and get the money back. But you know what? It probably would have been bad anyway because then you're playing stupidly and whatever. So They call that being

Aaron

on tilt just so you know.

Ian

Yeah. Exactly. I was on mega super tilt. And I played, like, two hands at the other table, and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna get up.

I'm tired. I'm super ultra tilted. I'm just gonna go up to my bedroom and go to bed. And that's what I did,

Aaron

which I

Ian

for you. Do that. So I was very proud of myself. That was all part of my playing good other than the one bad decisions. Yes.

Poker went very well. Yeah. And the PLO games are pretty tough. There was, like, these two European professionals who were just, like, living at the hotel, like, playing the game, like, grinding it and crushing it. Every day, they have, like, you know, $10 in front of them.

So navigating those guys, couple other strong players. So so it went good. I guess it's awesome. Love Vegas. Flew the mint there and back.

I don't know if you ever flown mint, but it's like the

Aaron

Don't know what that is.

Ian

JetBlue first class kinda thing. We have your

Aaron

Oh, wow. It's great. That's awesome.

Ian

Line flat. Good stuff. Did you

Aaron

do any of the WWE stuff?

Ian

Oh, yeah. So we went to, WrestleMania. Yes.

Aaron

Okay. So you went to that.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. That's the other thing. Secondary to poker. But, that

Aaron

was kinda, like, the purpose of the whole trip for for some people. Not clearly, not for you.

Ian

Possibly the purpose. Yeah. So that's actually what was there because, Adam Wathan invited me out. They were going to WrestleMania, him and Taylor and the guys from vehicle. And, so I went out there, went earlier than all of them, played poker.

There was I've the the very beginning, I wasn't necessarily gonna go to WrestleMania because it wasn't a ticket. And Taylor had to go home early, so he went to the first day. WrestleMania is two days. Why the hell is WrestleMania two days? It's insanity.

So, anyway, Taylor went to the first day. I went to the second day. I haven't watched wrestling in thirty years, but it was cool. It was cool. It was a interesting vibe.

You know?

Aaron

Is it all still pretend? It's all it's all play acting.

Ian

So this was very interesting.

Aaron

Because that definitely involved

Ian

to me.

Aaron

To me. No sense whatsoever.

Ian

When it's just all scripted, but no sense. I've sort of it was interesting being there because I think I understood more of that now because it's just like it's just a different form of if you like movies or if you like novels or if you like any fictional work. Right? This is just a different form of fiction. That's another presentation of it.

So it's like Okay. Everybody knows it's fictional and but you're just there for the storyline, which is why there was a huge drama because, like, apparently, The Rock, who you all know who The Rock is.

Aaron

Right? Like that From Fast and Furious. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So The Rock has been you know, he owns part of it now or whatever. Of course,

Aaron

he does. He owns everything.

Ian

Right. And he was supposed to be there. They wouldn't they didn't advertise him being there, but he was in part of the the storyline leading up to all this of a big of the main event that was happening. And then The Rock didn't show up, so everybody was disappointed. I bet.

People were very upset. So it was kinda weird to take a big l on this, I think, because people were expecting The Rock, and he was, like, a key part of the storyline, and he didn't show up. And so everybody was everyone perturbed, I would say. So big l for the WrestleMania for people who are in the know, but I was not in the know. I was just letting it wash over me.

It was great. Yeah. All scripted. But you know what's very interesting about it is it's even faker in real life. Like, these like, you can just really tell, like, they're not hitting each other, like because there's not even, like, the camera angle to, like, you're

Aaron

we were,

Ian

like, the reverse of the the main cameras. We're were on the other side. So it's like, you know, just like you could just see they're totally missing. You're, like, barely hitting them. But Makes

Aaron

no sense to me.

Ian

The interesting part was, while that part was even worse than on TV, the physicality was actually better. I was like, holy cow. These they are very impressive, the physical things they're doing. Like, I was more impressed than when I've seen it on TV, because it's just amazing to see a human, like, do a back flip through the air and, like, land on somebody and, like, all they manage to not get hurt while doing all these things. So, like, that part is actually more impressive in person.

Aaron

Okay. So it's it's all scripted. So we can't call it a sport. We can't call it a competition.

Ian

It's sports entertainment. That's what they call it.

Aaron

So is this most closely, like, ballet for men? Is that what we would call it?

Ian

Oh, yeah. I think that's probably, like, a good way to think about it.

Aaron

It's just it's just a nice a nice, presentation of physicality, and it Right. It's just there's no there's bra. Right? Yeah.

Ian

Story line. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, like, that's exactly what it is.

Aaron

Because even even competitive ice skating is scored and is, like, is the actual competition.

Ian

A competition. Yeah.

Aaron

So we can't even do like, this isn't scored. This is just play acting.

Ian

It's literally

Aaron

So it's either theater or ballet, but for guys.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. Man, you

Aaron

can't That's awesome.

Ian

Hell, yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

You can't drink beer at ballet.

Ian

No. So

Aaron

At least they don't want you to, I guess.

Ian

Yeah. It was cool. It was cool. It was a good vibe overall. People were nice, and, oh, jeez.

What else? Yeah. Yeah. WrestleMania was good. Oh, I love doing stuff like this.

I love stuff like this. We're leaving WrestleMania, and, the the guys were like, let's go get a taxi. I was like, we're never gonna be able to get a taxi. There's, like, 70,000 people walking out this building. There's not gonna be any taxi.

But whatever. We go to the taxi place. We could've walked back to the hotel. It took a mile and a half.

Aaron

But What is this? Europe? I'm not walking.

Ian

Exactly. I was with proper Americans. They're like, well, it's fine taxi. Yeah. So no taxis, of course, because there's 70,000 people all looking for a taxi.

But there's a bunch of guys there with, like, private party bus van things.

Aaron

Here we go.

Ian

And I was like, that's what we're doing. Right? So, like, dude, how much for your party bus? It's like a hundred and $50 to go a mile. I was like, you are sold.

So we got in the party bus. We we had drinks in there. We had some drinks. We had eighties rock band music playing. It was great.

So we had no idea what happened. And we made it out instantly. It was like, boom. We were back.

Aaron

And it was great. That's pretty great. That's pretty great. Good for you.

Ian

Love when money solves problems like that.

Aaron

That those are the best kind of problems because there are a lot of problems that money can't touch, and those, boy, those will get you down.

Ian

Yes. And that's the thing is, that was funny that, it kinda came up in the conversation. And when I paid for this, like, talking to Adam about this, he's like, the poker money is amazing because it's just like this slush fund of, like It's

Aaron

unaccounted for. Yeah.

Ian

That's unaccounted for. Right? Like, if I put this hundred and $50 on a credit card that I knew I was gonna have to pay off Yep. Later in the month. Right?

It's gonna come out of our bank account. It's gonna be annoying. You know? I'm gonna be like, oh, man. I've hit a hundred $50 to, like, ride a mile.

Like, it's ridiculous. Right? But if it just, like, comes out of the poker winning, it's like, yeah. This is what this is for. This is, like, fun money.

Whatever. So

Aaron

Yeah. What are the odds that this is the first time Jamie's hearing about the $11,000 profit? Is is that does she know about it yet, or is this okay. Alright. I didn't know how fun the fun money is.

Ian

She's okay with it being the slush fun. But that's the thing. I mean, it's like, if I was a professional poker player, you can't treat it that way, obviously, but this is a little bit. So I use it as, like, yeah, it's a little bit of a slush fund for other stuff. Don't worry.

Jamie uses it as a slush fund too. A large part of the poker bankroll has gone off into random people at the house who need cash for things and all that stuff. So whatever. It's, like, a reason you end up with some money around the house, although I do deposit kinda the bulk of it just to not have too much money sitting around the house. But, yeah.

But so while you're out with it, you just want it. There you go.

Aaron

Poppy state. It's not it's not, like, solidified. It's not locked in until you get on the plane out of Vegas. Right. And then when you get on the plane out of Vegas and you're like, I have $11,000, you don't care that you don't have $11,150.

Ian

Exactly. You're like,

Aaron

I came out at eleven k. I'm a genius. I'm still up, baby.

Ian

That's all that matters. I get it. No. I totally

Aaron

get it. That's why they also that's why they give you chips because they want you to think like that while you're in the casino.

Ian

Oh, they

Aaron

It's a chip. Yeah.

Ian

Yes. Oh, and that a % why they do that, and it works fantastically.

Aaron

It works fantastic.

Ian

Here's chips. Sure.

Aaron

Oh, Diet Coke? $25? Yeah. Here's one chip. That makes sense to me.

Ian

Yep. Yep. Oh, you're pushing in a thousand dollars into a pot? Oh, that's not this is just these 10 chips. That's not, like, money there.

But yeah.

Aaron

We gotta start a casino. What a racket.

Ian

I even won money playing roulette. It was quite a

Aaron

Oh, Ian. That's that's degenerate stuff, man. You can't be playing roulette.

Ian

I know. Well, here's the thing. You like to keep the I like to get the comps and the free rooms. So you gotta give the casino, like, a little a little love back. Like, they want you to play the games they know you're gonna lose at.

So that kind of balanced that out. They don't give you much credit for playing poker. They don't they're not gonna give you many free rooms just because you play poker. So I love roulette. I like roulette because it's the opposite of poker.

No thinking, pick a number, spin the wheel. Chance.

Aaron

Odds are stacked against you.

Ian

Literally nothing to think about. Like, there's just like, I like the number 24. Great. Let's put $10 on it. That's that.

But, yeah, Vegas is great. I love Vegas. Yeah. They did have I didn't so this is the thing I did think about, but I didn't at Poppy Steak, they had a $1,000 Scotch of the Macallan, which is the only Scotch I generally drink. Thirty year Macallan.

Aaron

One glass for a thousand dollars?

Ian

For $1,000. I was tempted, but I didn't pull the trigger on that one. That was a lot. Gosh. No way.

That was a little too much for the slush fund. I was like, that might be going too far.

Aaron

Also, Scotch. Imagine paying a thousand dollars and then drinking a charred campfire. Like, that sounds awful.

Ian

No. That's why I gotta have the Macallan. Have you had the Macallan? No. Okay.

Next time we're together, we're gonna have the Macallan at Okay.

Aaron

Next time you're up $11,000, I'll let you buy me some Macallan.

Ian

In Denver, we're gonna have the Macallan.

Aaron

There we go.

Ian

It tastes like Christmas morning. It tastes like a summer

Aaron

All those peaty scotches taste like a campfire to me.

Ian

That's what I'm I agree. I don't like those. McAllen is totally different. You're gonna love the McAllen.

Aaron

Alright. I'll be open minded to that.

Ian

Yeah. I thought about extending Denver by a day. There is some poker in Denver. It's up in the mountains, but we go on vacation right after. I don't wanna go early for a couple reasons.

Probably not happening. But

Aaron

yeah. But but you know what probably is happening? Uh-oh. The mostly technical day zero party.

Ian

What?

Aaron

That's mostly definitely happening.

Ian

When did this happen? Are you sure?

Aaron

I'm mostly definitely sure.

Ian

Mostly sure. Well,

Aaron

I'm not I'm not gonna give out any details yet because I don't have any.

Ian

Yeah. We're working on stuff.

Aaron

But we're working on it. And I think I think that it's we've passed the more likely than not threshold.

Ian

I think so.

Aaron

I think we're well well past that threshold. We're well into, like, the 75, 80 percent it's gonna happen threshold.

Ian

I feel like that's correct. So We are gonna be having a party.

Aaron

We are gonna be having a mostly technical party night zero is, I think, the the plan. So y'all y'all get in town get in town in time to come to the mostly technical party.

Ian

Which I like that it's the night before because I feel like almost everybody should be there.

Aaron

You know? I agree. Yep.

Ian

You know, most people aren't coming in the morning of the conference. So, hopefully, everybody's there. Try not to come in late. I guess that's the main thing. Like, don't come in at eleven being like, oh, there's nothing going on.

There's stuff going on.

Aaron

There's stuff going on, baby.

Ian

Come on in. We're We're gonna have a party. It's probably gonna be ticketed, so we'll let you know about that. But you can get a ticket because it's gonna be in a space that's, you know, only holds so many people. But it's a good number of people.

Aaron

Gonna be free to the end user, but ticketed nonetheless.

Ian

Yes. Free. That's what we're thinking anyway. I think think free.

Aaron

Probably.

Ian

Probably. Unless you all wanna pay us money. Maybe we can have a tip jar.

Aaron

Ah, I love a tip jar. Yeah. They walk in. We turn around the iPad. We say, how much do you wanna tip to be here?

We haven't done anything, but how much do you wanna tip? That's perfect. I love that.

Ian

Shout out to the, Laravel Inc crew and Hank over there and Samantha. Yep. Her name, Samantha. Because because they've been helping us kinda put it together, and, yeah, I think it's gonna be cool. I'm pretty excited about it.

Aaron

And by helping us put it together, you mean mostly doing all the work. Doing all

Ian

the work.

Aaron

So just just so, you know, we're we're clear. Yeah.

Ian

We're the talent.

Aaron

That's right. That's right. You think Matthew McConaughey plans his own parties? Come on. We're McConaughey, baby.

Ian

Back there, be like, here's what's gonna the curtain and this thing and getting the lighting people. No.

Aaron

I don't know. I've heard he's pretty meticulous. But yeah. Yeah. We're definitely not doing that.

That's for sure.

Ian

No. We need help. We need helpers. We can't do this on our own.

Aaron

We need so much help.

Ian

No. It's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a party. People are gonna hang out. I don't know if we're gonna I think right now, I think we're not really doing anything.

We're just, like, just gonna be a gathering.

Aaron

Just gonna be a gathering. Just a welcome party.

Ian

Yeah. We thought about recording, but, adds a lot of

Aaron

Adds a lot, and I don't know. Then it's, like, thirty to thirty minutes to an hour of people sitting around listening to us. And what if it's not, you know, what if it's not funny, which it obviously would be. But It'd be funny. Come on.

Hey. Come on. I don't know. It just you know, I'd rather I'd rather be amongst the people. You know?

Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. I think so. Plus, you're emceeing Right. The event. So it's like, that's a whole you're busy to begin with and all that.

So, yeah, I think we'll start this year's gathering. Maybe we'll we'll layer on more stuff in the future. But, yeah, that's gonna be exciting. I'm very excited about that. The day zero party.

So so get your Laracon tickets.

Aaron

Get your Laracon tickets. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

Well, you wanna hear more more about them, in a bit. So

Aaron

But right now, you're gonna hear about some of our other sponsors. Yes. This episode is sponsored by Bento. Bento is the transactional and marketing email provider that we use at TryHard Studios. Check them out at BentoNow.com for all of your email sending needs.

This episode is also sponsored by Work OS auth kit. They have a new starter kit. So Laravel twelve's new starter kits include Work OS auth kits. You can choose that as your scaffolding your app. Future proof your authentication stack with the identity layer trusted by OpenAI.

Ever heard of them? Cursor, Perplexity, and Vercel. Check them out at workOS.com. Thank you to them for sponsoring the show.

Ian

Very cool. So you were traveling this week too?

Aaron

I was traveling. I was traveling. Just a podcast about town. I too saw Taylor. So Taylor had a big Taylor had a big weekend.

Got to see both halves of mostly technical. Lucky Taylor. Lucky him.

Ian

Oh, lucky god.

Aaron

Everyone should be so lucky. Yes. So I went to React Miami this past week.

Ian

Yes.

Aaron

And it was very different. First of all, it was a lot of fun, and I think that is one of the main things that they're optimizing for is a lot of fun. It was like it felt like spring break for developers. I mean, people were just cutting loose, man. So, yeah, I went as, stand in cohost for a podcast called Whiskey Web and Whatnot, which is very fun.

They, you know, they drink whiskey and talk about the Internet. It's like, yeah. I could get behind that. So I went to help hold down the booth. So I had a few responsibilities, but not not too many.

I think we did three interviews on one day and then maybe just one the next day. So I wasn't terribly busy, which was nice. But, yeah, they

Ian

they were interviews. I didn't think you were interviewing. I thought you were

Aaron

Oh, yeah.

Ian

Shooting shooting shit, but you were interviewing people.

Aaron

I mean, that is kind is is kinda, hey. How's your father? But it is an interview. So, yeah, very casual, though. Day zero, went to the party at Dax's house.

Ian

Dax's house.

Aaron

Dax's house. Saw a lot of lot of friends there. Saw the whole, the whole terminal crew, all the coffee boys, then, you know, bunch of Cloudflare folks. I sent them your best. I said, my cohost, Ian folks.

Says thank you for the stock appreciation.

Ian

I I didn't know.

Aaron

And then I told him to get back to work. I just got I got a shareholder who's who's pinging me, and he's like, y'all gotta quit partying. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. They just gotta get back to work. What the hell is going on?

Aaron

So that was fun. Lot of lot of CloudFlare people there, which they're all all I don't I can't speak for all of them, but all the ones I met were wonderful. Just absolutely a delight.

Ian

So only hires wonderful people.

Aaron

Apparently. Or at least he only sends the wonderful ones to conferences because all the ones I met were wonderful.

Ian

Dax is a big CloudFlare guy also.

Aaron

He is. Big CloudFlare guy.

Ian

Part of the thing.

Aaron

One funny one funny, situation I found myself in was I was talking to a woman that works at CloudFlare, And I was like, oh, hey. What do you do? Oh, cool. I know this guy that works at Cloudflare. I follow him.

I don't know him personally, but I follow him. And he's super cool, and I really like him. Do you work with him at all? And she kinda smiled, and I was like, uh-oh. Did I, like, you know, did I step in it?

Like, what's going on here? She smiled and kinda laughed, and she said, yeah. I know him. That's actually my husband. I'm married to him.

And I was like, oh. Crazy. That's crazy. Different last names, obviously, I didn't know. But, like, talk about the ultimate, happy, like, like, opposite of stepping in it was Yeah.

Hey. I know this guy on the Internet. I love him. He's awesome. Do you know him?

And she says, know him. I'm married to him. I was like, that's crazy.

Ian

Than you do.

Aaron

Yeah. I know. I was like, you're so lucky. So that was fun. And then lots of, neon people, the database.

Lots of neon people there. They sent their best and brightest. Very fun. Yeah. I saw Guillermo Rausch at Dax's party, and Guillermo and Dax took a picture together.

And I'm like, I thought you guys were mortal enemies. Like, is this just all is this all a facade? Is this all for 10?

Ian

Yeah. So they

Aaron

took this picture. You know, Guillermo came bearing gifts. And he Oh. Yeah. He rolled in this large wooden horse and was like, don't look inside of it.

It's fine. I'm just kidding. He came bearing a, like, it was like this really fancy, like, chocolate dessert, walked in, and was like, hey. I brought a, you know, a gift. It's like, what a classy guy.

So, yeah, that was very confusing.

Ian

Look at that.

Aaron

That was very confusing to me. The they're like buds. I thought they were I really thought they were enemies. Yeah. Who knows?

Maybe everything on the Internet is not as sincere as I thought it was.

Ian

For sure.

Aaron

And then shocking

Ian

at different levels. You know, I mean, Guillermo is, like, running this giant company. Doc's, like, in a start up. So, yeah, you don't have to be mortal enemies, like Yeah. In that regard.

Aaron

I think I think Guillermo and Matthew Prince maybe are actually mortal enemies, and maybe Guillermo and Dax are just hamming it up for the people. Who can say?

Ian

I think that could be. Yeah.

Aaron

And then Dax's dog bit somebody. Yikes. Yeah.

Ian

That's crazy.

Aaron

Very bad. And, apparently, Dax's dog bit somebody last year. What? Yes. He bit apparently apparently, this dog bit Sam Selikhov last year

Ian

Oh my god.

Aaron

And, like, drew blood. Yes. And this year, it bit, Taylor Dessen, not Taylor well, Taylor Dessen, the recruiter guy, bit him on the butt, ripped his pants, drew blood, and Taylor had to go to the urgent care. I

Ian

mean, that's a real bite. If it if it's

Aaron

That's a real bite from a Doberman. Yes.

Ian

That's like a real bite.

Aaron

And I'm like, what the hell is this dog doing out here if it bit somebody last year? Oh, boy. I know.

Ian

How does OSHA hear about Dax's house? Jeez.

Aaron

No kidding. So that was feels

Ian

on brand, to be honest.

Aaron

It is kinda on brand. Yeah. No.

Ian

He's got the dog's gotta bite somebody next year now too. You know?

Aaron

I know. It's thing now.

Ian

Not great. And Kinda like this. Like, there's a little it's a little, like, little danger in going

Aaron

A little danger coming to the party. Yeah. Hey. Come over. Have a drink.

I don't know what'll happen.

Ian

I think it's great. I think you shouldn't be going to Dax's being like, oh, this is a safe space.

Aaron

This is a safe space.

Ian

You wanna be on edge at Dax's, though.

Aaron

If you're in Dax's, you gotta have eyes in the back of your head.

Ian

Exactly. Like, you wanna know what's going on, who's around you.

Aaron

Gonna get made fun of? Is the dog gonna bite me? What's going on? Can happen.

Ian

Somebody's gonna put a bag over

Aaron

my head. Anything's possible Exactly.

Ian

To this house.

Aaron

So that was kinda wild.

Ian

Probably the dog you know, it's a lot of people. Probably not used to that. You know?

Aaron

Yeah. You know? Fool me once. Put the dog in the backyard or, like, in the, you know, in the closet or something.

Ian

Yeah. Live dangerously.

Aaron

No. Not when you're hosting a party. So I

Ian

heard it was wild. I heard there was, like, Ken Ken Wheeler was in mare form and

Aaron

But, man.

Ian

Be a little sleepy at on the panel. Sounded like

Aaron

Ken Wheeler fell asleep. He's the MC. So we'll jump we'll we'll jump ahead a little bit. That was day zero. We'll jump ahead to the panel.

So we got this panel with Guillermo Rausch

Ian

Right.

Aaron

Taylor Otwell. Yep. And then these two guys I've never heard of, but, apparently, they created React. Yeah.

Ian

Who asked? About them.

Aaron

Rando to me, but everybody else was starstruck. Right. They're on this panel. It's a little it's a little low energy, and then somebody answers, like you know, one of the panelists answers the final question that had been asked, and it just goes silent. And everybody's kinda, like, looking around.

The whole thing's been a little awkward. Everybody's just kinda, like, looking around. And then Madison, who is one of the co MCs, like, elbows Ken, and Ken just kinda, like, pops up. He had fallen asleep on stage. Fallen asleep.

Ian

That's like a conference in name only. It's just like

Aaron

Name only. This is a party. This is this is a conference wrapped in a party. Yeah. It was I was like, what are we what is going on here?

Ian

Dude, that's a high bar.

Aaron

You're gonna have to have a bar. I know. Name at learn. I'm gonna have to stay awake during during my MC duties. That's crazy.

Ian

I feel like you gotta go the opposite direction. Like, what can you do to be even more, like, outrageous and inappropriate?

Aaron

Literally nothing. There's nothing left.

Ian

More than fall asleep is hard. Like, there's nothing left. Show is kinda different. Like, no show, it's like they're just gonna route around it and be like, okay. Well, we'll make it work, and

Aaron

Right.

Ian

They're not here or whatever. But, like, when they're when you're on stage and you're supposed to be there and you're physically there, but you're not mentally there, Not you're not aware of what's going on on your own joke.

Aaron

Not ideal. We'll say that.

Ian

Dude, you gotta come up with something for this. I'm telling you. I I I think you could top it.

Aaron

I think what I'm gonna come up with for Laracon is I'm going to faithfully execute my duties. I think that that's kinda like my MO.

Ian

Too on brand

Aaron

for you. No. That's kinda always my plan. Like Counterculture. What am I supposed to do, and how can I do that to the best of my abilities?

That's kinda my move. Boredom, dude. Everybody has moves. That one just happens to be mine. So, yeah, kinda kinda off the rails.

It was, Miami. Oh, dude. It was there was a lot going on. Fortunately fortunately, I had a posse. We love a posse.

Ian

A posse. That's why we had a posse this week too.

Aaron

We love a posse. So good. So so the posse was, Joe t, friend of the pod.

Ian

Oh, Joe t was there.

Aaron

PHP NYC Joe t. So he was there. John O'Nolan, whom we love. John O'Nolan, sir. Creator founder of, ghost.org.

Big fan big fan of John O'Nolan. Then we had the Hank Taylor marketing at Laravel.

Ian

Alright.

Aaron

Yep. And then, we had this we had this other guy named Josiah who just kinda you know, Josiah, if you're listening, great hang. Sweet, sweet hang. Guy came out of nowhere. This guy came out of nowhere.

Nowhere.

Ian

Are you speaking to that guy? Oh, what's the right there? That's all

Aaron

I need. Posse needs a Canadian.

Ian

Yeah. Canadian.

Aaron

So he was our Canadian. He came out of nowhere and was just, like, he was just there the whole time and always a delight. Just a sweet hang. We love a sweet hang.

Ian

You could just do things. You could just, like, introduce yourself and end up as part of a posse.

Aaron

Just you can just become part of a posse. It's that easy.

Ian

So it

Aaron

was it was great. It was a blast. Leah from Laravel was also there, but she was speaking, so she was a little more sparse. Right. But, yeah, I rolled around with Joe t, John, and Hank, and Josiah, and it was just like we had our little crew.

It was awesome.

Ian

So you were there day zero Yep. And day one. Day one. And day two?

Aaron

And day two, I flew out. This is not a move I do very often, but I flew out at, like, 09:30 on day two. Nine 30 PM.

Ian

So you're in the whole thing, though?

Aaron

I was there the whole thing. Okay. But it ended it ended on a Friday, and Saturdays are, child care, as child care droughts, so I had to be home Saturday morning. So, yeah, I was there the whole time. Had a nice parting dinner, with the with the posse, and then grabbed my bags and went to the airport.

It was great. That's amazing. Lot of fun. Taylor was there Taylor was at Dax's party and then was there, I think, just day one and then flew out, for Vegas. He he was part of the posse for a little bit.

He can be an honorary member, but he wasn't he wasn't a full member. So He wasn't a full

Ian

member every minute like the rest of the community.

Aaron

Sorry. Big t. So it was great. I had I had a lot of fun. It was a, it was a very stark difference from Alaricon.

Just, just the vibe was very different. And I think part of that is Miami as a city has its own vibe.

Ian

Right. And they're very into it heavy. Yes.

Aaron

They they the React Miami crew leans into the vibe of Miami. Yeah. I was, I was eating breakfast alone on day two, which is not sad. It's awesome. No.

That's good. I was at a little coffee shop just, like, a block from the venue and eating breakfast alone and just enjoying my freedoms. Joe t and John O'Nolan walked in, and so we all sat down together. And I said to Joe, I was like, you know what I've realized? Miami is just like a very Miami is just like a very sexual city.

And Joe laughed, and he was like, you're just now realizing this? And I'm like, I am. And I've noticed. I'll tell you, Joe. It's very different from Dallas.

And he, like, put his head in his hands with, like, something I'm coming up with on the spot. This is an original insight.

Ian

Yeah. Nobody knows.

Aaron

Nobody knows. Nobody's ever heard this about Miami before. And he thought, you know Oh, man. So it was good. It was a lot of fun.

It's very

Ian

different than

Aaron

Laracon, and I'm very much looking forward to Laracon.

Ian

But Well, Laracon takes on the persona of the founder. I feel like, you know,

Aaron

I think Taylor

Ian

is very chill and Yeah. So Laracon's very chill. Yeah. And and I think that's look. We talked about this before, but the Laracon community is kinda very chill because, like, that's how it's put together, I think Yep.

You know, intentionally. So, yeah. Yeah. But that's good. So everything went well then?

Aaron

Podcasting went well? Podcasting went well. I did, we had a sit down, so we had a full hour podcast with Guillermo, which was fun. Yeah.

Ian

Wow. So how how were were you able to hold up your end of the reactness? Were you on call for doing any reactness, or you were No. You were just just talking. You were going to do more business y stuff or

Aaron

Yeah. Business y stuff, color commentary, you know, that that sort of thing.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

So that was fun. And then I was a part of Terminal Feud. So the coffee shop boys played Family Feud on stage.

Ian

Oh, just

Aaron

tell that. I was a part of that and, went literally head to head with Guillermo. So I don't know. Like Vercel. Yeah.

Vercel's everywhere. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Vercel's everywhere. So they call you know, if you've ever seen Family Feud, they call, like, people out to the middle to, like, hit the button real fast. And so I came out and Guillermo came out, and they had told us backstage, like, hey. Y'all try to, like, hype it up a little bit, you know, boo the other team, that sort of thing. Like, be you know, amp up the bravado.

And so Guillermo and I walked out to the middle, and somehow, we both had the same idea to pretend like we were boxers, and we touched foreheads together, me and Guillermo. So I'm standing on the stage. I'm like, you know, like, forehead to forehead with Guillermo Rauch, and we're, like, beating our chest. And I'm like, what? How am I here?

What is going on?

Ian

Like, how you can just do things?

Aaron

Yeah. Exactly. So it was fun. It was good.

Ian

Did you win?

Aaron

No. We didn't win, actually. We got bamboozled. Yeah. Got really I think it it's I think the terminal boys play fast and loose with, like, the rules of the game and, like, what are the actual answers.

And so they might

Ian

stage at

Aaron

the conference? This is on stage. Yeah. This is, yeah, like, the last thing or maybe second to last thing of the conference. So it was fun.

It was it was a good bit. I'm glad that they did that.

Ian

Interesting way Interesting way to keep people there for day two. You know, a lot of times you lose people on day two. It's like, hey. We got some fun stuff and stuff happening in addition to the talks. That's kind of an interesting idea.

Yep. Family feud. Family feud. Jeez. Okay.

So any other any other tidbits? Anything else we need to know? Any good dinners?

Aaron

Yeah. We had, the last night, the Laravel crew went to a dinner. It was like Korean barbecue.

Ian

I've never been to Korean barbecue, which is crazy. There's tons of meat

Aaron

that work,

Ian

but I never

Aaron

Awesome. I was able to eat, like, 75% of the things that were offered. Wow. It was great.

Ian

That's very good.

Aaron

Good. And it's one of those, we did the Omakase menu

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

Which is, for the people who are not as cultured as I am. It was, where the the chef chooses, and it's so they just bring it out. And they cooked it in a little thing right in front of you. So, you know, they brought out all the meat, and then they would, like, cook it in front of you, and then they would serve it to you. And you got, like, you know, they probably did six different offerings.

And it was great. It was very, very good. There's only one there's one that was like, hey. This is raw meat with caviar on top. And I was like, that sounds delightful for my neighbor and passed it over to Leah.

You know? Yeah. But, yeah, that was probably the best that was probably the best dinner for sure.

Ian

Was this, like, in Miami Miami, or, like, it was in Several

Aaron

people have asked me that.

Ian

There, or is there, like,

Aaron

this is idea.

Ian

Could you see the ocean?

Aaron

I saw the water. Yeah.

Ian

So from the hotel, you were in

Aaron

From the hotel. I saw a little channel with these freaking huge yachts just cruising through. I'm like, how do you where where is all this money coming from?

Ian

I was just talking to somebody about this the other day that, like, probably the most dense amount of wealth I've ever seen in my own eyes was, like, in Miami Bay when we took that boat out there. It's just, like, it's just yacht after yacht after yacht. Huge house. Like, huge house. Like, man, a lot of money.

A lot

Aaron

of money. Lot of money. Lot of money. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't think,

Ian

We gotta get that yacht money.

Aaron

We gotta get that yacht money, man. But all in all, good conference. Very much, very much a party conference. So if that's what you're looking for, go to React Miami next year. That's a lot of fun.

I think

Ian

a party conference. You know? I think, it's good to have all types of conferences. I think there was a point in the past where there was, like, every party was a a party conference or every conference was a party conference, and maybe that wasn't the best. But I think if you have a little more balance, it's like I feel like React Miami is is perfect too because, like, they are making it very clear that this is a party conference.

Right? He's like, you're not showing up there and not aware that people are going to be partying. Right. So then you can self select out if that's not your thing, or if it is your thing, then you can select in, and that's all great. So cool.

I I would that is the one non, like, Laravel conference I'm interested in going to at some point is, React Miami and checking that out even though I'm not a huge partier. But,

Aaron

yeah, yeah.

Ian

Yeah. Maybe next year, it'll happen.

Aaron

Nuno stream live streamed the entire thing. Couple days straight. Like, there was a React Miami livestream, and Nuno livestreamed himself watching the livestream Oh, really?

Ian

For two

Aaron

days straight. Just like, dude, that seems brutal. But he said, he said he'll be going next year. He was like, oh, I I gotta go to this next year. So the Laravel him.

Con contingent might grow.

Ian

Wow. I didn't know Nuno was, like, a React guy. I don't think I've ever heard him talk about React. Yeah. He doesn't use it there, so I guess Yeah.

Aaron

I think with cloud, they've all become a little bit more React y, which which, you know, that's what I was saying last week. The world is moving to React. If it hasn't already, it's going to. It's over. This view is done.

Ian

So how did you what'd you wrap up there with Fusion?

Aaron

Yeah. So I feel very good about it. Okay. Basically, I need to I need to, like, write a post that says it's dead. But I feel very good about it, being dead, and no one has reached out and been like, oh, man.

I was really looking forward to it. So good sign already. Several people

Ian

about it.

Aaron

Yeah. Several kind people reached out and was like, hey. I'm really sorry to hear this. I'm like, oh, thanks. That's nice.

Ian

That's nice.

Aaron

And then a few people have reached out and said, hey. I think fusion is close, but, like, it needs, you know, to fundamentally change, and here are my ideas for changing it. Mhmm. And I'm like, yeah. Most you know, those are pretty good ideas.

Not really something I want to pursue right now, but some people were like, I liked some parts of this, and, it needs to live on in some way. I'm like, sure. Maybe. And I talked to Taylor and Joe at, React Miami, and I asked Joe. I was like, so now that it's dead, you're the inertia guy.

What do you think? And he was like, I think what you did is technically very, very amazing, very impressive. It's just, it's not for me. I was like, great. That's a, you know Yeah.

Great response. Totally what I was intuiting from the people. And I told Taylor I apologized to Taylor. I was like, hey, man. Yeah.

You shake your head. So did he. He was like, I don't care. I was like, hey. I you know, sorry I made this, you know, big spectacle and did this Lyric Honey You thing, and then turns out it didn't work.

And he's like, man, that's fine. I don't care at all. Like, you you did it, and it didn't work. I don't why would I why would I care? That's how it goes.

I'm like, oh, wow. That's interesting.

Ian

That's an interesting take.

Aaron

May maybe I have some inner work to do there. That's interesting. But, yeah, I feel I feel a relief about it for sure.

Ian

That's good. Okay. Yeah. So we're in a good spot there then.

Aaron

We're in a good spot there.

Ian

Yeah. Alright. Sounds good. Well, let's do let's do let's pay the bills.

Aaron

Let's pay the bills, baby.

Ian

A few more things to, to

Aaron

Speaking of conferences.

Ian

Yeah. Yes. Thank you to our friends at Laracon US twenty twenty five, if you can believe that. Laracon is calling all web artisans come to dev to Denver ready to level up, Eve ready to ship. And, you can check them out at Laracon.US.

Is that right? Yeah. Laracon.US. There there was a short link in the description.

Aaron

You can There's a short link in the description, and you should click on it.

Ian

You should click on it so that they know you clicked on it.

Aaron

But if

Ian

you don't click on it, you go to Laracon.US. It'll take you right there. Buy a ticket. We're gonna be there. We're gonna have a party, 80% likely, and it's gonna be great.

We're definitely gonna be there, so that's for sure. And, also, thanks to our friends at native PHP for mobile. Turn your Laravel project into a native mobile app ready for the app stores in minutes with native PHP for mobile. Check out nativePHP.com/mobile. Get a really cool, community project there.

So check that out.

Aaron

IOS and Android now. They're really they're cooking.

Ian

Yeah. I mean, that's yeah. Like, we talked about this before, but I do wanna do a mobile app at some

Aaron

I know you did.

Ian

Some point in my life. I would, like, do a mobile app. Like, all that distribution

Aaron

I know.

Ian

Just there.

Aaron

It's just there.

Ian

A lot of competition out there too, but still distribution. Alright. So on so I'm in my pod on the plane. K? I have the whole row to myself.

It's one cc in the row. K? And it's mine, and I'm in the pod. K? And I'm sitting back.

I'm in the relax mode. I'm leaning back. K? Got my laptop out. You know what I do right then?

Aaron

Tell me. What do you do?

Ian

I put on Aaron Francis.

Aaron

No. That's what I do. You old dog? Aaron Francis. You old dog, what did you watch?

Ian

I watched your, video about how you're laying out the schema

Aaron

and We love we love a schema layout.

Ian

Models and all this stuff.

Aaron

Did you watch the whole thing?

Ian

I watched it's an hour and six minutes or whatever. I watched every minute. What,

Aaron

Ian? What was it? You're doing you're doing too much. Well, what did you think?

Ian

I loved it. Everybody should watch this video. I think it was so, useful, and, I really love the whole, well, what it is is you are going through the database design, basically, and somewhat the code mindset of, the course selling platform. I don't know what you're actually calling this thing, but Yeah.

Aaron

Close enough.

Ian

I don't know who has a name, yes, of of what you're building. As we've talked about on the show, you're building this full store cart system for all the different courses so you can cross sell and you can have free versions and you can have all upsells and whatever, all that stuff. And, yeah. So you went through the whole database design of it, and it was great because I especially love that you start with, like, your kinda naive take. Yep.

And then you we got to see your whole evolution. It's not just like, oh, here's what we came up with. Let's look at this chart. Right? It's like, no.

Let me start with the kind of basics. Then, oh, we need to handle this, then we need to do that, and we got this other thing. And that teal draw app is, like, amazing. And you're an expert in it. It seems like you got it all.

It was all beautiful. Uh-huh. It looked great. You need to do more of this stuff. I don't even know I don't even know what the angle is, but I think that was awesome.

And I think it was, like, it was just, like, I learned stuff for sure, and it was just cool to see the thought process there. So, no, it was

Aaron

Yeah. It's great feedback. Yeah. And it's novel. Right?

Not everybody's doing that.

Ian

No. I mean, I don't know how an hour video performs, but I liked it. Like, I thought it was it needed the hour. I think if you try to do it in less, I don't think it would have been as good. And but the most impressive part is I think it was an hour, and I was never bored.

It wasn't like, oh, we're in the database, you know, dry zone where Yeah. I mean, because you weren't really even taught you didn't get too nerdy on the data, but it was like a beautiful bow it was just you kept it high enough level that's like, this is, like, the business goals

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

And this is what we're trying to do, and this is how we're gonna do it so that it all makes sense when we build it out, blah blah blah. But it wasn't you didn't go all the way down until, like, here's every column

Aaron

and Oh, yeah.

Ian

You know, all that kind of stuff, which obviously you don't you needed to do for yourself at some point, but, or maybe there could be a video that gets deep into some of that.

Aaron

But I

Ian

think for that video, it was great that it was just, like, at a little bit higher level. Yeah. I thought it was awesome.

Aaron

God. That that just made my day. That's amazing.

Ian

More videos. I love Harry Francis videos.

Aaron

That is a ringing endorsement from you. Yeah. I know you're I know you're partial to databases, but that is a ringing endorsement. That that makes me feel really good. I do I did like like, I very much enjoyed doing that video.

Mhmm. And it's a little bit of a different style because I've never done one of those, like, just TL draw only videos. Yeah. And I like it. And I got a lot of really good comments on, like, that kind of aspect of it, which is, like, we need more of these real world problem solving and less of the, like, watch me make a to do app, which is encouraging for me because I don't want to make to do apps.

Right? Because my my thing is not, like, let's explore every new stack as it comes out and ride all the hype waves, which is, like, a viable content strategy for, like, a generalist, but that's not what I wanna do with my life. Like, I wanna just keep doing Laravel and Vue and hopefully making a lot of money. Fingers crossed. So, like, I'm kinda out in the cold in terms of people will be like, hey.

What do you think of the new release of Svelte? And I'm like, no. No freaking clue. Never even looked at it. So the fact that people liked this deep dive into some of the more, like, business y problems as they relate to databases is really encouraging for me because I can do I can do a lot of those.

Ian

I even think just like the format of the TL draw, for a video, I thought was awesome. Like, way better than if you were bringing up your code editor and looking at migrations and, like Right. That kind of thing. You know? And, all

Aaron

of a sudden because that would have been too in the weeds or what?

Ian

No. Not not even the weeds part. I just think visually, like, for like, when you're watching a video and it's, like, code, I just feel like it's I could not sit through an hour of, like, we're looking at every migration and you're talking about the databases, and I'm like, there's you see the columns. All the Yeah. Like, it, like, cleans it up, and you could really see the interconnection because that's what it obviously, you were showing with the arrows and stuff.

And, like, I just thought I kept it at the right level, and visually, it was pleasing, and you could zoom in to get to, like, a detailed part, but then you could zoom out. We could see the whole thing together. Mhmm. And I think that was so effective. And I feel like you could even do that for other types of things where it's just like, I'm drawing the boxes, and I'm making connections.

And, like, that's just a great format for, like, that little bit higher level Mhmm. Discussion of something.

Aaron

Yeah. It's interesting because I agree with what you just said. I think you can do that for other things. Because in my head, when I'm, like, coding, and I'm sure most people are this way, you have some sort of visual of, like, how these classes interact with each other or how this flow is, like, laid out. And it may just be, you know, background jobs that hand off to background jobs.

But in your head, there's, like, that diagram exists in your head even if it's just code. And so having the ability to quickly and aesthetically draw out those diagrams, I think, is pretty good. Yeah. I think I'm gonna adopt that more moving forward.

Ian

I think so. I think you could find a spot for that to, like, fold it in places because it it was very effective, I feel like, in, communicating that over the video and being able to, like, zoom in, zoom out, see the big picture, drill down in. And then, yeah, you could you did hop over to code a few times a little bit, but, so you could obviously just go back and forth where it makes sense. Yeah. No.

I dug it. Now I gotta look into this tool. I'm like, I need this tool. I know. I need to do this for my own stuff.

Like, I gotta get out

Aaron

of here. You know what's funny? This tool is is called TL draw. TLdraw.com. No sponsor, but we we do love them.

TL draw, any very first, publish your work increases your luck, that very first talk that I gave, Yell Draw was one of the examples in that talk. And so you can go back. The GitHub universe one isn't recorded at Laracon Nashville. Actually, I don't Laracon EU that year, I think, was not recorded. So you can go to Laracon Nashville talk and go find an example.

Like, there's a middle section of that talk where I talk about examples, and one of them is TL draw. And the thing I said about TL draw is, you know, this guy is so excited about this SVG whiteboard thing that he has, like, amassed this following of people who are really excited about it, and now he's able to go full time on it.

Ian

Oh, wow.

Aaron

And my comment to about that was, I have no idea what his tool is. I have no no need for it. I will probably never use it, but I am, like, following along because he is very excited. I said those things out of my mouth. And then That's so funny.

Weeks ago, I was like, man, I I wonder if TL draw is good for this. And so, like, four years later, after I started following this guy, I'm like, oh, this is actually the best tool in the world. How funny. So, yeah, marketing attribution is hard because now I've I've converted, and it was like, well, I started following the guy four years ago. How do you track that?

Ian

That is funny. I didn't realize it was, like, a guy. Like and that was, like, that small thing. You know?

Aaron

Yeah. It was. I think he just recently raised $10,000,000.

Ian

See that now. Yeah. And it's kinda weird because, you can use it for free, and the watermark always has to be there. Mhmm. If you're a business using TL draw SDK in production, what the heck's the SDK?

Aaron

So his whole I think his whole business model is, there's, like, a free version that you can come and use as a consumer. But if you want to embed something like this in your app, then you can use his SDK, and you have, like, you know, many thousands of hours of work already done.

Ian

Interesting. Okay. Because it was like the only pricing on here is $6,000 a year. And I was like, that seems a little pricey for a drawing app, but that's not it's like to embed this in your product.

Aaron

You'll you'll appreciate this. Somewhere on his pricing, and I'm not looking at it, but somewhere on there is, like, the prices will say a thousand dollars a month, and then the next price over is, like, $2,000 a month. And the only difference is you need to talk to us. So for like, if you need to talk to legal or you need us to sign a contract or whatever, it's an extra thousand dollars a month or something like that. And I thought

Ian

He's he's changed that, because the pricing now is just a $6,000, and it's you have to contact them even to get that.

Aaron

Man, it was so good that he had that on there. Let me see.

Ian

Yeah. Not they raised the money. They're probably trying to

Aaron

probably so.

Ian

Do it a little differently. That is that's sort of interesting, though. You can embed this. That's crazy.

Aaron

Isn't that cool?

Ian

I feel like I wanna do something with this. What can I what can

Aaron

I do

Ian

with the product? Can I do I need to have a drawing thing embedded into my app for?

Aaron

And he's gone a long way. He's gone a long way on AI stuff. And so, like, you can you can actually use this to, like, build out kinda, like, AI workflows, basically.

Ian

Really?

Aaron

Yeah. It's very interesting. I don't I don't fully understand how that works, but on Twitter, I'm always seeing him, like, draw a box and then an arrow to another box, and it, like, flows through and does, like, an AI process. Like, what in the world? Oh, yeah.

They totally changed this pricing. Oh, that's too bad.

Ian

Interesting. Yeah. Right? I like this tool. Because I I was actually, there was a couple things I wanted to, like, sketch out some ideas, and I was gonna use whimsical, which I know people Uh-huh.

Sometimes like. But I think I'm gonna try still draw instead because this looks really good.

Aaron

There you go. And that's how it's done.

Ian

Look at that. Influencing. YouTubers using it. That's the dream.

Aaron

Mhmm. I know.

Ian

Great. What other videos do you have in the queue for us? You got anything coming? Not one more.

Aaron

One. I've got one coming. I've got a, sponsored video coming out soon. So Yeah.

Ian

I haven't heard about sponsored videos in a while.

Aaron

We got one coming. And then I will probably I will probably do a similar long form video on that thing I talked about last week, dead drop, the command. And I have decided, you know what? I'm just not gonna make it into a package. I'm just I'm just over it.

Okay. You know? No

Ian

breathers. Open source for

Aaron

Yeah. Take a little take a little breather. Let's let's make some let's make some money instead of

Ian

Oh, baby. I got that.

Aaron

Away for free. Yeah. So, yeah, I That's a

Ian

good thing too. People are gonna be like, the security thing and other things.

Aaron

I need the configuration. Yeah. I I have this

Ian

gonna be.

Aaron

You know, VPS. I'm like, I don't understand anything that you're trying to do here.

Ian

You can just do that anytime anyway. You don't

Aaron

So anyone that's listening, feel free to just run with it. That's great. It's all yours. Yeah. So, yeah, I've got that.

And then, we've got a couple I've got a couple other ideas. I'm trying to pick up the cadence. So, and that was one thing with the the schema video was, like, that is the video that I wanted to make. And it was easy to make, and it felt good, and I'm gonna do more videos like that. Ones that I just want to make.

I think there's a easy trap to fall into where it's, like, analysis paralysis of what, you know, what does the algorithm want, what is currently hot, like, what has never been done before. And you know what? I'm not doing that. I'm just gonna make videos that I want to make, and we'll see what happens.

Ian

Yeah. That's what got you here. Right? I feel like, you know, that's, you don't need to occasionally, there might be something really obvious that's like, we really should cover this, and you'll do it. But, like, yeah, I don't think I think for most of the time, he's like, what are you interested in?

Those are the ones that are gonna come out best. You know?

Aaron

Like, think

Ian

so. Yeah. Like, I feel like that video, you were obviously, like, into it, and you had thought it through like, the actual problem you had thought through, and that came through very clearly. And you knew what you were doing and why you were doing it, and you had good advice embedded in there, which was cool. And then the presentation was great.

So, yeah, I think it seems like the plan is, and if you're interested in it, then the audience is more likely to be interested in it. Whereas if you're just, like, floating through because you feel like you have to do it, probably not the best.

Aaron

And then I just become another if I'm just doing what is hot, I just become another talking head YouTuber, and I don't there's no part of me that wants to exist in that universe.

Ian

Yeah. Like, there's, what you do it does work, but it's also, like, for the person doing it, it's like, the guy I follow, like, several, like, photography channels. Right? And it's like, whenever, like, a new lens comes out. Right?

It's like everybody gets the lens, and then everybody does the review of the lens. And it's like, they're all, like, the same, and they're all just like, you know, okay. I gotta go somewhere interesting to try to, like, show you this lens, but I only have one day. So I, like, just, like, did a few you know, it's just like and they're all like that, and it's like, I don't know. Yeah.

So I think I think that's the right play.

Aaron

Yeah. So stay tuned. There will be more.

Ian

Alright. You have another item on here. What's up with this?

Aaron

Alright. So I know that you listened to the Jordan Dahl episode, but you remember none of it. So I'll I'll give you I'll give you a little refresher here. I was at a restaurant. You know?

Right. I was at a restaurant many, many weeks ago, few months ago, met this, twin dad. And this this is a this is a thing I do quite often. If I see somebody out with twins, it's a % I'm gonna talk to them. Twins are an insulin pump.

I'm basically like, hey. What's the deal? So I talked to this guy and, you know, we talked for a little bit, then they leave. And then I'm there again a few weeks later. So now, you know, maybe two weeks ago, and the guy comes up to me, and he's like, hey.

You're the twin dad. Right? Yeah. Can I get your number? I'm having, you know, a hard time making friends.

Just moved here. Told Jordan bravest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Right. Is a is a man saying I would like to be friends. Like Yeah.

Ian

That's great.

Aaron

For you, guy. The So got his number. And so that guy is, at, like, a dinner restaurant. I also take the I take the big kids to breakfast every Saturday morning. Without fail, me and the big kids go into breakfast every Saturday morning, always to the same place, obviously.

Come on. What would you expect from me? Yeah. And there's another twin dad that does the same. So at this other restaurant, there's this guy probably my age.

She's got two, I wanna say they're, like, two year old boys. Mhmm. And so it's him and his boys and then his dad. So it's, like, really cool. It's, like, you know, three generations of men of this family, and the wife is staying at home with a new baby they just had.

And so it's kind of the exact same situation. Right?

Ian

Mhmm.

Aaron

And so he and I have talked a whole bunch of times. So I, like, a week ago, walked up and was like, hey, man. I met this other twin dad. He's, like, looking for some friends. Can I get your number?

And we, like, go out and just, like, get a beer together. And he's like, I would love that. That would be awesome. So I got this guy's number. Right?

So then, I think it was yesterday. No. Yesterday was Monday. I think it was Sunday. So Saturday or Sunday, I'm running an errand with, the babies, and I'm, like, at Target doing a pickup as one does, here in the big city.

And I see I see this couple walking with what are obviously twins. And so I roll up. You know, I'm on my way out. I roll up in the minivan, nonthreatening, roll my window down, and I realize I've met this guy before. I met this I met this guy at Micosina.

Apparently, I'm at restaurants all the time. So are other twin dads. I've met this guy. Alright. And so I roll up and roll down my window, and I'm like, oh, hey.

It's good to see you. How old? Oh, two years. Oh, I got the, you know, I got the 16 olds with me. And he's like, where are the other ones?

And I'm like, okay. So I've definitely met this guy. Yeah. I know this guy.

Ian

He knows your story.

Aaron

Yes. And I think this guy used to live in the neighborhood that we lived in when we were renting. And so I feel like, I I know you. I know your wife. We've we've talked before.

And so I gave him the pitch. I was like, hey, man.

Ian

Starting to meet up.

Aaron

Starting to meet up. I was like, here's the deal. Me and these two other dads twin dads are gonna go get beers on Friday. Can I get your number, and do you wanna come? And he's like, yeah.

I would love that. So in a few days, three days,

Ian

four days

Aaron

from now, me and three other twin dads are gonna go to this restaurant and have a beer and just you know, we're gonna start the twin dads commiserations slash support group.

Ian

Dude, this is amazing.

Aaron

How about that? Right? Isn't that the wildest thing?

Ian

Incredibly on brand too. It's like you can just do things. You can just start a twin dad meetup, Brandon.

Aaron

Why not?

Ian

Accident. Like

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

That's cool. So every all everybody can make it. All three of them are

Aaron

So I know that the original two can make it. Yeah. Then the other one, we've already got the date and time set, so we'll see if he can make it. But, hopefully, yeah, hopefully, there will be, you know, four of us. It's this little meetup.

Ain't that cool?

Ian

Yeah. Where are you going?

Aaron

Just a little local it's called Shady's. Just a little local local burger spot where all the all the families go.

Ian

Nice.

Aaron

But, yeah, it'll be

Ian

You can't go to the family spot. You don't have the kids with you. Or do you have the kids with you?

Aaron

We won't. No. No. No. No.

Ian

That's post bedtime.

Aaron

Kids. Post bedtime. But it's one of

Ian

those like somewhere without without kids.

Aaron

Yeah. Maybe. It's one of those real casual spots where everybody everybody in the neighborhood goes.

Ian

It's not the big commitment

Aaron

Right.

Ian

Wise or whatever too. Yeah. Fancy restaurant or whatever.

Aaron

And you can kinda roll in, and there are tables out on, like, a covered patio. It's just like Okay. It's an easy it's an easy spot to go to, and it's very, very close to everybody. So, you know, you gotta start low pressure on a first date. You know, you gotta keep it yeah.

You don't wanna go somewhere fancy and do the whole thing. It's just like

Ian

Oh, yeah.

Aaron

Come come when in whatever you're wearing, we're just going to Shady's. We'll have a beer. Maybe we'll have two. We'll see where the night goes, and then that's it. And that's that's a good start.

Ian

Wow. I love this idea. That's amazing.

Aaron

So if you're a twin dad in Dallas

Ian

There you go.

Aaron

Start going to the restaurants, and you might make it in to this little circle. I may see you somewhere and be like, hey. Those are twins, aren't they? Listen. Let me get your number.

Ian

Just bring your twins everywhere with you in case you happen to run across Aaron. That's

Aaron

exactly right.

Ian

Yeah. That is cool. I mean, now you have something to actually say to people too because it's like, I we have this

Aaron

group. Gotta have a place. Easy intro. Yeah. Somewhere to invite people to is a pretty it's a pretty big, like, necessity.

If you're trying to if you're trying to start a thing, you need to have a standing like, you need to have the nugget. Right? You need to have the, hey. I'm doing this at this time at this place with these. Even if it's one other person, you should come, and then it's less it's less pressure for the new person.

So, yeah, having having a a nucleus is pretty important.

Ian

Wow. Well, that's awesome, man. That's great. I think I've never done anything like that. I should do something like that.

Aaron

Yeah. It'll be fun. It's it's funny because it's, like, a very easy it's a very easy little community. Oh, you're a twin dad? I'm a twin dad.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

We'll start with that. Like, we've got stuff to talk about. That's fine. Like, we can just start there. And so that that's super helpful.

Ian

It is also very, like, inherently a small niche, but also a niche that people self identify with Mhmm. Strongly. So it's, like, got both those kinda angles where, like, yeah, it's like a logical thing. It's not like everybody's not included. Not everybody can do it.

Right? But also the people who do have this situation are all very much aware that they're in this situation and, I'm sure have similar war stories to

Aaron

Yeah. A little a little bit of, like, shared suffering to bind us. Like, oh, man. Oh, we gotta get a beer. You guys making it?

Oh, man. Let's get together. Like, yeah. That's great. That's what we want.

Ian

Exactly. Oh, man. Just totally changed the subject. But the cab driver I had k? I'm getting in the cab to go home.

Cab driver gets out. They're doing messing with the bag. Like, the the cab stand guy and the cab driver are, like, having a quick chat. And one of them said the other one, what's the good word? I was like, woah.

You were ready. Yes. Ready. I was I was in the back. I couldn't even participate, but I heard it in the wild.

So I thought that was cool.

Aaron

What's the good word? A common expression amongst humans. Yes. I love that. Oh, boy.

Did the guy respond with anything?

Ian

I think he did. I couldn't hear the response, unfortunately. But I love the responses. Yeah. I woulda liked to have the response.

But Ah,

Aaron

it's too bad.

Ian

Alright. So you gotta now you gotta do a website. You gotta do all you gotta take it too far. You gotta have all kinds of stuff for your four person meetup.

Aaron

No. This is this is underground only. This is if you know, you know. This is punk rock, baby. Well,

Ian

you have to report back Monday. We'll hear how you, meet out on your first date with the crew. That'll be I will.

Aaron

It's gonna be a lot of fun.

Ian

Alright, man. No. Do we have anything else we need to cover here?

Aaron

Nope. Not on my side.

Ian

Alright. I think we're good. Well, thank you, everybody. Check us out, mostlytechnical.com. Make sure you subscribe.

Follow us on all the social media thingies, and we will see you next week.

Aaron

See you. Bye.