Your Computer Is Your Sanctuary

Ian

Hello.

Aaron

Good morning, Ian. How we doing? We are ready.

Ian

We got a lot to cut.

Aaron

We got a lot to cover.

Ian

We got

Aaron

a The list is long today.

Ian

It's a big episode. Where do where do we wanna start? We wanna do a little we wanna do a little how's your weekend? We wanna dive right in. What do you wanna do?

Oh, man. How's your week? I don't think we have time for how's your weekend.

Aaron

I don't think we can.

Ian

Follow-up. We got all kinds of stuff. Maybe we'll

Aaron

hit do

Ian

how's your weekend as we go. But, too much going on. Alright. So we do have some mailbag. This will be a quick one, but Travis Northcutt, friend of the show, and Larabelle friend.

He did have a little follow-up on the conversation. Okay. He wanted to know if we've ever seen where somebody in a 1 on 1 message just drops a but, like, just randomly drops 's all the time. Like, his his example was it's, like, mapped to their period key where so it's not, like, in the context of a funny conversation. Oh, interesting.

Just I guess you're just typing, and then you're like, I don't know.

Aaron

Well, that's interesting.

Ian

That feels a little bit you know, I haven't had a lot of experience with that, but that does feel a little bit

Aaron

like it's undercutting the message. Like, you

Ian

you wanna say something, but you don't want it to be taken too seriously. You're like, hey.

Aaron

Do you think you could respond to that email? You're like,

Ian

I think that's exactly what's going on. Yeah. I think you I think you straight nailed that. It's like, yes. It's not funny.

So what's it about? Well, yeah, it's trying to to cut it a little bit, something a little heavier. Yeah. Lighten the tone maybe or something.

Aaron

Yeah. So, Travis, whoever Yeah. Whoever's doing that to you is afraid to say what there is really on their mind. That's that's the issue.

Ian

Yeah. We are going deep. We are deep here today.

Aaron

Wow. Oh,

Ian

this is why we don't have time for how's your weekend?

Aaron

We have stuff to do.

Ian

We got important topics. Alright. Oh, YouTube is a little more, like, kinda in terms of the

Aaron

show stuff too. I was looking at the YouTube channel, and I noticed there are several comments across the many episodes that I just didn't even know existed. And it's good it's good stuff. It's like responding to the issues at hand. And so first, oops.

Sorry about that. We will check those. Yeah. Our bad. We'll check those more religiously.

And second, I love YouTube comments. I'm big YouTube guy now. So go I know. Go leave comments on YouTube. Now that, now that I know I should check the channel, I will check the channel.

So find us on YouTube as well.

Ian

Yeah. And we're up almost to a 100 a 100 subs up there, so subscribe on YouTube.

Aaron

That's right. We're gonna get we're gonna get a silver play button to share. We only have

Ian

Nice. 900 and no. Yeah.

Aaron

I think 99,900 more to go. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. 99,000. That's not that many. We can do

Aaron

not that many. You know how many people are in the world?

Ian

A lot.

Aaron

A lot of that.

Ian

It's one of those things where as you you if you just keep the growth, like, a little bit a little bit at a time, then it starts to think up a little more.

Aaron

That's right.

Ian

Go exponential. And we're pretty our our feeds look nice. Like, we're we're we're ready. We're not the shepherd.

Aaron

We got art. We got it's perfect. Yeah. It's only a matter of time.

Ian

We're ready for YouTube. Alright. Well, then speaking of YouTube, I feel like we should talk about you have yet another YouTube property. So

Aaron

let's talk

Ian

about that.

Aaron

So You

Ian

just can't get enough YouTube.

Aaron

I just can't get enough YouTube. YouTube's YouTube's the quadrant I'm headed towards right now. So Right. On Friday, I published the first episode of Last Week Next Week, which kind of a great name. Love the name.

It's a good name.

Ian

It's a good name.

Aaron

Although, I will say some people came up with better names. I think somebody did, recap pre recap, precap, and someone else did, push pop, which I think is pretty clever. So

Ian

Yeah. I like last week, next week.

Aaron

Oh, wow. That's great.

Ian

Hey. I appreciate that.

Aaron

Yeah. So last week, next week is, a solo show, just me Mhmm. Where I talk about all the things I did last week and all the things I'm planning to do next week. And so the theory is from friend of the show, Matt Swanson, who has the most, like, the most right down the middle hot takes, And it's he he always has his hot takes like, hey, the easiest way to get 10,000 MRRs to get a job. And you're like, woah.

Hot take. And then you realize, oh, that's yeah. That's pretty vanilla. So his most recent mild spicy take was all of these Bootstrapper ride along podcasts of which I have been a part and you have been a part. Sure.

But there are so there are so many these days, and all of them from his perspective are very, they they they waffle a lot. They spend so much time talking about, wow. What am I gonna do? How do we do this? What if this happens?

Right. Instead of just, like, taking action on

Ian

things. Yep.

Aaron

And so his take was y'all gotta just stop hemming and hawing and start taking action. And I read that, and I thought, you know, that was oh, if I was still doing the Hammerstone podcast, I'd feel called out about that because that was 100% the case when I was doing that. It was always like, I don't know. What happens?

Ian

What should we do? Yeah.

Aaron

Exactly. Instead of just, like, f it. Let's try something. We'll figure out what happens.

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

And so I read that, and I thought, hey, that's a good because I feel like this show that we do is very we cover just, like, the surface of that of, hey. What did you get up to? But not, like, the kind of the boring nitty gritty because, hey. We're a comedy show. Right?

We gotta entertain the people. Exactly.

Ian

And And so different setup. Yeah. Our setup's a little different than the traditional version of that, which I think is is what's part of the part what's interesting to me about it.

Aaron

Yeah. It's not a pure we're not doing a pure ride along where it's like, I did this thing. We're doing a little bit of that, but more topical. And so I just turned on the camera and was like, alright. I'm gonna do this as a solo.

You know, Caleb Porzio has his one man podcast, which I enjoy listening to. And I thought I could do this as a solo, and instead of just doing a podcast, I thought why don't I put it on YouTube? Yep. Because I do wanna have a place to, like, do more, like, long form behind the scenes stuff and not just, you know, PHP videos, which is my personal channel. And so I did the first one.

And I was really proud of myself because I I read this tweet and I thought I should I should do that. And then I thought, oh, oh, yeah. I should spend a bunch of time figuring out the right format and figuring out, like, exactly how to make this into a property. And then I

Ian

thought, wait, hold on. The whole point Right.

Aaron

The whole point is to take action. And so I just freaking did it and published it. And so now every every Friday, I'm gonna do a I'm gonna do a last or this week, next week, and I'm gonna put it on YouTube, and it's gonna be a rundown. And so yeah. That's good.

I I loved it. I got a lot of good feedback from it. So thoughts.

Ian

So I I actually because of the busy busy weekend, we didn't get even a chance to talk about. I have not actually, watched it yet, but I do like the idea, definitely. Is it gonna be an actual is it gonna be a podcast and YouTube, or it's just YouTube?

Aaron

Yeah. So that plan is to make it audio as well.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

I'm told there are pretty easy ways to strip out, a YouTube feed into audio and turn it into a podcast.

Ian

Automate it. Yeah.

Aaron

Yeah. But Now right now right now, it's just YouTube.

Ian

My bigger question was and I don't know. I guess it alright. So I guess, well, I'll ask you the question first. Why not put it on your main channel?

Aaron

Right. So from what I've read, and this is, this is like I've absorbed it over, you know, the past 6 months or a year. YouTube likes to, much like Google, likes to know what your channel is about and what your ideal audience for the channel is. In the same way yeah. In the same way that YouTube or I'm sorry.

Google wants to know what your site is about. Just generally, what is your website about? And so from what I understand, you'll see people like the Primagen or that JavaScript guy, Theo. He'll they'll do, like, separate channels for their React content. When I say air quotes react, which is, like, where they read articles and, like, react to them, which whatever.

But from my understanding, my main channel, the audience is going to be very well defined as web developers, maybe even PHP enthusiasts. And I don't wanna pepper it also with, like, bootstrapping stuff, screencasting stuff, like, behind the scenes organizing stuff. And so I just separated that out into a different channel.

Ian

Got it. Yeah. I guess that makes sense. It's also kind of irrelevant in some ways these days, I guess. Right?

Because it's, like, whatever. You just push to the one, you push to the other. It's all sort of similar, other than yeah. I guess the, like, where to find all your stuff then becomes a little bit of an issue, but,

Aaron

I agree.

Ian

Not the end of the world.

Aaron

You know, the pages thinking about it mentally is, like, main Aaron Francis' main channel is PHP slash JavaScript web developer content. PlanetScale channel obviously is database content. So anytime I have, like, a database idea, I know already, oh, that one's gotta go to PlanetScale 1 for the audience. 2, that's, like, full time job. So all all of my, you know, best database energy goes over there.

Yeah. And then the behind the scenes channel is, like, this, this week, next week. And if I ever do any if I ever do any, like, how I manage, you know, bookkeeping for multiple projects, which I haven't figured out yet, that kind of stuff will go on that channel. Right.

Ian

To the catch all spot. It's like what your personal blog used to be, but now Yes. Personal blogs are dead. So we have YouTube that also maybe spins off into a podcast as Exactly. Personal blog.

Aaron

Yeah. So I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to, like, hone the machine a little bit, and I feel like the the this week, next week is kind of a, like, diversification from Twitter exclusively. Mhmm. Because I have found as much as I like as much as I try to have no opinion on the changes at Twitter because they're so outside of my control, I don't wanna spend any time, like, complaining about the algorithm because, like Right. Like, like, dude, he's got I mean, that just feels like such a risk.

So I'm trying to you know, the the this week, next week thing is kinda like a packaging or distillation of, like, a week's worth of me being on Twitter, but on YouTube and a little more structured style. So, yeah, that's kind of the thought. And I I think I think it's probably good for me to diversify and hopefully funnel people to, like, an email list, which I have not done a very good job of.

Ian

Good time. Yeah. I wanna have an email list that makes sense. I get all the benefits, blah blah blah blah. Man, I don't know.

It's just got no juice. You know? It's just no juice to write that email every

Aaron

week. I know. I know. And so I'm hoping part of what I'm hoping is, like, I'm doing enough activity that the email list can Right. Be a little bit self driving, and it's it's less of like, hey.

Here are my thoughts on philosophy in life and more like, hey. Here's everything I did around the web this week. Like, I Right. Published 3 videos, and I, you know, did this cool exploration and, like Yeah. Hopefully, that's kinda what the email list can be.

Ian

Yeah. Side question then. On PlanetScale, you know, YouTube content and so on, like, how do you actually structure that? Like, is do you have, like, a you're trying to do 1 a week. You're trying to do 1 every 2 week.

Like, is there an actual quota?

Aaron

Yeah. There's cadence now. So when my boss came back from maternity leave, so when Holly came back, she and I sat down and were like, hey. I told her, I kinda wanna take this YouTube thing seriously. I think we have an opportunity here, because the little that we have done is working really well.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

And so she and I put together some goals, and our goal right now is just, like, blitz our way to as many subscribers as possible. Right. And so that has, for the past several weeks, looked like 2 videos a week, 2 long form videos a week.

Ian

That much? Oh, wow. I mean, I realized it was a lot. Man. Holy cow.

Aaron

Okay. This week, we're changing it slightly to do one long form 1 much longer form video this week, because we're still, like, we're still super new to figuring out YouTube, and we're trying to figure out what does the algorithm want. And what I'm reading and noticing so far is watch time is maybe weighted more highly than I, like, knew. And so instead of making instead of making these cute, like, 7 minute videos, I'm trying to make an in-depth, you know, 25 minute video that is still you can still skip around. Like, it's still kinda segmented.

But, hopefully, the the idea there is that people watch, you know, 30% of a 20 minute video instead of 30% of a 7 minute video. So this week, we're doing 1 a week and or one this week. And then our goal my like, my I don't have KPIs. We don't like, we're not that rigid, but my goal is by the end of the year to hit a certain subscriber count for PlanetScale.

Ian

Right. And then so I guess that my other question was because I don't think we were really talked about in the show is, like, is that your full time job just doing YouTube videos? But I guess, I mean, if you're doing 2 a week, it definitely

Aaron

Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Big time. Yeah.

Yeah. So that is my full time job is video content. There is a second course that I'm working on for PlanetScale that I'm getting a lot of help from my coworker, Brian, on on researching. Because the first course I did, I did all of the research and content planning, and that was just, like, such a freaking slog. So this time, I've got Brian helping me out with the research, and he's just putting together these amazing packets for me that I can then study and do videos on.

But that course is gonna be on, like, scaling and sharding. And so that won't go on YouTube, but that'll be, like, our own property that'll be gated, and we'll get, you know, emails for that. And so, yeah, right now, I'm just full I'm just full on video video video video.

Ian

Yeah. Man, you're just, like, in front of the camera all day long at

Aaron

this time. Crazy. Am. Yeah. It's crazy.

Ian

It's like yeah. Wow. Okay. Awesome. Well, we'll keep an eye.

I think I wrote last week next week in my sleepy haze that I wrote this down in, but it's this week next week.

Aaron

Well, I think it started as last week next week.

Ian

Oh, okay. So maybe that was right.

Aaron

And then I and then I thought, like, wait. If I'm gonna do it on Friday, Friday is still this week. Because I thought, you know, at some point

Ian

at times, I'll I'll do

Aaron

it I'll do it on Monday, and then it would be last week this week. And it should never be last week next week. That's for sure. Because then

Ian

you're existing in Ignore this week. Space.

Aaron

Yeah. So it's called this week, next week. Yeah.

Ian

Well, okay. Well, this we're gonna go on a little tangent. Here we go. Because I I have I have a beef in this area. I'm curious what your thoughts are.

What is so I think then you think about the way I think about it, which is this week. So there is people in the world who believe that if you're looking at a calendar Mhmm. That, like, this Tuesday is the Tuesday in the next week, and next Tuesday is the one beyond that. And to me, this Tuesday is whatever Tuesday is this week. And then next Tuesday is always at most, like, a week away.

Like, it can never be 2 weeks away next week.

Aaron

So let let's let's concretize this. So if it's Friday Yes. If it's Friday and I say, alright. This Tuesday, what do I mean? We're sitting on Friday.

We exist on Friday. And I say, this Tuesday

Ian

I think I would take that as the upcoming Tuesday.

Aaron

The Tuesday in front of us?

Ian

Yes. But I would say next Tuesday is the same thing.

Aaron

Next Tuesday is the same thing. I would agree. Yes. Yes. Next next

Ian

next Tuesday is always the next

Aaron

Tuesday.

Ian

That is so obvious to me. Right?

Aaron

Yes. If I'm on

Ian

Friday can't be the Tuesday after the the next Tuesday. Like, the

Aaron

No.

Ian

Make any sense. No. If I'm on Friday and I say next Tuesday, that is the next Tuesday. In 4 days. Right.

Aaron

In 4 days. Yes.

Ian

Yes. Alright.

Aaron

We'll do

Ian

it again.

Aaron

Yeah. I oh, man. I've had this

Ian

We're gonna get feedback on that. Oh, I've had this conversation with

Aaron

so many they are out there, and they're so wrong.

Ian

They're so wrong. How do they live? How do they get

Aaron

bond in the world? Way. Yeah. I don't know.

Ian

Are they just showing up a week late for everything all the time? I don't know. Probably.

Aaron

Yeah. That that yeah, that blows my mind.

Ian

It is funny that at a

Aaron

certain point in the week, this and next are the same Tuesday, but that's not always the case.

Ian

Right. I agree. I agree.

Aaron

So if you're on Monday

Ian

Monday. And you Yes.

Aaron

Monday, this Tuesday is tomorrow, and next Tuesday is 8 days away.

Ian

Oh. I think if you're on Monday, I I think I might go with that. It's close. What do you think about that one?

Aaron

I think it's I think if you're on Monday, next Tuesday is 8 days away.

Ian

Yeah. That's I agree.

Aaron

Which falls outside of your 7 day rule.

Ian

Well, yes. That's true. But it's still it's

Aaron

more like it's not

Ian

14 days. Right? It's like Yes. There is some middle ground there that is the context is so important. You have to have the context.

Aaron

Yes. I agree. Oh, that's a good one. We're gonna get feedback on that one. Yeah.

Ian

That's big trouble. Yeah. Alright. What do you wanna do next? I think we might have some beef.

If since we're happy and together on that one, I think we're gonna beef on this next one if we go Alright. Go to text.com.

Aaron

Oh, you don't like text.com?

Ian

No. I don't like text.com.

Aaron

What? Oh, wow. I thought this was gonna I thought this was gonna be like a jam session. I didn't realize we were gonna have beef.

Ian

Oh, Oh, we got beef.

Aaron

Text.com, little desktop app that I use and love, apparently incorrectly, according to Ian. But here's here's how I use it. I funnel, I funnel my Imessage, my, Twitter DMs, my Telegram, and then some stupid stuff like LinkedIn DMs, and, like, Facebook Messenger, which I only get messages from my mom on there. Right. I don't funnel Slack because that is insane.

It's a mental illness to put all of your Slack in text.com.

Ian

For sure.

Aaron

Okay. And so the reason I like it is because you can leave stuff unread, and it's a nice centralized place to respond to things quickly. So I have a problem sometimes keeping up with, like, specifically Twitter DMs. People DM me and I look at it, and then I'm like, I will respond to that later. Especially if I look at it on my phone, and I'm like, I'm not responding to that right now.

And then it's gone forever, and then I'm a bad guy, and I feel guilty, which, you know, separate issue. But Yeah. I like having the unified inbox and the ability to respond quickly from my desktop all in one place. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Ian

Alright. So here's the thing. I I love the idea of that. Right? Like, I certainly would like obviously, we all have the 7 places that we're getting notifications and where we're trying to meet up with people and whatever.

So I do like the idea for sure. But this text.com, like, I feel like there is, like, just an inherent, security level required to pull this off successfully. And Uh-huh. Text to dotcom to me is way, way low on that bar of, like Really? Of trustworthiness.

I mean, first of all, there's no company on the website. They do have a great domain. I will give them that.

Aaron

Yeah. I see.

Ian

Go go to screen copy.com and

Aaron

then buy the course right now.

Ian

There's no company. There's nothing.

Aaron

If there's no privacy

Ian

policy, there's no company. If you cannot find the name of a company on that website, you can Well, there's

Aaron

a TLDR there's a TLDR on the privacy policy. That means they're one of us. They're like, cool. They're hip. Right?

Ian

This is my point. This is like really very it's it's, it's let me see. I mean no. Yeah. There's nothing even in, even in the terms of use.

Okay. There's bargia ink is the only thing. It's in the terms of use. It's got no contact information.

Aaron

What what's the word? Bard?

Ian

B. Bargaria?

Aaron

Oh, you're thinking of Bulgaria. That's a place, in.

Ian

No. No. No. No. No, man.

If you go into terms of use and you scroll all the way to the bottom where there's usually, like, a company name

Aaron

Mhmm. And,

Ian

like, the address of the company and their phone number

Aaron

and all

Ian

of things like that. Bagaria. Bagaria Inc. With no contact information of any sort. It just feels

Aaron

That is pretty chaotic. That's a pretty chaotic email address too.

Ian

Thing is pretty shady. And, like I mean, okay. I get on the on the marketing website, it says we do not, you know, see your messages. We send them to the platforms. But I mean, that's just some marketing copy they wrote on that page.

Like, I feel like I have a pretty high level of of standard here for do I believe that you are totally on the top and not messing with my messages or reading them or storing them or anything else. And there's, like, nothing here to make me trust this thing at all. Now, I mean, Twitter I don't give a crap about Twitter. Like, whatever. You could like, using this for Twitter and Facebook, it's like, okay.

Whatever. Like but see to me, like, Imessage then that's like a different story. Like, I feel like because if I get an Imessage, I know that there's a certain level of authenticity to that message. Right? Whereas now if it's going through this thing, can I trust that?

Can I trust they're not storing it somewhere? I do not trust them in that way. So that's my beef with that is that I don't think this is trustworthy enough to put all your stuff through. And your state. And I'm not really a big, like, ultra worried about security in general, but when it comes to, like, this sort of thing, I think it's just not it the the burden of proof is high for them, and this is a they have not met that They have not met that burden.

Aaron

Yeah. You know, Ian, I'm gonna be honest. Didn't once cross my mind.

Ian

Like, useful tool will implement. I was like, yeah. Internet. I love the Internet. This is awesome.

This makes the Internet better.

Aaron

Okay. Well, that's surely interesting, isn't it? So Bagaria Inc is, named after the founder, Keyshawn Bagaria.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

Who's on Twitter as Kishan Bagheria. Nice. So he's a real he's a real person.

Ian

He's a human.

Aaron

He's a human or, you know, they are pretending to be a human. Nah. I can't hear you. They're also on they're also on LinkedIn as Kishan Bagheria. Let's see.

Ian

They might have there is a text oh, yeah. Okay. So they've raised money. So, okay. That's a little that's a little something.

It's a little more Everybody good? Semi real, investor. Oh, okay. There's only one investor. That's some

Aaron

random Schottenberg area.

Ian

Yeah. That's basically Schottenberg area. That's, like, That's basically

Aaron

good job, Gary. That's, like, exactly what it is.

Ian

Yeah. No. It's some Claire Diaz Ortiz, but I mean, this it's not a VC of

Aaron

That doesn't sound like an arms Just a transaction.

Ian

To me. A rando. Yeah. It's just a rando. Okay.

Aaron

So, you know,

Ian

this is quite interesting too because I've been doing a lot more work. We've been working on getting SOC 2 compliant. And so just like and, you know, when you run a SaaS, like, you're not in the SaaS game. So, like, when you run a SaaS player, there is a little more maybe

Aaron

I don't have to care about anything.

Ian

Right. It's like your computer is your sanctuary, and obviously people are trying to get on there because then you have keys to all the good news and all that stuff. So you're trying to have some extra layers of protection there. And so, but I mean, even for a person, obviously, it's obviously super annoying if you get hacked and, whatnot. They could wreck your channel or, you know, whatever.

Obviously, you're an employee at a company. Like, there's still, like, potential security vulnerabilities there. So, anyway, this stuff's been on my mind more in general. But, but, yeah, even before that, I saw this, and I was like, nah. Nah.

Yeah. You really you hate to hear that.

Aaron

I was having fun having everything in one inbox, and now I'm like

Ian

No. It's okay. I don't wanna I don't wanna rule for you.

Aaron

Yeah. I don't

Ian

know. It's probably fine. Right? It's like it's like most things on the Internet. Like, it's probably fine.

Like, it's 90% chance it's fine, but there's 10% chance it's not fine. And there's also even the, like, in between of that, which is, like, maybe this dude is totally fine. He's completely legit. Everything's encrypted and wonderful. Right?

But what is this dude's security situation?

Aaron

Right.

Ian

Like, what if somebody hacks him and they hacked this? And the you know, like, the whole line hiding in this app. Right? And this app is a gigantic target. Like, who wouldn't want access to this app to to gather this information maliciously?

Right? So it's not even that. It's this guy. Like, this guy may could be totally on the up and up. He probably is totally on the up and down.

But he is a huge target. And how seriously does he take his security and all those things? So, yeah. So that's where it gets a little bit trickier. You know, it's not quite the same as like Microsoft offering this or Cloudflare offering this this or something like that, which obviously they could have problems too when they're huge targets, but they also have thousands of people dedicated to securing everything.

Whereas, like, a guy doesn't have anybody have

Aaron

He's got he's got a name, Ian.

Ian

His name is Kishan.

Aaron

Not just a guy.

Ian

Kishan Gary. His name is, Robert. What's his name?

Aaron

How do

Ian

they say that in Fight Club? I can't remember.

Aaron

Oh, no spoilers. I haven't seen Fight Club yet.

Ian

Unbelievable. It's just unbelievable. I don't even know what the hell we're doing on here. We gotta we gotta just sit you down, and we gotta watch movies.

Aaron

I haven't seen Fight Club, and I haven't seen Braveheart. So

Ian

Oh my god. Yeah. What the fuck is going on? Yeah. Sorry.

I saw Gladiator, though. I like Gladiator a lot.

Aaron

So kinda seems different.

Ian

I love Gladiator.

Aaron

Yeah. Not really. I mean, they

Ian

they did come out together. I know. There was a they were I think Gladiator and and, and Braveheart were of a similar time, and they were, like, kind of a thing together, I think, if not.

Aaron

And not the other. It's like seeing Barbie and not Oppenheimer. I actually haven't

Ian

seen either of those movies. So

Aaron

I know. Yeah. I know. Well, text.com. That sucks, doesn't it?

Ian

There you go.

Aaron

Go. Somebody somebody please write in and tell me why I'm right to use text.com because I wanna continue to use it.

Ian

There you go. You wanna feel good about it?

Aaron

I wanna feel good about it. I'm I'm told that all of the messages go directly to the services. I guess I should

Ian

install, like marketing page.

Aaron

I should install a little snitch or something on my app or on my Mac to see every outgoing request. That might be interesting.

Ian

An interesting idea. You could do a little, research for the pod here.

Aaron

And I could. I'm not going to, but I definitely could.

Ian

Jerry, you could. Yeah. Theoretically, someone could.

Aaron

Oh, man. That's too bad. I didn't expect beef. You know? So that's good.

It's makes for good radio.

Ian

Beef. Just, you know, just trying to I

Aaron

don't know.

Ian

Just watching out for you, man. Just watching.

Aaron

Hey. I appreciate that. I'm not gonna change my behavior, but I do appreciate the thought. Yeah.

Ian

Understand. Yeah. Alright. What else we got here? I'm gonna go to next.

We got a list. We got a list still. We could

Aaron

do we could do a Remotion TypeScript React rundown because those all seem those all seem pretty close.

Ian

Alright. Let's do it. Let's go.

Aaron

You wanna do that? I picked up Remotion for this this week, next week thing. I'm really new to this,

Ian

so tell me all that.

Aaron

I saw your It's a JavaScript library that allows you to create video, like, real full on MP 4 video, using React. And so it's like programmable video. So the the setup is basically, they give you, like, a canvas, and you get to draw DOM nodes, and do JavaScript, and all that. And then they will render it out frame by frame by frame, and stitch it all together and turn it into an m p 4. So very very cool very very cool concepts because then you can do stuff like you can interpolate movement over, you know, 60 frames, or you can do, like, animations and be like, alright.

If I'm on this frame, move the x position by this much. And so they give you what frame you're on out of how many frames. And so basically, you end up doing a lot of math, and you can just, like, have stuff fly around on the screen, and it's very, very cool. You can use, like, full on tailwind.

Ian

It's local or it's a SaaS type thing?

Aaron

It's local. It's local. So you you start a new project. So the way that I did it so it's it's a it's a React thing. So already, I'm like, man, f this.

I don't wanna freaking do this. So I, you know, npm whatever create project, Remotion. And it, like, makes this directory for me, sets up all the the nice thing is they have a very good onboarding, I will admit. It sets up, like, the package JSON and some scaffolding, and then you just, like, run NPM, you know, run start or whatever. Right.

And it opens up this, like, almost looks like ScreenFlow, but, like, this timeline viewer editor in your browser on local hosts, which, like, hey, cool. Good start. And they give you a, like, root composition, basically, like a, you know, canvas or whatever. And you go in there, and you start, like, alright. I'm gonna add a hello world div.

Like, it's really cool because it's literally, you know, a web page. I'm gonna add a hello world, and then you go back to the browser, and it's like, oh, my movie is now rendering with hello world on the screen. That's neat.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

And so then what where I took it was, alright. I've got this list of topics that I wanna do for the this week, next week show, and I'm gonna have them, like, kinda like a sports center crawl on the left side. Be like, alright. I'll talk about this and then this and then this.

Ian

Pardon the interruption

Aaron

style. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I, like, created this JSON object of, like, alright.

Here are all the topics, and here are their timestamps. Now how do I get it to do, like, a countdown and highlight the current topic that I'm on? And so it was it was really fun because it was one of those things where I'm like, I'm like shooting towards a goal, and along the way are things that I have to learn, which is how I how I've successfully learned most things in my life is, like

Ian

Right.

Aaron

I I want to get to a certain place, and to get there, I have to learn how to program. It's, like, great. I'll just learn how

Ian

to

Aaron

program then. Right. And that's what it felt like again. And I haven't felt that in a long time, because this, like, this was React. And I'm like, oh, I don't I literally don't It's more you'd never

Ian

use React.

Aaron

No. No. And I still

Ian

I promise this.

Aaron

I don't I don't use React. I use Remotion. Like, I just have it's just happens in implementation detail. Mhmm. And it was really, really fun.

And I have a lot of opinions about React that we'll get to, but Remotion is an incredibly incredibly good library and tool. And the ability to create video programmatically has always been, like, near and dear to my heart because I used to do that a long, long time ago, but not in such a clean sophisticated way. And so I was able to get this I guess, stayed up super late playing with it. And it's one of those things where it's like, oh, this is so fun.

Ian

And now

Aaron

I'm thinking, like, now I'm thinking, what all videos like,

Ian

what should

Aaron

I do with this? Now that I have this new power, what should I do with it? So very very fun.

Ian

And so you record the video first. Right? And then you do this to overlay to the video. Right?

Aaron

So in my use case, it is creating an overlay that I will export from Remotion, which they have full, like, exporting,

Ian

you know,

Aaron

workflow. I'll export from Remotion and then drop onto the ScreenFlow timeline. So I'll, like, do my this week, next week

Ian

I'd say.

Aaron

Recording, go through and chop out anything that I need to, and then put markers on all the time stamps, render my, video in remotion and then just like plop it on top of the timeline in ScreenFlow and export the entire thing. So you can export you can export transparent background videos.

Ian

I would just say it's exporting, like, the the frame of the text you've added and whatever, but not the actual video. And then you can still use your regular video flow for the Correct. Final output of the video.

Aaron

I don't I keep all of my, like, screen recordings and, video camera in ScreenFlow. And then Remotion will export the sports center style rundown. And then I can't with a transparent background, which is very, very cool, and then I can plop it on top.

Ian

Yep. Wow. That is awesome.

Aaron

Could do, like, lower thirds. You could do animations. You could do, frames. Like if you were doing a side by side podcast like this, you could, you know, program out certain stuff in Remotion and then plop it on top of our talking head videos. So the opportunity like, the the things you could do are pretty limitless.

I'm trying to think. Alright. This feels like a new, like, this feels like a new tool in my tool belt. How could I use this to my greatest advantage? And I don't know yet, but it's fun to think, oh, this is a whole new vector of things that I could do.

Ian

Yeah. I mean, especially for a talking head type video, like, it adds a layer of kind of visual interest and things like that. There's stuff going on besides

Aaron

just

Ian

your head on there.

Aaron

Yep.

Ian

Yeah. And then so it'll be like so I imagine you can make it kind of like you're building your little React app with usable components, and then, like, you can drop in a JSON file with, like, text and time stamps and, like, it can mostly just happen. Like, you might have to watch it once and tweak it or whatever, but there shouldn't be, like, tons of programming for every video. It's like once you have the the the construct, you can just add the data and all the go.

Aaron

So I've set it up such that everything that would change week to week in my use case is just in a JSON object. Right. Yeah. So I just put, like, the chapter titles and the time stamps, and it figures everything else out.

Ian

Right. Wow. That's really cool. That's amazing. It is cool.

It's so weird that that's, like, a desktop app too or, you know, a racked up. Like, you think it's a SaaS that you would do that. But I guess that is nice too since you have, like, the video local. It's like you're not there's a SaaS. You'd have to, like, upload the video and it becomes this whole other step and all that stuff.

Aaron

They have a pro tier, which is, like, rendering in the cloud. So, like, Lambda rendering. So I think they have a it's super cheap. It's, like, $10 for

Ian

Right.

Aaron

You know, however many minutes. But I think, you know, you're you're pretty constrained by resources on your local machine. But if you were to farm it out to 500 Lambdas, you could render an hour video in, you know, 30 seconds or whatever. Mhmm. And so that's a pretty I feel like that's a pretty natural business model for them, and I think that's really smart.

But I haven't I don't need that.

Ian

Right. People who are doing it more professionally or you're, yeah, trying to do a bunch of videos or something.

Aaron

Programmatically. Stuff like

Ian

you too.

Aaron

You know, Spotify wrapped maybe does. Like, a lot of user generated content fits this model super well where it's like, hey. You need to render 50,000 videos based on 50,000 rows in the database. Right. Yeah.

Set up your template and use Remotion, and then you can render it all. Yeah. So that's the thing I'm trying to think about. It's like, what's a data source that I could turn into video that would He didn't. Be interesting enough.

So yeah. I don't know. It's much much to consider, but it's very, very powerful.

Ian

I know. I can never get this deep into video, but I like this idea. This the idea is more makes the video more appealing to me in some ways because it's like yeah. It's like you can do I mean, I I always loved the part of the interruption, and they do have those, like, the list of things, and it's like the other topics there, and it's kind of fun. Yeah.

I don't know. I'm sure you'll come up with something. I imagine this will make an appearance in other places in your I hope

Aaron

so.

Ian

Quadrant of videos.

Aaron

Yes. Yeah. The whole thing, I didn't actually know as part of the interruption. Like I said, I don't watch SportsCenter, but I knew it was a SportsCenter thing.

Ian

SportsCenter might have it too, I think. I don't know.

Aaron

I I feel like it's, so the 1st week I did this overlay, I only had the active topic. And then I showed it to my wife, and I was like, I don't know. What do you think about this? And she was like, I I think I would like to see the the upcoming topics.

Ian

Oh, yeah.

Aaron

I got the upcoming topics. That makes way more sense so that people are like, I'm gonna sit around. He's about to talk about, you know, whatever. Mhmm. And so next week or this week rather, this week, we'll have the the active topic will will be at the top, but then you'll see, like, 4 or 5 of

Ian

the top topics. Needs to be. Yes.

Aaron

And then they'll move up. So it's like, hey. Please please keep watching.

Ian

There's more

Aaron

there's stuff the stuff you care about is coming. Yeah.

Ian

No. Definitely. That's the way to do it. She's doing it.

Aaron

It's fun. She's right. She's very smart. And she also doesn't watch SportsCenter, so she independently derived that. So she's extra smart.

Ian

Are you old enough to have, appreciated SportsCenter, like, when it was SportsCenter, or are you just a little too young for that?

Aaron

But I did not watch it.

Ian

Okay. So then you're not so you're not old enough. Because, like

Aaron

still lost on me. Yeah.

Ian

Yeah. It's lost on you. Because, like, sports center in its prime, like, a few if you were, like, 40. Right? Like, sports center in its prime, man, I mean, everybody watched SportsCenter.

Everybody. It was unbelievable. Just like every single if you were, like, 14 to, like, 45, like, you watch SportsCenter. Either they're, like, the it was, like, a 7 o'clock one or something. And then the 11 o'clock one was the real one because it was, like, a lot more highlights and scores and stuff, or there was, like, a 2 AM one, like, and sports center.

That was that was the the thing back in the day.

Aaron

I had friends that I think watched it. So I think my age is close, but I just didn't ever They're

Ian

still on the way down there.

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

That was, like, one of those things where we we had all these things back in the day where, like, everybody watched stuff. Like, everybody watched Seinfeld, and everybody watched SportsCenter every night. And everybody you know, it's like, whatever. There was these big things that were just universal. You know, not a 100% universal, but millions and millions of people all doing this, at the same time.

Aaron

And, you know, we're all watching our niche content, and we're stuck in our own heads.

Ian

And Yeah. Exactly.

Aaron

We used to be a society. You know?

Ian

I know. That's why my oldest kid is, like, super in this, like, whatever, different sports. And I try to explain sports center to him, and he's like, yeah, whatever. But whenever he's just there with ESPN.com or whatever, and he's

Aaron

like, look

Ian

at scores and get real time, you know, play by play and whatever. I was like, oh, no, man. You just gotta get the waiver SportsCenter. You had no idea what's going on until SportsCenter. They're like they told you.

Aaron

There there there was something about that.

Ian

Anticipation. Like You

Aaron

have no idea until you watch the thing and Yeah. Then everyone knew it once. Right.

Ian

It was the thing.

Aaron

Sim simpler times.

Ian

Alright. So TypeScript kinda fits in. TypeScript, excuse me, React and Livewire here. So, yeah, we're messing around well, yeah, I'll tell you where I will work backwards on that because, like, I've been so I was, you know, playing with React there for a while

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

Considering doing it for the big project we're working on now, which is, basically rebuilding HubSpot, which is our main product. This is gonna be a long term endeavor here, so I'm not exactly sure when it'll be done. We're at the very early stages. But part of it was just figuring out what do we wanna use this for. 1st, it was gonna be Livewire, then, like, Livewire 3 was really delayed.

But so I was like, well, maybe we should look at React. So was looking at React, but then I was really delayed. So then And

Aaron

then Livewire dream was really good.

Ian

3 came out. It was really good. So I was like, well, okay. Like, back to the a plan. We'll do Livewire, which is what I wanted to do to begin with.

So, yeah. So okay. With Livewire but, you know, ultimately, like, the problem is, like, Livewire still doesn't have, like, all the components

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

That the React ecosystem has. Right? And it's, like, not just about, like, the components. Like, Alpine has some components, and then, like, I do own, like, official Alpine components, and I do use those in some spots. But there's just, like, a breadth of components in React that, like, you know, the outbound system's not there.

Yeah. Yeah. So and and it's just like and then all those other layers too. Like, for our products, like, accessibility is important, and keyboard access is gonna be important and things like that. And so, like, it's not just the component that shows the right thing on the screen, but, like, there's all these other layers to it.

And React has, like, 7 different component libraries that all do all of that and have all the big brains working on it all the time and all that stuff. So

Aaron

All that VC money is going straight into free React components. Yeah.

Ian

Exactly. Probably that gravy train is gonna end at some point, but at least they'll be out there. So yeah. So I was like, okay. Well, for most things, I can just use pure Livewire or Livewire with some Alpine.

But there's gonna be a few really key components where, like, I really need a more sophisticated user interface that just nothing exists in the Livewire sphere. So so I was like, is it even possible? Can I put react with Livewire? And, of course, like, I look around. Nobody's done there's nothing about it.

Aaron

Of course not. Nobody's done it.

Ian

A Vue thing that Caleb built, which is like a connector to LiveWire, but it was, like, 3 years ago when he said he's not maintaining that thing anymore. Because I was like, whatever. I'll just use Vue. Even though Vue's components aren't quite as good as React. There's still enough out there of what I needed that it probably would have been fine.

But then he wasn't gonna support that. And I also feel like React's a little bit more, like, inherently from the beginning in its, like, roots is the idea of, like, you could kinda drop in a component into a page without the whole thing being SPA.

Aaron

Interesting. Which I

Ian

think is true of Vue also, but I don't get that vibe from it quite as much. Like like, the official React documentation actually talks all over the place about using React in that way. And that's not a vibe I always get from Vue. And I didn't look at Svelte at all. Maybe I should have, but nah.

Yeah. That's kinda what I figured. So I was like, alright. This seems like it should sort of be possible. Even if it's, like, slightly hacky, as long as it can be not too hacky, I think it should work.

Aaron

This is so chaotic.

Ian

Yeah. So I I got in there, and I was able to do it. It was unbelievable. Like, I tried,

Aaron

like up LiveWire and React?

Ian

I didn't. It wasn't even that crazy. Because LiveWire 3 also has this nice concept where, like, you can have the nested components, and it can be modelable so that, like, the value of one component can be fed as a model to the parent component. So I just have this component that's modelable to the parent, and I'm able to, from React, to just send the LiveWire event. Like, on the, is it an event?

Yeah. I think no. It's not even an event. It's like Livewire dot, you know, you find the Livewire component by its ID, and then you can just, like, set the value on it. And then Livewire internally, like, does whatever to Okay.

Send it back

Aaron

to the server or whatever. I followed none of that. So let's talk give me give me give me, concrete examples. Okay. So what where does Livewire handle, and what's the component in React and

Ian

that stuff? So basically, you have the Livewire component, you know, plops some HTML on the page. K. And in that HTML, I have wire ignore so that LiveWire doesn't mess with that HTML after it's originally rendered. And then So are

Aaron

you using LiveWire to render out, like, a full page or a section or

Ian

Yeah. So I mean, the the app itself will have, like, it's a full page Livewire component.

Aaron

Okay.

Ian

And then within that is going to be other Livewire components Mhmm. That are different parts of the page. And so right now in in getting this set up, I just have it in a pretty simple just like another component that's dumping that's calling this, combo box component.

Aaron

Got it. Okay.

Ian

Putting it on the page. And so it's gonna be like a drop down with searching and some other kind of fancy

Aaron

combo boxes react.

Ian

Right. So so what happens is the you know, we put a div out there, wire ignore, on the div then so all LiveWire is doing is putting this, initially, all LiveWire is doing is putting this div. The render aspect of LiveWire is this div.

Aaron

Got it.

Ian

The div is wire ignored, and it's got data element on it. So like data value, data options, data placeholder, whatever HTML data attributes. Okay. Those are filled in, you know, from LiveWire also, like, the text is just being passed through of, like, the placeholder value and then things like the value, whatever the actual value of it that is, like the number 7 or whatever. Fine.

That's there.

Aaron

Good number. Great number.

Ian

And a list of options is whatever options should be in the drop down in this case. Okay. So and that's just JSON encoded options array, key value. So

Aaron

So you're able to get all that good stuff from your database. Right. And plop it into the page because that's LiveWire's responsibility. Yeah. And so now you've got all of your nice app logic defined drop down data plopped onto the page.

Yep. And then React wakes up?

Ian

And then React wakes up. So then you have, a listener for 1 of the LiveWire, like, LiveWire, navigated event. Mhmm. Like, when it, like, well, the this is a little area I still have a a problem with, but basically yeah. So whether LiveWire in it or LiveWire navigated, and then that's where then I just kick in React.

And I say, okay, React. Like, create a root node, and this is the node. Is this div. And then I I pass into it, via prop just the wire ID of the LiveWire component. So then that knowledge is inside the React code that it's like, okay.

This is LiveWire ID 1234. And then React boots itself up and whatever. It creates everything. You get a drop down. I just, like, take the data attributes just normal,

Aaron

you

Ian

know, style for that, grab that information out, populate the React component in the way the React component wants. Do that and boots up. And then when you you have a handler in React so, like, when on the change of the state, there's a handler function. And so that'll receive the new value. That's just part of the React component.

And then from there, in that handler, all I'm doing is calling the globally available LiveWire. You know, LiveWire. So it's like the top level window dot LiveWire. Mhmm. So window dot LiveWire dot find, I think it is.

I don't know. Remember the exact term. But you search by the wire ID. You get the LiveWire component by its wire ID. And then you can just set values on it it, which is what I do.

And once I call that to set the value, it will then do all the synchronization it needs to pass that back into LiveWire itself and maintain that, value. So that's working.

Aaron

So so so so you pass the initial value down, plop it on the page that comes from your back end, presumably.

Ian

Right. Mhmm.

Aaron

And then a combo box is rendered. And then from then on, the combo box is responsible for maintaining its own state because it's been wire ignored. So it's no longer in the in the Livewire updating life cycle.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

And the combo box emits events out that you catch and you send to LiveWire back end. So, like, you do the global thing and say, like, set this value

Ian

in front end. Directly setting it. The way I have it, it's actually, like yeah. It's it's directly setting it in the I've created, like, a wrapper for the the React component, my own component. And inside the logic for that, it's calling LiveWire directly.

Aaron

And so then this event this value everywhere, but that 8 doesn't come back into the combo box. The the combo box is internally maintaining its 8 value.

Ian

Yeah. Mhmm.

Aaron

And so where does the 8 go? That goes to the back end to update a row or something or update other components on the page?

Ian

Actually, initially, it's just gonna be internally LiveWire's internal state will just be that this component is

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

Value component dot value, let's say, is equal to 8. And then when you click save, you know, it'll you know, if you have a save function on the LiveWire component, then that's when it's gonna send that value actually back to the server.

Aaron

Got it. Okay.

Ian

And then you save it. You can do like, Livewire has a capability for it to be more reactive than that, to do, like, the dot live stuff.

Aaron

That,

Ian

I haven't tried to get working yet. I think that will be harder.

Aaron

So this is just a form you're just using it to set a form field that will then be sent as a wrapped up as a payload and sent when it's time.

Ian

Yes. Okay. Wow. That doesn't seem so bad, honestly. It wasn't too bad.

Like, it really was and, like, explaining it on a podcast is a little bit trickier, but, like, doing it in real life was actually not. I was like, oh, this could be, like, days, and I'm gonna have to do all kinds of weird hockey stuff, and it really isn't actually hockey at all. The only, like, real I'm sure there's, like whatever. I just did this, like, yesterday. So it's not I'm sure there's bugs and edge cases and whatever.

I still have to, like, test it a little more hardcore. But one thing I have had a problem with, is the LiveWire 3 SPA mode where you can have, like, wire navigate so that it is rerendering the page without rerendering having the browser fully reload the page. So it's instantaneous basically because it's just swapping out all the body HTML, but not rebooting up JavaScript and CSS and all that. So that I haven't got to fully work yet. I I kinda think there's actually a bug in Livewire because some stuff doesn't seem to even be available even outside even forgetting react.

Like, there's just stuff that's not rebooted. Like, the global Livewire searching stuff seems to be a little wonky, but it it could be used to. But, so I don't know. I do I did post a thing on GitHub there to see if anybody had any ideas for that. But for now, I mean, that's not a huge deal.

I kinda figured that'll, whatever, work out over time. I'll get that figured out. But, do wanna get that figured out because I do really dig the SBA mode, because it is actually very noticeably faster. So that'll be really cool. But, but yeah.

So for in terms of a initial attempt, it's been quite successful so far in the initial attempt to my surprise, and it seems quite reliable. It boots up and does all the stuff it needs to do. And

Aaron

Yeah. This is this is interesting. I know that there used to be, and there might still be, docs on using, like, using either Alpine or Livewire with with 3rd party JavaScript libraries, but it's always been around, like, you know, file pickers or other, like, kinda like select 2, I think, was one for a long time.

Ian

Very even stuff.

Aaron

Yeah. And so this concept, I guess, is not that crazy. I kinda thought when you first tweeted it, I was like, oh, man. Ian's lost his mind. We're gonna put him in a home.

This is wild. But, yeah, I guess this makes sense. If your interface with React is receive an emitted event, tell Livewire about it. And I think at some point, you could probably pass down a value into React and, you know, wire it out both ways.

Ian

Yeah. I think so.

Aaron

But, yeah, this

Ian

is just seems really reasonable. I almost think I could get rid of that wire ignore. I've been playing with that. Can I get rid of that wire ignore? And just if LiveWire wants to re instantiate this its component, that then the React component just reinstantiates.

Aaron

And I think interesting.

Ian

I think it should be possible. When I've tried to just remove wire ignore, ignore, like, it didn't work. So there's some there's something in there that I have to figure out, but I actually think that should be possible really. So that is kind of my goal. Think that'll help the SPA mode stuff too, I'm guessing.

But Yeah. So I would prefer to not ignore it. I know, like, they don't love when people ignore thing things because it is, like, a sort of a weird special case. But

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

So and since this is very, you know, a lot of times people are using this, yeah, where it's like some totally outside thing. Like, yeah, it's a third party live loaded from some other SaaS app Yeah. File uploader, and, like, there's no control. It just has to be its own total special flower. You know, this isn't really that.

This is like when the LiveWire component reloads, I actually want this thing to reload. Like, I want it to be 1 to 1. I want it to be just part of the LiveWire component. Right? So I think in theory that that should all be fine that whenever LiveWire thinks it needs to reload the component, it just all rekicks up.

Just have to find the right like, there's something off with, like, the events of that LiveWire kicks out. And I don't know. I'm not saying it's even LiveWire's fault. It might just be my fault. I haven't found the right combination of things to listen for for when that's occurring.

There's a few that I think should work but aren't. That's kinda what my question was partially around. But, so, anyway, I'll I'll get there on that. But, yeah, I actually think this is totally doable. I think that's too bad there's not more out there.

I mean, I don't know. I'm not one to usually write a lot of, like, blog posts on Google. Gonna say,

Aaron

you can be content guy. This is

Ian

pretty good. Wanna write something if I actually get this fully figured out because, like, there is nothing out there about it. And it's like, I actually I mean, I have a sort of bigger vision that I actually wanna talk to them about a little bit that I feel like they should even embrace that. Like, Livewire should embrace this and be like, listen. Like, it's hard for

Aaron

us to

Ian

be like, the all these people building component like, tailwinds coming out with components. Right? Like, everybody all really high end orgs are building all these really good components. And, like, you're not gonna out component them. Right?

Like, it's best you're just gonna make a component that's equal with a super ton of very complicated work

Aaron

Right.

Ian

And all really annoying work. Like, the browser does this weird thing that's got this crazy bug in this version. And to make this thing appear on the screen in the right spot, we're gonna have to do all this extra like, that is not fun work. Right?

Aaron

No. It's all, like, terrible work.

Ian

So, like, just build on those things. We still need all live wire goodness on the backside. And then obviously, a lot of times on the front side, it's enough. But for those special cases where, like, you need a calendar or you need a crazy combo box pick

Aaron

up

Ian

thing that's elaborate. Like, yeah, don't rebuild all that stuff. Just, like, let somebody drop in a React component and be done with it. And it's you know, make it super easy to do that. So

Aaron

Yeah. That is interesting. That is a way to, like, bootstrap yourself into thousands of components overnight.

Ian

Yeah. Exactly. And you still you know? And it still eliminates all that horribleness of, like, if you wanted to just do that. If instead you go pure react and now you have to deal with all the back end stuff, you can't leverage all the goodies Livewire gives you, you know, generally.

Totally. And so and even inertia, as we talked about before, it's, like, good, but it has a few kinda quirks and stuff. Like, I still greatly prefer Livewire to it. So yeah. Like, you could just be in LiveWire land, which is so great.

But then, yeah, when you need something super JavaScripty and complicated, just, like, make it really easy to drop in that React component or Vue component or whatever. Like, have connectors for the big, libraries.

Aaron

Yeah. That's really interesting. I wonder what a first party react or view shim to Livewire would look like. Yeah. Like, rap rapping almost rapping, like, the React node that you have in something like some some LiveWire blade component.

Ian

Yeah. Some I I really don't think it'd be hard. I don't know. I I may be simplifying it too much, but I feel like since I just did it, I feel like it made me realize that this is possible. Like, even if what mine isn't perfect.

Right? And I'm definitely not the person for, like, figure out the best API for other people to use or whatever, but I think it's possible.

Aaron

That's really interesting. I bet I bet Caleb could come up with something clever.

Ian

I know. He's a genius. That's the thing. We gotta get the genius minds on it.

Aaron

Alright. Alright, Caleb. Do that.

Ian

Yeah. Caleb, we need this, man. So, yeah. So then offshoot of that is when I was first in React, I was like, why everybody use TypeScript? I use TypeScript blah blah blah.

And then for this, I was like, I'm not using TypeScript because nothing else in here is gonna use TypeScript. So why am I gonna use TypeScript for this? And it's just so much better. Like, everything's so much cleaner. There's not always like fake types I'm building everywhere for, like, to pass 2 props in.

Like, I have a type, and it's in the thing. Yeah. TypeScripts

Aaron

are worse than It's theater. Terrible. Theater. You're just like yes. So I'm gonna back up to React for a second.

Mhmm. My now having used React as as a as a, you know, React expert. Yeah. Yes. I think so I've had a I've had a visceral distaste for React for a long time.

Right? Yep. I think now having used it, I feel the same way. But I think I I have, like, a more pointed or or, like, a clarified or refined opinion on why I don't like it.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

And I think I I think what I've come to is I feel like the abstractions of React are at the wrong level For me. And so, like, not not not JSX. JSX, I I don't like because it looks ugly. Like, I I just don't like seeing all those curly braces and array maps, like, inside of the HTML. I I much prefer views like, I'll just throw a little sugar on here, v 4, and, you know, it still looks like HTML.

I prefer that. However, JSX aside Yep. React itself, I feel like, is asking of me things that I shouldn't be concerned with. It is, in my opinion, too low level. Yeah.

Because I don't so for example, I'm, you know, I'm doing this remotion stuff, and I'm copying and paste in, like, a madman off of the Internet. Right? Yep. And I'm seeing stuff like use memo, use callback

Ian

Right.

Aaron

Use state. And I'm like, I don't I'm not the computer. You should worry about

Ian

this. You figure out how

Aaron

it's going to work. I shouldn't I shouldn't be telling you what the dependent sees are that you need to track to keep this thing up to date. You're a computer.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

You should know what the dependencies are. And so, like, with Vue, I just say, like, hey. This is a piece of data. Make it reactive or whatever you wanna do. I'm just gonna muck with it, and you gotta figure out what to do.

And Vue's like, yes, sir. Thank you, sir.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

But Yeah. React, it's like, You didn't yeah. You messed up. You didn't tell me

Ian

You stayed. There's

Aaron

supposed to dependency. So it's either an infinite loop or never updating, but I'm not gonna tell you which. And I'm just like, this this seems to me this seems to me a very, like, engineered library. And what I want is, like, a library that's usable. Like, I don't wanna I don't wanna be at this level.

This is the wrong level for me to

Ian

be at.

Aaron

I need to be up one level where it's much more usable, and if I need to drop down to a level below, I can.

Ian

But I don't wanna be Right.

Aaron

I don't wanna be effing around with, like, memoization and passing dependencies in and this whole, like, state set state and use state. I'm, like, like, just Right. I wanna just add 1 to the variable, and it shows up on the on the page. Is that too hard? So I've refined my hatred.

The hatred is, you know

Ian

It's still there.

Aaron

It hasn't changed. But I've refined my point of view on it, and it's just like,

Ian

I just don't like it. Well, you know what's interesting about that is actually now having approached it the 2 different ways from, like, okay, React's the full front of the app, kinda learning it that way. And I was peep even use learning it in quotes here. Like, I was going through. I took a course.

I copy pasted some stuff. I'm definitely no expert in how any of it works, and I've already forgotten half of it. Right? But still that basic impression and then recently this past week of, like, just using it for a component, which is, like, how it was originally constructed. That was its original what it was originally designed for.

And I feel like using it that way actually is so much nicer. Like, it's like, oh, yeah. Like, this is its self contained component, and it might have some, like, sub components that help it build parts or whatever.

Aaron

Mhmm.

Ian

Basically, it's this self contained component. And there's a lot less of those things that are needed. Like, you might still need use state or whatever. But, like, when you're using it for the full app and you have things talking to each and then all kinds of stuff going on, like, there is just a way more of, like, you have to have all these effects and this and the other thing. And, like Oh my gosh.

What does that even mean? It is a fact. Yeah. A lot. But when it's just itself, like, even those things, even just having to think through it, I'm like, okay.

Just I'm only worried about this in the context of itself, like, actually make more sense and are cleaner in some ways to me. And it's probably the way you're supposed think about the whole thing. Whatever. Who knows? I don't I'm definitely no expert in architecting full React apps.

But it did, like, all flow much nicer for me, just worrying about this as this one component inside this one page, and it's not worried about networking. It's not worried about all that stuff. State. Yeah. No global state or anything like that.

And it was, like, much nicer. So I do think that was kind of an interesting revelation I had on the React front in that way. But, yeah, I don't know. To me, building an entire app of JavaScript just I just don't like the idea of it in general. It doesn't matter, like, what framework.

They're all kind of bad. Like, that's the beauty of, like, LiveWire. So you don't you're getting that without, like, actually having to do all that JavaScript. Or for most apps, you know, I think just blade is fine for so many things. Braid with a sprinkle of LiveWire, or a sprinkle of components for, like, the really things that truly need to be very, you know, have the right motion and things in the browser and stuff like that.

You need to do certain dynamic things. Fine. But, like, obviously, still, like, 90% of your app, even in a very dynamic app, is, like, just stuff sitting there. It's like the navigation bar and a side navigation bar. Like, what you know, it's a bunch of stuff doing nothing.

So it's, like, doing that stuff in React is kind of annoying. So yeah. So I I like this hybrid hybrid model.

Aaron

Yeah. I I like the concept of components being, like, walled gardens, and you emit the only portion that matters to the outside world. I've always found that to be comforting. I like that in I like that in Vue. I like that in any component system.

Like, hey. Let me worry about the internal nastiness, and I'll just give you a value back.

Ian

That's all you need to care about. Box kind

Aaron

of thing.

Ian

Just like I pass in some stuff. You pass back some stuff. Yes. It's all good. I don't wanna worry about what's inside there.

Aaron

Yeah. Exactly. So I I do like that. But, yeah, I just feel like React is frankly, React is asking too much of me. I think that's my opinion.

Right. Like, it's asking me to do things that I shouldn't have to do. And I know people are gonna be like, oh, it's a skill issue. You just gotta learn it. And I'm like, yeah.

Like, I don't disagree. Yeah. Maybe maybe it is a skill issue. Right. Yeah.

I could learn it, but I think the point is we don't we we shouldn't need to learn it, I think, is is my opinion. Like, just do it for me.

Ian

Oh, this is the other part that I think is really I like this approach is, like, the amount to learn to implement one component that does something really cool and special versus the value you get from that one component as well as the alternatives to doing it that way. Like, that is a good sort of cost benefit ratio. Like, yes. Maybe there's, like, some annoying. You gotta figure out use state and a couple other things, whatever.

But I'm getting a super awesome component that does this thing that I could I literally couldn't do myself ever, or I'd have to use some lesser version of. Right? So that part to me is, like, the benefit cost benefit there is great. The when you get into, like, building the whole front end, like, now I think the cost benefit is off because it gets, like, so complicated. And, again, like, I'm sure if you initially learned React instead of PHP, maybe that's a whole different thing.

Right? But for me, the, like, trade offs there are are too much. But for this, the trade offs are good. It's like, okay. I could spend a little bit time.

I could get this thing I could never do otherwise, at this kind of level. And then, yeah, that's that's great. It's mostly a black box, on the React side of it. And, yeah, it's like a couple lines of code. No problem.

So, yeah, that's sort of been interesting. We'll see how it goes. I might be back on here in a week or two being like, the whole thing fell apart. It's all terrible. But we'll see.

Aaron

I'll be back in here in a week or 2 saying React still is not my favorite.

Ian

So Well, you love it. I woke up. Happy. Yeah. You had an epiphany.

Aaron

You were like

Ian

Yeah. Yeah. Or well, this will be this will be hopefully, we don't align in this way. We'll be back on here in a year, and I'll be like this freaking react component. It's like bug city.

It's total nightmare. I'm getting all these bug reports and issues, and, this thing's killing me. And then I'll be joining you in the full anti react camp potentially. But

Aaron

Yeah. I just don't gosh. I just don't see myself changing. You know, I don't yeah. I'm I'm pretty internally consistent on most things, and this, I feel like, is gonna be another one where that's the case.

But we'll see. We'll see.

Ian

Speaking of consistency

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

My understanding is you got a new order of socks

Aaron

Got a a new order of socks.

Ian

Are the same socks you previously ordered and that you are consistent in your sock ordering. And I am a sock man. I'm very particular about socks. So I'm interested to hear your sock take.

Aaron

Are you familiar with the concept of maximizers versus satisficers? Do you know what this means?

Ian

Vaguely familiar, but maybe you should write it down for me.

Aaron

So there's this concept of, like, there there's these 2 types of people. 1 is a maximizer, and the other is this weird word called a satisficer. Mhmm. And so the maximizer is constantly exploring the universe of options, whatever realm or domain that may be. The maximizer is exploring this universe of options looking for the thing to maximize his or her utility, you know, in the economic sense, happiness, use, whatever.

Yeah. The satisficer, explores the universe of possibilities until they find the thing that is over a certain line that satisfies their needs. And at that point they stop looking, because they have now satisfied their needs. I am through and through a satisficer. Okay.

100% satisficer. Nice. I order the exact same thing at a restaurant because I know that I like that thing, and it satisfies me, and I'm very, very happy about it. I have friends that are like, oh, don't you wanna don't you wanna see if there's anything better? You might like more.

And I'm like, why? On a relative scale on a relative scale, I'm 10 out of 10 happy.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

It it may be that on an absolute On on an absolute scale, maybe I'm 6 out of 10 happy, but I don't know that. I'm 10 out of 10. I feel like I'm hitting the moon.

Ian

It's all relative.

Aaron

It's all relative

Ian

Yeah.

Aaron

Socks. I found the perfect pair of socks, like, maybe 10, 12 years ago.

Ian

Wow. Okay. I didn't realize it was that long ago.

Aaron

Yes. Knock on wood. Thank you to the lord. These socks are still available.

Ian

That's amazing right there.

Aaron

Yeah. So many years later. So my strategy with socks is here's the deal. Socks wear out. Like, that's a fact.

What I what I don't ever want to do is I don't ever want to think, oh, this one sock wore out. I'm gonna throw away both of them. And I also don't wanna think, oh, this one sock wore out. I gotta keep it because, like, this is my favorite pair of socks. I don't ever want to, pair socks when they come out of the washer or Right.

The dryer. Never wanna pair socks. Don't ever want my sock drawer to need to be managed or maintained. I got enough I got enough stuff going on in my life. Mhmm.

Mhmm. And so the answer to all of those sock universe questions is you find a pair of socks that you like, and this is for, athletic, like normal shoes, like dress

Ian

socks have different pieces.

Aaron

But for normal day to day shoes, you find a pair of socks that you like, and you buy as many of those socks as you can, and you dump them in a drawer. And then what that means universal

Ian

body now.

Aaron

Anytime a sock feels a little thin, anytime a little toe guy gets a little cold, it's over.

Ian

Oh, man.

Aaron

You've done you've done

Ian

your duty.

Aaron

Thank you for your service. Alright. Enjoy the trash can. And what at that point, it's like, it doesn't matter because I got 40 friends in the sock drawer that match it perfectly. It's a perfect match.

Oh. And so happens is what happens is you do this enough that you start to reach a point in, like, your your household laundry cycle where at the end end of, like, right before a wash happens, you're down to, like, you're down to, like, 3 or 4 socks. Right. Oh, we gotta do a wash. I'm getting close.

That's when you know it's time to re up. Like, you If you're

Ian

if you're running things on socks. Yeah. You

Aaron

gotta call in the reinforcements. Yeah. And then that way that way, you don't have to worry about the wash cycle at all. Ian, I change socks

Ian

I got a lot

Aaron

of sweaty. Times a day. Like, yes. I change I change socks. Yeah.

Every so every I'll I'll shout I'll shower in the middle of the day, but, like, I'll wake up You're

Ian

one of those guys.

Aaron

Fresh pair of socks.

Ian

Yeah. Fresh pair of socks in the middle of the day.

Aaron

I'll shower or fresh pair of socks in the morning. I'll go shower. Fresh pair of socks. For sure. There's no way I'm getting out of the shower in the middle of the day and putting on a pair of socks that I wore for 2 or 3 hours.

Ian

Did you shower in the morning or not shower in the morning? Okay. No.

Aaron

So your midday shower is the shower. Start the day. Yeah. Wake up, start the day, and then shower around, you know, 12:1:2. Fresh pair of socks for sure.

Ian

But I mean, yeah. Post shower, like,

Aaron

you have to Post shower is crazy behavior. So already, I'm wearing 4 socks in a day. Yeah. And sometimes, like, sometimes I'll change clothes to, like, go out on a date with Jennifer or something. I'm I'm fresh air socks.

Yeah. You can. Obviously, if I'm changing that. So that's 6 that's 6 socks in a day. And so I gotta have I gotta have a deep bench because I'm blowing through it.

There's nothing better than putting on clean socks.

Ian

Oh, man. Well, okay. I'm with you on the socks. I like the strategy. We do tend to kinda match because here's my problem.

I've never found the perfect socks. I I can't find them. And so, like, so I first of all, I couldn't even believe how cheap these socks were. I was like, alright. I gotta buy these socks.

I wanna buy socks. It's, like, tens 10 pairs for, like, $13 or something ridiculous.

Aaron

That's crazy.

Ian

They are the very low socks, which I

Aaron

tend to

Ian

find they always ride under, which is I do want those type, but that I never they never performed for me, so I'm hoping these ones perform.

Aaron

Here you go. Here's the deal with these. Here's the deal why why we like these. I think they're like matte and zirconia. It's like some totally off brand Amazon.

Ian

Random thing.

Aaron

They've got the rubber grippies on the back of the heel. Okay.

Ian

So is that that works? You think

Aaron

that works it up? They work. And once once they start to fail once they start to fail, you salute them and you throw them in the trash can. So, like, once the rubber grippy start to kinda wear out, which which they can Yeah. And then and, you know, the sock the sock expands a little bit because of There they go.

The natural fibers of cotton, it's game over.

Ian

Now do you say goodbye to your experienced soldiers when the new batch comes in, or do you let some of those guys continue to live on?

Aaron

Nope. It's all Okay.

Ian

What what

Aaron

do you call it? Matriculation? It's all when 1 by 1. 1 by 1 as Okay.

Ian

So you don't just clear out the last 7 or 8 you got around. Like, they stay There's

Aaron

got veterans in there that are

Ian

performing, For

Aaron

sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian

The guy at the bottom who's hiding out, maybe he's just scared. He's hiding at the bottom. You haven't seen him in years.

Aaron

Exactly. And I'm like, I'll I'll, like, find a sock and be be like, that's great. I got a new sock. I'll lose a sock and think, I don't care. I don't I don't need that sock.

Ian

Now I jumped the gun and I ordered these.

Aaron

K.

Ian

And I've already made a huge mistake because I should have waited for the discussion because I got the black, white, and gray Oh. Instead of just a single color. Yeah. I can't even implement this strategy.

Aaron

Implement the system.

Ian

No. But if I like $13, so if I like them,

Aaron

I'll just buy more of whatever. You can re

Ian

Are you a gray man, I assume? Gray man. Going down the middle here?

Aaron

Right down the middle. Yep. Black black, I feel like black can look weird with certain shoes if they peek out over the top. White gets dirty too easily. Like, it shows its age too easily.

Gray, right down the middle. Yep. No muss, no fuss.

Ian

Take on, you have a nice pair of leather shoes, but they're not, like, they're not for suits. Right? They're just like you have a pair of pants, and they're, like, nice leather shoes. Are you going dress sock with that? Are you going these gray socks?

Like, what do you do there?

Aaron

You know, it depends it depends on the weather, and it depends on the pant. If I'm wearing if I'm wearing so I have I do have, like, a nice pair of leather sneakers. Right? So they're like they're like middle of the road.

Ian

They're up.

Aaron

Yeah. It's like you could wear it to church with jeans, basically. Right.

Ian

Okay.

Aaron

So if I'm for example, if I wear it to church with jeans, I will probably put on a tall blue dress sock to,

Ian

you know,

Aaron

make the bridge from the jean to the pant. Alright. If if I'm going out to, like, let's say, I'm going out to dinner or something or we're going out for Sunday afternoon, you know, on the town, which never happens, but can see everywhere. You can imagine. You can imagine.

We're we live on the East Coast, and we're going out for a drink at, you know, 2 o'clock. Yeah. You could imagine I'm wearing a chino. Right? I'm wearing, like, a I'm wearing a knot jean.

I'm wearing maybe a, you know, a a dark blue or or dark khaki chino. I may I may give the the pants a little break, roll it up just like a just a half roll, and at that point, I'll

Ian

show a little bit show a little bit ankle. You know? Alright. Show the show

Aaron

the people what they're looking for, which is a little bit of ankle. In that case, I would wear the no show, grippy socks that are hidden below the leather shoe. But what I would never do what I would never do is have no show, in quote, socks that actually show above the shoe.

Ian

Yes. Which I feel like is often the case.

Aaron

Yeah. You don't want that. It's a bad it's a bad deal. So then you see the the leather shoe, some sort of athletic sock,

Ian

then a then a piece

Aaron

of leg, which nobody wants to see, and then and then a pant. And that's just, like, either either you're wearing socks that I cannot see or you're wearing socks that are supposed to be seen and form a bridge between the pant and the shoe.

Ian

Okay. Alright. I think that that's pretty much where I fall on that scale, I think. And I do find the no shows I guess, is where my thing is. The no show socks I've ever had either are not actually no show Mhmm.

Or if they are no show, they they're, like, under my heel instantly. And then, like, that's annoying and uncomfortable, and I'm that's I'm very upset by that. So I'm very excited about these. Hopefully, they will be both no show as well as stay behind my heel, and then we will be in bliss here. So that's gonna be very exciting.

Aaron

I'm excited you just bought them just on the tweet. I'm way. I'm excited. I'm excited to hear your reports back. This will be a good follow-up.

Ian

Bonobos or whatever. It's, like, $13 for a pair or whatever.

Aaron

So These these people, I'm sorry. If you're one of these people listening, I'm sorry. If you're if you're buying artisan socks from some sort of direct to consumer thing, you've been hoodwinked. Right. It's just it's a simple

Ian

cloth you wear on your feet. Right? Like, that's right.

Aaron

You you got bamboozled. You bought into the hype cycle, which hoomanigans haven't bought into any Exactly. A hype cycle. But It's not

Ian

too late for them. The hype still make it.

Aaron

It's over. The sock game thing is, like, we're past that. So sorry to you.

Ian

And so you take your sock savings, and you put that money into an au pair is my understanding.

Aaron

That that is correct. You wouldn't you wouldn't believe how much I'm saving on socks. Yeah. I I don't wanna oversell it, but it's yeah. It's definitely enough to pay for a full time au pair, and she's here.

She's she's made it. She arrived. So she, she got here, like, a week and a few days ago. Mhmm. Amazing.

Just Oh,

Ian

that's so good.

Aaron

Amazing. Huge.

Ian

You're very happy. Everything's good. I know you never know. They're living

Aaron

in your

Ian

powers, the whole thing.

Aaron

Goodness gracious. You never know. Amazing. So she's, you know, 24, 25 from Germany, and just like a professional. So one of the things that has totally stood out to us is, you know, we write all these documents up.

The agency is like, you gotta write, you know, your household documents and how you, like, discipline the kids and things you do and don't do, and you kind of, like I don't know. I kind of expected, like, we'll write these documents and nobody's ever gonna read them.

Ian

Right.

Aaron

She super duper read them and, like Oh. You can tell that she, like, read them and internalized them Right.

Ian

Because the way that she, like studied it.

Aaron

Yes. The way that she talks to kids are like, oh, wait. That is, like, that's

Ian

what we said.

Aaron

Yeah. That's what we said you

Ian

should do.

Aaron

And she'll listen to how we parent and, like, mirrors that. You know, I don't know what her parenting preferences are because they haven't been expressed. She's just mirroring us, and it's like Yeah. Wow. This is really incredible.

Ian

That is so good.

Aaron

And she's just delightful. Like, she's just really easy to be around. It's weird. Like, we have a roommate. When was the last time you had a new roommate?

Yeah. How many decades has it been since you've had a roommate?

Ian

Well, I mean, so I yeah. I don't know. See, I grew up so one of my big drivers in life, we're gonna get deep into Ian's psychology here, is that I had a very good childhood. My parents are great. Whatever.

Not divorced, loving family, the whole thing. But we did actually have a lot of people live in my house. So it had, like, extended family. I had aunts and uncles and different people in and out who needed a place. You know?

It's like the seventies. It's the eighties. Whatever. There was just that's there was a kind of this family compound at different times. So that was always, like, a thing as a kid that wasn't my favorite because it's like even though, like, the individual people were all great.

Like, love them all. Right? But it's like, when you're a kid, you're like, oh, I'm like sharing a room with my brother my whole life. And, like, people in every room all the time in, like, a not not a house like I live in now, like, a very, very modest house. Right?

So it's like, okay. Like, that's always been this this is part of my subconscious. Like, have your own business, make more money, like, all those type of things. And so roommate is like so on the one hand, like, having roommates or anything like that is something that, like, like, even, like, I don't wanna share a hotel room.

Aaron

I'm not

Ian

sharing a hotel room. Like, hotel room is my room.

Aaron

Yes.

Ian

But then it's also funny because me and my wife have been together since I was 17 and she was 15. Wow. So I have always had a roommate. So I went right from my brother to my wife, and I've always literally had somebody in my room. I've never had a room of my own in my whole life except for when I go to a hotel.

The only time in my life I have my own my own room. So This is

Aaron

why you're so adamant about the

Ian

hotel thing. Exactly. That's my little space for one night. But yes. So having a just an actual not even a family member, an actual stranger in your house, that is very interesting.

And

Aaron

Bizarre. Right?

Ian

It's it's good to hear. It sounds like it's going well.

Aaron

Great. Yes. Yeah. Extremely well. The the kids we have 2 kids.

The girl is having a little bit of a harder time adjusting, to someone else, you know, helping. Yeah. But she's she's getting there.

Ian

Yeah. I shouldn't get there.

Aaron

That was part of the reason we had our au pair come so early because, you know, the new children haven't arrived yet. Right. Because we wanted to spread out some of the traumatic changes, you know, for for the current kids because it's gonna be a huge change when there are 2 new children in the house, and we wanna, like Yep. Make that as easy as possible on Yeah. Current children.

So that has you know, we we planned on that, and that's why she's here, you know, a month and a half early.

Ian

Yeah. That's a great idea.

Aaron

It's been it's been really, really great.

Ian

It must be such a huge just just having those breaks in the day, like, just

Aaron

Yeah.

Ian

Someone else's home.

Aaron

Another, like, another set of hands. Like, we'll come out. Jennifer and I will come out from putting the kids down, and we'll come out at, like, 7 o'clock. And that's when, like, her day the au pair's day ends at 7 o'clock. So we'll come out, and it's, like, all the kids corner like, all the books are put away.

All the crayons are put back in their container. The the table where they just, like, finish throwing food is all clean, and I come out. And that's historically, I would come out from putting the kids down, put in a podcast, and I would do all of that stuff. I'm cleaning the table and sweeping the floor and putting the books away and putting the crayons away. And I come out, and everything's done, and I'm, like, oh my gosh.

7 o'clock.

Ian

That is magic, man.

Aaron

I got the whole I got the whole night for me. What am I gonna do?

Ian

So Let me tell you. You need to enjoy that too because, I mean, you have the twins coming, which is gonna mess that up a little bit for you. But, man, when they get just a little bit bigger and they start going to bed later, them the kids go into bed later, it really I know. Hard. It really blows up.

Style. Yeah. Oh my god. Now we're to the point where, like, my wife is asleep before any of the 3 kids. All 3 kids are up later, and it's just 24 hour a day operation.

There's just always people up making messes, doing stuff, making loud noises. Things are breaking. Like, there's just always stuff going on 24 hours a night, and you're like, oh, man. Like, it was so hard when they were little, but that part where, like, they went to bed at 6:30. Like, that part was pretty cool.

Like, that we would Yeah.

Aaron

We're we're cruising out of their room.

Ian

Or whatever. 7 o'clock. Right. Exactly.

Aaron

Done. And then hours sleep through the night and have, you know, for years. And it's like We might as

Ian

if we did that. But

Aaron

Yeah. People are people are always like, oh, how do you have so much time to do stuff? I'm like, my kids go to bed at 7.

Ian

Man. How do you think?

Aaron

Sleep. So what what else am I supposed to do? I don't

Ian

know what you're doing there. You must be doing that thing where you give them the vodka or something. I I just refuse to

Aaron

believe this. Not what everyone does?

Ian

Oh, vodka in the bottle.

Aaron

Mean the thing?

Ian

That's just parents. They're

Aaron

trying. Yeah.

Ian

So their parents' good. She's living there. Has she has she driven yet?

Aaron

She has.

Ian

How's she driving?

Aaron

Very, very good. Yes.

Ian

K. Nice.

Aaron

From what I understand, Germans are very good drivers, and she continues that long tradition of being a good driver. Very good. And, you know, Jennifer had a a Volkswagen, and so she feels the au pair feels right at home.

Ian

It's a Volkswagen. It's a German made vehicle. No problem.

Aaron

Engineering. And she's like, yeah. I know how to work this thing.

Ian

I did ask her

Aaron

in a in a moment. There have been many moments of ignorance, but I did ask her. I was like, hey. What side of the road do y'all drive on back home? She's like, same side.

It's like, perfect. I'll make that'll make this easy.

Ian

It's so funny how Americans internalize that even though it's, like, literally, like, 4 countries that drive on the other side of the road, but it's like, we're also, like, they drive on the other side of the road everywhere, and then it's like, no.

Aaron

And there's no way I could just look it up, you know, before she arrives. I would say she gets here and be like, hey.

Ian

Have an encyclopedia Britannica. Office.

Aaron

I got a question for you. Yeah. But no. Great driver, very conservative driver, which is good. Great.

She told us the story. She was an au pair with another family in Boston several years ago.

Ian

Oh, wow. She said, yeah,

Aaron

she said that that that family had a nanny, and that nanny was an insane driver. And the nanny kept telling her, she's like, you drive like a grandmother. And I told her, please drive like a grandmother. If you

Ian

have my children in your car, drive like a grandma.

Aaron

I don't care how long it takes you to get there.

Ian

Oh, man. Wow. Yeah. This is great. I'm so excited for you.

This is gonna be such a such a huge help to have that person there. So Yeah. Very exciting. May I when the new babies come, just gonna

Aaron

be huge. I think we I think we we calculated. We're, like, I think at most 4 and a half weeks away. At most. Wow.

4 and a

Ian

half weeks. Thing too with having her come early is so good. Because, like, your wife, she's over it. Right? I'm sure she must be over it.

It's like you're huge. Like, you don't wanna be picking stuff up and,

Aaron

like, getting

Ian

kids up and, like, all that stuff. She's got a break from that stuff.

Aaron

She's got 25 pound babies inside of

Ian

her. They're good size.

Aaron

Yeah. They're they're big. So our current one's delivered at, like, 6 and 6 and a half or something. Mhmm.

Ian

So it seems like on pace for similar.

Aaron

Yeah. So Maybe even a little bigger. Super over it. Yeah. Right.

Like, I

Ian

this is

Aaron

I can't we we can't lift up a 2 and a half year old. I can't lift you up. I got a 1000000 chill children in here. Yep. Yep.

So Oh, man. Oh, yeah. Cool. It's about to change again.

Ian

Yeah. We're excited. Everybody the audience is

Aaron

I know.

Ian

In anticipation of that podcast episode.

Aaron

I know. It's good content. That's why we do it. It's good content.

Ian

See you, like, sleeping. I'll be like, wake up. Wake up. We're doing good stuff.

Aaron

Rough. It's gonna be rough.

Ian

Baby with you. Like, whatever. It's gonna be awesome. That's fine. Yeah.

We're done with it. Alright, man. Well, we we got through it. We went a little long, but we had a lot to cover. I think we we did it.

Alright. Well, I guess we'll we'll wrap it. I actually have more stuff I couldn't even talk about. We're gonna wrap. I'll save it for next week.

But thanks for everybody for, listening. Catch us on mostlytechnical.com, mostlytechpod on Twitter, mostlytechnicalpodcast@gmail.com. Pop a comment in the YouTube videos. Hit us up on Twitter. You guys all know where we are, on there.

And, we'll talk to you next week. Thanks.

Aaron

See you.