The Landing Page Lives!

Aaron

Okay. We're recording. Hello, Colleen.

Colleen

Hello. Good morning.

Aaron

So, happy Easter weekend. I spent we did some Easter stuff. I also spent a lot of time this weekend, working on our landing page.

Colleen

Okay. So I have So

Aaron

have you loaded it yet?

Colleen

No. Because I was waiting for this moment. I was gonna do it this morning. I was hoping

Aaron

that's how this was gonna be. I was

Colleen

like, I'm gonna wait for this moment. Can I land it? Can I load it?

Aaron

Okay. So before you do

Colleen

Okay.

Aaron

I need to remind you, I am primarily, not a web designer. Oh. So obviously a lot of it's gonna come from Tailwind UI. I took, a lot of the, like, the copy that Zach did, and used that. It, I think, is a great starting place.

I know that there are things that will need to be changed. So with that in mind, hammerstone.devgo.

Colleen

Okay. So I've loaded the page. Hammerstone. Build advanced filters in minutes with the drop in filter builder for Laravel Nova. Nice.

Finally, add the advanced filtering that has lingered on your road map. Read the docs. Buy now. Look at that. Call to action.

Aaron

Buy now button.

Colleen

Oh my gosh, Aaron, this is so exciting.

Aaron

Right? It's not bad.

Colleen

This is no. This is great. Oh, I like the screenshot. Okay.

Aaron

So that is if you you're probably not as familiar. That is Nova Okay. With our component at the top. And then I kinda blurred out, like, the the table and the header, so you kinda just focus on our component there at the top.

Colleen

Yes. Build your filters with an ex readable syntax. This is the code that drives the UI in the screenshot above. Oh, this is great. Out of the box.

Conditions. Yes. Prebuilt conditions. K. So we talk about the conditions.

We've got a testimonial. Oh, this is so good.

Aaron

Testimonial with a picture.

Colleen

I know. With a picture.

Aaron

Thanks, Neil. I didn't I didn't ask Neil if we could use that, but, thanks, Neil.

Colleen

You prominently feature on our website. Thank you for that.

Aaron

Yes.

Colleen

Already user proofed queries. As with everything, there are 100 there are 100 there are 100 ways people can add in.

Aaron

Hundred ways.

Colleen

Yeah. People can add in nonsense requests. With refine, you can rest easy knowing that we have already caught them all. Whether it's mixing up the start and end date, selecting conflicting clauses, leaving out a required field, you can build your new feature knowing that refine automatically validates every

Aaron

Okay. So I feel successfully encouraged. So now what do we need to change?

Colleen

Right. So this is a good start. I agree with you. Like, I think that this is a great start.

Aaron

So things on my mind.

Colleen

Okay.

Aaron

It is not entirely clear. It is not entirely clear that refine and refine for Nova are kind like, they're technically separate packages. 1 relies on the other. So I think and and I don't know how much that matters. I do say below the CTA, Refine for Nova is open source, but relies on Refine, which is a paid package.

So that's something. I'm just gonna go through all of my thoughts.

Colleen

Yeah. Let's do it.

Aaron

The refine docs themselves, which are the secondary CTA here

Colleen

Mhmm.

Aaron

Don't mention refine Nova. And so that is I need to add a section because I click through to read the docs, and it's all about refine. Right. And I would like to see on the left hand nav here, like, Nova. And I could click on it, and it tells me exactly what I need to do for Nova.

So that's a miss, I think. Okay. And then two more thoughts. One is this is not abundantly clear that it works right now with Nova 3 only, which has been I I'm sure that's 90% of the installs in the wild. So I don't think it matters too much, but it is important.

So I need to make that. I'll have 2 options there. Make it abundantly clear or make it work with Nova 4. I think the latter is the ideal, but immediate fixing. I need to make it abundantly clear that it's Nova 3 at this point.

And then finally, last thought, the landing page just kinda, like, runs into our previous landing page. So at at the top, it's like, oh, Hammerstone refine, and then it's the rest of our landing page, the podcast about us, the other packages we do. So I don't know how to like, I don't want this to just be like a pitch page, but I don't wanna dilute, like, the message. Like, I don't want them to get down to the bottom and then start looking at other stuff and forget that they should go buy the thing. So those are the those are the things.

Pick any one of those and let's let's start.

Colleen

Okay. So let's start at the first one, which was you didn't feel like it was clear that you installed Nova separately. I didn't quite understand what you were saying with the first the first.

Aaron

Sure. So Nova is, Laravel's paid package. Right? So you have Nova installed.

Colleen

Right.

Aaron

When it comes to refine, we have refine, which, is the Laravel, like, library itself.

Colleen

Right.

Aaron

That's a that's a repository. And then we also have refine for Nova, which is basically like the bridge brings Nova and refine together.

Colleen

Mhmm.

Aaron

And refine for nova, which includes the front end and all of like the nova specific bindings. That's all totally open source and free.

Colleen

Got it.

Aaron

So you could click on that first link that says refine for Nova and go to a repository that you could fully install, but it won't work because you need to additionally install refine.

Colleen

Okay. Got it. So that just needs to be more clear?

Aaron

I think so. I think it needs to be more clear. I think it needs to be more clear in the refine for Nova repository read me. And then I don't know if it needs to be more clear in in the landing page at all. Maybe it's just really an installation instruction exercise that I need to flesh out.

Colleen

Right. So I think I mean, what happens if I come in here and I'm like, this looks cool, and I click buy now?

Aaron

Mhmm.

Colleen

That I get okay. So that drops me to unlock where I can purchase the license.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Colleen

But if I don't understand that I need both parts of this, it's I'm not gonna know what to do next.

Aaron

Right. So if you just click buy now, you're taken over to, not refine. What's it called? Unlock. Unlock.

Taken over to unlock, and you can buy a license for refine. And that will give you installation instructions for refine, which is which is what you need. But then you also need to install this refine for nova package.

Colleen

Okay. I have an idea. I'm sorry.

Aaron

Okay. Well, last last thing is if if you were to so if you were to buy refine and set up your license keys and everything

Colleen

Yeah.

Aaron

And then only install refine for nova, refine for nova will pull in the supporting package that it needs.

Colleen

Okay.

Aaron

So if if you were to set up your license keys and install the one package, it will install the other one as a dependency. So you don't really have to install 2. You just have to have the license keys set up for the dependency, if that makes sense.

Colleen

It does make sense, but I feel like it's not clear unless that's obvious because that's how everything in in Laravel works. To me, that's not clear at all.

Aaron

Nothing in Laravel works this way. So So

Colleen

I feel

Aaron

like that's

Colleen

not clear at all. So I have a suggestion.

Aaron

Tell me.

Colleen

Why don't I have been talking to Michelle and Matthias about maybe doing, like, a video. We help them install it.

Aaron

Cool. Love it.

Colleen

So they're super busy. So why don't we try to get on their schedule, like, this week if we can? I'll see. And then I think so before you you drop a ton of time in trying to figure out how to make people understand that, why don't we walk through it with them and see what kind of questions they have, and then that will inform how we can change the copy on the landing page to make it clear.

Aaron

K. What do

Colleen

you do?

Aaron

Love it. I think that's a great idea. Okay.

Colleen

Hold on. I'm gonna make a note.

Aaron

Can't do it this week because I am going to Boston to meet all the tublers. Oh, so fun. I know. It's gonna be great.

Colleen

Don't want you to waste any time or spin your wheels here. So, I think that's probably the smartest way to do it.

Aaron

Okay.

Colleen

Because we'll probably find other other holes in terms of, like, the landing page and explaining that.

Aaron

Okay.

Colleen

So the second thing you want you said was you want when you click on read the docs in the left hand side here, you want a Nova specific installation instruction?

Aaron

Mhmm. Because read the docs dumps you into the docs for refine, which are extensive and well done. But that's really spectacular.

Colleen

Everyone who's on your computer right now, you should go look at them because they're spectacular.

Aaron

But nowhere in these docs do I see the word refine I'm sorry.

Colleen

Nova. I

Aaron

do see that word. I don't see the word Nova, which is a problem. Yeah. So I think I just need I do have some docs for Refined Nova that just live in the read me of that repository. I think I just need to move it over here.

Well, copy it over here.

Colleen

Okay.

Aaron

So that when people come to these docs, they see the word Nova and they can click on Nova. I think that's pretty basic. So unless I don't think there's a whole lot to discuss there unless you think I'm crazy. I think that's an easy fix.

Colleen

I'm gonna just make a note of that. I think that sounds great. So move slash copy nova nova read me info Mhmm. To Hammerstone Docs. Okay.

And then the third thing was how this landing page is continues with our landing page.

Aaron

Just rams

Colleen

Just rams into our landing page.

Aaron

Literally, I, like, I left the includes for the old landing page just below all the work I was doing. So it's it is just it just butts right into it. So the question is, do we want the landing page to be specifically and only, a pitch page for Nova Refinedova, or do we want to include this extra info?

Colleen

So I think it should be just a pitch page for Nova, and we could just I don't know how hard it is, but throw an about page on here, and we could put everything else, you know, slash about for now.

Aaron

Uh-huh. I could do, yeah, that's fine. I could do about. I could do podcast, and I could do, packages. Yeah.

So that would fit that would take care of all the extra info that's on here.

Colleen

Okay. Yeah. I think that'd be I think that'd be better. I like that

Aaron

plan. Okay. Are you I was gonna write that down. Are you putting this all in Notion? Or do

Colleen

you want

Aaron

me to

Colleen

do Let me write that down too. Create

Aaron

and You know, since we use Notion

Colleen

About, podcast, packages, page, and separate out. So So we're gonna keep Nova for now is gonna be our main landing page.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Colleen

Old details. Okay. Yep. So yeah. Okay.

Cool. So what I have from that oh, go ahead.

Aaron

Should I change this this is more of a process question. Should I change this landing page for Nova and Notion to complete? Because I have completed it or in progress because we're still working. I feel like it should be complete and then maybe make a new task for, like, revisions and stuff.

Colleen

I feel I feel like it's complete.

Aaron

Okay.

Colleen

That's great. Yeah. And so okay. Yeah. I feel like that's complete.

That's awesome, Aaron. Thank you for for, grinding this out. This is exciting. Oh, yeah. This is super good.

Bye now.

Aaron

If if there's one thing I'm good at, it's working really hard and grinding things out. I think I'm good at maybe 2 or 3 things, but one of them is definitely grinding things out.

Colleen

Oh, that's awesome. Okay. So this is amazing. And this this this unlock sh ties right into our Stripe integration. Right?

Aaron

Oh, yeah. Mhmm.

Colleen

Do you or do I have I don't have notifications Stripe notifications turned on. Do you have Stripe notifications

Aaron

I don't because Michelle asked how to pay for it, and I emailed her back, like, several days later. And she's like, oh, we already paid for it. I figured it out. That's amazing. Oh, great.

So, no, I I don't have them turned on really.

Colleen

Okay. Just wondering. Okay. Cool. Yeah.

This is awesome. I think this is a this is a super win for this week. Good. So the takeaways I have is the takeaways I have from this for now, for the next week, is just schedule the call with Michelle and Matthias. And, again, that will give us, I'll just that's easy.

I'll give that to myself to do. I'll figure out when you're out all week. You're going to Boston. That's so exciting, by the way.

Aaron

I know. Yeah.

Colleen

Are you gonna be great? Okay. So excuse me. So we'll schedule a video call with them, and I think we're we're gonna learn so much by, like, actually you know, we can use it as marketing material, but actually, like, walking through the process with them to see

Aaron

For sure.

Colleen

You know, where they run into hiccups, etcetera, etcetera. And, so we're gonna you're going to move copy Nova Read Me into Hammerstone Docs.

Aaron

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Colleen

Whoops. And create an okay. And then you're gonna break up that main landing page to do a create a okay. That's perfect. Awesome.

Okay. Sweet.

Aaron

This is good. This is progress.

Colleen

Oh, this is huge progress. I'm super excited. I mean, so we got the landing page. The next step is, like, how do we let people know about it and sell it?

Aaron

Yeah. So question there. Do we want to, do the interview with, Michelle and Matthias first, or do you want to just send an email to the whole list and be like, hey, good. Just go buy the thing.

Colleen

Okay. So I am torn on this. I've been thinking about this. I feel like, like, if we can't meet with them till next week

Aaron

I I can't. You're welcome to get on with,

Colleen

Michelle and Matthias

Aaron

by yourself.

Colleen

What I could do is maybe Michelle and I could go over the landing page on page on Software Social on Thursday.

Aaron

Great idea.

Colleen

Yep. And I'll see what kind of feedback she has on it. Yeah. Let's do that. So on Thursday, I'll review it with her and see what kind of feedback she has, and then we can figure out what we wanna put in an email.

We don't have any segmentation, so we don't know how many people are Nova people versus how many people are

Aaron

I know, it's not segmentation. It is they self they they told me which back ends and front ends they were using

Colleen

Okay.

Aaron

Through reform. But Nice. I don't think at the time that I set that up, I don't think Novo was a package that we had. Because, you know, Novo was one that I was just like, I'm gonna freaking do it right now. Right.

So I know which people are Laravel, so that's probably enough that I could just email all of them and say, hey, are you Laravel? Yes. Do you use Nova? Maybe. And just send them to the site.

Colleen

Yeah. I feel like we should wait until next week to send out that email because That's fine. I think a little more like, that those two specific things, like, even just dropping the read me from Nova into the, you know, docs sidebar.

Aaron

Yeah. Of course.

Colleen

And I I'd really like to see what Michelle says about the landing page. So I feel like waiting waiting a week to email them is is okay, because we wanna be ready. I mean, hopefully, we'll get a lot of responses. So I feel like we wanna be ready to respond

Aaron

to those quickly.

Colleen

For sure. And since you're traveling this week and we don't have, like, a full Nova explanation yet, I think we should sit on it for a week while we figure

Aaron

that out. Listen, Colleen. I don't wanna wait for anything ever anymore. So that's fine. I will wait for 1 week.

I will allow this.

Colleen

I think we should wait for 1 week. Cool. Awesome. This is great. Yeah.

And so I think how many people are on our email list?

Aaron

Several 100.

Colleen

Like, a lot of people.

Aaron

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that's a good thing I need to do. I need to move because I put everyone on ConvertKit, at the beginning, and then was just like, this is not what we need. So I need to move all the ConvertKit people to Mailchimp.

So I can do that this week as well.

Colleen

Okay. Cool. You're gonna do that this week. Okay. So oh, I see you typing.

Aaron

Shouldn't take me very long. Oh, yeah. I did that one.

Colleen

Awesome. Okay. Great. This is great. Yeah.

So I think talked so the action I see is I'll go ahead and schedule with Michelle and Matthias, and then Michelle and I will talk landing page when we record this week. And early next week, let's well, since we're gonna be doing our podcast hopefully early in the week, we can put together what kind of email we wanna send. Because we just I just you know, you gotta be careful with email because a lot of people, myself included, hate getting emails. So I don't want to send too many unnecessary emails. So I wanna be ready when we send it.

Aaron

Don't don't wanna anger the nerds sending them an email. You know?

Colleen

Don't want to anger anyone.

Aaron

Thanks. Thanks for signing up for my list. I'm sending you an email now. No. I get it.

I get it.

Colleen

I know. That is kinda funny. Okay. Awesome.

Aaron

Okay. Cool. Well

Colleen

Anything else? That's all we had written down, but I didn't know if there's any

Aaron

Not not on not on tasks. I have, thoughts on life and philosophy, but we can move to what what you've got up to.

Colleen

Okay. I'm super excited. Okay. So, as we talked about last week, this a AREL query builder workshop, like, super sweating it. So last week, we pulled out all the refined stuff from the client.

Aaron

Oh, wow. I know.

Colleen

It was it was big it was a big week. So we we pulled out all the refine from the client, wrapped it up in a Ruby Gem, and published that gem. And now it's back in the client repo as a gem.

Aaron

That's amazing. So that's

Colleen

a huge so it's

Aaron

not huge.

Colleen

It's huge. Like, this is huge. It's gonna make, yeah, it's gonna make everything it's it's awesome. It's awesome to pull all that code out. Like, it was so good.

So that's Gonna

Aaron

make those boundaries and those interfaces super clear.

Colleen

Yeah. So the back end was okay because the back end's very, you know, very well name spaced, and it doesn't integrate, except for that one table where we store filters, like, we're not tightly integrated to the client.

Aaron

The Yeah.

Colleen

The front end's a little trickier. And I knew that was gonna happen, so the good news is starting on it, like, we whatever the day. We did it the day, like, the day after you and I talked. So starting on it early is key. So, we have someone who's a JavaScript guy who's going to publish who's gonna pull out all our stimulus controllers and publish those to MPM.

Great. Yeah. And he's working on it, like, literally today. Like, it's I sat down at 8 AM, and he had already sent me a bunch of Slack messages, like, asking questions about

Aaron

it. Amazing. Yeah. Is that is that us or client or folks?

Colleen

That's that's, that's, one of the bullet train guys.

Aaron

Great.

Colleen

Yep. So he like I said, he's already asking me questions about it, and he even caught something that what did he catch? He caught something that was client specific that we well, it was really bullet train specific. So what I have to decide is when I when I wrap up the front end, like the JavaScript, do I wanna do a bullet train specific package and then a non bullet train specific package? Yeah.

And I kinda think I don't want to, but I think I have to because bullet train, everything inherits from this account controller, but that's not, like, super typical outside of bullet train that someone would do that. So

Aaron

This is this is exactly the Nova situation, by the way. Yeah. I have the default vanilla, and then there's like a set of a thin set of bindings needed to get everything into Nova specifically. So you're describing, like, rails and bullet train are Laravel and Nova.

Colleen

That's the

Aaron

same thing.

Colleen

So I think we might need 2 packages.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Colleen

And so that's good to know. Again, the good thing is, like, getting started on early. So that's good to know. And so yeah. So that's today is, he's gonna pull that out.

And what we're gonna do for the workshop what I'm gonna do for the workshop is I'm gonna use the open source bullet train, and then I'm going to I'm not gonna add our packages via npm because I'm I don't know how clean it's gonna be. We'll see. I might change it in a week or 2. But, like, today, like, I'm not ready to do that, so I'm just gonna leave those that JavaScript in. Like, we'll have a I created as a separate repo, and it's just gonna have the JavaScript in it, because our front end was tightly coupled.

And, again, I saw this coming. So this is, again, good. We're getting started on it. It's tightly coupled to client. So there's we can pull it out, but there's a couple things they're doing that are very bullet train specific

Aaron

Mhmm.

Colleen

That we're gonna have to kinda suss out, like, just proper documentation or is this you know, make sure the API is what we want it to be when other people integrate it. But this is huge because it's good for our workshop, and it's one step closer to being able to sell this package outside of client and bullet train. So Yeah. Feeling super amazing. Yeah.

Yeah. So feeling super good about that.

Aaron

Yeah. Getting getting all of that pulled out, I I knew was gonna be a big a big task, and to hear that you've already got it all partitioned out, it's pretty amazing.

Colleen

Well, I feel like I have to be, you know, the tests aren't all passing yet, but they're not not passing because

Aaron

they're not not passing.

Colleen

They're not passing because we don't have all the I didn't like, because there's, again, there's so many dependencies. Like, you have to make sure you have the right test dependencies.

Aaron

Right.

Colleen

And since I'm, like, basically spinning up tables like that in the test suite, you know, you spin up a table in the test suite. So that's, like, a specific dependency that I have to have within the test, environment. So it's it's all yeah. It it felt huge, Aaron. Like, it felt like this is a thing I had been hesitant to do because I knew it was gonna be hard.

So and I was worried it was gonna slow down development of the actual package. So just, like, just taking a couple like, just doing it. Like, Andrew was great. Like, I basically was like, we're gonna do it tomorrow at 10 AM. We spent, like, 4 hours on the phone or on the Oh, man.

We did, like, a 4 hour pair session. And

Aaron

A 4 hour tuple?

Colleen

It was tuple. Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. That's what I like to hear.

Colleen

Okay. Can we talk about tuple? Okay.

Aaron

Of course, we can talk about tuple.

Colleen

Can I tell you what happened? Okay. Yeah. Sorry. So we have this 4 hour tuple session.

So I was like, you know, I, like, haven't really ever used tuple. I I mean, I've kinda used it, but it's usually, like, just a tiny little screen share. You're not Right. 4 so when you're on a video call with someone for 4 hours, you need to be very careful about, like, what you're sharing. And are you muted?

Are you not muted? Is your camera on? Like, maybe you wanna, you know, blow your nose and you wanna turn your camera off. So I go to the 2 people homepage and try to find how to use 2 people. And you know what you can't find on the 2 people homepage?

Aaron

How to use 2 people.

Colleen

I, like, I literally was, like, where like, I'm searching. I'm on this call with Andrew, and I'm, like, searching the tubal home page. Like, do I right click? How do I take control of the screen? What does that red thing mean?

Is that his screen? I mean, I know it's his screen, but how do I know if my screen is being shared as well? Like, there's literally no how to use Tuple on their freaking website.

Aaron

You have to write when you have those thoughts, you have to write them down and send them to me because you know a guy who can fix that now. Right? Okay. So I'm telling you now. I'm telling you because you know a guy who can fix that now.

Colleen

Right? Okay. So I'm telling you now.

Aaron

A mental note.

Colleen

Next time, I'll write it down.

Aaron

Let's see. How to use Tuple.

Colleen

There's like guides on how to pair program. I know how to pair.

Aaron

There are. Yeah.

Colleen

But there's no, like, literally, what do I click to take control of the screen? Like, what does that red thing mean? Is that his screen and my screen? Is it just his screen? Is my video on?

I don't know. Like, is my mute on? I don't know.

Aaron

I'm frantically typing. Is my video on? Am I muted? This is great.

Colleen

Yeah. That was, that was kind of funny. I thought of you when I couldn't figure out how

Aaron

to use

Colleen

your software.

Aaron

Yeah. Thanks. Oh, it's awfully generous calling it my software.

Colleen

I've been there 2 days. Right?

Aaron

I've been there 2 days and I've seen, just the enormous amounts of work they've done to make the Yeah. So that's really helpful because I am in the process of, kind of not not revamping. I am revamping the pair programming guide, which you stumbled upon and you were not pleased with because it didn't tell you how to use tuple. Correct. So I am revamping that.

And I'm also like taking fully taking over and owning the marketing site. And so I will be spending some dedicated attention answering those kinds of questions.

Colleen

Give me a quick start guide. Because I'm sure this happens to other people where they're on a Tuple call and they're like, wait. Do I right click? Do I left click? Which cursor's mine?

Aaron

Like yeah. Okay. Perfect.

Colleen

That's my that's my tuple feedback. Anyway, so I'm going to update our Notion for arault query builder workshop in progress. I had very hard all in caps. Now I'm just gonna downgrade that to hard because I'm feeling pretty good about it.

Aaron

Still all caps, but, yeah.

Colleen

Still all caps.

Aaron

We lost the very, so that's good.

Colleen

Once I get the like, hopefully, you know, today or tomorrow, the priority is getting the front end pulled out. Like I said, that's the hardest part, and that'll be a great learning experience for me. It's gonna help me then put it in other people's sites. We'll be able to use it for the workshop. Like, it's gonna be all good.

Yeah. So that's, okay. Great. So next, you got your rails conf?

Aaron

Yes. I got my booked my hotel room and got my, rails comp ticket.

Colleen

Awesome. So we just need flights.

Aaron

Yeah. I just need to book flights.

Colleen

Perfect. So partnership agreement. Did you Yep.

Aaron

So I saw your so I found an attorney, had a call with him. He sent me all those questions. I sent them to you. You redlined them, I guess, is the the legal term. So I need to send those back to him.

Well, I need to I don't think I'll have anything to add, but add anything that I wanna add and then send those back to him. And I asked him like, hey. What's a general range of fees? Is it like a1000 or 10000? And he's like, oh, no.

Probably between, you know, $902,000. So as long as that's okay with you, I think that seems reasonable to me. As long as that's okay, I'll send the send that back to him and then try to set up a call where we can, like, get it done for real.

Colleen

Yep. Yeah.

Aaron

Okay.

Colleen

I I think, it sounds like we can still target the end of the month was what I had wanted, because I knew there'd be a fair amount of back and forth. But the end of the month would be would be ideal. So that would

Aaron

be great. Okay. Cool. Yep. I will that's in that's in my court.

I'll handle that for now.

Colleen

Awesome. Awesome. So let's see. I'm just looking at our task list here. Okay.

So I let's see. Anything else?

Aaron

I'm trying

Colleen

to think if there's anything else on my end. You're traveling this week. That's great, because that gives me this week to get everything sussed out, to come up with an outline, and then I figure we'll start meeting, like, outside of this podcast to actually talk workshop next week. So that should work. You're back next week?

Yeah. So by then, I'll have a good I feel like I'll have a good handle on it. And, so that that oh, my gosh. It's happening so fast.

Aaron

It is. I feel

Colleen

like we'll have a good handle on it by then. So that's, that would be great.

Aaron

I feel like I'm primarily gonna be, like, hype man, color man, sequel man.

Colleen

Yeah. And

Aaron

then you'll handle you'll handle the rest. Does that seem accurate?

Colleen

Yeah. I think it'll it'll dovetail really nicely with the talk I gave at Sin City Ruby. So I should be able to reuse a lot of those slides. But I think, you know, the biggest thing with the workshop is just keeping people engaged.

Aaron

Yep.

Colleen

So I think what you just said is true. Like like, basically, it'll be a little theory which you can give.

Aaron

Mhmm. And

Colleen

then, yeah, basically agree. Okay. We gotta get. So Ernesto gives workshops a lot, Ernesto from our, our group who has

Aaron

Mhmm.

Colleen

The Rails consultancy. And he said one thing that's really helpful is to get it spun up in a Docker image because people are supposed to, like, download the repo and get it working beforehand, but they don't. And I noticed when I was doing it that because bullet train is on rails 7, there's, like, there it's like Ruby. I forget which Ruby version, but it's the latest version of Ruby, which, like, I did not I didn't even have installed, but, like, I had to update Homebrew to even, like

Aaron

Oh, lord.

Colleen

You know? So it was a whole thing just to get this repo running. So that's Yeah. A note to myself. I might actually write that down so I don't forget, to look at doing it in Docker for the actual workshop.

Okay. So I think that's everything from my end.

Aaron

Well, I have I have philosophical thoughts.

Colleen

I'm here for it. Tell me.

Aaron

So, I've been feeling this past, like, maybe week or 2, like, I've got too much on my plate.

Colleen

Okay.

Aaron

And I think I've come to the conclusion that so lot lot of thoughts trying to figure out where to start. There was a time where we were moving very slowly with Hammerstone. Right? And so as the self proclaimed hype man, I was generating hype by doing a lot of other stuff. Right?

Getting all this other stuff going. It was working, getting hype, because we weren't moving on the main product fast enough. And so I kind of took it on myself to be like, f it. I'm just gonna do it myself. And so I picked off all these, like, things that I could do solo.

So sidecar, air drop, torchlight, I could do all of that by myself. Refined for Nova could do all of that by myself. Now I've got all these things going that need to keep going. But we're also finally moving on, like, the main thing. Right?

And I've got this new job and working on, like, back in, I think back in January or February, a database company, SingleStore, reached out to me and was like, hey. Can you write, an integration for Laravel? And I was like, yeah. That would be great. I'm, you know, bored at my day job.

I've not moved it on him or something. I could do that. And then it took him, you know, 2 months to get through legal work, and so now it's, like, all coming together right at once. So that being said, I feel like I have a lot on my plate, which has been the the goal all along for this stage in my life, with the age that my children are and where I want to be in 5 years, the goal has been do as much as I can right now. Basically, like, grind it out right now because I feel like this is not my only moment, but this is one of my moments.

Right? And so this weekend or this past week, I was working, like, all the time. Couple of nights, I went to midnight and beyond. And so what I'm trying to like, philosophically, what I'm trying to think about now is so there are times of, like, taking a bunch of stuff on and then times of finishing a bunch of stuff and getting it off your plate. And I feel like it's healthy for me to have that kinda ebb and flow, be be cyclical and stuff.

So the way that I've, like, framed this as as I'm gonna get through it is basically the only way through is to do what I committed to do. So I've committed to do a lot of these things, whether explicitly or implicitly. And I think my Jennifer and I have talked about this a whole bunch. Like, something that is not in my nature, and I don't want to be in my nature is to just, like, drop stuff. I don't wanna commit to do something and then just say, I'm not gonna do it.

And so right now I'm just at this spot where it's like, okay, the only way out is through. You just gotta work. Like, you just have to put in the time and effort to finish some stuff and then not pick up new stuff once, you know, once you've finished some stuff. So that's kinda there there's no there's no action items. I've just been thinking the past couple of weeks, honestly, that now is the time for me to finish some stuff and not take on not take on new stuff in its place for now.

Like, do you feel do you ever feel that cyclical desire, like, I have to do a ton of stuff and then you get all that stuff on your plate, and then you're like, okay, I need to start offloading, and then it comes back and forth. Do you feel that as well?

Colleen

Oh, absolutely.

Aaron

Okay. That's good.

Colleen

For me oh, go ahead.

Aaron

I was just gonna say that that I mean, that's that's about it. There's nothing like no big revelations, except that I want to do the things that I said I was gonna do. Okay. And so that's why I'm really glad that, like, we're writing like, we're agreeing on stuff, we're writing it down, because that's good for me. Because if I commit to doing something, I'm going to do it.

Even if even if I have to kill myself to get there, I'm gonna follow through with what I said to do. So that's good. And then also, like, the other realization is, yeah, this is a hard time, and the only way out is through. And you just gotta just gotta work. And, like, that can be okay for a short period of time.

Colleen

Right. You can't sustain that indefinitely. What what is your time commitment for your Laracast and your database adapter? Are you looking at that taking 6 months? Is that gonna take 3 months?

Is that gonna take

Aaron

Yeah. You know, the database adapter is moving pretty quickly. I spent most of Saturday working on that, and that I'm just, like, super vibing on. Like, it's totally if there were a better Venn diagram of things that I could do, I don't know what it would be. Like, it's Laravel.

It's deep database. It's deep PHP, and it's like I'm just moving. I don't think it's gonna last too much longer because of how quickly it's moving. So I don't anticipate that being 6 months by any means. And I think it needs to be said that, like, this is at the behest of a company, and so it won't be necessarily some sort of, like, open source thing that I'm maintaining into infinity.

They may ask me to help them maintain it in the future, but it's not, I'm not just doing it for giggles. Like, I'm doing it for a company, so there's resources behind it that they could potentially take over. Lyric has has a hard deadline. I mean, I'm staring down the barrel of a May 4th deadline for them.

Colleen

Oh, wow.

Aaron

Yeah. Yeah. So that is definitely on my mind. And I think I mean, I'm I'm going to hit it, no matter what. But I I think I can do that without killing myself.

Like, I think there can be a solid week of nighttime recording, and I can then edit it all on a Saturday and be good. And that's gonna be a good one to like, I love that that's so time bound and so discreet because once it's done, it's done.

Colleen

Right? Yeah.

Aaron

And it'll be out there and I'll be thrilled to have done it. And I will also decide I'm not gonna do another one of those for a long time. So that's where those 2 kinda live.

Colleen

Okay. Do you okay. So those are both pretty time boxed, which is good, to your point. It's nice to have that discreet deadline. Are there other are are they gonna want is the database adapter company gonna want you to consult for them?

I mean, that would be a good place to say no, I think, too. Those kinds of little things Yeah. Yeah. To try to keep them on.

Aaron

This is funny. Have you been talking to my wife? No. Not at No. Not at all.

I feel like she and I had this conversation last night. Yeah. No. I I agree. I don't I don't know that they're gonna want me to consult for them.

They may want me to help them maintain, like, address open PRs or anything on because the the driver I'm writing will be open source, but they will own it. It is their intellectual property. And so it will be an open source GitHub repo, but it's not gonna be under Aaron Francis or Hammerstone or anything. It's gonna be under single store.

Colleen

Okay.

Aaron

So we do have an agreement with, like, a scope of work that was agreed to, you know, back in January of, like, here's what I am doing. Here's how much time I think it will take, and here's what you will get at the end. And so once that is over, it will be an another, like, an open question of, alright. Well, now we have this thing. What do we do long term?

And I think that could be a good place for me to say, like, I can't I can't, like, consult with your Laravel clients to help them get this set up. Like, that's off the table. Right. But what is on the table? I don't know.

So

Colleen

So if you had to prioritize this, how would how would you prioritize it? And by this, I mean, all of these 5 things that you're doing.

Aaron

So I think number philosophically, number one thing that I want to do is finish

Colleen

things.

Aaron

And so to me, that is finished the laracast course, finished the single store driver. And I want to do both of those things well and, you know, with excellence, but I want to finish them. I want to get them off my plate. And so I think the prioritizing based on time, it's those two things. Prioritizing based on long term, success or, like, long term future future potential is hammer stone.

Right?

Colleen

Yeah. This

Aaron

and that's all outside of, you know, Tupelo, obviously. Tupelo is yeah. Tupelo is number 2. Family is number 1. What I'm prioritizing is this other stuff that needs prioritizing.

Colleen

So to me, this sounds manageable because both of those have discrete end dates, and they will be done, and then they will be gone. Do you feel like that is true?

Aaron

I do feel like that is true. I do feel like if I had known everything I know now, I would have not taken on 1 or the other. I don't know which one because I want to do them both. That's the hard part. But I do feel like where I'm at now, they're both doable.

I can deliver both things and make both stakeholders very happy, and it will then be done. However, that's not gonna be a walk in the park. That's gonna be a lot of work to get there, which is fine. I can do that for a certain period.

Colleen

So it looks like I just wanna make sure I'm wrapping my head around this. For the next month or 2, but not longer than that.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Colleen

You just have to kill yourself to get it done. Okay. So that seems and the reason I'm harping on this is because I've met a lot of founders, and I think I told you, they tend to have one thing in common.

Aaron

What is that thing? That we're all healthy and well adjusted?

Colleen

Burnout and divorce. So let's make sure as we build this business, neither of us have that problem.

Aaron

Yeah. That would be the ultimate worst case scenario for sure.

Colleen

But it's it's pretty I don't wanna say pretty common, but kind of.

Aaron

Yeah.

Colleen

So, I just think it's really important that both of us, as we build this business together, are mindful of that. Because you probably remember, you and I recorded an episode together, gosh, 8 months ago, and I asked you what you wanted. And do you remember what you told me?

Aaron

I don't. But if I'm true to like, if I'm internally consistent, I would probably say to be happy.

Colleen

That's exactly what you said.

Aaron

Said. I am pretty internally consistent, so it doesn't surprise me.

Colleen

Remember the life goal. I think it's just remember the life goal. Okay. That's I'm really glad you told me what you got going on. And honestly Yeah.

Aaron

And I I don't wanna I don't wanna scare you. Everything's totally fine. Those are just things I've been thinking about of, like, wow. Yeah. The only way out is through right now.

And that's, like, that's hard, but that's okay.

Colleen

Yeah. I think I think yeah. I think it's good to talk about it so we both know where we are. And like what I'm hearing from you is you're fine. You're just letting me know this is going on.

I can we can still your for a hammerstone perspective, like, you can still work at the the level you have been working at. You just let me know. And I I appreciate that, and I think that's really good to have that conversation. I kind of feel like like I've lived through that too. Like, when I was learning to code and building up the consultancy, it was the same thing.

Like, it was just I worked all the time. And then for like 2 years, I just coasted because I was exhausted. Like, I worked a full time job at like 40 hours a week, right? And you're like, oh, this is so relaxing.

Aaron

I know. Isn't that crazy?

Colleen

So weird. So I, I totally understand where you are, and I agree. I'm like you. Like, I just wanna get it done. Like, we're just gonna do what we have to do to get it done as long as we make sure our family can support that.

Sounds like you've talked to your wife and she's on board with, you know, the next couple of months just being crazy. And then after that, you can you'll have those 2 really big tasks off your plate, and you'll be back to just 3 jobs instead of 5. Yeah.

Aaron

Which is much more manageable.

Colleen

Which is so much more manageable.

Aaron

Yeah. Good. Well, thanks for responding that way. Like I said, nothing's wrong. I just wanted to I've been

Colleen

Yeah.

Aaron

Been mulling and I wanted to share.

Colleen

Do you have the book? I feel like I asked you something else about children's books last week. Do you have going on a bear hunt?

Aaron

Gonna catch a big one. Yeah.

Colleen

Yeah. Remember? It's just like a metaphor. Go read it again. It's like a metaphor for life because they hit the they hit the field, and they're like, you can't go over it.

You can't go under it. You have to go through it.

Aaron

Oh, my gosh. I gotta go read that right

Colleen

now. Yeah. Every time I read that book, I'm like, my kids think I'm nuts. Right? Like, it's a metaphor for life.

You just have to go through the hard thing. You can't go over it. You can't go under it. And they're like, whatever, mom.

Aaron

Yeah. I would have said the same thing. I did not pick up on that. Mostly just focused on, like, don't hit your sister.

Colleen

Oh my goodness.

Aaron

Truly, truly, it's more don't hit your brother. She's the one with the the flailing arms.

Colleen

Doing all the hitting. Oh, okay. Yeah. That sounds good. Just keep me posted on how that goes.

And we and we we, as a partnership, can adjust if we need to too. I think the next month for Hammerstone, like, you're not gonna have any super highly technical unless you have to spin up Laravel Nova real 4 real fast because someone wants it. I don't think we're gonna have a lot of super technical stuff on your side. So it should be, you know, not too Yeah. Taxing from that.

It'll be like marketing stuff and emails, but I think that'll be good since what you're doing for these other companies are so super technical right now.

Aaron

Right. And I think the only thing that this informs for us is my ability to contribute to the workshop, and it informs that I won't be able to contribute that much.

Colleen

That's totally fine.

Aaron

To the to the prep. Yeah.

Colleen

So I I think I I'm totally fine. I mean, honestly, if you don't wanna go, you don't have to go. But just Oh, no.

Aaron

I think Okay. I think it'll be great.

Colleen

Because because that was the first thing I thought when you started telling the story. Not the story. When you started telling about your life.

Aaron

When you started telling about your sad, sad story. I

Colleen

did not say that.

Aaron

No. I think it'll be fine.

Colleen

Is okay. Because if you don't wanna go, like, you don't have to come.

Aaron

No. I I do wanna go. And I also think it'll be really good for me from a tuple aspect to, like, meet through these rails. Yeah. These rails people in person.

Like, I've been friendly with many of them online, but, like, there are rails boot camps and rails workshops. And, like, I would like to know these people from a tupel perspective. So I think it'll it'll pull double duty.

Colleen

Okay. Yeah. And really, I think that's totally fine. I think your plan of you're gonna do a little sparkles up front, you know, color commentary.

Aaron

Work the crowd.

Colleen

Work the crowd a little color commentary. And then, yeah. I I think that's totally fine. I I have no issues with that. That's that's gonna work out.

Alright.

Aaron

Alright. Let's wrap it there.