Talking About Liquid

Aaron

Hello? Hello. We're back, baby.

Ian

That's the two of us like it's supposed to be.

Aaron

Man, there's there was a question last week as to whether or not I was going to survive at all, so I'm glad to be here today.

Ian

I know that feeling. Oh, man. How'd you make out? You were you were sick. You were throwing up.

Aaron

Oh, dude. I got freaking wrecked. Just absolutely destroyed. Sunday Sunday night, you know, Jennifer had it, I think, on Friday, and then Simon and Amelia got it Saturday through Sunday. And that Sunday was when Amelia threw up and a little bit splashed on my leg, and I was like, I gotta cut this leg off.

You

Ian

like, I got you have the such the cutest tweet. You were like, oh, I cleaned it up, and now I'll be fine. And, like, I'm like, dude, he's a dead man walking.

Aaron

Yeah. I I sprayed it down. Of course, we have a bottle of isopropyl alcohol because we have kids. And so I just, like I saw it, and I was like, alright. Here we go.

And it just straight onto the skin. I was like, I'm not letting this thing touch me. And then so that was, like, you know, 06:30. When I was putting the kids down, she, like, totally just threw up everywhere. And then at about nine, I thought, you know, my stomach kinda hurts.

This is not this isn't great. And then 02:00 two o'clock is when, everybody came knocking. And, dude, from two to, I think, nine in the morning, I probably had seven different visits to to the toilet to throw up. And each time, I felt like I was I was, like, exercising demons. Like, it was coming from it was coming from the soles of my feet all the way up.

Oh my gosh. And, Jennifer told me later that, she, like, she went and slept on the couch after she ensured that I was, you know, living. She's like, I can't I can't listen to that. She told me later that she called her mom, and she's like, so when when dad throws up, is it is it pretty violent? Aaron's Aaron's pretty violent in his pockets.

Oh, god. I was like, oh, it was the absolute worst. I do not wish it upon my worst enemy. Maybe upon the worst enemy, but not upon normal normal enemies. It was bad.

Ian

Did you have stuff coming up to all of them, or did you get to that point where it was just driving you

Aaron

to that

Ian

point equally forceful?

Aaron

No. It's, you know, this is a family show, but it got to the point where it was just, like, it was just bile. It was just, like, stomach acid. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Awful.

Ian

Yeah. I have to say, I had that recently ish with the with the gallbladder stuff. At the end of the gallbladder stuff, like, a month before it got taken out and before I changed how I was eating to so I didn't feel like that. Yeah. I had one of those nights where it was exactly like that, and it was just like yeah.

From your feet up. My but the kids, my my wife was like, this doesn't sound Oh, man. Doesn't sound normal. I'm like, I don't know. I, like, pulled a muscle or something and, like

Aaron

All my little all my little muscles around me. Something. Yeah. So bad. Dark muscle for sure.

Ian

But Mine was at least I was I was done by midnight. Just waking up at two to throwing up. That's

Aaron

man.

Ian

That's the worst. That's just like you'll go to bed. You're like, alright. I'll wake up in the morning and deal with more kids puking. Fine.

Whatever. Then you get it at 2AM. Not good.

Aaron

Totally wrecked. Totally wrecked. But good news is you had a great roundtable. You had a great roundtable.

Ian

Roundtable was fun. We business started it up a bit.

Aaron

You did.

Ian

I I look back because when you messaged that you were sick, I was like, have we ever even been on the same show? And, like, I was like, since, like, July, we've been on the show twice together, I think.

Aaron

I know. I know. It's crazy.

Ian

So funny. It's just barely been

Aaron

all this time. Caleb Porzio hour since July.

Ian

We just let him take over. Whatever. Like but, yeah, no. Roundtable was fun. It was cool having, John on as the new new Mhmm.

Friend of the show and somebody who actually knows the space and talked to WordPress stuff. What's your take on the WordPress stuff?

Aaron

Well, I wanna do take on static stuff before we go on to the clown show. Yeah. Give us your take. My take on WordPress. Shoot.

Ian

I'm sure you were yelling at the show. Right? You're like, you wanted to get in there while you were throwing it up. You're like, if I can get in there

Aaron

It was so great. About calling in, but I didn't wanna discuss our viewers. I thought Caleb's, points at the very end were almost perfect.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

So I I do I do think go all in on Laravel. There's nobody that's using statimek that's that's not, like, at least Laravel adjacent.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

And this this mid this weird middle ground of, like, antlers and not like That kind of stuff is

Ian

a weird Yeah.

Aaron

It's like just, like, fully embrace Laravel and make that part a lot easier. So was on board with that. Obviously, on board with single SQLite file. Think that's great. Super portable.

I think the open question there is, like, who does he wanna target? Is it is it developers or end users? Because if it's developers and they're like, oh, I want to write my markdown and, you know, my Versus code, it's like, okay, well, that you have to you have to have flat file at that point. But I thought, yeah, get away get away from the flat file, because I've tried I've tried static, and the flat file stuff kind of threw me off because it is it is like a proprietary format unto itself. You know?

It's got the front matter, which is, like, all of the attributes, and I'm I'm always looking at it like, what do I put here? And so so I don't super love that. The thing I thought Caleb was wrong on sorry, Caleb. And I think he's right, actually, but I think Jack is wrong. I think Jack should do cloud hosting for sure.

Yeah. 100. And Caleb's point was like, Jack, you don't wanna do it. Don't do it. So maybe Caleb's wrong by proxy.

Jack is wrong. That's what he should do. That's where the money is.

Ian

I I agree. I think you cut off some kind of story there. Even if it's like what we did for a long time, it's just have, like, a partner who really does it. And, like, just like you slap your name on it, you split the money, whatever you come up with something like that. But, like, I do think in this day and age, and I'll have some type of either first party or you build out the ecosystem and there's some hosting story, even forget you making money on it directly.

It's just even like Right. That there's a place to go that you know knows how to host this and has the server set up correctly, and you don't have to deal with that as the customer. I think Mhmm. You would think has to be pretty beneficial. Yeah.

Aaron

Even if even if Jack's ultimate goal is, license sales and static adoption, cloud hosting gets you towards that goal for sure.

Ian

Yeah. For sure. That's kind of what I think too. So it also just lends air of like stability and reliability and like people are out there actually using this because there's a hosting thing. If you have your own, that's sort of one thing.

But if there's other, if you just have partner hosting companies that are doing it, it kinda gives you that, like, ecosystem vibe of like, oh, there's other people whose businesses are invested in this and all that stuff. So I think if,

Aaron

if Fadeloper wasn't if he hadn't been scooped by Laravel Cloud, that would be a great partnership. That'd be a great duo. The Yeah. This developer runs cloud hosting with the blessing of static with some sort of business arrangement. Like, that's the dream right there.

Ian

This was a business idea I had some time ago. Cause like when we were starting to build our own hosting stuff, it's like basically every PHP app is sort of the same. Right. And like there's at that point, you know, ten or fifteen years ago, there was like a lot of PHP apps that people just sold, like a satanic or how help spot was or whatever. And it's like, none of them had hosting.

And it's like, well, maybe we should build the, like, generic, but not really generic, still, like, tailored to your PHP app, but, you know, hosting thing. But I didn't wanna do the hosting either. So for that regard, I get it from Jack's perspective. Now it's probably too late to have that kind of, like, in terms of, like, building a business for that maybe totally specifically. But, yeah, there are still apps out there that need this stuff.

And I don't know. Maybe, like, Laravel Cloud will have some kind of story. Like, it's not gonna probably be specific for Tamic, but or Datomic or however you say it. But, like, maybe they have an API and you could kind of, like, make it work. Basically what we've done for HubSpot, but all custom stuff.

Yeah. Like, so you don't have to actually set up the server and all that stuff. It's just like Mhmm. Maybe I can create a server with the API and then I can go into it and, you know, install the stuff I need and put static code on there and what, you know, get it configured at that next layer up without doing the base layer and also without being responsible for like the server itself and everything. Right.

Right. Securing it and the networking and all this stuff. That's interesting. So that could be kind of cool if that

Aaron

could be kind of cool.

Ian

But there ends up being it's tricky because like HubSpot is a little more like satanic than other than a regular SaaS app would be in that, like, we let customers do weird stuff, just like he has customers doing weird stuff, whether it's plugins or messing with the file system or having your data stored on the file system, whatever. And there is like just a lot of customization. Like our cloud deployment stuff is not standard. Like there's all these exceptions and special cases and we let the customer do all this weird stuff. And that means we have to handle all these other edge cases.

And so it does get complicated rather quickly versus just your more straightforward sort of SaaS app. But I do I do agree that feels like there should be something there, even if it's just like a partnership maybe to start.

Aaron

That's interesting about the Laravel cloud thing. You could see that playing out many different ways, not just with static. You could have Right.

Ian

I mean hold on to the whole thing on top, potentially.

Aaron

Yeah. You could build you could build a WP Laravel, you know? You could have your whole WordPress hosting on that. That's interesting.

Ian

I think Taylor said they plan on eventually having an API, but it didn't sound like it was coming day one. So

Aaron

Yeah. And that's the other question is, like, if you build out, you know, if you build out some sort of static white label thing on top of it, do they end up just adding a one one button, like, create a layer of cloud static deploy? It's like Yeah. Maybe. Possibly.

Ian

That's still different, though, because at the end of the day, people are paying for, like, the service. You know what I mean? Like, to me, it's like the cloud hosting part is like, we're gonna also upgrade it for you. We're gonna make sure it all everything works right. Like, these, like, push to deploy generic things or bind.

Aaron

Just kinda templates, I guess.

Ian

Yeah. It's just like, yeah. Okay. It works initially. But like, what about two years from now when

Aaron

good luck, have a whole

Ian

thing different? Right. Yeah. They're not helping you with anything. Right.

There's no help. There's just like, yeah, you push that button two years ago. You're on your own after that. So kind of feel like that's not that big of a thing. And the real thing you're paying for is like the expertise and specialization of this platform of this, you know, for this product.

And then also support around it when you have a problem, like somebody there who knows how it works and will is willing to help you with presumably, Laravel Cloud wouldn't be willing to do that. So So

Aaron

here's the move. Here's the move, Jack. Reach out to Taylor and get early access to that API, man.

Ian

There you go. Get it Get

Aaron

early access to the API, then you have some sort of command and control lightweight server that you guys run the the static crew runs. Right. And you're continually, you know, phoning Laravel Cloud and saying, like, hey. What version of static are these people on? Alright.

Let's go ahead and, you know, issue an update job and all of that kinda stuff. But Yeah. They managed all the infrastructure, the routing, all of the servers, all of that stuff. That's the main

Ian

How about this? Even if there's no API. I just love this hacky idea. I don't think you'd have to do this, but you love a good hacky idea. Right?

Aaron

I love a good hacky idea. I built a wall in an office.

Ian

And so you do this little, hosting platform on top of Laravel Cloud. Right? And even if they don't have an API Hell, yeah. Just use, like, a dusk like thing. Right?

And you just go in there. You just build your own API where you're just talking about. In there pushing the buttons. Be like, okay.

Aaron

Browser is the API.

Ian

Yes. The browser's API. Push the button. Fill this form field in. Yep.

There you go.

Aaron

Done. Yep. That's the move for sure.

Ian

I like it. Nothing could go wrong there.

Aaron

No. No. Not at all. That's yeah. I like that.

Good idea.

Ian

Very good.

Aaron

We should save that for ourselves. We should do it in our spare time, Ian.

Ian

Yeah. We got lots of spare time. Speaking of

Aaron

spare time before we get to WordPress, you're doing a side project with Flex. What are you building? Come on. Don't downplay. What are you building?

Nah.

Ian

I don't know. That's it. Wait. Wait. Wait.

No. Not gonna have time to build anything. That's the thing. I get I get this ideas. I'm like, okay.

I'll make it happen. And then I realized that there's no time. So You

Aaron

can't make you can't make anything happen. What are you gonna do? You got no time.

Ian

You got no time. Tell me what's

Aaron

what's the idea? I don't wanna say it until I

Ian

I didn't do any Didn't

Aaron

you have an idea a while back? And you were like, oh, it's a great idea. Let's tell everyone except Aaron so I can tell Aaron on

Ian

the show,

Aaron

and then I never nobody ever told me.

Ian

That idea was terrible. What that we're not doing an idea. No. It was a terrible idea. This idea is not is not I don't even know if it's an idea.

It's like, I'm not saying anything to anybody until I do, like, Laravel new. I haven't even done Laravel new. Oh, man. This is the

Aaron

duality of Ian. You are both business dad and a degenerate indie hacker. You're like, I got an idea. No. It's a terrible idea.

Oh, I got an idea. No. It's a terrible idea.

Ian

Well, it's just that the real world, though, is the truth. So it's like, for two seconds, it's like the real world doesn't exist. Right? And I'm like, oh, this is gonna be cool to build it. And then it's like, well, I have all these PR things I was looking at.

I have I have the marketing stuff I'm trying to do. I have my parents are moving out of their house. I'm helping them. Like, I have all this stuff going with kids, kid in college, those stuff. And I got hacked open three weeks ago, like, all this stuff.

And I'm like, I don't have any time. When do I have time? I have no time. And No time. I'm not gonna give up the, like, little bit of, like, recreational time I have to, like, hack on some code thing that's never gonna make me any money and just

Aaron

That would be that attitude.

Ian

I know.

Aaron

It's unbelievable. You're no man. You're no man. You're no man has has invaded into your very core.

Ian

I will say if I actually get anywhere on this, which is highly unlikely, I'm definitely gonna talk about it on the show. It will be a thing I talk about in the show, and I will we will go through it, and it'll be a fun little adventure for us. But

Aaron

You know what? We've had a few dead ends on the show. Why don't you just tell us now? And if it doesn't come to fruition, it doesn't come to fruition.

Ian

But that's yeah. Then here okay. So here's the thing. If I say it out loud. Right?

Yeah. If I say it out loud, it's like one of these, like, a a horror movie. Right? Like, if I say it out loud, then it's real. Then I'll feel the obligation to work on it or do something with it.

People are gonna message me and say, that's a cool idea. You should do it. Mhmm. Then it becomes that whole thing. And I don't know if I'm ready for that thing.

I I do wanna gonna

Aaron

ask you, hey, Ian. Where did this What's

Ian

going on with that thing?

Aaron

Hey. I would love to do it. And you're like, come on, man.

Ian

Whereas my random when I just say I have an idea, nobody ever follows up for me because they're like, whatever. Like, he's probably doing it anyway, and I'm not doing it. I'm probably not doing it. Right? I haven't the time to

Aaron

do it.

Ian

I don't think.

Aaron

Live live a little, Ian.

Ian

If I could carve out a couple hours a week that I could work on it, then

Aaron

I'm going

Ian

to do it.

Aaron

What do you what do you how do you have to ask?

Ian

I I thought there's still other priorities. That's the thing. I mean, I could do whatever I want. Sure. But then, like, other stuff doesn't happen.

Aaron

Yeah. But I'm telling you, you can do whatever you want. It's so awesome.

Ian

There is so much weird stuff. We should have a whole episode on weird shit Ian does all day because the mouth is

Aaron

like, I would love

Ian

that episode.

Aaron

That's hysterical episode.

Ian

Here's a sneak peek. I'll just give you one example on Friday. Jamie, who like does the books and the company and like operation type stuff. My wife, she's been dealing with this thing for, like, weeks where a customer in Europe needs this form from the IRS that states that we are an American company in some fashion. And so you're already

Aaron

making your head, right? It's it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Ian

This has been like already a multi week endeavor. I had to get on the phone with the IRS on Friday. Some crazy person at the IRS was asking me weird questions. I answered the weird question. You know, it's the whole also game.

Jamie tries calling them. They're like, no, we gotta talk to, to the owner. So she just puts me on. They say, are you the owner? I say, yes, I'm the owner.

I could be anybody. I could literally be anybody. Right. Fine. But I just say I'm the owner and that makes you the owner.

Okay, great. And so we go through this whole dog and pony show for twenty minutes answering questions this thing, then there's other form we gotta fill out. That's gotta go back to them. So this is there. It's a whole hour.

Right? Just on, like, one customer's need for this weirdo IRS form. That's the thing that has to be done every year. European. You went every year.

It's like crazy. So, like, there's so is that every day there's, like, four of those things. And it's just like just all this weird stuff when you have a company that's, like, this old with, like, all these diverse customers And I got your

Aaron

I got your answer. I got your answer. I'm ready I'm ready to business dad the business dad.

Ian

Oh, shit.

Aaron

You gotta hire a Linda.

Ian

A Linda? But see, look at this. So my point, that's not even like that. They needed to talk to me. Like, Jamie was trying to deal with it.

They they couldn't deal

Aaron

with it. No. No. The IRS, like, the guy's on the team land. They needed they needed you to approve that they male voice.

Ian

They didn't yeah. No. She was talking to me.

Aaron

They needed a husband or father on the phone.

Ian

I need a towel.

Aaron

She's I need a towel.

Ian

You could pretend to be me.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. But, Theo, I'll tell you, a lot of it is stuff not like that. It's not I have like, the employees do handle a lot of, like, day in, day out stuff. That's, like, stuff other people can handle. Like, I do have employees already, but, like

Aaron

Interesting point.

Ian

Just other onery type things. Is it impossible to hand them off? Probably not, but I don't know. A lot of things feel, like, borderline impossible. Maybe not totally impossible.

Obviously, at some point, you could be big enough. You just have a COO whose job it is to do all the weird stuff or whatever. Fine.

Aaron

That's what you need. You need a Tom. You need a bulldog.

Ian

Tom. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron

That's what you need.

Ian

The Laravel Tom. But,

Aaron

You know, Caleb has this book that he hasn't read called buy back your time, so maybe you should look at that book. I'm borrow

Ian

it from him. I've bought back my time. I have five employees. Like, they're out there. They're they're working, but, like, there's still just other weird stuff that goes on, man.

There's a lot of weird stuff, but I agree. I wanna build something.

Aaron

Weird stuff.

Ian

I don't know what's gonna happen. I have some other code stuff. I still have to finish on in some help spot stuff that that so I can fully hand off a few other things, to the new developer who's, you know, been getting on board here and everything. So that's another thing holding me up. I don't really wanna have two code worlds going on.

If I can get

Aaron

Right.

Ian

HubSpot stuff fully over to him, then I'll feel like, alright. If I wanna have a little side adventure for, like, you know, nights and weekends, five hours a week, and, you know, be fun for the show. And, like, I got already a little, like, idea for some stickers and stuff. I got some stuff. I got some stuff.

Aaron

An idea for stickers. You got a little bit

Ian

of stickers. I got an only domain. It's basically domain driven development. It's basically like, I need an idea for flux. Right?

I wanna build something with flux. So what's so so what domains do I have that I can work backwards into a product? And that's like, okay. I got a really good domain, and that would be a cool product that's sort of in my realm of expertise. So, you know, we'll see.

Aaron

You know, that's a that's a completely viable way to start a business is domain driven development.

Ian

What could go wrong with that?

Aaron

That that is is act that's what the guy Peter Askew has done on Twitter. I think his handle is Searchbound. He, he's a domainer, and what he does is he finds, he finds good, like, solid domains and then decides, like, to build a business around it. So he has I think he bought ranch jobs. I think one of his big ones is ranch jobs, and he has a job board.

His biggest one, I think, is Vidalia onions. And he has, like, a like, they they ship onion like, actual onions in the real world, not like NFTs or something. Like, they ship onions. I think he owns birthdayparties.com for a minute, but he's always he's a good follow on Twitter. You should follow him.

But he's always tweeting out interesting, interesting domain opportunities. One came up the other day that's was, hawaiianshirts.com, and I was like, am I doing this? Am I starting a Hawaiian shirt business? This seems awesome.

Ian

Oh, yeah. Well, it's awesome. You can do it. It's just an SEO play because, like, the the the keyword being in the domain is extremely powerful for SEO. So if you can get the good the good domains, then

Aaron

that When I when I got Streetcasting.com and he replied something like great domain, I was like, I'm gonna

Ian

make it. I'm gonna make it.

Aaron

This is it. Because the trick, of course, the trick, of course, is being able to build something legit behind the amazing domain.

Ian

Right. You still deliver.

Aaron

Yeah. So but if you can, you have a huge leg up because you have

Ian

the .com.

Aaron

So tell us the domain. What's the domain? Tell us the domain.

Ian

They'll give away the whole product. No kidding.

Aaron

Dilling me. I'm I was like, getting blood from a turnip over here.

Ian

No. Yeah. They don't need this. They want

Aaron

to know. Oh. Yeah. Except at some point, you have to deliver on the suspense. Like, the last one just died on the line.

Yeah.

Ian

I haven't delivered yet. I don't plan on delivering.

Aaron

That's unbelievable.

Ian

Maybe I'll deliver. Who knows?

Aaron

Okay. It's you're you're

Ian

you're gonna get my wife moved. Imagine moving your parents. It's a

Aaron

I will not imagine that. I'm not imagining moving. There's a lot

Ian

going on. There's all these moving parts. My, my super glue just fell off this week. So my, my stitches, my, you know what? They don't have stitches anymore.

They cut you open and they just super glue together.

Aaron

I mean context. I got it. No. Yeah.

Ian

Like, yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. So

Ian

they actually do stitch you underneath, but on the surface, there's no stitches anymore. It's just super glue. And that fell off. That was nice.

Aaron

Was that a big that was a big moment. So now

Ian

you're gonna do it one

Aaron

more time. Now now you're a little bit more freed up. Yeah. I'm not kidding. You don't have to babysit the super glue so much anymore.

Ian

Exactly. I'm almost done with that that whole piece of things.

Aaron

So It's it's very minorly possible that that one's just an excuse. Maybe. Maybe. Just maybe that one's that one's an excuse. So speaking of moving parents, I've made a decision Okay.

That we Steve and I are gonna get super rich. That's, like, point number one.

Ian

That's usually the start up.

Aaron

I I'm gonna buy one of the neighbor's houses.

Ian

You're going Brandon Sanderson. You're doing a Sanderson, baby.

Aaron

I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means.

Ian

Brandon Sanderson.

Aaron

Because he's the author. Right?

Ian

Yes. He's the biggest fantasy sci fi author. He bought his neighbor's house. Yeah. And he First, they just owned it.

And like, that was like where the corporate headquarters was. Great. And then he got super rich and super famous and all this stuff. So he like, I think he tore down the house or whatever, some close to tearing it all down. And he dug down, like, 50 feet.

Aaron

That's what I'm gonna do.

Ian

He built a huge underground layer with a blue room and all this stuff, his offices. And then I think they put a building on top still where the offices are for, like, the regular employees. I'm not sure about that. But he constructed his whole underground lair at the neighbor's lot, and it's connected, I think, to his house. You know, this is like a tunnel system and

Aaron

Of course. Gotta have it. Gotta have it. Go. That is okay.

Literally, exactly what I wanna do. So the neighbor's house so we live in a cul de sac because we live in the big city. Right? So we live in the cul de sac.

Ian

Right. Yep.

Aaron

And we have one neighbor that's higher on a hill and then one neighbor that's lower on a hill. So either way, I'm good. Right? So I could buy either either one. And then I wanna, at some point, level both houses, mine and and the new one, obviously.

And then, I do want to build I wanna dig into the hill and build, like, a giant, you know, makerspace, hobby, house, garage slash, like, YouTube studio. Right. YouTube studio. Top of it, it's just, like, green grass with maybe, like, a, you know, maybe, like, a giant skylight and stuff. And then they have a little have a little hobbit door, not, like, a small door, but, like, a door that's kinda in the hill.

Right. So you walk out the back of the house, and you see this gently sloping, like, lawn, but but one part of it, there's, like, a double French door, and that leads into the space with all the three d printers and the YouTube studio and everything. It's amazing. It's a great idea.

Ian

This idea. I mean, you're probably a little light on cash. I'm guessing it's a big undertaking. You also gotta get approval Oh, I you never got.

Aaron

But You can't fathom how light on cash I am. Like, whatever you're thinking, divide it in half. I texted Steve on Sunday when I was, thinking about this, and I said, man, we gotta get super rich because I wanna buy the neighbor's house and knock it down. And And he was like, yeah. I'm kinda thinking the same thing, so let's do that.

I was like, perfect. Glad we're on the same page.

Ian

So you get a great idea. You get

Aaron

the house on each side.

Ian

You're at That's a lot. One side. He's at the other side. In the middle is the Man Cave studio

Aaron

Try hard studios. Garage.

Ian

So, yeah, that's the Try hard studios, corporate offices there in between.

Aaron

I don't know what would be more difficult, buying, three houses in our neighborhood or getting Steve to move from Boise to Dallas.

Ian

He's a Boise man. He likes it out there.

Aaron

Boise man. Yeah. He also has a child out there, so it's, like, gonna be kinda hard to leave.

Ian

Maybe, you moved to Boise. How about that?

Aaron

I think that might be even harder.

Ian

Thanks.

Aaron

I wanna move four kids to Boise away from all the grandparents and all our friends.

Ian

It's not gonna happen. Yeah.

Aaron

But building an underground lair might happen.

Ian

So good. Hell of a lair.

Aaron

Gotta make a lot of money, but it could happen. Why not? You know what, Ian? You know what? Rich people have no imagination.

No imagination.

Ian

Don't. That's why I love to hear this. He does. Why are they not doing

Aaron

cool stuff like this?

Ian

Yes. They're just screwing shit up when you could just be doing and they all do the same thing. Like, go get a yacht. Everybody's got a yacht. Oh.

Everybody doesn't have a new ground layer. Yeah. It doesn't have a new ground layer.

Aaron

Like, this is something interesting. This is this is the you can just do things of being rich.

Ian

So That's what needs to happen. In I don't know who's running Zuckerberg's PR or, like, who's gotten ahold of him. Right? But did you see this photo he has now with, like

Aaron

The Porsche?

Ian

Yes. Where he went to Porsche Porsche modifier.

Aaron

Yep.

Ian

And made a minivan Porsche.

Aaron

Like Yes.

Ian

That's the kind of cool shit you should be doing if you have billions of dollars. Like, my wife wants a minivan. %. Let's make a minivan Porsche. Why not?

Aaron

And I'm gonna get a Porsche while I'm there just for giggles. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

I obviously gotta have your own Porsche. But like

Aaron

That that's what I'm talking about.

Ian

Yeah. Do you think they they drive anywhere? How do you drive anywhere if you're that rich?

Aaron

I bet Priscilla isn't that her name, Priscilla Zuckerberg?

Ian

I'm not sure.

Aaron

I think

Ian

Could be.

Aaron

I think she drives. I mean, nobody would get a a custom Porsche minivan made just for, like, not driving.

Ian

Right? Think you drive alone? Like, are you always followed by security? Zuckerberg probably are.

Aaron

I think Zuckerberg, I think the whole family. Yeah.

Ian

The whole family has to be. Right?

Aaron

Have you ever seen Messi's bodyguard? Like like, the compilation Like

Ian

a ex massage guy or something like yeah.

Aaron

And he's on the field in no time flat. When a when a kid runs on for a signature, he is out there. I have He does not care one bit about the rules of soccer or the league. He is on

Ian

the field.

Aaron

It's awesome.

Ian

He and Messi probably has a whole team. Right? But it's like, that's the point guy who's, like, his, like, bodyguard, like, up with him on his body at all times.

Aaron

The most terrifying man in the world. Yes. Yeah. Of course. They've got security.

Yeah. They they're followed everywhere. They've got security. And and you know what? Maybe even, Priscilla is not driving the minivan.

Maybe she's riding in the back of the minivan, the Porsche minivan, but I don't know. But, yeah, that's the kind of stuff that billionaires should be doing. Because, like Yeah. Let's let's have a little imagination, for goodness sakes. Like, if I'm a billionaire, I'm buying 5,000 acres, and I'm starting a city.

I'm starting my own town. Like, I'm I'm terraforming. I'm making hills where there are no hills. I'm making creeks where there are no creeks, and I'm building, like, a walkable city from scratch. Of course.

With cars underground.

Ian

That's amazing. Even short of that, it's like there's just basic stuff I don't understand why they don't do. Like like, if I was a billionaire. Right? Like, I would do some crazy cool shit in my hometown that I grew up in.

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

Because this town could do some stuff. And, like, yeah, maybe they, like, donate to the hospital or something. Fine. But, like, putting your name in the hospital, that's fine. But, like, what about Main Street?

What about, like, all the stuff that everything is shitty all over the place? Like, why don't you fix all the shitty shit and, like, make sure the town government has infinite money and, like, whatever. All that stuff. I don't understand why you would if you're Jeff Bezos, why isn't your hometown, like, the greatest place ever? And it's like, this is why I like the, CloudFlare guy, Matthew Prince.

I know that he comes with his hometown, but I know he go lives in Park City, maybe permanently or at least definitely in Ski season and like Park City has plenty of money. So I don't think he hasn't done anything on that.

Aaron

He's really helping out the

Ian

people in the house and eight. But he, he bought the town newspaper Park City newspaper was going under, and he bought it. And now he runs the newspaper and makes made it awesome. I

Aaron

love it.

Ian

It's like that's great. Journalist, and they're writing stuff up, and they're doing things. It's like, yeah. That's cool. Like, give me for money.

Like, do some real stuff for the normal people.

Aaron

Let's let's build libraries all over the country. Like, that's a

Ian

cool idea. Right. You can build that.

Aaron

Billionaires, they used to be worse, but at least their whitewashing of their image was better. They were built libraries.

Ian

A better job with that.

Aaron

Yeah. It was cool.

Ian

Because they would they would care about putting their name on stuff, which at least got you those big things. You got hospitals. You got Carnegie Mellon. You got whatever. You know, you got these universities and things.

Now it's like they just hoard the money in a big pile and take out the money

Aaron

that you get. Away when they're dead. Like, do something cool with it now. Who's the one that built who's the one that built all the libraries? Was that Carnegie or Vanderbilt?

I think it was Carnegie.

Ian

I think it might've yeah. I think it was Carnegie.

Aaron

Yeah. Those robber barons, man.

Ian

Yeah. Vanderbilt been built a bunch of things.

Aaron

So cool.

Ian

Yeah. A a robber baron, a corporate raider.

Aaron

That's what you wanna be. You wanna be a corporate raider. Is it too late?

Ian

No. I don't think so.

Aaron

I think

Ian

if I could make enough money. This is why I can't get distracted on side projects. I gotta make enough money to buy corporations.

Aaron

So you can become a corporate raider.

Ian

So I could be straight eighties. I wanna fully realize myself as an eighties business Gordon Gekko guy.

Aaron

Listen. I'll make you a deal. If you become a corporate raider, I'll watch the original Wall Street.

Ian

You gotta watch the play.

Aaron

That's the part.

Ian

We're gonna do. This is the perfect one. Dave, producer Dave, gotta cut in twenty seven second clip of Gordon Gekko talking about liquid because that's that's perfect right here. Talking about liquid? Liquid.

Go. Tax bills. Wake up. Will you, pal? If you're not inside, you are outside.

Okay? And I'm not talking about some $400,000 a year working Wall Street stiff line first class and being comfortable. I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time.

50, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. What nothing? Okay. We're back.

Okay.

Aaron

I didn't hear it, so I have no idea.

Ian

But it's so good.

Aaron

What an amazing clip. Wow.

Ian

It's so good.

Aaron

I fully understand now.

Ian

But this is the point. It totally ties in with what we're what I'm talking about here, which is he he's giving a proposal to Charlie Sheen. Kenny's like, listen. Yeah.

Aaron

So are we doing the clip now? Yeah. The the clip that the people just heard. Yes. Are you gonna just basically rehash it?

That was good.

Ian

That was good. Tell you it.

Aaron

Okay. Yeah. Tell me. So This is good content. Basically

Ian

say damn. Listen. You think you wanna be, like, you what you think Rich is is nothing. You think he's flying first class and it's being comfortable and having a nice house and buying your neighbor's house and putting your office in it. Right?

That's what you think Rich is. He's not talking about rich. He's talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time.

This is his quotes. Right? Like, that level of wealth. Corporate raider wealth. You're buying companies.

You're buying. You're selling All that stuff. That's what we're talking about here.

Aaron

Sounds like a good clip. I should I should listen. I'll I'll have to listen back to the episode.

Ian

It's ridiculous that you have not seen this movie. Should we go we could we could cut this out, and we could go listen to it now. Should we go listen to it now?

Aaron

What? The the movie?

Ian

No. Just the twenty seven seconds.

Aaron

No. I'm not doing that. We gotta keep the vibe going. Here's the one I have seen. Wall Street Money Never Sleep.

No. That's Shia LaBeouf. Great movie. Great movie.

Ian

I've never even watched it.

Aaron

Gary Mulligan, Shia LaBeouf, Josh Brolin. Great movie. I do like Josh Brolin. Is so cool.

Ian

Maybe I'll watch it. Unbelievable. Cool. I could I just literally couldn't bring myself to watch it because it's so

Aaron

It's great.

Ian

Shia LaBeouf is so the wrong person to be in a movie with Gordon Gekko. It's everything's about totally wrong. That girl is totally wrong.

Aaron

It's great.

Ian

Things wrong.

Aaron

I know. It's all It's all very bad. No. It's a good movie. How can

Ian

you watch that and not watch the original?

Aaron

Oh, I've seen it so many times. It's such a great movie.

Ian

It's, I'm gonna maybe it is a great movie. Maybe it

Aaron

is a movie. I saw it in theaters, I think. I think But

Ian

the original is a truly great movie. It's a top five movie for me. Top five. No. You know I like movies.

Aaron

No. The the second one is good. The second one is good. You have to watch it.

Ian

I will check it out. Even though Sean Maybe we'll

Aaron

make a pact that each of us will watch the other.

Ian

I'm willing to sign up for that. Let's do that. I would do that. Next week movie review week.

Aaron

That's, I got a lot to do, man. I got some superglue that's about to fall off. I don't have time. I don't have time to be watching movies again. I gotta babysit this superglue.

No way. Here's what here's what I can say. I am having I am having an elective surgery in early November Oh. To, to make sure. You know?

And maybe while I'm in bed. Yeah.

Ian

Yes.

Aaron

Maybe while I'm in bed, I'll watch the first Wall Street. How about that?

Ian

Okay. That's not too far. And I'll watch I'll watch, the second one that week, and then we can, you know, when you're ready to go back on the mic, we can discuss.

Aaron

Deal. Let's do that.

Ian

You also have to watch the Godfather that week. Just make just not the let's just do it. Just do it, man.

Aaron

Just Okay. I can watch The Godfather.

Ian

I can watch The Godfather.

Aaron

I I could do that.

Ian

But then that's just a straight movie review episode after that. We're gonna have to go through it. It might be two or three episodes, to be honest with you. There's a lot to cover. We got a lot of things to apply to your life.

Aaron

Don't worry, listener. Dear listener. I'm not doing two or three episodes on the godfather. I'm sorry.

Ian

Two or three is,

Aaron

like, a minimum. I'll do a ten minute bit, segment, but I'm not doing I'm not doing two or three episodes of godfather.

Ian

Ten minutes. We're not even gonna get through the opening scene in ten minutes. There's so much left to cover.

Aaron

That's that's up to you, but we're doing ten minutes. It's a tight time box.

Ian

Man. No. But at least you'll be in the loop, so now we can discuss these business things you go through.

Aaron

You can have a shared language.

Ian

Have the right context. Yes. And the shared language. You're out there you're out there just wandering around in the desert, man. You don't even know what you're doing because you don't have the the base knowledge.

Aaron

I'm a satisficer, and you can provide. I'm a satisficer, and I'm satisfied with my movie knowledge.

Ian

See, though. That's the point is if you just had a two hour investment, you'll be satisfied in all the business knowledge you need. That's what I'm saying. I love thinking of

Aaron

their fees that correctly.

Ian

Literally, they're wasting four, five years to get MBAs. You did that.

Aaron

You just watched it too. My master's in accounting. I already wasted the time. I can't waste another two hours.

Ian

Wasted. Wasted. Wasted. Wasted. Watch these movies.

Okay. You're like, why did I waste those years? Wasted.

Aaron

I already wonder why I wasted those years. I'm teaching databases. What does that have to do with being a CPA? Man,

Ian

I gotta start that that pop NBA podcast I wanna do, man. Pop NBA. That was great. Name. Pop NBA.

Aaron

Great. That's a great name.

Ian

MBA knowledge from the pop culture. It's all out there.

Aaron

A fantastic name. I did I did see a devastating tweet. It was a it was like a it looked like a New Yorker style comic. Mhmm. And it was two people talking, and he was like, yeah.

My friend and I do a a podcast about movies, but here's the catch. We also kinda joke around a little bit. Yeah. I know. It's like, uh-oh.

Shoot. That is

Ian

All the podcasts?

Aaron

Yeah. I feel called out personally. They're

Ian

on to us here.

Aaron

Yeah. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Spotsy who create all the packages, that you know and love for Laravel. But today, specifically, we're gonna talk about Mailcoach. And Mailcoach is one of their, paid offerings that is fantastic. It is a email sending platform.

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Back to the show. Alright. You wanna do cloud show?

Ian

Oh, yeah. Let's do that.

Aaron

So here's here's here's my take on the WordPress drama.

Ian

Mhmm.

Aaron

Matt Mullenweg has lost his mind.

Ian

I think he's actually lost his mind.

Aaron

That might actually be true. But regardless regardless, I have a few I have a few takes. One is, everyone's conflating issues. So everybody's conflating because Matt is conflating them. Open source contributions with trademark disputes with, infrastructure, rights to wordpress.org.

Right? Yep. So the they're he's mad that WP Engine is not contributing to open source, which, hello? Open source? You don't have to do freaking anything.

Ian

And that's not even true. It's not even true. But even if it was true, you definitely don't don't have a responsibility at least. Responsibility.

Aaron

Yes. Zero responsibility. So he's mad they're not doing that. And then everybody's like, well, if, you know, if they contributed more, this were this trademark thing wouldn't be an issue. Completely separate, discreet, not even the same, not even a little bit.

And then there's the whole WordPress.org. Like, do you have a right to access this? And I think the answer is is no. But if you're gonna turn it off to flex the trademark thing, to flex the open source thing, I just feel like it's all it's all bad. And he, final note, he doesn't understand how how lawsuits work, apparently.

Because when when you are when you are priv or when you are, when you are party to a lawsuit or you think you're about to be, you shut the hell

Ian

up. And he so.

Aaron

In a in a bold move, took the opposite took the opposite course, which is, like, I'm gonna go win in the court of public opinion, which, in my opinion, is gonna cause him to lose in the court of courts. That's my opinion.

Ian

I mean, you may I mean, it's because he's post economic as he says, and so he doesn't worry about these things. I don't know. Like He

Aaron

should be building underground layers, not, like, arguing not arguing with our original business dad on Twitter.

Ian

Yeah. That was, I don't know, man. The whole thing is weird. What, I mean, the whole it's so awesome. Like, one of those very transparent, like, he wants the money and then got some pushback.

And now he's like, well, it's because they don't contribute enough to open source. Like, this is just, like,

Aaron

after the fact.

Ian

Right. Trying to justify the shakedown. And no. I don't know. I just feel like not enough people are gonna buy that in general to turn the community around.

You know, I just think if you're trying to get community support to be like, we all hate WordPress engine WP engine, not WordPress engine.

Aaron

So confusing, but you're gonna end up, you're gonna end up as an exhibit in the suit. You just called a WordPress engine.

Ian

You just this is, like, all the wrong way to go about it. I feel like there probably is a playbook where you could turn public sentiment against them with the right process, but she has not done any of. And then he goes on all these streaming shows and like, they call him out. They, I mean, I have to say Theo and Prime both did like pretty amazing interviews, which Mhmm. Was kind of surprising.

Especially Theo, I wasn't really expecting him to really hold his beep to anything, but he did. So that was good. And, yeah, I don't the whole thing is just bizarre. I don't

Aaron

I don't know what he's doing.

Ian

That's where it's like I feel like he must just be having some kinda actual breakdown or like

Aaron

an episode.

Ian

Yeah. Automatics and like bad financial shape. Cause they did raise a bunch of money at an insane valuation, which they're never gonna get close to. And maybe it's, you know, they have 2,000 employees, he says, whatever. Like that's

Aaron

good.

Ian

That's a lot of money. Like, so

Aaron

that is so many, $300,000,000

Ian

doesn't go that far. It's 2,000, totally many highly paid employees. And so maybe they're running a little tighter cash.

Aaron

There are 2,000 employees. And just to make it average, let's say what do you wanna do? One twenty five? Because they probably have employees all over the world.

Ian

Probably I think it's more. I would say it's, like, one. I was thinking 200 just to make you

Aaron

I think 200 is probably the highest.

Ian

Too high.

Aaron

But because they're globally distributed, we'll say we'll say a 50,000.

Ian

Alright. I I think that these, like, VC backed companies, when they're out there hiring, I think they're making some expensive hires. But

Aaron

2,000 people times a hundred and $50,000 Yep. Which is not fully loaded, by the way.

Ian

I was gonna say, it's really 200 even if you say the salary is average $1.50, it's 200.

Aaron

So this is this is shooting low because we have Right. We have benefits, health care, insurance, all that. Right. $300,000,000.

Ian

There you go. That's the

Aaron

300 mil that's it. That's game over.

Ian

You lose.

Aaron

I mean,

Ian

they have revenues, obviously, and everything like that. So but yeah. So it could be it could be tight. It could be tight.

Aaron

Man, they're paying $300,000,000 in headcount, and I'm worried about selling, like, a hundred and $47 course. Like, what?

Ian

I really need to be companies, man.

Aaron

Gotta calibrate, man.

Ian

That's crazy. Of money in the world.

Aaron

A lot of money in the world.

Ian

Just one company.

Aaron

Yeah. Yeah. So see what happens. They're gonna lose. I mean, they're gonna lose.

Ian

I mean, WordPress, even, like, forever, for years and years until, like, I think it was like ten years ago now. But before when WordPress was, when WP Engine was being formed, using WP in company names and plugin names was what they said to do. That was the official thing they said.

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

Don't use WordPress, use WP. So that's what everybody did. And that's why there's WP X, Y, Z, and all this stuff. And so I just think it's gonna be a hard time to get them. I think there's so much bazillion pages of prior art.

Like every hosting company has WordPress hosting, like page ten, ten years

Aaron

of non enforcement.

Ian

Right. Or more. And like, even when he's like, this is why you're not supposed to go talk, on talk shows. But when when he's on with Theo, he's like calling out Prometheus in a good way. He's like, see, they're good actors.

And I wish they had gone the one extra step because they only went to the Prometheus homepage, which is like because they do other things besides WordPress. So it's not like WordPress, WordPress, WordPress, But one level deep they have a wordpress hosting landing page. That's wordpress wordpress wordpress It says wordpress 57 times or whatever and it's like just like wp engine like all of them have the same exact thing I don't know. And then we didn't even this hasn't even talked about on the show anyway, even last week was how in the last couple days, they've, like, done this crazy thing where they reported a vulnerability in the plug in that WP Engine runs. Well, they cut out.

Them out of the access to update the plug in. Yeah. It's like Saturday.

Aaron

Find a vulnerability, disclose it, and then go on Twitter and tweet that there's a vulnerability, which is, like, bad, bad, bad form. You do not do that.

Ian

And you know that they went and, like, alright. Five people or 10 people go dig through this plugin Yes. Until you find something that we can use against them. Like, that's the obvious thing that happened. Right?

Aaron

And No matter how flimsy it is.

Ian

Right. Whatever it is, we need to justify yeah. Who even knows? Right? It's like maybe it's something not even bad.

Maybe it's like, you have to do 30 steps. And at the end of the day, you can, like, update one field and it's not even a big deal, whatever. Mhmm. And we just wanna use it as this PR bashing against them, and he's out there saying everybody's gonna be moving because of this security vulnerability. It's, like, freaking insanity.

How is that not

Aaron

Insanity.

Ian

Against the cease and desist? How is that not like, the whole thing just seems

Aaron

It might be. We're about to find out. Yeah. Wow. I don't know.

Ian

Why?

Aaron

It's crazy. Glad glad that's not my space.

Ian

It's not even like

Aaron

Glad it's not my area of the Internet.

Ian

What we have to do.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

But it's like even if this was still owned by Jason Cohen and it was, like, a smaller operation in a sense Maybe it makes some sense Like whatever we're just gonna bowl over them But you're going after a private equity firm with a hundred billion dollars like you're never going to bowl over them like no they have infinite money It's

Aaron

gonna be like this gonna be such a show sense. It's gonna be so fun.

Ian

You can't bully them. They have all the money in the world. They'll just put lawyers on this forever and ever and ever. So I don't know. The whole thing is crazy.

They could literally sue you out of business. Like you're the one who's the small fry taking on the fly on like a made up issue with made up stuff for no reason.

Aaron

Like that's great content. That's great.

Ian

It is great content. It's very entertaining,

Aaron

but I'm excited to see what

Ian

stupid thing

Aaron

he does next.

Ian

Yeah. I don't know. Hopefully. I don't know. It's kind of sad.

It's like, it's like, it's like starting to move over to for me to sad. Like, if he's really just having some kind of breakdown

Aaron

actually not well.

Ian

Yeah. Like, if he's just legit

Aaron

not well real that would be real sad.

Ian

Then it's sad. You're just watching this person, like, break down in real time and that Yeah. I don't like. If it turns out he's, like, just thinks this is a good idea, then, yeah, they're fine.

Aaron

Yeah. Self inflicted stupid is funny, but, like Yeah. If he's not well, yeah, that's not very funny.

Ian

He's starting to make all these I don't know. It seems unwell. It seems like we've approached unwellness for some of the insane things.

Aaron

But Somebody on Hacker News was like, Matt, I'm saying this with all the love in my heart. Are do you have carbon monoxide poisoning? Like, you need to check you need to check your space because you're not the things you're saying don't make sense.

Ian

Right. It's like nonsensical. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that'd be something if it was something like that.

Aaron

Dude, that'd be crazy.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

That's gonna be my ultimate out for anything. If I do something extremely stupid,

Ian

I'd be

Aaron

like, oh, man. Must have been carbon monoxide poisoning. My my bad, guys. Stop.

Ian

That's how I use my gallbladder. Anything with pre gallbladder. I can't be held responsible for anything pre gallbladder. Yeah. I was not.

Aaron

Alright. You wanna do, you wanna do designers white on white on white? I've already heard

Ian

I you've never So busy. Said it out loud,

Aaron

but I've already heard it in your voice. So I I don't need to hear this segment. I've already heard this segment. I read the tweet, and I thought, yep. That sounds about right.

So give us

Ian

so bad.

Aaron

Give us the pain.

Ian

So we we we use GitHub issues. Right? And I like GitHub issues. It's, you know, you got the PRs, still integrated, whatever. Great.

It's not very good on the project management front. Like, you know, they have a board thing now. It doesn't work very well. Like, you add something and you don't know what to do with it. You have to, like, it makes an issue, but not, it doesn't automatically make an issue.

Like, whatever. It's all kinds of weird stuff. It doesn't work very well is the unfortunate answer there. So like, all right, let's do something else. So we're playing with linear as one does in the modern era.

Right? You know, you're a developer. You gotta go to where the hotness is. Okay. The hotness is linear.

Let's go let's go check that out.

Aaron

You've been you've been following Dax too closely. You've got Dax build.

Ian

Does he like the linear? I thought he doesn't like

Aaron

the Oh. Or does he like the Dude, the only thing in the world that he likes. Right. Literally, the only thing he likes besides SST is linear.

Ian

But there, those guys are all caught up in, like, well, it's, like, all magic speed and stuff, but I don't care about any of that.

Aaron

I know.

Ian

Give me a button and a reloading thing. I can see the browser reload. I'll be totally fine. I don't I don't care. So, and it's fine.

We're probably gonna stick with it. It's good enough. It's got like the main thing that most of the tools don't have is like the multiple levels. Yeah. You can have like a project and then you can have a like a, you have a team and then you have a project and you have issues.

So you can have things at different

Aaron

So they invented folders. That's crazy. That's awesome. Yeah.

Ian

Folders. Yeah. Good for them. Nobody else has that.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

Good. I like that. But every screen is just white with, like, light gray text and no differentiator between anything. If you go in any of the settings, it's just like, like buttons and text, all the same color. You have to read through everything every time because you can't, there's nowhere for your eye to go.

There's no colored buttons. There's no boxes. There's nothing. It's just white It's all

Aaron

border gray 50. B g gray 50.

Ian

You can't find where anything is. It's, it's unnavigatable. It's crazy. And, like, this is not even linear. Right?

This is, like, everybody is just building apps this way now. And it's, like, I'd like to clean this. It's great. But at the same time, like, you have to do the thing you wanted to do. And when I have to look at the, like like, I was in, like, the importing screen, and it was like, you wanna be careful.

Like, I don't wanna hit the wrong thing. No. You don't.

Aaron

The wrong thing.

Ian

Of what I'm doing more precisely. Give me some separation between things. Give me some colors. Give me some warnings. Give me it's got none of that stuff.

It's just like, here's white and gray and read through everything every time you go back to the screen because who knows what this button does. You get very cautious. And this is just the world that the designers live in now. And it's like, it's infected to me from, like, designers who are just making templates. Right?

That were always not real, which always Right. Very annoying to me. It's like, oh, look at the beautiful layout for the CRM. Yes. But there's no information on the screen.

And anybody who has a CRM wants maximum information All it is is, like, three

Aaron

charts at the top, which you're

Ian

not you're not gonna you're not

Aaron

gonna have three charts at the top. You just want information density. And then below it are, like, and below it are, like, avatars that are, like, 300 pixels wide so you can see the latest three users that signed up. You know, like, this looks gorgeous. It is unusable.

Ian

It's unused. I mean, especially when it's like a CRM or something. Look at the picture of your customer. Who the fuck has the picture of their customer?

Aaron

Cares.

Ian

Yes. First of all, you shouldn't care. Second of all, it's bad to probably even have it there.

Aaron

Like It's so bad.

Ian

Yeah. Also, you don't have it anyway. Nobody in the real world has a picture of their customer.

Aaron

Yep.

Ian

So, like, why is it taking up a quarter of the screen, this giant picture of the customer in this template? It's so dumb. So now those those designers have infected real applications where it's like, let's just make it all full of white space and no data.

Aaron

$300 to work on a button for a week. Yeah.

Ian

It's so infuriating. And it's like, I know you just know none of them have ever sat down and with anybody using the product and watch somebody use the product and be like, oh, they can't find that button for the third time in a row. That's why because that button shouldn't be white on the white background. It should probably have some kind of color to it, but they don't they don't do it. So that's that's my b.

That's my B I, you know, all these people are getting fired, right? They're all getting fired that they are they they're getting fired soon. And so my advice was to the ones who'd want to not get fired, learn how to do this a little bit better and not just make it look nice. Because someday when they run out of money, they're gonna be like, oh, we don't want it to just look nice. We want it to work nice.

And when that day comes, you wanna be the one who knows how to make it work nice. So so

Aaron

you're saying they're all getting fired because the money's dried up. Is that it?

Ian

I'm saying that's where stuff's heading. Right? Like, I mean, the same with WordPress. Right? Everybody raised all this money at ridiculous valuations.

Mhmm. And that day of reckoning is coming. How can you have 50 designers on one application? It doesn't make any sense. Like It makes

Aaron

no sense to me.

Ian

Real. All these businesses are with one designer, two designers. That's the real world, not 50.

Aaron

Are you calling for a return to maximalism? You're saying minimalism is over?

Ian

Could be. I maybe. I hope so. I like I

Aaron

hope so. Apps. I do too. Give me

Ian

I like data.

Aaron

The most information dense screen possible. I wanna see everything.

Ian

Everything. This is how up

Aaron

I want a heads up display that shows me the entire empire. That's what I want.

Ian

And the here's the thing. If you go outside of tech bubble world, right, where people are willing to put up with apps that look nice over function nice. Right? If you leave that world, every other app is nothing like that and is full of data density. That's what every single other app is.

Right? It's like you go to some account payable system. It's loaded. It's too much density probably, but it's like 8,000 fields. Right?

And it's like columns and data. Oh, how about a spreadsheet? A spreadsheet is the ultimate in density. It's like literally just boxes of information. Here you go.

As many as we can get

Aaron

on screen. The Microsoft Excel ribbon. The Microsoft Excel ribbon Ribbon. 400 buttons visible on the ribbon only.

Ian

Yes. Menu. And then in the menu, there's 4,000 other things, right? There's just stuff everywhere because people want to access the stuff. We don't want to go 40 layers deep or have to click next 70 times to see all the information.

We want it all in one place, give it to me in a big long list. So what's linear isn't too bad on that front. I will say in terms of the actual issues, it's like, okay, they're willing to give me a big long list and it's they're small and tight and okay. That part I like. So, yeah, I know.

But I feel like if you look at Salesforce, if you look at any of it, like any real application

Aaron

I'm not liking it Salesforce. I'm not doing that.

Ian

Customers. None of them are white on white boxes where you can't differentiate between different areas and functionality. None of them are like, it's all white space with one little box in the middle of the feature. Real businesses and business people want data that they can access and use and utilize. That's what we're going for.

Aaron

It was worth it. It was so worth it.

Ian

Don't get fired. Be the one who knows how the app works. What people are trying to do. This is where Add add a little bit of color, y'all.

Aaron

Add some color to the designs.

Ian

You could probably do it without color. Right? Like, maybe with just black and white, you could do it. I don't know. But, like, there's still ways to, like, separate things and have areas and not just let everything meld together into an amorphous blob of whiteness and text.

There has to be horizontal lines. I don't know. There's white little drawn arrow things that you show or whatever. Oh, a

Aaron

little a little hand drawn arrow guy already.

Ian

Hand drawn arrow. I like a hand drawn arrow.

Aaron

You would be laughed out of a design conference at this point in history for suggesting a little cute hand drawn. They would say, get out of here. Imposter. There's no way.

Ian

Did you see the notion soul, the face of the, obsidian little bit? I saw

Aaron

a little bit of of drama about that. The the Obsidian Capano or something is is his name. Yeah. They, like, stole his line drawn avatar or something like that.

Ian

That's kinda weird.

Aaron

Who knows?

Ian

I don't I don't think they actually stole it, but it is weird. Like, you have this competitor, and you're using the same exact face as them.

Aaron

Notion. Don't get it. Don't get it. Don't care to get it. Yeah.

Anything else on white on white?

Ian

I think we covered it. What's your what's your thoughts? We didn't get your take on it. Are you a white on white man, or are you,

Aaron

No. No. I'm not. I'm also not a proper designer, so Yeah. That would explain that.

I feel I feel the same way. I like I like the clean, sleek designs. I haven't used linear, but I do agree that, like, the white background with the and then the stuff that's offset is b g gray 50. It's like, oh, am I 35? Because I can't I can barely see the differentiation there.

So, yeah, I'm I'm I'm with you on that. I don't feel I don't feel it quite as, in my bones as you do. But Just

Ian

I just I hit one too many of them. You know? It's just like, if you hit one too many, it just sends you over that. You're like, can we just have some give me something. Give me a little separation.

Aaron

Well, the pendulum will swing.

Ian

Not 20. You you we gotta cater to us old people who are trying to buy your software.

Aaron

That's right. The pendulum will swing. We'll get back to maximalism, skeuomorphic, whatever.

Ian

Skeuomorphic. Oh,

Aaron

yeah. Yeah. Give me some leather stitching. Leather. Yeah.

That's what

Ian

I was. A leather desktop surface. That's what

Aaron

I'm talking about. A notebook? I know it's a notebook. It's got leather. It's stitched.

I know that I'm supposed to take my notes in here. That much is obvious.

Ian

Yellow. Give me a nice yellow with you all. Man. Absolutely. We

Aaron

had it good. If only we had known. If only we had known.

Ian

I did like that. I did like that iPhone error. That was a good error.

Aaron

It was a good error. So you know what happens one week from tomorrow?

Ian

One week from tomorrow. Do I have any way to actually know this or know what I'd be happy

Aaron

to pull this? Many, many ways.

Ian

Oh, I know. Postgres course.

Aaron

Postgres course. Woo hoo. One week from tomorrow. That's not very many days.

Ian

Good thing. Deathly ill was perfect timing for your deathly illness.

Aaron

Man, yes. Yeah. So

Ian

it going? So did you catch up at post deathly illness? Okay.

Aaron

I think so. There this is all it's all a mental game. It's just so difficult, man. So So I think I'm caught up. I'm not as I wish I wish I was done, but I'm not.

But what I have left is doable, so that's good.

Ian

That's good. I do know.

Aaron

There were many, many times Steve and I were on the phone, and we were like, are we gonna, like do we have to push this thing? And it would be it would be fine to push it, but we publicly committed to October 15. Yeah. We have the, you know, Zeta. We've told Zeta it's coming October 15.

And then if you push too far, suddenly you're into November. Nobody cares.

Ian

Yeah. I don't like that. You don't wanna be, like,

Aaron

going in November launching something.

Ian

That seems

Aaron

bad. Not even a little bit. Yeah. So it was touch and go there for a minute. But last week, I I cranked out I mean, last week, I probably cranked out 30 videos.

Wow. Yeah. After after being dead on Monday. So it was it was, you know, I'm I'm recording all day, going home, putting the kids to bed, coming back up here, recording at night, recording on, you know, Saturday afternoon because it's nap time. I'm up here.

So I I probably have, you know, I probably have 20 or 30 more that I wanna do this week, which will bring us to it's gotta be 80 or 90 for launch.

Ian

Holy cow.

Aaron

Is enormous. And then after launch, there's there's a lot more I gotta do. Like, there are entire modules that I got I'll have to do after launch once we're you know, we'll be in an early access period for a little while. It's enormous. It is by far the biggest, most in-depth course that I have done, and it is just destroying me.

Ian

It's awesome. Survey, like, the landscape out there because I just feel like that's even like a whole marketing angle. Like, this is the most in-depth video Postgres course there is. Like, I feel like, yeah, I

Aaron

think that

Ian

is true. The, like

Aaron

I think that is true. And I find saying that until proven wrong. Because I'm

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. Very confident. Yeah. Just go with it.

Just say it is. And, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's video courses I've taken or even like Lara Cash stuff. It's like, oh, there's, oh, a big one.

It's like, wow. There's 20 videos, and they're like Mhmm. You know, things like that. 90 is

Aaron

insane. It's insane. It's insane. But it's it's turning out really good. And it's fun because Steve is kinda like the ideal buyer on this because Steve, has used Postgres for a long time, so he's familiar.

He's a developer, but he's not like he's not like a database guy. He's just like a full stack developer. And so I'm getting the feedback from him as he's watching through and editing them of, like, oh, wow. I didn't know that. Oh, I just learned that.

Oh, this is cool. Oh, that's cool. Oh, okay. This is good news. This is gonna work.

People are gonna like this. So, yeah, it's brutal. Brutal.

Ian

Are you doing, I hope you're not doing I mean, I after this, you're gonna have to do, like, you you have some more videos you wanted to do for SQLite, I think. Obviously, it's gonna probably be more Postgres videos. And And then you're not gonna do anything after this, I hope, for a while.

Aaron

No. So no more courses for a little while. No more courses that I am the instructor for. Right. There's a 95% chance we produce a SQLite Rails course, but I will not be the instructor for it.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. So that'll be fun. So I've, you know, been talking with this guy who's extremely smart and talented, and I think we're gonna do the SQLite Rails kind of under the the try hard slash high performance SQLite umbrella, but without me as the instructor. Mhmm.

So that'll be that'll be a a not a test, like, an experiment. It'll be an experiment to see how well, that does. So that'll be fun. But, yeah, after after this, November and December are gonna be dedicated to to doing, just some fun stuff, a little bit a little bit of silliness. So there are gonna be some things we do in November and December that you're like, Aaron, that's a terrible idea.

And I'm I'm aware of that, and I'm optimizing I'm optimizing for fun a little bit. Nice. But still, you know, still content, viable business, that sort of thing, but not, like, what is the most ruthless thing I could do? Because the most ruthless thing I could do is probably immediately start on either MySQL, Redis, or SQL Server or something like that. And I'm just not I'm not gonna do that.

I'm not doing that right now.

Ian

Yeah. I have a counterpoint view here.

Aaron

Okay.

Ian

In addition to your fun, you know, your, summer of fun post, post release course Mhmm. I think you should put in five hours a week k. For marketing the SQLite course and or the Postgres course.

Aaron

Ah, yes. Definitely.

Ian

I think that would be a good idea. Like, when because you have stuff you have, like, Black Friday sale, Cyber Monday, do all that stuff. New Year's. I do a just relaunch all the relaunch points you're supposed to relaunch these things at. And just keep trip chipping away at, like, you know, building up their sustainable business Agreed.

Potential.

Aaron

Not even not even a counterpoint. That is a yes and. Because the, like, the bulk of the, you know, creative energy is going to go towards, these fun silly things. But they're like the the time spent working is going to be on how do we turn this what we have now into, like, a viable long term business. Yeah.

And I'm optimistic. I'm extremely optimistic, especially as we get Postgres out there. I think our ability to do, like, outbound sales goes way, way up. Like, we Yeah. There are big companies with lots of people using Postgres.

And so our ability to we've already, in fact, looked at through the domains of people that signed up for the waiting list, and it's like, oh, shoot. We gotta call, oh, we gotta call these people. These are big companies, man. And so doing stuff like that, I think, is gonna be so fun, because, hopefully, it's you know, it will be work, but it's a different kind of work. I'm not gonna be in here, you know, recording for Yeah.

Twelve hours a day. But money is gonna come out on the other end. All the recording is, like, speculative. It's like, I think this is gonna work. I think this will make money in a month from now.

But if we can nail, like, a cold outbound sales or maybe not even cold, if it's warm because people sign up, we can just land and expand. Yeah. It'll be interesting. I need to go back and listen to the episode that we did with Jeffrey Way because we talked about this. Do you remember when he was like, oh, I've got people that signed up from Disney?

Yeah. I can just look at their domain, and it says Disney

Ian

actually done it.

Aaron

He's never talked to anybody. I'm like, oh, I'm Jeffrey now. I need to go listen and listen for that advice because Yeah. Yeah. That's what I need to do.

So yeah. It's gonna be a big, big relief.

Ian

If a partner angle for you two would be, this just popped in my head. It's like so, like, obviously, like, the Postgres in our world, it's like, oh, yeah. The Postgres is like the business y real platform people are using. SQLite is a little bit more of a newcomer kind of individual devs are working with it, but it's not like you're having company meetings around your SQLite usage and like whatever. You don't have a SQLite team and whatever.

Aaron

Most likely that. Correct.

Ian

There is a world where that is true SQLite and that's mobile because every mobile app uses SQLite as its database. And there's a lot of those.

Aaron

That's a great point.

Ian

So I wonder if there could be somebody, somebody to do, SQLite for mobile version of the course, or even just selling it into that market the way it is. I don't recall if it's like, might be a little too much other stuff in there, but it's a lot of mobile devs. There's a lot of mobile apps. They're all using SQL light

Aaron

for react native.

Ian

Yeah. Something like that. Yep.

Aaron

Do you hate it? I got I got the most waffly audio.

Ian

Yeah. I just don't know. I don't know enough about it to know if, like, if you'd wanna limit it to that or if it's like just SQLite for mobile and, like, there's a React Native, angle. There's but there's also, like, whatever the Apple framework thing is or whatever, you know. Yeah.

Swift and whatever the hell Android uses. Like

Aaron

Who knows?

Ian

I don't know.

Aaron

But I Interesting. That's a great idea.

Ian

Market. Like, because every single mobile app, SQLite is the database. Correct.

Aaron

Fantastic idea, Ian.

Ian

Seems like that's a market, and that's in production. People are really using it. People are hitting problems. People are hitting performance issues.

Aaron

So here's here's my, here's my charge to the dear listener. Hit me up with a Yo dog if if you think if you think you know someone who could do a, course who could be an instructor on a course for either SQLite for React Native or SQLite for Swift or SQLite for mobile as kind of an umbrella. Because I'm willing I'm super willing to entertain that as an adjunct course because I do think I do think the flagship adjunct is a good model. So you have the flagship course on SQLite and then the adjunct on Rails, mobile, whatever, Laravel mentions. Variations.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. That's kinda nice because you've done all the core research. Right? So then it's easier to hand off to somebody to be like, okay.

Like now just, you know, you're updating examples and Right. Obviously there's gonna be specific things for those platforms that might need to be tweaked, but kind of you have the core element. Now you can just make these variations. Yeah. That's pretty interesting.

Aaron

I like this. I need to find I need to find an instructor. And I think I don't know. But I think our deal with the instructors is basically gonna be, hey. You fly to us for a week or we'll fly to you for a week, and we're gonna do this thing up.

Like, we're gonna do this thing upright. It's not gonna be, hey, why don't you use your crappy webcam in your basement, and we'll just, like, try to put a little shine on it. Yeah. That's not the way we work.

Ian

I like that.

Aaron

So, yeah, I think we're trying to do something a little bit different there.

Ian

Yeah. I think keeping the quality really high to your guys' standards.

Aaron

Yeah. Exactly.

Ian

Yeah. I don't know. Do you think you could send them, like, a kit? Could you just have a kit that you send people and it's, like, everything you need? It's, like, a good camera.

It's the right it's a tripod. It's mics. It's, whatever. Or you think

Aaron

it'll be Possibly.

Ian

Still it's lights, or is it

Aaron

gonna be

Ian

too much on the setup?

Aaron

I think it's gonna be too much. The middle ground would be Steve flies to you for a day and sets up your space. Yeah. And then you can ship it all back to us later.

Ian

Yeah. That might be interesting. That

Aaron

might that might that might be doable. But because I could see

Ian

it taking more than a week. Right? Like, some

Aaron

Well, that's the other benefit of that model is, like, we would have to work for a month or two ahead of time to get everything, like Right. All the videos, all the modules, all the content squared away such that when I arrive or when Steve and I arrive, it's set up, record. Yeah. That's it.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

And I think there's something, like, Jeffrey has said many times publicly that the hardest part about guest instructors is getting them to finish their course. And, like, I get that. I feel that. And so that kinda, like, time boxing seems nice.

Ian

That's true.

Aaron

Because I imagine most of these people have full time jobs. And if it's like, hey. Just do it when you can. I don't know if it'll ever get done.

Ian

Yeah. If it's like, you gotta take a week off work. We're gonna come out there. We're gonna be with you. Everybody's motivated and cheering each other on and getting it done.

Yeah. I like that.

Aaron

Yeah. So that's the plan. But, yeah, November November, December, gonna be a little bit of silly season. We're gonna we're gonna do a physical product, so brace yourself.

Ian

Is it? Tell us what your physical product is there.

Aaron

No. No. No. No. Come on.

Turntables do not turn. No, sir. That is not how it works. I'm actually going to do it, and so we need to save the we need, we need to save the big reveal for when I actually

Ian

do it. Okay. But Alright. You You'll know

Aaron

it you'll know it when you see it.

Ian

Big? Small?

Aaron

Small.

Ian

Is it electronic?

Aaron

It's not electronic, and it's not it's not apparel yet. We're gonna do apparel one day, but it's not apparel yet.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

So it's not just like slapping a logo on a Right. On a d directed garment printer and saying buy our stuff.

Ian

This isn't like, something you can get off Printful or something like that. You're going to construct this or have it constructed

Aaron

to your specifications

Ian

or whatever. Okay.

Aaron

This is not this is not an API an API call third party deliver. This is this is Aaron for better or worse. Aaron's getting worse. Definitely worse. Aaron's gonna get the tools out.

Aaron's gonna do something stupid. Yeah.

Ian

Well, that part's fun. I see that part's not the bad part. The bad part is, like, boxing and shipping and all that. Yeah. That's the bad part.

Aaron

There there is, of course, a possibility that we make, you know, provided it works, we make a ton of them and ship them in bulk to, a third party logistics company.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

There's one called Slingshot that I know the founders of, and they're fantastic. And so maybe, you know, if we sell more we sell more than a hundred and it's like, oh, this is I'm boxing 20 of these things a day. Game over.

Ian

Yeah. I'm making I'm

Aaron

making as many as I can, and I'm shipping them to Georgia, and they're gonna fulfill them out of there. So I I did

Ian

stickers ones for Lara Jobs.

Aaron

Humongous mistake. Huge mistake.

Ian

Nobody even knows how to write their own address. It's all a disaster. Yeah. Okay. So do you have a workshop at the new house?

Aaron

I have a garage. I don't have, like, a workshop.

Ian

Okay. That's where you're gonna build this stuff? Is there

Aaron

a way? Yeah. I'll probably

Ian

So it's not a limited run. You're not saying I'm only making a hundred.

Aaron

You're just Maybe open borders. Yeah. Maybe I'll start as a limited run just to, like, cap cap my downside, my time downside.

Ian

I think it's, like, cool. People like having the b one too. It's like, oh, I had the b one.

Aaron

Yeah. We're doing a limited run then. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. And then, like, you could have b two that's, like, maybe Yep. Change it, of course, a little bit with some feedback, but also that's, like, b two. That's distinct from the collectors. I

Aaron

You know what? Honestly, I bet I bet I do 90% of this manufacturing in my former neighbor's garage.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

So I'm gonna go back to where I used to live and go to my neighbor's house where I built the shed, and Right. I'm gonna use his he's got a proper wood shop in his Mhmm. In his garage.

Ian

So it's wood?

Aaron

Which kind of thing? Of it is. Yeah. Interesting.

Ian

Yeah. The hell is

Aaron

And then and then if this works, here's the ultimate plan. If this works, we'll probably rent this apartment for one more year. So the the lease is up in, like, January, February, or something. So as long as the fire marshal doesn't come in here and was like, you built a wall, you gotta tear down

Ian

the wall.

Aaron

We'll rent it for one more year. Mhmm. And then, hopefully, after that, we can rent, like, a, like, a super cheap light industrial. You know, we can rent, like, a 2,000 square foot with a roll up door, turn it into, like, a YouTube studio. Because part of the problem is, like, we wanna change backgrounds for different courses, and it's you can't do that.

Ian

We can't

Aaron

do that. But if the backgrounds are on wheels and we've got a we've got a big old warehouse, we can just kinda roll stuff around and do my light manufacturing in the corner. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. People have no imagination anymore.

You gotta rent a light industrial warehouse.

Ian

I just don't like where they are. You end up being in, like, the crappy part of towns, no food, whatever. I know. Like, maybe you could find just the right spot that's, like, got, you know, not not too far off the beaten path. That'd be kinda cool.

That'd be pretty cool. Is this, alright. One more hint. Yeah. Over or under a hundred dollars?

Aaron

Under.

Ian

Okay. Handmade by Aaron himself.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

Get it in time to put it in your stockings.

Aaron

Mhmm. Get it in time for the new year. That's all I'll say.

Ian

Okay. Alright. Do you wanna open up any sort of competition for people to guess and win a prize?

Aaron

Sure. If you guess if you guess what it is, I'm I can't I can't give you one for free because unlike software, there's physical there's actual costs here. If you guess, I will give you, some sort of massive discount on the first run. So if you guess what it is, maybe I'll give you, like, 50% off, and you can decide to buy one or not if you want. But if you get if you get it right, I'll give you a coupon code.

Ian

I mean, it's less than a hundred dollars. So here's what I say. I I will buy you one for free. So if somebody guesses Magnanimous. One person gets one.

If multiple people get Okay. That's fine. Then it goes into a If

Aaron

you'll buy one you'll buy one, I'll buy one. So the first two people to get it right, you'll get one for free. I like that. I was thinking, you know, if a bunch of people guess, I'm gonna be broke. Alright.

First two people, mostly technical@Gmail.com?

Ian

Mostly technicalpodcast@Gmail.com. Got the spreadsheet. Public, though? You want them to do a private or public?

Aaron

I don't I don't want them to I don't wanna

Ian

You don't wanna spoil?

Aaron

I don't want them to spoil it. Yeah. Okay.

Ian

Alright. Mostly technical podcast at g mail dot com. Send me your guesses. First two to guess correctly. This way we have a date and time and all that.

That's like Yeah. So first two to guess correctly, get, get one free.

Aaron

And we'll we'll read we'll read some of the guesses out on the show because I bet there are gonna be a lot of wrong guesses.

Ian

It's gonna be fun.

Aaron

We can't reveal I'm not gonna reveal the right guess until the time

Ian

is gone. Spell that.

Aaron

But we'll we'll read out some wrong guesses or right, who knows, on the show. That's true.

Ian

We could mix in the right one. That would be great. Uh-huh. If there is a right one out there. Alright.

So we know it's partially wooden. It's gonna cost less than a hundred dollars. Aaron can build it himself.

Aaron

Correct.

Ian

It doesn't sound like it's physically huge. So it's relatively small. I think those are the hints we have. So, yeah. And you'll probably

Aaron

want it in time for the new year probably.

Ian

And he's been very specific, not Christmas, new year. So this is something New Year's ish related. Oh, I think I have a guess, actually. I'm not gonna say. I think I can

Aaron

do it.

Ian

Don't say. Don't say. Okay. Alright.

Aaron

There you go.

Ian

I'm gonna enter my own contest. Alright. I wanna touch on this one last thing quick that you Uh-uh. Made a stir on the Internet while we were while you were sick. So your wife leaves you cute Post it notes.

Aaron

The best. The best. Just the just the best. As me

Ian

and my daughter would say.

Aaron

It's just the best. I've got one right here next to the camera. I've got one taped in my car next to, like, the the shifter. Just got notes everywhere, man. It's just the best.

Okay.

Ian

That's a lot of notes. My wife has done the note thing. Often, if there's, like, some reason I have a lunch or something like that, she has snuck in the note into, the lunch

Aaron

We do love that.

Ian

Type of thing or, I think one's on a trip. Like, she put it in my, bag or whatever. But, yeah, you're getting a lot of notes. This is like Getting

Aaron

a lot of notes. It's they they especially come yeah. I need a lot of encouragement. They especially come around, you know, time times of great trial. And so, like, you know, record being gone before they're like, last week, no.

Last week was the week I was sick. The week before, I left the house so early that the coffee shop that I go to wasn't open yet.

Ian

I mean, nobody's Nobody's seen you. Like Yeah. You're just there.

Aaron

And so I'm I'm out of the house at 05:30, and I'm like, well, I guess I'll go to Starbucks because it's the only one that's open. Yeah. Come up here, record all day, then, you know, go home, and then I come back up to the office to record more. And so that's when I'm getting the notes that are like

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Thank you for all your hard work. It's gonna work. Like, you're doing great. That kind of stuff. And the one that's in my car, I think, was the day I was going in for, my, discectomy, my microdiscectomy when I had the slit, herniated disc many years ago.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

And it was just a note, like, on my, I think it was, like, on my keys or my insurance card when I woke up that morning, and it was just like, you can do it. I love you so much and stuff like that. I'm like, yeah. Staying in the car, man. I gotta keep that in the car.

We love it. We love a note.

Ian

Love a note. That stuff that it does work too. It's very It works. Encouraging. Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

It is. It does spruce you up.

Aaron

It does.

Ian

The Internet seemed torn, maybe. I don't know. I think they were alright with it overall.

Aaron

I think it was seventy thirty. I think a lot of a lot of guys were like, yep. I get them too. Changes my life. Couldn't do anything without them.

And some guys were like, oh, the only ones I ever get are like, honey, make sure you do this stupid thing. And I'm like, oh, it sucks, man. Sorry.

Ian

Too bad for you.

Aaron

Yeah. You had any white? Suck. Yeah. But I understand it's not, it's not that meaningful for some guys, so it doesn't super matter.

My wife also buys me flowers from time to time. It's great. I love it. I know. Interesting.

That's great.

Ian

You bought her flowers?

Aaron

Of course. I don't know if I

Ian

ever bought me flowers. I don't

Aaron

think so. That's great. I love flowers.

Ian

She does make like, she'll make food items or buy food items that I enjoy. That's, like, that's kinda more on my own.

Aaron

Yeah. That counts.

Ian

Size of the flowers. Alright. I think that's the show. It's a wrap.

Aaron

Wrap it.

Ian

Thanks everybody for listening. Good for us to both be on here together. We'll see if we can do it again next week. Check us out. Mostly technical Com at mostly tech pod on Twitter and mostly technicalpodcast@gmail.com, especially this week.

Send in your guesses. We'll read them out on the show, some of them anyway, next week. And, we'll see you later. Thanks, guys. Bye.